PDA

View Full Version : kidd demands that byron scott be fired


Mandyahl
07-10-2003, 03:59 AM
link (http://nypost.com/sports/nets/37617.htm) to new york post article

KIDD TO NETS:
BANISH BYRON
By FRED KERBER
PHOTO POWER PLAY:

July 10, 2003 -- In a bombshell demand to Nets ownership, Jason Kidd has asked the team to fire coach Byron Scott if they hope to keep him from jumping to the Spurs as a free agent, The Post has learned.

The All-Star point guard, according to several league sources, delivered his request during a midtown meeting Tuesday night with his agent, team owners and club president Rod Thorn.

Kidd and Thorn could not be reached for comment yesterday.

One source said that Kidd told Nets ownership his complaint stems from Scott's in-game coaching and that the removal of the second-winningest coach in franchise history is one way to prevent him from going to the San Antonio.

Kidd and Scott, on the surface, seemed to have a good working relationship. They are friendly and have golfed together, but during the season there were rumblings that Kidd disapproved of Scott's in-game decisions. After the Nets were ousted in Game 6 of the Finals by the Spurs in a game where Scott was criticized for his fourth-quarter adjustments, sources said Kidd told Nets brass his son "T.J. could have coached a better quarter."

"Jason expressed concerns, ranging from team personnel, to life after basketball to the current coaching situation," said one of the sources.

"This has been brewing for some time," maintained another source.

Scott, contacted last night, sounded stunned by the development.

"I have no reaction," said Scott, who won three title rings as a Laker player. "It surprises me."

Asked if he sensed any ill feelings or animosity from Kidd in their two years together, Scott quickly said, "No, not at all."

Scott's agent, Brian McInerney, who has been with the coach for 19 years, said last night that he spoke with Kidd's agent, Jeff Schwartz, after learning of the player's demands.

"I talked to Jeff Schwartz frequently and we both believe that whatever is decided should be decided in a professional manner and not in a public debate," McInerney said. "I doubt the validity of this meeting without an official comment from Rod Thorn. These releases harm the franchise, harm the players, harm players' families. Everything should only be released through Rod Thorn."

The Nets took the ultimatum very seriously but likely would not move against Scott until Kidd commits to stay. Team brass is expected to start reviewing possible coaching candidates, such as 2001-02 Coach of the Year Rick Carlisle, Mike Dunleavy, Doug Collins and Mike Fratello.

In addition to his demand on Scott, Kidd also wants an upgrade in talent, so the Nets are seeking to lock up his friend, free-agent center Alonzo Mourning.

Thorn had just returned from Miami, where he met with Mourning and his agent, Jeffrey Wechsler. The Nets feel strongly they can land Mourning for the mid-level exception, roughly $4.8 million, if Kidd stays. Yesterday, the path to Mourning became easier when Heat president and coach Pat Riley said he was not willing to go beyond one year for the center and it would take a "heroic" gesture by Zo to stay in Miami.

The Nets, after the Spurs' whirlwind, two-day courtship of Kidd and his wife, Joumana, in San Antonio, are prepared to make every attempt beyond the six-year, $99.225 million maximum contract to keep him in New Jersey. Kidd presented his side at Tuesday's meeting, the first of several sitdowns planned for this week.

Kidd would receive a management-level position with the Nets after he retires. There were other issues discussed, such as job opportunities in TV for his wife. More than one source maintained that Joumana, while admittedly impressed by the Spurs' presentation, is leaning heavily toward remaining in New Jersey. While the Spurs also can offer TV opportunities, San Antonio and the Riverwalk are not New York and Madison Avenue.

If the Nets fire Scott, Kidd could emerge as a villain. But if the Nets continue winning - they've been to the Finals in Kidd's two seasons - who would care? Scott is 127-119 (.516) in three seasons. He coached the Nets to their two greatest NBA win totals - 52 in 2001-02 and 49 last season, landing in the Finals both times.

The Spurs were pleased with their presentation to the Kidds but they are not getting overly excited, fearing the longer he's home, the stronger the Nets' chances become.

"The purpose of the trip was to provide a feeling for the personality of our organization," said Spurs GM R.C. Buford. As for whether he thinks Kidd will sign with the Spurs, Buford said, "I have no reason to feel one way or the other."

Mourning and Kidd grew very close with the 2000 U.S. Olympic team. Mourning has said he is watching Kidd's decision very closely.

Mourning is being courted by several teams, including Dallas, with reports the Mavs have offered at least three guaranteed years. Some speculate he would prefer to stay in the East, and with the Nets, he would be close to Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center in Manhattan, where he has been treated for the kidney illness that forced him out last season and for all but 13 games in 2000-01. One of his closest friends, former Georgetown roommate Dikembe Mutombo, is already here.

MavKikiNYC
07-10-2003, 07:42 AM
Now THIS is some basketball news.

Great article. Have to say I don't mind seeing Coach BS get a bit of the same shaft that he delivered to Riley all those years ago.

Does Mourning to Jersey make Kidd more likely to stay? Interesting.

Usually Lurkin
07-10-2003, 07:56 AM
sounds like maybe Kidd is feeling guilty about wanting to leave, so is trying to shuffle some blame around.

Makes me really not want him and his wife in Dallas.

MavKikiNYC
07-10-2003, 08:20 AM
Interesting angle.

You have to wonder how much Nellie or Poppovich would trust Kidd not to bite their asses too.

As little respect as I have for Coach BS, this just doesn't seen like a kosher part of contract negotiations.

OutletPass
07-10-2003, 08:40 AM
What's unsaid is that Mourning will probably go with him.

From another angle, why didn't Kidd demand the firing when HIS GUY Eddie Jordan was the heir apparent to BS ?

Bottomline, this was Jason's get out of NJ card from the beginning.


Sick thought: NJ fires Scott and Kidd goes to SA anyway. It's not going to happen that way...but it's funny to consider.

MavKikiNYC
07-10-2003, 08:53 AM
NYTimes only hints at what the Post reported, pointing out that Scott has no assistants hired for the upcoming year, and that the Nets have not addressed a possible contract extension for him pending resolution of free agent signings.

Has it ever happened before that the two top teams in a conference fired their coaches after successful years?

signoftimes
07-10-2003, 10:45 AM
Kidd won't stay even if they fire Scott. He s shifting the blame around. Because if the nets fire scott today, Kidd has other demands that they will have to meet. This is not about Scott, it's about the maturity level of kidd. Also, OP is right, they could have gotten Eddie Joradn or several other coaches that were available early on in the off season, but since Kidd waits until now to tell the Nets he doesn't want to play for scott, there is no coach they can get that will make him happy. Kidd handled this whole thing wrong

Mavs Rule
07-10-2003, 10:59 AM
OP, I believe you are correct, that Jason has a plan, and he is gradually setting up his leave to SA or Dallas. I tend to think Dallas has a shot at both Kidd and Mourning. This is a big game for the big players and Cuban is possibly orchestrating this from behind the scenes.

Did you notice how much Zo was complimenting Cuban on doing what he has to do to win? He is aware of Cuban's plan to get both these players. First Cuban has to swing the Kidd sign and trade, then Zo will sign. All this Kidd dumping on the nets and his heavy interest in the Spurs IS JUST A SETUP to get the Nets to sign and trade with Dallas. If the Nets feel he is gone to the Spurs, they will try to do a sign and trade with Dallas in order to get something rather than nothing.

If you were Kidd, why would you want to play half court sets with the Spurs instead of being a thoroughbred with the running Mavericks. Which style fits into Jason's game better? Nellie is a player's coach and will let Jason have a free reign much of the time he runs the team. Our offense would be out of this world against almost everyone, like the Globetrotter's vs. the Generals. And our D would improve tremendously.

Jason's wife would have a large market to display her television talents to. Mark owns and HDTV network and has probably already told Joumana that she has a job waiting for her in Dallas.

Mark is the man with the plan. Don't give up just yet folks! It could be awesome to be a Mavs fan very soon!

i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

mavsfanforever
07-10-2003, 11:02 AM
Mandyahl, great post. Post of the week probably. Thanks.

It all started during the season between Scott and Kidd.

Hitman
07-10-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
OP, I believe you are correct, that Jason has a plan, and he is gradually setting up his leave to SA or Dallas. I tend to think Dallas has a shot at both Kidd and Mourning. This is a big game for the big players and Cuban is possibly orchestrating this from behind the scenes.

Did you notice how much Zo was complimenting Cuban on doing what he has to do to win? He is aware of Cuban's plan to get both these players. First Cuban has to swing the Kidd sign and trade, then Zo will sign. All this Kidd dumping on the nets and his heavy interest in the Spurs IS JUST A SETUP to get the Nets to sign and trade with Dallas. If the Nets feel he is gone to the Spurs, they will try to do a sign and trade with Dallas in order to get something rather than nothing.

If you were Kidd, why would you want to play half court sets with the Spurs instead of being a thoroughbred with the running Mavericks. Which style fits into Jason's game better? Nellie is a player's coach and will let Jason have a free reign much of the time he runs the team. Our offense would be out of this world against almost everyone, like the Globetrotter's vs. the Generals. And our D would improve tremendously.

Jason's wife would have a large market to display her television talents to. Mark owns and HDTV network and has probably already told Joumana that she has a job waiting for her in Dallas.

Mark is the man with the plan. Don't give up just yet folks! It could be awesome to be a Mavs fan very soon!

i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif


Very good points.

Mavs_Rule2003
07-10-2003, 02:10 PM
This is just pathetic. I know Kidd is a gangsta type player in NBA and he rules in PG position. BUt just how sick his thought is that, he needs to have his coach fired to be on the team!!!

I say this guy is just pathetic. First he needs a BIg man to go with him and now he wants his coach to be fired. Tomorrow he will ask that the team should moved their practice gym to his backyard so that he can shoot FT's from his bed!!

If you are a real deal, play with what you have. I never see Nash is crying for a big man like that. or Dirk asking Nellie to be fired. that is what we call chemistry!

I really hate this kidd guy now. I hope he cant come to dallas. If that means we miss out on ZO too! fair eoungh..spend mid level on malone or PJ.

MFFL
07-10-2003, 04:18 PM
Remember that this article ran in the POST. That paper is rarely fit to wrap fish.

Mandyahl
07-10-2003, 04:31 PM
i agree, it sounds like a bunch or rumors and could very well be a lot of bull.

i just posted it because it presesnted an interesting perspective on what is going on with kidd and new jersey, and this could be important to us, if in fact kidd has demanded that scott be fired.

Evilmav2
07-10-2003, 04:54 PM
If this stuff is true, I think it provides a glimpse at a high stakes gambit that may be going on between Kidd, the Mavs, and Rod Thorn...

Just imagine if we have been pursuing Alonzo Mourning in the hopes of wooing Kidd into cooperating in a sign and trade between the Mavs and Nets. Mourning is currently waiting to declare for the Mavs until he knows whether we can aquire Kidd- but he has assured us that he will if we can get Jason.

Kidd and his agent have probably been trying to prod the Nets into negotiating with Dallas to facilitate a sign and trade, and has been using the threat of leaving the Nets empty-handed by joining the Spurs to facilitate such. Rod Thorn may believe that Kidd is bluffing by threatening to take a lower monetary deal in San Antonio, and thus has refused to talk seriously to the Mavs...

What does Kidd do? It makes perfect sense in this scenario for him to call for the firing of Byron Scott, making it look highly unlikely that he will stay in NJ, and thus turning up the heat on Nets management to get something done with Dallas before they lose Kidd with no compensation...

What is the hopeful end result of this? Kidd forces NJ to talk seriously to Dallas, we execute a sign and trade of Nick and Evan to aquire 1st team all-NBA Kidd at a max contract, and then sign Mourning to a four year deal on July 16th...

And all of a sudden the Lakers don't look so frightening any more...

Mandyahl
07-10-2003, 04:57 PM
if that happened....well, i don't know what i would do. but i would be very happy. wow! look at this:

nash
kidd
fin
dirk
mourning

with a bench of
bradley
raef
howard
najera
bell
other fas?

that's a damn good team, one that could competitively play small ball, tall ball, and everything in between.

u2sarajevo
07-10-2003, 05:02 PM
I agree Evil, Mandy. I am probably thinking this with my mavericks blinders on, but I can't think of any other reason Kidd would say that unless he had alterior motives. If New Jersey calls his "bluff" and fires Scott (I don't think that will happen), won't that be the writing on the wall for the Mavericks. Kidd would have the whip he placed on NJ reversed on him.

Has NJ responded to that statement?

superheadcat
07-10-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2
If this stuff is true, I think it provides a glimpse at a high stakes gambit that may be going on between Kidd, the Mavs, and Rod Thorn...

Just imagine if we have been pursuing Alonzo Mourning in the hopes of wooing Kidd into cooperating in a sign and trade between the Mavs and Nets. Mourning is currently waiting to declare for the Mavs until he knows whether we can aquire Kidd- but he has assured us that he will if we can get Jason.

Kidd and his agent have probably been trying to prod the Nets into negotiating with Dallas to facilitate a sign and trade, and has been using the threat of leaving the Nets empty-handed by joining the Spurs to facilitate such. Rod Thorn may believe that Kidd is bluffing by threatening to take a lower monetary deal in San Antonio, and thus has refused to talk seriously to the Mavs...

What does Kidd do? It makes perfect sense in this scenario for him to call for the firing of Byron Scott, making it look highly unlikely that he will stay in NJ, and thus turning up the heat on Nets management to get something done with Dallas before they lose Kidd with no compensation...

What is the hopeful end result of this? Kidd forces NJ to talk seriously to Dallas, we execute a sign and trade of Nick and Evan to aquire 1st team all-NBA Kidd at a max contract, and then sign Mourning to a four year deal on July 16th...

And all of a sudden the Lakers don't look so frightening any more...

hope u r right. then if we still have the 1.5 mil to use.

Chiwas
07-10-2003, 06:13 PM
Kidd demanding the firing of Scott is not about playing bargain games.

If he asked for it, he is serious on staying with NJ.

IMO.

On the other hand, I see more reasons to not signing Kidd for Dallas. Nellie coudn't coach and control him.

Mandyahl
07-10-2003, 08:30 PM
i think nellie could control kidd. nellie has been in this league for forever and commands more respect than byron scott does.

also, if kidd did come to dallas, it would be by his choice. nellie would probably be part of his decision to come here, so it's not like he would come and then ask for nellie to be fired right off the bat.

i do agree that an argument can be made that kidd is asking for scott to be fired precisely because he does want to stay in new jersey. and argument can also be made that he is doing it because he wants to go to san antonio or that he is doing it in order to demand a sign and trade to dallas.

i don't really see this as a reason for the mavs to not sign kidd. as far as i am concerned, kidd really has done nothing wrong. talking to the nets management about what he thinks about the future of the team is every bit his right, especially as he is the team's superstar. it became a problem when the media got ahold of the rumor, but i don't think that is kidd's fault.

MavKikiNYC
07-11-2003, 07:11 AM
Interesting story. Whole thing sounds very orchestrated. Somebody somewhere is lying out their a$$e$.


as far as i am concerned, kidd really has done nothing wrong. talking to the nets management about what he thinks about the future of the team is every bit his right, especially as he is the team's superstar.

Not to say that it never happens, but it sets a very, very ugly precedent, with huge potential for managerial disruption, to allow players to walk in and demand that a coach be fired.--superstar free agent or no.

While I might happen to agree with Kidd regarding Scott's coaching abilities, I also think that Thorn is too smart to allow himself to be hung out to dry by Kidd, and have both his and any head coach's authority undermined by a player who could easily be gone long after the GM is left to deal with the aftermath.

Nets Deny Kidd Wants Scott Fired
By LIZ ROBBINS


Jason Kidd's future took an unexpected hairpin turn yesterday as he was closer to deciding whether to play for the Nets or the Spurs.

Kidd, his wife, Joumana, and high-ranking Nets officials vehemently denied published reports yesterday that stated Kidd had demanded that Coach Byron Scott be fired as a condition for Kidd to stay.


The Kidds were distraught by the reports and the subsequent news media firestorm, even wondering whether they wanted to live in such a large media market. The uproar has left them even more confused about their decision, which they were expected to make by Monday.

So while Spurs officials were reading the reports, the Nets were scrambling to mollify the Kidds.



"I want to categorically refute the story,'' the Nets' president, Rod Thorn, said in a statement. "At no time, in any conversation that I have had with Jason, has he demanded that Coach Scott be fired. In my over four decades in the N.B.A., I have never encountered a player more cognizant than Jason of the delineation of roles between management, players and coaches. Jason fully understands that management, and not players, decide who will be employed by the team. Jason Kidd has never asked nor demanded that Coach Scott be fired, and to be portrayed otherwise is an injustice to Jason as well as Coach Scott."

In a telephone interview yesterday, Joumana Kidd said: "I'm thinking this is a hard enough decision to make as it is. There's so much going on right now. It sounds like somebody doesn't want Jason to be in New Jersey."

Joumana, who said yesterday was a "waste of a day," added that her husband was very concerned about Scott's feelings. Scott was appearing at a charity golf event in Ontario yesterday, and Joumana said Jason had unsuccessfully tried to reach Scott.

Asked if the controversy might cause the Kidds to want to go to San Antonio, Joumana said: "I would hope not. I can't speak for Jason, but I know it doesn't help if someone's on the fence."

The Nets have never discussed hiring a new coach, according to several people close to the team.

Nets officials, however, including Thorn, were aware of Kidd's frustrations with some of Scott's decisions during games - particularly during the team's slump in March and after Game 6 of the finals - his lack of communication with players and his work ethic. Kidd and other players had approached Thorn during the season, and Kidd spoke to Thorn immediately after Game 6, according to several people close to the team.

At times, Kidd felt the Nets would never improve under Scott and in private meetings with Thorn during the season, Kidd asked him what he was going to do about it, according to a person with intimate knowledge of the team.

Thorn and the Nets' ownership believe that Scott's presence would not ultimately be a determining factor in whether Kidd would stay in New Jersey.

Scott, who has been the Nets' head coach for three seasons and has taken the Nets to the N.B.A. finals the past two years, has one year remaining on his contract. The Nets have not discussed a contract extension with him.

In a recent meeting with Nets officials, Kidd was more concerned about the team's signing the free-agent center Alonzo Mourning and the new assistant coaches, according to several people with knowledge of the meeting.

A week after the season, however, the Nets gave Kidd an opportunity to influence the decision on Scott's future, according to a person with intimate knowledge of the Nets.

Kidd had a close relationship to an assistant coach, Eddie Jordan, who ran practices, dispensed pregame strategy and motivational speeches and commanded the respect of all the Nets, who looked at him as the leader of the team. Before Jordan was offered the Wizards' job, Nets management asked Kidd how he felt about Scott, according to a person with knowledge of the conversation.

Kidd said that he did not have a problem with Scott and, according to the person familiar with the conversation, said, "We worked out our differences."

Donny Marshall, one of Kidd's close friends on the team, said he advised Kidd not to get in the middle of management decisions after the season.

"I told him, 'It's not your job to worry about who the coach is,' " Marshall said yesterday. " 'Just control what's going on in the floor. You're the point guard.'

"It's not his job to say I want this guy or I want that guy. I told him, 'Don't get involved in that.' "

Kidd, according to Marshall, told him, "I don't want that responsibility."

Marshall said Kidd had left him a voice-mail message yesterday. "He said there was stuff going on in the paper that someone, somewhere, said that he has a problem with Byron, but that he did not say that."

Kidd and his wife met with Thorn and part of the Nets' ownership group Tuesday night for dinner in Manhattan. Jeff Schwartz, the agent for Kidd, was not there, said Joumana Kidd.

Kidd and the Nets officials discussed numerous issues. Signing Mourning was at the top of the list. Joumana Kidd, who had been in contact with Mourning this week, said she hoped Mourning would not be swayed by the reports and would still come to New Jersey. "I'm crossing my fingers," she said.

According to a person with intimate knowledge of the meeting, Kidd and the officials discussed issues about Scott's coaching.

Kidd said Marshall was also very interested in the Nets hiring what Marshall called "credible" assistant coaches for Scott's staff. But Kidd never issued an ultimatum or requested that Scott be fired.

"There wasn't a human being at that dinner who heard those words," said the person with knowledge of the meeting. "We asked him point-blank and he said, 'I have no problem with Coach.'

"He never put himself in a position to make that kind of demand."

Asked about his former club's tumult, Jordan said, "I would hope Rod can bring them together and resolve it."

Kidd, according to people close to him, is still affected by helping to lead the players' revolt at the University of California in his freshman year in 1993 that resulted in the firing of Coach Lou Campanelli.

Kidd, one of the leaders of the movement, made statements in the news media about Campanelli's coaching. Kidd was pleased when the assistant coach Todd Bozeman was promoted. That season California went to the Round of 16. Since then, Kidd has never wanted to be known as a coach-killer.

Joumana Kidd said that when her husband talked to Nets officials Tuesday night he emphasized one point: "I want to play for a team where everybody's committed down from the coach to the families," she said