PDA

View Full Version : kobe's hearing part2


superheadcat
10-15-2003, 05:26 PM
don't want to bump a thread already too long, neither want to credit another thread built on rumors.

now here it goes (where is op when we need him?)

Judge postpones ruling on Bryant sex assault case
Decision about trial will be announced next week
From Gary Tuchman
CNN


EAGLE, Colorado (CNN) --A Colorado judge will decide next week whether basketball star Kobe Bryant should stand trial on a sexual assault charge after Bryant's lawyers raised questions about the alleged victim's sexual history in a preliminary hearing Wednesday.

Defense lawyers argued in court papers that they have "compelling evidence" of Bryant's innocence, and spent about two hours Wednesday cross-examining a detective who investigated the case. But Eagle County, Colorado, District Attorney Mark Hurlbert said judges require only a "very low standard" to move the case forward.

"I am confident the judge will find probable cause and will bind this case over, and I am confident in the people's case versus Kobe Bryant," Hurlbert said at a news conference following Wednesday's hearing.

Judge Frederick Gannett said he would issue a ruling no earlier than Monday.

The two-day preliminary hearing had been interrupted last week after Bryant's lawyer, Pamela Mackey, suggested the alleged victim's injuries were consistent with having sex with three men in three days.

Doug Winters, an Eagle County sheriff's detective, testified that the underwear the woman wore to a hospital the day she went to police contained DNA material that came from someone other than Bryant. He said the alleged victim told him she had had sex with a different man three days before the day she alleges Bryant raped her.

Winters said none of Bryant's clothes had any rips or tears, and investigators found no marks on Bryant that would indicate someone had resisted a sexual assault. But Hurlbert said the woman had a bruise on her jaw from Bryant's thumb.

Hurlbert dismissed defense arguments that the case against Bryant was weak, saying, "No prosecutor puts on their whole case at a preliminary hearing."

In court papers filed Tuesday night, his office accused Mackey of trying to smear the alleged victim by making a "conscious misrepresentation of the evidence." But defense lawyers said evidence "from the prosecution's own laboratory" has been submitted in a sealed motion that could clear the NBA All-Star.

Bryant, a guard for the Los Angeles Lakers, is accused of sexually assaulting the woman on June 30. The alleged victim was a clerk at a mountain lodge in Edwards, Colorado, west of the Vail ski resort, where Bryant was a guest.

Bryant faces one count of felony sexual assault, which carries a maximum sentence of life in prison. Bryant, who is married with a young daughter, has acknowledged having sex with the woman who accuses him of raping her, but insists it was consensual.

Last week, Winters testified that blood from the woman who has accused Bryant was found on the defendant's T-shirt. Winters said the woman told him that she and Bryant flirted when they first met and engaged in mutual kissing later, but that he wouldn't stop when she tried to refuse to his attempts to go further.

Winters said the woman reported that she was scared, and that Bryant grabbed her with both hands around her neck. He then forced her over a chair and, despite her protests, raped her, the detective said the woman told authorities, and then told her repeatedly not to tell anyone about it.

In addition to raising the alleged victim's sexual history, Mackey also named the woman six times in open court last week after being warned not to do so. She referred to her only as "the accuser" during Wednesday's proceedings.

Prosecution sought closed hearing
In addition to raising the question of sexual activity by the alleged victim, Mackey last week also named the woman six times in open court last week after being warned not to do so. (Last week's hearing)

Such behavior led prosecutors on Tuesday to charge that Bryant's defense team was making a "conscious misrepresentation of the evidence in order to smear the victim publicly." Prosecutors

Gannett met with lawyers from both sides for about an hour and a half Wednesday before resuming the preliminary hearing. Colorado's rape shield law allows few exceptions to the prohibition against unrelated details of the alleged victim's sexual or mental health history to be allowed in court. (More on the law)

David Lugert, a former Colorado prosecutor turned defense attorney, said Mackey's conduct in court last week was a show of force on Bryant's behalf. "She was sending a message to the public that she's going to zealously represent her client and pull out all the stops in doing so," Lugert said.

Linda Fairstein, a former sex crime prosecutor in the New York district attorney's office, said Mackey could face sanctions from the judge after last week's proceedings.

"The old question used to be, a defense attorney would say, 'And sir, when did you stop beating your wife?' It would imply that it had ever occurred," she said. "If this is just a really tasteless, baseless attempt to make her look promiscuous, and there's no basis in fact for it, the judge may find that Miss Mackey is in contempt."

LRB
10-15-2003, 05:42 PM
There's just way too many rumors flying around about this case. And many of the rumors are masquarading as established facts. I sincerely hope that the judge cracks down on the gag order and strictly enforces it on both sides. I don't want to see another OJ Simpson 3 ring Circus trial.

Chiwas
10-15-2003, 06:54 PM
I will repeat an old unaswered question:

What would the girl win acussing Kobe falsely of rape?

According to an answer to an earlier question from me, they, Kobe and the girl can't, in this stage or farther- negotiate an (economic or other type) agreement to dismiss the case. And now it is very risky for her to change her legal declarations.

I mean, if she was looking for money from Kobe, she had negotiated it before.

And I don't think, not even remotely, that the girl only wants to be famous.

Also I haven't heard anything that could make us suspect vengeance.

Thus, what would the girl win -obtain, gain- acussing Kobe falsely of rape?

LRB
10-15-2003, 07:01 PM
What would the girl win acussing Kobe falsely of rape?

It's a false myth that lots of women press false rape charges whether to get the public attention or to get revenge on the accused. I posted several articles in the other Kobe thread which talk about this false myth and the prevalence of it throughout society.

MavsFanFinley
10-15-2003, 07:08 PM
What would the girl win acussing Kobe falsely of rape?

She could gain a lot of money. If Kobe is found guilty or not, she can file a civil suit and win big there.

LRB
10-15-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley

What would the girl win acussing Kobe falsely of rape?

She could gain a lot of money. If Kobe is found guilty or not, she can file a civil suit and win big there.

She wouldn't really need Kobe to be found guilty. OJ wasn't found guilty and he was sued civily.
Civil suits depend on a preponderance of the evidence instead of beyond a reasonable doubt as do criminal cases.

superheadcat
10-16-2003, 07:29 PM
a nice summary of what we know by far:

Key points & what's next in the Bryant case
(Denver Post)
Thursday, October 16, 2003 -

The two-day preliminary hearing in the Kobe Bryant sex-assault case allowed both the prosecution and the defense to lay out what they see as the key information about Bryant, his accuser and what allegedly happened the night of June 30.

Prosecution points

The woman's testimony. The 19-year-old told investigators that she was grabbed by the throat and forced over a chair, where Bryant lifted her skirt, pulled down her panties and sexually assaulted her.

Sexual-assault exams. Both the woman and Bryant submitted to exams and turned clothing over to investigators. Although Bryant claims the sexual encounter was consensual, she suffered injuries to her vaginal area that officials say resulted from nonconsensual sex. Additionally, her blood was found inside her panties and on the inside front of his T-shirt.

Bryant's comments. Kept secret during the preliminary hearing, a conversation with Bryant that was surreptitiously recorded by investigators that legal experts presume includes his initial denial of a sexual encounter. It may at some point be ruled admissible in court.

Other witnesses. Prosecutors want to present at least one "outcry" witness who will attest to the woman's demeanor before and after the incident, and have lined up a slate of experts to discuss injuries she did or did not receive.

Defense points

The woman's testimony. According to a sheriff's detective, the woman admitted to flirting with Bryant, going to his room with the expectation that he would "put a move" on her, and participating in consensual hugging and kissing. Also, she initially did not recall telling Bryant "no" and said he stopped the alleged attack when she resisted.

Sexual-assault exams. Although the panties that the woman was wearing at the time of the incident and the inside front of Bryant's shirt carried her blood on them, a different pair of panties she wore the next day contained semen and pubic hair from another man, and defense attorneys want to show that her injuries could have been caused by sex with someone else.

Bryant's comments. If the case goes to trial, Bryant has the right to take the stand and explain his side of the story. As a high-profile and very popular athlete, he is likely to command a certain amount of respect and admiration.

Other witnesses. A night auditor at the hotel wrote to investigators that the woman returned from Bryant's room after only 10 minutes and did not indicate there was any trouble. She finished her work for the shift as normal.

WHAT'S NEXT

If Judge Frederick Gannett decides to bind over the Bryant case for trial in district court, the next step in the case will be an arraignment, at which Bryant will enter a plea and a trial date will be set.

If the case is not bound over, prosecutors have 10 days to get the approval of a judge to file the case directly in district court. Such a move is rare following a preliminary hearing where not enough evidence was found to bind over a case.

Chiwas
10-16-2003, 08:11 PM
a different pair of panties she wore the next day contained semen and pubic hair from another man,

1.- How did the defense know it?

In case it is true, it would be necessary to hear the declaration of the other man, I think. And the girl's after. Was there semen of that man in the first -day- examination?


A night auditor at the hotel wrote to investigators that the woman returned from Bryant's room after only 10 minutes and did not indicate there was any trouble. She finished her work for the shift as normal.

2.- Didn't exist another person who claim exactly the opposite or he/she is the same with a different position?


Kept secret during the preliminary hearing, a conversation with Bryant that was surreptitiously recorded by investigators that legal experts presume includes his initial denial of a sexual encounter. It may at some point be ruled admissible in court.

3.- Wouldn't it prove that he lied at some point and could be lying at the rest? Edit: Or that he changed his testimony according to a defense tactic?


Also, she initially did not recall telling Bryant "no" and said he stopped the alleged attack when she resisted.


4.- I don't remember to have read that in her testimony.

ReDIRKulous
10-16-2003, 08:27 PM
This is kind of off topic... but I am wondering what is wrong with Kobe.. in an article I was reading it said that Kobe was very distant from his fellow teammates and he didn't have any friends other than his wife. But then not too long ago Kobe started being buddy buddy with his body guards and they would go bungee jumping and that kind of thing.

So anyway... my question is... why would Kobe hang out with his body guards but not his fellow teammates?

LRB
10-16-2003, 08:58 PM
Also, she initially did not recall telling Bryant "no" and said he stopped the alleged attack when she resisted.

This is standard for people in shock which a high percent of rape victims are. This would actually work to substantiate that she was bringing a false charge since most women who do bring false charges are characterized by having almost all the facts of their story straight versus real rape victims who often have discrepancies in their inituial statements because of shock.

MavsFanFinley
10-16-2003, 11:19 PM
What would the girl win acussing Kobe falsely of rape?

Besides possibly winning money, she shows the world that Kobe is not the squeaky clean guy he claims to be. We now know he's cheated on his wife and it throws doubts out there about what kind of man he really is. He's still going to make millions of dollars and get to play the game he loves, but people will definitely look at him differently.

It obviously screws with evidence the prosecution might have, but I just don't care if she had sex with a dozen guys before the night with Bryant. If she said no to him, that's what matters. It's sad that already many are questioning her story now that they know she had sex with another guy a few days before.

LRB
10-16-2003, 11:41 PM
It's sad that already many are questioning her story now that they know she had sex with another guy a few days before.


This is a major difference in armed robbery. They don't question whether someone was really robbed if they had sex 3 times in the 24 hours before the incident. Society just doesn't want to believe that women get raped unless they "deserve" it. It much easier to believe a woman is falsely accusing someone than to believe that she was actually raped. Sad but true.

WayOutWest
10-17-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by: LRB

It's sad that already many are questioning her story now that they know she had sex with another guy a few days before.


This is a major difference in armed robbery. They don't question whether someone was really robbed if they had sex 3 times in the 24 hours before the incident. Society just doesn't want to believe that women get raped unless they "deserve" it. It much easier to believe a woman is falsely accusing someone than to believe that she was actually raped. Sad but true.

The previous sexual encounter arguements are not about weather or not she was raped, it's about who caused the vaginal tears. They are not trying to knock the whole case out of the park with that logic, they are just trying to remove one of the prosections building blocks, i.e. the vaginal tears.

kg_veteran
10-17-2003, 09:53 AM
Sexual-assault exams. Although the panties that the woman was wearing at the time of the incident and the inside front of Bryant's shirt carried her blood on them, a different pair of panties she wore the next day contained semen and pubic hair from another man, and defense attorneys want to show that her injuries could have been caused by sex with someone else.

The evidence regarding the "different pair of panties" is going to be inadmissible. That is, unless the defense can come up with the "semen donor" as a witness and he can testify that a) it's his semen in her underwear, b) they had sex shortly before she had sex with Kobe Bryant, and c) their sex was rough enough to cause vaginal tears.

You be the judge of whether that's likely to happen or not.

LRB
10-17-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Sexual-assault exams. Although the panties that the woman was wearing at the time of the incident and the inside front of Bryant's shirt carried her blood on them, a different pair of panties she wore the next day contained semen and pubic hair from another man, and defense attorneys want to show that her injuries could have been caused by sex with someone else.

The evidence regarding the "different pair of panties" is going to be inadmissible. That is, unless the defense can come up with the "semen donor" as a witness and he can testify that a) it's his semen in her underwear, b) they had sex shortly before she had sex with Kobe Bryant, and c) their sex was rough enough to cause vaginal tears.

You be the judge of whether that's likely to happen or not.


Thanks KG for giving us the sage advice from one of our legal professional members. It's always nice to hear from you, Dooby, OP, and any other in the legal profession. Although we all have opinions as laymen, all too often our views are clouded by the unrealities of the courtroom as presented by the media and by Hollywood.

WayOutWest
10-18-2003, 11:44 PM
I have a question about double jepardy (I suck at spelling).

You can't be tride for the same crime twice if you're found "not guilty" the first time thru BUT

Can Kobe be retrided if the case doesnt' go to trial this time around, say for instance some new evidence or testimony were to become available? Of course this is assuming it does NOT go to trial at this point in time.

Thanks.

Drbio
10-18-2003, 11:48 PM
WOW- it is my understanding that if the judge rules that there is not enough evidence to proceed to trial and other evidence subsequently becomes available that was not available at the time of the ruling, that the prosecution can refile without douby jeopardy. You better wait on kg, OP or one those guys though.

EricaLubarsky
10-18-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio
WOW- it is my understanding that if the judge rules that there is not enough evidence to proceed to trial and other evidence subsequently becomes available that was not available at the time of the ruling, that the prosecution can refile without douby jeopardy. You better wait on kg, OP or one those guys though.

I thought it had to be tried to be follow the double jeopardy rules. Dropping the case isnt trying him so I dont see why they couldnt open the case later, but with rape it is not going to get tried again if the judge drops it. There can't be new evidence, right?. The most they could hope for is to get another judge in an appeal who would let the case be tried.

Someone who actually knows this stuff?