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View Full Version : Finley, Jamison to Portland? Say it aint so!


mavs413
11-08-2003, 09:25 PM
According to NBAtv:

Finley
Jamison

for

Wells
Wallace

ReDIRKulous
11-08-2003, 09:26 PM
This must be a bad joke.

MavsFanFinley
11-08-2003, 09:30 PM
How funny. I just posted this trade in the new trade/draft forum earlier today.

mavs413
11-08-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
This must be a bad joke.

They said the source was from Dallas and that the trade is awaiting league approval.
Im not joking, i heard it from NBAtv.
But if it were true why would Finley and Jamison play in this game?? Do they know??
Did the trade happen during the game???

Misfit Mav
11-08-2003, 09:32 PM
Wow. If this is true, I really think the revolving-door trade policy is getting out of hand. I'm afraid that everybody on the team is going to play poorly with the contstant threat of a trade hanging over their heads. Hopefully we can stabilize the roster soon.

I have nothing more to say because I am too shocked. I will really miss Fin if this is true.

harsh euro barge
11-08-2003, 09:33 PM
ughhh......take my initial feeling after the Antoine Walker trade and multiply by 1000

Mandyahl
11-08-2003, 09:33 PM
if this is true, this is terrible. that ruins my night.

harsh euro barge
11-08-2003, 09:35 PM
shhh.....don't tell tell Fin and Jamison while the game's going on

ReDIRKulous
11-08-2003, 09:35 PM
If it is true i bet Nellie told Fin about it a long time ago. Fin is such a good guy he probably took it in perfect stride.

I'll say it again in this thread...

Rasheed, Dirk, Walker, Bonzi, Nash.

That is frightening.



If this group can get along they could do anything.

Fin and JAmison are great guys though. But we need someone over 6'10.

This is the price you pay.

AdamAMMP
11-08-2003, 09:38 PM
If this happens, I'm offically a Blazer fan.

mavs413
11-08-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl
if this is true, this is terrible. that ruins my night.

Cuban just said that the trade was not true. THank GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

harsh euro barge
11-08-2003, 09:40 PM
YAY?

MavsFanFinley
11-08-2003, 09:41 PM
Makes sense as Portland made attempts at both Finley and Jamison over the summer.

Not sure what Dallas is thinking, but it wouldn't be a surprise that they'd be making another big trade.

Strange that all 4 guys are playing tonight. Wouldn't they be sitting to avoid a possible injury?

Mandyahl
11-08-2003, 09:41 PM
wait, on tv he did? i am so confused...so is it just a rumor or what? and how close is this to being true? because if that happened, i don't know what i would do. it would make it awfully hard to root for the mavs.

mavs413
11-08-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl
wait, on tv he did? i am so confused...so is it just a rumor or what? and how close is this to being true? because if that happened, i don't know what i would do. it would make it awfully hard to root for the mavs.

Yeah, the game is being broadcast on NBAtv right now and they said they talked to Cuban and Mark said they trade was NOT TRUE.

MavsFanFinley
11-08-2003, 09:47 PM
Sorry, but I'm not going to take Cuban's word for it.

Of course he'll say it's not true if it's still awaiting NBA approval.

ReDIRKulous
11-08-2003, 09:50 PM
Mark is very very sneaky though, did he specufically say "there is NO trade at all"?

Or did he say..."those reports are incorrect" or something? Maybe the people involved are wrong? Because MArk doesn't like to announce something until it is absolutely completed. It would be funny if this whole thing came from that Karl quote and that Karl was totally talking out of his ace and knew absolutely nothing. Just jabbering.

Murphy3
11-08-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Sorry, but I'm not going to take Cuban's word for it.

Of course he'll say it's not true if it's still awaiting NBA approval.

I'm not sure that he'd do that MFF...what's more likely is this... if Cuban made that offer to Portland and they turned it down, Cuban would say that the Mavs never had any interest in making a trade with Portland

LRB
11-08-2003, 09:58 PM
I sinerely hope this trade is nothing more than a bogus rumor. If not the Dallas PD better start beefing up their narcotics division.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:01 PM
I hear that the trade was reported on Portland TV by Blazer fans... on the news.. don't know how much truth is to it, but it's just what i saw on some of the NBA message boards..and that the trade is pending league approval.

Fidel
11-08-2003, 10:03 PM
This belongs into the new trade forum, so I moved it.


If this trade became reality Id probably hope that the Mavs would trade Dirk to any other team I can root for. I`m not sure I could root for a team that features Walker, Wallace and Wells.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:04 PM
nice job Fidel your right, it does belong in a trade forum, until it's official.

Simon2
11-08-2003, 10:07 PM
This happens. The Mavs get about 22 mil of the books next season. Wow! Just throw away any chance of getting anywhere into the playoffs.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:08 PM
Saturday, November 08, 2003

Trade rumor
Have the Blazers found a willing taker for Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells? Noting the sullen mood and empty seats in the Rose Garden this season, Mike Barrett and Mike Rice revealed the Mavericks may have an offer on the table to the Blazers Saturday on the Blazers' pre-game show.

Rice and Barrett reported the Mavericks are willing to send PF/SF Antawn Jamison and SG Michael Finley to Portland in exchange for Wallace and Wells.

The trade appears to work under the collective bargaining agreement. However, Finley and Jamison both have huge contracts (check their salaries) with several years remaining.

Barrett and Rice noted Dallas is probably one of the few teams willing to take these two on (Wells and Wallace) and give quality in return. Rice indicated he thinks the ball is in the Blazers' court.

info from Oregon Live.com

Simon2
11-08-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by: Simon2
This happens. The Mavs get about 22 mil of the books next season. Wow! Just throw away any chance of getting anywhere into the playoffs.

I mean "If" this happens.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:10 PM
OK now i hear it was reported on Fox 4 news? Deal to be official on monday...?

dirno2000
11-08-2003, 10:13 PM
I think the Mavs would get the talent edge in that trade. I don't think I'd trade two good guys for two bad guys though. The talent upgrade is not that great.

Of course Cuban could be looking at the financial aspect. Wallace is about to be a free agent and will have to take a paycut at the end of the season.

Simon2
11-08-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
OK now i hear it was reported on Fox 4 news? Deal to be official on monday...?

No way! That can't be.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by: Simon2

Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
OK now i hear it was reported on Fox 4 news? Deal to be official on monday...?

No way! That can't be.

I'm just writing what i keep hearing.. don't know if it's all fact..

LRB
11-08-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
OK now i hear it was reported on Fox 4 news? Deal to be official on monday...?

OK guys just stop it right now. You're making me nauseous. i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

Murphy3
11-08-2003, 10:18 PM
still wouldn't be enough balls to go around..but the mavs would have more attitude in exchange for two wonderful b'ball players and human beings..

hmmm

Simon2
11-08-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan

Originally posted by: Simon2

Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
OK now i hear it was reported on Fox 4 news? Deal to be official on monday...?

No way! That can't be.

I'm just writing what i keep hearing.. don't know if it's all fact..

Lol! Trying to surf the channels to see if I can find anything.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by: Simon2

Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan

Originally posted by: Simon2

Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
OK now i hear it was reported on Fox 4 news? Deal to be official on monday...?

No way! That can't be.

I'm just writing what i keep hearing.. don't know if it's all fact..

Lol! Trying to surf the channels to see if I can find anything.

LOL ME TOO!, it would be nuts if this was one heck of a trade RUMOR

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:23 PM
HMM Nbc 5 says the Mavs say there is no such deal, but we'll keep you posted

Simon2
11-08-2003, 10:26 PM
ESPN radio just reported that they talked to Cuban and Cuban denied the trade. Thank God!

jayC
11-08-2003, 10:31 PM
I can see both sides to this trade. The mavs need someone that can knock someone on their asses like Rasheed would do for the mavs. On the other hand this could be a failed experiment waiting to happen.

AdamAMMP
11-08-2003, 10:34 PM
would rather have Dale Davis then Wells

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-08-2003, 10:36 PM
Most of the time Management will deny trade rumors, if the deal isn't complete. The Nba offices open on Monday morning.. so IMO i think the Mavs will only say a trade is done when it's done, and not pending... I just think it's odd that George Karl says that Rasheed will look good in a Mavs uniform, then the next day , alot of news outlets say a trade is done.

Don't know what to think about the "trade" at the moment, but trading Fin is a huge move... that could cause the Mavs to lose alot of fans, especially when your bringing in 2 players known for causing issues with the team they were on. I think as far as talent goes, the Mavs get a HUGE upgrade, if not on the Offensive side, then on the Defensive side. The Mavs could have someone, IMO that can realistically put a body on Tim Duncan or Chris Webber in Wallace and a SF who isn't afraid to drive to the hole, and won't settle for a jumpshot when they can drive and convert . It's a big gamble to bring in players like these, I really hope Nellie Jr knows what he's doing if this rumor is true.

Nash13
11-08-2003, 10:44 PM
Actually, Wells has never been convicted of anything, he just has a horrible attitude on the court. I'd love to have Wells on this team, but not at the expense of Finley and/or Jamison.

To tell the truth, this really doesn't seem like a bad idea. This could make "good guys" out of Wells and Wallace, and hopefully Finley and Jamison can make "good guys" out of the trailblazers.

Also, Wells and Wallace are used to playing on a team with a whole lot of talent. Wallace has been taking stat cuts for the last two years, and it'll get worse when Randolph starts living up to the hype.

MavsFanFinley
11-08-2003, 10:53 PM
Dallas:

Wallace/Bradley/Fortson
Dirk/Najera
Walker/TAW
Wells/Delk/Howard
Nash/Best/Daniels/Stefansson

Portland:

Davis/Stepania/Boumtje
Randolph
Jamison/Woods/Patterson/Outlaw
Finley/Anderson/Murray
Stoudamire/McInnis

Murphy3
11-08-2003, 10:57 PM
The Mavs would be better defensively and would have a little more attitude..
but, it's possible that it could be 'too much' attitude.

I can see reasons to like and dislike this rumored trade.

Murphy3
11-08-2003, 10:58 PM
Unfortunately, Cuban and Nellie have been so deceptive in the past that it's difficult to believe anything that comes out of either of their mouths..

LRB
11-08-2003, 11:06 PM
I seriously wonder how Nellie would deal with those two personalities. I could also see either Bonzi or Rasheed pulling a Latrell on Nellie on some of the quirky moves he makes.

FilthyFinMavs
11-08-2003, 11:09 PM
Can someone tell me why? Why do we do this trade? We still don't get a big man but we trade Fin and Jamison just for the hell of it? There are just some trades you don't do.

Murphy3
11-08-2003, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Can someone tell me why? Why do we do this trade? We still don't get a big man but we trade Fin and Jamison just for the hell of it? There are just some trades you don't do.

more athletic..better defensively..more attitude.

but, obviously, there's several reasons to balk at this trade as well

Just211
11-08-2003, 11:22 PM
i can see getting one or the other, but i'd be weary of getting both. One bad attitude is easy to deal with, but TWO. that's a huge risk.
BUT the Mavs would win the talent side of the trade by a landslide.
Its obvious why they'd want sheed, but Wells would be a huge additon. He provides something we all agree the MAvs need, a penetrating scorer..

And the Main negative is losing FIN. A HUGE fan fav, and great leader, for 2 guys who don't seem to care. I really don't care if they smoke a pound of weed on the off days, but sometimes they look like they could care less on the court. that bothers me. (but sometimes i think Dirk looks like he could care less, too, so hopefully I'm wrong, and they're just SO good they make it look boring)

MavsFanFinley
11-08-2003, 11:22 PM
A couple reasons I see the Mavs making the deal.

1) They unload two max contracts in Finley and Jamison.

2) They rent Wallace for the year. They may try to resign him if he takes a pay cut. Plus, he'll display more toughness than Jamison. With him playing center, it allows Dirk to play the 4 where he is at his best. He has a post-up game, but can nail the 3. He screams Nellie player.

3) Not sure where Wells fits in. He's cheaper than Fin and his contract is 2 years shorter. He'll display a toughness Finley doesn't. Not the good kind either. He can post-up, drives to the hoop, but I can't remember his 3-point shot. Not sure why he'd be given plays that Fin wouldn't.

Nash13
11-08-2003, 11:36 PM
I think this is a good trade. If this trade were to happen, people would eventually see why this was a good trade.

It is creeping me out when i was thinking earlier today if we were to trade Finley, would we get equal value. This is the best value that we probably would've gotten for Finley.

Also this will put another player on this team that is taller than 6'8. And there's a good chance that Dirk will be a full time center since Wallace will be guarding the Garnetts and the Webbers and the Duncans.

What it comes down to is would you rather have a good PF/C rotation, or a better SF/SG rotation?

Nash13
11-08-2003, 11:39 PM
MFF, i don't know about Wells' 3pt shooting, but i know he didn't do too bad for himself against the Mavs last year.

Murphy3
11-08-2003, 11:43 PM
fin was much better three point shooter last year...

career,
fin's a 35.6%
Wells is a 34.6%

Max Power
11-08-2003, 11:46 PM
If this trade happens then I'm happy for Finley and Jamison but unhappy for the Dallas Mavericks.

SaltwaterChaffy
11-08-2003, 11:49 PM
Chiwas said earlier that he heard it had been reported on fox 4. has anybody actually heard it, first-hand, reported anywhere, other than the NBA TV broadcast? As i recall, FWST reported the Jamison trade first. I haven't seen or heard anything about this other than on this board.

Fidel
11-08-2003, 11:53 PM
Talent and money wise this deal makes alot of sense. Like MFF said with Wallace playing center Dirk could play the majority of time at PF where he fits much better. Bonzi is a little inconsistent but he brings toughness to the backcourt and he can penetrate and finish. Wallace is an enigma. If he could somehow shake that off (stop smoking so much weed would probably do the trick) he could be a top 10 player in the league. Money wise wed get rid of Fins contract (which is clearly too high) and another max contract with Jamison.

But and thats a big BUT, Sheed and Bonzi are jerks. They dont really care about the game, and even if they bring some of that tough attitude they also bring alot of bad attitude. I dont know how Nash and Dirk would take it if they had to play with Walker, Wallace, Wells.

And me Im really not sure if I could root for a team featuring these kind of players. Walker alone makes it hard enough, now they want to add Sheed and Bonzi? How about waiting until dec. 21st and ship out Walker instead? That would be much more to my liking.

u2sarajevo
11-08-2003, 11:56 PM
I was listening to the 103.3 radio broadcast after the game and they denied this rumor.

I know that is not definitive, but hopefully they know the truth because I would be PO'ed if this did occur.

FreshJive
11-08-2003, 11:58 PM
Someone on another message board says that a per a Cuban email the deal is dead because Portaland has decided they are not willing to take on Fin and Jamison's contracts.

Just211
11-08-2003, 11:58 PM
what sucks is how often you hear Mavs fans say they don't want to get a too many stars , and become like Portland,
well, if this went down, Dallas <u>would</u> be PORTLAND

ames7
11-09-2003, 12:02 AM
I was watching the SA broadcast here in Austin & they reported the same info, same denial from Cuban. I haven't seen a thing in print & I don't think Cuban would deny it like that on TV if it was going to happen.

If it were to happen, I wouldn't quite know what to think. It sort of makes sense, w/Wallace. I think Finley would probably do a lot better on other teams than he does here. I don't think I'd like losing Jamison in this deal.

Fidel
11-09-2003, 12:06 AM
On another note if portland doesnt do that deal because of contract issues they are nuts. Talk about a complete makover. Theyd get rid of two of the biggest troublemakers on the team and theyd replace them with two guys who are as classy as they come. They wont get a better deal for Sheed and Bonzi and that move alone should raise their attendance again.

LRB
11-09-2003, 12:11 AM
Mavs say no trade on table (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/sports/basketball/mavs/stories/110903dnspomavsbriefs.40227.html)

Wallace-Wells reports


11:59 PM CST on Saturday, November 8, 2003

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

SAN ANTONIO The Mavericks vigorously denied that they were working on any trade with the Portland Trail Blazers after reports circulated in Portland that a deal had been consummated.

Just moments after the Mavericks had beaten San Antonio on Saturday, owner Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson scoffed at the trade, which reportedly would have sent Antawn Jamison and Michael Finley to Portland for Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells.

"It's bull," Cuban said. "There's absolutely no reason to make a change. We want this team to stay together and play together. We got a great, great, great group of guys."

Told that reports in Portland said that the deal was waiting only for approval by Cuban and Blazers owner Paul Allen, Cuban said: "It's not going to happen. The only call I'm making is to the NBA office about the referees in this game."

Blazers executives have been growing tired of their players' reputation as a team full of ne'er-do-wells and are hoping to revamp their image. Finley and Jamison are two of the most respected players in the league in that regard.

But both have huge contracts that stretch well into the future and would put as much as a $124 million drain on the Blazers' salary cap over the next four seasons.

When Nelson was asked about the deal he simply laughed.

"And you can quote me on that laugh," he said.

The Mavericks' reputation as wheelers and dealers certainly made the trade believable in spite of the thuggish reputation of Wallace, who holds the record for most technical fouls in a season and who has feuded often with teammates and management.

Wells was fined $10,000 last week for making an obscene gesture at fans during a game.

"It's like a lot of things said by the media made up," Cuban said.

MavsFanFinley
11-09-2003, 12:13 AM
Portland would be getting rid of 2 of the 4 headcases on that team. They'd only have to worry about Stoudamire and Patterson.

ReDIRKulous
11-09-2003, 12:13 AM
If Portland was the one to back out of this deal they are complete morons.

Tony tha Mavs fan
11-09-2003, 12:15 AM
well, theres the answer to the trade rumors LOL

SaltwaterChaffy
11-09-2003, 12:16 AM
all I can say is thank goodness. I really think that talent wise, it is an upgrade. However, just thinking about this trade actually happening has made me realize that I really do not want to lose Fin unless it is for a monster deal. Though he isn't playing well so far this season, he is and always will be a huge member of the Dallas Mavericks. I also agree with the above sentiment that I don't think Nash and Dirk would fit in well with the personalities of Walker, Sheed, and Wells. I get the feeling that those 3 would begin to form the personality of this team, as opposed to our current Big 3.

I'm going to say now that even if this does make us a better team, I am firmly against this trade. Unless Fin and some combination can get us a big man, just say no to trading Fin.

ReDIRKulous
11-09-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by: LRB
Mavs say no trade on table (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/sports/basketball/mavs/stories/110903dnspomavsbriefs.40227.html)

Wallace-Wells reports


11:59 PM CST on Saturday, November 8, 2003

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

SAN ANTONIO The Mavericks vigorously denied that they were working on any trade with the Portland Trail Blazers after reports circulated in Portland that a deal had been consummated.

Just moments after the Mavericks had beaten San Antonio on Saturday, owner Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson scoffed at the trade, which reportedly would have sent Antawn Jamison and Michael Finley to Portland for Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells.

"It's bull," Cuban said. "There's absolutely no reason to make a change. We want this team to stay together and play together. We got a great, great, great group of guys."

Told that reports in Portland said that the deal was waiting only for approval by Cuban and Blazers owner Paul Allen, Cuban said: "It's not going to happen. The only call I'm making is to the NBA office about the referees in this game."

Blazers executives have been growing tired of their players' reputation as a team full of ne'er-do-wells and are hoping to revamp their image. Finley and Jamison are two of the most respected players in the league in that regard.

But both have huge contracts that stretch well into the future and would put as much as a $124 million drain on the Blazers' salary cap over the next four seasons.

When Nelson was asked about the deal he simply laughed.

"And you can quote me on that laugh," he said.

The Mavericks' reputation as wheelers and dealers certainly made the trade believable in spite of the thuggish reputation of Wallace, who holds the record for most technical fouls in a season and who has feuded often with teammates and management.

Wells was fined $10,000 last week for making an obscene gesture at fans during a game.

"It's like a lot of things said by the media made up," Cuban said.

Well... this does it for me. I think this was BS. Though I wonder what the hell George Karl was talking about. He was probably just babbling. He needs to be more careful though. lol

I bet the deal never involved Finley... that is probably why Nellie was laughing. I bet Portland wanted Finley and I bet the Mavs are always throwing ideas out there to Portland... but this is probably a fantasy Portland GM scenario. I bet everyone low balls Portland constantly because they know how desperate they are.

MavsFanFinley
11-09-2003, 12:22 AM
I'll wait until the deadlines pass before I believe Cuban or Nelson.

ReDIRKulous
11-09-2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I'll wait until the deadlines pass before I believe Cuban or Nelson.

I don't think this deal is for real. If they were really, seriously working on a deal I think they just wouldn't say anything. I doubt they would deny it this much.

Also... there is one thing that makes this not sound like Nellie deal... Portland isn't getting fleeced. The deal is too even. lol It must be Portland's idea.

EricaLubarsky
11-09-2003, 12:37 AM
okay here is why we shouldnt do the trade
1) What we give up
2) the sh$tty attitude of the Jailblazers
3)our chemistry- we are already having problems

What we would gain

1) Rasheed Wallace- a 29 year old 6'10" forward/center who drifts like LaF, but plays better D, shoots the three better, makes his own shots better, defends big men, brings attitude, and did I say play D?
2) Bonzi Wells- a 27 year old 6'5" guard/forward who plays good D, who is a phenomenal scorer and an above average passer. He also shoots the three fairly well (uh oh don't listen to me Nellie) and does well in the clutch. Most notably he can tear apart the defense of an opposing team with his cuts.

However, the sheer talent of these two does nothing if they bring their crap to Dallas. They already waste a lot of their talent in Portland. Also Nellie is a great coach in many areas but he has never done well with attitudes and big men. Let me say that again, "he has never done well with attitudes and big men"

Fidel
11-09-2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I'll wait until the deadlines pass before I believe Cuban or Nelson.
Ditto.

u2sarajevo
11-09-2003, 12:41 AM
You know Erica.... about the chemistry thing. I think if we are dead set on making a trade, two things should define that trade:

1. We do it now, as we work on chemistry issues. If we are going to go through these pains, I don't want a repeat in February.
2. It be for a big man... or at least someone that can replace Dirk's minutes at Center.

Max Power
11-09-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Also Nellie is a great coach in many areas but he has never done well with attitudes and big men. Let me say that again, "he has never done well with attitudes and big men"

Sprewell never gave Nellie any trouble. The only player I can think of that was impossible for Nellie to control was Webber and he went through several coaches and a couple of trades before he clicked.

EricaLubarsky
11-09-2003, 12:52 AM
well if it is a big man we need and we are giving up on a pure center- Wallace is a beast. He plays the same floaty-game that Lafrentz did but he is better in absolutely every category....

FilthyFinMavs
11-09-2003, 01:13 AM
If you are the Mavs why do you trade with another potential playoff contender? The last I heard the Blazers need attitude adjustments. We take on 50% of that problem and bring it to Dallas. That just makes no sense. Talent wise its there. THe Mavs get the better talent. But thus far that has always been the case and so far this season we haven't got our team playing team ball yet. Why do we confuse a team already confused as it is? If the trade were to happen i'd be happy for Fin and Jamison. If the Mavs did the deal I believe last year was our last time enjoying the playoffs and getting out of the 1st round.


BTW, when did Rasheed Wallace learn to play defense?

EricaLubarsky
11-09-2003, 01:20 AM
last time I checked Sheed was better than LaF, who he would be replacing. He's always had the skill, he's just rarely had the resolve.

agreeing with you though, we were probably the worst team last year talent-wise (after LAL, SAC, SAN, POR) and we won based on our sharp play. Thats what is so strange about all these trades- we made it to the WCF with very little overall talent and miniscule depth.

We are undeniably now the deepest team in the league and we have some of the top players (Jamison, Nash, Walker, Nowitzki) but should we have messed with a team that was a 60-22 WCF team last year? Theres just a lot of risk to splitting up that team and adding new threats to our chemistry (like Fort, Walker and now Sheed and Wells).

Of course this is all rediculous as the trade isnt happening....

Dirkenstien
11-09-2003, 02:04 AM
perhaps the laugh and denial by dallas management is at the prospect of shipping finley out of here. I dont think cuban will ship out any of our big three ... possibly walker and jamison ..i could see somethin like that. There obviously must be some type of conversation going on between the two teams though, atleast IMO. ....and someone leaked out a little too much info.

Cuban however, is a business man and can put on a mighty deceiving poker face ...this issue may have already been prepared for by cuban and Nellie ...seeing that they both were very determined to make it clear that this trade proposal is out of the question.

rtg
11-09-2003, 04:24 AM
This trade cant be true.
1. Portland is in rebuilding mode, why take on 2 big contracts?
2. Dallas needs to have the same group of players for more than 10 days at a time right?
3. Some times talent doesn't make up for tradeing a fan favorit.
4. Do the Blazers really want to play aginst Wallace 4 times per year?
5. Do the Mav's really want to play agains Finley 4 times per year?
6. Some fans may like this trade at first but just wait will Bonzi flips you off.

seelenjaeger
11-09-2003, 08:46 AM
Well - I wont comment on the trade itself, but this would be definately a move which tells a story: this IS Dirks team. And hes gonna get one buddy to lead the team, and the talent to win it. So he better wins it.

Ummmmm Ok
11-09-2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
How funny. I just posted this trade in the new trade/draft forum earlier today.


Well its now officially proven: The media/Mav Players read this board. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif They read what MFF wrote and "made" a story out of nothing. And to prove it, anybody notice that Finley had a fire under him going into the SA game. I think it had to do with him proving US wrong because WE said he should be traded.

So seeing this: DIRK YOU NEED TO TAKE MORE DAMN SHOTS. YOU ARE THE NUMBER 1 OPTION. LET THE TEAM EVOLVE AROUND YOU, YOU DON'T NEED TO "FIT" INTO THEIR SCHEME, THEY NEED TO FIT INTO YOURS. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

sike
11-09-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
How funny. I just posted this trade in the new trade/draft forum earlier today.


Well its now officially proven: The media/Mav Players read this board. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif They read what MFF wrote and "made" a story out of nothing. And to prove it, anybody notice that Finley had a fire under him going into the SA game. I think it had to do with him proving US wrong because WE said he should be traded.

So seeing this: DIRK YOU NEED TO TAKE MORE DAMN SHOTS. YOU ARE THE NUMBER 1 OPTION. LET THE TEAM EVOLVE AROUND YOU, YOU DON'T NEED TO "FIT" INTO THEIR SCHEME, THEY NEED TO FIT INTO YOURS. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

IN TOTAL AGREEMENT: with umm..

and as far as this trade is concerned, would PORT do the deal if the Mavs offered Walker instead of Jamsion? I see Walker as taking too many shots from Dirk....and Jamison i see as needing more touches......both could be accomplished with the removal of Walker!

it all may be dead point now, but it seems like trades like this that are romored now may have new life when teams are desperately looking for that extra piece at the deadline....so wait and see...the Mavs have pieces to trade..and those pieces will be of maximum value as teams try to make playoff pushes....

LRB
11-09-2003, 11:30 AM
I've got a question for everyone on this topic. If this trade were real, home much longer do you think it would set the Mavs back in jelling for this season?

Personally, I think that we would be at least 30 games into the season before we would have a decent chances of jelling.

MavsFanFinley
11-09-2003, 11:52 AM
LRB, it's hard enough to figure out how long it will take for the current team to get it together. I can't imagine the setback it would cause for the Mavs if the trade were true.

Not just on the court, but off as well.

I'm more worried about how it might effect Finley and Jamison's mindset? Finley has been rumored in so many trades he probably won't believe it until it's official. Jamison was just traded, then he's coming off the bench, and already rumored in another trade.

That has to mess with anybody some.

Dirk Nowitzki
11-09-2003, 12:22 PM
If this is true & Nellie wants to go small,
Nash
Delk
Wells
Dirk
Sheed
Thats a damn good blend of offense & defense. Throw in Walkers average to slightly above average D & Best, Bradley & Howard off of the bench & by late in the season or next season, we would be a decent to good defensive team without giving up any offense.

sike
11-09-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
I've got a question for everyone on this topic. If this trade were real, home much longer do you think it would set the Mavs back in jelling for this season?

Personally, I think that we would be at least 30 games into the season before we would have a decent chances of jelling.

LRB: I guess the better question is how many games are you (or better, the Mavs) willing to toss in order to have the best possible chance to win a ring?....

MFF: WOULDN'T BE TO concerned with mindset of Finley, he has been in trade talk for the past several seasons...

sike
11-09-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by: Dirk Nowitzki
If this is true & Nellie wants to go small,
Nash
Delk
Wells
Dirk
Sheed
Thats a damn good blend of offense & defense. Throw in Walkers average to slightly above average D & Best, Bradley & Howard off of the bench & by late in the season or next season, we would be a decent to good defensive team without giving up any offense.

dirk, if they traded Jamison, Walker would not come off the bench...he is not that type of guy....he needs touches, his ego to be stroked, and a starting spot to be happy.

Dirk Nowitzki
11-09-2003, 12:35 PM
I did not really mena start the game small, I was refering to an in game sub. If Nellie went small, as I stated above, we would actualy have some guys on the floor that enyoyed playing D.

LRB
11-09-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: LRB
I've got a question for everyone on this topic. If this trade were real, home much longer do you think it would set the Mavs back in jelling for this season?

Personally, I think that we would be at least 30 games into the season before we would have a decent chances of jelling.

LRB: I guess the better question is how many games are you (or better, the Mavs) willing to toss in order to have the best possible chance to win a ring?....

MFF: WOULDN'T BE TO concerned with mindset of Finley, he has been in trade talk for the past several seasons...

Sike, the question that I was really trying to ask is are we willing to throw away a chance to win this year for a possible better chance in future years? This trade wouldn't definitely throw away this years opportunity, but it would start to bring it into jeapordy if we took too long to jell. If we take too long we might not even make the playoffs. Unlikely, but not impossible.

sike
11-09-2003, 12:38 PM
I agree then, we would have a whole line that truely can play some authentic "D"....like a breath of fresh air....oh well, this trade won't happen now..wait until the deadline.

sike
11-09-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
[quote]
Originally posted by: sike
[quote]
Originally posted by: LRB This trade wouldn't definitely throw away this years opportunity, but it would start to bring it into jeapordy if we took too long to jell. If we take too long we might not even make the playoffs. Unlikely, but not impossible.
LRB,
you need to explain "why?" the trade would "throw away" this year??? what are you baseing this on???? is there any evidence to say that this trade would ruin team chemistry anymore that it seems to be right now...
or are you just speaking about logistics...it would take too much time to learn the system....(poor Fortson, he never will learn)

LRB
11-09-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: LRB
[quote]
Originally posted by: sike
[quote]
Originally posted by: LRB This trade wouldn't definitely throw away this years opportunity, but it would start to bring it into jeapordy if we took too long to jell. If we take too long we might not even make the playoffs. Unlikely, but not impossible.
LRB,
you need to explain "why?" the trade would "throw away" this year??? what are you baseing this on???? is there any evidence to say that this trade would ruin team chemistry anymore that it seems to be right now...
or are you just speaking about logistics...it would take too much time to learn the system....(poor Fortson, he never will learn)

If the trade did go through, we would basically have to start over in jelling as a team. There are some questions about the personalities of Bonzi and Rasheed that might make jelling more difficult. If this team takes too long to jell we will not have a good chance of getting homecourt advantage and in the extreme example not even making the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs we could very easily end up like Houston did the year they had Hakeem, Pippen, and Barkley together. The took too long to jell and didn't do anything in the playoffs. That team had serious chemistry issues. That would be a gamble on bringing in 2 known players with existing chemistry issues.

Murphy3
11-09-2003, 01:03 PM
There is the possibility that the Mavs organization doesn't believe that this current group will 'gel' in a manner that would truly give them the opportunity to compete for a title. Also, it's conceivable that even if this team does 'gel' and reaches it's potential that they STILL wouldn't be able to play enough defense to compete for the title as the West continues to improve.

Yes, it would be a risky move. But, it could have greater rewards than the current group. However, it could also have the potential to blow up in the Mavs' face (similar to the current group)

How long would it take to gel? Yes, it would take longer. However, I'm willing to bet that the team would at least consistently play better defense while they were attempting to gel on the offensive side.

Is it worth taking a look at this trade? of course
Is it worth making the deal?...alot of issues to discuss both pro and con

echo
11-09-2003, 02:03 PM
I know this trade is probably only rumour, but I have no doubt the Mavs are interested in Sheed. I'm interested in Sheed! Yes he has baggage and yes he has an attitude, but there isn't another big man available who could make the impact Sheed could. Sorry folks Jermaine O'Neal and Ben Wallace are not available this year!

This rumoured deal also makes a lot of sense salary cap wise. Sheed would get one year to prove his worth, and if chemistry issues existed he would be sign-and-trade material next year. Fin and AJ's max contracts for 5 more years eliminated.

Also, Finley doesn't have a lot of value folks. With his contract and age, he would be the most difficult Mav to move. If the Mavs braintrust thinks he is in decline they know they would have to package him with someone else. Not a knock on Fin, but it is the truth.

Anyway this trade is only a rumor, but it's fun to speculate! I personally think the Mavs should be calling the Jazz to inquire about Ostertag's availibility. In 25 minutes a game, he sure could add some beef in the middle.

LRB
11-09-2003, 02:19 PM
Is it worth making the deal?...alot of issues to discuss both pro and con

Murphy, I definitely agree with you on this one.

EricaLubarsky
11-09-2003, 02:25 PM
Anyway this trade is only a rumor, but it's fun to speculate! I personally think the Mavs should be calling the Jazz to inquire about Ostertag's availibility. In 25 minutes a game, he sure could add some beef in the middle.

good thing no one covers their walls with posters anymore. Between Bradley and Ostertag we would be on nearly 75% of all dunk posters worldwide.

echo
11-09-2003, 02:55 PM
No posters here! But Ostertag is, well beefy, and does clog up the lane, play defense, board and block shots. If I recall correctly, he isn't intimidated by Shaq. Anyway it's just fun speculation. I think the Mavs will eventually gel, but I don't like our odds of beating the Lakers or Spurs (with Duncan) this year.

Jamisonite
11-09-2003, 04:04 PM
I dont think we need to trade for Tag and if we do we shouldnt give up very much cause all indications have him coming to dallas next year and not for big money either

aexchange
11-09-2003, 04:12 PM
i would much rather do a walker/finley trade for derek anderson/wallace, then to swap to great character guys for the abyss that is wells and wallace.

Mavs Rule
11-09-2003, 04:49 PM
and as far as this trade is concerned, would PORT do the deal if the Mavs offered Walker instead of Jamsion? I see Walker as taking too many shots from Dirk....and Jamison i see as needing more touches......both could be accomplished with the removal of Walker!

it all may be dead point now, but it seems like trades like this that are romored now may have new life when teams are desperately looking for that extra piece at the deadline....so wait and see...the Mavs have pieces to trade..and those pieces will be of maximum value as teams try to make playoff pushes....

I agree with this totally. Jamison has some great qualities that this team needs badly.

1. Jamison has incredible character and a team instinct that fits in nicely with Dirk and Steve.
2. Jamison's shooting percentage is much higher than Walker's.
3. Jamison's has better hands receiving bullet passes when he is in the paint.
4. Jamison gets his shot off much quicker than Walker's and won't be blocked nearly as often.
5. Jamison finishes better than almost everyone on this team around the basket, he uses the board extremely well.
6. The Mavs need someone who can clean up after missed shots and put them back as easily as Jamison.

This is a major ROLE that the Mavs need badly. And Jamison is willing to do this role.

As far as getting rid of Walker, the only thing we will really miss is his passing. But, I think Nellie is overrating the point forward idea. It would be nice to have a player like this, but I believe Walker is not that man. These are some of the things we get rid of by dealing Walker.

1. Turnovers galore.
2. a 38% shooter.
3. a bad decision maker, especially with the game on the line.
4. Having to decide whether to extend his huge contract. I would rather worry about resigning Sheed.
5. a quasi-leader that no one really wants as a leader.

Fin is definately on the downside of his career, with shooting percentage hitting career lows last year, and looking to be even WORSE this year. He made some huge plays last night for us, but they are too few and far between for someone with his huge salary. I would miss Fin as a person that has a heart of gold. He was the backbone of this franchise for many years. But sooner or later we have to trade him within two years or we will be stuck with a huge contract for a bench player. The sooner we trade him, the more value we will get in return.

The only drawback of the Fin/Walker trade for Wells/Wallace would be the possibility of a complete rebelling of Wells/Wallace from the rest of the team. Can they relate to a bunch of good guys and become working members of a team that they used to call "soft", or will they segregate themselves from the others and look for escapism through the smoke. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Remember how the Walker deal came on the very day that the Warrior's players were eligible to be traded again. It could be the same thing all over again with this trade. In other words, the deal won't be consumated until Dec. 21st when Walker is eligible to be traded. Let the waiting begin.

Chicago JK
11-09-2003, 04:50 PM
Wallace is a talent no doubt, but I want nothing to do with the talented Bozo Wells. Phil Simms said something today about Bill Parcells when he got the Cowboys job. One of his first things to do as the Cowboy coach was to get rid of the rats. Rats kill the interior of a team. Bozo Wells is a rat!

I also really like Jamison. I hope he is a Mav for a long time. There could be a future trade for the Mavs, but now is not the time. I would much rather have Jamison long term than Walker, eventhough he has been fine here. Although I think Jamison has more trade value than Walker.

Chicago JK
11-09-2003, 04:52 PM
Anyway this trade is only a rumor, but it's fun to speculate! I personally think the Mavs should be calling the Jazz to inquire about Ostertag's availibility. In 25 minutes a game, he sure could add some beef in the middle.[/quote]

Aren't the Jazz in first place in the Midwest right now? That won't last, but maybe the Jazz can make a run at the number 8 playoff spot. Doubtful, but could be something to go for. We have nothing that would interest them for Ostertag. Maybe Howard but the Mavs don't want to trade Howard. Ostertag is a free agent next year, so they could either get something more from him or get his cap space next year.

I keep on repeating the Ostertag and Dale Davis are very real candidates next year for the Mavs. A good chance both will hit free agency next year. Davis will almost positively hit fa, Ostertag has a good chance.

Jamisonite
11-09-2003, 05:48 PM
I disagree. I think more teams would take walker. He is a little more versatile and his contract is shorter. ALthough id rather have Jamison on our team cuz he fits us better

Dirkenstien
11-09-2003, 06:33 PM
I think it just depends on what the individual team wants, or need for that matter. I like keeping jamison here..he's a great player that has good work ethic. I like Walker for now

Im sure we'll get some type of propositional trades from other teams involving both walker and jamison, but we need jamison much more so than Walker. Jamison is a true s/f that prefers to play closer to the basket and can do the little things that put a team ove the top while also providing the potential to come through majorly in the clutch if needed. Walker is older and more experienced..but we already have a great p/f in dirk ...lets see how things work out, and if they dont, then see what we can get for walker.

Cuban should definitely not trade any of the big three ..it'll mess with the team more than most people suspect ...Dirk, nash, and fin have a special bond that should not be broken up.

sike
11-09-2003, 08:38 PM
give me AJ for sure!

mavsfan4life
11-09-2003, 09:51 PM
i heard about this in the papers. i dont think they will do this though

Mavs Rule
11-10-2003, 12:02 AM
Duplicate post. i/expressions/sun.gif

Speedy
07-15-2005, 11:02 PM
Reading about the mav's interest in Bonzi made me think about this old thread. Looking back, would you do this trade? Does this trade change Cuban's decision on Nash, as well as Nelly's decision on coaching?

Hypothetical roster, assuming Nash was signed and the same trades were made:

Wallace/Bradley/DJ/Pavel
Dirk/KVB/Hendu
Josh/Najera/TAW
Bonzi/Daniels
Nash/JET

(Nash, master of the run-n-gun) + (Bonzi/Daniels, post-up guards) + (Dirk/Rasheed/KVB, three 6'10"- 7' who can shoot the three) + (JET, deadly 3 point shooting 6th man) = Nelly's dream team?

Would have been fun to watch.

Lebanese_Fan
07-16-2005, 02:19 AM
That would have been amazing. Cuban should have made that trade.

Murphy3
07-21-2005, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by: Speedy
Reading about the mav's interest in Bonzi made me think about this old thread. Looking back, would you do this trade? Does this trade change Cuban's decision on Nash, as well as Nelly's decision on coaching?

Hypothetical roster, assuming Nash was signed and the same trades were made:

Wallace/Bradley/DJ/Pavel
Dirk/KVB/Hendu
Josh/Najera/TAW
Bonzi/Daniels
Nash/JET

(Nash, master of the run-n-gun) + (Bonzi/Daniels, post-up guards) + (Dirk/Rasheed/KVB, three 6'10"- 7' who can shoot the three) + (JET, deadly 3 point shooting 6th man) = Nelly's dream team?

Would have been fun to watch.

You're dead on with that one.....

cripple balls
07-22-2005, 08:59 AM
This would have been the greatest trade in Mavs history.

Murphy3
07-22-2005, 10:10 AM
Did you forget about the Big German?

PepperTheMavsFan41
07-22-2005, 06:34 PM
Wallace/Bradley/DJ/Pavel
Dirk/KVB/Hendu
Josh/Najera/TAW
Bonzi/Daniels
Nash/JET


If Bonzi & Sheeds head are right with ball this roster wins 63 games a year and is punking the entire league.

echo
07-22-2005, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by: echo
I know this trade is probably only rumour, but I have no doubt the Mavs are interested in Sheed. I'm interested in Sheed! Yes he has baggage and yes he has an attitude, but there isn't another big man available who could make the impact Sheed could. Sorry folks Jermaine O'Neal and Ben Wallace are not available this year!

This rumoured deal also makes a lot of sense salary cap wise. Sheed would get one year to prove his worth, and if chemistry issues existed he would be sign-and-trade material next year. Fin and AJ's max contracts for 5 more years eliminated.

Also, Finley doesn't have a lot of value folks. With his contract and age, he would be the most difficult Mav to move. If the Mavs braintrust thinks he is in decline they know they would have to package him with someone else. Not a knock on Fin, but it is the truth.

Anyway this trade is only a rumor, but it's fun to speculate! I personally think the Mavs should be calling the Jazz to inquire about Ostertag's availibility. In 25 minutes a game, he sure could add some beef in the middle.

Wow I just realized this was one of my first posts here. Notice how right I was about Finley's value? No wonder those peeps at db.com ran me off their board!!!

Anyway Sheed has a championship ring now.

And I was wrong about Ostertag i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif

cripple balls
07-25-2005, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Did you forget about the Big German?

oh yeah. f-me

cripple balls
07-25-2005, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by: PepperTheMavsFan41
Wallace/Bradley/DJ/Pavel
Dirk/KVB/Hendu
Josh/Najera/TAW
Bonzi/Daniels
Nash/JET


If Bonzi & Sheeds head are right with ball this roster wins 63 games a year and is punking the entire league.

It definitley would be badass. Wallace isnt a center though. I would prefer Dampier, Dirk, Wallace, Bonzi & Nash and bringing in Josh as your six man.