PDA

View Full Version : Hypothetical Lakers Poll


MavKikiNYC
10-28-2003, 09:46 AM
This Shaq v. Kobe stuff is great--I couldn't have written it any better myself.

Now Kobe's missing game(s) because of his "knee".

Shaq says maybe Kobe should opt out if he's not happy sailing on The Diesel's ship.

Next up: Kobe tells Shaq to go opt himself dry.


Question: Supposing someone (such as David Stern, perhaps?) told Kobe to sit this one (the season) out--

Would the addition of Gary Payton and Karl Malone along with Shaq's supposed improved condtion allow for better team performance than in years' past with an icy collaboartion between Shaq and Kobe?

dirno2000
10-28-2003, 09:58 AM
I went with Mailman/Payton lineup, but only because I'm assuming I can't pair the lighter and more motivated Shaq with last years Kobe. If I could, I'd take the latter.

Murphy3
10-28-2003, 10:03 AM
I went with Payton and Malone.

Why? I still rank Payton as a top 10-11 player or so. Mailman is still a top 25 guy.

And, shooting guard is the easiest position to fill in the NBA. An elite PG and a near elite PF in exchange for a SG that's a top 4-5 player in the NBA.. tough decision.

but, if you trade a healthy/lighter shaq for a banged up & oveweight shaq..

wel, the decision becomes pretty easy

Chiwas
10-28-2003, 11:32 AM
The Lakers without Kobe won't win the Western finals.

The Lakers without Shaq wouldn't win anything.

The Shaq-Payton-Malone only makes the Lakers a normal top 5 Western team. Malone is old, and will be more old lazing with the Lakers, hoping that Shaq makes all the hard work; Payton without Kobe won't shine, he needs a quick and effective swingman, and is becoming old too, he will want to make everything and end doing nothing, the opposite of Stockton.

Murphy3
10-28-2003, 11:44 AM
Payton without Kobe won't shine, he needs a quick and effective swingman, and is becoming old too, he will want to make everything and end doing nothing, the opposite of Stockton.

Payton has shined his entire career regardless of whether or not he's had a great 'swingman'. Has there really been anything in his performance the past couple of seasons to suggest that this guy is slowing down considerably? No, not at all.

Chiwas
10-28-2003, 12:47 PM
Maybe you're right, but I'm trusting in my prediction. Payton won't reach the level for the championship without Kobe.

Chiwas
10-28-2003, 12:52 PM
However it would be almost impossible to test this poll. If Kobe plays some or many games but not all of them, if the Lakers won't get the ring but compete strongly, if there are some main injuries, and so on.

This poll is just for our feeling, and will stay as its title: "would be".

Murphy3
10-28-2003, 01:12 PM
sure, it's not really possible to find out which would be the correct answer.. that's not what i was questioning.

I was questioning your comments on Payton that were way off base.

Chiwas
10-28-2003, 02:51 PM
Impossible to measure that too; it's part of the same subjective scheme.

Murphy3
10-28-2003, 03:12 PM
Yes, and I could say the world will end tomorrow because of an alien invasion. I would have no basis for my statement. There's virtually no chance of it occurring tomorrow. But, I could say that 'you can't prove me wrong.'

that wouldn't make the statement any less intelligent...
The same applies with your statement regarding payton

WayOutWest
10-28-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Yes, and I could say the world will end tomorrow because of an alien invasion. I would have no basis for my statement. There's virtually no chance of it occurring tomorrow. But, I could say that 'you can't prove me wrong.'

that wouldn't make the statement any less intelligent...
The same applies with your statement regarding payton

LOL!

Carefull Murph, there are some ex-OJ jurors lurking on these boards.

mavsman
10-28-2003, 08:19 PM
I go with Murphy. Shooting guard really is the easiest position to fill as witnessed in the first season MJ sat out, when the Bulls dropped from 57-25 to 55-27 after they replaced the greatest player of all time with CBA-great Pete Myers.

Chiwas
10-28-2003, 08:32 PM
that wouldn't make the statement any less intelligent...
The same applies with your statement regarding payton
You got it. We can't prove the other wrong on subjective matters ever.

Chiwas
10-29-2003, 10:30 AM
After last nigh't game, I would like to reverse my vote. Shaq-Malone-Payton were very good. I liked them.

But I will wait for more games.

Murph: I give you the first point out of 82 about Payton. Even when I usually don't like him, he played very well last night.

Fidel
10-29-2003, 12:35 PM
Payton without Kobe won't shine, he needs a quick and effective swingman, and is becoming old too, he will want to make everything and end doing nothing, the opposite of Stockton.

LOL where did get this info Chiwas? Anyways the statement doesnīt make sense at all.

Payton hardly needs a player as good as Kobe on his side to shine. Except you think that Hersey Hawkins, Nate McMillan, Greg Anthony or Kendall Gill are right up there with Kobe. The two best SG`s/wing players that Payton played with were Ricky Pierce (in the early years) and Rashard Lewis (recently).

Itīs quite the opposite. With Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker (yes he had two productive season in Seattle, 97-98 and 99-2000), Detlef Schrempf (you could say that Schrempf was a wing player too but he was hardly the quick slasher type, definitly more of a SF/PF) and even Sam Perkins the Sonics had pretty good frontcourt players during Paytons years with them. And when it comes to frontcourt players the Lakers are pretty much set with Shaq and Malone. Payton will shine in LA with or without Kobe.

Chiwas
10-29-2003, 01:01 PM
An obsolete reply, Fidel. But thanks anyway. It has good information. I'll tell you a thought:

If you only had posted

"Payton hardly needs a player as good as Kobe on his side to shine. Except you think that Hersey Hawkins, Nate McMillan, Greg Anthony or Kendall Gill are right up there with Kobe. The two best SG`s/wing players that Payton played with were Ricky Pierce (in the early years) and Rashard Lewis (recently).

Itīs quite the opposite. With Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker (yes he had two productive season in Seattle, 97-98 and 99-2000), Detlef Schrempf (you could say that Schrempf was a wing player too but he was hardly the quick slasher type, definitly more of a SF/PF) and even Sam Perkins the Sonics had pretty good frontcourt players during Paytons years with them. And when it comes to frontcourt players the Lakers are pretty much set with Shaq and Malone. Payton will shine in LA with or without Kobe."

I had took it more seriously.

What do you need the expression

"LOL where did get this info Chiwas? Anyways the statement doesnīt make sense at all."

for?

It only spoils your good next paragraphs.

Just a thought.

Fidel
10-29-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by: Chiwas
An obsolete reply, Fidel. But thanks anyway. It has good information. I'll tell you a thought:

If you only had posted

"Payton hardly needs a player as good as Kobe on his side to shine. Except you think that Hersey Hawkins, Nate McMillan, Greg Anthony or Kendall Gill are right up there with Kobe. The two best SG`s/wing players that Payton played with were Ricky Pierce (in the early years) and Rashard Lewis (recently).

Itīs quite the opposite. With Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker (yes he had two productive season in Seattle, 97-98 and 99-2000), Detlef Schrempf (you could say that Schrempf was a wing player too but he was hardly the quick slasher type, definitly more of a SF/PF) and even Sam Perkins the Sonics had pretty good frontcourt players during Paytons years with them. And when it comes to frontcourt players the Lakers are pretty much set with Shaq and Malone. Payton will shine in LA with or without Kobe."

I had took it more seriously.

What do you need the expression

"LOL where did get this info Chiwas? Anyways the statement doesnīt make sense at all."

for?

It only spoils your good next paragraphs.

Just a thought.
It`s allways the same with you Chiwas. When someone proves one of your statements wrong you allways retreat to stuff like that. So if I hadnīt included the first two sentences you wouldnīt have answered at all? How about trying to contribute something of substance to the discussion or simply admitting you were wrong instead of pulling this same old stuff all the time?

Edit: one more thing. How was my reply obsolete? Care to explain?

Fidel
10-29-2003, 01:22 PM
By the way, I voted Payton/Malone/Shaq-lite. Compared to Shaq-fat/Kobe itīs really no contest. Kobe and Shaq-lite together is much closer but Iīd still choose Payton/Malone. Payton is still very good, a top 15 player and one of the best at his position. And Malone is declining rather slow.

Murphy3
10-29-2003, 01:29 PM
IMO, Payton is still at least the second best PG in the NBA. And it would be difficult for me to put Kidd ahead of The Glove.

Shaq Attack2
10-29-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
IMO, Payton is still at least the second best PG in the NBA. And it would be difficult for me to put Kidd ahead of The Glove.

Kidd is ahead of Payton if only because he's still very quick, and noticably quicker than Payton. But most of all, I think Kidd is able to simply make his team much better, in addition to being a much better passer than Payton on the fast break. Otherwise, Payton is still a better scorer, shooter, an equally good slasher, and a better overall defender.

Chiwas
10-29-2003, 02:40 PM
Edit: one more thing. How was my reply obsolete? Care to explain?

Care you read my posts?


After last nigh't game, I would like to reverse my vote. Shaq-Malone-Payton were very good. I liked them.

But I will wait for more games.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Murph: I give you the first point out of 82 about Payton. Even when I usually don't like him, he played very well last night.

I liked the new Lakers. My second most hated team played very good last night. I didn't like the Kobe-Shaq team of the last years. But now they look-play different with Payton-Malone; I don't like Payton but last nigh he played very well; Malone played like a young star and both made me forget -thankfully- Kobe.

Fidel
10-29-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by: Chiwas

Edit: one more thing. How was my reply obsolete? Care to explain?

Care you read my posts?


After last nigh't game, I would like to reverse my vote. Shaq-Malone-Payton were very good. I liked them.

But I will wait for more games.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Murph: I give you the first point out of 82 about Payton. Even when I usually don't like him, he played very well last night.

I liked the new Lakers. My second most hated team played very good last night. I didn't like the Kobe-Shaq team of the last years. But now they look-play different with Payton-Malone; I don't like Payton but last nigh he played very well; Malone played like a young star and both made me forget -thankfully- Kobe.
First Chiwas, just a hint: cut it down with the cockyness. It doesnīt fit someone whoes bag is as empty as yours.

Second: The point you made was about Payton not being able to shine without an athletic and quick wingplayer (in this context without Kobe). Me and others told you why that statement doesnīt make sense. And now you are talking about the poll which is a whole different point.

And third: even if I let you get away with chanaging the point of the argument (I could pretend I didnīt notice anything lol), even then your last post would be very weak. It would basicly mean that you did change your opinion on Payton based on just one game.

So instead of trying to backpadel and sneak out of an argument everytime you lose how about admitting you were wrong? Just once. Itīs really not that hard.