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View Full Version : The Accidental Champs lose another one...


Evilmav2
11-14-2003, 10:55 PM
The injury depleted Philadelphia 76ers just joined likes of Denver and Memphis in a choice elite of NBA franchises that have stomped on last year's accidental championship San Antonio Spurs, by humiliatingly overcoming them on national television, posting a final score of 100-96. The vaunted defense of the Spurs had trouble slowing down such high-octane offensive weapons as Sam Dalembert and Eric Snow, and thus SA dropped to a record of 5-5.

And things just aren't going to get any better for the woebegotten Spurs, who can now look forward to the pleasures of travelling to Dallas to play the Showtime Mavericks on national Television this upcoming Thursday...

Simon2
11-14-2003, 11:12 PM
Seems like they are missing the outside shooting of Stephen Jackson.

Dirk Nowitzki
11-14-2003, 11:16 PM
I am not gonna say that any team with duncan wont contend, but they lost a lot of defense with Robinson, Horry & Stephen Jackson,They lost an energy guy in Claxton & they lost thier specialists in Ferry & Kerr. They replaced thim with a soft center in Rasho, a guy who has yet to prove anything in the NBA in Hedo, a streaky player in Mercer & an often injured aging back up point guard in Johnson. All in all I think they regressed this off season. By the way, did any one see Tony Parker basicly dribble the last nin seconds off of the clock down by 5 instead of taking an open three look that could have kept them in the game. "Elite" point guards are more aware & do not make bone headed moves like that.

Simon2
11-14-2003, 11:30 PM
Wolves lose to Jazz as well.

Shaq Attack2
11-15-2003, 05:27 AM
This really hurts for the Spurs. Granted, AI played out of his mind, as did several other Philly players. Still, their front court was completely diminished, and TD's ankle wasn't a factor in the game, as it's easy for big men to play on sore ankles. Parker was the only legit excuse for the Spurs to lose this game (he was playing on a bad ankle, which is much harder for a guard to do), but they shouldn't need Parker to beat a fully healthy 76er's team, let alone a 76er's team with 3 of their primary big men missing.

One note: TD is going to get his 3rd MVP, without a doubt in my mind, if he plays like this all year. He probably won't, so he may not get the MVP, but if he does he’ll be the most unanimous MVP since Shaq in 2000.

Murphy3
11-15-2003, 12:43 PM
ShaqAttack..you might be right about TD winning a MVP. He's not hurt like the Lakers, Kings, or even the Mavs. His team isn't completely loaded with scorers that'll take away his points. KGarnett will probably make a serious run as well. He's never been a big time scorer to begin with. Plus, the players they've added shouldn't take away from his attempts. There will still be plenty of attempts to go around

arsenalth9
11-15-2003, 01:14 PM
I think its safe to say there is no dominate team in the NBA right now. anyone can upset anyone on any given night.

WayOutWest
11-15-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by: arsenalth9
I think its safe to say there is no dominate team in the NBA right now. anyone can upset anyone on any given night.

That's what I found so great about the offseason moves this year. No one team out-classed any other as far as the big 5 are concerned. Reminds me of the 80's.

superheadcat
11-15-2003, 04:45 PM
while i can understand the sentiment, i don't think spur is an "accidental champ", and mavs is of "showtime" calibre yet.

mavsfanforever
11-15-2003, 07:14 PM
I am not sure what to make out of this loss but will say that Spurs did lose to Memphis and Denver last season during the first 25 games of the season. They are going thru a similar transition as mavs regards to changes made in the team look. However, I do not mind someone shooting 46%+ on the floor to take majority of the shots.

sike
11-17-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
I am not sure what to make out of this loss but will say that Spurs did lose to Memphis and Denver last season during the first 25 games of the season. They are going thru a similar transition as mavs regards to changes made in the team look. However, I do not mind someone shooting 46%+ on the floor to take majority of the shots.

sure, throughout a 82 game season you let a few slip away....but it still seems odd for teams like dallas and SA to be losing to the dregs of the NBA....maybe the super teams are not going to be as super as in years past...
I hope something changes, I can't stand losing to the likes of Memphis and Washington!i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

kingrex
11-17-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by: superheadcat
while i can understand the sentiment, i don't think spur is an "accidental champ", and mavs is of "showtime" calibre yet.

Super stole most of my thunder for this thread, except for one.

If the Spurs, Mavs, Wolves & even Lakers made no off-season additions and basically kept the same team from last year, then I would be surprised that they're losing against these "dreg" teams (sixers, grizz, etc). But since we're not even a month into the season, and having a practically new roster (all together now) give them more time. That is all.

razap
11-17-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2
The injury depleted Philadelphia 76ers just joined likes of Denver and Memphis in a choice elite of NBA franchises that have stomped on last year's accidental championship San Antonio Spurs, by humiliatingly overcoming them on national television, posting a final score of 100-96. The vaunted defense of the Spurs had trouble slowing down such high-octane offensive weapons as Sam Dalembert and Eric Snow, and thus SA dropped to a record of 5-5.

And things just aren't going to get any better for the woebegotten Spurs, who can now look forward to the pleasures of travelling to Dallas to play the Showtime Mavericks on national Television this upcoming Thursday...

still bitter huh? if you let it go peace will come to you. the accidental champs finished on a 41-9 run to end the season. i figured i would pass that long. oh least i forget some other team won 14 staright to start the season last year and did not even win their division. is there a little evilman2 running around?

Max Power
11-17-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by: razap
still bitter huh? if you let it go peace will come to you. the accidental champs finished on a 41-9 run to end the season. i figured i would pass that long. oh least i forget some other team won 14 staright to start the season last year and did not even win their division. is there a little evilman2 running around?

San Antonio wouldn't have won the division if Finley hadn't been hurt and they wouldn't have won the WCF if Dirk hadn't been hurt. They deserve another asterick.

kingrex
11-17-2003, 04:27 PM
Just like CWebb should not be used as an excuse by Sac fans, Finley & Dirk shouldn't be used as an excuse by Mavs fans. The team that wins an NBA championship wins it with their entire team from the starters to the bench players that need to step up when the starters are injured or play badly.

San Antonio won the NBA championship last year end of discussion and no asterisk necessary. The Mavs will win a championship someday, and I hope that fans of other teams don't chaulk it up to a tricked up offense or some other weak excuse why their team lost.

FilthyFinMavs
11-17-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by: kingrex
Just like CWebb should not be used as an excuse by Sac fans, Finley & Dirk shouldn't be used as an excuse by Mavs fans. The team that wins an NBA championship wins it with their entire team from the starters to the bench players that need to step up when the starters are injured or play badly.

San Antonio won the NBA championship last year end of discussion and no asterisk necessary. The Mavs will win a championship someday, and I hope that fans of other teams don't chaulk it up to a tricked up offense or some other weak excuse why their team lost.


Where have you been at lol? Every critic and columnist in the U.S. says that the Mavs should've lost in the 2nd round. However, they fail to realize that the Mavs should be NBA champs or Western Conference champs. When your best player is out, an excuse should be accepted.

Evilmav2
11-17-2003, 05:08 PM
still bitter huh? if you let it go peace will come to you. the accidental champs finished on a 41-9 run to end the season. i figured i would pass that long. oh least i forget some other team won 14 staright to start the season last year and did not even win their division. is there a little evilman2 running around?

Hahaha... Bitter? No my friend, I am certainly not bitter toward y'alls Spurs. But on the other hand, I think that any fan who would argue that the injuries to Chris Webber or Dirk didn't greatly help Duncan and co. shamble toward their second asterisk is a fool.

The 02-03 championship* Spurs were able to suck it up and take advantage of the injury depleted rosters of their Western conference rivals, but this was partially facilitated by your roster being stocked with veterans with long histories of winning. The immeasurable defensive presence of the Admiral, the locker room leadership and deadly shooting of Smith and Kerr, and even the precociously talented impact of long-armed Stephen Jackson all helped the Spurs to play a disciplined offensive and defensive game that helped you squeek in front of the broken down Lakers and my Dirk-less Mavs in the playoffs. I imagine that your Spurs would quite probably have been able to do the same thing to a Webber-less Kings if they had advanced to the WCF's, but I also have a hard time imagining just what these teams would have done to the Spurs if they were at full strength.

The Spurs came within 5 quarters, a few Steve Kerr jumpshots, and lot of help from the refs in game 2, of executing the ultimate choke job against the playoff Mavs. Take away the game 2 ref hatchet job, and keep Dirk in the series, and I think you guys would have gone down in 4 or 5 games. I also think the Kings would have run, passed, and shot your Spurs to death if Webber hadn't gone down and if they had advanced in overcoming my Mavs in the semi's. That was last year, when your team could still count on the kind of veteran play and leadership that really counts in the playoffs; The kind of leadership that the Spurs do not possess anymore...

Considering the Pop's disastrous mismanagement of the Spurs salary cap room this Summer, your Spurs are going nowhere but swirling down to the bottom of the toilet. A Jason Kidd signing might have forestalled this dirty and watery end, but that didn't happen, and now you are left with the likes of Rasho and Hedo and Ron. In the past, the best of Spurs teams could count on veteran heroics of Shawn Elliotts and Mario Elies and Steve Kerrs, but those days are done. Maybe Horry can fill that role for you with the last dribles of gas in his tank, but somehow I just don't see that. And even if he could bring some veteran intangibles to your made-over roster, it won't matter come playoff time. Eventually talent is going to win out, and when you compare the firepower on the rosters of the Lakers, Mavs, and even Kings, these new Spurs look bereft...

Maybe you can count on the acclimation time of the Lakers and Mavs to slow down the horror of these staulking monster's continued development, and maybe you can find some hope in Chris Webber's continued injury problems (that's the kind of thing that payed off big time for the Spurs last Spring), but before this month is out your Spurs are going to look like garbage in comparison to the greater powers of the West, and come playoff time, I can't help but think that unless injuries help them, your underpowered Spurs are going to be ground into powder by the fury of a revengeful Lakers squad, or you will be showtimed to death by a developed and efficient Dallas Globetrotter offense.

Your team and mine are both trying to find themselves after turning over huge parts of their rosters, but the difference between our situations (and indeed between the Spurs and Lakers as well) is that my team is struggling to incorporate all-star caliber weapons who will help us remain a contender for years. Your team is struggling to incorporate a motley crew of scrubs, spares, never-have-beens, and never-will-be journeyman, whose principal concerns over the next few years will probably be in scrabbling to aquire minimum veterans contracts.

Y'all may still be the defending champions*, but to me your future is not looking so bright at the moment...

http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/min_wolves_tixsales_1_021015_grab.jpg
A Shallow Hope for the Future

kingrex
11-17-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: kingrex
Just like CWebb should not be used as an excuse by Sac fans, Finley & Dirk shouldn't be used as an excuse by Mavs fans. The team that wins an NBA championship wins it with their entire team from the starters to the bench players that need to step up when the starters are injured or play badly.

San Antonio won the NBA championship last year end of discussion and no asterisk necessary. The Mavs will win a championship someday, and I hope that fans of other teams don't chaulk it up to a tricked up offense or some other weak excuse why their team lost.


Where have you been at lol? Every critic and columnist in the U.S. says that the Mavs should've lost in the 2nd round. However, they fail to realize that the Mavs should be NBA champs or Western Conference champs. When your best player is out, an excuse should be accepted.

I'm not saying that it does'nt hamper a team. Obviously when you take away the best player it will make that team less effective. But my point is the NBA championship is a grueling marathon-type acheivement. The team that reaches the top of the mountain gets there through hard work and a little luck. If you can stay healthy than your odds of getting there are better. However, if one of your starters go down, then it is crucial to have the players on the bench who can step it up. Case in point, Nowitzki was injured last year, and Nick & Fin stepped up their game to compensate. We just lost to the better team (San Antonio).

Shaq Attack2
11-18-2003, 04:34 AM
Ruthless, well thought out post Evilmav2. You have mastered the art of pwning your opponents. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

bogey
11-18-2003, 09:16 AM
"*"

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

razap
11-18-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2

still bitter huh? if you let it go peace will come to you. the accidental champs finished on a 41-9 run to end the season. i figured i would pass that long. oh least i forget some other team won 14 staright to start the season last year and did not even win their division. is there a little evilman2 running around?

Hahaha... Bitter? No my friend, I am certainly not bitter toward y'alls Spurs. But on the other hand, I think that any fan who would argue that the injuries to Chris Webber or Dirk didn't greatly help Duncan and co. shamble toward their second asterisk is a fool.

The 02-03 championship* Spurs were able to suck it up and take advantage of the injury depleted rosters of their Western conference rivals, but this was partially facilitated by your roster being stocked with veterans with long histories of winning. The immeasurable defensive presence of the Admiral, the locker room leadership and deadly shooting of Smith and Kerr, and even the precociously talented impact of long-armed Stephen Jackson all helped the Spurs to play a disciplined offensive and defensive game that helped you squeek in front of the broken down Lakers and my Dirk-less Mavs in the playoffs. I imagine that your Spurs would quite probably have been able to do the same thing to a Webber-less Kings if they had advanced to the WCF's, but I also have a hard time imagining just what these teams would have done to the Spurs if they were at full strength.

The Spurs came within 5 quarters, a few Steve Kerr jumpshots, and lot of help from the refs in game 2, of executing the ultimate choke job against the playoff Mavs. Take away the game 2 ref hatchet job, and keep Dirk in the series, and I think you guys would have gone down in 4 or 5 games. I also think the Kings would have run, passed, and shot your Spurs to death if Webber hadn't gone down and if they had advanced in overcoming my Mavs in the semi's. That was last year, when your team could still count on the kind of veteran play and leadership that really counts in the playoffs; The kind of leadership that the Spurs do not possess anymore...

Considering the Pop's disastrous mismanagement of the Spurs salary cap room this Summer, your Spurs are going nowhere but swirling down to the bottom of the toilet. A Jason Kidd signing might have forestalled this dirty and watery end, but that didn't happen, and now you are left with the likes of Rasho and Hedo and Ron. In the past, the best of Spurs teams could count on veteran heroics of Shawn Elliotts and Mario Elies and Steve Kerrs, but those days are done. Maybe Horry can fill that role for you with the last dribles of gas in his tank, but somehow I just don't see that. And even if he could bring some veteran intangibles to your made-over roster, it won't matter come playoff time. Eventually talent is going to win out, and when you compare the firepower on the rosters of the Lakers, Mavs, and even Kings, these new Spurs look bereft...

Maybe you can count on the acclimation time of the Lakers and Mavs to slow down the horror of these staulking monster's continued development, and maybe you can find some hope in Chris Webber's continued injury problems (that's the kind of thing that payed off big time for the Spurs last Spring), but before this month is out your Spurs are going to look like garbage in comparison to the greater powers of the West, and come playoff time, I can't help but think that unless injuries help them, your underpowered Spurs are going to be ground into powder by the fury of a revengeful Lakers squad, or you will be showtimed to death by a developed and efficient Dallas Globetrotter offense.

Your team and mine are both trying to find themselves after turning over huge parts of their rosters, but the difference between our situations (and indeed between the Spurs and Lakers as well) is that my team is struggling to incorporate all-star caliber weapons who will help us remain a contender for years. Your team is struggling to incorporate a motley crew of scrubs, spares, never-have-beens, and never-will-be journeyman, whose principal concerns over the next few years will probably be in scrabbling to aquire minimum veterans contracts.

Y'all may still be the defending champions*, but to me your future is not looking so bright at the moment...

http://www.nba.com/media/timberwolves/min_wolves_tixsales_1_021015_grab.jpg
A Shallow Hope for the Future


just for you i am going to save this. this reminds of last year's post consisting of the Mavs had passed the old spurs by at it must suck to be a spurs fan. i still chuckle. secondly we beat the 3 time champs something the mavs have had a hard time doing in the last 12 years. still blaming the referees? i don't have to comment on that. fuuny you mention the spurs demise when you cannot not find one person who agrees with your assesment. i know that you willscour the internet to find one sportswriter to back up your post. maybe you know something no one else does but that is why i am going to save this one and remind you all season long. do i have to bring up defense and the mavs? you mention globe trotter offense...do i need to say anything that you know what your trams short comings are? i realize that your hope is that the all-stars you have assembled become a team. well we all know portland ended up. cap space? being a mavs fan you want to talk about managing cap space? oh let me get this straight cuban loves to throw money down the drain with no results? the spurs will still have money next year to spend and get to keep manu.. remember him? and you comment on our past success with our depth. funny how many all-stars did the spurs have the years they won the title? what shoudl i expect from a fan who knows nothing about winning the whole thing so i will keep that in mind when i read your posts. you wanna play evilman we can and we will all seaosn long grabage? haha.... you still don't have an answer for tim duncan period. ever wonder why malik rose plays like an all-star against the soft mavs? it's a long season but of course you know that consodering you were celebrating your championship when the mavs started 14-0... last year. by the way we beat sact 3 out of 4 times last year and twice in arco with webber... beat the lakers 8 out of ten times.. what would you know about that?

bogey
11-18-2003, 12:14 PM
champs*

Big Boy Laroux
11-18-2003, 12:30 PM
ha ha. i love how one little character can draw the ire of every SA fan.

*

Evilmav2
11-18-2003, 12:38 PM
just for you i am going to save this. this reminds of last year's post consisting of the Mavs had passed the old spurs by at it must suck to be a spurs fan. i still chuckle. secondly we beat the 3 time champs something the mavs have had a hard time doing in the last 12 years. still blaming the referees? i don't have to comment on that. fuuny you mention the spurs demise when you cannot not find one person who agrees with your assesment. i know that you willscour the internet to find one sportswriter to back up your post. maybe you know something no one else does but that is why i am going to save this one and remind you all season long. do i have to bring up defense and the mavs? you mention globe trotter offense...do i need to say anything that you know what your trams short comings are? i realize that your hope is that the all-stars you have assembled become a team. well we all know portland ended up. cap space? being a mavs fan you want to talk about managing cap space? oh let me get this straight cuban loves to throw money down the drain with no results? the spurs will still have money next year to spend and get to keep manu.. remember him? and you comment on our past success with our depth. funny how many all-stars did the spurs have the years they won the title? what shoudl i expect from a fan who knows nothing about winning the whole thing so i will keep that in mind when i read your posts. you wanna play evilman we can and we will all seaosn long grabage? haha.... you still don't have an answer for tim duncan period. ever wonder why malik rose plays like an all-star against the soft mavs? it's a long season but of course you know that consodering you were celebrating your championship when the mavs started 14-0... last year. by the way we beat sact 3 out of 4 times last year and twice in arco with webber... beat the lakers 8 out of ten times.. what would you know about that?


Asterisk*, Asterisk*, Asterisk*, Asterisk*, Asterisk* . Your team is less than good, and will only get comparatively worse in the West as this long season grinds on...

Be happy with your accidental championship* Spurs fan; it was incredibly fortunate, and it is likely the last for San Antonio with this current group of players...

razap
11-18-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2

just for you i am going to save this. this reminds of last year's post consisting of the Mavs had passed the old spurs by at it must suck to be a spurs fan. i still chuckle. secondly we beat the 3 time champs something the mavs have had a hard time doing in the last 12 years. still blaming the referees? i don't have to comment on that. fuuny you mention the spurs demise when you cannot not find one person who agrees with your assesment. i know that you willscour the internet to find one sportswriter to back up your post. maybe you know something no one else does but that is why i am going to save this one and remind you all season long. do i have to bring up defense and the mavs? you mention globe trotter offense...do i need to say anything that you know what your trams short comings are? i realize that your hope is that the all-stars you have assembled become a team. well we all know portland ended up. cap space? being a mavs fan you want to talk about managing cap space? oh let me get this straight cuban loves to throw money down the drain with no results? the spurs will still have money next year to spend and get to keep manu.. remember him? and you comment on our past success with our depth. funny how many all-stars did the spurs have the years they won the title? what shoudl i expect from a fan who knows nothing about winning the whole thing so i will keep that in mind when i read your posts. you wanna play evilman we can and we will all seaosn long grabage? haha.... you still don't have an answer for tim duncan period. ever wonder why malik rose plays like an all-star against the soft mavs? it's a long season but of course you know that consodering you were celebrating your championship when the mavs started 14-0... last year. by the way we beat sact 3 out of 4 times last year and twice in arco with webber... beat the lakers 8 out of ten times.. what would you know about that?


Asterisk*, Asterisk*, Asterisk*, Asterisk*, Asterisk* . Your team is less than good, and will only get comparatively worse in the West as this long season grinds on...

Be happy with you accidental championship*; it was incredibly fortunate, and it is likely the last for San Antonio with this current group of players...


as my mom put it so eloquently: son, she said, you must consider the source before you respond. well i will consider the source and you really know nothing about basketball. SPURS 2 championships.. Mavs de nada, zero,.... before you make more comments that cannot be backed up please find me something about this asterik thing becuase the 2 World Champion banners don't have it. I'll wait to hear from you ..

have a great day. maybe you should call up espn because what you write so far different from what they write you may know something they don't. maybe we should all stop reading anything other than evilman posts because it is obviuos that various sports writers and GM's don't get it like evilman... since you are so sure what will happen to the league and the spurs fopr the rest of the year please provide me with the winning score of the cowboy game sunday.. i figure since you are so sure about the future a score would not kill you.

thebac
11-18-2003, 01:14 PM
I'm with SHC and kingrex on this one. They're last year's champ, end of story, I don't want to hear any sour grapes. When the Mavs win it all next year or the year after, I don't want other people to begrudge me that joy, either i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Having said that, what's with some of the Spurs fans here? They don't act like they understand that they're on a MAVS board.

Props to SA2, WOW, and 4CW, all of who bring perspective from an outsider (fan)'s perspective, but are respectful of the fact that they're posting on a Dallas Mavericks board. Spurs fans (at least the ones who posted here recently) bring up their Spurs in Mavs discussions and whine when some posters here take (admittedly often undeserved cheap)shots at the Spurs. If you can't defend your Spurs without attacking the Mavs, please, go back to your Spurs message boards.

(On an unrelated note, I don't think Mavs fans should be whining about the lack of respect from Kings fans on Kings boards, either.)

superheadcat
11-18-2003, 03:34 PM
i always thinks highly about spurs, but the way razap talks in this forum, i almost wants to put an asterisk on spur's champ also, lol.

kingrex
11-18-2003, 04:00 PM
I am confident these Mavs will overcome the Spurs. The Pistons had Boston. The Bulls had the Pistons. And we have the Spurs.

And oh yes, they will be had. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

razap
11-18-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by: superheadcat
i always thinks highly about spurs, but the way razap talks in this forum, i almost wants to put an asterisk on spur's champ also, lol.

i have never dogged the mavs with the exception of the last post. i always have been respectful of the mavs. please provide me with an example other than included in this post. i state fact i don't make stupid predictions about anyone. i state the obvious and no more.

bogey
11-18-2003, 06:17 PM
The Spurs* play hard.

Evilmav2
11-18-2003, 06:33 PM
as my mom put it so eloquently: son, she said, you must consider the source before you respond. well i will consider the source and you really know nothing about basketball. SPURS 2 championships.. Mavs de nada, zero,.... before you make more comments that cannot be backed up please find me something about this asterik thing becuase the 2 World Champion banners don't have it. I'll wait to hear from you ..

have a great day. maybe you should call up espn because what you write so far different from what they write you may know something they don't. maybe we should all stop reading anything other than evilman posts because it is obviuos that various sports writers and GM's don't get it like evilman... since you are so sure what will happen to the league and the spurs fopr the rest of the year please provide me with the winning score of the cowboy game sunday.. i figure since you are so sure about the future a score would not kill you.


Hey hoss, I know that the Cowboys are riding on a topsy-turvy Quincy Carter ride that see's our big play offense go through a boom and bust cycle every week. I generally haven't had a lot of confidence in our Cowboys winning any game in which our opponents manage to score 9 points, and thus thankfully I have been pleasantly surprised by the Boys quite often this season (not last Sunday night).

As far as my confidence in the Cowboy's success is concerned, it is not nearly so high as my confidence that the Spurs have taken a good step and a half backwards this year. Just watch, the Spurs will win 45-50 games, but they are going to be hopelessly outgunned in the playoffs. Last year the championship* Spurs benefitted from the devastating injuries which their top Western rivals suffered in the playoffs, but I think that sort of luck is too much for them to hope for this year. My Mavs can handily beat the Spurs. A healthy Sacramento team can beat the Spurs And God help SA if they run into the angry Lakers juggernaught in April or May; Those guys will have the will and the way to crush your team like they have never been crushed before...

sike
11-18-2003, 06:39 PM
poor spurs fans.....they can feel the luck of the * beginning to slip away.....i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Shaq Attack2
11-19-2003, 05:36 AM
Whether or not ESPN or the New York Times writes about the Spurs title run last season, there are some facts Spurs fans need to understand:

1) Stephon Marbury played with an injured shooting arm (a "sting" injury of some sort) for half of the 6 game series against the Spurs this past May.
2) Kobe Bryant played with an injured shooting shoulder and less than 100% healthy right knee for the entire 6 game series against the Spurs this past May. Rick Fox, the Lakers 3 spot player, missed the entire series, and Devean George, his immediate backup, missed one and a half games due to an ankle sprain, and played the last two games with that sprain.
3) Dirk Nowitzki played only half of the 6 game series against the Spurs this past May, having injured his knee half way through the series.

These are irrefutable facts.

Knowing this, anyone with any sense would conclude that the Spurs title last year was won with extreme fortune. Had none or even one or two of these injuries (any of them) never occurred, it's possible we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Had none of these injuries occurred, it's likely we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. I won't even mention the Chris Webber injury that ended the Kings playoff hopes in the second round of the second game of the Mavs-Kings series last May. Had that not happened, the Kings could very well have beaten the Mavs that series and would have been the favorites facing the Spurs in the WCF.

Now obviously, the likelihood that 4 of the top 10 players in the league (Marbury, Kobe, Dirk, and Webber) will be playing with significant injuries or not playing whatsoever in the 2004 playoffs is incredibly slim. The likelihood that Shaq will somehow be in terrible shape in the 2004 playoffs, like he was in the 2003 playoffs, is also slim, though possible if he suffers a mid-season injury and comes back to play another 40 lbs fatter this postseason.

Now what would all this mean without knowing what happened to the big West teams this past offseason and how they’re doing so far this early season?

Spurs:

The Spurs lost their 2nd best player and arguably its best defender, next to Duncan of course, to retirement this past offseason. He has been replaced with arguably the softest defensive center in the league next to Bradley (sorry Mavs fans i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif). His offensive prowess consists of a good mid range shot and a very basic jump hook. Overall, a noticeable downgrade from Drob. His stats this early season are an uninspiring 8 points, 8 boards and under 1 assist per game on 41% shooting from the floor. Though, he is blocking well at just under 2 bpg. Anyway, the Spurs also lost Steve Kerr, Stephen Jackson, and Speedy Claxton this offseason, all huge contributors to the Spurs playoff success last season, with Kerr and Jackson arguably hitting the biggest shots during the Spurs title run out of any other player on that team, including Duncan. Those players have been replaced with Horry, Hedo, and Hart/Carter. Hedo hasn't hit 1/10th of the big shots Jackson has, but he can dribble and drive, and has some potential. Still, Hedo is a downgrade until he proves otherwise, forget potential. I won’t mention his incredibly lackluster stats so far this season. Hart/Carter will be solid PG backups, but totally lack the spark (and definitely the speed) of Claxton (in case you're wondering, Claxton is so fast that he blew by and crossed over Allen Iverson on three consecutive plays last season, all for buckets). Horry is the Spurs biggest hope for clutch shooting, and they really couldn't have picked up a better person to replace Jackson/Kerr as clutch sharp shooters. But with a 2-38 FG performance during the 2003 playoffs with the Lakers, how much does Horry have left in the tank at age 33? Horry must shoot lights out in the clutch for the Spurs to dampen the pain of losing Jackson and Kerr. I'm afraid Carter/Hart will merely be good PG backups, but will always lack the spark Claxton gave the Spurs off the bench last season. Overall, can anyone really say the Spurs had a good offseason? Can anyone really say that it’s good to bet their championship hopes on 2nd and 3rd year players like Manu and Parker, especially knowing that Parker will face Gary Payton and Steve Nash and Manu will be facing Kobe Bryant and Michael Finley?

Lakers:

Added Gary Payton and Karl Malone, both players addressing the biggest weaknesses the Lakers have had the past 4 seasons; the 1 and the 4 spot. In 11 games so far in this very early season, Malone is averaging a double-double every night with 15 points, 10 rebounds, and 4 assists per game. Payton is averaging 15 points, 5 rebounds, and 7 assists per game on 48% shooting from the floor. Shaq came back this season in shape and well conditioned, so much so that he looks almost as quick as he did in 2000 when he was the unanimous MVP. The Lakers are 8-3 and are playing just horrid defense, partly as a result of new faces (lack of familiar backcourt communication) and Kobe's knee injury. As the season wanes on, the Lakers communication and defense will only get better (barring injuries). Once Slava and Fox come back from their injuries, expect the last weakness of the Lakers (bench production) to go up 10-12 points.

Mavs:

Added Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker to their roster, which already includes All Stars such as Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Micahel Finley. Both Jamison and Walker are young and have yet to reach their prime or are just about to (26/27 years old). Delk was part of the Boston-Mavs trade, and is an excellent shooter and backcourt defender to back up Nash. With rookie Josh Howard, ridiculously low in last year's draft, coming off the bench, the Mavs are probably the deepest team in the league next to the Kings and Lakers. To top it all of, the Mavs defense, widely regarded as their biggest weakness, has shown signs of improvement in this early season. Imagine where the Mavs can be defensively in May, not to mention how much they will have improved their run and gun offense by then.

Knowing all of this, exactly what do the Spurs hope will happen? It's clear there is no way the Spurs are in a better position right now, unless they bank on injuries in the postseason. I'm not even mentioning the threat the Kings impose, who have added an All Star center in Brad Miller, who still have Vlade Divac, and despite their loss of depth are still an excellent overall team who has contended very well the past two years.

Sorry, but I’m not positive on the Spurs. They played well last year and had lots of luck, and won a title. Good for them. This year? Not nearly the same situation.

Evilmav2
11-19-2003, 05:45 AM
Great post Shaq Attack. You are right on the money about everything, save for that Bradley crack...

Murphy3
11-19-2003, 09:04 AM
You probably should have mentioned Bradley missing PT during the Spurs series. Although he's in no way on the same level as a Dirk, his absence left the Mavs with virtually no one to guard either ducan or robinson.

bernardos70
11-19-2003, 09:38 AM
I didn't realize how lucky the Spurs got last year. Thanks for the overview, obese atta... err, I mean shaq attack 2 i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

razap
11-19-2003, 09:44 AM
yawn....


Well I bet the defending World Champions still have some life. 45-50 games evilman? Yet another post I must put away to show your low baketball IQ. Well you can refer to the chmaps anyway you want but in the end the title runs through San Antonio.... did mention how much i love the mavs?.. (this is just in case anyone gets the impression that I am disrespecting any mav fans)

razap
11-19-2003, 09:48 AM
i forgot to mention that maybe the mavs and lakers will get LUCKY this year and win a championship. can someone please state that the mavs have passed the spurs by and their 99 championship was the only one they would win and that the mavs will win mutliple championships because the spurs are old and have just a one man team. (i love the mavs.)

Shaq Attack2
11-19-2003, 10:16 AM
In case anyone's wondering, 90% of that ridiculously long post I had already written quite some time ago. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif