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madape
08-04-2003, 04:52 PM
http://espn.go.com/media/nba/2002/1111/photo/a_stepania_ti.jpg

Position: C
Born: 05/08/76
Height: 7-1 / 2,16
Weight: 255 lbs. / 115,7 kg.
From: Republic of Georgia

Ranks #17 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(211.0)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(2.7)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(6.4)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(10.3)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(16.7)

Could Step be the best free agent center still out there? According to the Miami Sun Sentinel, he's turning down the Heat's offer and is looking for around $4 Mil per year. (see around the NBA section)

Blonde Bomber
08-04-2003, 04:57 PM
If Cuban is willing to pay the 4 mil + plus the 4 mil in luxary tax then I wouldn't mind having the guy.
He could compete for a starting spot and at worst be a viable option off the bench at center.
But I don't think Cuban wants to pay 8 million a year for that.

Tony tha Mavs fan
08-04-2003, 04:58 PM
Why not go after Stepania, he would be a nice compliment, if the Mavs were to trade Lafrentz. Sign Stepania b4 the Spurs/Lakers/Kings/Twolves sign himi/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

kg_veteran
08-04-2003, 05:21 PM
The guy is a great rebounder, a banger, and has a mean streak. Why not?

Honestly, if he's looking for a 2 year, $8 millon deal like Campbell got, why not give it to him? That's not a long-term commitment, unlike the Mavericks' commitment to every other center they have, and they get the MLE for a reason -- to use it.

Sure, Cuban will have to pay the luxury tax. But if he's not willing to spend the money to improve the team, then why did the Mavericks tell us they planned on using both exceptions in the first place?

I honestly could live with it if the following happened:

Sign Stepania to a contract for the majority of the MLE.
Sign Raja Bell back with the 1.5.
Trade LaFrentz and Avery Johnson for Brian Grant.

Lineup:

Bradley - Stepania - Eschmeyer
Grant - Najera
Nowitzki - Howard
Finley - Bell
Nash - Van Exel

You still have Van Exel around to use in another trade, if necessary. You've jettisoned Raef's contract. Your starting lineup is better. Your rebounding is excellent. You still lack a premiere perimeter defender, but you have an extra guy in Howard to throw into the "perimeter defense" mix. You could probably still sign Adrian Griffin back as a 12th man just to guard Kobe when we play the Lakers.

I could live with this. Of our chief competitors for the title in the West, only Sacramento has a small forward that could burn Dirk on the perimeter. I think Dirk works at SF. Also, by putting Dirk at SF, you have an excellent rebounding team. Dirk gets 10, Grant gets 10, Bradley gets 6-7. Stepania should get you 6-7 off the bench, Najera should manage 3, and Howard should get 2-3. That's at least 37 rebounds a game from your frontcourt. With even 10 rebounds from the backcourt (5 from Finley, at least 5 from the other 3), you're a damn good rebounding team.

This is starting to grow on me. At least you've transformed into a damn good rebounding team, you've added bulk inside (Grant and Stepania), and you should have a somewhat more rugged team.

mavsfanforever
08-04-2003, 05:26 PM
I think they have to go after this guy now before somebody else does it. I do not want the mavs to wait till Feb 21 and then give lame excuses at the end of the season that "CURRENT SET OF PLAYERS HAVE NOT PLAYED FULL SEASON TOGETHER AND THUS WE NEED TO GIVE THEM ANOTHER CHANCE".

DIRK BRASIL
08-04-2003, 05:47 PM
Stepania is a good player for us.

Chiwas
08-04-2003, 05:53 PM
Stepania is The One.

(For the Mavs today)

mikeinrowlett
08-04-2003, 08:54 PM
Please don't look at the player acquisition period as being up when the season starts. Trades can be made up until the Feb trade deadline and adding payroll makes just that much tougher to make a deal. Unless you can sign the guy for one year and make him a part of a mid season deal it doesn't make much sense. Don't make a move for the sake of making a move. Mavericks will still have a team vying for the top spot. Who did we lose to last year? The top contenders in the west. We may still lose to those teams but will continue to beat the have nots of the east and the wannabes in the west. I see alot of panic on this board. Relax people, the Mavs will be fine and will make the right moves when the time comes. I was upset when we didn't land anyone that would help but to just get someone because they are available is not the way to go. Raef Lafrentz is better than this guy. He will certainly improve and please consider he is still young. He will be given more of an opportunity to score inside and not be asked to hang out 18-23 feet away from the basket as much. No to Stephania and yes to giving Raef another opportunity to show what he can do. Unless we can trade for a true center/banger I don't really see the point.

kg_veteran
08-04-2003, 09:26 PM
Please don't look at the player acquisition period as being up when the season starts. Trades can be made up until the Feb trade deadline and adding payroll makes just that much tougher to make a deal.

Mark? Mark Cuban? Is that you? Honestly, if you're not him, you sound just like him. Adding payroll doesn't make it any tougher to make a deal. The Mavs are currently $38 million over the cap. How does going further over the cap hurt? Only one way. Mark Cuban's pocket. And he has told us many times before that money was no object.

Unless you can sign the guy for one year and make him a part of a mid season deal it doesn't make much sense.

Huh? If the guy can give you 5 points and 7 rebounds per game in 20 minutes of playing time, I'd say it's worth it. Combine that with the 7/7 Shawn is likely to put up, and you have a decent 12 points and an excellent 14 rebounds out of the center position.

Don't make a move for the sake of making a move. Mavericks will still have a team vying for the top spot.

I swear, you must be Cuban. Mark, why haven't you been responding to my emails, man?

Who did we lose to last year? The top contenders in the west. We may still lose to those teams but will continue to beat the have nots of the east and the wannabes in the west. I see alot of panic on this board. Relax people, the Mavs will be fine and will make the right moves when the time comes.

Dude, just get your username changed, because you are definitely Cuban.

The Mavs don't need to make any additions to be a very good team. You're right about that. But if they want to be a legit championship contender, they need to make moves. And why should we relax and trust them to maket he right moves "when the time comes?" They told us before July 1 that we should relax because they were going to have a productive summer. What has it produced? Nada. Nothing. Zilch.

Stepania can be a relatively low risk investment for the Mavericks. But it will require Mark Cuban to spend money, something he doesn't really appear willing to do.

Brian Grant can be had if the Mavericks are willing to give up something decent, like LaFrentz. But they can't get him for a package of Esch, Williams, and Rigaudeaux. Or somesuch. You have to give to get, and swapping Raef for Grant just makes a lot of sense.

I was upset when we didn't land anyone that would help but to just get someone because they are available is not the way to go.

Unless they might could actually help, which Stepania could.

Raef Lafrentz is better than this guy.

Possibly, but we're not talking about trading LaFrentz for him. You could theoretically have both.

He will certainly improve and please consider he is still young.

Hell, he's virtually an All-Star. Why do we even need help inside?

He will be given more of an opportunity to score inside and not be asked to hang out 18-23 feet away from the basket as much.

Really? Says who? You?

No to Stephania and yes to giving Raef another opportunity to show what he can do. Unless we can trade for a true center/banger I don't really see the point.

Raef and Stepania are not mutually exclusive. Even if the Mavs keep Raef, they could start Raef at PF if they acquired Stepania, theoretically.

Stepania seems to me to be a true center. He's 7'1", 255 lbs. He also seems to be a banger. He crashes the glass and throws his body around. He's just the kind of guy the Mavs could use off the bench. Why are you so against him?

mikeinrowlett
08-04-2003, 09:40 PM
Yes, says me. More of an opportunity to play in the paint. I think you'll see a change of philosophy on the offensive end to include more chances there for Raef. Raef blocks shots on the weakside and straight up against his man more than he is given credit for on the defensive end. I understand Stepania gets good rebounds per minutes but is this against front line guys? NO. Is it against Shaq and Duncan and Garnett in the West. Spares in the east. You are overselling this guy big time. It is assumed here that if Raef is not here he has been traded for someone who can help in the middle and the 7'1" overrated Stepania on this board will not be needed. Please remember if you are paying this guy essentially EIGHT MILLION BUCKS a year when considering tax implications that a deal to take on bad contracts to get a guy we really want ain't gonna happen. We have enough of those already. Does Stepania get you to the NBA Finals? HELL NO!!! So what's the point? If you can answer that question I really don't see how you can justify the signing. P.S. You can't.
'

Dooby
08-04-2003, 09:59 PM
As championed by Rhylan, it is patently unfair to say it costs $8M for Stepania. Stepania is not the reason we are hopelessly above the luxury tax. It is the combined total of all of the salaries. If that were the case, why is Stepania to be singled out? AJ costs $11M. Wahed costs $12M. Beloved Raef costs $14M and Finley costs $26M.

If the team insists on continuing the delusional notion that it needs to get an $8M player for $4M in salary and $4M in luxury taxes, then this team will never improve.

kg_veteran
08-04-2003, 10:10 PM
Yes, says me. More of an opportunity to play in the paint. I think you'll see a change of philosophy on the offensive end to include more chances there for Raef.

So tell me WHY you believe that. Have you ever seen Raef LaFrentz post up in a Mavericks uniform? I think I've seen it happen one time in a year and a half. Explain to me why you believe next year will be completely different.

Raef blocks shots on the weakside and straight up against his man more than he is given credit for on the defensive end.

Actually, he gets credit for every block he makes. And his block totals were down drastically last year. Yet, we all know Raef can block shots. No one's complaining about that. People that dislike Raef dislike him because he couldn't defend ME in the post, much less an NBA post player.

I understand Stepania gets good rebounds per minutes but is this against front line guys? NO. Is it against Shaq and Duncan and Garnett in the West. Spares in the east.

Actually, let's look at how he performed against a few Western powers:

vs. LA: 8.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg in 24 mpg
vs. Sacto: 8.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg in 20.5 mpg
vs. SA: 4.0 ppg, 10.5 rpg in 21.5 mpg
vs. Dallas: 5.0 ppg, 8.0 rpg in 19.0 mpg

It looks to me like he did just fine against the Top 4 in the West. Try again.

You are overselling this guy big time.

No, I'm just refusing to let you undersell him. I'm not proclaiming him the savior. However, he can definitely come in and provide some help -- so why not sign him? I'm not talking about offering him a 6 or 7 year deal, but why would a 2 year deal hurt?

It is assumed here that if Raef is not here he has been traded for someone who can help in the middle and the 7'1" overrated Stepania on this board will not be needed.

Assumed by you. I'm in favor of acquiring Stepania whether or not Raef is moved. Surely you're not saying that the Mavs don't have room for both guys on the roster, are you?

Please remember if you are paying this guy essentially EIGHT MILLION BUCKS a year when considering tax implications that a deal to take on bad contracts to get a guy we really want ain't gonna happen.
We have enough of those already.

Why not? To get a guy we "really want" we're likely going to ship out a couple of bad contracts too. I just don't see your logic here at all.

Stop analyzing it based on luxury tax. It's not Stepania that got the Mavs into the luxury tax. In the NBA economy, 4 million/year for a decent center isn't a bad deal. If they can get him for less, fine. But I could care less about the luxury tax. That's Cuban's problem, and he used to claim that he was more than willing to pay it.

Does Stepania get you to the NBA Finals? HELL NO!!! So what's the point? If you can answer that question I really don't see how you can justify the signing. P.S. You can't.

Terrible logic. If we're going to wait to make a move until we are pretty sure it gets us to the NBA Finals, we're going to be waiting quite a while.

kg_veteran
08-04-2003, 10:11 PM
As championed by Rhylan, it is patently unfair to say it costs $8M for Stepania. Stepania is not the reason we are hopelessly above the luxury tax. It is the combined total of all of the salaries. If that were the case, why is Stepania to be singled out? AJ costs $11M. Wahed costs $12M. Beloved Raef costs $14M and Finley costs $26M.

If the team insists on continuing the delusional notion that it needs to get an $8M player for $4M in salary and $4M in luxury taxes, then this team will never improve.

Exactly. Well said.

FilthyFinMavs
08-04-2003, 10:15 PM
Go after him if the Mavs feel the need but you must ship Bradley or Esch out of here before considering. There is no way you can have 3 centers on this team that don't bang at all. Stepania is a good name if you got lets say a guy like Dampier on the bench or ahead of him. Bradley and Esch are just too inconsistent and don't bang at all for me to be sold on Stepania.

Bayliss
08-04-2003, 10:15 PM
I'd sign Stepania. In fact, I started a topic on him about a week or so ago.

But my guess is we won't sign him. Mark Cuban and Nellie want to add all-star quality players without giving up jack schitt. And never mind the fact that in order to get quality you have to give up quality. And totally ignore the fact that what we are missing is a quality role player or two and not all-stars.

mikeinrowlett
08-04-2003, 10:47 PM
Sorry I have to say Stepania is the 8 million dollar man because that is what it costs to sign him. To add him it costs that much. To not add him costs nothing. You give up that slot you lose flexibility at the trade deadline and you lose the ability to add even more salary. Cuban has balked at adding freakin' Tyrone Hill because he didn't want to pay the tax. He is willing to pay but for a player that makes the ultimate difference. A championship. I think that is really the only question I asked from you. Does his addition get us to championship level. I still say no and anyone who says yes is a damn fool. The desire to add a player or make a foolish trade is short sighted. Patience my man. Patience. February is just around the corner. A better deal is to be had there if nothing can be worked out in the off season. Hey, the guy can definitely help. But the championship is what it is all about. His signing would definitely take the Mavs out of the running for trades later this season. A trade that may make the difference. This ain't the difference we need. Hell, Miami isn't willing to offer him a big contract. Why? They have cap space. Oh wait they want to land a player that can help them get better. Well so do we. I think.

Dirk41= konsesjonen
08-04-2003, 10:52 PM
KG, when your on, your on.

MFFL
08-04-2003, 11:03 PM
Sign him. The Mavs could use the toughness up front. If he turns out to be another Esch then he can ride the pine for the two years. For a two year contract it is too good to pass up.

mikeinrowlett
08-04-2003, 11:14 PM
KG is ON? He is so far off it is not even comical. Unfortunately Mr Cuban does not get to play by Rhylan's rules. I'm not aware of the NBA rule where you can waive a player that you didn't want and not have it count against your salary cap. Except for a major injury of course. Bringing him in does cost the Mavericks 8 million bucks, real money. It is a factor when considering players. Your current situation effects future moves. You guys live in a fantasyland. Regardless of the player it costs Mr Cuban an extra 8 million dollars. To not add him counts nothing. Put whomever you wish in the 8 million slot but would you pay Avery Johnson 8 million dollars to have Stepania on your team? Hell no.

Fah Q
08-04-2003, 11:53 PM
Mike why would the signing of Stepania effect an in season trade? You don't think we would give up players to get players? Maybe we trade the same amount of players we get. I think the Mavs need role players like Vlad. I hate Raefs contract but I'm not saying we should trade him when we get Vlad. I actually don't mind the thought of Raef playing about 20 min at PF and maybe 5-8 at C a night. Then you plug Brad and Vlad in the C position the rest of the night. IMO that would be pretty formidable considering we already have three All-Stars Fin, Dirk, Nash and one really good bench player NVE. I say we get some good depth and people who will do the little things (Rebounding) for the Mavs.

mikeinrowlett
08-05-2003, 12:47 AM
The reason signing someone to a contract with the MLE will effect trades at the break is due to dollars. We will most certainly have to take on more bad contracts in an effort to get better. This means longer term for higher dollars. Avery Johnson is certain to go in a trade and he is eaten up by a bad contract that we must keep in future years. It all adds up to flexibility. The more players you sign and the higher over the cap you go the less likely a deal can be done. I'm not he couldn't help us but what I am saying he is not worth the money and the loss in flexibility. I know those in the general public wish we would have signed Keon Clark last year. Sacramento wants to drop him like a bad habit. Next year we will not have this slot if someone better comes along if we sign Stepania. I have faith Mr Cuban has all the angles covered. If nothing else I have learned to spell Stepania thru this exercise.

Fah Q
08-05-2003, 12:56 AM
Someone will come along next year? I guess that's just like last year or even this year. Right? I'm sick of hearing about next year. If we are looking at next year lets move some of our older players for some younger ones, if we want it this year we have to make improvements on our depth and get some quality at center. I'm not expecting Vlad to be a savior but I do think he could be pretty productive in about 20-25 minutes a game.

Evilmav2
08-05-2003, 01:18 AM
I know those in the general public wish we would have signed Keon Clark last year.

Well, I'll just thank goodness we don't have any of the members of that "general public" or Geoff Petrie making roster-aquisition decisions for our Mavs...

On the subject of Vlad and trades:

I think that Vladimir Stepania might be a pretty decent stop-gap aquistion for us, but I also tend to think that the man might not be offensively able enough to fit into a Nelson-style offense, and judging by his rejection of the Miami offer, he and his agent might have salary asperations that place the man outside of the reach of our MLE... He could be a nice player for us, but his aquistion by the Mavs just seems pretty unlikely to me...

Aside from the issue of FA Vlad, I will actually agree with the newcomer Rowlett in his assertion that any prospective trade's in the Mav's future are far more likely to happen at next season's trade deadline than at any time in the remainder of this pre-season...

Sure, the Cuban-Nelson braintrust has certainly been threatened by the menacing FA aquisitions of the Lakers, Spurs, and TWolves (A lot of folks also think that Sacramento significantly upgraded this Summer, but methinks they got fleeced in paying the price that they paid for Eastern conference utility-junk-man Brad Miller), but I don't believe that Dallas is about to make a stupid deal just for the sake of forcing some movement this off-season...

Unless something significant happens between Dallas and Atlanta (soon to be the fief of Mavs season-ticket holder and former Mavs minority owner David McDavid), I just don't see us making any significant trade moves before mid-season of next year...

DirkDiggler
08-05-2003, 01:22 AM
hey yo..i dunno bout u...but i dont want to wait till feb trade deadline..

the reason we need to act now or next season(AND HAVE TO NEXT SEASON)...is cuz u want the player to go through the motions of they nellie weirdo system to understand it....its been a season and a half and raef still dont understand it..imagine how it'd be in feb if we traded and got a guy of raefs poetentials or better..and still not fit in well in nellie's system..u'll have a nother 1st-2nd round early exit topss...

u need to add someone do it b4 the season starts..so that way when playoff comes around the guy knows his way..the coach knows his player and the team knows how to react...

although im not much fan of the coach...nellie is a pussy who needs to make his team better now...

and no i too dont want to say "next season KG"..after last years Lewis and this years Zo....

if we do dat..next year comes around and KG decides..ehy I love minnie im gonna stay....or i feel miami or anyother tom dick or harry has a good chance at a championship..
then cubs will come out and say...the agent said it was a done deal...KG went the other way....

although a KG-Dirk combo is deadly..still dont wanna wait 4 it..im a result guy..every team i've followed got a championshi...i just started likin the mavs the past 2 yrs..and we've progressed so much...dirk is now my fav player..and i dont want to see us regress..not after the WCF...now i say we need to go forward...though realistically we wont...we need to...and if it means to say goodbye to one our 4 best..then so be it..just as long as we're gettin same quality all-stars in return.........

4cwebb
08-05-2003, 06:57 AM
Evilmav2, of all the players the Mavs wouldn't want, I would imagine that Keon Clark is not on that list...at least he has tangible athleticism around the basket and isn't prone to picking up three fouls in the first quarter. Not to mention the fact that, despite the efforts of the Mavs to acquire yet another big white stiff (Brad Miller), Geoff Petrie landed him for the Kings instead this offseason...who would you rather have on your team for 7 years and around $70 million...Miller or Raef? Yeah, I'd rather have Miller, too.

Still, the Mavs have plenty of options to pick up a guy for much less money that can be a serviceable banger in the paint. Stepania might be that guy...he has certainly proven that he can throw his weight around, albeit in the same conference where Brad Miller made a name for himself. If I were a diehard Mavs' fan, I'd rather see Dampier or Dale Davis, but those guys cannot just up and walk away from their teams like Stepania.

madape
08-05-2003, 08:24 AM
I'd rather have Raef. He's much more athletic. Much more skilled. His upside is much higher.

Miller is a utility man - a lumbering bruising thug. Is he any better than Stepania? Probably not. The numbers say Step is a better rebounder. He's definitely got more range on his shot. Step is taller. He's more skilled. I'm not saying that Step is anything more than a backup center in the West, but that's about all I can say for Miller, too. Raef? I think he has the potential to be a very nice player in this league. We can likely get Step for around $8 mil for two years. Much closer to what he's worth than the ridiculous contract given to Miller.

Dooby
08-05-2003, 08:48 AM
Apologies in advance for rambling.

A 2 year deal at $4M for Stepania is not particularly stupid. It is not reckless. It is not outrageous. It's real impact on this team's salary cap situation is negligible.

The real problem is that Mark has it in his head that he has to get some crazy-ass bargain. I keep going back to Horry and Pippen, two player I didn't even want. But apparently the good ol' Mavs had interest. Each guy signed for an amount equivalent to the MLE. Cuban offered each the Million Dollar exception of $1.5M for 2 years. Now Horry is the better example for my point. Horry signed a 2-year deal with the second being the team's option. SA will not exercise the option. Basically, SA signed Horry for a 1 year deal. The Mavs could have offered the same money, but didn't even try. A 1 year deal has no impact on the future of this club.

At first Cuban tried to use the $4.9M exception to get Malone or Mourning; two players worth more than $4.9M (if Mourning were healthy and if Malone weren't set on getting a ring), but seemed prepared to take that amount. Cuban was right with those two, but ultimately came up empty handed.

Since then, Cuban really has been dicking around. He has offered the MLE to players only a moron would think they might accept-Miller, Nasty, for example. I even toss Kandi on there, though his agent apparently coerced him into taking the MLE to play with his college roommate. Maybe Cuban was trying to initiate a sign and trade or maybe he wasn't.

Or he has offered the small exception to players that were being offered more elsewhere.

We have also, apparently, been offering our junk to other teams for their starters.

Now, none of this is a real problem, except that the Mavs have real deficiencies. Remember that throughout the season, just about everybody on this board agreed that the Mavs needed to: get a real starting small forward; improve low post scoring; add depth to the bench; find a real backup shooting guard; overall improve the defense. Well, hey, I think we decided that Raja can back up Finley. The only other issue addressed is drafting Josh Howard. Howard is not the answer despite the claims of the Mavs PR machine. If Howard puts up Najera-esque numbers, he'll be a smashing success; at the same time, he'll also be of very little help for a "contending team"(particularly when it means that he won't contribute much beyond the loss of production of either Walt or Grif).

So we have all these issues to be addressed, and we have done nothing to address them.

Imagine going to an auction. The auctioneer announces that the bidding will start at $10M. If a guy jumps up and screams "$3M!!!", that guy will look like a fool. Now further imagine, that after the initial offer of $10M, the bidding goes up to $15M, and the same guy is jumping up and down screaming "$5M!!!".

In essence, this is what Cuban is doing.

Now, I have a question. Is that even trying? Skin of "Ben and Skin" was on the Ticket last week and he said that at least the effort was there. Well, is it really? Are you really trying to make a trade when you are only willing to part with TAW, AJ, Esch or Bradley? Are you actually trying to acquire talent when you offer a guy that made the allstar team in 2003 less than he made the year before (Brad Miller)? Are you trying to acquire talent when you offer a guy 1/3 what another team offers when you can offer the same amount (pippen)? Are you trying to acquire talent when you offer a guy less money over 2 years what another team offers for just one year (Horry)? The Mavs have done or are doing all these things. Is that "effort"?

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 09:19 AM
mikeinrowlett - Before I respond to your post, I just wanted to politely ask that you do everyone a favor and insert a couple of paragraph breaks here and there in your posts. One huge paragraph makes it very difficult to read.

Sorry I have to say Stepania is the 8 million dollar man because that is what it costs to sign him. To add him it costs that much. To not add him costs nothing.

I guess the posts above didn't explain it clearly enough. If the Mavericks were sufficiently under the cap, signing Stepania wouldn't cost them any luxury tax. The Mavs, however, have been above the cap for quite a while now. WAY above the cap. They pay luxury tax (and a lot of it) whether or not Stepania comes here. The only reason Stepania costs them any luxury tax at all is because they are already above the cap.

And as Dooby aptly pointed out, if the Mavs are going to go around thinking they have to get an 8 million dollar player for 4 million, they're never going to improve. It's not the player's fault that the Mavs are over the cap, and if the Mavs want to improve they're going to have to pay reasonably close to market value to get players.

In other words, if you wait and don't sign Stepania, what are you waiting for? ANY FA you sign is going to cause you to pay more luxury tax. And if you're expecting to just wait around and get somebody for 50 cents on the dollar, well, that's just moronic.

You give up that slot you lose flexibility at the trade deadline and you lose the ability to add even more salary.

What slot are you talking about? What flexibility are you talking about? I've asked you to explain this before, and you have yet to do it.

Cuban has balked at adding freakin' Tyrone Hill because he didn't want to pay the tax.

He balked at adding Tyrone Hill because he sucks. Stepania's quite a bit younger and is a legit center who is a great rebounder and a banger inside.

Let me pose it to you this way: If Stepania's not good enough to spend money on, who is? And I don't want an answer like, "The guy that will get us a championship." Give me a name. Or names.

He is willing to pay but for a player that makes the ultimate difference. A championship. I think that is really the only question I asked from you. Does his addition get us to championship level. I still say no and anyone who says yes is a damn fool.

As I told you in my last post, this is terrible logic. If you think there's one guy out there that you can add for the MLE that's going to get you a title, you're crazy. Also, who ever said that you shouldn't add a player unless you know he's going to get you a title? Certainly not any GM in the NBA. There are guys you can add that would improve your team. It's about improving, and addressing deficiencies.

The desire to add a player or make a foolish trade is short sighted.

The desire to add a player is short sighted? Huh? Why? If the guy can help the team, he can help the team. When do you deem it okay to add a player, and who should we add?

Who said anything about a foolish trade? Are you honestly saying LaFrentz/AJ for Grant (the only trade I've discussed in this thread) would be foolish?

Patience my man. Patience. February is just around the corner. A better deal is to be had there if nothing can be worked out in the off season.

You have absolutely no basis for this statement.

Hey, the guy can definitely help.

So you admit it? Thanks. That's all I needed to hear.

But the championship is what it is all about. His signing would definitely take the Mavs out of the running for trades later this season. A trade that may make the difference. This ain't the difference we need. Hell, Miami isn't willing to offer him a big contract. Why? They have cap space. Oh wait they want to land a player that can help them get better. Well so do we. I think.

Don't contradict yourself. You just said he can definitely help. Now you say he wouldn't make Miami better? Huh?

As for your statement that a Stepania signing takes the Mavs out of running for trades, I'll refer to my question above: How?

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 09:35 AM
Bringing him in does cost the Mavericks 8 million bucks, real money. It is a factor when considering players. Your current situation effects future moves. You guys live in a fantasyland. Regardless of the player it costs Mr Cuban an extra 8 million dollars.

Honestly, mike, I don't care if it costs "Mr. Cuban" an extra 8 million dollars. Mark Cuban used to tell me (the fan) that money was no object and that he wouldn't let the luxury tax get in the way of acquiring better players. He's now reversed his stance.

The Mavericks are in "salary cap hell" (as Randy Galloway might put it) for the foreseeable future. To get better, they have to do one of the following:

1) make a trade
2) draft a player
3) sign a FA

If they make a trade, they can try to dump long-term contracts in the process, but it's difficult to do. Especially when you're also trying to get something for nothing in the same trade.

If they draft a player, it doesn't significantly impact the cap, but in the spot the Mavs are drafting, it also doesn't significantly impact the team.

If they sign a FA, they have to pay more tax. Bottom line. I don't care who the FA is.

So what's the point? Simple. If you're going to acquire a free agent, you're going to have to pay market value. You can't go around saying, "Michael Redd isn't worth 8-9 million dollars. We're not going to sign him. Vladimir Stepania isn't worth 7-8 million dollars. We're not going to sign him either." What player available for a 3-4.5 million salary is worth twice that? Answer: NOBODY.

So if we're going to go into cost-cutting mode and not acquire any new players, fine. But if that was going to be the case, then they shouldn't have told us a completely different story in June. They should have just come out and said the following:

"We're not going to sign any free agents unless we can get an absolute steal. We don't want to pay the luxury tax. Our first goal is not to improve -- it's to save money. Also, we're not going to make any trades unless we can give away guys off the end of the bench and acquire a starting caliber player in return. We don't want to trade any player that logged more than 20 minutes per game last season. By the way, did we mention that Raef has re-dedicated himself?" -- Mavericks Management

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 09:48 AM
The real problem is that Mark has it in his head that he has to get some crazy-ass bargain.

The truth.

Now, none of this is a real problem, except that the Mavs have real deficiencies. Remember that throughout the season, just about everybody on this board agreed that the Mavs needed to: get a real starting small forward; improve low post scoring; add depth to the bench; find a real backup shooting guard; overall improve the defense. Well, hey, I think we decided that Raja can back up Finley. The only other issue addressed is drafting Josh Howard. Howard is not the answer despite the claims of the Mavs PR machine. If Howard puts up Najera-esque numbers, he'll be a smashing success; at the same time, he'll also be of very little help for a "contending team"(particularly when it means that he won't contribute much beyond the loss of production of either Walt or Grif).

So we have all these issues to be addressed, and we have done nothing to address them.

This gets lost in the mix a lot of times. The Mavs had needs to address, and they haven't done it.

Imagine going to an auction. The auctioneer announces that the bidding will start at $10M. If a guy jumps up and screams "$3M!!!", that guy will look like a fool. Now further imagine, that after the initial offer of $10M, the bidding goes up to $15M, and the same guy is jumping up and down screaming "$5M!!!".

In essence, this is what Cuban is doing.

Preach on.

Now, I have a question. Is that even trying? Skin of "Ben and Skin" was on the Ticket last week and he said that at least the effort was there. Well, is it really? Are you really trying to make a trade when you are only willing to part with TAW, AJ, Esch or Bradley? Are you actually trying to acquire talent when you offer a guy that made the allstar team in 2003 less than he made the year before (Brad Miller)? Are you trying to acquire talent when you offer a guy 1/3 what another team offers when you can offer the same amount (pippen)? Are you trying to acquire talent when you offer a guy less money over 2 years what another team offers for just one year (Horry)? The Mavs have done or are doing all these things. Is that "effort"?

An interesting point. I have to say no, it's not. If I go into a car dealership and offer them $15,000.00 for a new Ford Expedition, I shouldn't be shocked when they tell me that they can't help me. Same concept here. You'll never get something for nothing in the NBA. No matter how much "effort" you put into it.

Evilmav2
08-05-2003, 12:34 PM
At first Cuban tried to use the $4.9M exception to get Malone or Mourning; two players worth more than $4.9M (if Mourning were healthy and if Malone weren't set on getting a ring), but seemed prepared to take that amount. Cuban was right with those two, but ultimately came up empty handed.

Unfortunately, no.

This Summer, we recruited Mourning, snubbed Malone, and thus flushed our best chance of significantly improving our team without resorting to trades languidly down the toilet...

Prior to the start of free-agency, Malone clearly indicated to the Deseret news and to Eddie Sefko of the DMN that Dallas was at the top of a very short list of his favored free-agency locations, but following Cuban's widely publicized Mourning visit at midnight of June 30, Malone responded to this affront like a spurned lover- ripping unnamed teams who looked at him as a "10th option" in the press and jumping at the Lakers $1.5 million offer...

Any claims that Malone joining the Lakers was inevitable, are foolishness and fallacy. The terrible truth is that our Dallas Mavericks probably could have signed the hall of fame power forward, if we had responded to his messages in the press by making it clear to the man that he was our first, and best option in FA. Instead, our front office lusted after the paired pipe-dreams of aquiring a lost, and never to return, 1998-form Mourning, and a executing a fantasy sign-and-trade for Jason Kidd...

Malone could have been a Mav, but our pursuit of the fickle and ruined kidney's of Alonzo Mourning not only scuttled that hope, but probably determined what city will be hosting an NBA championship parade next July...

NewMexiMav
08-05-2003, 12:40 PM
If Cuban is willing to take on Grant's huge-ass salary, why does signing Step to a 2 year, $8M contract scare him?

While I'd like to see us get Grant, there are a few things that scare me:

1) Age. He'll be 32 when the playoffs roll around. Still very productive, but how long before the stats start to decline? Particularly if he's playing nightly in the more rugged West.

2) Size. He's definitely undersized for what the Mavs will want him to do, especially if we don't add any other front line help.

3) Cost. As mentioned above, he's got a Finley-type contract, with 3 years to go. If we get him and his production drops from his Miami numbers, do we have another salary albatross around our necks?

Stepania is five years younger than Grant, he is definitely a center (not undersized), and if you can get him for two years, that's not a long term commitment. Sure he doesn't put up Grant's numbers, but we can get him without giving up NVE or Raef or whomever. I think Cuban has a hard time giving Step $4M a year deal because he thought he had Mourning for $4.9M. Cubes need to get over that and get us some front line help. If you look at Step's numbers and what the other sorry-ass centers around the league are commanding in salary, I don't think $4M is too out of line. My only concern: If Step is as underrated as we all think, how come Miami doesn't appear very interested? After all, they need to fill Mourning's void--apparently they are more interested in Samaki Walker?? Or are they saving their pennies for the offer sheet to Odom?

My gut feeling is, let's get Step before one of our rivals does. He'll add some depth, we can see how he performs for the 1st half of the year. If it doesn't work, let's look at a deadline deal. I'm just not sure the Grant thing makes sense considering what we'd have to give up and what we'd be inheriting in salary. i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 01:55 PM
Excellent post, NewMexiMav.

Chicago JK
08-05-2003, 02:18 PM
I don't understand the infatuation of Step on this board. Granted I haven't seen him play the last few years, but lets look at the facts.

He has been shunned by at least 3 teams (Seattle, NJ and NY I believe). When he was in NJ, Esch was on that team. Esch played a ton more minutes then the great mr. Step.

Last year he played on a heat team with no depth and no center. He managed 20 minutes on that same centerless team who was also a very bad team.

This offseason big guys are getting overpaid by everyone. The Heat still don't have a center and have 12 million in cap room. Riley who has seen this 7'1 GREAT rebounder play for two years but has only offered him the minimum for 1 year to come back. Plus no other of the teams in the league who all could use a center or a GREAT rebounder has offered this kid a multi year deal.

For God's sake, sign him to a small deal but I don't see the infactuation for this kid. Were these the same people saying the sky was falling when Booth and Wang left? Maybe he is slipping through the cracks and is a player who is improving, although I think that at best he is a 8-9 man on a team. We already have Bradley for that.

mikeinrowlett
08-05-2003, 02:41 PM
KGveteran I'll try to remember the paragraph thing. I think were you and I get crossed up is your assumption that the MLE must be spent. I have never suggested that it need be so. In fact I wish to err on the side of caution regarding this matter. It is irrelevant if we are over the cap at this time. I understand that the MLE is afforded to us due to the fact that we are over the cap and that this is the only reason we have it.

Just one more point regarding contradicting myself. Stepania would not be signed by Miami to be the final piece to a championship puzzle. Nor would he be here. I think he could help but towards the ulitimate goal he is a non factor.

Who is the player that will get us to the championship. He comes in a trade, not a MLE signing. I think the Mavericks themselves admitted as much. You have to deal in speculation when it comes to the future because nothing is certain. Declaring that Stepania is worthy of signing in and of itself is speculation. NO different than me speculating that Raef wiill play in the post or that a better deal will come along.

I'm sure there was some other stuff but I can't remember it right now.

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 02:44 PM
Chicago JK - I don't think anyone's overly infatuated with the guy. The simple fact is, in today's market, a 2 year, $8 million deal isn't that bad. Hell, Elden Campbell got that type of contract. Stepania's a better deal than he is.

FolterKammer84
08-05-2003, 02:53 PM
imo steph would fit very well with our other international players. he will be very happy to play with other fellas that come from foreign countries just like himself and another thing is that he would compete for a title instead of competing for a playoff spot in the east that will definitely motivate him too.
and dont forget that it is also like he would just start to play for his next contract because 2 years arent that long and he knows that the west is tougher than the east.
for me getting dampier and stepahnia while keeping raef and bradley and moving esch wouldn t be the worst offseason .
pg: nash van exel and the summer league kid
sg:finley bell
sf: dirk howard
pf: raef najera
c: dampier stephania,bradley
when we play our zone we could easily play bradley stephania and dirk together up front and outreboundnearly any other team.

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 02:55 PM
I think were you and I get crossed up is your assumption that the MLE must be spent.

When you have a) have recognized deficiencies, and b) are hopelessly over the salary cap, I think you DO have to use the MLE if you want to get better. And you might have to gamble with the MLE. I'm not suggesting they offer him the entire MLE. But they should be willing to spend quite a bit more than $1.5m for a backup center that can get 7 reb/game in 20 minutes and can bang inside.

I have never suggested that it need be so.

But Donnie Nelson has.

In fact I wish to err on the side of caution regarding this matter. It is irrelevant if we are over the cap at this time. I understand that the MLE is afforded to us due to the fact that we are over the cap and that this is the only reason we have it.

I don't see what we really have to lose, other than Cuban's money. And as I've stated before, I don't care about his money.

Just one more point regarding contradicting myself. Stepania would not be signed by Miami to be the final piece to a championship puzzle. Nor would he be here. I think he could help but towards the ulitimate goal he is a non factor.

One of their stated needs is bulk inside and rebounding inside. He can help substantially in those areas. If nothing else, he adds depth to our front line. I don't see a downside.

Dooby
08-05-2003, 02:56 PM
mikeinrowlett, there is no single player that will ever be made available that will win this team a championship.

This team still doesn't have a starting small forward; still lacks low post scoring; still needs depth; still needs improved defense. First, no one guy can fill all those needs. Second, guys like that are not generally made available via trade or free agency.

This team is not 1 player away. Even so, across all of sports, most teams that think they are one player away, usually find out they need more than that.

mikeinrowlett
08-05-2003, 03:15 PM
I ask myself when considering Stepania....what if Sacramento or Minnesota or Lakers signed him. I'd think to myself....yeah and...so. I'm not sure Step is "the bulk" we are looking for. I think dooby if I got that right has made my point for me. No one player is going to make a difference. So why sign this one?

On a lighter note, I notice KGveteran give Kudos to certain posts. Are these due to the fact that they are thought provoking or due to the fact that they agree with you i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

kg_veteran
08-05-2003, 03:22 PM
No one player is going to make a difference. So why sign this one?

I'll try a third or fourth time: Why sign any player? There is no magical "one missing piece" out there.

On a lighter note, I notice KGveteran give Kudos to certain posts. Are these due to the fact that they are thought provoking or due to the fact that they agree with you

In the particular case you're referring to, both.

Dooby
08-05-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by: mikeinrowlett
I ask myself when considering Stepania....what if Sacramento or Minnesota or Lakers signed him. I'd think to myself....yeah and...so. I'm not sure Step is "the bulk" we are looking for. I think dooby if I got that right has made my point for me. No one player is going to make a difference. So why sign this one?

Then why ever sign anybody? We still need pieces and Stepania may be one piece of the puzzle. Why did we sign Marquis Daniels? Why bother drafting Josh Howard at no. 29? Other than because they are cheap, I mean.

No single move made by SAC over the last few years, or by Minn this year, really scare me. It is the sum total of their moves that made SAC a top team. Casell alone does nothing for me, but Casell, Sprewell, Jim Jackson and Kandi does worry me more than "yeah and...so".

We had holes last year which could have been filled easily, but we chose to ignore them and regretted it all year even though no single move would have put us over the top. Stepania alone doesn't mean much, but Stepania this year, plus Matt Harpring or Donyell Marshall last year, plus ___ next year might scare the tar out of people.


On a lighter note, I notice KGveteran give Kudos to certain posts. Are these due to the fact that they are thought provoking or due to the fact that they agree with you i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Everyone agrees with me because I am always right. If you don't agree with me, I will start typing LOUDER. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Stressboy
08-05-2003, 05:00 PM
Looking at Player splits and so forth, I would take Stepania over Dampier, Foyle or Ostertag which are 3rd tier centers. Stepania looks like he has the ability to avg 6pt and 7brd in 28 minutes for the Mavs. Can he defend? I don't have a clue. If we were a poor shooting team he would avg 8 and 10, but we are not. I would definately give him a try because from what I did see of him against the Mavs, he tears up poor rebounding teams and will help us continue to beat all of the have nots and will probably help against a team like Sac. Lakers, Spurs and Minni are questions, but I say give him 2 years.

4cwebb
08-05-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by: madape
I'd rather have Raef. He's much more athletic. Much more skilled. His upside is much higher.

Miller is a utility man - a lumbering bruising thug. Is he any better than Stepania? Probably not. The numbers say Step is a better rebounder. He's definitely got more range on his shot. Step is taller. He's more skilled. I'm not saying that Step is anything more than a backup center in the West, but that's about all I can say for Miller, too. Raef? I think he has the potential to be a very nice player in this league. We can likely get Step for around $8 mil for two years. Much closer to what he's worth than the ridiculous contract given to Miller.

Seriously, you would rather have Raef, who has shown that he has an inability to effectively play post defense against any premier PF or C in the Western conference, than Brad Miller? Brad Miller, whom the Mavs wanted to acquire, provides the intangibles the Mavs are looking for in a PF or C...he rebounds the ball effectively, he throws his weight around on defense, and he operates effectively out of the high post.

Raef, on the other hand, operates best on offense standing out at the three point line, picks up many silly fouls, and doesn't really rebound to save his own life, forcing Dirk to often collect 20 rebounds in games.

Granted, Miller did a great job in getting $68 million for himself...he's probably being overpaid to play C in the Western conference. But Raef isn't a C in the Western conference. His best years in Denver were playing PF and not guarding the other team's best post player, which is really what the Mavs need. The Mavs need "a lumbering bruising thug".

Also, to say Stepania has an offensive game comparable to Miller's is ridiculous. The guy hasn't shown that he has any offensive capabilities, and that was in the weak Eastern conference. In the West Stepania will be merely a defender and a rebounder...a perfect fit for the Mavs, but Miller would have also added a little offense. The offense Raef adds is the same type of offense Dirk adds, but not half as effectively since Raef doesn't move very well with the ball in his hands.

FilthyFinMavs
08-05-2003, 07:40 PM
Why do we consider Raef and Bradley or even Esch not the centers that are going to save the Mavs? They are all considered soft. Why? Because they don't bang. When you talk about centerse you talk about a guy who can pass out of the post to guys like Dirk or Nash or Fin. This team can benefit so much out of that. Stepania doesn't fit that role. He rebounds well. Popeye rebounded well and the Mavs did not benefit from him. Stepania just another Bradley and Raef that can board. Matter of fact Stepania isn't even as good as Bradley and Raef he just does one thing they don't do very well and thats rebound.

Bayliss
08-05-2003, 08:37 PM
Why do we consider Raef and Bradley or even Esch not the centers that are going to save the Mavs? They are all considered soft. Why? Because they don't bang. When you talk about centerse you talk about a guy who can pass out of the post to guys like Dirk or Nash or Fin. This team can benefit so much out of that. Stepania doesn't fit that role. He rebounds well. Popeye rebounded well and the Mavs did not benefit from him. Stepania just another Bradley and Raef that can board. Matter of fact Stepania isn't even as good as Bradley and Raef he just does one thing they don't do very well and thats rebound.

Step is a much better banger than Raef or Bradley. He will throw his body around to go after the ball. Can you say the same about Raef or Bradley? Has Raefdley ever thrown his body around?

And Stepania might not ever be a superstar. But he does give us a better post defensive option than Raef and Bradley... and he does help with rebounding. Something that Raef cannot do... and something that Bradley can do against weaker competition.

Fah Q
08-05-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by: Bayliss

Why do we consider Raef and Bradley or even Esch not the centers that are going to save the Mavs? They are all considered soft. Why? Because they don't bang. When you talk about centerse you talk about a guy who can pass out of the post to guys like Dirk or Nash or Fin. This team can benefit so much out of that. Stepania doesn't fit that role. He rebounds well. Popeye rebounded well and the Mavs did not benefit from him. Stepania just another Bradley and Raef that can board. Matter of fact Stepania isn't even as good as Bradley and Raef he just does one thing they don't do very well and thats rebound.

Step is a much better banger than Raef or Bradley. He will throw his body around to go after the ball. Can you say the same about Raef or Bradley? Has Raefdley ever thrown his body around?

And Stepania might not ever be a superstar. But he does give us a better post defensive option than Raef and Bradley... and he does help with rebounding. Something that Raef cannot do... and something that Bradley can do against weaker competition.


Bayliss I'm sold (I was already sold). Lets get him. Trouble is that the Mavs seem to have the same thinking(being cheap) as MikeinRowlett.

FilthyFinMavs
08-05-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by: Bayliss

Why do we consider Raef and Bradley or even Esch not the centers that are going to save the Mavs? They are all considered soft. Why? Because they don't bang. When you talk about centerse you talk about a guy who can pass out of the post to guys like Dirk or Nash or Fin. This team can benefit so much out of that. Stepania doesn't fit that role. He rebounds well. Popeye rebounded well and the Mavs did not benefit from him. Stepania just another Bradley and Raef that can board. Matter of fact Stepania isn't even as good as Bradley and Raef he just does one thing they don't do very well and thats rebound.

Step is a much better banger than Raef or Bradley. He will throw his body around to go after the ball. Can you say the same about Raef or Bradley? Has Raefdley ever thrown his body around?

And Stepania might not ever be a superstar. But he does give us a better post defensive option than Raef and Bradley... and he does help with rebounding. Something that Raef cannot do... and something that Bradley can do against weaker competition.



Thats my point. Just because Stepania bangs better than Raef and Bradley doesn't necessarily mean he is a good fit. If your getting rid of Bradley or Esch than you can talk Step but you have 3 centers on this team now that all do something that the other doesn't and thats not what we need. We need just one guy who can bring the bang, rebounding and shot blocking. I think Step is just adding on to the mess at the center position unless you plan on getting rid of one of the centers.

Bayliss
08-05-2003, 10:16 PM
Thats my point. Just because Stepania bangs better than Raef and Bradley doesn't necessarily mean he is a good fit.

But isn't that what we are lacking?I


If your getting rid of Bradley or Esch than you can talk Step but you have 3 centers on this team now that all do something that the other doesn't and thats not what we need.

Actually... what Raef brings we don't need. And Bradley brings something that needs to be as a backup.


We need just one guy who can bring the bang, rebounding and shot blocking.

You will not find one guy to bring all of those things.


I think Step is just adding on to the mess at the center position unless you plan on getting rid of one of the centers.

Why do you have to get rid of one? Isn't Esch going to be on IR like he was all of last year? If Esch is on IR... then that means signing Step would be a very good pickup as a player playing 25 minutes a game as a center.

Rhylan
08-05-2003, 10:21 PM
Can't we just trade for Shaq? Peter Vescey said the Knicks were gonna trade Charlie Ward for Shaq i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Dirk41= konsesjonen
08-05-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by: Rhylan
Can't we just trade for Shaq? Peter Vescey said the Knicks were gonna trade Charlie Ward for Shaq i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Sorry, salaries don't match Rhylan.

Dirk41= konsesjonen
08-05-2003, 10:25 PM
"Why do you have to get rid of one? Isn't Esch going to be on IR like he was all of last year? If Esch is on IR... then that means signing Step would be a very good pickup as a player playing 25 minutes a game as a center. "

My problem is, I could, unfortunately, never see a guy like Nellie play a guy like Step 25 minutes.

Jeremiah
08-06-2003, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Why do we consider Raef and Bradley or even Esch not the centers that are going to save the Mavs? They are all considered soft. Why? Because they don't bang. When you talk about centerse you talk about a guy who can pass out of the post to guys like Dirk or Nash or Fin. This team can benefit so much out of that. Stepania doesn't fit that role. He rebounds well. Popeye rebounded well and the Mavs did not benefit from him. Stepania just another Bradley and Raef that can board. Matter of fact Stepania isn't even as good as Bradley and Raef he just does one thing they don't do very well and thats rebound.

I consider them centers that will not save the Mavs because they are either not skilled enough to do so, or are not confident enough to use their skill. Whether Stepania is either of those things, I don't know.

mikeinrowlett
08-06-2003, 07:51 AM
Cheap? Mark Cuban.....be cheap? Are the Jail Blazers cheap? Making some bad decisions and trying to make sure they don't happen again (signing step) is not being cheap it is being prudent. I don't care how much money Mark Cuban loses but I do care if he decides that decisions in the past and now in the present effect the futures moves of this team.

As Tom Hicks how bad decisions can effect all of that. He wants to win but reality has set in. I think this is true for Cuban as well.

4cwebb
08-06-2003, 08:08 AM
Another point to consider in comparing Cuban and Hicks is how big contracts are weighing down their respective franchises. A-Rod is the best all around player in baseball, but he wasn't (and isn't) worth $250 million over 10 years. Raef's contract has had the same chilling effect on Cuban...he has made mistakes in the past, and now he is a little more hesitant to throw money around...no crime there. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but I think each contract is having a similar effect.

OutletPass
08-06-2003, 09:57 AM
Stolen from one of Madape's posts in "around the NBA" :

Stepania, 27, second in the league in rebounds per 48 minutes, made $1.35 million last year. Fleisher (his agent) compared Stepania's numbers to Elden Campbell's, who signed a two-year deal worth a reported $8.4 million with the Pistons.

Step...5.6 ppg; 7rpg with an 9.24 efficiency rating. 20.2 minutes....

So what kind of contract should he really get ? Not advocating that we sign him, just asking a question...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I went to NBA.com yesterday and used their "comaparison " feature....I HAVE NOT included blocks per game...Step is under . 5 per game and the others are well above that...no comparison...his shooting % is also pretty bad for a 5....


A comparison to Adonal Foyle..5.4 ppg; 6 rpg and an 11.52 efficieny rating. 21.8 minutes
Adonal Foyle $4,400,000

A comparison to Dampier:
Dampier...8.2 ppg; 6.6 rpg and a 12.35 efficiency rating. 24 minutes
Erick Dampier $7,842,000

A comparison to Nesterovic:
Nesterovic: 11.2 ppg; 6.5 rpg and a 14.9 efficiency rating. 30.4 minutes
Nesterovic: (new contract) 6 years for $42 million

A comparison to Kandi:
Kandi....12.3 ppg; 9.10 rpg and a 14.69 efficiency rating. 38 minutes
Kandi...(new contract) 3 years for $16.2 million.

And finally, a comparison to Shawn:
Shawn...6.7 ppg; 5.9 ppg and a 12.75 efficiency rating. 21.4 minutes.
Shawn Bradley .............. $4,000,000 (as reported by Patricia's for last year)

So let's just say that we DO sign Stepania....

What should he be paid ?

Rod1975
08-06-2003, 10:34 AM
I simply can't believe we're even discussing signing <u>Vladimir Stepania</u>.....jeez we're desperate.
He's OK, the only difference I see between him and a guy like Esch is his athleticism.

Sure why not, it could'nt hurt to sign him. He has size and athleticism, and you can't teach that.

FilthyFinMavs
08-06-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by: Bayliss

Thats my point. Just because Stepania bangs better than Raef and Bradley doesn't necessarily mean he is a good fit.

But isn't that what we are lacking?I


If your getting rid of Bradley or Esch than you can talk Step but you have 3 centers on this team now that all do something that the other doesn't and thats not what we need.

Actually... what Raef brings we don't need. And Bradley brings something that needs to be as a backup.


We need just one guy who can bring the bang, rebounding and shot blocking.

You will not find one guy to bring all of those things.


I think Step is just adding on to the mess at the center position unless you plan on getting rid of one of the centers.

Why do you have to get rid of one? Isn't Esch going to be on IR like he was all of last year? If Esch is on IR... then that means signing Step would be a very good pickup as a player playing 25 minutes a game as a center.



You have to get rid of one because you are full of centers who don't bring anything to the table. Bradley, Stepania and Esch are all backup centers. We are going to have a mess at that center position and alot of money tied up into underachievers. You can find a guy in this league who can bang, shot block and rebound. You won't find one who can shot block, rebound and bang exceptionally well but you can find one. Dampier is what I have in mind. Foyle fits that description but not sure if he is on the market. Stepania just isn't that guy. I think the Mavs have took the approach of "Well this center is better than the one we currently have so lets go after him" when they see big men and that needs to stop. Just because Stepania is out there doesn't mean the Mavs should sign him. His rebounding stats in 48 minutes look good but he isn't going to be playing 48 minutes here.

Chiwas
08-06-2003, 04:21 PM
What should he be paid ?
A couple of season tickets in the Platinum section, all we can afford.

ZueriMav
08-12-2003, 07:55 AM
Just found on DFW.com Didn't want to make an extra thread of it. Some interesting comments of Donny: "Guys, take it easy: The off season has just started i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif "


_________________________________


Posted on Tue, Aug. 12, 2003 storyi/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gifUB_DESC
Mavericks considering Stepania or a trade
By Art Garcia
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

The Mavericks remain interested in free agent Vladimir Stepania and might sign him, according to league sources, if they can't trade for a big man soon.

Among the possible trade targets for the Mavs are Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Kurt Thomas, Vitali Potopenko, Brian Grant, Eric Dampier, Adonal Foyle, Danny Fortson and Marcus Camby.

Two bigger-name big men, Rasheed Wallace and Kenyon Martin, are not realistic targets for the Mavs, sources said.

Wallace is on the trading block in Portland, and Martin has said he wants to be traded. However, Wallace's contract (worth more than $15 million next season) and Martin's situation (he's a restricted free agent after the season and the Nets likely want to throw high-priced Dikembe Mutombo into any trade) make the chances of the Mavs dealing for either slim.

Mavs president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said the team is in no hurry to make a trade.

"It's a waiting game," Nelson said Monday from Lithuania. "Each team has a different set of circumstances. There are times when you think you're close to something and someone gets cold feet, the deal is too rich or someone throws a zinger into it.

"It's so tough to predict what's going to happen."

As far as available big men go, Stepania is probably at the top of what remains on the free-agent market. The 7-foot-1, 255-pounder just completed his fifth season in the league and averaged a career-best 7.0 rebounds per game for Miami.

Stepania, who made $1.35 million last season, is seeking a multi-year deal. Several teams, in addition to the Mavs, have shown preliminary interest.

"We've been in touch with Dallas," said Mark Fleisher, Stepania's agent. "They've expressed interest, and we've agreed to continue talking."

Nelson said the perception around the league that the Mavs are desperate to make a move for a low-post presence has affected negotiations.

"Everyone thinks we're desperate. We're not desperate," said Nelson, who returns from a coaching stint with the Lithuanian national team Friday. "We're ready to go to war with what we have. We're a good team, and we're not going to get pushed into a corner.

"We don't need to make a deal. Our best tactic may be to keep this team together and see what we have at the trading deadline. Pressure is self-inflicted, and we're feeling no pressure."

Nelson said the Mavericks would prefer to keep Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel together. But he said no player is off-limits.

"To get better you have to trade significant pieces to get significant pieces, usually," Nelson said. "In some form or fashion, everyone's name gets thrown into a scenario. That's the way the game is played.

"Of course, our preference is to keep the core together. But it's not like that's going to prevent us for making a deal that makes sense."

The Mavs are scheduled to resume talks with free agent Raja Bell after Nelson returns. Herb Rudoy, Bell's agent, said negotiations have gone slowly.

"Right now their offer is not very satisfactory," Rudoy said. "We're going to continue talking to other teams.

"Donnie and I have agreed to talk next week. Raja really wants to come back to Dallas. We'll just see what happens."

In his first season with the team, the defensive-minded swingman proved a valuable contributor, starting 32 times. Utah, Atlanta and San Antonio are also believed to have interest in Bell.

Insurance issues bug Cuban

Before the World Championships last summer, Mark Cuban voiced concern over the lack adequate insurance covering Mavericks playing in the tournament. Michael Finley and Raef LaFrentz (Team USA) and Dirk Nowitzki (Germany) participated.

Steve Nash (Canada) and Eduardo Najera (Mexico) are scheduled to play in an Olympic qualifying tournament that begins Aug. 20 in Puerto Rico. The Mavs' owner said his position on insurance covering his investments in players hasn't changed.

"Reggie Miller last year was the perfect example of why I am concerned," Cuban said. "Unfortunately, I have no say in the matter at all."

Miller sprained an ankle last summer playing for Team USA and missed the first 14 games of the NBA season.

Maringa
08-12-2003, 09:20 AM
Sounds like the Mavs will have to overpay Stepania in order to obtain his services. The Mavs have lost all bargaining power. At this point, the Mavs should just tell his agent to call back when he gets all the offers from other teams to see if they are willing to match or improve. The Mavs shouldn't panic like they did with Evan Eschmeyer...I can't justify paying Stepania more than $2 million/year, 3 yrs. There will be other free agents, rookies, mid-season trades that will make better sense, during the upcoming season or off-season a year from now...

Simon2
08-12-2003, 09:27 AM
STepania is going to help. I would rather have him than Bradley or Esch.

signoftimes
08-12-2003, 09:34 AM
Nelson said the perception around the league that the Mavs are desperate to make a move for a low-post presence has affected negotiations.

"Everyone thinks we're desperate. We're not desperate," said Nelson, who returns from a coaching stint with the Lithuanian national team Friday

The reason everyone thinks the Mav's are desperate, is because they only had one plan, ZO. When that fell apart they did look desperate, calling on every available FA they could think of.

Mavs_Rule2003
08-12-2003, 10:08 AM
[i]
"Everyone thinks we're desperate. We're not desperate," said Nelson,[i]

Yeah! that looks like it all the way! BUt Nellie, whats your point?

Chiwas
08-12-2003, 10:18 AM
On a lighter note, I notice KGveteran give Kudos to certain posts. Are these due to the fact that they are thought provoking or due to the fact that they agree with you i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Hehehe, I haven't noticed this. You're clever, mikeinrowlett, and learning quick about the connections. Keep doing it.

Getting in topic, what was the ZO plan? I don't remember well but did it include to pay him the 4.8 exception?

I mean, I think it wasn't even a plan. Yes, he said "yes" but not "when".

As MFF has suggested, we only can afford "plans" for drafted or rookies. Or old not good veterans.

Or renting them.

MavsFanFinley
08-12-2003, 10:47 AM
Nothing new in this article that we haven't heard already.

Same tune, different day.

Tony tha Mavs fan
08-12-2003, 11:04 AM
Stepania does good work, isn't obsessed with taking jumpers,PLAYS HARD, and isn't on the IR all the time. Stepania should be a taller version of Eddie Najera, and thats what the Mavs need, someone who concentrates on rebounding and defense, and has no problem letting his teammates get the points.

XERXES
08-12-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by: Simon2
STepania is going to help. I would rather have him than Bradley or Esch.

I'd rather bring James Donaldson back than count on Bradley and Esch.

Mavsgreatness
08-12-2003, 05:55 PM
Does anyone have any news on Stepania? I think he would be a nice addition

Nicky31
08-14-2003, 04:24 PM
I hope they get Stephania. He is probably one of the best backup center's as far as rebounding goes. I'm sure the Mav's staff can help him with his offense, but he would be a big body that would move Raef Lafrenz to PF...

one long blue sock
08-14-2003, 06:13 PM
He would be an ok addition, but not good enough to get more then 4.5, the Mavs already have 3 back up centers.

steponhens
08-14-2003, 07:30 PM
I don't think the Mavs should sign Stepania. He would barely help the Mavs, if at all.

I don't get why everybody is on board with signing him. It seems you are all so desperate to make a move your becoming high. With almost every other player in the eastern conference getting bashed on this board simply for playing in the east, when you think you have a chance of signing one he is considered a great pickup.

He only grabs seven rebounds per game in the east, while not having to gaurd the other teams best post player, and Brian Grant gaurds the other teams best player, no matter how tall he is. Also, he plays for the Heat, one of the biggest bricklayers in the NBA. They have many more chances at rebounds than teams that can shoot the ball.

All in all, I don't see how a player that could only play 20 minutes a game against the easts second tier big men bang with the power players from the west.

I don't think he could help us when the playoffs come around, and when adding a player to a sixty win team, thats all that matters.

one long blue sock
08-14-2003, 07:57 PM
Well the Mavs are under the roster limit with letting Griffin, Williams, Jones, and Bell go.

They need someone to sign, and since they have added Daniels and Howard, I think they have enough depth in the back court.

But signing Stepania would allow Bradley and Raef to play in the game at the same time. For being a backup, and averaging 7.00 rebounds a game would make the Mavs alot better. With the line-up of 2 of those 3 in the games, the other players would have to worry about them alot more, and stop focusing on Dirk's attempt for the rebounds, so he would probably get a better number.

Having said that, he isn't worth more then 4 mill.

S'nasty13
08-14-2003, 11:38 PM
Money is the problem for the Mavs. Mark Cuban doesn't want to shell out 8 mil on a could be, Mark wants a sure thing. He offered Zo and Malone the MLE b/c he wants to save money from the luxary tax. I say trade raef and AJ for two or three role players. I am thinking why not deepen the bench. Make some cap room to get great players next year.

one long blue sock
08-14-2003, 11:41 PM
Well they just let 4 role players go, and Raef AJ are role players.

They need an impact player at center, they have enough role players.

Mandyahl
08-14-2003, 11:41 PM
there is not going to be cap room next year or even the next year. we are way over it.

one long blue sock
08-14-2003, 11:43 PM
MLE? He is asking for 4 mil

OutletPass
08-14-2003, 11:58 PM
there is not going to be cap room next year or even the next year. we are way over it.

Absolutely fact, Mandy. Unless we unload Raef, Taw, NVE, etc...and don't resign Nash...ROFLMAO

so yes...we're going to be capped out.

Refer to my previous post in this thread....if the Mavs were to make a move for him...what should he be paid ? The closest comparison that I could find (and, admittedly it's not the closest comparison) among the so-called "availables" is Adonal Foyle...and that's a 4.4 mil contract....

My suspicion is that Stepania looks for that exact kind of money....(MLE type money)....it's just a question of whether he gets it from someone or not. I don't think he deserves that...but someone may bite.

Just211
08-15-2003, 12:03 AM
who besides Dallas is really interested in stephania? If Miami renounced him, and is low balling him, then why would Dallas pay over 4 mil for him?
I say no more than 2 mil for this guy, unless more teams step up to his plate.

MavsFanFinley
08-15-2003, 12:08 AM
Utah is looking at centers and can certainly offer more than what teams consider he's worth. I thought I read about Denver looking at him as well.

jayC
08-15-2003, 08:53 AM
IfLook raef will continue to be the starter. He had a solid game against san antonio in game 6 of the conference finals 12points and 10 boards, I also remember a couple of five block performances. Sign stepania and Jimmy Jackson. If he fills a need he needs to be here.

Nash/nick.daniels
finley/howard
Jackson/finley
Dirk/Raef
Stepania/Bradley

Upgrade your guard small forward with jimmy jackson instead of raja bell. Jimmy is just as good of a defender, a good post player, and a good shooter.

Chiwas
08-15-2003, 09:44 AM
The empty hand of Cuban attacks again.

http://www.hairtech.net/Graphics/grab.gif

Mavsgreatness
08-15-2003, 03:48 PM
I heard a rumor that our offer was 3 mil for 2 years, that's a decent deal for him

Rod1975
08-21-2003, 05:22 PM
Given the recent developments, Esch and Pop gone, also Best coming over from the Heat, who else besides me thinks we can still get Stepania away from the Heat to sign for the LLE (or a split of the MLE how ever it may work out as long as it's not Esch type money) and be the 3rd center?
I think we can get a decent value with this guy if we can in fact steal another player away from Miami....

kg_veteran
08-21-2003, 05:22 PM
I don't think the Mavs are interested in Stepania at this point.

Rod1975
08-21-2003, 05:45 PM
Yeah and a week ago nobody thought we were interested in Travis best either....

Miami since they are in the size-starved east, find themselves in the midst of a frontline logjam, and with the departure of Best they are going to have to fill a need at PG.

Stepania could just slip thru the cracks....the heat have signed 3 big guys and already have 3 other FA big guys, an unsigned draft pick, Ken Johnson,not to mention Brian Grant.

We could steal him away, he's already a journeyman, so I'm betting he's not exactly attached to Miami. Also if the Heat land Odom, their next step would be signing a PG (which they are now in dire need of).

Epitome22
08-21-2003, 06:16 PM
Stepania is a guy I wouldn't mind being a Mav at all. He has almost no skills but he does have size and he can at least rebound. From what I have seen of him, he's certainly tougher than Raef or Bradley ( I know that isn't saying much but still) Trade Raef and Bradley for Stepania.

nowitzki_prophecy
08-21-2003, 06:22 PM
Stepania is a guy I wouldn't mind being a Mav at all. He has almost no skills but he does have size and he can at least rebound. From what I have seen of him, he's certainly tougher than Raef or Bradley ( I know that isn't saying much but still) Trade Raef and Bradley for Stepania.

Shocks,that means Step will be signed to a near max contracti/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif
Step would be a great pick for 1-2.5 Mil a year,he's defenitly worh it,but i think Donnie and the rest are pretty content with the 5 spot.
The efforts are aimed at a back-up PG right now,but i still think a trade at the dead line is a very strong option.

Rod1975
08-21-2003, 06:43 PM
The efforts are aimed at a back-up PG right now,but i still think a trade at the dead line is a very strong option.

Umm, Travis Best is'nt enough of a backup PG?

nowitzki_prophecy
08-21-2003, 06:51 PM
Umm, Travis Best is'nt enough of a backup PG?

hua????Did the man signed a contract?exactly,so until than,we're looking for a back-up PG.

Rod1975
08-21-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by: nowitzki_prophecy

Umm, Travis Best is'nt enough of a backup PG?

hua????Did the man signed a contract?exactly,so until than,we're looking for a back-up PG.

It's a done deal...press conference tomorrow at 12 noon CST.

kg_veteran
08-21-2003, 09:18 PM
Rod - I agree the Mavs <u>could</u> acquire Stepania. I just don't know that they want to at this point. I don't think they believe there is a place in the rotation for him at this point.


Man, what's that smell? Oh, it's just Epitome posting again.

Simon2
10-12-2003, 05:21 PM
Looks like Stepania is going to Croatia?

Stepania goes to Croatia (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-heat12oct12,0,1444392.story?coll=sfla-sports-heat)

Surely the Mavs have tried to get this guy? Doesn't his 7 rebounds a game count for anything? Stepania can become another head in the center monster. Actually, Raef can slip to backup 4 while Stepania, Fortson, Bradley forms the 3 headed monster. Raef can also pitch in if they need a center to hit the outside shot.

MavsFanFinley
10-12-2003, 06:17 PM
I'm surprised by this. It's a great deal for him as he can terminate the deal and return to the NBA at anytime. Make some money and keep playing basketball.

It's a shame he didn't take the 1 year, $3 million dollar offer from the Heat. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

one long blue sock
10-12-2003, 06:38 PM
well I'm sure there is more reason to going to Croatia then money, alot of teams would be willing to spend more then 1 mil. I think his foot was padded.

Drbio
10-12-2003, 07:12 PM
Didn't one of our great posters here predict that he could overseas a while back?


Why yes....I think so. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

grbh
10-20-2003, 09:15 AM
Bump, I think it might be time to make a call

Max Power
10-20-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by: grbh
Bump, I think it might be time to make a call

We definitely need another body at center right now unless there is another trade in the works.

LRB
10-20-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: grbh
Bump, I think it might be time to make a call

We definitely need another body at center right now unless there is another trade in the works.

I totally agree. Although we can take a little time here. We can survive in the regular season with some of Nellie's trickery, but we can't do this in the post season. We need that big body in time to get him in step with the team for the post season.

XERXES
11-07-2003, 03:46 PM
What gives? I saw this dude playing "major minutes" with the Blazers the other day! How is he good enough to play 30-35 minutes for the Blazers but not good enough to be our 15th man?

Charlie Brown
11-07-2003, 03:49 PM
what use would nellie have with a center who rebounds and plays d???

i mean, he can't even shoot 3's for crying out loud . . .

Dirkenstien
11-07-2003, 03:57 PM
How has he been doing with the blazers so far? ..as far as stats go

kingrex
11-07-2003, 04:06 PM
Step's number this year:

Total stats after 4 games
8 points
2 blocks
5 assists
10 rebs
3 turnovers

Dirkenstien
11-07-2003, 04:12 PM
hmm.. how do these compare with our overall center's stats so far this season?

kingrex
11-07-2003, 04:16 PM
Depends, if you're comparing it to Dirk, who's been starting at center, then it blows Steps stats away.

Please, Steps not the answer for this team.

Dirkenstien
11-07-2003, 04:27 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of bradley and fortson. I agree he's not the answer, however i was supposing him as the secondary center ..placing him not as "the answer" but perhaps as a piece of the answer.

madape
11-07-2003, 04:37 PM
Interior defense and rebounding have not been the problem thus far... especially during those times when Nelson employs his bigger lineups. There is nothing to warrant an assumption that Step, Mourning, Mutombo, or anyone would get more time than Shawn Bradley has to this point, and there is nothing to suggest that they would have done any better than Shaws has up to now. The problems on this team right now are offensive. Stepania does nothing to address that.

Joey
11-07-2003, 07:19 PM
I agree Ape and getting through the growing pains will work out the offensive kinks. Remember the Mavs are the greatest O on earth!

Dirkenstien
11-08-2003, 02:36 PM
I saw step play last night and he looked absolutely terrible. I'm very pleased in the decision not to pick him up because he is a big body.

bernardos70
11-08-2003, 06:31 PM
Offtopic, but during the game last nite George Karl said, after Wallace went on a fast break and shot a quick three: "Everytime I see Wallace shoot a 3, I think of him in a Dallas Mavericks uniform." The announcer next to him says "what are you talking about, he's in a Blazers uniform. Do you have any inside information?" to which Karl responds "I don't think so, I just think of him as the big man Dallas is looking for." Hmmmm...

Max Power
11-08-2003, 07:03 PM
Thats being talked to death in the new section "Trade and draft board"