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View Full Version : Lakers Squeak Past Suns 103-99


Shaq Attack2
11-01-2003, 11:45 PM
http://www.nba.com/games/20031101/LALPHO/boxscore.html

Game was all Lakers the first half, but Suns made a great run in the 2nd Half, especially mid-way through the 4th. But Kobe and Karl hit some clutch free throws and Marion turned the ball over and missed two relatively easy baby jumpers that sealed the Suns fate. Lakers still seem to be the very strong 4th quarter team theyíve proven to be over the last 4 years.

Marbury did very well, racking up 26 points and collecting 11 assists. Hardaway hit two very clutch threes in the 4th quarter, as did Johnson. Payton had another great game with 19 points, 9 assists and 2 steals. Shaq had a pretty monster game with 24 points, 12 rebounds (5 offensive) and 4 blocks. Kobe still no where near himself with 15 points, 4 assists, 6 rebounds and no steals on 33% shooting in 37 minutes. Thankfully heís still got his clutch touch from the line and floor when it matters, but otherwise he has at least one more month to go before heís 90%+.

bogey
11-01-2003, 11:53 PM
If Matrix or Stoudamire had bothered to show up at all, the Lakers would have lost this game.

Shaq Attack2
11-01-2003, 11:57 PM
Who's Matrix? Marion? If so, I agree, but you underestimate the hurt Shaq and Karl put on the Suns front line tonight.

bogey
11-02-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
Who's Matrix? Marion? If so, I agree, but you underestimate the hurt Shaq and Karl put on the Suns front line tonight.

Yes...Marion. I underestimate nothing. I watched the better part of the second half. The Suns clearly outplayed the Lakers in the second half. If not for a good first half and the non-contributions of two key Suns players....it would have been different. Bottom line....Lakers won. The rest is just specualtion.

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by: bogey

Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
Who's Matrix? Marion? If so, I agree, but you underestimate the hurt Shaq and Karl put on the Suns front line tonight.

Yes...Marion. I underestimate nothing. I watched the better part of the second half. The Suns clearly outplayed the Lakers in the second half. If not for a good first half and the non-contributions of two key Suns players....it would have been different. Bottom line....Lakers won. The rest is just specualtion.

The Suns scored just 2.5 more buckets than the Lakers in the 2nd Half, hardly "clearly outplayed". Suns were good generally in the 2nd Half but didn't convert often enough when it mattered, and Lakers hit their free throws. Marion missing opportunities, Amare shooting a 3 for whatever reason with seconds left, etc.

bogey
11-02-2003, 12:14 AM
Amare was an idiot for passing up Jacobsen.

If you can't get past your obvious laker bias on the outplayed thing then there is no need to discuss this further. No matter how you state it, the Suns clearly outplayed the Lakers in the second half. Intensity, hustle, etc. It was very obvious except to homer-esque (not a derogatory term here) fans.

Besides...I don't come to a Mavs message board to talk about the lakers in this much detail. Who in their right mind would want to do that wiht the lakers? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

LRB
11-02-2003, 12:17 AM
The Suns scored just 2.5 more buckets than the Lakers in the 2nd Half,

i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif Just how do you score a .5 buckect? i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

rakesh.s
11-02-2003, 12:25 AM
i watched most of this game..it was kind of weird

marbury was great but amare really needs to slow down a little and avoid picking up those early fouls

the lakers looked good but kobe is still working himself back into shape, so they're not as good as they can be

the suns need another year or two to mature and some bigger bodies in there

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by: bogey
Amare was an idiot for passing up Jacobsen.

One of several reasons the Suns didn't outplay the Lakers by all that much in the 2nd Half.


If you can't get past your obvious laker bias on the outplayed thing then there is no need to discuss this further. No matter how you state it, the Suns clearly outplayed the Lakers in the second half. Intensity, hustle, etc. It was very obvious except to homer-esque (not a derogatory term here) fans.

And those two things were basically the only two things the Suns did better in the 2nd Half. Kobe and Karl hitting clutch shots and free throws and Marion and Amare missing and not converting when it mattered is the Lakers outplaying the Suns. Yes, the Suns outplayed the Lakers in the 2nd Half, it simply wasn't clearly by all that much.

But I can agree to disagree if you think being outscored by 5 points in two quarters is being clearly outplayed. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif


Besides...I don't come to a Mavs message board to talk about the lakers in this much detail. Who in their right mind would want to do that wiht the lakers?

Me! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif


Originally posted by: LRB

The Suns scored just 2.5 more buckets than the Lakers in the 2nd Half,

i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif Just how do you score a .5 buckect? i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

5 points, I meant.

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by: rakesh.s
i watched most of this game..it was kind of weird

marbury was great but amare really needs to slow down a little and avoid picking up those early fouls

the lakers looked good but kobe is still working himself back into shape, so they're not as good as they can be

the suns need another year or two to mature and some bigger bodies in there

Suns will be a sleeper Western team this year, ahead of the Tpups IMO.

rakesh.s
11-02-2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
i watched most of this game..it was kind of weird

marbury was great but amare really needs to slow down a little and avoid picking up those early fouls

the lakers looked good but kobe is still working himself back into shape, so they're not as good as they can be

the suns need another year or two to mature and some bigger bodies in there

Suns will be a sleeper Western team this year, ahead of the Tpups IMO.

i don't think we should put them ahead of the TPups..no way because garnett is too good to let that team fall too far down..amare is real good but he isn't at garnett or duncan's level, YET..

olowokandi also looks like he's getting back into playing shape and spree always plays good D..something they never got from Wally

i would say that they have a chance at giving a top seed a real scare this year...7 games down to the wire

Murphy3
11-02-2003, 01:29 AM
Suns will be a sleeper Western team this year, ahead of the Tpups IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the suns or the rockets finish ahead of minnesota. i'm not overly fond of any of the players they added...

sike
11-02-2003, 08:46 AM
I know this is "off topic", but the pups new guys, to me, are nothing more than several fairly large sized headaches combined to form the possibility of a megaheadache....this team could very well implode...did you see the 61 they put up the other night?

oh yeah...I hate the Lakers...

ReDIRKulous
11-02-2003, 03:47 PM
Has anyone noticed that the Lakers are playing a lot like the Kings now? I notice a lot of the same kind of passing in the game we played against them. Is this by design? IS this just a coincidence or is it like a 'F' you' to the Kings... like beating them at their own game.

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Has anyone noticed that the Lakers are playing a lot like the Kings now? I notice a lot of the same kind of passing in the game we played against them. Is this by design? IS this just a coincidence or is it like a 'F' you' to the Kings... like beating them at their own game.

Yup, I've noticed that too. The Lakers offensive chemistry is truly great, ala the Kings, both in terms of passing and energy. Lakers just need to work on defensive rotation and they'll be tough to beat. That won't happen until Kobe is back at full force, which assuming the worst is by late December or early January.

ReDIRKulous
11-02-2003, 05:19 PM
Do you think Phil is actually stealing the KIngs system though Shaq Attack? Or is this stuff phil and Malone have always done? I swear, to me it looks like Phil is totally copying the Kings system... probably because he cna but probably more as a F' off kind of thing. I like just realized it yesterday, thinking back to the plays they ran... it was like watching the Kings, exactly. Just bizarre.

They even went small and used Payton and Fisher together like the Kings use Bibby and Bobby. Just bizarre.

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Do you think Phil is actually stealing the KIngs system though Shaq Attack?

Offensively, no. Bibby gets screens up the wazoo. In the triangle, screens are not a conventional play at all. Though, expect to see Malone setting screens for Payton this year. Still, Adelman runs the screen all the time, designed specifically for Bibby, something the Lakers have done very little of because Jackson prefers the triangle. In addition, the triangle emphasizes that the (small) forward initiate some entry passing at the beginning of a possession. This is something Adelman most definitely does not have Peja do, though I have seen some flashes of it with Webber out, though Peja does more than initiate of course. But with Webber in and the Kings running their conventional offense, you'll see more of the same, with guards dumping in the ball to Webber or screens for Bibby/Bobby.


Or is this stuff phil and Malone have always done? I swear, to me it looks like Phil is totally copying the Kings system... probably because he cna but probably more as a F' off kind of thing. I like just realized it yesterday, thinking back to the plays they ran... it was like watching the Kings, exactly. Just bizarre.

In terms of general passing, yes. But, I think part of that is because Kobe isn't healthy. Otherwise, you'd be seeing alley oop dunks from Payton to Kobe or Payton finding Kobe slashing to the paint or on the wings. That'll definitely define the Lakers offense more than anything this year once Kobe is back in shape. Honestly though, I bet even Phil isn't sure what offense to use knowing that he has so many weapons, and being unsure what to do with Kobe and Shaq taking fewer FGA. However, as always, Phil is more worried about the defense, and will let the 4 HOFer's and George figure out what to do beyond what he's already told them to do on offense.


They even went small and used Payton and Fisher together like the Kings use Bibby and Bobby. Just bizarre.

That's mostly because Rush isn't mature enough yet and because Fisher is one of the best long range shooters in the league, even at 6-1. Though, remember, Payton is 6-4.

LRB
11-02-2003, 05:38 PM
Do you think Phil is actually stealing the KIngs system though Shaq Attack?

I'll really start worrying when Shaq Attack 2 announcing that he's bringing cowbells to the Lakers home games. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Do you think Phil is actually stealing the KIngs system though Shaq Attack?

I'll really start worrying when Shaq Attack 2 announcing that he's bringing cowbells to the Lakers home games. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

I would shoot myself before that happens. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

ReDIRKulous
11-02-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Do you think Phil is actually stealing the KIngs system though Shaq Attack?

Offensively, no. Bibby gets screens up the wazoo. In the triangle, screens are not a conventional play at all. Though, expect to see Malone setting screens for Payton this year. Still, Adelman runs the screen all the time, designed specifically for Bibby, something the Lakers have done very little of because Jackson prefers the triangle. In addition, the triangle emphasizes that the (small) forward initiate some entry passing at the beginning of a possession. This is something Adelman most definitely does not have Peja do, though I have seen some flashes of it with Webber out, though Peja does more than initiate of course. But with Webber in and the Kings running their conventional offense, you'll see more of the same, with guards dumping in the ball to Webber or screens for Bibby/Bobby.


Or is this stuff phil and Malone have always done? I swear, to me it looks like Phil is totally copying the Kings system... probably because he cna but probably more as a F' off kind of thing. I like just realized it yesterday, thinking back to the plays they ran... it was like watching the Kings, exactly. Just bizarre.

In terms of general passing, yes. But, I think part of that is because Kobe isn't healthy. Otherwise, you'd be seeing alley oop dunks from Payton to Kobe or Payton finding Kobe slashing to the paint or on the wings. That'll definitely define the Lakers offense more than anything this year once Kobe is back in shape. Honestly though, I bet even Phil isn't sure what offense to use knowing that he has so many weapons, and being unsure what to do with Kobe and Shaq taking fewer FGA. However, as always, Phil is more worried about the defense, and will let the 4 HOFer's and George figure out what to do beyond what he's already told them to do on offense.


They even went small and used Payton and Fisher together like the Kings use Bibby and Bobby. Just bizarre.

That's mostly because Rush isn't mature enough yet and because Fisher is one of the best long range shooters in the league, even at 6-1. Though, remember, Payton is 6-4.



Good points about the screens. They should run more screens with Shaq and Malone though! lol

Have you noticed that Malone actually doesn't work as well in some ways in the Shaq offense? The great thing about Horry is that he would strecth the defense because he could stand out on the three point line. But Malone is used to being positioned much closer. This causes problems with spacing because Shaq and Malone are right in the same area which makes it easier to duoble off of either one. I wonder how this might affect them? Does it decrease Malone's effectiveness?

Is this why they had Malone and Shaq haivng a three point shooting competition the other day? To bad fo the Lakers Malone lost that competition because they need him to hit that shot. lol

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 06:00 PM
Good points about the screens. They should run more screens with Shaq and Malone though! lol

I know, it's too good to resist too often. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif


Have you noticed that Malone actually doesn't work as well in some ways in the Shaq offense? The great thing about Horry is that he would strecth the defense because he could stand out on the three point line. But Malone is used to being positioned much closer. This causes problems with spacing because Shaq and Malone are right in the same area which makes it easier to duoble off of either one. I wonder how this might affect them? Does it decrease Malone's effectiveness?

Actually Malone is beginning to situate himself closer to the FT line, which means teams will still pay for the double, especially once Kobe is back on the wings. With Malone at the FT line area or even further, this space gives Malone three plays to make:

1) Shoot that fade away jumper of his.
2) Quick, hard passes to cutting guards (think Kobe when he's healthy, but also Payton too).
3) A dump pass into Shaq, who is either already deeply positioned for the dunk/chippy, or will take his time to get closer to the basket

To expand on #3, Shaq may even find a cutting Malone often. I remember during the first game of the year against the Mavs where Shaq found Malone twice cutting to the basket for the easy layup.

The biggest problem with the Lakers offensively will not be which plays to draw up, but who gets the shots. Hopefully Kobe realizes that he's going to have to pass more, cut more, and shoot less. I don't think he's dumb, so he's already figured that out. Payton, Malone, and Shaq have already figured out how to work with each very effectively, as the Mavs saw last Tuesday. Kobe is the last ingredient, and itíll be interesting to see how he does at full strength.

Shaq Attack2
11-02-2003, 06:01 PM
Is this why they had Malone and Shaq haivng a three point shooting competition the other day? To bad fo the Lakers Malone lost that competition because they need him to hit that shot. lol

I hope not, Malone does not need to develop a sweet tooth for 3-point shooting.

ReDIRKulous
11-02-2003, 06:11 PM
The biggest problem with the Lakers offensively will not be which plays to draw up, but who gets the shots. Hopefully Kobe realizes that he's going to have to pass more, cut more, and shoot less. I don't think he's dumb, so he's already figured that out. Payton, Malone, and Shaq have already figured out how to work with each very effectively, as the Mavs saw last Tuesday. Kobe is the last ingredient, and itíll be interesting to see how he does at full strength.


Good point. This is the biggest thing that could destroy the Lakers chemistry. I have noticed that Kobe is a lot like Finley - when he doesn't get a lot of shots he struggles. He is defiantely a volume shooter. And when he does hit his shots you can't get him to stop. Kind of like Van Exel too. Kobe and Van Exel both like to play one on five when they get hot.