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Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 10:52 AM
MOURNINGS CAREER OVER

Alonzo Mourning will soon need a kidney transplant and will be forced to retire from the NBA, the Nets announced today. The seven-time All-Star center signed with New Jersey in July after missing the 2002-03 season with a kidney disease.

Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 10:54 AM
Man... What a suprise... I was one of the main Mourning fans, and one of the people upset when he didnt sign with us this offseason. What a shock... This is on the front page of ESPN, and is a big blow to NJ... I sure am glad he chose another team and didnt ruin the 03-04 year for us.

Too bad...

Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 10:58 AM
FULL STORY

Monday, November 24, 2003


SportsTicker
EAST RUTHERFORD, New Jersey -- Alonzo Mourning's NBA career is over.


The seven-time All-Star center will soon need a kidney transplant and will no longer be able to play professional basketball, New Jersey Nets president and general manager Rod Thorn announced on Monday morning.


"It is with great sadness that I make this announcement," Thorn said. "Alonzo is a true champion and a very courageous athlete who attempted to defy the odds with his comeback to the NBA. Unfortunately, his medical condition will not allow him to continue his basketball career. Our thoughts and prayers are with him as he continues his fight against this disease."


The 33-year-old Mourning left the Miami Heat and signed a four-year, $22 million contract with the Nets last July despite missing the entire 2002-03 season with a kidney disease.


In 2000, Mourning was diagnosed with focal segmental glomerulosclerosis, a disease that causes chronic kidney failure within a decade in more than half of the people diagnosed.

Maringa
11-24-2003, 10:59 AM
Too bad for Mourning. I was so excited about the prospect of finally having a significant big man on the Mav's roster. On that note, and also no disrespect for Mourning......THANK YOU!!!THANK YOU!!!THANK YOU!!! for not signing with the Mavs!!!!!!!

Cuban and Nellie are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief things didn't pan out with him. Their offerings to the NBA Gods must have worked!

MavKikiNYC
11-24-2003, 11:00 AM
Cuban: Better to be lucky than smart.

Murphy3
11-24-2003, 11:00 AM
Obviously, it's a good thing that the Mavs did not sign Mourning. However, that is secondary to the concerns for this man's health.

Maringa
11-24-2003, 11:01 AM
Question: Since the Nets waived the medical exam prior to the signing...does that mean they (or their insurance company) are liable for his salary? If so, you begin to wonder if Mourning made a decision based purely on financial reasons, since Dallas didn't offer the same medical exemptions....

Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 11:08 AM
Well sure Murph... No question about it... You have to feel for someone that likely has to receive another human's organ to survive... Not everyone has a giving brother with the same blood type to just offer a kidney, (Sean Elliot)...

grndmstr_c
11-24-2003, 11:08 AM
I've had a bit of a chip about Mourning since this offseason, but it's sad to see his career end this way and I hope he will be able to recover his health eventually.

Tarzan
11-24-2003, 11:11 AM
Cuban: Better to be lucky than smart. Luck is what happens when preparation and opportunity meet. Cuban has a long history of success that is not attributed to luck. Give credit where credit is due.

bogey
11-24-2003, 11:15 AM
For all of you who doubted me when I posted that this would happen this year.....I am sorry to say I was correct. I knew it would happen though.

Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 11:16 AM
Tarzan, is that comment suppose to assume that Cuban KNEW that Mourning would break down and CHOSE not to sign him? If so, you must be about as crazy as any person can be... I think it is common knowledge that we LOST the opportunity to sign Mourning when he decided to follow Kidd wherever he went. Cuban even made comments about us losing out in the race to sign him...

Hate to say it, but it was complete luck that he signed somewhere else rather than here, because if he would have signed here, the trades we made would not have been made and we would be last years team...

Tarzan
11-24-2003, 11:31 AM
I agree that in this instance it was lucky. Even though we still might have ended up with the Antwins since the MLE was not used to acquire them. My response was more to the people that always say Cuban's success is the result of luck rather than being a brilliant business man and NBA owner. If the comment was directed only to the Mourning situation, then I apologize for my response. Cuban's track record speaks for itself.

bogey
11-24-2003, 11:32 AM
I don't know why ANY team went after Mourning. It was so obvious that his kidney condition was deteriorating. Even a casual review of his public records were enough to show it. It was painfully obvious he would never see the end of this contract. I am surprised that he didn't make it further into the year, but I am not surprised at all (see my prediction in the mourning threads) that his kidney went belly-up this season.

Sad for him....but I am sooooooo glad he bolted to NJ. This was very clearly predicted.

Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 12:32 PM
Wow Bogey... It is so nice of you not to toot your own horn too loudly...

Very humble...

On to Tarzan... I think that you are EXACTLY right if your point was to say that Cuban was in general not lucky and a smart business man; however, that was not how I interpreted it. Thanks for the clarification...

Bogey, regarding your actual post, I dont think that it was a KNOWN that this would happen by any means. Many athletes from several different sports have come back from both injuries and ailments/conditions. He was just unlucky to have this condition keep popping up. For example, SOME people have cancer come and go, and others get it, get rid of it, and never see it again. I think that if he would have been one of the OTHER 50 percent who do not need a transplant that get his disease, he could have played just fine, and that was not a known coming into this season. So I think your comments about it being DEFINITE are just wrong.

I do think that the odds were against him though, and that it would have been an up hill climb, I just think that if he could have avoided the disease coming back into his system, and could have gotten in good shape, he would have again been a force until he decided to retire.

Nonetheless, I think that it is just a terrible situation for a human being to be in, and I wish him the best.

ReDIRKulous
11-24-2003, 12:47 PM
It is official... Kenyon Martin is the biggest scumbag on the planet. It is too bad public stonings aren't practiced anymore..

kg_veteran
11-24-2003, 01:25 PM
Best wishes to Mourning in his surgery and recovery.

As for the Mavericks and Cuban, it's better to be lucky than good.

bogey
11-24-2003, 01:27 PM
Hey Dan....if you were around then you would understand. Since you weren't....... buzz off.



If you want to argue with me on medical issues, pack a lunch because your last post was nothing short of revealing a lack of knowledge in this area.

kg_veteran
11-24-2003, 01:50 PM
The bickering is unnecessary.

For the record, though, I think bogey is right on this issue. Medically, Mourning's condition was more a question of "when," not "if". His career was on borrowed time; it was simply a question of how much time he could borrow.

bogey
11-24-2003, 02:03 PM
I guess this style of posting is better....



Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Wow Bogey... It is so nice of you not to toot your own horn too loudly...
If you were here back then you would understand. You were not, so you don't.


Very humble...
buzz off....in a respectful nice kind of way.


On to Tarzan... I think that you are EXACTLY right if your point was to say that Cuban was in general not lucky and a smart business man; however, that was not how I interpreted it. Thanks for the clarification...
no comment....


Bogey, regarding your actual post, I dont think that it was a KNOWN that this would happen by any means. Many athletes from several different sports have come back from both injuries and ailments/conditions. He was just unlucky to have this condition keep popping up. For example, SOME people have cancer come and go, and others get it, get rid of it, and never see it again. I think that if he would have been one of the OTHER 50 percent who do not need a transplant that get his disease, he could have played just fine, and that was not a known coming into this season. So I think your comments about it being DEFINITE are just wrong.

And you would be completely wrong in your assessment. If you would like to argue medical issues, pack a lunch. Your previous comment here indicates that you have no formal training in the field.


I do think that the odds were against him though, and that it would have been an up hill climb, I just think that if he could have avoided the disease coming back into his system, and could have gotten in good shape, he would have again been a force until he decided to retire.

Of course the odds are against him. He had a kidney that was guaranteed to fail. There was never any disease to avoid...it was resident in him the entire time. Getting into shape has absolutely squat to do with his kidney condition. The two are exclusive points. Being in shape is not intrinsically linked to the condition of his kindeys.


Nonetheless, I think that it is just a terrible situation for a human being to be in, and I wish him the best.
We can agree on that.

Mavs Rule
11-24-2003, 02:15 PM
I find the timing of this very interesting. It is a shame that this has happened, but this announcement follows the in-fighting that has taken place between Kenyon and Zo. Zo even said in one article I read something to the effect of: "I have too many years in this league to have to deal with razzing from teammates." I wonder if this played a part in the timing of the retirement? He could have possibly already known that he would have to retire at some point during the season, but did he pick now because of the altercation and the poor record? I am not accusing anyone of anything, just interesting to think about, any thoughts?

ames7
11-24-2003, 02:38 PM
That is a real shame. Good for him for giving it a last shot. And best wishes to his full recovery.

WayOutWest
11-24-2003, 02:41 PM
Fist off, good luck and best wishes to Zo. I've followed him since his HS days. When J.R. Reid made a big splahs as a freshman at NC he was interviewed by SI and he mentioned Zo in very "reverent tones". They coined the phrase of "Mourning Sickness" for the opponents of G-Town when it was learned he decided to join the Hoyas.

Stil....I have to wonder about this situation. He didn't want to sign with the Mavs because of the required physical exam and joined the Nets because they offered the same deal without the required physical exam. Did Zo know more than he let on? Could his health condition be that much of a drain on his financial situation that he needed to squeeze out another deal to get him through? I'm definately giving him the benefit of the doubt right now but I don't think I'll be surprised to learn otherwise.

Hope everything works out for Zo.

bogey
11-24-2003, 03:00 PM
Of course he knew. Hell, everyone knew. NJ made a calculated risk and it bit them in the derrier. They knew he would not finish that contract, but gambled that he might play 2-3 seasons. The took risk for reward and were rewarded with the risk. I'm just glad Cuban had the sense to demand the physical, otherwise that contract might be saddled here the next four years.

Fidel
11-24-2003, 03:10 PM
Did Zo know more than he let on?
Yes of course.

Could his health condition be that much of a drain on his financial situation that he needed to squeeze out another deal to get him through?
No, it was just him being greedy. He won´t have to pay much for his treatment, at least not nearly as much as he made in Miami allready. Plus he could still work as a TV analyst or in nearly every other job there is.


As for the kidney desease. You can have acute problems with your kidney because of poisening or something like that. That would require a couple of dialysis and you should be fine. With the kind of desease that Zo has there is no way of "fighting" it. Your kidneys will continue to deteriorate and when the activity falls under around 10% you either need a transplant or you need dialysis for the rest of your life. And surely Zo knew the capacity of his kidneys when he signed with NJ. If he really needs a transpant or dialysis now or in the near future he can´t have had more then 15% capacity at the time. The kidneys do not stop to work all of a sudden with deseases like this. It´s just a steady process of deteriorating.

madape
11-24-2003, 03:20 PM
Congradulations 'Zo. You were able to find not one, but two suckers to bid over your washed-up ass. You got the money you wanted. Thank God it wasn't from us. I guess it is proof that there really is a sucker born every minute.

Now get the hell out of here. I don't want to see your face anymore.

Dirkenstien
11-24-2003, 03:25 PM
Quite unfortunate for Mourning..his heart was in the game. I wish him and his family the best of health

MavKikiNYC
11-24-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by: Tarzan

Cuban: Better to be lucky than smart. Luck is what happens when preparation and opportunity meet. Cuban has a long history of success that is not attributed to luck. Give credit where credit is due.

Sorry, Socrates. Insofar as Cuban's pursuit of Mourning was concerned, I'll give Cuban credit for being lucky.

Dooby
11-24-2003, 04:27 PM
OK, wacky fun time. This is more up my alley. So Mourning gets paid , but his contract comes off the books after next year, I believe-i.e. Terrell Brandon. So who needs $5M in cap space after next year? That ought to give them something. Things are never as bad as they seem.

Simon2
11-24-2003, 05:37 PM
Too bad they let Mutumbo go. Is Collins their only center now? I guess Kmart was too much for him.

Simon2
11-24-2003, 07:01 PM
Would you think bad of Mourning if he didn't return any of that money? Should he return some of that money?

thewillis12
11-24-2003, 07:04 PM
given the way this disease ended mournings career.... what do you guys think of grant hill. he is surely on the decline and i think that he will retire before the next season starts. its a shame that such good people and players are forced to retire early due to disease and injury. you look at players who dont appreciate these things and they should be the ones retiring.
EX: portland jailblazers

ReDIRKulous
11-24-2003, 09:18 PM
I don't think Zo should give any money back. Screw it. Take the money and run. They are probably going to sell the Nets franchise anyway. Also, look how Miami dumped him when he got sick.

ReDIRKulous
11-24-2003, 09:18 PM
double post

superheadcat
11-24-2003, 09:22 PM
from marc stein's chat:

"Nets owe Zo the full 22 mil. If you remember, Zo demanded a fully guaranteed four years from the Nets and Dallas without submitting for a physical. You generally can't get insurance from the league on a pre-existing medical condition, so the only way the Nets could have insured themselves against another kidney failure is by paying for an expensive extra policy that probably wouldn't have been worth it. For example, one month's worth of insurance on Dirk Nowitzki's ankle the last couple summers cost more than 200 grand. How much would it cost the Nets to pay for extra insurance on a four-year deal to cover kidney failure? "

Male30Dan
11-24-2003, 11:03 PM
First of all, for all of the Admins that must read the rest of this post, know that I am only going to finish my thoughts because someone chose to call me out while my little light bulb was full of blue as opposed to yellow. As a result, I have to come to my favorite posting place to see some clown say things that just arent true...

So, you like to break comments down, lets start with your post...


I guess this style of posting is better....



Quote

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Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Wow Bogey... It is so nice of you not to toot your own horn too loudly...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sarcasm... Trust me, I can be much more brutal...


If you were here back then you would understand. You were not, so you don't.

If I were here back then??? Are you kidding me... Do you know when I started reading this board... Do you have any idea how long I have been around this board... Trust me, it was long before the thoughts of Mr. Mourning becoming a Maverick ever came about... Don't read too much into a SIGN-UP date, as it can just make you look foolish...


Quote

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Very humble...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


buzz off....in a respectful nice kind of way.

Again... Sarcasm... And again, it can be much more brutal...

Quote

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On to Tarzan... I think that you are EXACTLY right if your point was to say that Cuban was in general not lucky and a smart business man; however, that was not how I interpreted it. Thanks for the clarification...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


no comment....

Smart!

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bogey, regarding your actual post, I dont think that it was a KNOWN that this would happen by any means. Many athletes from several different sports have come back from both injuries and ailments/conditions. He was just unlucky to have this condition keep popping up. For example, SOME people have cancer come and go, and others get it, get rid of it, and never see it again. I think that if he would have been one of the OTHER 50 percent who do not need a transplant that get his disease, he could have played just fine, and that was not a known coming into this season. So I think your comments about it being DEFINITE are just wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you would be completely wrong in your assessment. If you would like to argue medical issues, pack a lunch. Your previous comment here indicates that you have no formal training in the field.

My only comment is: "In 2000, Mourning was diagnosed with focal segmental glomerulosclerosis, a disease that causes chronic kidney failure within a decade in more than HALF of the people diagnosed." My main point simply was that it was not definite... If that quote had said that this disease causes kidney failure in ALL of the people diagnosed, then I could assume your statement was accurate; however, it did not. I am not a doctor, and do not play one on TV. If you are, more power to you; however, I can only gather opinions from the facts I have presented to me.


Quote

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I do think that the odds were against him though, and that it would have been an up hill climb, I just think that if he could have avoided the disease coming back into his system, and could have gotten in good shape, he would have again been a force until he decided to retire.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course the odds are against him. He had a kidney that was guaranteed to fail. There was never any disease to avoid...it was resident in him the entire time. Getting into shape has absolutely squat to do with his kidney condition. The two are exclusive points. Being in shape is not intrinsically linked to the condition of his kindeys.

Again, I will step back here and say that I must be without all facts, as from the readings I have found regarding Mournings illness, there was no actual GUARANTEE to it failing. I had no facts given to me that it was in remission but would definitely SOON BE OUT OF remission. I also understand that getting into shape has nothing to do with his actual kidney condition; however, if my opinion based again on the readings I have come across were that it was not a definite that his kidney would fail, then you can see how me thinking getting into shape would drastically help his play. If not, let me break it down... ZO CAN NO RUN AND ZO HAS NO LUNGS... IF THESE ARE ZO ONLY PROBLEMS, ZO NEED TO GET INTO SHAPE AND HE THEN BE BETTER... Moving on...

Quote

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Nonetheless, I think that it is just a terrible situation for a human being to be in, and I wish him the best.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can agree on that.

I would hope so!



Regarding Superheadcat's post... Wow... That really is a large blow for the Nets... Especially with the organization up for sale...

LRB
11-25-2003, 12:12 AM
I wish Mourning the best personally, but boy am I glad he's not here. I just wish the Nellie and Cubes had focused their attention on Karl Malone and not been blinded the smoke that Mourning blew up their asses.

This is a terrible tragedy, but it doesn't OK playing people the way Mourning did. And he would have been better off not attempting a comeback and just taking care of his health. I don't know if it would have made a difference, but then again it might have. This is definitely a lose/lose situation. I just hope that Mourning is able to find a transplant and live a relatively heathy and long life with his family.

LRB
11-25-2003, 12:15 AM
And the Bickering is definitely unecessary.

Male30Dan
11-25-2003, 12:27 AM
Nice post LRB...

And your right about the bickering... I really never do TRY to start arguments; however, I feel that I must speak out sometimes. Some of those "sometimes" cause bickering back and forth, and that is definitely a detriment to the board... So to you Bogey, for the first post, I truly was playing and being sarcastic... I simply noticed the 4 or so times within this thread and the other started in the Mavs Board where you pointed out you were right, and I actually thought it was funny to the point that I wanted to point it out... Basically, you probably took that wrong, and then decided to call me out on other things... So I will chalk this up as a misunderstanding, and apologize...

Sorry again!

Back to the topic though... Is the majority feeling on the board really that Mourning knew he would not complete even the first season, and he just wanted another check... That is really a shame if it is the case... Eh well... I just hope that the guy is able to find a donor for his kidney so that he can just go on with life...

bogey
11-25-2003, 12:48 AM
We all wish him well in life.


But Dan...you should realize that when you make statements here you will held to the factual basis of those statements. The bottom line is....I am right and you stating that I was wrong is well....wrong. Yo uare flat out incorrect on your medical assessment. Trust me...I am very well versed in the medical field. Read your pm's....

dirno2000
11-25-2003, 08:16 AM
Another team was in the mix for Zo


Prior to the season, I mentioned to Jerry West how much I hated New Jersey's signing of Alonzo Mourning for $22 million guaranteed, no matter what, including disease, disability or death. Why would our noble Nets bestow a treasure chest of Benjamins and furnish so much protection to someone in such an unstable state, I grumped? Seems to me they were bidding against themselves. ...

"That's not factual," interjected the Grizzly president, correcting me in mid-sermon. "We offered 'Zo a similar deal. And, from what I understand, so did the Mavericks. Mark Cuban says he was first on 'Zo's doorstep the moment teams officially were permitted to talk to free agents, but if that's true, then he recruited him earlier than the league allows, 'cause we were all over him at 12:01 a.m."

In West's opinion, 'Zo was a bargain and just the proud gladiator the Grizzlies were looking for to even up the odds to some degree in the absurdly competitive Western Conference. How can a guy with an ominous kidney condition that forced him to miss all but 13 games in the 2000-'01 season and forbade him from working up a single serious sweat last season be considered a $22M bargain, I impertinently inquired.

"In my book, 'Zo's worth at least $10M per. So he's very underpaid at $5.5M," West figured. "If he only lasts two years it was a great deal."

What if 'Zo doesn't last one season, I wondered?



"Then it was a terrible deal!" West accentuated.

Male30Dan
11-25-2003, 10:21 AM
Interesting...

I was suprised that Zo could get little playing time in New Jersey with the LACK OF centers; however, I do not think he would have had much at all in Memphis with Wright and their other Bigs...

Regarding Bogey: I stand corrected!

bogey
11-25-2003, 11:03 AM
And I promise never to argue about networks, servers, etc with Dan. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Male30Dan
11-25-2003, 12:20 PM
Bogey, you are one wise heifer... Um, I mean Steer!!!

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Simon2
11-25-2003, 07:12 PM
All this talk about Mourning being a "Warrior" or "hero" is BS. The guy is receiving 20 mil for sitting on his butt! So he's fighting his kidney disorder and should be commended for that? Yeah. But taking 20 mil from the Nets without even completing 1/4 of the first of four seasons, that's robbery. Why wouldn't he grant teams a physical? He knew he wouldn't hold up. Why did he ask for a guaranteed contract? He knew he wouldn't hold up. I may not be with the popular vote but as long as Mourning is taking the full 20 mil. I think he's a greedy scumbag to me.

dirno2000
11-26-2003, 12:16 AM
On one hand I agree with you Simon. On the other hand, the Nets were dumb enough to sign him knowing the risk. Why should they be given a reprieve? They took a calculated risk. Sometimes when you do that you crap out. You can look at Zo as scumbag, or a savvy businessman. Maybe they’re one and the same.

rakesh.s
11-26-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Interesting...

I was suprised that Zo could get little playing time in New Jersey with the LACK OF centers; however, I do not think he would have had much at all in Memphis with Wright and their other Bigs...

Regarding Bogey: I stand corrected!

the main reason for his lack of playing time was the disease..i think they wanted to see how he would hold up in about 20 mins of playing time and then step it up over the course of the season

of course that's not going to happen..good luck to 'zo

Simon2
11-26-2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by: dirno2000
On one hand I agree with you Simon. On the other hand, the Nets were dumb enough to sign him knowing the risk. Why should they be given a reprieve? They took a calculated risk. Sometimes when you do that you crap out. You can look at Zo as scumbag, or a savvy businessman. Maybe they’re one and the same.

Scumbag <> savvy businessman.

Look at Cuban.

kingrex
11-26-2003, 09:20 AM
It's true that NBA players are getting paid a lot of money, and that anything bad that may happen to them seems to us as being just a balance to their "fortunate" lives.

However, anytime ones health is threatened, like Mourning's does, all one really wants is to be healthy again. I'm sure Mourning would trade his salary for a new kidney, and the chance to live a normal life even if he never plays basketball again.

As a player, the guy worked harder than anyone on the court and was a mode-NBA player (as far as I know). He was a "warrior" on the court and should be commended for that. We may not owe him any tears for his condition, but to diminish his courage in facing his health condition is showing a lack of understanding of what having a kidney ailment can do to someone.