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View Full Version : Gasol and Stojakovic-best intl players in the NBA?


rakesh.s
12-17-2003, 12:17 AM
wtf is this all about..for the first time, i watched nba fastbreak tuesday and legler and anthony are saying that stojakovic is the best european right now and gasol can become the best

i was shocked to not even hear Dirk mentioned

dirno2000
12-17-2003, 12:31 AM
I don't put much stock in anything they say. While Peja is having a better year than Dirk I can't imagine that there are many GM's in the league who would take him over Dirk.

Nash13
12-17-2003, 12:34 AM
Obviously, Legler nor the rest of them watch the whole Kings game tonight. Peja missed 8 of his last 10 shots. Peja has had a recent history of not hitting shots in crunch time, but i'd rather have him than any other small forward in the league.

It's possible that Legler forgot about Dirk.

dirno2000
12-17-2003, 12:49 AM
It's possible that Legler forgot about Dirk.

I wouldn't doubt it. Sometimes those guys get caught up in the moment.

OzMavs
12-17-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by: rakesh.s
wtf is this all about..for the first time, i watched nba fastbreak tuesday and legler and anthony are saying that stojakovic is the best european right now and gasol can become the best

i was shocked to not even hear Dirk mentioned

Did they mention Savovic? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

ames7
12-17-2003, 01:00 AM
I bet they just forgot about Dirk. Analysts love his game, you hear him called one of the best or THE best international player in the league all the time. Everyone always wants to find the "next Dirk Nowitzki." Rarely do you hear "next Peja Stojakovic " although he is a very good player.

Jamisonite
12-17-2003, 02:00 AM
You are forgetting the AK47 also known as the only euro that plays D

ames7
12-17-2003, 02:06 AM
Oh that's true! And Kirilenko's having a really good year too.

ReDIRKulous
12-17-2003, 07:38 AM
I am not so worried about what people think of Dirk's game right now.... I want him to be the best European player when it counts... in the playoffs. Hopefully that is why he hasn't turned the intensity up to maximum yet.

kg_veteran
12-17-2003, 09:33 AM
This was simply a case of the analysts talking about the game that was being played.

Either that, or they're really dumb.

Peja's a nice player and all -- an All-Star caliber small forward. But if you were starting a team, there are a lot of names that would come up before Peja to build around. There aren't many that would come up before Dirk.

Dooby
12-17-2003, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by: OzMavs

Originally posted by: rakesh.s
wtf is this all about..for the first time, i watched nba fastbreak tuesday and legler and anthony are saying that stojakovic is the best european right now and gasol can become the best

i was shocked to not even hear Dirk mentioned

Did they mention Savovic? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Genius.

Hitman
12-17-2003, 03:28 PM
Its amazing how short peoples attention spans are. Dirk Nowitzki has had a sub par (for him) first 20 games of the season, but a lot of that has to do with injuries, lots of new teammates and a new position.

Have Peja or Gasol come close to matching Dirk's playoff performances? No. And when January and February roll around, and the season starts to heat up, Dirk's numbers will rise again.

Just like they always do.

Peja_owns
12-18-2003, 12:40 AM
Kings fan here. I would just like to say that I Dirk is an amazing player, stronger than peja and can post up. But let me give my 2 cents. Dirk is the Mavs best player and leader while Webber is for the kings. Now just look at how Dirk is playing. He doesn't look like a leader anymore with Walker in the lineup. With Walker in, Dirk seems to not like to lead as much as before. Same with Stojakovic. Stojakovic is playing great this season but I know his numbers will go down a bit when Webber returns. Webber is the kings best player and leader and it seems that Walker is the new leader for the mavs.

Walkerforthree
12-21-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by: Peja_owns
Kings fan here. I would just like to say that I Dirk is an amazing player, stronger than peja and can post up. But let me give my 2 cents. Dirk is the Mavs best player and leader while Webber is for the kings. Now just look at how Dirk is playing. He doesn't look like a leader anymore with Walker in the lineup. With Walker in, Dirk seems to not like to lead as much as before. Same with Stojakovic. Stojakovic is playing great this season but I know his numbers will go down a bit when Webber returns. Webber is the kings best player and leader and it seems that Walker is the new leader for the mavs.

well walker's not, so you're wrong.

Walkerforthree
12-21-2003, 05:17 PM
And to the subject, it means NOTHING. Because in the past BOTH LEGLER AND ANTHONY have called Dirk the best NBA player from Europe EVER. Everyone knows Dirk is better then Peja and Gasol. Dirk's a 2nd team all-nba guy, peja is lucky if he's third. Gasol, lol, talk about a bad year and regression!

Mandyahl
12-21-2003, 05:50 PM
Gasol, lol, talk about a bad year and regression!

the same thing could be said about dirk.

NYCdog
12-21-2003, 10:09 PM
Are we talking best best International player in HISTORY????????????

Cause if we are, you guys are way off base...............

Hakeem Olajuwon has to be the absolute true best international player of ALL-TIME. Despite not being from Europe, he's as international as you can get. And unfortunatly, because he is not from Europe and from Africa, most people tend to forget this legend when it comes to rating the best international players this league has ever seen. Its like only European players are international players. Not one of today's players could take over a game and dominte it like he could. Plus, he's the only player so far in history to TRULY DOMINATE Shaq like he did in the 95 Finals. Without a shoadow of a doubt Hakeem Olajuwon has to be the best international basketball player ever.

I also think if Drazen Petrovic had lived to continue his career with the Nets, he also could have been one of the best international players of all time...........its too bad we never got to experience what he could have become.

I will say this though............AK47 no doubt will give both Peja and Dirk a run for there money in this catagory. And if he continues his developement under the wing of Jerry Sloan, he will pass up both Peja and Dirk in this catagory............THAT IS if he ever gets the media attention and pub they get with him playing in Utah.

Walkerforthree
12-21-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl

Gasol, lol, talk about a bad year and regression!

the same thing could be said about dirk.

that was my point Sherlock. People keep saying it about dirk this year, so check out Pao too.

Walkerforthree
12-21-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by: NYCdog
Are we talking best best International player in HISTORY????????????

Cause if we are, you guys are way off base...............

Hakeem Olajuwon has to be the absolute true best international player of ALL-TIME. Despite not being from Europe, he's as international as you can get. And unfortunatly, because he is not from Europe and from Africa, most people tend to forget this legend when it comes to rating the best international players this league has ever seen. Its like only European players are international players. Not one of today's players could take over a game and dominte it like he could. Plus, he's the only player so far in history to TRULY DOMINATE Shaq like he did in the 95 Finals. Without a shoadow of a doubt Hakeem Olajuwon has to be the best international basketball player ever.

I also think if Drazen Petrovic had lived to continue his career with the Nets, he also could have been one of the best international players of all time...........its too bad we never got to experience what he could have become.

I will say this though............AK47 no doubt will give both Peja and Dirk a run for there money in this catagory. And if he continues his developement under the wing of Jerry Sloan, he will pass up both Peja and Dirk in this catagory............THAT IS if he ever gets the media attention and pub they get with him playing in Utah.


We are just talking about best player from Europe. And Dirk is way better then Drazen, I've seen Drazen play in person, he was more notable for the fact he was the first breakthru euro, he wasn't that great a nba player, though he was quite good. By the way, dirk has the HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGE EVER BY A EURO at 25.2

You tell me when peja or gasol top that, ak47 too
you tell me when gasol, peja or ak top 10 rpg in 2 straight years

I'll wait

NYCdog
12-21-2003, 11:30 PM
Walker........

In Gasol's and AK47's defense............how long have they been in the league for.


2 FULL SEASONS EACH..............and you actually have the nerve to ask if AK and Gasol has ever topped 10rpg for 2 season straight. Duh! They've ONLY played TWO SEASONS..............that's it. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

And how long has Dirk been in the NBA.................5 FULL SEASONS. And with his experience in this league, I expect the kind of numbers he puts up. He's a damn good player and one of the best Euro players, no doubtin that.

But how about giving Gasol and AK47 some time to blossom and develope as players.

I'm sure you did the same for Dirk when he came into the league.......

............BUT THEN AGAIN, they way you talk about Gasol and AK47's play as they try to develope, I'm sure you were a naysayer of Dirk as he developed too.

Walkerforthree
12-22-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by: NYCdog
Walker........

In Gasol's and AK47's defense............how long have they been in the league for.


2 FULL SEASONS EACH..............and you actually have the nerve to ask if AK and Gasol has ever topped 10rpg for 2 season straight. Duh! They've ONLY played TWO SEASONS..............that's it. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

And how long has Dirk been in the NBA.................5 FULL SEASONS. And with his experience in this league, I expect the kind of numbers he puts up. He's a damn good player and one of the best Euro players, no doubtin that.

But how about giving Gasol and AK47 some time to blossom and develope as players.

I'm sure you did the same for Dirk when he came into the league.......

............BUT THEN AGAIN, they way you talk about Gasol and AK47's play as they try to develope, I'm sure you were a naysayer of Dirk as he developed too.



LMAO you are so off and don't even know it. I love AK, he's me 2nd favorite player in the NBA, and I knew Dirk was special before he even played in the NBA so don't you dare lecture me. Im just saying Dirk is w/o doubt the best euro, thats a testament to dirk, not a knock on Peja, Pao or AK, just you let me know when they get 10 rpg, or 25 ppg, or 2nd all nba team, then pm me, and where's the excuse for Peja here? He's played 5 years.

Jamisonite
12-22-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by: Walkerforthree


LMAO you are so off and don't even know it. I love AK, he's me 2nd favorite player in the NBA, and I knew Dirk was special before he even played in the NBA so don't you dare lecture me. Im just saying Dirk is w/o doubt the best euro, thats a testament to dirk, not a knock on Peja, Pao or AK, just you let me know when they get 10 rpg, or 25 ppg, or 2nd all nba team, then pm me, and where's the excuse for Peja here? He's played 5 years.

Ok Ak will prob never average 10 rpg cuz he is 6'9 and a SM(right now hes averaging more rbs than dirk neway) and he may also never average 25ppg. He will prob average 18 points per game at his best. But you know what you are forgetting. Is that Dirk does not play defense and AK is one of the best defensive players in the league. You can put Aks offense in the same breathe as dirks but dirk would have to cough up a lung in comparison to AKs D.

Walkerforthree
12-22-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree


LMAO you are so off and don't even know it. I love AK, he's me 2nd favorite player in the NBA, and I knew Dirk was special before he even played in the NBA so don't you dare lecture me. Im just saying Dirk is w/o doubt the best euro, thats a testament to dirk, not a knock on Peja, Pao or AK, just you let me know when they get 10 rpg, or 25 ppg, or 2nd all nba team, then pm me, and where's the excuse for Peja here? He's played 5 years.

Ok Ak will prob never average 10 rpg cuz he is 6'9 and a SM(right now hes averaging more rbs than dirk neway) and he may also never average 25ppg. He will prob average 18 points per game at his best. But you know what you are forgetting. Is that Dirk does not play defense and AK is one of the best defensive players in the league. You can put Aks offense in the same breathe as dirks but dirk would have to cough up a lung in comparison to AKs D.

lol, ok, so 25 ppg and 16 ppg are comparable (Dirk to AK)
But 1 bpg and 1 spg aren't comparable to 2 spg, 2 bpg (Dirk to AK)

Bayliss
12-22-2003, 03:21 PM
Right now Peja and AK are playing better than Dirk. But here's the scary thing that makes Dirk better. Even though Dirk has been bad this year, he is putting up numbers very close to those other players.

NYCdog
12-23-2003, 02:24 AM
Walkerforthree...........

Honestly, there is so much Bullshit in your previous post............it would LITERALLY clog up the New York City Sewer System.

So I guess its time for "yours truly" to bust out the Liquid Drano and send you down the drain..........where you belong.


LMAO you are so off and don't even know it..

Let me get this straight.................according to the resident "Dallas-Mavs.com basketball genius".........

I am so way off because...............I SUGGESTED that you may need to give AK and Gasol more time to develop as players before you can FAIRLY compare there games, stats, numbers, awards etc.... to the likes of ESTABLISHED PLAYERS in this league like Dirk???http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/229031_rolleyes.GIF

I am not even gonna bother here..............why waist my valuable time.


I love AK

You do.........really? You kiddin me, right? http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/229031_nod.GIF

Well if you love him so much, why donít you give him any credit here?

Why cant you see what this kid has done in only two full seasons.............and realize the potential for stardom and greatness in the future is obviously there in him?

This kid is BLUE COLLAR TALENT. He does it all, on offense and on DEFENSE as said by Jamisonite. I suggest you watch this kid play in person and you will see............. unlike most spoiled young players who are concerned with style points on dunks and shoe contracts, that AK is almost an old school style talent who doesnít seem to care about any of this. Instead, he plays like there is no tomorrow, hustles on every lose ball, plays hard on defense like if the championship were on the line, on every single play................in short, he puts it all on the line each time he steps out on the court.

When it comes to young players.............I cant think of no one else who even remotely plays as hard as he does.

And so what if he hasnít done what Dirk has done in his TWO FULL SEASONS played. With the way AK plays, you canít underestimate what he might be able to do in the future. He just might be able to post the same numbers...........or maybe even better.

Just give the kid a chance to develop. Cause I guarantee you, his play will make you eat your words and crow............not me.


so don't you dare lecture me..

I just thought this was so damn funny.................

What are you gonna do to ME...........Whoop my ass? http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/229031_laughing.GIF

Why donít you try acting like a civilized person here and leave your petty little threats at home. I never resorted to going this low in any of my posts toward you. I just posted my opinion.............I suggest you stick to doing the same.


and where's the excuse for Peja here? He's played 5 years.

And yeah...........there is a logical reason for this too.

Its obvious your reading skills need to be polished a bit.

Cause if you were to read all of my posts in this thread.............you would see that I never tried once to defend Peja.[/b]

And if you might ask why................Cause Dirk is obivously a better player then Peja, hands down.

My defense is mostly for AK47, a player who obviously deserves it with his play on the court.

So your beef is obviously not with me on this one...............see the NBA Fastbreak crew and Sacto Kings fans on this one.

So in short Walker..................you lived up to your name and "went for three" on this one..................and "CLANKED" IT off the iron like Toine' did the other night in the loss to Boston. http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/229031_laughing.GIF

Nice try though kid.........

Jamisonite
12-23-2003, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by: Walkerforthree


lol, ok, so 25 ppg and 16 ppg are comparable (Dirk to AK)
But 1 bpg and 1 spg aren't comparable to 2 spg, 2 bpg (Dirk to AK)

Dirk has only averaged 25 points one season...so do me a favor and quit throwing that number out there like hes god. Right now hes scoring 19 points per game and his career average is 20. and obviously all u do is look at stats. i dont care if dirk got 20 blocks a game...he still doesnt try on defense...AK is getting those number as a 6'9 sf not a 7 foot center/pf. AK plays hard on d...as NYCdog said...you need to see him live before you can even try and argue against him

Peja_owns
12-23-2003, 04:07 AM
Right now Peja and AK are playing better than Dirk. But here's the scary thing that makes Dirk better. Even though Dirk has been bad this year, he is putting up numbers very close to those other players.

Some of you guys have so much love for dirk that you get blinded by facts. FACT is that DIRK is the #1 scoring option for the Mavs last season and that was the only time he averaged 25 ppg. Peja on the other hand is the #2 scoring option, but since Webber isn't playing, Peja is #1, so he gets more touches. Who is better? I would say Dirk is better IF he doesn't play center. Dirk is bigger, stronger, can post up better, rebound better. But Peja is a better shooter. Peja is averaging FG 52%. And thats not high percentage shots like shaq either.

4cwebb
12-23-2003, 02:25 PM
Can't this entire thread be boiled down to the point that Peja and Pau are playing better than Dirk this season (as someone pointed out above). Dirk's having an off year for various reasons to date, so he currently isn't the best Euro playing right now.

I would agree that if GMs were starting a team, and had only Euros to choose, they would choose Dirk first more times than not (if not all times).

Oh, and a point about Dirk's rebounding...it appears since the addition of Walker that Dirk wasn't a natural rebounder, but that he was a rebounder by necessity...his rebounding average has fallen by over three per game (I think) from last year to this year, merely because someone else on the team is showing some effort on the boards. That's disappointing in my opinion...it's not as if the Mavs are a good enough rebounding team for Dirk to stop showing the effort on the boards which he has exhibited the previous two seasons.

Walkerforthree
12-23-2003, 03:00 PM
Dirk is still averaging 8 rpg, including a game with only 7 minutes.

EricaLubarsky
12-24-2003, 04:06 AM
Peja is an animal- and Pau is an incredible talent

I dont want to compare Dirk to any of them since Dirk's game only slightly resembles Gasol's game and looks nothing like Peja's. Peja knows how to score. Period. Dirk knows how to get points on the scoreboard. period. He has been elevated to superstar status as the leader of an elite team but the leader and the star are not the same person for the Mavs. Take Dirk as what he is- a scoring machine that is developing like the other international players. He has yet to show that he can be an elite player like Larry Bird but he has done good things for this team and he is still young.

At the end of the day Gasol, Stojakavic and Nowitzki have my respect- they are all phenomenal players who have been gifted with incredible height, but have worked to hone their skills to godly levels and that is why they stand out.

NBAFan7
12-24-2003, 08:30 AM
at this point in the season, there's really no argument here. It goes Peja, AK47, Dirk then Pau. I looked at Pejas FG% the other day and it was over 50%, that's pretty damn good for a guy who shoot mainly jumpshots. Its no debating, Peja is hands down the best Euro in the game right now.

4cwebb
12-24-2003, 10:10 AM
Strengthened by last night's performances, wouldn't Dirk potentially fall to 4th best Euro? 6 points all night against the Blazers? His ankles must really be bothering his long-range shooting...his threes looked terrible last night.

kingrex
12-24-2003, 11:56 AM
There are 2 questions here: who is the best euro playing right now? AND who is the best euro so far in their career?

The contenders are: Dirk, Pau, AK & Peja.

To the first question, basing it solely on their production to date THIS year, no doubt that Dirk is last place.

To the second question, you could argue for any of the four to be first depending on your point of view. Dirk has shown a greater ability to do more things on the court plus he is 7-feet tall. Pau is the most polished low-post scorer of the four. Andrei is the most athletic and best defender of the four. Peja is a great shooter and improving passer.

For my money, I'll take Dirk (as long as his ankle do not become a long-term factor). He is a freak of nature at 7-feet to do the things he does offensively. That will always prove to be an advantage for my team. I like Pau second because of his low-post ability (which is getting better). It is somewhat of a toss-up for me between AK & Peja, but since Peja is older (I think?) then I'll take Andrei for long-term potential and defense.

Walkerforthree
12-24-2003, 04:40 PM
You can't base who's the best euro off one year, its asinine, A OF DATE DIRK IS THE BEST EURO OF THE 4, ITS STATISTICAL FACT IF YOU LOOK PAST JUST THIS YEAR, LOOK AT THE CAREER'S. YOU CAN'T SAY ANYONE ELSE IS BETTER BASED OFF 25 GAMES IN ONE YEAR!

And NCYDog, you are way off, i freakin started the "I love AK47" thread for god's sake. But as of now, Dirk is better, end of discussion, we'll see in the future, put dirk on the jazz by the way, and his stats rocket.

And no, even this year dirk is having a better year then Pao.

jayC
12-25-2003, 09:27 AM
Through 28 games maybe. Dirk has struggled mightily. Peja has lite up the league with his play of late. 41 two nights ago, hes shooting 50 percent from the field. Gasol meanwhile has been good in the paint and has shot a good percentage from the field.

Walkerforthree
12-25-2003, 10:04 PM
31/14/5 plus 3 steals and 3 blocks

Never seen Peja, Gasol or even AK do that in a game

Peja_owns
12-25-2003, 11:41 PM
I already said that I would rather take Dirk. So whats your point walkerforthree?

Mandyahl
12-26-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
31/14/5 plus 3 steals and 3 blocks

Never seen Peja, Gasol or even AK do that in a game

what about 30/14/3 plus 4 steals and 4 blocks? because kirilenko did that in a game against philly this year...

Max Power
12-26-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
31/14/5 plus 3 steals and 3 blocks

Never seen Peja, Gasol or even AK do that in a game

what about 30/14/3 plus 4 steals and 4 blocks? because kirilenko did that in a game against philly this year...

Don't confuse Walkerforthree with facts

Walkerforthree
12-26-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by: Mandyahl

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
31/14/5 plus 3 steals and 3 blocks

Never seen Peja, Gasol or even AK do that in a game

what about 30/14/3 plus 4 steals and 4 blocks? because kirilenko did that in a game against philly this year...

well, good job then, lol i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

I must of forgotten that game. But kudos, you are correct indeed. However, Peja or Gasol would never have such a game imo

AK47, that must be his career high in scoring, or mabye 33. Because he rarely scores ocer 30.

Walkerforthree
12-26-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: Mandyahl

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
31/14/5 plus 3 steals and 3 blocks

Never seen Peja, Gasol or even AK do that in a game

what about 30/14/3 plus 4 steals and 4 blocks? because kirilenko did that in a game against philly this year...

Don't confuse Walkerforthree with facts

Mods, please read this, thanks