View Full Version : Finley for Brent Barry

12-15-2003, 07:53 PM
I am not a trade guy. I don't know how the salaries would work or what you would have to package... but I love the way this guy plays and I feel like finley's game is declining fast and that it might be best to move him now. . I havn't seen much of him though. He is a tremendous passer and shooter. From the Lakers games it is obvious how teams are trying to slow down the Mavs... make Nash go through hell. The more ball handlers and play makers we have the better we are. And his three point shooting would really spread defenses out even more. The most important thing is that we would have 3 guys that could handle the ball. Nash. Barry, and Walker. And we would have a tremendous three point shooting team. I noticed he has had some injury problems though. some missed time. Anyone know what this is from?

G Nash
G Barry
F Howard
F Walker
C Dirk

12-15-2003, 07:56 PM

Due to Dallas and Seattle being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Seattle had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did not happen here (only Dallas met the condition). This trade does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

You would have to dress it up a bit. A one-for-one violates the CBA.

12-15-2003, 07:58 PM
I figured that... I realize we would probably have to make it a package deal. That is what I am wondering though. Is there some way we could do it?

12-15-2003, 07:58 PM
Finley for Ray Allen straight up works.

But damn I hate trade scenarios.

12-15-2003, 08:00 PM
How do you get that Finley's game is declining fast? Was it the 38 points he dropped on the Clips? Or is it his improved defense this year? I don't get it.

Bottom line, though, is that there is no way we could or should trade Fin for Barry. Seattle has Ray Allen, and wouldn't be interested in Mike for that reason alone. Salary precludes it as well. Furthermore, as much as I like Barry, Fin is both better, and YOUNGER than BB.

12-15-2003, 08:04 PM
They are close to the same age... and Fin's game is about athleticism. Barry's game is about skill... whos would you rather have as they age? A skilled passer and shooter or an athletic player that dopesn't go to the whole enough and isn't a great shooter but shoots A LOT?

But the whole thing hinges on Fin's game... would you bet that he will continue to play well or will he decline?

12-15-2003, 08:11 PM
I don't expect Fin to get any better, but you're claiming that he's already heading towards suckdom, and I just don't agree with that at all. Fin means enough to this franchise that you're going to have to show me a clear upgrade at either SG or C for me to want to trade him at this point. We don't get that here. And Seattle wouldn't do it anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

12-15-2003, 08:14 PM
And Seattle wouldn't do it anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Because of the salaries you mean?

I think his shooting(especially 3's) and ball handling/playmaking would be a huge upgrade on our team. And Fin rarely goes to the hole so it isn't like Fin's athleticism really matters. I also think Nellie could work wonders with this guy.

12-15-2003, 08:30 PM
Seattle wouldn't do it because of Fin's contract, and they wouldn't do it because they already have a somewhat better SG in Ray Allen.

I'm not saying I don't like Barry. I've said elsewhere that I would happily endorse a trade of AJ for Barry and Booth. I just don't see him as an upgrade over Fin as the starting SG, so I wouldn't trade Fin for him.

12-15-2003, 09:38 PM
dumb trade. Mike is the heart and soul of this team. Without him we are a lottery team. You think just because he shoots 43% on wide open J's and he only gets 3 or so assist he should be traded for some 45% 3 point shooting whiteboy with great D? Lol, knee jerker. Mike is the Mavs, and Walker.

12-15-2003, 11:37 PM
oh yeah, mike is a terrible shooter. dirk just puts him to shame with his .449 percentage compared to mike's .443. and the three-point percentage....that's the kicker because dirk is shooting a scorching .286 compared to mike's .376. i've had enough of your sarcasm and dirk-glasses, so if you would just stop hijacking every thread with it, that would be great. thanks in advance.

12-15-2003, 11:39 PM
Trade Declined.

12-15-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl
oh yeah, mike is a terrible shooter. dirk just puts him to shame with his .449 percentage compared to mike's .443. and the three-point percentage....that's the kicker because dirk is shooting a scorching .286 compared to mike's .376. i've had enough of your sarcasm and dirk-glasses, so if you would just stop hijacking every thread with it, that would be great. thanks in advance.

this year, yes, check career fg%

and im serious, i wouldnt do the trade

12-15-2003, 11:54 PM
Berent Barry had a career high 16 assists about a week ago! wow.

12-16-2003, 12:03 AM
I luv barry!!! Please get Barry Please!!!

12-16-2003, 12:07 AM
and im serious, i wouldnt do the trade

could have fooled me...but if you are being serious, then at least you do have some sense in you.

12-16-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl

and im serious, i wouldnt do the trade

could have fooled me...but if you are being serious, then at least you do have some sense in you.

It is hardly a bad trade, sob dont talk to me about sense, i know more about the game then anyone here, or as much if you know as much as I do. Barry is a amazing player and I love him, but I don't do it for Mike.

12-16-2003, 12:41 AM
uhh, ok, since you say you know so much about the game i guess i will just have to believe you. now that i think of it, you have stunned me with your brilliiance about all things basketball.

anyways, the trade may not be terrible, but barry isn't of finley's class. i suppose the argument could be made that barry's style of play would be better for the team at this point, but i just don't think we should make any trade involving fin unless we obviously win in the talent department. it makes no sense to trade him for a comparable player because then we might as well just keep him because it shows our loyalty and i think he is important for the team chemistry.

12-16-2003, 12:53 AM
Finley isn't going anywhere. Its hard to not be tempted to use Howard over Finley but Finley should still start over Howard.

12-16-2003, 04:14 AM
link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/142842_smeet07.html)

Meet the Sonics: Brent Barry



HT / WT: 6 feet 6, 215 pounds

AGE: 31

ACQUIRED: August 1999 trade with Chicago when the Bulls took Hersey Hawkins and James Cotton and the Sonics landed Barry.

BOTTOM LINE: The final season of a six-year contract signed in 1999.


This is Barry's first full season as starting point guard. At age 31, he is the oldest Sonics player and was named co-captain after Gary Payton was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks.

He averaged 10.3 points last season, down from his career-high of 14.4 points in 2001-02. Barry played through tendinitis much of the season. He first told reporters of the injury before a December road game in Detroit, a good point of reference for showing just how much the injury affected him. Before that game in Detroit, he averaged 12.0 points and made 45.6 percent of his 3-point attempts. From that game on, he averaged 9.6 points and 37.9 percent of his 3-point attempts.


Coach Nate McMillan: "Brent can play with anybody. I think we want to make sure he's healthy. If he's healthy, it doesn't make a difference who's on the floor with him. He reads and understands the game well enough to defer his game or be more aggressive.

"He could play with Ray Allen, he could play with Ronald Murray, he could play with Antonio Daniels, he could play with Luke Ridnour. I think he could play with all those guys and be effective, productive, if he's healthy."


Have people said you look like Shaggy from "Scooby Doo?" "Yeah, that's what Rashard (Lewis) was saying. Then Ray was saying I looked like 'Salami' from 'The White Shadow.' "

What did you own first, a suit or a car? Suit. "I was a good Catholic kid, so I'm sure I had a suit for First Communion. That suit would probably fit Luke (Ridnour) right now."

Ever had a manicure? No. "But I know plenty of the other guys have, maybe even pedicures."

Bob De Niro or Al Pacino? De Niro, Barry's favorite role being in "Casino." Jack Nicholson is his favorite actor.

Do you know anyone else in the NBA who drives a Volkswagen Eurovan? "Nope." When told that MTV Cribs should come do a spot, his eyes lit up. "Yeah, just on my van."

12-16-2003, 04:21 AM
Position: guard
Height: 6-6
Weight: 203
College: Oregon State University
Born: December 31, 1971
Opening Day (2002) Age: 30
Drafted: 1995, First Round, Pick 15, Denver
NBA experience: Seven seasons (three with Sonics)
Hand: Right
Acquired: Traded by Chicago for guards Hersey Hawkins and James Cotton on August 12, 1999
Nickname: Bones
Contract status: Signed through 2003-04 season
Brent Barry Career Stats

2001-02 in Review: In his seventh season in the NBA, guard Brent Barry finally shed the label of underachiever that had dogged him since a strong rookie season, breaking out into one of the NBA’s best and most versatile shooting guards. Not expected to start after finishing the 2000-01 season strong as a reserve, Barry entered training camp as the starter and refused to give any ground to reserve Desmond Mason despite the latter’s fine play off the bench. As one of the older Sonics, Barry emerged as the team’s leader on and off the court, using humor to defuse potentially difficult situations. On the court, Barry put it all together. Arguably the league’s most efficient scorer, Barry shot 42.4% from three-point range and an astounding 58.8% from two, good for first in the league -- ahead of Los Angeles Lakers center Shaquille O’Neal. His overall field goal percentage of 50.8% placed Barry behind only the Utah Jazz’s John Stockton amongst guards. Once considered a potential point guard by Miami Heat coach Pat Riley, Barry shared ballhandling duties in Seattle with Gary Payton. He averaged a career-high 5.3 assists per game and only Chicago’s Fred Hoiberg had a better assist/turnover ratio as a shooting guard then Barry’s 2.58. Barry’s contributions on the defensive glass from the shooting guard position helped keep the Sonics from being outrebounded every game; his 5.4 rebounds per game placed him fifth amongst shooting guards. After serving notice of what was to come with a career-high 31 point outburst against Minnesota on November 27, Barry was at his best during the second half of the season as the Sonics secured a playoff spot. During the months of February and March, when Vin Baker was injured, Barry stepped up his offense, averaging over 17 points per game in each month while maintaining his efficiency. For the season, Barry averaged a career-best 14.4 points per game. The only downside for Barry came in the playoffs, as he largely disappeared in the Sonics’ five-game loss to San Antonio. Whether because of fatigue, the Spurs’ decision to defend Barry with Bruce Bowen, one of the league’s top defenders, or mere ill-timed slump, Barry averaged just 7.8 points per game in the series on paltry 41.2% shooting.

Previous NBA Career: Part of a family with deep roots in the NBA (father Rick is a Hall of Famer, brother Jon a veteran now with Detroit who preceded Brent into the NBA, brother Drew a former Sonic who followed him, and brother Scooter played NCAA ball), Barry was a late bloomer at Oregon State University who developed into a mid-first-round pick. The Denver Nuggets took Barry 15th overall in 1995 and traded him hours later to the Los Angeles Clippers as part of a package for second pick Antonio McDyess. Barry had a strong rookie season in Los Angeles where he appeared on track to be a possible star after averaging 10.1 points per game. Barry capped the season with a Slam Dunk Championship at All-Star weekend. The proverbial sophomore slump hit Barry during the 1996-97 season. Injuries limited him to 59 games, none of which he started, and Barry’s field-goal percentage dropped 65 points from his rookie season. He righted himself during year three, starting 36 of the 41 games he played in Los Angeles, but was traded at the trade deadline to Miami for center Isaac Austin. Barry struggled to adapt to Riley’s complicated system and a return to the bench and was left off the Heat’s playoff roster. A free agent after the lockout’s conclusion, Barry got his payday from the Chicago Bulls, who hoped to make him the replacement for recently retired Michael Jordan. Barry flopped, averaging 11.1 points per game on unacceptably low 39.6% shooting. Looking to cut their losses, the Bulls flipped Barry’s long-term contract to the Sonics for guards Hersey Hawkins and James Cotton. Barry replaced Hawkins as Seattle’s shooting guard for the 1999-2000 season and posted career-bests in points, rebounds, and assists, but there were cracks beneath the impressive surface. Near the end of the season, with the Sonics struggling, then coach Paul Westphal replaced Barry in the starting lineup with Shammond Williams, and Barry played sparingly during the post-season. When he reported to training camp the following fall, Barry found his starting job given to first-round pick Mason. Injuries slowed Barry at the beginning of the season, but the change at head coach from Westphal to Nate McMillan seemed to revitalize Barry, who returned to the starting role in December. By season’s end, Barry had found a groove coming off the bench behind starter Emanual Davis. Barry’s 49.4% shooting was a career-high, in large part thanks to remarkable 47.6% three-point shooting, the top mark in the NBA.

Shooting/Scoring: Simply put, there is no weakness in Barry’s offense. Though he is most adept spotting up in the wings for his feathery release from beyond the arc, Barry is equally comfortable working with the ball in his hands. At times, he seems to be able to drive the lane almost at will. When Barry puts his head down on a ferocious charge to the basket, he is rarely denied. His excellent leaping ability, as evidenced by the Dunk championship, makes Barry a very good finisher in the lane. The mid-range element of Barry’s game is less in evidence, but is there if he needs it. On top of this, Barry is also a fine free-throw shooter, making 84.6% last season. The only question mark for Barry offensively is aggressiveness. At times, he has a tendency to disappear within the offense, and his 12.4 field goal attempts per 48 minutes last season were one of the lowest marks on the Sonics. This tendency was exacerbated by the presence of Baker; with the Sonics looking to establish their erstwhile power forward in the post, Barry’s contributions were often overlooked.
Grade: A+

Floor Game: There is no longer talk of making Barry a point guard (of course, one Gary Payton might have something to do with that), but he handled a significant portion of the ballhandling duties in Seattle last season, allowing Payton to play off the ball. Pairing rookie backup point guard Earl Watson with Barry in the backcourt allowed Watson to make a smooth transition to the NBA. Unlike many catch-and-shoot types of similar skill, Barry can easily rotate the ball if a shot is not there or take off on the dribble. His main flaw in terms of ballhandling has always been attempting to do too much, leading to turnovers. Barry has yet to cure this and probably never will -- if that’s even desirable -- but he is much headier with his decisions as he gains experience.
Grade: A-

Rebounding: Barry’s 5.4 rebounds per game last season were the culmination of steady improvement. He is almost a complete non-factor on the offensive glass because he spends so much time on the perimeter. On defense, however, Barry is skilled at crashing the boards from outside, though he’s not much in terms of boxing out.
Grade: B

Defense: Throughout his career, Barry’s main weakness has been man defense. Though he is quick with the ball and in the open court, Barry’s feet are a step slow, giving him trouble defending quicker opponents. For the most part, Barry did not have to defend high-scoring types last season, with those assignments generally going to Mason or Payton. Away from the ball, Barry plays the passing lanes well thanks to his 6-6 height and long arms. Barry led the Sonics with 1.8 steals per game, a mark which put him in the NBA’s top 20. Though he is skinny -- hence the nickname “Bones” -- Barry’s 6-6 height means he is not a liability defending the post.
Grade: C

Intangibles: A riotous clubhouse personality who might have a future in stand-up comedy if he were not busy with basketball, Barry is well-liked by both teammates and fans. Though he had previously shown little inclination towards leadership, Barry filled the Sonics’ leadership vacuum by doing little things like leading pre-game huddles and taking out rookies Vladimir Radmanovic and Peja Drobnjak. Previous questions about Barry’s proneness to injury and inconsistency were largely answered when he played in 81 of the Sonics’ 82 games last season and scored double-figures in 35 of the team’s final 36 games.
Grade: A

Overall: There is a small minority of Sonics fans who have been quick to question Barry’s place with the team in the wake of his playoff disappearing act. Far more representative of Barry’s importance to the team, however, was his regular-season performance. Though teammates Baker and Rashard Lewis received far more attention in the local and national media, Barry was clearly the Sonics’ second-best player after Payton last season. The thought of losing him to a lengthy injury, despite the presence of a solid alternative in Mason, is unimaginable. Barry’s contract was once considered prohibitive to trade, but he now is one of the league’s better bargains. Though Barry was a bit old to post the best season of his career last season, he still has plenty of basketball left in his body, hopefully all with the Sonics. Barry’s personality makes him an ideal fit for the new Sonic style emphasized by owner Howard Schultz, and there is already talk of him remaining in the organization following his retirement, be it as an assistant coach, in the front office, or a color commentator. With Baker traded to Boston, the Sonics will have more possessions to go around next season, and a large number should end up in the hands of Barry, meaning he could better his career-high in scoring for the third time in four seasons. Barry should also benefit from having his minutes decreased slightly be the presence of Kenny Anderson, who gives the Sonics a veteran third guard they can trust with heavy minutes.
Grade: A-

Brent Barry is with good reason a KeyArena favorite who receives the second-most applause in pre-game introductions. In the opportunities for fans to interact with the team, Barry’s outgoing personality always shines through. At the team’s season ticket holder party two seasons ago, Barry unexpectedly took the mike and began cracking jokes about his teammates. He also had the crowd in stitches at a booster club meeting he spoke at. For reasons I can’t entirely explain anymore, I was initially cool to Barry during his first season in Seattle. By the beginning of this season, however, he had completely won me over. With Watson departed, Barry is now my favorite Sonic.

12-16-2003, 04:22 AM
BOTTOM LINE: The final season of a six-year contract signed in 1999.

Maybe we can sign him as a free agent...or in a sign and trade?

12-16-2003, 04:34 AM
Here is an article about a rumored trade last september:

link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/138888_sonx10.html)

Wednesday, September 10, 2003

Barry deal unrealistic
Rumored trade involving Pacers' Artest would not work with Sonics' salary cap


The New York Post reported yesterday the Sonics were mulling a trade that would send Brent Barry to Indiana for Ron Artest.

Make that mulled. Sonics team policy is to not comment on trade rumors, but it's believed that any consideration is all in the past.

Indiana may be interested in Barry, who is in the final year of a contract that will pay him more than $5 million this season.

Barry is a Sonics captain and will be the starting point guard. Rashard Lewis is the only player with more tenure on the team than Barry, the oldest player on the roster at 31.

Pacers forward Artest, 23, is talented enough to be intriguing. He's also been in enough trouble to give pause to any team interested in him. He was suspended five times last season -- four times by the league and once by the team. Artest committed six flagrant fouls last season, most in the league.

Conduct isn't the only baggage. There's also his contract. Artest begins a six-year contract this season that will total more than $45 million. He received a raise of more than 20 percent, and because the Pacers are over the salary cap, it makes Artest a base-year compensation player.

A base-year compensation player is difficult to trade because his salary counts 50 percent of its actual value to his team. However, his salary would count as full value to the team that acquires him. That makes it hard to meet the league's trade standard, which stipulates a team over the salary cap can't take back more than 115 percent plus $100,000 of the salaries it gives up.

Stated simply, Artest is difficult to trade to a team over the salary cap, such as the Sonics. In fact, he's impossible to trade in a one-for-one player swap with a team that's over the salary cap. More players -- or more likely another team -- would need to be involved for it to work.

Artest's agent, Mark Bartelstein, said yesterday he didn't know of any reality beyond the rumor.

12-16-2003, 09:14 AM
This is from the most recent Marc Stein chat on ESPN.com:

Will, Seattle: Brent Barry is expendable because the Sonics two best guards at the moment are Ron Murray and Luke Ridnour. He'll be our 4th or 5th best guard once Ray Allen returns from injury. I realize he will more then likely keep his starting spot this season, but he wont be finishing games and it's clearly Luke, Ray and Flip manning the guard spot for the forseeable future. Until we land a legitimate center (Dampier?), everyone not named Luke, Ray and Rashard is expendable. I'd love for Brent to finish his career in Seattle, but I fealt the same way about Dale Ellis and that didn't work out either.

Marc Stein: Don't agree with you here. I don't think Murray and Ridnour are proven yet. I understand Barry is a movable commodity because he's in the last year of his deal, but when the Sonics are at their best, it's usually because Brent is at the heart of all the ball movement.

Well.. they probably won't want Fin... another guard or small forward... but maybe a three way trade?

12-20-2003, 12:55 PM
Is there some way we could convince Seattle to make this trade?

Dallas trades: Tariq Abdul-Wahad ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Brent Barry (11.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.7 apg in 32.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +11.3 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and +4.7 apg.

Seattle trades: SG Brent Barry (11.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.7 apg in 32.4 minutes)
Seattle receives: Tariq Abdul-Wahad ( ppg, rpg, apg in games)
Change in team outlook: -11.3 ppg, -3.3 rpg, and -4.7 apg.


Due to Dallas and Seattle being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Seattle had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


You have been assigned Trade ID number 1352223

12-20-2003, 04:08 PM
Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.8 apg in 37.5 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.2 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Vladimir Radmanovic (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.3 minutes)
SG Brent Barry (11.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.7 apg in 32.4 minutes)
C Vitaly Potapenko (2.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 11.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.0 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and +2.1 apg.

Seattle trades: PF Vladimir Radmanovic (13.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.3 minutes)
SG Brent Barry (11.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.7 apg in 32.4 minutes)
C Vitaly Potapenko (2.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 11.8 minutes)
Seattle receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.8 apg in 25 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 20 games)
Change in team outlook: -3.0 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and -2.1 apg.


12-22-2003, 10:10 AM
That is a nice one Turkey!

Send it to Cubes!