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ocelot_ark
11-06-2003, 12:24 PM
Time for Davis, Wells to change addresses?
By Chad Ford NBA Insider
Updated: November 6
9:54 AM ET

Every year the Christmas season seems to begin a few weeks earlier. On Nov. 1, Wal-Mart replaced its Halloween section with a massive Christmas display.

The point? It's never too early to get your shopping face on. The NBA season is just a little over a week old and the trade deadline isn't until February, but that hasn't stopped the rumor mill from already churning.

Too early to panic, you say? It's a long season? Still believe in your team?

Sure, we buy into all of that. Still, five games into the season it's becoming pretty clear that some players need a serious change of scenery if they're going to break out of their shell. Is it time for some GMs to start thinking trade before a player's value plummets too far?

Insider made some phone calls on Wednesday, trying to get a feel for which players are out there in the NBA rumor mill. While keeping in mind that teams don't shop players (and players don't smoke pot) here's a look at guys who, according to several GMs, could already be heading to clearance.

Ricky Davis, G/F, Cavs -- Davis already complaining about LeBron? That's the rumbling around the league. We knew that Davis would have a tough time adjusting to being a distant second fiddle to LeBron, but four games and four losses into the season (albeit against Western Conference teams) and the patience already seems to be wearing thin. While a source in Cleveland denies that he's being shopped, several other GMs insist the Davis is available. Davis has five years, $27 million left on his deal. But for a 20-point-a-night scorer, that's a bargain.

Bonzi Wells, G/F, Blazers -- The good news is that Bonzi didn't spit on a fan. The bad news is that flipping off the home crowd isn't much better. Paul Allen and Steve Patterson promised they'd have zero tolerance for this type of nonsense. Wells' claim of a "blackout" is just ridiculous. Now's the perfect time for the Blazers to get their point across. Moving Wells makes basketball sense too. He's struggling at the two this year because he struggles from the perimeter. He's more comfortable playing the three, but with Zach Randolph looking great at the four and Rasheed Wallace moving to the three, Wells is stuck playing out of position. A trade of Wells to the Raptors for Mo Peterson, Michael Bradley and a retiring Eric Montross would give the Blazers the extra luxury-tax relief they've been looking for next summer and would send a strong message to the rest of the team about the importance of staying professional on and off the court.

Eddy Curry, C, Bulls -- In the preseason he appeared on the verge of a breakout season. Now? Wednesday night the Bulls played their best basketball of the season with Curry sitting on the bench. Curry still has a ton of promise and a ton of trade value. Will that hold true if he continues to struggle with the Bulls? Curry seems like a guy who needs a wake-up call. A trade and a serious change of scenery could do that. GM John Paxson is ready to check out of lottery land. The Bulls won't give any of their young players away, but could a combo of Curry, Jamal Crawford (word is he's always been available) and Jalen Rose bring the Bulls the veterans they need to compete? I'd pick up the phone and see if Mark Cuban (who's had a thing for Curry and Rose for years) would give up Steve Nash, Michael Finley and Antawn Jamison for a combo of Curry, Crawford, Rose and Eddie Robinson. Crawford and Rose could hold their own in the Mavs backcourt and Curry could be the answer the Mavs have been searching for in the middle. Meanwhile, the Bulls would get the veterans they've been looking for to surround Tyson Chandler. That's a big, pretty unrealistic in-season trade. But with Cuban, you never know.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim, F, Hawks -- The Hawks look like they're going to be as terrible as advertised. Keeping Rahim, they're one tradable asset, doesn't make a lot of sense. Rahim's career low 14.4 ppg average doesn't help things either. Would a team like the Nuggets or Jazz (who are clearly better than we thought they'd be) be willing to give up a young player or two (like Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Rodney White) for Rahim? The key for the Hawks is to get well under the cap next summer.

Jerome James, C, Sonics -- He's back in Nate McMillan's dog house. His game still intrigues plenty of GMs around the league. Would someone give up a legit power forward for James? The Sonics like what Vladimir Radmanovic has done so far offensively, but he's also the guy who gave up 21 points and 15 boards to a guy with a broken foot on opening night. Given the strong play of Ronald Murray, could the Sonics afford to give up Radmanovic, James and Brent Barry for Rahim? That trade could put the Sonics back on the map in the West and give the Hawks some serious cap room next season.

ocelot_ark
11-06-2003, 12:26 PM
The way Finley is playing...Chicago might be the only team out there that still thinks he has value. Of course, I don't like this trade at all, but I do wish we could get Curry. Crawford, in my opinion, is already a very good player...so I'd take him too. No interest in Jalen Rose or Eddie Robinson, though.

FineCubanCigar
11-06-2003, 12:28 PM
switch jamison for walker because Jamison is the answer at the 3 spot and i would pull the trigger. And through in a 1st round draft pick instead of Rose!

Stew3636
11-06-2003, 12:38 PM
Chicago trades: SF Jalen Rose (22.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.8 apg in 40.9 minutes)
SF Eddie Robinson (5.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.2 minutes)
PF Marcus Fizer (11.7 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.3 apg in 21.3 minutes)
C Eddy Curry (10.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.4 minutes)
Chicago receives: PF Antoine Walker (20.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 4.8 apg in 78 games)
SG Michael Finley (19.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.0 apg in 69 games)
Change in team outlook: -10.6 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +0.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED



Then we get rid of Rose somehow if they insist on including him in the deal or they could give us a 1st round pick. I do not think there is any way this organization trades Steve Nash

FineCubanCigar
11-06-2003, 12:49 PM
thats wonderfull trade, but then won't Fizer pose the same problem as Walker?

madape
11-06-2003, 12:52 PM
I love Jalen Rose. He's a badass. He's got the handles, the shot, and the confidence that I'd love to see at the two spot here. He's infinitely more versatile offensive player than Finley, and a more competent defensive one as well. He would flourish under Nelson.

I'm a bit cautious on Curry. He's a little slow of foot. He's not a prolific shotblocker. Mainly he's just a big, strong guy with a good back-to-the basket game. There's a real danger he'd just clog up the middle and ruin our spacing on offense. He's a nice player, but I don't think he fits well with this team.

I'd much rather have Chandler. He's a super-freak athlete in the mold of Kevin Garnett, only I think Chandler may be even MORE athletic than KG. If you had a contest and challenged every NBA player to jump as high as they could and touch a spot on a wall, I think Chandler might be able to touch a full six inches higher than anyone else in the NBA. He's just so damn tall and can jump so damn high. I think he'll eventually lead the league in both blocks and rebounds. He's got such a fluid game. Someday, he'll be able to handle the rock on the perimeter and drive and dish like a swingman. Talk about a weapon in this offense. Already he appears to be able to run the court like a swingman. It makes me drool to think about what he'd do here. He'll never be the centerpoint of an offense, but he'll be a very nice complementary player. On defense, he could be something very, very special.

kg_veteran
11-06-2003, 01:02 PM
I can't believe I'm biting on discussing yet ANOTHER "Finley-to-Chicago" rumor....

First, here's the theoretical "new" lineup if such a trade were to occur:

Curry - Bradley
Nowitzki - Najera - Fortson
Walker - Howard - Robinson
Rose - Delk
Crawford - Best

That really doesn't do much for me. In fact, I hate the idea of giving up Nash in this package. Ape's assessment of Curry is right on. I'd rather have Chandler, too, but he definitely would cost you Nash. For Chandler, I might be more interested in that discussion.

Rod1975
11-06-2003, 01:41 PM
It's just plain stupid to think of trading Steve Nash without getting Gary Payton or Jason Kidd in return.

Jamal Crawford? Ford is an idiot, sure Crawford is poised for a breakout season, but Jamal is a young checkers player,
yet Steve is a veteran chess player.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-06-2003, 02:06 PM
This trade idea by Chad Ford doesn't help the Mavs much. trade 2 of the BIG 3 AND Antawn Jamison for 3 unproven players and a person who wants a 100 field goal opportunities a night??? I don't see Mark Cuban even considering this trade idea

Max Power
11-06-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
This trade idea by Chad Ford doesn't help the Mavs much. trade 2 of the BIG 3 AND Antawn Jamison for 3 unproven players and a person who wants a 100 field goal opportunities a night??? I don't see Mark Cuban even considering this trade idea

I wouldn't consider it a good trade either. Why take such a large step back? Granted we MAY be better in a couple of years but still...

jayC
11-06-2003, 02:23 PM
Crawford is a younger nash. Rose is just as a prolific scorer as nash. I like Curry and still think he can be a beast, but like a lot of other players we have he isn't a dominant defensive player. Id just like to see things through 30 games or so before I pull another deal. Chemistry takes time to build.

Jamisonite
11-06-2003, 02:35 PM
im tired of hearing everyone say how BAD we need a big man. You know what we NEED. We NEED a ball hawk. Someone that will shut down the best perimeter player the other team has. Every game this season the other teams best 2 or 3 has dropped 20+ on us. Stevenson isnt that good a player and he killed us. Wallace wasnt in the league last year and he killed us. And i dont even wanna talk about how washingtons back court just bent us over. That what we need. Bruce Bown, Doug Christie, someone like that

Murphy3
11-06-2003, 02:37 PM
im tired of hearing everyone say how BAD we need a big man. You know what we NEED. We NEED a ball hawk. Someone that will shut down the best perimeter player the other team has. Every game this season the other teams best 2 or 3 has dropped 20+ on us. Stevenson isnt that good a player and he killed us. Wallace wasnt in the league last year and he killed us. And i dont even wanna talk about how washingtons back court just bent us over. That what we need. Bruce Bown, Doug Christie, someone like that

Perhaps Josh Howard will be this 'ball hawk' that you're talking about.

nowitzki_prophecy
11-06-2003, 02:54 PM
Jalen Rose is exactly what we dont need,he's a very selfish player who doens't like to share,and doesn't have much going for him beside the occasional Jump Shot.
I dont see him getting along with our rotation.

Curry is an excellent post player,but isn't that great on the defensive end,he's better than anything we got on the post,but that doesn't say much and certainly isn't a sufficent reason to trade away your western All Star PG.

I would like to see a trade for Jermaine Oneal,and with how things went down in the off season,i think its not that far-fatched.
He isn't too thrilled about about Bird firing Isiah Thomas and openly said a trade is an option,Bird said that if a good proposal arise,its defenitly an option.
If we could swing a trade for Jermaine and still Keep Dirk,Nash and Walker,i cant see us lacking for anything.

Bookit
11-06-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by: Murphy3

im tired of hearing everyone say how BAD we need a big man. You know what we NEED. We NEED a ball hawk. Someone that will shut down the best perimeter player the other team has. Every game this season the other teams best 2 or 3 has dropped 20+ on us. Stevenson isnt that good a player and he killed us. Wallace wasnt in the league last year and he killed us. And i dont even wanna talk about how washingtons back court just bent us over. That what we need. Bruce Bown, Doug Christie, someone like that

Perhaps Josh Howard will be this 'ball hawk' that you're talking about.


I would like to see this. Everyone is shooting lights out against us and realistically, Josh is shooting as well as Fin at this point.

madape
11-06-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by: nowitzki_prophecy
Jalen Rose is exactly what we dont need,he's a very selfish player who doens't like to share,and doesn't have much going for him beside the occasional Jump Shot.

I'll have to disagree with you. Rose is as extremely versatile player. Not only does he have incredible range, he can take people off the dribble like we only WISH Finley could do. He's one of the quicker guys of his size. He's a great passer and sees the floor well. If you remember, he's played point guard in this league. He'd be much better in the Maverick half court set than Finley, who is known for dribbling the ball into opponents hands or throwing the ball away. If you put him on the floor with Nash, Dirk, Antoine, I think we'd have one of the most devastating passing teams ever to hit the NBA hardwood. Plus, he's a better defender than Finley. There used to be a compelling argument, Rose vs. Fin. Rose was the more versatile, triple threat kind of player. Finley was the more explosive, high-glying type. Now that Finley's lost a bit of his athleticism, I don't know if you can logically say he's a better player.

kingrex
11-06-2003, 03:15 PM
This is a bad trade for the Mavs. We are giving way too much for a lot of unknowns. We have the guys with Curry's ability to post-up right here already. Nellie just needs to start downlow on some offensive sets rather than on the wing like we often do. Dirk can post (with more opportunities). Jamison can post (also with more chances). Finally, lest we forget, when Finley was played more at the 2, he would routinely post against smaller guards. This trade is not only unnecessary, it is 2 steps back for one step forward.

nowitzki_prophecy
11-06-2003, 03:18 PM
I'll have to disagree with you. Rose is as extremely versatile player. Not only does he have incredible range, he can take people off the dribble like we only WISH Finley could do. He's one of the quicker guys of his size. He's a great passer and sees the floor well. If you remember, he's played point guard in this league. He'd be much better in the Maverick half court set than Finley, who is known for dribbling the ball into opponents hands or throwing the ball away. If you put him on the floor with Nash, Dirk, Antoine, I think we'd have one of the most devastating passing teams ever to hit the NBA hardwood. Plus, he's a better defender than Finley. There used to be a compelling argument, Rose vs. Fin. Rose was the more versatile, triple threat kind of player. Finley was the more explosive, high-glying type. Now that Finley's lost a bit of his athleticism, I don't know if you can logically say he's a better player.

Lets assume he's a better fit than Mike,its still doesn't make this trade worth while.
Finding a PG in Nash's calibre is almost as hard as finding a good center,and Nash is the exact fit for us and im having a hard time seeing a different PG opening.
Unless you could get JK,i doubt there's a point guard that could drive the Mavs as good as Steve.
Further more,though it might seem a bit idiotic,Nash and Dirk are best friends,and i think we heard Dirk telling Mark if he trades Steve,he'll have to trade him too.

madape
11-06-2003, 03:22 PM
I'm with you there. Nash isn't going anywhere.

seelenjaeger
11-06-2003, 03:31 PM
Just to raise another question:

Which Mavs trade EVER was discussed before in the Media?

I know that both AJ and AW have been involved in rumours on this board, but Mavs tend to do mindmoving trades which have NOT been talked about in the media.

So

Forgeddaboutit.

FilthyFinMavs
11-06-2003, 03:36 PM
The only people who like this trade are the people who hate that Dirk doesn't shoot 20 shots a game. I mean this trade is horrible. All Curry has is potential. He can't play defense nor can he be a presence on hte defensive end. All he has is offense. We have offense. We don't need anymore. Thats our main problem now. We have too much offense and don't know how to utilize it right. You don't get any defensive players just guys who basically do what Fin, Jamison, and Nash do right now. No, I take that back. Those guys can't even do what Jamison, Fin, and Nash are capable of doing. I just don't get why you want to subtract the Mavs lineup with the Bulls. The bulls suck.

Murphy3
11-06-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
The only people who like this trade are the people who hate that Dirk doesn't shoot 20 shots a game. I mean this trade is horrible. All Curry has is potential. He can't play defense nor can he be a presence on hte defensive end. All he has is offense. We have offense. We don't need anymore. Thats our main problem now. We have too much offense and don't know how to utilize it right. You don't get any defensive players just guys who basically do what Fin, Jamison, and Nash do right now. No, I take that back. Those guys can't even do what Jamison, Fin, and Nash are capable of doing. I just don't get why you want to subtract the Mavs lineup with the Bulls. The bulls suck.

I really don't see much of anyone that likes this trade...maybe a couple of people.
Yet, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people that have spoken in this thread believe that Dirk should get around 20 attempts per game...(maybe closer to 18-19)

It's not about liking dirk and trading people away so that he can get his numbers. It's about doing what's best so the Mavs can ultimately compete for and win a title. This trade simply doesn't do the trick IMO. Now, that doesn't mean that a few tweaks couldn't be made to make it more of an even trade.

kg_veteran
11-06-2003, 03:45 PM
If you could trick the Bulls into Finley and Jamison for Rose and Chandler, I'd be all for that.

Chandler - Bradley
Nowitzki - Najera
Walker - Howard
Rose - Daniels
Nash - Delk

That seems to be a much improved defensive team without losing any offensive steam.

*Prepares to be flamed*

FineCubanCigar
11-06-2003, 03:55 PM
yeah, im with kg on this one.

seelenjaeger
11-06-2003, 04:08 PM
I donīt want Rose.

How about ...

Finley, Jamison to Chicago

Jay Williams (one of the reasons Chicago does this deal), Chandler, Fizer, Robinson to Dallas from Chicago

Donyell Marshall from Chicago to Utah for 1-2 2nd round picks (one each from Dallas and Chicago)

Dallas:

Nash, Delk, Walker, Nowitzki, Chandler

with

Best, Howard, Robinson, Fizer, Bradley, Najera, Fortson off the Bench
and
Jay Williams, TaW and one out of Stefansson / Daniels on the IR

Chicago:

Crawford, Rose, Finley, Jamison, Curry

with

Hinrich, Pippen, Blount and some forwards off the bench.

(Utah included for cap reasons - Dallas would receive a Trade exception which (a) saves money or (b) can be packaged with TaW or Najera for another big trade)

There might be a way to trade Walker instead of Jamison, but itīs far more complicated.

kg_veteran
11-06-2003, 04:13 PM
Why does Chicago want to dump Jay Williams? He might actually be able to come back and play at some point (doubtful), and it's not like he has a huge contract.

As for the other guys, I'd much rather have Rose than Fizer and Robinson.

In fact, the first trade, you come out well. Your suggested trade, you lose.

seelenjaeger
11-06-2003, 04:23 PM
Why would Chicago want to part with Jay?

Because they already have Jamal and Hinrich. They didnīt draft Hinrich for nothing. Theyīd try to get rid of Jay as soon as possible if they only find a taker.

Why Iīd take Fizer+Robinson+Trade Exception over Rose?

Because Rose is an idiot, and you can package the Trade Exception with one of our dumpies for another player. In addition, you save money.

In addition:

You take some gamble on Jay. If he gets healthy again, hooray, you solved the backup and prolly the heritage issue on Nash. If not - you might not have to worry about his money, since it would either come off the books fast or would be paid by the insurance (or maybe even Williams himself, depending how his legal issues work out).

kg_veteran
11-06-2003, 04:34 PM
You take the trade exception and a couple of guys that would struggle to get minutes here; I'll take the guy with ability.

Let's face it -- I don't think Chicago would give up Chandler and Rose for Finley and Jamison. If they would, Cuban would do it faster than you can say, "Chalupa."

seelenjaeger
11-06-2003, 04:38 PM
Actually Iīd do quite alot to get my hands on Chandler myself ... (NOT THIS WAY) ... for the Mavs! so I cannot even blame him. I just would try to avoid Rose ...

kg_veteran
11-06-2003, 04:40 PM
Honestly, I'm just looking at a deal that could fill two needs at once.

If you just want to focus on Chandler, that's fine. He's gonna be hard to come by. I don't know how expensive he'd really be, given his age and rapid improvement.

dirk2003
11-06-2003, 05:56 PM
God, does anyone else here hate the idea that the only starter left from last season after that trade would be Dirk? I love this team for winning and for its players. I'm not sure I want to give up everything we had last season. I dont want the Mavs to be separated and only have one left. That really sucks.

jayC
11-09-2003, 09:28 PM
On chandler I was like is he really a beast well he might be.
CHI 5 5 31.8 17-41 .415 0-0 .000 30-36 .833 4.40 8.60 13.00 1.2 .20 2.00 1.20 3.00 12.8





Ranks #16 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game(2.0) Ranks #8 in the NBA in Free Throws(30.0)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(36.0) Ranks #8 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(22.0)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(4.4) Ranks #14 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(43.0)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(8.6) Ranks #12 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(65.0)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Double-doubles(3.0)


Chandler is the young big man the mavs need not curry.

mavsfan4life
11-09-2003, 09:52 PM
Personal attacks are not acceptable.

bogey
11-09-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by: mavsfan4life
u will always be a virgin

Are you going to actually contribute one day?

jayC
11-09-2003, 11:49 PM
personal attack mods!