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Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 06:27 PM
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakerep21oct21,1,917800.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers

Kobe Bryant said Monday afternoon that the legal events of recent months had not changed his mind, and that he would opt out of his Laker contract at the end of the season.

Bryant has the choice of playing for the Lakers next season for $14.6 million or becoming an unrestricted free agent. Karl Malone, Gary Payton and Derek Fisher have the same contract options and Shaquille O'Neal could become a free agent after next season.

Coach Phil Jackson has one season remaining on his contract and, according to Jackson, there have been no recent negotiations on an extension.

Conversely, the Lakers offered Bryant a three-year, $54.8 million extension more than a year ago and that offer, according to club sources, remains on the table. Bryant now qualifies for a four-year extension under the collective bargaining agreement.

"We'll just stay in the moment, just appreciate every day and every game, go from there," he said.

Later, on the possibility of the Lakers looking very different next season, he added, "In sports, everything comes to an end."

Bryant has said he has been treated well in most public venues and, although he has yet to play an exhibition game, fans have responded to the felony sexual assault charge against him with support.

He has not watched a game from the bench, however, and all of the Lakers' preseason games are considered Laker home games, even in arenas other than Staples Center, meaning partisan crowds.

The Lakers won't play on the road until Nov. 1 in Phoenix, then on Nov. 4 begin a four-game trip through Milwaukee, San Antonio, New Orleans and Memphis. Bryant said he was unconcerned.

"I've never heard [of] a fan blocking a jump shot," he said.

Booed in most road arenas because he is a high-profile Laker and in one, Philadelphia's, despite spending many years living there, Bryant has developed a firm road defiance.

"He stood up to all kinds of pressure in his career," Jackson said. "This is different, of course. We anticipate he's going to be bigger than a lot of people that are there."

O'Neal offered support.

"As long as no one [steps] across the line, I don't have a problem with him," he said. "The first one that steps across the line I'll knock [them] out."

I'll post what I posted over at another board. Will Kobe leave L.A.? We don't know at this point, obviously. However, I'd bet my life that Kobe will sign that four deal if the Lakers win the championship in record fashion this year. After all, Kobe will barely be 30 when he is available for free agency again if he signs the four year Lakers deal, so he still has the option of going it alone when he's in the prime of his career.

IMO, Kobe wants to win more then he wants to carry a team. With a dominate Shaq still around for 3 more years, Payton for at least 2 and probably 3 or 4 years, and Malone for 2 years, I'd say that Kobe would have to really have an aching need to prove something if he leaves L.A.

LRB
10-21-2003, 06:49 PM
I'm sure that there will be a big bidding war for Kobe's services ....















... in the Colorade Prison League

grbh
10-21-2003, 07:09 PM
I would be shocked if Kobe left the Lakers. It is very unnusual for free agent max players to leave their teams. I'm thinking of unrestricted players who got maxed out in the last few years, and T-Mac and Grant Hill are about the only ones I can think of who left. I am sure their are a couple others, but I feel pretty confident he will be witht the Lakers for at least one more contract. I would love to see him somewhere else.

Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by: grbh
I would love to see him somewhere else.

Finley for Kobe? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

MavsFanFinley
10-21-2003, 08:05 PM
I would be shocked if Kobe left the Lakers.

I wouldn't. We've talked a bit about this before and I believe Kobe will leave. I think he wants to go to a team where it begins and ends with him.

LRB
10-21-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley

I would be shocked if Kobe left the Lakers.

I wouldn't. We've talked a bit about this before and I believe Kobe will leave. I think he wants to go to a team where it begins and ends with him.

Not to mention that the Lakers are going to have to rebuild very soon. Kobe may want to be the begin and end, but after last year's start I don't think he wants on a rebuilding team with little or no talent besides himself.

Nash13
10-21-2003, 10:25 PM
LRB, that's a good point. I would rather rebuild with a team not named LA Lakers. They have very little talent outside of their big 4. He will probably go to a Denver or Memphis team that he can pad his stats for a little while.

Drbio
10-21-2003, 10:29 PM
Seriously....I hope Cuban doesn't even think about him coming to Dallas. I would be a Mavs fan, but I would never be able to be a showbe fan.

Max Power
10-21-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio
Seriously....I hope Cuban doesn't even think about him coming to Dallas. I would be a Mavs fan, but I would never be able to be a showbe fan.

Cuban probably dreams of Kobe every night. Kobe is an elite superstar and that's what Cuban wants for the Mavs.

Well Cuban probably dreams of SHAQ every night but I'm sure Kobe is in his dreams as well.

Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 10:44 PM
I think 99% of Mavs fans would sh!t their pants if Kobe came to Dallas. Kobe is a major reason why I'm a Lakers fan, so I know I'd be watching even more Mavs games if he came to Dallas.

Still, in the end, Shaq needs to ask for less money and play second fiddle to Kobe, so that the Lakers can rebuild around him with enough money for another two or so elite players. Knowing Shaq's greedy ass, he'll be asking for the max.

Drbio
10-21-2003, 10:46 PM
My comment had nothing to do with his talent or ability on a basketball court. Chalk me up as a 1% fan then. I would hate it if the drama queen came to Big D.

LRB
10-21-2003, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
I think 99% of Mavs fans would sh!t their pants if Kobe came to Dallas. Kobe is a major reason why I'm a Lakers fan, so I know I'd be watching even more Mavs games if he came to Dallas.

Still, in the end, Shaq needs to ask for less money and play second fiddle to Kobe, so that the Lakers can rebuild around him with enough money for another two or so elite players. Knowing Shaq's greedy ass, he'll be asking for the max.

Shaq Attack2 I love Kobe's talent, but I don't like all the baggage that he brings with him. So unless we basically were able to sign him for the MLE as a free agent or get him for a few spares in a trade I wouldn't want him. I don't think very many teams will be beating down his down in FA until his trial is settled either. No sense signing a guy and then have to turn around and void his contract because he's off to prison for the next 20 years.

Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
I think 99% of Mavs fans would sh!t their pants if Kobe came to Dallas. Kobe is a major reason why I'm a Lakers fan, so I know I'd be watching even more Mavs games if he came to Dallas.

Still, in the end, Shaq needs to ask for less money and play second fiddle to Kobe, so that the Lakers can rebuild around him with enough money for another two or so elite players. Knowing Shaq's greedy ass, he'll be asking for the max.

Shaq Attack2 I love Kobe's talent, but I don't like all the baggage that he brings with him. So unless we basically were able to sign him for the MLE as a free agent or get him for a few spares in a trade I wouldn't want him. I don't think very many teams will be beating down his down in FA until his trial is settled either. No sense signing a guy and then have to turn around and void his contract because he's off to prison for the next 20 years.

I think it's pretty obvious that this is assuming he's aquitted. It's not like there's any reason to believe Kobe is going to be convicted based on what we've heard so far anyway. Besides, I think you're gravely mistaken that teams won't take a chance on Kobe, the Mavs included. You'd pretty much have to be crazy not to take the chance at signing Kobe even with the trial looming. Of course, that's assuming the trial takes up the entire next summer. If GMs believe the trial will only take 3-4 weeks, they may decide to wait on offering a contract.

And no, Cuban would be paying Kobe at least 13-15 million. No GM in their right mind is going to offer the MLE to Kobe next summer, he's not 35.

Max Power
10-21-2003, 11:22 PM
I know that Memphis is trying to clear up enough cap space to make a run at Kobe for max money - not as much as the Lakers could pay but otherwise max money.

Do you think the Lakers would want a sign and trade? Or are they going to disbelieve until Kobe clears out his locker?

Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power
I know that Memphis is trying to clear up enough cap space to make a run at Kobe for max money - not as much as the Lakers could pay but otherwise max money.

Do you think the Lakers would want a sign and trade? Or are they going to disbelieve until Kobe clears out his locker?

It all depends, really. If Buss, Magic, Shaq, Jackson, etc. are simply unable to convince Kobe to stay (even if the Lakers do win the title this year), then they could definitely do a sign and trade, but for who? I'd try to leave my options open instead, and just let Kobe go elsewhere so that the $13 million he's earning right now is freed up for a couple elite players. Besides, the Lakers won't be hurting for talent after this season; Shaq will be around at least two more years in dominant fashion after next summer, as will Payton (possibly longer), with Malone probably only going one more season after this one.

Still, Kobe is the key to the Lakers' success this season, as it's plainly obvious to anyone that Shaq, Payton, and Malone are more than motivated for a title this year. And so if the Lakers win it all this year, it would be a damn shame to see him go, as he could have the chance at at least two more titles for a Jordan-tying total of six. And by that time, Payton and Malone will be gone and Shaq will be declining, so the Lakers can then rebuild around Kobe and give him maybe 20 million a year.

MavsFanFinley
10-21-2003, 11:38 PM
Do you think the Lakers would want a sign and trade?

They'd be pretty stupid not to want a sign and trade. At least, entertain some offers. It might not be stellar, but it would go a long way to helping rebuild.

The Lakers must have an idea that Kobe wants to leave. His disagreements with Coach Jackson, his feuds with Shaq, and the bottom line of wanting to be the #1 man on any team.

Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley

Do you think the Lakers would want a sign and trade?

They'd be pretty stupid not to want a sign and trade. At least, entertain some offers. It might not be stellar, but it would go a long way to helping rebuild.

The Lakers must have an idea that Kobe wants to leave. His disagreements with Coach Jackson, his feuds with Shaq, and the bottom line of wanting to be the #1 man on any team.

Kobe wants to be #1 because he's more talented then Shaq, but understands that winning a title necessitates a post presence, which Shaq provides better then anyone in the league and is exactly why Phil wants Kobe to yield and let Shaq do his thing. Kobe might not like it, but he understands it and obeys. Remember, Kobe has always been about winning, he's not going to up and leave solely due to the fact that he still has to yield to Shaq for a couple more years.

And the fits Kobe had with Shaq were more than two years ago and were (not surprisingly) blown out of proportion by the media. And even then, the Lakers won the titles those years. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Shaq Attack2
10-21-2003, 11:46 PM
Basically, in my mind, it comes down to Kobe wanting to be the man now or in 3-4 years. Because he will be the man if he's still playing for the Lakers in 3-4 years, no doubt. The question is, can he wait that long? Who knows.

EricaLubarsky
10-21-2003, 11:49 PM
I somehow knew this was coming. He said he was going to test the waters after this year at draft time, but the pundits thought he was doing it to motivate his team or to motivate Jackson to surround him with more talent. I didnt think he was whining to get his way when he said that, and if he was I think he certainly isnt now.

Things have changed, and although when he comes back he can get back to elite status, he has already been tagged as a no goodnik.

It'll be tough for any team other than the Jailblazers (who are "trying to clean up their image") to pick him up with the media scrutiny.

EricaLubarsky
10-21-2003, 11:52 PM
but dont get me wrong,

I do not want to see Kobe play for us. It's purely emotional based on my illogical hatred for the Lakers (like my hate for the Yankees) and my distaste for the show that is Kobe now.

Drbio
10-21-2003, 11:55 PM
There is no team in kobe. Kobe is all about kobe.

MavsFanFinley
10-22-2003, 12:08 AM
There is no team in kobe. Kobe is all about kobe.

Exactly.

Can you imagine all the players that would love to have Shaq as their big man? To be able to use (in a good way) him to open up their games even more?

Why wouldn't he test the market? I'd rather look at what team is rebuilding and make it my decision than to get locked up in LA where the rebuilding could be a disaster or be shipped to a team that you didn't like the rebuilding process.

Lvubun1
10-22-2003, 03:29 AM
If almost everybody can suddenly like Walker simply because he plays in a Mavs uni, I don't think it would take long for Kobe to be accepted.

ItalianMobbstah187
10-22-2003, 08:21 AM
We'd never be able to sign Kobe here, not enough shots to go around...

LRB
10-22-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2

Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
I think 99% of Mavs fans would sh!t their pants if Kobe came to Dallas. Kobe is a major reason why I'm a Lakers fan, so I know I'd be watching even more Mavs games if he came to Dallas.

Still, in the end, Shaq needs to ask for less money and play second fiddle to Kobe, so that the Lakers can rebuild around him with enough money for another two or so elite players. Knowing Shaq's greedy ass, he'll be asking for the max.

Shaq Attack2 I love Kobe's talent, but I don't like all the baggage that he brings with him. So unless we basically were able to sign him for the MLE as a free agent or get him for a few spares in a trade I wouldn't want him. I don't think very many teams will be beating down his down in FA until his trial is settled either. No sense signing a guy and then have to turn around and void his contract because he's off to prison for the next 20 years.

I think it's pretty obvious that this is assuming he's aquitted. It's not like there's any reason to believe Kobe is going to be convicted based on what we've heard so far anyway. Besides, I think you're gravely mistaken that teams won't take a chance on Kobe, the Mavs included. You'd pretty much have to be crazy not to take the chance at signing Kobe even with the trial looming. Of course, that's assuming the trial takes up the entire next summer. If GMs believe the trial will only take 3-4 weeks, they may decide to wait on offering a contract.

And no, Cuban would be paying Kobe at least 13-15 million. No GM in their right mind is going to offer the MLE to Kobe next summer, he's not 35.

Cubes could only offer the MLE because we're over the cap. That would be the same for any team over the cap. A sign and trade would be possible, but I wouldn't want to give up anything put spares for the potential cancer named Kobe.

Murphy3
10-22-2003, 08:57 AM
Plus, you never know when guys like Kobe will end up on trial for one thing or another. With guys like Kobe, it's always something.

LRB
10-22-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Plus, you never know when guys like Kobe will end up on trial for one thing or another. With guys like Kobe, it's always something.

And then again would Kobe want to live in a state that supports the death penalty and is as serious about crime as Texas is. You know that you'd never catch OJ living here.

Shaq Attack2
10-22-2003, 12:24 PM
Calling Kobe a cancer is ridiculous. Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet. To say that he's a cancer is pure Laker hate, nothing more. Any team in the league would offer Kobe at least what he's getting with the Lakers right now, and might even have to gut their teams to do so. Kobe did average 30-6-7 last season as a second option, for god sakes, and is considered the most clutch player in the league.

I wish I could fast forward to Kobe's likely acquittal next summer, but oh well.

bogey
10-22-2003, 12:35 PM
Certainly kobe could be acquitted and I don't think anyone is saying anything derogatory about his athletic talents. Some are just rightfully expressing their opinion that kobe will be a huge distraction to the lakers. That is not a stretch by any means and anyone who doubts the possibility is ignoring the obvious.

Now, on the issue of Kobe coming to Dallas, it would never happen for a variety of reason including dollars, cap flexibility, kobe's desire to play as the #1 option, and whatever other reason. I would not liek to see him come to Dallas. Of course, I am assuming that Dirk will always be here. I don't think Kobe can be a true team mate to Dirk and allow him to be the #1 option that he should be. Kobe is like someone said above all about Kobe. That worries me. This MAvericks team is jsut that...a team. They play well together as a unit, not as a group of individuals. With Kobe, you may have a team, but that team will always be playing with one individual.

Keep Kobe out of Dallas.

Murphy3
10-22-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
Calling Kobe a cancer is ridiculous. Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet. To say that he's a cancer is pure Laker hate, nothing more. Any team in the league would offer Kobe at least what he's getting with the Lakers right now, and might even have to gut their teams to do so. Kobe did average 30-6-7 last season as a second option, for god sakes, and is considered the most clutch player in the league.

I wish I could fast forward to Kobe's likely acquittal next summer, but oh well.

my previous post concerning Kobe was loaded with sarcasm

Psychedelic Fuzz
10-22-2003, 12:41 PM
Kobe is a great player, but needs to be on a team where he is the man. That will not happen in Dallas.
The trial is a messy affair, and kobe is kidding himself if he thinks that won't have at least some effect on his market value.

Shaq Attack2
10-22-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by: Murphy3

Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
Calling Kobe a cancer is ridiculous. Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet. To say that he's a cancer is pure Laker hate, nothing more. Any team in the league would offer Kobe at least what he's getting with the Lakers right now, and might even have to gut their teams to do so. Kobe did average 30-6-7 last season as a second option, for god sakes, and is considered the most clutch player in the league.

I wish I could fast forward to Kobe's likely acquittal next summer, but oh well.

my previous post concerning Kobe was loaded with sarcasm

I know, I was replying to LRB. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

LRB
10-22-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
Calling Kobe a cancer is ridiculous. Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet. To say that he's a cancer is pure Laker hate, nothing more. Any team in the league would offer Kobe at least what he's getting with the Lakers right now, and might even have to gut their teams to do so. Kobe did average 30-6-7 last season as a second option, for god sakes, and is considered the most clutch player in the league.

I wish I could fast forward to Kobe's likely acquittal next summer, but oh well.


Seems funny that legal experts are agreeing that Kobe will get off without all the evidence having been presented. Unless of course they are like me and feel Kobe will probably get off no matter what evidence there is against him because he is rich and famous. Still it would be highly foolish to thing that the trial won't affect Kobe's value or the number of teams that would go after him.

As for being a cancer, I still think that he is one. He is also incredibly talented as is Shaq. I feel that they won inspite of chemistry issues. But the main reason is that no one has a way of stopping Shaq. Throw Kobe on top of that and you have a lot of leeway for bad chemistry. PJ is an expert at dealing with tempermenatal superstars. Anyone that can get what he did out of Rodwoman deserves that rep. I think the Mavs can win without Kobe and that he would destroy the great chemistry here. And even for his great talent I wouldn't want to see that happen.

Shaq Attack2
10-22-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
Calling Kobe a cancer is ridiculous. Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet. To say that he's a cancer is pure Laker hate, nothing more. Any team in the league would offer Kobe at least what he's getting with the Lakers right now, and might even have to gut their teams to do so. Kobe did average 30-6-7 last season as a second option, for god sakes, and is considered the most clutch player in the league.

I wish I could fast forward to Kobe's likely acquittal next summer, but oh well.


Seems funny that legal experts are agreeing that Kobe will get off without all the evidence having been presented. Unless of course they are like me and feel Kobe will probably get off no matter what evidence there is against him because he is rich and famous. Still it would be highly foolish to thing that the trial won't affect Kobe's value or the number of teams that would go after him.

As for being a cancer, I still think that he is one. He is also incredibly talented as is Shaq. I feel that they won inspite of chemistry issues. But the main reason is that no one has a way of stopping Shaq. Throw Kobe on top of that and you have a lot of leeway for bad chemistry. PJ is an expert at dealing with tempermenatal superstars. Anyone that can get what he did out of Rodwoman deserves that rep. I think the Mavs can win without Kobe and that he would destroy the great chemistry here. And even for his great talent I wouldn't want to see that happen.

To say that a team that won 3 titles in a row never really had that great of a chemistry is a little, well, ridiculous, no? I know lots of people would agree with me there.

On the notion that Kobe is a cancer, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

EricaLubarsky
10-22-2003, 03:21 PM
To say that a team that won 3 titles in a row never really had that great of a chemistry is a little, well, ridiculous, no? I know lots of people would agree with me there

They never had good off the court chemistry, but in the three years that they won championships they had the best on-court chemistry of any team around....

LRB
10-22-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2


To say that a team that won 3 titles in a row never really had that great of a chemistry is a little, well, ridiculous, no? I know lots of people would agree with me there.

On the notion that Kobe is a cancer, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

They had good enough chemistry to win with the huge talent advantage that they had. But I'd certainly not call it great chemistry. Unless you want to argue that the Portland team that took the Lakers to 7 games and caused the Lakers to stage a huge 4th quarter comeback in the 4th quarter of the 7th game to advance to their 1st Finals had as least decent chemistry.

Chemistry is but one incredient. It determines what percentage of you overall talent level you can actually put to use. The Lakers simply overwhelmed people with talent. They produced good enough chemistry to win but they weren't anywhere near their potential. Winning championships doesn't mean that you have the best chemistry or even great chemistry. There are teams, Portland being one, which have much worse chemistry than the Lakers. The Lakers aren't the worst team in chemistry, but they certainly aren't the best. And what chemistry I think that they did have was more due to PJ and some of the veterans that he brought in than Kobe. Kobe is not a Rasheed Wallace, but he's not great for chemistry either.

The Mavs had great chemistry and played very near their talent potential last year IMO. And I don't think that Nellie has PJ's talent for dealing with chemistry challenged superstars. Remember Chris Webber and Patrick Ewing?

Kobe will always be a player I root against.

Shaq Attack2
10-22-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

To say that a team that won 3 titles in a row never really had that great of a chemistry is a little, well, ridiculous, no? I know lots of people would agree with me there

They never had good off the court chemistry, but in the three years that they won championships they had the best on-court chemistry of any team around....

I pretty much agree with you, except that I don't think LRB was saying that.


Originally posted by: LRBThey had good enough chemistry to win with the huge talent advantage that they had.

Um sorry, but Kobe and Shaq, barely average starters, and basically camp fodder after that is hardly a ďhuge talent advantageĒ. Lakers won because both Shaq and Kobe had the best on-court chemistry of any two players in the league and had a coach who knew how to utilize those talents to form a defensive powerhouse (excluding last year of course).


But I'd certainly not call it great chemistry.

Be honest, how many Laker games have you watched in the last 4 years?


Unless you want to argue that the Portland team that took the Lakers to 7 games and caused the Lakers to stage a huge 4th quarter comeback in the 4th quarter of the 7th game to advance to their 1st Finals had as least decent chemistry.

Uh, I watched that series, and Portland played extremely fluid basketball and had great chemistry overall, as did the Lakers. After their 4th quarter collapse, Portland has never been the same.


They produced good enough chemistry to win but they weren't anywhere near their potential. Winning championships doesn't mean that you have the best chemistry or even great chemistry.

Sorry, thereís no way around it. No team in the last decade of basketball that Iíve watched has won a championship without at least very good chemistry. I donít know how you define ďgreatĒ, so maybe Iím just not on the same page as you. As far winning titles without having the absolute best chemistry in the league, sure, Iíll agree with you there. Of course, itís really a pointless admission on my part, as chemistry means absolutely nothing without talent anyway. And from 2000-2002, the Lakers had the best combination of talent AND chemistry, but by no means did they have an overload of talent, not at all.


Kobe is not a Rasheed Wallace, but he's not great for chemistry either.

This makes no sense to me. What in the world gave you the idea that Kobe isnít good for ďchemistryĒ, however you define that. I put chemistry in quotes because Iím starting to suspect that you have an odd definition of chemistry.


Kobe will always be a player I root against.

This may be blinding you from the fact that Kobe isnít a cancer and isnít bad for a teamís chemistry. His 3 rings, 27-5-6 stats, and All Defensive First and Second team nominations over the last four years are only some of the evidence that contradicts those statements.

LRB
10-22-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

To say that a team that won 3 titles in a row never really had that great of a chemistry is a little, well, ridiculous, no? I know lots of people would agree with me there

They never had good off the court chemistry, but in the three years that they won championships they had the best on-court chemistry of any team around....

I pretty much agree with you, except that I don't think LRB was saying that.


Originally posted by: LRBThey had good enough chemistry to win with the huge talent advantage that they had.

Um sorry, but Kobe and Shaq, barely average starters, and basically camp fodder after that is hardly a ďhuge talent advantageĒ. Lakers won because both Shaq and Kobe had the best on-court chemistry of any two players in the league and had a coach who knew how to utilize those talents to form a defensive powerhouse (excluding last year of course).


But I'd certainly not call it great chemistry.

Be honest, how many Laker games have you watched in the last 4 years?


Unless you want to argue that the Portland team that took the Lakers to 7 games and caused the Lakers to stage a huge 4th quarter comeback in the 4th quarter of the 7th game to advance to their 1st Finals had as least decent chemistry.

Uh, I watched that series, and Portland played extremely fluid basketball and had great chemistry overall, as did the Lakers. After their 4th quarter collapse, Portland has never been the same.


They produced good enough chemistry to win but they weren't anywhere near their potential. Winning championships doesn't mean that you have the best chemistry or even great chemistry.

Sorry, thereís no way around it. No team in the last decade of basketball that Iíve watched has won a championship without at least very good chemistry. I donít know how you define ďgreatĒ, so maybe Iím just not on the same page as you. As far winning titles without having the absolute best chemistry in the league, sure, Iíll agree with you there. Of course, itís really a pointless admission on my part, as chemistry means absolutely nothing without talent anyway. And from 2000-2002, the Lakers had the best combination of talent AND chemistry, but by no means did they have an overload of talent, not at all.


Kobe is not a Rasheed Wallace, but he's not great for chemistry either.

This makes no sense to me. What in the world gave you the idea that Kobe isnít good for ďchemistryĒ, however you define that. I put chemistry in quotes because Iím starting to suspect that you have an odd definition of chemistry.


Kobe will always be a player I root against.

This may be blinding you from the fact that Kobe isnít a cancer and isnít bad for a teamís chemistry. His 3 rings, 27-5-6 stats, and All Defensive First and Second team nominations over the last four years are only some of the evidence that contradicts those statements.

Shaq Attack2 to answer your question about how many Laker games that I watched over the last 4 years I would say that I have watched at least large parts of 50 to 60 Lakers games over that period possibly even a few more.

As for Chemistry, i would define it by how well the players on the court mesh their talents and maximize their collective talent. Except for Shaq and Kobe the Lakers didn't have any other superstars. Everyone else was a role player. But they had excellent role players. Having 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA on the same team is what I call overwhelming talent. Remeber you can only put 5 players on the court at one time and only one player can have the ball at one time. Add that to the fact that Shaq is basically unstopable. Yes that is overwhelming.

As to why I think Kobe is bad for Chemistry. Well he's a ball hog. He'll take shots away from Shaq or force shots for whatever reason, but it appears very selfish to me. He doesn't do it every time, but he does it enough to be a problem. I think the Laker could have won a ton more games if not for Kobe's selfishness. Yes they would have lost lots of games without his talent as well. I just see Kobe as a great talent, but providing poor chemistry.

sike
10-22-2003, 06:09 PM
I just have to share this thought with you: imagine Kobe in Memphis blue and white scoring 35-37 a game taking 25-30 shots a game and losing 45-55 games a year.....I just thought this wake up call to the sheltered NBA dream life he has lived coming to a crashing end might be humorous to someone other than just me.

DNNF
10-23-2003, 10:34 AM
Kobe' s decision to test the free agent market will be base on the outcome of this year. If the Lakers can't win it all, then the Lakers will be breaking up. Unless Kobe is going to jail, then the whole team will be break up anyway.

Anyteam in this leage would be stupid not to want Kobe in their uniform regardless of his attitute. If any of us Mavs fans said that we don't want Kobe to be here, that would be rediculous. I'm sure that Cuban would depart 2 of our big 3 just to get Kobe.

Yes, kobe is all about Kobe, he is a ball hog freak, but doesn't most superstars have to be a ball hog in someway? Looked at Jordan for instant.

kg_veteran
10-23-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by: Lvubun1
If almost everybody can suddenly like Walker simply because he plays in a Mavs uni, I don't think it would take long for Kobe to be accepted.

I agree with this. I know that I'm a Mavericks fan much more than I'm a fan of any particular player. If Kobe came here, I'd root for him just like I rooted for that showboat Deion Sanders when he was a Cowboy.


Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet.

ShaqAttack, I can't say I've followed every bit of the Kobe media circus, but any "legal expert" who thinks he/she can predict the outcome of the trial based on what we know so far is just talking out of their ass.

FishForLunch
10-23-2003, 04:45 PM
I would love it if we can get Kobe to play for the Mavs. We could give up Finley and Nash for Kobe and still it would be a steal.

Shaq Attack2
10-23-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Legal experts are already giving the trial to Kobe and it hasn't even begun yet.

ShaqAttack, I can't say I've followed every bit of the Kobe media circus, but any "legal expert" who thinks he/she can predict the outcome of the trial based on what we know so far is just talking out of their ass.

Haha, OK, I agree. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif