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LRB
11-30-2003, 06:38 PM
I know that Erica is real high on getting Chris Mihm. Personally I don't see a senario that I'd agree to as Dallas and that Cleveland would do. Sure if they wanted to give us Mihm and any combination of players for TAW I'd do it in a heart beat.

Now I'm far from the most knowledgeable on this board about the intricacies of the NBA's trade rules, but here's the best that I could come up with that I'd do as a Mavs GM.

Trade 1[\b]

Dallas trades: PF Danny Fortson (2.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.8 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (9.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.0 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.9 apg in 37.1 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Kevin Ollie (4.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.1 apg in 17.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +15.1 ppg, +1.3 rpg, and +9.6 apg.

Cleveland trades: SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.9 apg in 37.1 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Kevin Ollie (4.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.1 apg in 17.5 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PF Danny Fortson (2.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.0 apg in 12 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17 games)
PG Tony Delk (9.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: -15.1 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and -9.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

[b]Trade 2

Dallas trades: PF Danny Fortson (2.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.8 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (9.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.0 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PF Chris Mihm (8.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 18.4 minutes)
C Bruno Sundov (2.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +8.3 ppg, +5.9 rpg, and +2.7 apg.

Cleveland trades: SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PF Chris Mihm (8.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 18.4 minutes)
C Bruno Sundov (2.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.0 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PF Danny Fortson (2.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.0 apg in 12 games)
PG Tony Delk (9.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: -8.3 ppg, -5.9 rpg, and -2.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
_______________

The key to both trades is that they have to wait until December 21st because of restrictions on Delk because of when we acquired him.

Both trades also depend on placing Fortson in the Leastern conference where his lack of height won't be as much a factor as it is here. Fort could definitely help the Cavs more than the Mavs. Also with the Cavs Fort gets to play PF more, which is his natural position. But does this justify the Cavs taking on the Potato's huge salary? I certainly wouldn't think so.

To help sweeten the deal in both we add Delk. This would allow Cleveland to play Lebron at the 1 and have a very effectived 2 who is great at guarding 1's.

Trade one let's the Cavs get rid of Davis and Miles. Trade 2 they just get ride of Miles.


I do either of these trades as dallas to get Mihm and to possible take a chance Miles. If we get Davis in Trade 1, we shop him until the dead line to resign him and then if we can't make a deal, we let him go.

Cleveland I do eiter of these trades to get rid of baggage (Miles and Davis or Miles and Ollie). I take a chance on the potato able to become a physical and contributing force in the east and in getting a 2 that can allow LeBron to play the 1 without being hurt defensively or offensively by playing someone out of position at the 2. In Trade 1 I get a good roleplayer in Najera, but certainly no reason to do the trade.

Personally I'd veto this 10 times out of 10 as a Cleveland GM. As a Dallas GM, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Either one is a low risk high reward kind of deal.

Nash13
11-30-2003, 08:26 PM
I don't like the first one since we'd have no room for Darius Miles, Davis wouldn't fit b/c we still have Finley, and we'd keep depleting in the front court.

I'd like the second one more if Boozer was involved somehow. They don't need Fortson when they themselves have a 6'8 Power Forward.

LRB
11-30-2003, 08:48 PM
I don't like the first one since we'd have no room for Darius Miles, Davis wouldn't fit b/c we still have Finley, and we'd keep depleting in the front court.

Miles would take the minutes at the 3 and 4 freed up by Delk, Eddie, and the potato's departure and not claimed by Mihm.

As I said, we only take Davis to trade him. But even if we sit him all year on IR and lose him to FA for nada, it's still a good trade to get Mihm and Miles. Look at it as giving up Fortson and Najera to get Mihm. A good deal, since both play most minutes at center are are undersized for the position. Then we trade Delf for Miles. Delk is a luxary. I already think that he needs to step aside to make more room for Howard. Miles would be a project, but the price is very low and we can afford it and still get better at the same time.

We don't need Boozer. We have tons of PF as it is. We need a center sized body.

Nash13 either deal is a near armed robbery of Cleveland. Dallas makes off like a bandit. Cleveland is the only one getting the shaft. Which is why this almost certainly won't happen IMO. But you can never say never.

bogey
11-30-2003, 09:56 PM
Cleveland isn't going to trade Bozzer. They love that kid. And they should.

Jamisonite
11-30-2003, 10:17 PM
no way cleveland takes either of those deals

jayC
11-30-2003, 11:21 PM
I hate Rickys selfishness, he just doesn't fit the personality of the team. Ricky is a young man's Jerry Stackhouse.

These two trades seem like trades just to do a trade. I think we need role players like delk, najera and fortson. We have enough stars and egos on this team.

SeriousSummer
12-01-2003, 08:11 AM
I already suggested elsewhere:

Delk for Mihm works.

Delk gives Cleveland a two guard that can guard the point. Perfect to pair with LeBron.

LRB
12-01-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by: SeriousSummer
I already suggested elsewhere:

Delk for Mihm works.

Delk gives Cleveland a two guard that can guard the point. Perfect to pair with LeBron.

I actually used your idea to base my trade on. But the one flaw with doing a straight Delk for Mihm trade is that it goes against most every principle of trades in exchanging a small for a Big. There is a 10" height difference in Mihm's favor, Mihm has the youth advantage, and the better stats by far this year. Just think that there would need to be more to sweeten the deal. But then again I don't see any of my proposed trades working as well, so this one probably has just a good of shot if not better.

Blonde Bomber
12-01-2003, 10:23 AM
Walker + Jamison + Davis + Miles all at SF would be a nightmare to please all of them with minutes. I want NO part of Davis. Love his skill but he would pouting about playing time and not getting enough shots...would be a cancer.


Now if we could find a way to get Miles and Big Z.........


What about this bomb of a trade....

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.8 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 32.6 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.8 ppg, -1.9 rpg, and -0.4 apg.

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.8 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 32.6 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.3 apg in 17 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17 games)
Change in team outlook: -4.8 ppg, +1.9 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

LINEUP:

PG: Nash, Best, Daniels
SG: Finley, Howard, Delk
SF: Jamison, Miles
PF: Nowitzki, Fortson
C: Big Z, Big Shawn

How fun would it be to see the starters get subbed in the second quater and see the threesome of Howard, Daniels, and Miles come on the court...THAT would be fun to watch.

EricaLubarsky
12-01-2003, 11:07 AM
Im actually not that high on Mihm so everybody knows- I dont think he's an allstar who will single-handedly carry the team, but I like the kid. I also like him a heck of a lot more than I like big Z because getting big Z would require trading away a lot and Z doesnt give us much defense. Bringing Mihm back to Texas would be pretty cheap (Delk?) and he plays decent defense, he doesnt float away on defense and he won't shoot threes.

That said, I would only do the second of LRBs trades. IT sucks to give up Delk, but I had a feeling he would be a trade token when he came from Boston anyway. Fortson? If we didnt have Nowitzki, Jamison and Walker plugging up the Forward spots I would play him SF/PF but there is no room for him at Forward in Dallas and his days of Center are hopefully coming to an end.

LRB
12-01-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by: Blonde Bomber
Walker + Jamison + Davis + Miles all at SF would be a nightmare to please all of them with minutes. I want NO part of Davis. Love his skill but he would pouting about playing time and not getting enough shots...would be a cancer.


Now if we could find a way to get Miles and Big Z.........


What about this bomb of a trade....

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.8 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 32.6 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.8 ppg, -1.9 rpg, and -0.4 apg.

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (15.8 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 32.6 minutes)
SF Darius Miles (9.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 28.6 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.3 apg in 17 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17 games)
Change in team outlook: -4.8 ppg, +1.9 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

LINEUP:

PG: Nash, Best, Daniels
SG: Finley, Howard, Delk
SF: Jamison, Miles
PF: Nowitzki, Fortson
C: Big Z, Big Shawn

How fun would it be to see the starters get subbed in the second quater and see the threesome of Howard, Daniels, and Miles come on the court...THAT would be fun to watch.

So I trade an allstar Forward capable of playing either the SF or PF position, currently playing allstar level basketball and averaging a near double double and a career spare holding steady in his contributions with a super attitude

for

a broken down center that has yet to play anywhere close to a full season and who only has possibly a couple of years left before he's forced out of the league for health issues and a career spare on the way down with a bad attitude.

No, no way in hell I do this one if I'm Dallas.

SeriousSummer
12-01-2003, 12:28 PM
I don't think Mihm has that much value--basically he's Evan Eschmeyer with a Texas accent. In spite of this year's statistics, I think Delk is a far superior player, and he's not that old. So, I guess my issue would be whether Dallas really wanted to give up Delk for a stiff. I come down maybe, because I don't think we need Delk--our rookies look that good.

I assume Mihm is no better than third string center for Cleveland--behind Z and Diop, so I think they'd do the deal. I'd take Diop instead in a second. I think he has more upside, but I assume Cleveland would rather keep him. Diop's salary is a little lower than Mihm's salary, so the deal would require Cleveland to throw in some dreck to make it work, but I doubt it would be that complicated.

SeriousSummer
12-01-2003, 12:33 PM
Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (9.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 21.0 minutes)
Dallas receives: C DeSagana Diop (2.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.6 minutes)
PG J.R. Bremer (4.5 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.3 apg in 16.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -1.7 ppg, +2.8 rpg, and +1.2 apg.

Cleveland trades: C DeSagana Diop (2.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.6 minutes)
PG J.R. Bremer (4.5 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 1.3 apg in 16.6 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PG Tony Delk (9.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 12 games)
Change in team outlook: +1.7 ppg, -2.8 rpg, and -1.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

You can substitute Bruno Sundov (once a Mav always a Mav) if you like.

But, as I said, I think Cleveland would rather keep Diop and trade Mihm.

LRB
12-01-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by: SeriousSummer
I don't think Mihm has that much value--basically he's Evan Eschmeyer with a Texas accent. In spite of this year's statistics, I think Delk is a far superior player, and he's not that old. So, I guess my issue would be whether Dallas really wanted to give up Delk for a stiff. I come down maybe, because I don't think we need Delk--our rookies look that good.

I assume Mihm is no better than third string center for Cleveland--behind Z and Diop, so I think they'd do the deal. I'd take Diop instead in a second. I think he has more upside, but I assume Cleveland would rather keep him. Diop's salary is a little lower than Mihm's salary, so the deal would require Cleveland to throw in some dreck to make it work, but I doubt it would be that complicated.


Delk is extra, we don't need him. Howard is quite capable of replacing Delk and then some. So we give up something that we don't need. Mihm may not be as good as Delk, but he's 7'0". And he would feel a need that we are very short on. And Mihm is far superior to Evan Eshmeyer. I'm not saying that he's anywhere close to be a star, but Eshmeyer was a zero, nada, complete bag of nothing contributer in his time in Dallas. Fit only for the IR.


As for Diop vs Mihm. They're both playing about the same minutes, but Mihm is clear outperforming Diop. Still I'd trade Tony Delk for Diop in a heartbeat.

Basically I'd trade Delk for any center 6'11" or taller, 250 lbs or heavier, able to play 20 minutes a game and average at least 5 rebounds and 1 block shot during that time. Both Diop and Mihm meet those requirements.

Delk is gravy that we don't need. He may be nice to have, but we don't need him. It could even be argued that he's hurting us. With Delk Nellie is more likely to play small ball. Howard's development get's slowed. And Delk is past the zenith of his career. He may not be going downhill but he's sure not going uphill. Long and Short is that Tony Delk is expendable and is probably the most valuable trading commodity outside of the Big5 and Bradley.

Now we need another center. Not a undersized powerforward who trys to play center (Najera, Fortson) or a PF that is more of a SF than a center (Jamison and Walker) or a star PF who drops off in production and effectiveness greatly when he plays center (Dirk). That leaves us 1 center who isn't 100% healthy and hasn't been all year. We have 2 players over 6'9" and both have had injury problems this year.

So I'd trade Delk for a decent spare 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Of course that doesn't mean that other teams will be lining up to trade their 7'0" spares for Delk. Even spares at 7'0" are much harder to find than a suber sub 6'2" shooting guard.

kg_veteran
12-01-2003, 12:59 PM
Put me on the list of people who would trade Delk for Mihm.

I could really enjoy this:

Bradley 24 - Mihm 15 - Nowitzki 9
Nowitzki 29 - Jamison 19
Walker 34 - Jamison 8 - Howard 6
Finley 34 - Howard 14
Nash 32 - Best 16

Still have Daniels and Najera waiting in the wings if anyone gets hurt.

Dirkenstien
12-01-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Put me on the list of people who would trade Delk for Mihm.

I could really enjoy this:

Bradley 24 - Mihm 15 - Nowitzki 9
Nowitzki 29 - Jamison 19
Walker 34 - Jamison 8 - Howard 6
Finley 34 - Howard 14
Nash 32 - Best 16

Still have Daniels and Najera waiting in the wings if anyone gets hurt.

Mark me down as well. Delk, although a good player, provides opportunity for the dreaded small ball while also slowing the developing of our talented rookies at the same time. It is obvious we need another big body to put at center in order to keep Dirk out of the low post and on the perimeter; Delk for Mihm is considerably agreeable although its not certain whether or not Ceveland would agree to such terms without the Mavericks sweetening the deal possibly with throwing in one of our rookies.

Now the question shifts back to our side of the court with the task of coming to a conclusion to the proposition of whether or not you would be willing to throw in Howard or Daniels in order to complete this trade.

SeriousSummer
12-01-2003, 05:01 PM
Daniels yes. Howard a resounding no.

LRB
12-01-2003, 05:38 PM
Definitely not Howard and I'm unsure about Daniels, but can we even throw them in? Does anyone know exactly what the restrictions are?

Dirkenstien
12-01-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
Definitely not Howard and I'm unsure about Daniels, but can we even throw them in? Does anyone know exactly what the restrictions are?

Neither Howard or Daniels are eligible to be traded until December 15, however considering that this trade gravitates around Delk and because Delk is not eligible to be traded until the 20'th of December then clearly December 20th would be the first day this trade could happen. A combination of both Delk and Howard or Delk and Daniels for Mihm are within league regulations and satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Jamisonite
12-01-2003, 06:05 PM
Ok i want NO part of Darius Miles or Ricky Davis. We have had enough trouble getting walker and jamison happy add one more guy with an even bigger ego than both of them and we wont make the playoffs. The only players on clev i like (that we could actually get) are Ollie, Boozer, and Mihm. But they love boozer so i guess just Mihm and Ollie.... So maybe we package Delk, Najera, and someone else for Ollie and Mihm?

LRB
12-01-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien

Originally posted by: LRB
Definitely not Howard and I'm unsure about Daniels, but can we even throw them in? Does anyone know exactly what the restrictions are?

Neither Howard or Daniels are eligible to be traded until December 15, however considering that this trade gravitates around Delk and because Delk is not eligible to be traded until the 20'th of December then clearly December 20th would be the first day this trade could happen. A combination of both Delk and Howard or Delk and Daniels for Mihm are within league regulations and satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Thanks. But I really try to hang on to those two and Howard is a definite deal breaker. I prefer to take my chances with FA unless they want to throw in LeBron. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

FilthyFinMavs
12-01-2003, 06:54 PM
Only player at this point I want from the Cavs is Carlos Boozer.

FilthyFinMavs
12-01-2003, 06:56 PM
And remember, when trading for Davis you have to take 2 things into consideration. You have guys like Daniels and Howard you could be giving those minutes to. Also, all it takes is 1 player to ruin a teams chemistry. All it takes is one.

LRB
12-01-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Only player at this point I want from the Cavs is Carlos Boozer.


Boozer is the last thing the Mavs need. He plays the Mavs single strongest position, PF. We're already backlogged out the wazoo at that positon. He's too short to fulfill our needs at center. It just doesn't make sense to get him at this point.

As for Davis, I definitely don't trade for him. I would take him only if I thought that the talent exchange on the other players not including Davis was a good exchange and fulfilled my needs. Then Ricky gets shopped for a trade. His but stays on the bench expept for garbage time or better yet stays on the IR. If a trade or sign and trade can't be done, they Ricky walks without an offer. He's cancerous garbage and I don't want him, but I'll take him to make deal that stands alone without him talent wise for me.

FilthyFinMavs
12-01-2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Only player at this point I want from the Cavs is Carlos Boozer.


Boozer is the last thing the Mavs need. He plays the Mavs single strongest position, PF. We're already backlogged out the wazoo at that positon. He's too short to fulfill our needs at center. It just doesn't make sense to get him at this point.

As for Davis, I definitely don't trade for him. I would take him only if I thought that the talent exchange on the other players not including Davis was a good exchange and fulfilled my needs. Then Ricky gets shopped for a trade. His but stays on the bench expept for garbage time or better yet stays on the IR. If a trade or sign and trade can't be done, they Ricky walks without an offer. He's cancerous garbage and I don't want him, but I'll take him to make deal that stands alone without him talent wise for me.



I think you could work him in as a center with his size. He is around the 6'9 250 range. Your right though. We don't need any player who plays the 1-4 position. I think if you are wililng to play Najera or Fortson at center Boozer can definately play some.

grndmstr_c
12-01-2003, 09:00 PM
Yes, Boozer could probably do as well as our other PF's, but since it's a trade as opposed to a FA signing it wouldn't be worth it unless we got a real center.

Dirkenstien
12-02-2003, 12:19 AM
How about


Dallas trades: SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.2 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.9 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 6.2 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Chris Mihm (8.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 18.4 minutes)
C Bruno Sundov (2.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.1 ppg, +5.3 rpg, and -0.6 apg.

Cleveland trades: PF Chris Mihm (8.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 18.4 minutes)
C Bruno Sundov (2.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 7.0 minutes)
Cleveland receives: SF Eduardo Najera (3.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17 games)
SG Marquis Daniels (3.9 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 10 games)
Change in team outlook: -3.1 ppg, -5.3 rpg, and +0.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

This brings in some big bodies to us while shipping in a solid and strong 3 in Najera to the cavs providing them with room to ship away Miles and his ego. Also this gives them another talented backup in Daniels to Bron and Davis

Fah Q
12-02-2003, 01:41 AM
I don't like the thought of shipping Daniels or Howard out.

Howard is a good young player who has been showing his value on offense and defense.

Daniels is a cheap rookie who I think could actually be a star in this league if given the opportunity to flurish.

LRB
12-02-2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Only player at this point I want from the Cavs is Carlos Boozer.


Boozer is the last thing the Mavs need. He plays the Mavs single strongest position, PF. We're already backlogged out the wazoo at that positon. He's too short to fulfill our needs at center. It just doesn't make sense to get him at this point.

As for Davis, I definitely don't trade for him. I would take him only if I thought that the talent exchange on the other players not including Davis was a good exchange and fulfilled my needs. Then Ricky gets shopped for a trade. His but stays on the bench expept for garbage time or better yet stays on the IR. If a trade or sign and trade can't be done, they Ricky walks without an offer. He's cancerous garbage and I don't want him, but I'll take him to make deal that stands alone without him talent wise for me.



I think you could work him in as a center with his size. He is around the 6'9 250 range. Your right though. We don't need any player who plays the 1-4 position. I think if you are wililng to play Najera or Fortson at center Boozer can definately play some.

The problem is that Boozer can't be traded for either Najera or the Potato. He makes too little money. So there is not since comparing him to those two. Bottom line is that we don't need Boozer, so unless Cleveland is willing to throw him in on a trade giving us what we do need (Big Z, Mihm, Diop) then it makes absolutely no sense to get him.

We play Eddie and Fortson at the 5 because they're the best we have, not because they're great there. Just because we play a couple of players out of position because of necessity is not a reason to make a trade to player another player out of position. We're better off making no changes than getting Boozer. The cost of adjusting to someone who is going to be little better than what we is a good use of our time or resources. Plus it's bad business and bad morale to make a trade just to make a trade.

LRB
12-02-2003, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by: Fah Q
I don't like the thought of shipping Daniels or Howard out.

Howard is a good young player who has been showing his value on offense and defense.

Daniels is a cheap rookie who I think could actually be a star in this league if given the opportunity to flurish.

With Daniels I don't worry what happens to Nash in another 4 seasons or so. We have his replacement. So if we give him up, it better be for something darn good. And the same can be said doubly for Howard and Fin. These two are steals and I want I really high return to consider parting with them.

Tony tha Mavs fan
12-04-2003, 12:19 PM
Texas a logical destination for former Longhorn center

11:27 PM CST on Wednesday, December 3, 2003

A long, lost center from Texas is finally making some noise. Letís hope not everybody has forgotten about him.

Itís only taken 3 1/2 years, but Chris Mihm, the 7-footer from Austin and the University of Texas, has finally figured out how to prosper in the NBA.

Mihm struggled badly in his first three seasons with the Cleveland Cavaliers. But this season, heís averaging 8.3 points and 6.3 rebounds in only 18.4 minutes per game.

His rebounding average puts him in the top five in the NBA per 48 minutes (see chart).

The best news regarding Mihm is that he is a restricted free agent after this season. With LeBron James destined to be the life of Clevelandís party for years to come, it would be understandable if Mihm might want to stay with the Cavs and ride that wave as far as it goes.

But donít give up on the possibility of Mihm returning to Texas. The Mavericks would be foolish not to see what it would take to work out a sign-and-trade to acquire Mihm next summer. The price would be high. But not so high that it would send them running for cover.

And with Yao Ming and Tim Duncan set for the next decade or so with Houston and San Antonio, respectively, the Mavericks are going to need something resembling a legitimate center to compete.
BOARD MEN
NBAís best rebounders per 48 minutes
Rank Player, team Avg. rebounds per 48 minutes
1. Erick Dampier, Golden State 19.3
2. Marcus Camby, Denver 18.7
3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio 18.0
4. Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 17.3
5. Chris Mihm, Cleveland 16.5
6. Robert Traylor, New Orleans 15.8
7. Mehmet Okur, Detroit 15.7
8. Jeff Foster, Indiana 15.6
9. Dan Gadzuric, Milwaukee 15.5
10. Reggie Evans, Seattle 15.4
10. David West, New Orleans 15.4
Notes: Through Monday. The Mavericksí Danny Fortson is averaging 19.3 rebounds per 48 minutes but has not played enough games to qualify.

Dirkenstien
12-04-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
Texas a logical destination for former Longhorn center

11:27 PM CST on Wednesday, December 3, 2003

A long, lost center from Texas is finally making some noise. Letís hope not everybody has forgotten about him.

Itís only taken 3 1/2 years, but Chris Mihm, the 7-footer from Austin and the University of Texas, has finally figured out how to prosper in the NBA.

Mihm struggled badly in his first three seasons with the Cleveland Cavaliers. But this season, heís averaging 8.3 points and 6.3 rebounds in only 18.4 minutes per game.

His rebounding average puts him in the top five in the NBA per 48 minutes (see chart).

The best news regarding Mihm is that he is a restricted free agent after this season. With LeBron James destined to be the life of Clevelandís party for years to come, it would be understandable if Mihm might want to stay with the Cavs and ride that wave as far as it goes.

But donít give up on the possibility of Mihm returning to Texas. The Mavericks would be foolish not to see what it would take to work out a sign-and-trade to acquire Mihm next summer. The price would be high. But not so high that it would send them running for cover.

And with Yao Ming and Tim Duncan set for the next decade or so with Houston and San Antonio, respectively, the Mavericks are going to need something resembling a legitimate center to compete.
BOARD MEN
NBAís best rebounders per 48 minutes
Rank Player, team Avg. rebounds per 48 minutes
1. Erick Dampier, Golden State 19.3
2. Marcus Camby, Denver 18.7
3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio 18.0
4. Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 17.3
5. Chris Mihm, Cleveland 16.5
6. Robert Traylor, New Orleans 15.8
7. Mehmet Okur, Detroit 15.7
8. Jeff Foster, Indiana 15.6
9. Dan Gadzuric, Milwaukee 15.5
10. Reggie Evans, Seattle 15.4
10. David West, New Orleans 15.4
Notes: Through Monday. The Mavericksí Danny Fortson is averaging 19.3 rebounds per 48 minutes but has not played enough games to qualify.

Why wait till the summer? we need to trade for him now

dirkformvp
12-04-2003, 07:11 PM
i dont think we should trade so fast, we have to wait for the right time to do it. yes we need a big man but we need a big man that can help us on defense and offensive rebounding

Dirkenstien
12-04-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by: dirkformvp
i dont think we should trade so fast, we have to wait for the right time to do it. yes we need a big man but we need a big man that can help us on defense and offensive rebounding

and by making a trade such as Delk for Mihm we would infact acquire such attributes making it rediculous to wait on making a trade that will benefit your team almost instantly. The logic fails to emerge on your theory dirkformvp for the simple fact that if you can make a trade that will assist your team in making a run for a championship then you should accomplish such a task as immediately as the opportunity portrays itself

LRB
12-04-2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by: dirkformvp
i dont think we should trade so fast, we have to wait for the right time to do it. yes we need a big man but we need a big man that can help us on defense and offensive rebounding


1st of all we need a tall Big man to go with Shawn Bradley who can man the middle and has enough height and shot blocking ability to shut down the middle. One on one defense is nice, but we need help defense and zone defense. Doesn't have to be great, just adequate. We have one hell of a talented team other than the 5 spot. If we can just improve our weakest position just a little then I think it can put us over the top. We should do any trade that we're going to do at the earliest possible opportunity so that this team can jell. It is counter productive to wait. We want to be playing great basketball by the end of April and try and get the best seeding possible. In case anyone is blind and stoopid, we suck on the road this year. HCA in the playoffs is more paramount than ever. Every series that we can gain the HCA is a great benefit. Making late trades does little to help us there. We take longer to fulfill our need and have less time to jell as a team.

dirkformvp
12-04-2003, 07:49 PM
very true, our man to man is good, but any other defense isnt as efficient as man 2 man, we need to focus on a big man but right now the only way to get a big man is to lose one of our big 5 and that wouldnt be good. if anything the possible people we would trade is jamison or walker. the longer we wait the less chance we will have to get a big man, we must gel the team so we can improve our fg%

LRB
12-04-2003, 08:11 PM
No, we don't need to lose one of the Big 5 to get a big man. We need a spare big man. That's it. And it won't cost one of the big 5 to get. We either do a trade with non Big5, non Bradley players or we pick one up as a FA. The pulls won a ring with Wennington, Longley, and a halfway in the grave Robert Parish. We need similar level spares. All 3 were at least 7' but were cheap to the bulls who had superior talent at the other positions.

Do you honestly think that we have to give up a Big 5 to get todays equivalent of Bill Wennington?

dirkformvp
12-04-2003, 08:13 PM
it really all depends on nellie and who he wants to get, if he's willing to use one of the big 5 to get a big man than he will just have to do it

LRB
12-04-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by: dirkformvp
it really all depends on nellie and who he wants to get, if he's willing to use one of the big 5 to get a big man than he will just have to do it

It would be the height of stoopidity to use one of the Big 5 to get a big man. Really there's just a handful that really make that much of an impact as a Big 5 player and a decent spare big man. Of that handful, it would mostlikely require at least 2 of the Big 5 if not more. And some are completely untouchable (Shaq, Duncan).

All we need is a place holder at the 5 spot. Someone who'll do better than our 6'8" center pretenders. That's not really that much to ask. We can get this without expending any talent or at the most just a nice spare or two.

dirkformvp
12-04-2003, 08:24 PM
yeah i guess, who would you trade to get a decent big guy for the back up of bradley?

LRB
12-04-2003, 08:27 PM
See the numerous trades posted about Delk for Mihm. That's a good start. We have some other players that we can throw in depending on needs and the value of what we're getting.

And there is always FA.

dirkformvp
12-04-2003, 08:29 PM
yes thats true but not for Mihm maybe for iguaskas(mispelled)

LRB
12-04-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by: dirkformvp
yes thats true but not for Mihm maybe for iguaskas(mispelled)


Won't know until at least Dec. 21st because we can't trade Delk until then. BTW Delk for Mihm works with the salaries. Delk for Big Z doesn't. Dallas would need to add lost of salary filler.

dirkformvp
12-04-2003, 08:47 PM
well i didnt mean delk only for big Z, i think it would be better if we traded for big Z with delk and somebody else