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Charlie Brown
11-25-2003, 05:49 PM
New Jersey's in turmoil. New Jersey doesn't think they can sign Martin to long term deal after this season. They are second to last in scoring in the NBA this season. Perhaps, this is an intriguing possibility.


Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (10.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 23.0 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 27.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Kenyon Martin (18.4 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.0 minutes)
SG Kerry Kittles (12.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +7.2 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and +2.5 apg.

New Jersey trades: PF Kenyon Martin (18.4 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.0 minutes)
SG Kerry Kittles (12.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.0 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PG Tony Delk (10.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 8 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 13 games)
Change in team outlook: -7.2 ppg, -2.3 rpg, and -2.5 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


Dallas Starting Lineup

PG Steve Nash
SG Michael Finley
SF Antoine Walker
PF Dirk Nowitzki
C Kenyon Martin

New Jersey Starting Lineup

PG Jason Kidd
SG Tony Delk
SF Richard Jefferson
PF Antawn Jamison
C Jarron Collins

Charlie Brown
11-25-2003, 05:56 PM
trade clearly favors us, but remember, this is under the assumption that Martin doesn't want to sign a long-term contract with NJ. if so, do you think NJ could get something better than a Jamison in return?

i'm not so sure . . .

bogey
11-25-2003, 05:58 PM
He's a clown that Charlie Brown.....i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif


I doubt seriously that NJ would be interested in divesting themselves of KMart. I do like Kittles game. At least this wasn't some NVE for Finley out of the pooper trade idea. It would be a coup for the Mavs imho.

scorched03
11-25-2003, 05:58 PM
interesting trade.
i'm not sure NJ goes for it i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif although i wish they would.

would martin be a SF or PF in the west? he's kinda a tweener in the west?
but much props to his good defense.

kittles is great role player. i'd love to see him here. steals galore there

EricaLubarsky
11-25-2003, 06:04 PM
Just what Dallas needs-- another K-Mart...

and just what the Mavs need-- another 6'9" center

NJ would rather shop on the sign and trade when things are more certain than run a season without Kmart because they might lose him to freeagency.

I dont think we have to remind NJ that KMart was part of their Eastern Finals run last year.

grndmstr_c
11-25-2003, 06:05 PM
Advantage for us: Kenyon would upgrade our interior D, Kittles is great on the break.
Disadvantage for us: Kittles wouldn't be able to backup Nash, and we'd lose out on Delk's defense

Advantage for NJ: great defensive backcourt in Delk and Kidd, better halfcourt execution with AJ.
Disadvantage for NJ: lose Kenyon's interior D, might miss Kittles a bit on the break.

Two things standing in the way: AJ's contract (NJ trades K-Mart for contract reasons they won't want to take back a long max contract in exchange), and the attitude difference between the principles.

Charlie Brown
11-25-2003, 06:05 PM
or to try to make it more even . . .

Dallas trades: SF Josh Howard (4.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.8 apg in 10.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (10.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 23.0 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 27.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Lucious Harris (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 27.1 minutes)
PF Aaron Williams (5.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19.3 minutes)
SF Rodney Rogers (3.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 15.5 minutes)
PF Kenyon Martin (18.4 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.2 ppg, +2.6 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

New Jersey trades: SF Lucious Harris (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 27.1 minutes)
PF Aaron Williams (5.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19.3 minutes)
SF Rodney Rogers (3.5 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 15.5 minutes)
PF Kenyon Martin (18.4 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.0 minutes)
New Jersey receives: SF Josh Howard (4.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.8 apg in 9 games)
PG Tony Delk (10.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 8 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 13 games)
Change in team outlook: -0.2 ppg, -2.6 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

bogey
11-25-2003, 06:14 PM
No thank you.

sike
11-25-2003, 06:26 PM
"you're a block head Charlie Brown"....actually i'd do it if we could....still, I'd rather give up Walker.....oh well....

jimmychipwood
11-25-2003, 06:40 PM
Yeah, if you're Dallas, you'd have to do that trade. I don't think NJ would unless things just got terrible with Martin, but from Dallas' perspective, you'd have to do it.

Martin could be that missing piece type of player.

Dirkenstien
11-25-2003, 07:23 PM
No, I wouldnt do the trade. Howard is going to be a heck of a player and Jamison's game style compliments the mavericks very nicely. I dont like Dirk playing center and Martin lacks the size to bang around down low at the 5 with the big boys of the West. We need someone who will get Dirk back into the 4 while keeping a true small forward at the 3, making it more plausible to keep Jamison and perhaps trade Walker for a good defensive center. Although, im afraid this is easier said than done.

kg_veteran
11-25-2003, 08:15 PM
The first trade, I'd do, and quickly. The second trade, I'd pass on.

jimmychipwood
11-25-2003, 09:35 PM
I agree that I would rather put Walker in the trade than Jamison, so Jamison could move to the 3, Dirk 4, and Martin 5. I think Martin could handle the 5 okay.

IMHO, he would help our team more than almost any player we could somewhat realistically get.

So, you'd have to do either of those trades. In the first trade, we're talking about 2 bench players for a starting an aggressive starting big man.

In the second trade, we're trading surplus guards and small forwards for big men and small forwards. I don't see NJ doing it unless they feel they can't keep Martin, and even then, they would probably be able to get a better deal than a maxed out bench player and a promising late first-rounder.

I have been one to push for Jamison to start, but maybe what the Mavs are doing is "showcasing" Walker, because they know he will have the most trade value, because of his shorter contract. Make him a starter, keep his scoring averages up, keep your ideal 3 waiting in the wings on the bench...

Just thoughts.

jmiles65
11-25-2003, 11:02 PM
First Trade.

I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Mavs Rule
11-26-2003, 01:47 AM
I have been one to push for Jamison to start, but maybe what the Mavs are doing is "showcasing" Walker, because they know he will have the most trade value, because of his shorter contract. Make him a starter, keep his scoring averages up, keep your ideal 3 waiting in the wings on the bench...

Just thoughts.

Nice idea. I have been pushing for Jamison to start too, and this makes some sense. Will we deal him at the first possible moment, Dec. 22nd? Mavs are always about making a player look good in order to get max value. And then they usually trade out at the top, just like they did with NVE.

While showcasing Walker does make sense, it would give away our only playmaker (good passer) other than Nash. Could we survive that? Early in the season I believed Walker would walk (in trade), but now that Best is not the playmaker that we thought, we need another passer in return in the trade along with the big man we all want at center. So does Delk go in the trade too, since we can't dump Best?

Edit: Oh by the way, I say no to the two trades listed above. We need a center not another PF.

grndmstr_c
11-26-2003, 02:04 AM
I don't buy the showcasing Walker thing. Nellie's too into the point forward thing. Even if that was going on the chances of us getting a good offer this year are very small, IMO.

Fah Q
11-26-2003, 03:06 AM
I really don't see how Kmart would help us anymore than Jamison or Walker. He's not bigger than either of the two and he sure as hell couldn't play center in the west.

Simon2
11-26-2003, 09:10 AM
No way to the deal. The Mavs are clearly getting the short end of the stick there. Jamison > Kmart and Delk > Kittles. Not to mention that Martin is a headcase. Besides, the Mavs already have enough PFs.

kingrex
11-26-2003, 05:55 PM
Jamison can hit the 3 and post up and is a model citizen. Martin can barely hit an 18 footer, posts up nicely, but is a thug.

Fuggedaboutit. No deal.

Walkerforthree
11-26-2003, 06:29 PM
You are underselling Martin as a offensive player, he avg. 18 ppg on good shooting and is a great defender.

Walkerforthree
11-26-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by: Simon2
No way to the deal. The Mavs are clearly getting the short end of the stick there. Jamison > Kmart and Delk > Kittles. Not to mention that Martin is a headcase. Besides, the Mavs already have enough PFs.


You can't seriously believe Delk is better then Kittles, can you?

sike
11-26-2003, 07:28 PM
in your mind what sets kittles ahead?