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V
12-18-2003, 11:15 PM
Thoughts?

Jamisonite
12-18-2003, 11:43 PM
Wallace is a cancer. Look at what hes done in portland...absolutely nothing. All he does is cause trouble. Hes very talented but his attitude is horrible and it more than cancels out any shred of talent that he might have. On top of this a trade for wallace might screw us in the future. Nash is FA next year and so is Wallace. And walker has the option to opt out of his contract and with wallace here he just might do that. If wallace comes to dallas that will be the day i loose all faith in mark cuban

Jeremiah
12-18-2003, 11:45 PM
I just don't see any reason to add him. He'll defer like AJ, and he'll do the little things as well. But really, I don't think he does anything better for us than our current personnel.

MikeB
12-19-2003, 12:12 AM
Rasheed Wallace is tremendously talented and a complete headcase who doesn't like WHITE people. How in the hell is he gonna fit in with Dallas? Plus while he can score and defend in the post...he really doesn't like to do either and if you think Dirk has been drifting lately Sheed is even worse. In theory...maybe...but in reality it would probably be disasterous.

PS- Jamsonite is probably right that they would all opt out and we would be left with less team than we have now.

V
12-19-2003, 11:32 AM
I am really suprised by the results so far... 66% in favor of adding Wallace!!

I love Wallace... but I thought I would be in the vast minority due to perceived off-the-court troubles...

Perhaps the responses will change if we get more votes? Or maybe this is just fallout from two consecutive losses.... or maybe more people are seeing the bigger problem.... i.e the Mavs have allowed teams to shoot 45% over the last 10 games (posting a record of 5-5)... and 47% over the last 5 games losing 3 of those 5.

Giving up 45% shooting is good for second to last in the NBA

Giving up 47% ... well that's good for last.

Overall for the season this team is in the bottom 6 or 7 both in points allowed per game & opponents fg percent.

Keep the votes & comments coming. This is interesting. Thanks

Edit: Spelling

Dirkenstien
12-19-2003, 11:52 AM
Sheed in a cancer that would not help this team out..he's lost the passion for the game and seems to be more concerned about other things as is shown in his latest embarrasing quotes. I agree with Jamisonite in the sense that the day we trade for Wallace is the day I'll also lose all faith in Cuban to make this team a title contending club.

V
12-19-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
Sheed in a cancer that would not help this team out..he's lost the passion for the game and seems to be more concerned about other things as is shown in his latest embarrasing quotes. I agree with Jamisonite in the sense that the day we trade for Wallace is the day I'll also lose all faith in Cuban to make this team a title contending club.

Whoa.

I disagree... but I like your passion. Keep 'em coming! i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Dirkenstien
12-19-2003, 12:00 PM
I would like to know who is voting Rasheed as the answer and for them to provide solid information that would back up such opinions. So far the only ones that have actually posted on their votes have been in favor of not adding Rasheed while provided legitimate reasons in doing so. Are these pro-Sheed people struggling to find any good reason Sheed should be here?? I think so.

kg_veteran
12-19-2003, 12:01 PM
I'd like to change my vote. I voted that he was the answer, but Kiki has finally changed my mind.

I want no part of Rasheed.

V
12-19-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'd like to change my vote. I voted that he was the answer, but Kiki has finally changed my mind.

I want no part of Rasheed.

Doh!! Too late... you already voted i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

I've already posted my thoughts in another thread HERE (http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=14127)... High points below:
---------
In the eight seasons Wallace has been in Portland, the Blazers have been so busy trying to find their franchise player that they never noticed he was already right there, the guy with the headband and bald spot, rocking in vintage Air Force Ones.

Despite the inconsistencies in salaries, character and coaching techniques, there is, was and will be only one player in Portland who is, has, will be still shooting 50 percent from two-point range in every season as a Blazer on a variety of devastating snap dunks and deadly turnaround jumpers from the baseline; one guy who increased his 3-point shooting from 16 percent in 2000 while hitting only eight triples to 35.8 percent in 2003 while hitting 110; one guy who remains the team's best interior defender while losing very little on the perimeter.

There is only one guy recognized by every franchise but the one he's on for what he is... a marvelous basketball talent.

LRB
12-19-2003, 02:48 PM
I voted cancer, but I might take a chance under the right circumstances. We'd just need to haver our chemotherapy prepared when he arrives.

V
12-21-2003, 02:57 PM
19 votes & the majority has finally turned against 'Sheed... now only 47% of you think that he's "the answer."

I'd like to get a few more votes & then maybe we can let this thread die... unless something happens relevant to Sheed & the Mavs, of course....

Stay tuned....

V
12-23-2003, 10:45 AM
Mavs in hunt for Wallace?
By Art Garcia
Star-Telegram Staff Writer


NBAE-GETTY IMAGES/JONATHAN FERREY
Rasheed Wallace is "one of the toughest matchups in the NBA," Mavericks assistant Donnie Nelson said.


PORTLAND - If ever there was a poster boy for what ails the NBA -- and possibly all of professional sports -- Rasheed Wallace could be the guy.

He's rich beyond the wildest dreams of most, but feels exploited by the league that has made him so. He's vulgar and volatile. He's uncooperative and, some believe, uncoachable.

He has turned off a fandom that was as rabid and loyal as any in basketball. His team's management would love nothing better than to ship him out of town.

Once the centerpiece of a franchise on the brink of a championship, Wallace won't be part of Portland's future.

And, though talent alone doesn't erase considerable baggage, it does provide for second chances. Fresh starts. New leases.

Wallace will be in a uniform next season. It just won't say "Blazers" on the front.

It just might say "Dallas."

Though the the NBA's tampering rules prohibit the Mavs from discussing the possible acquisition of Wallace, team sources confirm a definite interest in the nine-year veteran. A deal for Wallace before the Feb. 19 trading deadline isn't likely, but the Mavs could be in hot pursuit of the troubled star when he becomes a free agent after the season.

Expect the Mavs to be mentioned in almost any trade rumor dealing with Wallace -- or almost anyone else -- from now until the deadline. The team's brass, however, insists it is done dealing unless a "no-brainer" is presented.

"We're answering phones," president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said. "We're always looking to upgrade our front line. That's why we did the last two trades [for Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison]. But we're not going to make a trade just to shake things up."

The Mavericks (15-11) would rather shake their losing ways, having dropped three in a row heading into tonight's game in Portland. The two-game road trip ends Christmas Day in Sacramento.

There's little doubt that Wallace has the physical tools to help the Mavs, who didn't address their need for a dominant presence on the front line during the off-season. Wallace, 29, is averaging 17.2 points and 7.0 rebounds per game this season.

"He's one of the toughest matchups in the NBA," Nelson said. "He's a 6-11 guy who can play bigger because of his length. He can shoot the 3, block shots; he's a solid rebounder, good passer and athletic. When he's focused, he can be an excellent defender."

Focus has to be the chief concern. Wallace's unique set of skills should place him in the exclusive category of MVP-caliber power forwards, yet he's not mentioned in the same circles as Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki.

Wallace's laundry list of indiscretions and suspensions runs the gamut from drug charges to obscene gestures. He has had run-ins with the NBA, the law, officials, teammates, opponents, coaches, management and fans.

"I don't know what Rasheed aspires to," Blazers coach Mo Cheeks said. "I know he's a very talented player, and I know he loves to win. In saying that, I don't think he wants to go out and be a star who has 35 points and 20 rebounds night in and night out. He's capable of doing it, but I don't think he aspires to be like that."

Would a change in scenery change his motivation? Wallace is in the last year of his contract at $17 million, and Portland would rather not lose him without compensation. The Blazers can move Wallace before the trading deadline or attempt a sign-and-trade deal next summer.

Waiting does involve the risk of Wallace signing with another team as a free agent, leaving Portland with nothing in return. Considering the market and his history, it's doubtful Wallace would receive a contract approaching his current pay scale.

The Mavericks, according to sources, would be interested in signing Wallace to a contract starting at the mid-level exception, expected to be about $5.4 million. A sign-and-trade is also a possibility.

"Rasheed Wallace is a good guy, and he's a good teammate, and those are two things you have to look at if you're thinking about bringing him on your team," Cheeks said. "Maybe he's done some things or said some things that weren't perfect, or maybe they were things he thought later that he shouldn't have done or said, but we've all done that at some point.

"Is he going to get condemned for it? Over the long haul, I don't know."

The Mavs have a successful track record recently with so-called "problem" players. Other than Dennis Rodman, the team incorporated several players with troubled reputations to varying degrees. Nick Van Exel and Christian Laettner are two that came and went with nary an incident. Walker and Danny Fortson were added before this season.

Van Exel found an unlikely ally in Mavs assistant Del Harris, his former coach with the Los Angeles Lakers. Harris also knows Wallace well, having been with Portland in an advisory capacity before joining the Mavs at the tail end of the 1999-2000 season.

Nelson said the support structure is a product of the Mavericks' core players -- Nowitzki, Steve Nash and Michael Finley -- coach Don Nelson and the culture created by owner Mark Cuban.

"It starts in the locker room with the character of the Big Three," Donnie Nelson said. "People want to be a part of this environment. It's a certain degree of professionalism. And, outside of the locker room, Mark's commitment and drive to win only enhances it.

"And when you talk about Nellie, he's seen and done it all. If someone isn't pulling his weight, he gets called out. If he gets called out too often, he'll get planted to the bench, and, after that, we won't stand for it."

MightyToine
12-23-2003, 12:04 PM
Ugh! i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif

kingrex
12-24-2003, 12:33 PM
I chose the third, but I would add "only if he has matured". The only thing preventing Wallace from being the best at his position is his mind-set and attitude on the court. I dont' mean his surly toughness, but rather his penchant to self-destruct and cost his team at the worst time possible. I have watched this Portland team intermittantly this year, and I've actually seen an improvement in Wallace.

Normally, I would choose the first one, but like I said I've seen an ever so-slight change in Wallace this year. I think getting Wallace's rebounding, help-side defensive-ability and low-post scoring will give Dallas the inside-outside game that could put them over the top.

V
12-24-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by: kingrex
I chose the third, but I would add "only if he has matured". The only thing preventing Wallace from being the best at his position is his mind-set and attitude on the court. I dont' mean his surly toughness, but rather his penchant to self-destruct and cost his team at the worst time possible. I have watched this Portland team intermittantly this year, and I've actually seen an improvement in Wallace.

Normally, I would choose the first one, but like I said I've seen an ever so-slight change in Wallace this year. I think getting Wallace's rebounding, help-side defensive-ability and low-post scoring will give Dallas the inside-outside game that could put them over the top.

Good objective post Rex... most people on this board think that I want Wallace in Dallas... but that's not necessarily true. I'm sort of the neutral on Wallace while most posters are clearly polarized...

On Wallace it's Cancer versus The Answer...

Bringing Wallace to Dallas is a HUGE gamble... but if he comes to play the upside is greater than just about any other option we have... including, btw, any of the other top-tier players that have been discussed on this forum - TMac, Big Z, Bryant, Kidd/Martin, etc.

I've watched a lot of the Blazers & I think - at times - Wallace has shown something this year. But I've also seen some negatives. For example... He is playing out of position this year at the SF.... and although I've seen strong defensive effort... and an uncanny ability to funnel players to difficult spots ... he needs weakside help against smaller, quicker players. And when it's not there I've him shake his head at the mistakes of his teammates rather than play though it. I've also seen him drift... refusing to post up. And I've seen him run the pick & roll... and refuse to roll.

So what's the upshot? You just don't know what you're going to get.

V
12-24-2003, 01:09 PM
From Mike Fisher at Dallasbasketball.com

Wallace, the troubled Portland ought-to-be-a-superstar-but-isn’t, is the subject of so many Mavs-related trade rumors that we’ve decided to quit laughing it off as some sort of nightmarish joke and to instead give it serious consideration.

Rasheed Wallace – the man who brother-in-Blazerdom Bill Walton recently referred to as a “chronic underachiever,’ “a malcontent,’’ “a disruptive force,’’ “a negative personality, selfish, emotionally immature, bitter, endlessly angry, ‘a boor,’ ‘a bully,’ “a lost soul’, a lunatic, “obnoxious,’ “sad’ and ‘pathetic’ (and that was all in just one Walton paragraph) – as a member of Mavericks Utopia?
Maybe.

Let’s deal with the basketball stuff first. Most of the rumors have Dallas giving up someone of quality (Antoine Walker? Michael Finley) to acquire Wallace. Purely in terms of basketball ability, that sort of a swap would be tempting. Mavs officials scoff at anything like this, insisting that it is Portland soliciting deals, none of which have tempted Dallas. Still, in terms of Dallas’ on-court needs, Wallace gives the Mavs things they do not presently have.

Between Dirk Nowitzki, Antawn Jamison and others, the Mavs can find people to do Walker-like work. Between Nowitzki, Tony Delk and Josh Howard, the Mavs can find people to do Finley-like work.
No, Walker and Finley aren’t superfluous here. Dallas simply is loaded with perimeter offensive talent.

But – and this is only on-court-related now – people who can do the things on both ends of the court like Wallace does them (or at least can do them) are hard to find.

The 6-11 Wallace, still just 29, is a brilliant post defender (have the Mavs employed one of those in our lifetime?), a quality perimeter defender of 4’s and maybe even 3’s, a capable rebounder (8.2 boards once upon a time), a good leaper and shot-blocker (1.7 blocks a game this year), and a versatile scorer with range beyond the arc (and even with the 3’s he’s shot better than 50 percent from the floor in five of his nine seasons).
The greatest conflict between Rasheed’s personality and his game: On the floor, he is exceedingly unselfish, a fine and willing passer. Wallace could possibly handle a Don Nelson ‘point forward’ role, and at the very least could be like what Nowitzki is working to be in terms of having the offense run through him.

However, if it was just about basketball talent, Portland would never give him up. Ever. He’d be Mr. Blazer. He’d be a six- or seven-time All-Star instead of a two-time All-Star. His Portland teams would be achievers, and he’d be the leader of the achievements.
Unfortunately for the Blazers, Rasheed Wallace is a nut.

And now we get to the juicy non-basketball issues.

Wallace is constantly in trouble with either the team, the league or the law. When he doesn’t speak (refusing to cooperate with the media in last year’s playoffs), the NBA hits him with a $30,000 slap. When he does speak, he says things like:

“I know I'm Public Enemy No. 1. … They (NBA higher-ups) look at black athletes like we're dumb-ass n------. It's as if we're just going to shut up and sign for the dollars and do what they say. … In my opinion they just want to draft n------ who are dumb and dumber, straight out of high school. … I ain't no dumb-ass n----- out here. I'm not like a whole bunch of these young boys out here who get caught up and captivated into the league.’’

I’ll admit one thing: If I were a Blazers fan, man, would I be longing for the days when Rasheed did get captivated by being in the NBA.
And just when Wallace supporters worked to make known his extensive contributions to charity, Rasheed made known his decision to keep his pot habit hidden came to him only after his wife told him the controversy reflected badly on her and the kids.

Says ex-Blazers superstar Bill Walton: “Wallace is a chronic underachiever, a malcontent, a disruptive force, a negative personality -- and that does not even begin to address his selfishness, emotional immaturity, bitterness and endless anger. I have also personally found him to be a boor and a bully. Those of us with the misfortune of ever having anything to do with this lost soul had to unfortunately accept the lunacy and obnoxious behavior of this sad and pathetic individual.’’
Says NBA commissioner David Stern: "Mr. Wallace’s hateful diatribe was ignorant and offensive to all NBA players. I refuse to enhance his heightened sense of deprivation by publicly debating with him.’’
It has been argued that Wallace’s ignorant remarks came by design – that he was attempting to create a stir that would force Portland to trade or release him. Nice try, but Wallace’s career-long behavior has been this ignorant, and therefore, using that logic, what? He’s been trying to win his release from Portland since the day he got there?
His pedigree (North Carolina, fourth overall pick, a Philly-born respect for basketball’s roots) belies his problems. Wallace’s volatility could, theoretically, be funneled in the proper direction. So far, playing ‘Angry Young Black Man’ has mostly added up to league records in technical fouls.

The Blazers now seem intent on getting their finances and their image in order. The recent trade of equally troubling Bonzi Wells to Memphis for guard Wesley Person, cash and a first-round draft pick was such a step. Person will be a free agent next summer, so the Blazers open up cap room and open up the nuthouse gates with the deal.
Can Rasheed Wallace be had in the same manner?

The Blazers could let Wallace walk when his contract expires next summer. But they’ll get nothing for him until then except continued headaches. If they swap him? Forget about reports that the Blazers must get a big man in return, or anything else in return. In the Portland public eye, trading him for someone with talent who also has a quality rep as a good person (Finley?) would be applauded. Period.
That same concept – perception, reputation – would be on the line if Dallas ever pulls the trigger on this deal. Nellie has been here before, with that really good Golden State team that, he finally decided, needed to roll the dice to get bigger and better. It didn’t work there. It didn’t work again in New York, when Nellie thought he could rescue Patrick Ewing’s career and instead discovered that he wasn’t really in charge of Ewing at all.

Nellie talks often of how much he enjoys coaching ‘these kids,’ the members of the Mavericks culture who don’t skip practices, don’t get arrested, don’t buck the system unnecessarily. Dallas fans have become spoiled by the good nature of this bunch. Having to deal elsewhere with headstrong, volatile, angry superstars has been Nellie’s undoing twice, and if the Mavs’ Bible-Belting public had to deal with Wallace (and too few major successes), it could be the franchise’s undoing.
You could sew Ewing and Webber together, ‘Stuck On You’ style, and it wouldn’t add up to the ugliness Rasheed Wallace brings.
Bottom line: Other players whisper about how Rasheed is loafing in games (17 points and seven rebounds a game are numbers he could achieve without even trying). He openly talks about the money ($17 mil this year, in his case) being the overriding issue in everything. And there is a story going around that when Wallace goofs up in a game, opposing players poke fun at him by suggesting -- to his face – that he’s high.
You want Rasheed Wallace? You take him

kingrex
12-24-2003, 01:35 PM
Like I said, I like him for his skills, but will he ever mature?

Dirkenstien
12-24-2003, 04:06 PM
not a gamble id be willing to take in exchange of one of our talents.

V
12-26-2003, 12:24 PM
From Greg Anthony at ESPN Insider:

Q. Taheri, Centreville, Va.: Do you think the Blazers are looking to move Rasheed Wallace, or are they waiting it out for his contract to end? Also, what's with Darius Miles and the DNP's he's collecting? Has Paul Silas given up on him?

Rasheed Wallace
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
25 17.2 7.0 3.0 .434 .716


A: In terms of Rasheed, this is perplexing for Steve Patterson and John Nash, the Blazers' President and GM, respectively. While Rasheed often has been a PR nightmare with this team (especially after his recent comments), he is still their best player. This team is desperate to make the playoffs and own the outright record for most consecutive playoff appearances, something owner Paul Allen covets.

The problem with a trade is that most teams that would be willing to give Portland equal value also want assurances they can re-sign Rasheed, and he has a short list of teams with which he is willing to extend. Also, there still is hope the Blazers can turn things around with the existing roster, making a trade less likely. But being winless on the road doesn't help, and the patience they have shown might start to dissipate.

V
12-26-2003, 02:35 PM
From Hoopsworld

Rasheed Wallace is feeling the heat over the team, his performance, and his recent comments in the Oregonian. Rasheed is getting very frustrated over the occasional mental lapses by many of his teammates. This was very evident in Rasheed being upset over the constant ability of the Spurs to get to the rim. Rasheed also understands his need to be more active in the post and has played effective games over the last few nights in the post. He is taken a more active and vocal role with the team in this regard. Rasheed is also taking serious heat from his close friends and family over his comments to the media. Rasheed is even more doubtful of the media, but also seems to be opening a glimmer of understanding as to the reasons why Rasheed needs to learn how to effectively communicate with the media.



The Blazers recognize that the biggest weakness on the team is at the small forward position and have inquired about Tracy McGrady for Rasheed Wallace, which is one of many conversations that the Blazers had about trading Rasheed. They also inquired about Paul Pierce and were similarly rebuffed.

Cybertx
12-26-2003, 03:59 PM
The Blazers recognize that the biggest weakness on the team is at the small forward position and have inquired about Tracy McGrady for Rasheed Wallace, which is one of many conversations that the Blazers had about trading Rasheed. They also inquired about Paul Pierce and were similarly rebuffed.[/quote]

lol wallace for tmac or pierce that's a joke.

I vote for the third because wallace is a better defender than anybody that we already have but i would not give any of our top 5, they can get najera, fortson,delk and best or a similar package but it's too risky to give some our best 5 players for him in his last year of contract(probably walker).
But i don't think that cuban wants to trade najera he brings over 5 million a year in rights from Mexico and he pulls a big mexican public.

LRB
12-26-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by: Cybertx
But i don't think that cuban wants to trade najera he brings over 5 million a year in rights from Mexico and he pulls a big mexican public.


But just think of the Columbian public that Wallace can draw. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Cybertx
12-26-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: Cybertx
But i don't think that cuban wants to trade najera he brings over 5 million a year in rights from Mexico and he pulls a big mexican public.


But just think of the Columbian public that Wallace can draw. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

lol

I think wallace can be controlled just don't put him around guy that will follow his lead to do bad things and he will have to settle down.

I think finley, dirk, nash and even AJ can put him on track.

They have done it with fortson, van excel and walker

bernardos70
12-26-2003, 07:39 PM
He's no answer to the mavs needs, he's a cancer. I wouldn't mind seeing portland just straight up pay this guy off and release him. I wonder if anyone would pick him up. Actually I bet there's a team dumb enough in the league to hire his services, after all, memphis traded for bonzi wells.

Max Power
12-26-2003, 08:16 PM
All I want for Christmas is to never EVER see CTC Wallace in a Mavs uniform!

V
12-26-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by: bernardos70
He's no answer to the mavs needs, he's a cancer. I wouldn't mind seeing portland just straight up pay this guy off and release him. I wonder if anyone would pick him up. Actually I bet there's a team dumb enough in the league to hire his services, after all, memphis traded for bonzi wells.

You can't be serious?! You "wonder is anyone would pick him up?" I'm trying to stay objective on this subject... but you've got to be kididng. Of course Wallace would be picked up. And before he signs there would probably be 28 teams asking his price... (maybe $40M starting around $8M/yr ??). So if he's released don't act suprised if the winning bidder is your Dallas Mavericks.

V
12-26-2003, 08:17 PM
Meet Rasheed Wallace, thinking man | From Alan Grant at ESPN

OK, this is a tough one. First off, thanks, RW. I woke up this morning, thinking maybe I should suggest doing something on Rasheed Wallace. Last night, I read pieces by Bill Walton, Rick Bucher and Ray Ratto on the errors of 'Sheed's ways. Predictably negative responses all, but no one posed the question: Why? Why did he say those things? What would make one think such things, then have the cajones to actually give them utterance? Why? It's the same response I have to folks who bring up the black coach issue. They agree that it's strange there are so few black coaches, but no one dares ask why.

But "why bother?" I asked myself. No one wants to hear that maybe 'Sheed is just bored with the game the way any grown man who makes his living at a child's game eventually gets bored and starts to notice things outside himself. It's inevitable for the thinking man (and yeah, despite the clumsy way he expressed his thoughts, I do reluctantly call 'Sheed a "thinking man"). I also know, from experience, that the thinking man/athlete (a slash is needed here because throughout my life I've been told that this is a unique strain of human being) might only suppress his thoughts for so long until they come gushing forth like a fart. Excuse you, Rasheed Wallace.

I gasp each time an athlete reaches down into the well of "social consciousness" and emerges with a cup only half full. I grow tense not because of what he's saying, but because of what he's omitting. And I'm compelled to fill in the blanks. I believe that search for dumb and dumber extends to the corporate sector. There is an all-points bulletin for dumb n-----s, who will gladly bury their opinions, bug their eyes, shuck and jive, and of course sell out the other not-so-dumb n-----s, all for the sake of "diversifying" the workplace. David Stern strikes me as a fairly bright man, so he undoubtedly detects a ray of truth in 'Sheed's words.

But what does all this have to do with sports, specifically the Portland Trail Blazers? Perhaps nothing.

I'm going back to bed.

V
12-26-2003, 08:19 PM
From Marc Stein

Embarrassment of the Trimester: Rasheed Wallace's exploitation "speech."

As Charles Barkley recently said: "What Rasheed said may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard in 20 years in the NBA. People who work for huge corporations and aren't making any money, those are the people being exploited."

V
12-26-2003, 08:29 PM
From ESPN The Magazine

Opposing coaches rank the Rasheed Wallace dead even in talent with Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.

Blame the 6'11" forward's solid-but-unspectacular numbers on the Blazers' depth and his unselfishness. Shutting down the opposing team's best frontline scorer, providing help defense, making the extra pass, delivering rally-crushing dunks and sweet turnaround J's -- that's what makes him an All-Star. What is uncertain is if Wallace can stay clear of the officials long enough to get it all done.

"He's almost the perfect basketball player," [former coach] Mike Dunleavy says. "Great size, great athletic ability, great outside shot, great post-up game. He can guard guys off the dribble, and defend on the block. He's a total team guy. What else could you ask for? Just that one thing."

But to get that one thing -- a semblance of composure -- Rasheed Abdul Wallace will have to be convinced he isn't selling out. It's not enough for him to remember where he came from. He wants to make sure you never forget either. That's why his 'fro is rarely trimmed or combed, and why he resolutely wears those way-out-of-date Nike Air Forces. He rents an apartment in Philly every sticky July and conducts free camps at his alma mater, Simon Gratz High. He's appalled by teammates' offers to teach him golf. "Gamers don't play golf," he says. His underwear still consists of practice shorts and NBA socks, so he's always prepared in case a game breaks out, just as his high school coach taught him. If that keeps everyone but his family and fellas away, so much the better.

The truth is, R.A.W. is more than his monogram and the moniker for his charity foundation and radio show. "I must've known something," says [his mother] Jackie, "because he is raw." As in a big ol' softie. One who does as much charity work, in both Portland and Philly, as any player in the league. Who lights up when he autographs a photo for a girl with Down's syndrome, and when she kisses his cheek. And who patiently stands in line with his three sons so they can sit on Santa's lap, and then hovers, making sure the boys are in place and behaving.

But he's also the guy who resents NBA referees because he sees no indication that basketball, or winning and losing, means as much to them as it does to him -- and yet they're telling him what he can and can't do. "Half of them are short and most of them never played," he says. "They're into the power trip." It's that perspective, as much as anything, that earns him points at home. "Philly kids respect Rasheed more than anybody," says his former rec league coach, Tennis Young, "because he's the ultimate Philly player."

Jackie worked hard to keep him in line growing up in Philly, and now she sits in an elegant lakeside house in Durham, N.C., courtesy of Rasheed's six-year, $80 million extension signed before the '97-98 season. She knows where her son gets his combativeness.

There's a Blazers sticker on the front door and Tar Heel decals in the windows, and Jackie plans to plant team flags in the front yard as well. She knows that will violate community rules but adds defiantly, "I'm going to put them out there and see what they do." She once asked a high school player brought to tears by her son's dominance, "You want a tissue?" So she smiles when somebody mentions the fruit not falling far from the tree. "I guess," she says, "I might be responsible for a little bit of what he does."

She had the first of her three sons -- Rasheed is the baby -- three months shy of her 17th birthday, and raised them working full time as a public welfare case worker. That none are in jail or dead or strung out is a minor miracle, considering the neighborhood. North Philly is where once-elegant brownstone and brick row houses are now boarded up, their windows covered by plywood, front doors padlocked and stamped with orange "Do Not Trespass" stickers. Where every other block sports an abandoned car stripped, gutted and sometimes torched. Where the numbers on the few houses still occupied are in gray spray-paint scrawl. The only break in the dreariness is the bright orange double rims and fresh backboards on the summer-league outdoor courts.

"When you're in Philly, there is no other world," says Malcolm, at 32 the oldest of Jackie's sons. "You're just in Philly."

It was in that world that 'Sheed learned from two pairs of opposites -- his two older brothers and his two coaches. Malcolm is as much of an introvert as Muhammed, two years younger, is an unabashed extrovert. Both now work for 'Sheed's foundation. Then there are the two men who shaped Rasheed as a player -- Young, now a R.A.W. foundation board member, and Simon Gratz High coach Bill Ellerbee. Young taught Wallace to play from the perimeter with hip-hop swagger. Ellerbee made Wallace into a no-frills, back-to-the-basket center.

So is it any surprise, then, that Wallace is a bundle of contradictions? He is fundamentally sound, calmly passing out of the stiffest double-teams, yet there are the primal screams and the technicals. He's always wearing a black knit cap, even in practice, and he has tattoos on both arms, giving him the look of a longshoreman. But then you find out the bulldog is the Gratz mascot and the Egyptian mural is a family portrait of 'Sheed, wife Fatima and their three boys.

On the rare times you find him in the Blazers' dressing room while it is open to the media, he has his back to the room and earphones on, an invisible but perceptible "Do Not Disturb" sign over his head. But then there's the day he and teammate Antonio Harvey, in front of a handful of reporters, stage an impromptu pro wrestling bout in the middle of the locker room, complete with faked elbow drops, ricochets off imaginary turnbuckles and unexpected mock blows of a chair from behind. His avoidance of the media is particularly striking since he is part of it as co-host of a hip-hop Saturday night radio show.

Ellerbee says he has never had a more astute player, which makes 'Sheed's no-win knucklehead harassment of the refs all the more perplexing. The Wallace family theory is that he's too much of a team guy to yell at his fellow Blazers when they're not playing hard, so he vents on the striped shirts. "There's only one game that it cost us, the loss to Dallas," Dunleavy says. "But there were other situations he put us at risk. It could definitely hurt us down the line."

The league and the refs clearly have their radar up for 'Sheed, which is why his teammates sympathize with this problem rather than criticize him for his outbursts. Example: The same ball-slam that earned him a T against the Knicks goes unpunished when Celtics center Tony Battie does it a few nights later against Portland, the ball winding up on the Blazers' bench in the lap of swingman Stacey Augmon.

"No T?" Augmon asks referee Mike Mathis. "If 'Sheed did that, it'd be a tech." Wallace, standing at the foul line, turns around and says, "You know that!" Mathis, ignoring 'Sheed, says to Stacey, "He's paranoid enough, don't do that."

During a Celtics' trip to the line later in the game, Wallace barks at referee Hank Armstrong, "Watch the three seconds, please!" Armstrong barks back, "We are watching it!" then exchanges a smile and a nod with Mathis. The next trip down the floor, Mathis whistles Wallace for an offensive foul the first time he touches the ball. Coincidence? Maybe, but Oliver Stone has worked with less.

If 'Sheed won't relent, it's because he believes, as Malcolm does, that the refs will come around. "It happened with Barkley," says Malcolm. Or maybe it's the Muhammed side of him, the one that publicly tortures the refs just because he can. But feeling picked on is not new. Cora Griffin, his childhood babysitter, says Rasheed hated being teased about his height. It didn't help that he had a round birthmark of blond curls at the top of his afro, a mark that didn't change to its present snow white until after he became a Carolina Tar Heel.

While the father of Malcolm and Muhammed died in a shooting, Rasheed's father, a well-known Philly high school player named Sam Tabb, was still around and would occasionally promise to pick Rasheed up and take him to the movies. Tabb wouldn't always show, though, and Rasheed would spend the day on the porch, waiting. Sensitive? "If you yelled at him the tears would come to his eyes," Young recalls. "I couldn't stand him and he couldn't stand me. He'd look at me and breathe hard."

But Young admits he encouraged Rasheed to let his emotions take over on the court. "Some of that crazy stuff might come from me," he says. "I'd tell them, 'If we don't win, we're all going to die!' That's a Philly coaching tradition. I told him you have to bang that drop-step dunk and then growl at them.

Ellerbee doesn't let you do that kind of stuff."

The dunk, yes, the growl, no. Wallace rode some bench for both coaches, though, which they believe is the key to keeping Rasheed under control.

"No offense to Dean Smith," Young says, "but he'd let Rasheed get away with murder and still play him." Ellerbee says Rasheed drew one technical his entire high school career, for punching the stanchion pad in frustration over a defensive mistake -- a call Ellerbee considered so egregious he got ejected protesting it. But Ellerbee also played him only 19 minutes a game his senior year and benched him once when he started the game with his hair uncombed. Wallace fumed for an entire quarter before tightening up his 'fro.

Wallace insists he won't let his temper get in the way of a Blazers title run, noting that he has never been tossed from a playoff game. But the people who know him best say there's no a la carte service with 'Sheed -- it's all or nothing.

"When he's crazy, you're seeing his true self," Young says. "It's not an act. He flies right off the planet, and it's hard to bring him back."

Should that happen in the postseason, something else will fly off into space: the Blazers' title dreams.

V
12-27-2003, 02:30 AM
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Portland plays host to Minnesota in Part II of Friday's ESPN doubleheader, leaving only two more Blazer dates on the Worldwide Leader's schedule between now and the Feb. 19 trading deadline.



Significance: Breathe deeply, because we could be down to our last few nationally-televised glimpses of Rasheed Wallace in the Pacific Northwest.


On Feb. 8, it's Seattle at Portland. On Feb. 18, it's L.A. Clippers at Blazers on the night before the deadline.


Then again...


What if Portland is serious about turning down anything less than a no-brainer trade offer and letting 'Sheed walk at season's end without compensation? I can't believe that the Blazers would part with their most tradeable asset so freely, just for the promise of major salary-cap space in the summer of 2005. Yet executives from the teams that have tried in recent weeks to pry 'Sheed away keep saying that the Blazers are seriously prepared to do just that.


Prepared to let 'Sheed play out his contract and then wipe $17 million off the Portland payroll in July.


If that really does happen, this summer's resulting 'Sheed Sweepstakes should be quite spirited. There will be only a few teams possessing the cap room to make Wallace a better-than-average offer -- if they're so inclined -- and lots of teams praying that 'Sheed would be willing to join them for a mid-level exception worth about $5 million next season.


At that price, 'Sheed would have to make many more ridiculous attacks on commissioner David Stern to scare teams off. There will be a significant clutch of suitors ready to "CTC" and risk hearing 'Sheed announce to the world that he's being exploited. Again.


This week's Stein Line looks at the list of would-be 'Sheed bidders:



Philadelphia 76ers
Everyone knows the Sixers need toughness and size on their front line. It's even more clear that 'Sheed needs a community that can understand and accept him. If he's not embraced in his hometown of Brotherly Love, he won't be loved anywhere. Hard as it is to imagine Randy Ayers coping with Allen Iverson and 'Sheed in the same locker room -- given the questions already floating about Ayers' handling of AI and (more specifically) Derrick Coleman -- this would be a dream signing for Philly. And then if the Sixers can somehow get Mo Cheeks away from the Blazers...



Dallas Mavericks
No team is linked more often with 'Sheed than Mark Cuban's team, but the Mavericks would rather not part with a core player like Michael Finley or even Antawn Jamison to trade for 'Sheed. Especially if the Blazers' letting him walk is a legitimate possibility. There are concerns that 'Sheed's penchant to hover on the perimeter would clash too much with Dirk Nowitzki's tendencies, but 'Sheed would inarguably become the Mavericks' best defender instantly. Maybe the bigger concern is the Mavericks' two-decade streak of missing out on marquee free agents. Cuban will be a strong contender if the bidding centers around teams with no more to offer than the mid-level exception, but Dallas has had its hopes dashed before. Just rewind to last summer's free-agent frenzy, when the Mavericks' mid-level exception netted... no one.



Miami Heat
If Pat Riley was willing to gamble on Lamar Odom, he'll be more than ready to sign 'Sheed. That's doubly true when you consider that 'Sheed's salary would come in at roughly half of Odom's yearly take. If 'Sheed can't get more money elsewhere and has to choose between teams (and cities) offering the mid-level, the lure of South Beach will be strong.



New Jersey Nets
Assuming the new owners continue to let Rod Thorn be aggressive, the Nets will also be a player in the 'Sheed Stakes... whether or not they hang onto Kenyon Martin. Either Martin will continue to be used as a sign-and-trade lure for 'Sheed, or Thorn will really have his way and re-sign Martin to a reasonable extension and then try to bring 'Sheed in for the mid-level exception. Of course, with the Nets also expected to be searching for a new coach, that would add up to another very expensive summer.



Detroit Pistons
The Pistons wouldn't appear to have a huge need for another big man with Ben Wallace and Mehmet Okur already in place, Elden Campbell on the books for one more season to provide depth and Darko Milicic on the scout team. Joe Dumars, though, is always aggressive and won't be able to resist chasing 'Sheed if he's on the open market. It's even more of a given when you remember that Okur will be tough to keep, unless the Pistons can move Chucky Atkins to clear more salary-cap room. Okur might well be this summer's Gilbert Arenas; Detroit won't be able to give him a raise beyond the league's average salary (nearly $5 million) unless it gets more than $5 million under the cap.



The field
Let's be honest. The list of Eastern Conference clubs that will be interested in 'Sheed stretches all the way to Portland. Isiah Thomas in New York will undoubtedly take a swing. Ditto for John Gabriel (or whoever is running the Magic) in Orlando. Larry Bird, Donnie Walsh and Rick Carlisle? Probably. Atlanta's new owners figure to make a bid, in hopes of making an early splash, assuming they ever get league approval to take over down there. Cleveland's basketball people would also love to get involved, but Cavs owner Gordon Gund is from the conservative old guard and would have to be convinced to change his policy when it comes to bringing in a rogue like 'Sheed. As we covered last week, Cleveland could certainly tempt Portland with a Zydrunas Ilgauskas-for-'Sheed trade right now if Gund were willing.


"Any team in the East is going to be hot after him," said one West executive, "because he could be the difference in a team in the East going to the Finals or not."


As for additional Western interest, Memphis is an intriguing possibility. Attempting to put 'Sheed alongside Pau Gasol is a classic Jerry West move, but you wonder whether even The Logo would dare reuniting Bonzi Wells and 'Sheed. San Antonio, meanwhile, has been exploring trades for 'Sheed, but signing him as a free agent would be tougher for the Spurs, who first must worry about re-signing Manu Ginobili. The Argentinean slasher is another Arenas/Okur waiting to happen, which is why the Spurs have a good bit of cap room saved for the summer of '04, to make sure they keep Manu before going after anyone else.



The wild card
That would be Denver. The Nuggets can outdo any of the aforementioned teams in terms of money because they will have significant salary-cap space available. It's difficult to imagine 'Sheed giving Utah or the L.A. Clippers a look just because those teams have money to spend, but the Nuggets are in a different category. Even with Nene Hilario and Marcus Camby in the frontcourt rotation already -- along with long-term project Skita Tskitishvili -- Kiki Vandeweghe is a member of that Daredevils Club with Cuban, Dumars and West. He can spoil a lot of dreams out there by pitching some serious cash to 'Sheed.



The long shot
Portland could always re-sign him at a lower rate than 'Sheed's current $17 million salary, and the Blazers are indeed sending signals that they're open to that very scenario. Color me skeptical, though. Sounds like a tactic to get teams to sweeten their trade offers, with the deadline for deals looming Feb. 19. Portland either wants an unquestioned star player in return for 'Sheed or a slew of expiring contracts packaged with at least one future first-round pick. If the Blazers are offered neither in the next six weeks, they risk letting 'Sheed walk away for nothing or, at best, will have to try to construct a sign-and-trade deal with his cooperation. I just can't see 'Sheed re-signing with the Blazers without a sign-and-trade involved, because that would enable Portland to ship him anywhere it wants down the road.

EricaLubarsky
12-27-2003, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by: LRB
I voted cancer, but I might take a chance under the right circumstances. We'd just need to haver our chemotherapy prepared when he arrives.

Im not a poster here who is calling for Nellie to be fired but I do not have faith in him to coach such a wild player. As long as Dallas has Nellie as coach we should not see Rasheed Wallace here. He will always be a cancer but I believe there may be a coach that could have a chance of channeling that hate or at least preventing it from hurting the team.

V
12-27-2003, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Originally posted by: LRB
I voted cancer, but I might take a chance under the right circumstances. We'd just need to haver our chemotherapy prepared when he arrives.

Im not a poster here who is calling for Nellie to be fired but I do not have faith in him to coach such a wild player. As long as Dallas has Nellie as coach we should not see Rasheed Wallace here. He will always be a cancer but I believe there may be a coach that could have a chance of channeling that hate or at least preventing it from hurting the team.

It may be worth pointing out that Don Nelson seems to think Wallace's off-court transgressions are perceived to be "worse" than they were... I remember an interview with Norm when Nelson suggested 'Sheed is a great teammate... and is well liked in most NBA circles. Nelson would NOT agree that Rasheed Wallace is a cancer.

EDIT: Clarity

V
12-27-2003, 03:22 AM
Rasheed Wallace (from The Oregonian):

"If it was true that I just cared about the money, then my whole attitude would be different. I want to win every game, and I want to go out a winner. If I retire from this league and I haven't won at least one championship, I'll feel like all my years in the league would be a failure," Wallace said. "As far as the CTC goes, it's a business and you can't put your personal feelings before that.

"I would like to be out here, my wife likes it out here, and she's established out here. My kids have friends out here and go to school out here. I would say we're intertwined in the community. But if I have to go somewhere else and play, I'm not going to sit up here and boo-hoo about going. No, because at the end of the day, I will still be able to do the things necessary to take care of my family.

"That's what the CTC means, whoever cuts that check, that's who I have to play for."

sike
12-27-2003, 01:02 PM
we know what he is.....hoping for maturity is a waste of time Rex....
we know what he is and I'd take him if we could move Walker....

V
12-28-2003, 12:07 PM
From New York Times

Although a tad tainted by his criminal conduct and ridiculous rhetoric, bidding for Rasheed Weed's services has sharply escalated within the last week. Resolved to rid themselves of the rising free agent, the Blazers gave permission to agent Bill Strickland to elicit trade propositions from teams his client would consider re-signing with come summer.

So far, all three Texas teams and the Hawks - maybe even the Pistons - are involved in the auction.

Rasheed's preference is the Rockets, I'm informed; the obvious appeal being Yao Ming and Steve Francis, which is why they refuse to include either one in trade talk. Meaning, Houston may have to wait until the offseason to pursue Rasheed.

Unlike the Mavericks, underlines a Strickland trustee, who might be inclined to give up Antawn Jamison and Eduardo Najera (but would rather include Tariq Abdul-Wahad), depending on the health of the Lakers' feared foursome and Mark Cuban's mood following a two-game skid.

Long before the Spurs' manufactured their 12-game victory march, they offered Rasho Nesterovic, Malik Rose and Ron Mercer for Rasheed, the same source maintains.

As for the Hawks, they're eager to move Theo Ratliff and Alan Henderson for Rasheed. The Blazers, I'm told, countered with a request for Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Stephen Jackson. Though an Atlanta official denies it, I hear the Hawks are head-hunting for a special someone to succeed coach Terry Stotts.

MightyToine
12-28-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by: sike
we know what he is.....hoping for maturity is a waste of time Rex....
we know what he is and I'd take him if we could move Walker....



Greaaaaaatt......Remove someone who is a great community guy and replace him with the King of all HeadCases. Smart Move, man. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Evilmav2
12-28-2003, 05:22 PM
NO HIT OUT ON THIS DON

By PETER VECSEY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

December 28, 2003 -- IN view of Scott Layden's still-smoldering dismissal, why would any clear thinker vaguely concerned with credibility hypothesize that Don Chaney is in immediate danger of being fired?
Or nominate Isiah Thomas-Danny Ainge as the most intriguing race in the Eastern Conference, you know, who can get to the sidelines faster?

Are contract hits really that difficult to grasp?

If James Dolan felt the Knicks coach deserved to go, guess what, he'd be long gone. Instead, the team's bleakness and repeated restocking of parallel players was pinned squarely on Layden, the president/GM - originally hired by Dave Checketts as a glorified scout/trade messenger, and promoted by default when the Garden president exited without parting gifts and there was no one else around to appoint.

Let's slowly review while the above paragraph hopefully seeps in:

Regardless of real or imagined incompetence on all fronts, Dolan - guided by his second-in-command, Steve Mills - found Layden guilty of providing mismatched talent in triplicate; it also was determined Chaney merited fresh faces and a new clock.

A new freakin' clock, not a lousy little three-game road trip to Memphis, Miami and Orlando! Or a couple flimsy weeks! Or even a measly month or two!



It doesn't get any more opaque to propose that Chaney was only given an abbreviated reprieve to align Jupiter with Mars. Or that Thomas was only going to need a jiffy to appraise Chaney's worth or worthlessness.

Again, if Dolan were going to withdraw his effusive support of Chaney, he would have sprung the trap door Dec. 22, the same day Layden's plug was pulled.

The muddled media can harp all it wants on Chaney's imminent deportation, but barring his coaching Latrell Sprewell's crudeness by cell phone, it ain't happenin' soon.

By the way, Layden's firing caught him completely by surprise, according to a confidant, who said: "Scott's convinced Mills orchestrated the hiring of a marquee name to save his own job. He has nothing but good things to say about Dolan, but feels Mills betrayed him."

* Despite Orlando's mini-resurgence after getting ransacked 19 straight, GM John Gabriel, who helped Pat Williams get the franchise off the ground 15 years ago, may be joining Doc Rivers in exile. An embedded security risk reveals COO John Weisbrod is quietly searching for a replacement in perfect synchronization with Gabriel dealing and continuing to wheel.

According to numerous suitors, Tracy McGrady is the only untouchable member of the Magic. For the time being, anyway. Should McGrady decide not to sign an extension after the season, owner Rich DeVos almost certainly would be compelled to entertain trade offers. You can't do worse than overseeing Shaq's Laker free-agent getaway without compensation, but allowing McGrady to split in the summer of '05 would finish a strong second.

>>>>* Although a tad tainted by his criminal conduct and ridiculous rhetoric, bidding for Rasheed Weed's services has sharply escalated within the last week. Resolved to rid themselves of the rising free agent, the Blazers gave permission to agent Bill Strickland to elicit trade propositions from teams his client would consider re-signing with come summer.

So far, all three Texas teams and the Hawks - maybe even the Pistons - are involved in the auction.

Rasheed's preference is the Rockets, I'm informed; the obvious appeal being Yao Ming and Steve Francis, which is why they refuse to include either one in trade talk. Meaning, Houston may have to wait until the offseason to pursue Rasheed.

Unlike the Mavericks, underlines a Strickland trustee, who might be inclined to give up Antawn Jamison and Eduardo Najera (but would rather include Tariq Abdul-Wahad), depending on the health of the Lakers' feared foursome and Mark Cuban's mood following a two-game skid.

Long before the Spurs' manufactured their 12-game victory march, they offered Rasho Nesterovic, Malik Rose and Ron Mercer for Rasheed, the same source maintains.

As for the Hawks, they're eager to move Theo Ratliff and Alan Henderson for Rasheed. The Blazers, I'm told, countered with a request for Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Stephen Jackson. Though an Atlanta official denies it, I hear the Hawks are head-hunting for a special someone to succeed coach Terry Stotts. <<<<

Orlando's awful start should come as no surprise, reports column-conscience John Milich. "Shawn Kemp was a father figure to many of the guys."

sike
12-28-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: sike
we know what he is.....hoping for maturity is a waste of time Rex....
we know what he is and I'd take him if we could move Walker....



Greaaaaaatt......Remove someone who is a great community guy and replace him with the King of all HeadCases. Smart Move, man. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

I detect at least a note of sarcasm here......but good thing for me that I am really concerned with the opinion of a blind Walker homer.....

V
12-28-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: sike
we know what he is.....hoping for maturity is a waste of time Rex....
we know what he is and I'd take him if we could move Walker....



Greaaaaaatt......Remove someone who is a great community guy and replace him with the King of all HeadCases. Smart Move, man. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Poor argument M'Toine. It is a fact that Wallace is one of the top community / charity guys in the league.

If you want to throw rocks try noting how much he stinks at public relations or his incompetent handling of the media.

EricaLubarsky
12-28-2003, 11:22 PM
Ok M'toine might be one of the worst Toine Homers here, but V is one of the worst 'Sheed Homers on this website.

Sheed is a terrible person- and suddenly he is
It is a fact that Wallace is one of the top community / charity guys in the league.

Remember when he beaned Boumtje-Boumtje? Those many games where he was out of control? He is a cancer.

V
12-29-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Ok M'toine might be one of the worst Toine Homers here, but V is one of the worst 'Sheed Homers on this website.

Sheed is a terrible person- and suddenly he is
It is a fact that Wallace is one of the top community / charity guys in the league.

Remember when he beaned Boumtje-Boumtje? Those many games where he was out of control? He is a cancer.

First - I'm not a ''Sheed homer. If you think that is the case then you're not reading my posts. I do feel like I have to defend him at times because many of you seem to base your opinions of on nothing more than selective fourth hand information.... Now before you rip me on that comment let me say that I DO NOT have any more information about Rasheed Wallace available to me than any average basketball fan. But at least I read what's available to me... and I don't blindly agree with effin Charles Barkley & Bill Walton without doing a little research on my own....

Let that sink in before you read on... you are listening to Charles Barkley & Bill Walton when you say Wallace is a cancer.

Or perhaps you have read a little about him... maybe an article in the Oregonian or two... maybe you've read some commentary by Jason Quick? Well I advise you to check the history of the relationship between Wallace & Quick before you're so quick to listen to his perspective.

Second - What the hell does beaning Boom Boom with a basketball have to do with Wallace's charity work? Read my post. It's a fact documented in half a dozen reputable newspapers / website (including, I think, in an article from ESPN that I posted above.)

Third - What the hell are you talking about when you say "remember those many games where he was out of control?" Are you talking about him leading the league in technical fouls a couple of years ago? If that's what you mean... then yes. I remember the 1999 - 2000 season when Wallace led the league in techs. What's your point?

Fourth - I AM NOT OF THE OPINION THAT THE MAVS SHOULD TRADE ANYONE FOR RASHEED WALLACE!! My point is that you would do well to keep an open mind... because Wallace may be coming to Dallas whether you like it or not!!

Fifth - If you don't want to hear news about Wallace... or the potentiallity that he's coming to Dallas... then please don't read this thread. It's called Rasheed Wallace. We talk about 'Sheed game, his comments, his antics, his contract, whatever... we will not turn this into another one of your personal affronts to the author of this thread. If you don't like this thread please rate me as a bad poster. I'm sure you know how to do that.

I bet you couldn't pour water out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel. I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

DISCLAIMER: THE INSULT ABOVE IS INTENDED AS A JOKE. When you see a post by V, you will note that you are likely reading one of my controversial opinions. These opinions are strictly my own and are not meant to inflame or insult but merely to inspire spirited debate. My opinions are not those of either the good folks at Dallas-Mavs.com nor of the Dallas Mavericks.

V
12-29-2003, 01:16 PM
Advice from Rasheed Wallace helps West Catholic swingman get back on track

By TED SILARY
silaryt@phillynews.com

It's doubtful Rasheed Wallace will ever replace Dear Abby as a source for sound advice.

Contrary to what his endless technical fouls and outrageous statements might suggest, though, the bad-boy Portland Trailblazer from Philly and Simon Gratz High does have a clue about proper behavior, and he's not afraid to ream out those who deserve it.

Don't believe that? Check with Hakeem Townsend.

Townsend, a 6-3, 185-pound senior, is a swingman for West Catholic High's basketball team. He is also Wallace's first cousin.

Last winter, when Townsend missed the entire season due to academic ineligibility, 'Sheed was among the steamed.

"He said he was pretty disappointed in me, that there was no excuse for letting something like that happen," Townsend said. "He said that's how it goes: If you don't do your classwork, you don't get to play basketball.

"I'm usually a good student [he has scored 980 on the SAT]. I just got lazy for a while. I didn't do what I was supposed to. I was mad at myself and my mom [Jacqueline] was mad at me, too. She stayed on me. Had me on punishment. I couldn't leave the house for a while."

-------

In Wallace, Townsend has a friend as well as a cousin. The two talk pretty much every other week and Wallace has been generous in the gift-giving department.

"He's given me a lot of video games, jerseys, that kind of stuff," said Townsend, who lives near 55th and Master and has applied to Millersville, Cabrini and Albright. "And last summer, he had me out to Portland to spend 2 weeks with him. He showed me all around. Whenever I can, I watch his games on TV. We have a satellite dish."

LINK TO FULL STORY (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/7589423.htm)

sike
12-29-2003, 04:46 PM
I would take Sheed over Artest as proposed in kg's thread.......(though that trade is primarily to get Pollard)

jayC
12-29-2003, 10:12 PM
Maybe Wallace needs is a change of scenery Dallas might be that place. Supposed cancers vernon maxwell, nick vanexel have all had their stints here.

Wallace would instantly become dallas's best defender. And at times can dominate a game offensively.

Id trade jamison and finley for wallace and dale davis in a heart beat. With the recent play of howard and Walker Jamison and Finley become expendable. On a recent espn this past friday night Wallace sat for the majority of the fourth quarter. Against Sacramento in the 4th Jamison sat on the bench the entire time. Move Fortson to backup powerforward and he becomes more of a force on the glass.

With Davis included we would have a solid ten man rotation, and even be able to overwhelm teams on the glass. As well as play solid defense.

Nash13
12-29-2003, 11:52 PM
V, i agree with you. I feel like some people just over-exaggerate Rasheed Wallace. I also find it weird that so many people were excited at the possibility of getting Wallace back in early August. Now, nobody seems to want him.

What's the worst that could happen if Wallace were to join this team?

Murphy3
12-30-2003, 12:04 AM
I'll take wallace
....who can the mavs ship off? Walker?.. or jamison?...fin?

Nash13
12-30-2003, 12:57 AM
**cough** **cough**Walker** cought**cough**


But seriously, that's a tough question. Let's consider the facts:

Finley-the second oldest person on the team. Finley has had more good games than bad in my opinion. Since Howard is not yet ready to take Finley's spot, we'd also need to get another 2 guard. The only attractive player to trade for is an injury prone Derek Anderson.

Jamison-i didn't think he'd do well as a sixth man, but i think he is doing better than Walker could've if he were on the bench. He is leading all bench players in points per game. He's stepped it up the most in the past 8 or 9 games. If we were to trade him, we'd need a back up SF in the deal. There only attractive player to trade, and that's Ruben Patterson.

Walker-the most consistent player overall on this team. Although he's taking the most shots without averaging the most points, he's still our best player that can score easy buckets in the paint. His rebounding and assist stats are at its best.

I don't think Finley should go simply because he's no longer our most tradeable asset as opposed to early in the off-season. It basically comes down to Walker or Jamison. And here's how I see it:

If Nelson got Wallace, 5 all stars will not start. We can't afford not to start Nash, Finley, Dirk, and Wallace come playoff time(assuming Dallas makes it). Nelson will still want someone to score off the bench. I think it will come down to which of the two will make a better bench player. And it's already proven that Jamison can score off the bench. So by process of elimination, i'd have to say Walker.

Also, Walker's our most tradeable player because he's improved his stats and he has a attractive contract(much like Nick Van Exel)

uberfan
12-30-2003, 09:18 AM
It doesn't matter if you were to trade Walker or Jamison for Wallace, Dirk still ends up at the 5.

MightyToine
12-30-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by: uberfan
It doesn't matter if you were to trade Walker or Jamison for Wallace, Dirk still ends up at the 5.

Yup. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

V
12-30-2003, 03:17 PM
Neither Wallace nor Dirk play like a true center on offense but Wallace clearly has the better post up game.

Neither Wallace not Dirk play like a true center on the defensive end but Wallace clearly plays better post defense.

Guys, think about it... If Wallace comes to Dallas you will see him post up occasionally, float around the perimeter, run the pick & roll, etc. On defense you will see him guard the opposing teams best offensive 4 or 5 in man... and he will play the middle in the zone. Whether he's called a center or not is meaningless.

V
12-30-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
I'll take wallace
....who can the mavs ship off? Walker?.. or jamison?...fin?

Murph, I hate to lose any of those guys... but if one of eith Jamison, Walker, or Finley has to go I think you look to who's getting PT & who's executing on the defensive end to see who's most expendable... and there we find Jamison.

I hate to say it... Jamison is a great asset off the bench, provides offensive rebounds, instant scoring... but he's a clearly behind Walker on the depth chart & he's not playing defense.

The best case scenario has Portland releasing Wallace but from what I understand there's significant interest in him across the league. Is Dallas prepared to win a bidding war?

Nash13
12-30-2003, 04:13 PM
V, i say if he's traded to any team, it would be Dallas.

Here's why. Portland wants a small forward. And the other teams that want him such as the Spurs, Detroit, New York, and Houston don't have any enough tradeable players to get him. Whereas in Dallas, we have two tradeable assets at that position.

Cybertx
12-30-2003, 05:01 PM
I would like AJ to stay but AW can play in PF and SF so AJ will be my choice and i don't think that if we get Wallace nellie will play Dirk in 5 first you risk gettin him hurt and second Wallace it'a a better defensive player than dirk.

I think dirk and wallace will play 4 and 5 and nellie would rotate them includin walker in, after all the 3 can play 3, 4 or 5, and since we don't have a natural center nellie will rotate them.

Dallas doesn't have to go to a bidding we have the best bench player of the league a starter coming from the bench avg 15.6 P/G in 29.6 M/G think about it portland needs a 3 and that's the reason the play wallace in that pos. and we have a lot's of them we can ship AJ and TAW and najera and we still have people to fill tha pos.

So if dallas wants wallace we have one of the most tradable guys in AJ of the league.

uberfan
12-30-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by: V
Neither Wallace nor Dirk play like a true center on offense but Wallace clearly has the better post up game.

Neither Wallace not Dirk play like a true center on the defensive end but Wallace clearly plays better post defense.

Guys, think about it... If Wallace comes to Dallas you will see him post up occasionally, float around the perimeter, run the pick & roll, etc. On defense you will see him guard the opposing teams best offensive 4 or 5 in man... and he will play the middle in the zone. Whether he's called a center or not is meaningless.

I would have no problem bringing in Wallace IF we could be sure he would do what you have suggested CONSISTENTLY. It all depends on his willingness to do it, not necessarily Nellie's scheme or Mav's needs.

ddh33
12-30-2003, 05:13 PM
I'm one of the guys who would be in favor of possibly adding Rasheed Wallace. Sure, his character concerns scare me, but I honestly believe that he could be exactly what this team needs to get us to the next level. I think a change of scenery could do him good.

He is a wonderful defensive player, who can score efficiently without taking a lot of shots or dominating the ball. One of the things that I believe that goes unnoticed is how unselfish he is, and what a great passer he can be.

I know people harp on his tendency to drift to the perimeter, but all players do that as they age. It certainly doesn't mean that he has a difficult time scoring down there. I have even heard said that Rasheed was playing outside because that is what the team needed - that Portland had enough inside players, they needed someone to shoot from the perimter. I actually believe his offensive talents would compliment Dirk's. When Dirk is inside, Wallace is outside. When Dirk is outside, Wallace is inside. I would hate to think that I had to defend that.

In the end, I have no idea if Rasheed ends up a Mav, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to me. I could cheer for him and see where the team went with him before passing judgment.

Cybertx
12-30-2003, 05:32 PM
I would have no problem bringing in Wallace IF we could be sure he would do what you have suggested CONSISTENTLY. It all depends on his willingness to do it, not necessarily Nellie's scheme or Mav's needs.

He seems consistent this year, look we are not losing a lot with this trade but we win a good interior defender (we need that) of course it comes with a catch is Wallace but i think we can mold him and another he would want to show the league and portland and writers and everybody else that they were wrong. I think he will behave not because probably nobody in the locker will follow his lead but mostly to show people that they are wrong, about consistently here it's a head to head.

Rasheed Wallace Antawn Jamison
Position: F-C Position: F
Height:6-11 Weight: 230 Height: 6-9 Weight: 225
PPG 16.7 PPG 15.6
RPG 7.0 RPG 6.8
APG 2.9 APG 1.1
SPG .72 SPG .90
BPG 1.59 BPG 1.59
FG% .424 FG% .508
FT% .745 FT% .774
3P% .292 3P% .313
MPG 38.6 MPG 29.6

With this numbers it could be a straight man for man trade but dallas will probably has to trown somebody else for the amount of contract of rashed.

uberfan
12-30-2003, 05:39 PM
My comments about consistency has nothing to do with his stats but his willingness to be the interior presence we need consistently and not race Walker to the outside to see who gets there first.

mavs_afroman
12-30-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by: Nash13
V, i agree with you. I feel like some people just over-exaggerate Rasheed Wallace. I also find it weird that so many people were excited at the possibility of getting Wallace back in early August. Now, nobody seems to want him.

What's the worst that could happen if Wallace were to join this team?

Come on now.

You've heard about Rasheed. You may not think that all that makes him a cancer but you should certainly be able to understand why other people think so. The press conference, tantrums, towel throwing, and his latest dim-witted comments.

I know that everybody says he gets along with his teammates but I think its more in the same way that women will tolerate an old senile man making passes at them. They know he's crazy so they just ignore him.

Cybertx
12-30-2003, 05:50 PM
I don't think that will be a problem since he will notice that we have better outside players he will have to stay in the interior if he wants to play or at least get noticed.
Look i really think that now it's the moment to get him he will be pissed at everybody and try to show them that he still is a good player and playing interior it's where he's very good and i think he know it or at least suspect it.

I'm more worried with nelson he likes to play his centers outside.

kg_veteran
12-30-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by: uberfan
My comments about consistency has nothing to do with his stats but his willingness to be the interior presence we need consistently and not race Walker to the outside to see who gets there first.

The big problem with Wallace would be getting him to play inside defensively, not offensively.

Cybertx
12-30-2003, 06:00 PM
I'll say let's get him if he doesn't work put him in the injured list until the end of the season and say good bye.

It's good because you can try to get some of the big players in the FA with more money to get someone and second because i don't think AJ would like to keep coming from the bench for much longer with his number the guy has outscored full benchs more than 4 times by himself, how long will he stay quiet? he's a starter and a damn good one.

Let's see how wallace works.

V
12-30-2003, 07:30 PM
The best scenario for Dallas is for Portland to release Wallace... which would allow the Mavs to sign him for the exception.

Problem is Wallace still has too much value so Portland is demanding (1) talent with a good contract or (2) expiring contracts + draft pick(s)

Dallas does not have expiring contracts so if they want 'Sheed the Mavs will likely have to involve a third team. With the hiring of Isiah Thomas in NYC look for something along the lines of Jamison to Knicks; McDyess to Portland; Wallace to Dallas. (Others will need to be included as cap filler...)

Other players to watch that could help Dallas land Wallace:

> Ilgauskas
> Ratliff
> Kukoc
> Gugliotta


LINK TO FURTHER DISCUSSION (http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=14368)

Max Power
12-30-2003, 07:39 PM
I read that Portland was inquiring about McGrady for Wallace

MightyToine
12-31-2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power
I read that Portland was inquiring about McGrady for Wallace

Must've been smoking the same weed, apparently.

V
12-31-2003, 01:58 AM
From Hoopsworld

Marc Stein of ESPN is beginning his own Rasheed watch. The Blazers are beginning cursory contract discussions which is as much to start the process as it is to drive up Rasheed’s value. The Blazers really like what Rasheed brings them and do not think they find anything better in the free agent race in 2 years that is worth letting Rasheed walk. The Blazers are targeting players who have 1 more year on their contract, would fill a need on the team and would come off the books at the same time as Stoudamire’s contract allowing them to be free agent players in the 2005 offseason: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ilgauskas, Steve Nash, Gasol, Ray Allen, Kirilenko, among others are targets of Portland. Of that list, players like Nash, Allen and Kirilenko are not available and a player like Gasol would be very difficult salary wise to grab.

Look for the Blazers to concentrate with Atlanta and Cleveland on possible deals. Trading Rasheed to Cleveland would allow Cleveland to be big free agent players this offseason and would be worth a draft pick or some young talent for Cleveland to make that deal. The Hawks are really two years away from making a free agent splash and Rasheed would be a talent bet. Right now, the smart money is on Cleveland for a package centered (I’m so clever) around Ilgauskas along with a package of Dajuan Wagner, Darius Miles or a draft pick in return.

The Blazers would like to entertain serious extension discussions at around $9-10 million per season. Rasheed has made an effective transition to small forward, can play the center position in a pinch and combined with Zach Randolph, makes an extremely effective forward combination. With $8 million to Derek Anderson at the shooting guard, the 2, 3 and 4 positions for Portland would be set for a few years at $25 million. In this scenario the Blazers will look to trade Qyntel Woods for a young point guard or a center and develop Travis Outlaw as a backup forward.

Right now the Blazers would have two lottery draft picks giving them their highest draft picks since Shawn Respert. These two lottery picks could be used to move up in the draft or to pick up a young point guard like Ben Gordon or Raymond Felton from the college ranks.

uberfan
12-31-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: uberfan
My comments about consistency has nothing to do with his stats but his willingness to be the interior presence we need consistently and not race Walker to the outside to see who gets there first.

The big problem with Wallace would be getting him to play inside defensively, not offensively.

That is what I have saying as well in other post. If he does, great! He works. If he doesn't, it is a wasted trade except that his contract comes off the books next year. In that case, we pick up a couple of mid-level type centers in FA to go with Bradley, Dirk mans the 4, and Walker the 3 next year.

V
12-31-2003, 05:50 PM
Pablo (Eugene, OR): i'm a little disappointed with the way everyone jumped on Rasheed Wallace's case after he said what was on his mind. Is the NBA somehow different than the Democratic society we live in? I found absolutely nothing offensive in what he said. He didn't even criticize Stern. So there is no argument there. And it is true that there are people (other than the players) who are making far more money off the game of basketball than Rasheed Wallace. So, aside from the use of offensive language, i support Wallace all the way and have begun to question the authoritarian response of the NBA community.

David Aldridge: You can't just throw the language aside, Pablo. That's the whole point. Words have meaning and power. I think I know the point Rasheed was trying to make, but in choosing to use those vitriolic words, he submerged the argument.

Simon2
01-01-2004, 10:05 PM
If the Mavs are really looking at Rasheed, here's what they should do: Wait for him to be a free agent. The Blazers will probably want one of the Big 3 or one of the Tawns. Just keep the team and wait for him in the summer.

mavs_afroman
01-01-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by: V
Pablo (Eugene, OR): i'm a little disappointed with the way everyone jumped on Rasheed Wallace's case after he said what was on his mind. Is the NBA somehow different than the Democratic society we live in? I found absolutely nothing offensive in what he said. He didn't even criticize Stern. So there is no argument there. And it is true that there are people (other than the players) who are making far more money off the game of basketball than Rasheed Wallace. So, aside from the use of offensive language, i support Wallace all the way and have begun to question the authoritarian response of the NBA community.

David Aldridge: You can't just throw the language aside, Pablo. That's the whole point. Words have meaning and power. I think I know the point Rasheed was trying to make, but in choosing to use those vitriolic words, he submerged the argument.

Whether or not someone found it offensive, it was incredibly stupid. I mean REALLY stupid. Yes he was honest. But his honest statements show that he is as ungrateful malcontent with little understanding of democracy or business.

Cybertx
01-02-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by: Simon2
If the Mavs are really looking at Rasheed, here's what they should do: Wait for him to be a free agent. The Blazers will probably want one of the Big 3 or one of the Tawns. Just keep the team and wait for him in the summer.

Mavs doesn't havethemoney to bid for him in the FA we only can offer 5 million and probably Wallace would like more than 2 or 3 seasons in the contract and if we sign him and he doesn't work we are stuck with him and dallas needs a defensive guy this season and right now, in the summer we can try to get some of the big FA players.

But let's remember that we don't have enough money to get someone good and Nash and Walker will probably get maxed out, so that means less money for the FA bidding war.

We don't do well in the FA anyway, remember this year we didn't get anyone that we want in the FA.

If we are going to get sombody it will be trough TRADE, and it will be for one of the Twans.

V
01-04-2004, 05:37 PM
Vecsey

January 4, 2004 -- SHORTLY before Isiah Thomas replaced Scott Layden, I'm informed, the Knicks had made advances on Rasheed Wallace and the Blazers were receptive to the preliminary/primary piece, Kurt Thomas.

Filling in the salary-cap blanks with rising free agents - Charlie Ward and Mike Doleac - and one relatively inexpensive player, Mike Sweetney, perhaps ($1.8M/$2M/$2.1M) hadn't been settled.

The feeling is, it didn't figure to be an enduring impediment. Naturally, the design-in-progress froze due to New York's transformed power surge.

Within 48 hours of assuming control of the Knicks' workforce, Thomas resumed the expedition for Wallace, I'm told, except that Kurt Thomas was no longer part of the conversation.

According to sources, Keith Van Horn was substituted as the main course. When that failed to whet the Blazers' appetite (it's imperative to get someone back who can play 20-something minutes per at center unless the acquisition is All-Star caliber), Antonio McDyess' name was thrown out there without a direct offer actually being made.

There was no reason to go that far. Again, interest was nil, this time because McDyess' ailing knee seems to be deteriorating (0-2 FG and one rebound in a 16-minute losing effort Friday vs. the Bulls) not improving.

"I understand it often takes weeks, sometimes months for the pain and swollenness to subside," commiserates a Portland pulse. "I understand how long it takes for some players to regain their confidence. If [McDyess] were healthy, of course, he'd be attractive, but that's not the case. At least for now."

"Now" is the operative word. The trading deadline is Feb. 19. Plenty of good and bad can happen between now and then. In the meantime, the Blazers suddenly seem to be having reservations about dealing Wallace this season or even this summer in a sign-and-trade.

In fact, prepare to cringe. The Blazers are seriously "thinking about re-signing" Wallace; he recently made a plea to management to remain part of the team and community.

Nothing new there. In the imperfect past, Wallace often expressed a public desire to keep his wife and children situated. Management's reassessment must mean he's promising to reform, if not fully conform, and it's in the process of measuring his sincerity.

SeriousSummer
01-06-2004, 01:05 PM
Could you sweeten this deal enough:

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.8 minutes)
C Dale Davis (5.8 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.3 apg in 28.2 minutes)
Portland receives: PG Travis Best (3.1 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 13.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.1 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.4 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (17.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37.9 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (17.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +6.7 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and +4.0 apg.

Dallas trades: PG Travis Best (3.1 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 13.2 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.1 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.4 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (17.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37.9 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (17.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.2 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 2.9 apg in 31 games)
C Dale Davis (5.8 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.3 apg in 30 games)
Change in team outlook: -6.7 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and -4.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

to make it work for Portland? (by adding money or draft picks or young prospects or taking back some of Portland's younger and cheaper flops) Dallas would have to bring someone additional to help at the point (but it shouldn't be that hard to find someone who will perform as well as Best and Delk), but it would very much shore up our middle.

Male30Dan
01-06-2004, 01:49 PM
And our backup point guard duties fall directly on Daniels for the rest of the year??? Without another trade to grab a GOOD backup point guard, I say no to this... With that trade, I say yes to it!

V
01-08-2004, 03:24 PM
from Chad Ford

Will the Knicks pull off another blockbuster? As I just wrote above, the feeling on Wednesday was that Thomas was looking to make one major trade. Both scenarios (Portland and Cleveland) are still just rumors in my mind. But they're interesting and more plausible than they first appeared on paper.

Upon taking over the Knicks, Thomas set out to get two marquee players -- Marbury and Wallace. Thomas used up most of his trade bait to get Marbury, leading many to believe that Wallace was unattainable. Given the latest talk, that may be misguided. While Blazers GM John Nash has been adamant in the past about not taking back long-term deals for Wallace, a trade with the Knicks may make some sense for Portland if the Knicks are willing to take back Ruben Patterson as part of the trade.

If the Knicks sent Van Horn, Williams, Sweetney, Michael Doleac and Dikembe Mutombo to Portland for Wallace and Patterson, the Blazers' cap number would rise from a projected $42 million next year to around $55 million. That's a pretty big increase to swallow, but if they can last one more year while they wait for Dale Davis and Damon Stoudamire to come off the books, the number gets much more palatable.

Right now the Blazers have only $18.3 million in committed salaries for the 2005-06 season. That number would go to $27.6, still far enough under the cap to make a big free-agent signing and re-sign Zach Randolph. In 2006-07, their number would actually go down from a projected $18.5 million to $11.5 million because Van Horn comes off the books before Patterson.

The bottom line for the Blazers is that, at $42 million, they won't have enough cash to get a marquee free agent to replace Wallace anyway. Why not take on a good small forward (whose talents are better suited to the West Coast style anyway) and a bright young point guard, clean up the image of the team by dumping Wallace and Patterson without sacrificing wins (Van Horn, Williams, Sweetney and Mutombo should at least be able to duplicate the wins Wallace and Patterson are giving the team), and still have enough cap room in 2005 to start reloading the team?

For the Knicks, the addition of Wallace, a superstar talent with a NDBL head, would be another major coup. Thomas believes he can get through to Wallace, and combined with Marbury, Houston and Kurt Thomas, the Knicks would have enough talent to compete with any team in the East.

The other scenario with Cleveland (Van Horn, Williams and Sweetney for Ilgauskas and Miles) makes plenty of sense for the Cavs, though you wonder if Thomas would just be better off swapping Williams and Othella Harrington for Miles (sources claim the Thomas turned that deal down on Tuesday). Ilgauskas, paired with Mutombo, would give the Knicks their best low-post scoring option since Patrick Ewing. Concerns about Ilgauskas' feet, poor defense and lumbering approach are issues. But the ability to platoon Ilgauskas, Mutombo and Thomas should give Don Chaney one of the better front lines in the league. Thomas has also been a fan of Miles for a while. He gives them that long, athletic presence at forward that Thomas has been craving.

Why would the Cavs do it? They're into surrounding LeBron James with the "right" players and this trade makes some sense. Van Horn's ability to play multiple positions and to stretch the defense are an asset, as is his unselfish style of play. He has just one year more on his contract than Ilgauskas, and given the Cavs' current cap projections, shouldn't hinder what they're trying to do.

Williams would immediately be the best full-time point guard on the team's roster, and Sweetney gives the Cavs more muscle in the paint. Cap wise, the Cavs would actually shave about $2 million off the cap for this season. Next year, the presence of Van Horn, Sweetney and Williams would add around $3 million to the cap assuming the team lets Miles go without compensation. In 2005-06, the Cavs would still be looking at roughly $10 million in cap room, even with Van Horn on board. The deal doesn't quite work as well as the Portland one, but it's still in the realm of possibility.

V
01-08-2004, 03:26 PM
Jon from Philly: What are the chances of seeing rasheed wallace in a 76ers uniform?

Marc Stein: Only two chances: Sixers send AI to Portland now -- and that's assuming Portland would be willing to take on Mr. Answer -- or Sheed plays out the season in Portland and then snubs the Nuggets and signs with Philly for the mid-level exception in the summer. Which would be a pay cut of more than $12 million. Sheed wants to go home, but it ain't gonna be easy.

V
01-09-2004, 09:16 PM
Sheed is being held out of the lineup tonight. Word is "sprained ankle"

V
01-10-2004, 12:12 PM
January 10, 2004 -- Don Chaney was allowed to run another practice while Isiah Thomas stayed holed up in his office yesterday at the Knicks' Westchester campus. The Stephon Marbury blockbuster has not yet proved the answer, and Thomas was trying to figure out which button to press to get his club out of its ongoing mess.

The Knicks' new boss was attempting to make Rasheed Wallace a Knick, but talks with Portland broke down yesterday and the Blazers' bad-boy power forward appeared headed to Dallas as part of a package for Antawn Jamison, sources said.

After bolting the Garden following Thursday's 32-point loss to the Rockets with his eyes blazing in anger, and even getting testy with a heckler, Thomas declined to meet with reporters, apparently saving his electric smile for his appearance on David Letterman's show Tuesday.

Thomas finally emerged from his cave late yesterday afternoon. He had not spoken to Chaney since the Rocket massacre. But at 4:30 p.m., after the three-hour practice, Thomas sat down with his coach to talk things over.

The fans at the Garden on Thursday let Thomas know what they wanted with their first-ever "Fire Chaney" chants during the loss to Jeff Van Gundy. But Thomas was not ready to end the depressing Chaney Era yesterday. Chaney will coach tonight against the Bucks, but there's hardly an assurance he will last this five-game homestand.

Chaney put up a brave front. When told the "Fire Layden" chants lasted a year-and-a-half before action was taken, Chaney said: "That means I'll have a chance to finish [the season] with this team. If I have a chance to finish with this team, I think we'll be in the playoffs."

Thomas' bid for Wallace is futile since, according to a league executive familiar with the Blazers' thinking, Keith Van Horn's maximum contract needed to be part of the package to get the salaries to add up to Wallace's $17 million.



"Keith is the only player [Portland] could get and become a worse team defensively," the league executive said. "There is no deal with them. If they take Keith for his two more years, they might as well just pay Rasheed."

In addition, Blazers GM John Nash, who had the same position with the Nets when John Calipari made the call to draft Van Horn, knows too well the forward's deficiencies.

The Blazers would have been interested in Kurt Thomas, Frank Williams and Michael Doleac, but the contracts wouldn't add up.

The Knicks, who have lost four straight to drop nine games below .500, are three games out of the eighth seed. Tonight, they face No. 7 Milwaukee, a team they may have to pass to make the eighth seed. The Bucks have haunted Chaney this season, beating him twice and inspiring criticism after he benched Dikembe Mutombo in the fourth quarter of the first loss on Nov. 5 at the Garden.

If the Bucks batter the Knicks tonight, the "Fire Chaney" chants are sure to resurface.

"[The fans] pay money to see our team," Chaney said. "They can act the way they want to. They have a right too. When we don't play well, everything comes out on me. I don't react to the fans. They went after Patrick Ewing and that was unjust. Fans are fans. They're very fickle."

Chaney's newest excuse for the Knicks' woes is the "adjustment period" with a fresh floor leader in Marbury.

"Hopefully it won't take too long, but if it does, [Thomas] has to do what he has to do," Chaney said. "He has pressure on him too. My job is to win, no matter if we have new guys or hurt guys. I know that. I'm a realist. I know Isiah has a job to do. He has to make a decision on patience or no patience."

uberfan
01-10-2004, 06:46 PM
Overhead when my telephone line got crossed:

"OK. You win. I give up. Give me Wallace for Walker and change. Might as well give me Patterson and McInnis while your at it, but you have to take someone like TAW from me."

I couldn't quite make out who was talking, but I have heard that voice somewhere before....i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

MightyToine
01-10-2004, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by: uberfan
Overhead when my telephone line got crossed:

"OK. You win. I give up. Give me Wallace for Walker and change. Might as well give me Patterson and McInnis while your at it, but you have to take someone like TAW from me."

I couldn't quite make out who was talking, but I have heard that voice somewhere before....i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

LOL!

V
01-13-2004, 01:41 AM
January 13

Asked about his team's alleged pursuit of Wallace, Cuban dumped cold water on the notion.

"It's all hypothetical," Cuban said, sitting on a folding chair surrounded in the visitor's dressing room at Madison Square Garden. "They would have to make us a sweetheart bargain that we couldn't say no to."

FULL STORY (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/sports/basketball/mavs/stories/011304dnspomavsbriefs.7b67e.html)

twelli
01-13-2004, 05:00 AM
when wallace comes, the chemistry will go.

the mavs are a bunch of soft nice guys. they need a tough nice guy who can defend, not a tough bad guy who feels being exploited while making making millions of dollars

twelli
01-13-2004, 05:05 AM
if wallace comes the chemistry goes.

can't we get another nice shooter?

who cares about defense

let's have games where the mavs win 130:120

V
01-13-2004, 03:45 PM
Mark Stein

'Sheed to Big D? With talks between the Blazers and Knicks "cooling," to quote one source, the hottest rumor over the weekend had the Mavericks as the leading contender to land Rasheed Wallace in the "Who wants to win a head case" sweepstakes. The rumors, if you believe them, have the Mavericks offering Antawn Jamison, among others, in return for 'Sheed.
The problem is, Mavericks owners Mark Cuban is vehemently denying that the Mavs are doing anything or shopping anyone.

"They'd have to make us a sweetheart deal that we couldn't say no to," Cuban told the Fort Worth Star Telegram when asked about the deal with the Blazers. "No reason to change unless there's something that's a great deal."

"We haven't been shopping anybody," Cuban said. "We haven't been out searching for anything. I've said it again and again and again: It's just about us trying to turn the corner. We'd all hoped that things would click better beforehand. It's not a talent issue; it's a coming-together issue."

He's also, by the way, no longer interested in the Knicks' Kurt Thomas.

"Kurt is a great defender, but defending in the West is completely different from defending in the East," Cuban told the N.Y. Post. "We have to put it into context of what happens in the Western Conference. I'm not knocking Kurt Thomas, but we're not going to make a change just to make a change. Just swapping parts and comparable pieces doesn't help us."

Fine. Just remember that Cuban has said similar things the past few trade deadlines and offseasons only to make huge deals. Every time, Cuban's response is the same. Essentially, "They made us a sweetheart deal that we couldn't say no to." So the question you have to ask yourself is this: Is Rasheed for Jamison and spare parts a "sweetheart" deal for the Mavericks?

Probably not. Jamison has been great coming off the bench in Dallas. No telling how 'Sheed would respond to that. Considering the Mavs' chemistry problems this season, why add another, even more volatile element into the mix. Wallace isn't the tough, blue collar defender and rebounder the Mavs need. Why take the risk?

So if the Knicks aren't getting Sheed and the Mavs aren't going to pull the trigger, who is?

Ummmm ... that's a tough one. Unless Blazers GM John Nash has altered his criteria for trading 'Sheed (young all-star or expiring contracts and prospects), it's tough to see how he's going to pull off a deal. The Hawks, as we noted above, may be the best bet, but given how much the team is in flux, don't bet on it.

Despite all that, Nash claims it's "likely" he'll make a move before the Feb. 19 trade deadline.

"We are making an effort, and we have made it known to people that we are willing to deal," Nash told the Oregonian. "But we have also made it known that we are not conducting a fire sale. I expect that as we get closer to the deadline, teams will make their best offer. It's my experience that the best and final offers are made in the final moments."

While Nash wouldn't divulge exactly who he's going to trade, it's pretty clear Wallace is the target.

"What we are doing is exploring all options involving all players," Nash said. "Usually, there is more interest in your best players, so it's logical to assume that there has been more interest in Rasheed than, say, Ruben Boumtje Boumtje.

"But because of the size of Rasheed's contract ($17 million), his is not an easy deal to make. It would probably have to involve a multiplayer deal. Look, we don't want to trade Rasheed if it's a bad trade. We don't want to trade any player if it's a bad trade. But we have not made a decision on what we intend to do in the future (with Wallace). But obviously, we are going to have to make that decision in the not too distant future."

MavsFanFinley
01-14-2004, 12:20 PM
Trailblazers: Wallace sits, rumors stir

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Wednesday, January 14, 2004

News
Portland forward Rasheed Wallace missed his third straight game on Tuesday due to a sprained ankle, while rumors escalated about a potential trade that would send him to the Mavericks. The Oregonian reports that the deal would provide Dallas forwards Antawn Jamison and Eduardo Najera, along with guard Tony Delk, in exchange for Wallace. Head coach Maurice Cheeks insisted that the injury, not trade speculation, was the reason that he did not participate in the game.

Views
Just as Jamison's value dwindled when he went from the Warriors' leading scorer to a reserve for the Mavericks, so would Wallace's. He is currently averaging 16.8 points and 6.6 rebounds, both of which are slightly down from last year's numbers. On the flip side, Jamison's value would increase as he would see more playing time in Portland. We'll keep you posted on the development of this potential deal.

Drbio
01-14-2004, 12:22 PM
I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'd rather provide Walker than Jamison.

Nash13
01-14-2004, 12:34 PM
It's my experience that the best and final offers are made in the final moments.

We will get Wallace on February 19 at 2:55.


The Oregonian reports that the deal would provide Dallas forwards Antawn Jamison and Eduardo Najera, along with guard Tony Delk, in exchange for Wallace.

I think we should at least get one of their spare center for Delk and Najera, since Wallace is averaging less rebounds than Jamison, and is nearly tied for points.

Nash13
01-14-2004, 12:38 PM
Dallas trades: Tariq Abdul-Wahad ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (16.5 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.2 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -2.1 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.8 minutes)
Portland receives: Tariq Abdul-Wahad ( ppg, rpg, apg in games)
PF Antoine Walker (16.5 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.2 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +2.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 12:47 PM
Man... Our forwards are getting better and better, but unless one of them is going to play shooting guard/Center, we are just unable to get them all in the game...

Talented forwards NOW:
Dirk
Walker
Jamison
Howard

All four of these guys deserve starting minutes - even the rookie

Talented forwards AFTER TRADE:

Dirk
Wallace
Walker
Howard

The problem with this trade is that now more than ever, we have at least THREE forwards that MUST start... Jamison is a nice guy that can ride the pine rather than start, but Wallace will NOT be so kind... Wallace would HAVE to be our PF, with Walker the SF, and Dirk at C... This would at the very least make us better defensively, but man... No chances of starting Bradley, Howard, or any other center unless one of those three gets traded!!!

Scary trade... I just dont think I would do it unless Walker was the bait rather than Jamison... I dont want three guys asking for MAX dollars at the end of this year, (Walker, Nash, and possibly Wallace)!!!

Nash13
01-14-2004, 12:55 PM
What it comes down to is who you want Dirk to guard.

SAN: Do you want Dirk guarding Duncan or Rasho?
SAC: Do you want Dirk guarding Webber or Miller?
LAL: Do you want Dirk guarding Shaq or Malone?
MIN: Do you want Dirk guarding Garnett or Johnson?

3 out of four of those answers are the centers of the opposing teams.

madape
01-14-2004, 01:04 PM
Wallace is a bad defensive forward on the worst defensive team in the league. He's not a great rebounder, either. He's a headcase. I'll pass.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Wallace is a bad defensive forward on the worst defensive team in the league. He's not a great rebounder, either. He's a headcase. I'll pass.

A bad defensive forward??? Are you kidding me??? He is a terrific defender and does a hell of a job on some of the most talented scoring bigs in the game today...

If you dont believe me, check out hoopshype: Rasheed Wallace (http://www.hoopshype.com/players/rasheed_wallace.htm)

Nash13
01-14-2004, 01:34 PM
I think his talent is equivalent to Jamison/Walker. His biggest upside is that he's taller, and we'd be closer to the threshold in the offseason.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 01:41 PM
Man I dont... I think he has better on-court skills than either of those two, (though overall, Walker and him are close)... And regardless of what a few misinformed fans, (madape), think, his defensive abilities are FAR, FAR superior to either of those two guys...

Wallace has been expected to perform at the level of the Garnetts and Duncans for years, but his head just wont let him make that jump... You will see the 31 and 12 from him on occassion, but he just never can keep it consistent... When his head is in the game though, there arent many better overall players when considering offense and defense...

kg_veteran
01-14-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Trailblazers: Wallace sits, rumors stir

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Wednesday, January 14, 2004

News
Portland forward Rasheed Wallace missed his third straight game on Tuesday due to a sprained ankle, while rumors escalated about a potential trade that would send him to the Mavericks. The Oregonian reports that the deal would provide Dallas forwards Antawn Jamison and Eduardo Najera, along with guard Tony Delk, in exchange for Wallace. Head coach Maurice Cheeks insisted that the injury, not trade speculation, was the reason that he did not participate in the game.

Views
Just as Jamison's value dwindled when he went from the Warriors' leading scorer to a reserve for the Mavericks, so would Wallace's. He is currently averaging 16.8 points and 6.6 rebounds, both of which are slightly down from last year's numbers. On the flip side, Jamison's value would increase as he would see more playing time in Portland. We'll keep you posted on the development of this potential deal.

Here's the link to the Oregonian article...

Link (http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1074085068175220.xml)

Might as well see what that probably looks like if you do the deal:

Nowitzki 28 - Bradley 20
Wallace 38 - Nowitzki 10
Walker 35 - Howard 13
Finley 35 - Howard 13
Nash 34 - Best 14

Personally, I like my Memphis three-way better...

Nash13
01-14-2004, 02:40 PM
If we trade Walker, we could get someone else since his contract is closer to Wallace's contract.

Max Power
01-14-2004, 02:44 PM
I will only accept Wallace here if we get Dale Davis too. Otherwise Wallace can go play in a minefield.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 02:56 PM
This would be pretty interesting too:


Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.5 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
PG Jeff McInnis (12.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.2 apg in 33.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +2.8 ppg, -5.4 rpg, and +1.6 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (16.8 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 38.6 minutes)
PG Jeff McInnis (12.4 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.2 apg in 33.4 minutes)
Portland receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.5 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 5.1 apg in 37 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.8 ppg, +5.4 rpg, and -1.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Nash13
01-14-2004, 03:01 PM
Not necessarily Davis, but one of their Centers. I made a trade a few posts up involving Davis.

Jamisonite
01-14-2004, 03:05 PM
We dont need to get wallace unless we trade walker. I dont really think him and walker would get along...what about u guys

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 03:23 PM
Actually they would probably be best friends... Two guys that both think they are misunderstood would probably hit it off pretty good... With their past meetings, Im more worried about Dirk and Wallace!!!

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 03:24 PM
Afterall, Wallace is probably thinking: "Man, I dont have anyone from that damn team but Walker that I might have something in common with..."

ddh33
01-14-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Afterall, Wallace is probably thinking: "Man, I dont have anyone from that damn team but Walker that I might have something in common with..."

Dan, that's pretty funny. I think you may be on to something though.

Honestly, the guys I'm more worried about hitting it off are Dirk, Nash, and Wallace. I think they'll compliment each other nicely on the court, but Dirk and Rasheed, especially, have had some wars on the court through the years. That could be interesting.

madape
01-14-2004, 03:38 PM
While teh evaluation of a player's defensive abilities is a subjective task, the numbers don't lie. Not only is Portland the worst defensive team in the league, they are the worst by a LOOONG shot. If Wallace is such a great defender, why are opponents dropping buckets on Portland like rain? Wallace isn't a strong physical presence. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't block a whole lot of shots. He's a lazy punk who probably COULD be a good defender if he gave a shit, but he doesn't.

The stat's don't lie.

Team Defense Rankings - based on opponent's field goal %:

24 Sacramento .450
25 Seattle .452
26 Dallas .453
27 Orlando .453
28 LA Clippers .455
29 Portland .470

Nash13
01-14-2004, 03:46 PM
Ape, that can't really count against him for what his team averages. Josh Howard is a pretty good defender on our team, Doug Christie is a good defender on Sacramento, Elton Brand is a pretty good defender on the Clippers.

Also, Walker has never reportedly had problems with his teammates before, so i don't see why you'd pick him out. Walker has on court problems and Wallace has off court problems.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 03:47 PM
Madape,

What you fail to realize is that there are many more players than Wallace that plays defense... I can quote probably 8-10 good websites that refer to Wallace as having GREAT defense, not to mention about 10 personal users of this website... It seems everyone but you knows that he is a quality defender... Not to mention that his strong physical presence means nothing for Portland... Do you watch their games??? Do you watch Dale Davis play Center with Randolph playing power forward... What does this mean? It means that Mr. Wallace's strong physical presence guarding the opposing teams SMALL FORWARD isnt needed... With Randolph emerging offensively, Wallace took a backseat and he is being misused... He isnt rebounding this year, (though his numbers never have been good), because he is at the SF position. Regarding the lazy punk statement... I guess I cant say anything about that, because he often is lazy with both his offense and defense unless he is playing a big game.

Basically, you are stereotyping Wallace by stats you have found and by his numbers... Because his team gives up buckets easy means HE cant play defense??? Please... Because he isnt rebounding now means he cant??? Please... Again, how many rebounds do you expect when he is the SF???

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 03:48 PM
Madape, just because Dallas sucks defensively as a team, does that mean that Josh Howard is a bad defender? Sacramento is a bad team defensively. Is Doug Christie a bad defender? You can't infer any individual's defensive prowess simply by looking at his team's defensive statistics.

cdeleon
01-14-2004, 04:16 PM
I just heard Dwain Price the NBA beat writer for the FWST say on Fox radio that he spoke to some sources in Portland and they said a trade will happen with the Mavs for Wallace. He didn't say who exactly is being traded but thought it was Jamison amongst others. He went on to guarantee that Wallace will be a Mav by the trade deadline. He said the sources are trying to keep it quiet because Portland wants the Mavs to sweeten the deal but it will happen.

madape
01-14-2004, 04:22 PM
I agree, you can't judge a single player's defensive prowress by the performance of an entire team. But isn't that what defense is all about? Making your team better?

Wallace may have the reputation of being a good defender, but his team is shaping up to be one of the worst defensive teams of all time. Sure, someone isn't pulling their weight. I don't know if it's Wallace, but I do know one thing. Portland is a team filled with guys considered to be GOOD defensive players, like Dale Davis, Bonzi Wells (for 20 games), Randolph, Stepania, etc... yet Wallace can't help Portland be anything but one of the worst defensive teams in league history.

Yet in the face of that almost undeniable FACT, people still think Wallace can come to THIS team... a team filled with defensive afterthoughts like Dirk, Nash, Finley, and Jamison...and make it a better defensive team? Pardon me, but that don't make much sense.

Portland has Wallace on it, as well as loads of other guys who can "D" it up, and it still stinks. What convinces you that if he comes to Dallas, he can help us "not stink".

And just because Portand doesn't need a physical presence, doesn't mean that we don't need one either. Just because Portland has Randolph and Dale Davis manning the paint doesn't mean that we do. We DO need a physical presense. We DO need shotblocking and rebounding. If you were talking about Dale Davis, that would be one thing. But we're talking about Rasheed Wallace. What we need is strength and defense in the paint. What we don't need is another skinny small forward launching three pointers and taking plays off on the defensive end. The more you tell me what Wallace doesn't do in Portland, the more it appears to me that he doesn't do the things we would want him to do here in Dallas.

madape
01-14-2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by: cdeleon
I just heard Dwain Price the NBA beat writer for the FWST say on Fox radio that he spoke to some sources in Portland and they said a trade will happen with the Mavs for Wallace. He didn't say who exactly is being traded but thought it was Jamison amongst others. He went on to guarantee that Wallace will be a Mav by the trade deadline. He said the sources are trying to keep it quiet because Portland wants the Mavs to sweeten the deal but it will happen.

Again, something that does not make sense. Portland wants to keep the deal quiet, because they want the Mavs to sweeten the pot. Yet they have no problem telling Dwain Price, the BEAT WRITER for a Dallas area newspaper, that a trade "will happen"

Stupid is as stupid does Dwain... check into it.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 04:37 PM
Apewhatismad,

If four players arent doing their thing defensively, are you saying that the one who is will make the team better? Nope! If three guys are missing assignments, are the two that arent going to make you better? Nope! If two guys are missing assignments, are the three that arent going to make you better? Nope! If one guy is missing an assignment, are the four that arent going to make you better? Nope!

My point is, if one consistent player, or one player per trip down the court is missing an assingment or messing up somehow defensively, that is all that it takes to take TEAM defense downhill...

Regarding your statement about him not helping portland but supposedly being able to help us........ I will just say he cant do any worse than Jamison is doing!!! I love Jamison on the Mavs, and I wish there was a way he could stay... BUT, he defense is atrocious, and for you to make defensive comments about Wallace when the player likely to get traded to Portland is our WORST, (and I do mean W-O-R-S-T), defender, I think you need to rethink things!!! Regarding us needing a physical presence... Guess what, HE IS BEING TRADED AGAIN FOR JAMISON... He is taller than him, can d it up better than him, and has a better overall game. He blocks shots better than anyone we have next to Bradley!

No he is NOT going to d it up GREAT against the Shaq's of the world, but who will... He is not being brought in to be our center... If you still want center help, trade Walker for that or one of our bench players... Or just let Dirk and Bradley to continue in that role... He is simply an upgrade defensively while being as good/better offensively... You cant deny that at all... Regarding ANOTHER SKINNY SMALL FORWARD??? 6'11 is plenty tall enough and I would think they dont get much better than the QUITE GIFTED POWER FORWARD GARNETT... Wallace ALWAYS guards Duncan and Garnett, and has still found a way to be known as the defensive presence he is...

Look, if you dont like the guy, just say that... But you arent going to get anywhere with me making an argument on how he cant help us defensively... A good defensive player can help a team by at least d'ing up his man... It is really that simple!

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 04:41 PM
Madape, I really can't comment on what is at the root of Portland's defensive struggles because I haven't watched them enough. My understanding from what I've read is that they've been playing him out of position as the small forward, where he is not too hot as a defender, IMO. He's better defensively in the post, which is why I think he'd help relative to our current situation. We could play him against the other team's biggest low-post threat much as we did with Raef last year (who was also really a power forward). No, he's not a shot-blocker, but at the same time our perimeter defense would improve somewhat just by us not having to pack everybody in to help out on post defense. We wouldn't scare anybody defensively with a front-court of Sheed and Dirk, but I don't think we'd flat out suck like we do now either.

His rebounding numbers are something of a concern, but he does play on an extrtemely good rebounding team with several guys who are very, very good rebounders (Davis, Randolph, Stepania; hell, even their smaller guys like Patterson are top notch in that respect). He's a gamble, no question, but there are certainly reasons why it MIGHT be a gamble worth taking. He's better defensively than either AJ or AW. He's at the very least no worse on the boards than AJ. He's also every bit as much a low post threat on offense as either AJ or AW, and has a better perimeter shot than either. His head, and the possibility that there might be better fitting deals out there, are the only real drawbacks that I can see.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 04:55 PM
Actually grandmasterC, he IS a good shot blocker!!!

I will take a consistent 1.5 a game when I can get it!!! Especially the occassional 4 and 5 block games!

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 05:15 PM
Dan, didn't mean to imply that the guy couldn't get some blocks, but his presence is not going to intimidate penetrating guards. For his career he's blocked 1.2 shots per game in 35 mintes per. He's not a ghost, but compare that to even Big Z, who's not known for his defense but has nonethless managed 1.7 in under 30 minutes a game, and those aren't exactly jaw-dropping statistics. Sheed's principle contribution on D would be improved man-to-man defense on the opposing team's best low post offensive threat.

V
01-14-2004, 05:26 PM
Thought I should weigh in on this subject since I'm purported to be the resident Sheed lover...

I've watched Portland all season (I've seen more Blazers games than any other team outside of the Mavs)... not because I like the team; I watched to (amature-ly) scout Wallace.

Some quick thoughts on Portland's defense: Randolph is a terrible defender (and I mean Jamison-terrible) ... McKinnis is playing out of position... Stoudamire is worn down playing big minutes in long stretches. Dale Davis has been battling back spasms. Woods doesn't defend. Patterson can defend but he only plays 20 minutes. Person is not a defender... etc, etc.

The Blazers also have lots of problems with chemistry & effort. Stoudamire is playing his ass off but he's hit a dry spell. Randolph has drawn criticism because his hole is blacker than Jamison's. I've NEVER seen him pass the ball if there was any opportunity for him to shoot. Wallace is drifting ... dropping the ball into Randolph & letting him do his thing. Everyone is frustrated.

At times Wallace has responded - typically the result of a poor start by Randolph - to take control & light up the box score... but he has seemed resigned to the fact that management (Nash) wants Zach to be the star.

Wallace has worked on defense... and has shown a remarkable ability to defend on the perimiter... but remember he's still a 6'11" 245lb power forward trying to guard legit 6'7" SFs... so he's occasionally beaten off the dribble. Help side defense is non-existent.

Other times Wallace plays center (about 20 minutes per night) & matches up with the opposing team's best offensive four or five.

Other things to note: Wallace has a brilliant on-court basketball mind. He sets good picks... He blocks out & creates space for defensive rebounds (even if the more athletic Randolph typically gobbles them up) ... he moves the basketball ... and he plays a great team game. He steps out defensively to disrupt the pick & roll... he has quick hands ... his shot is unblockable. I notice that he does a lot of the small things that make a team successful: for example, last week sometime I was watching a game & I saw how he would anticipate defensive rotations & step out to screen the defender, resulting in an open look. And hen he gets that turnaround jumper going off the baseline he's unstoppable.

That said... and I've noted this before .... I've also seen a LOT of the "bad Sheed." Sometimes it seems like he's protesting on the court: maybe it's because he's mad at the lack of defensive effort... maybe he's frustrated to see Randolph jack up a prayer when there were better options available.... it could be that he doesn't like Cheek's playcalling.... or maybe he's just tired of loosing. I've seen Sheed refuse to roll on a pick & roll. I've seen him refuse to post up... and I've seen him let to officials take him out of the game.

But I have not seen him quit.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 05:26 PM
Well yeah, he isnt a center, but for a PF, he puts up pretty good numbers... Again, better than any Maverick not named Bradley... Jaw-dropping stats though??? Of course not, but a good shot blocker nonetheless. I also agree with his main contribution on D being improved man-to-man defense... The best thing about that is it would be ONE HELL of an improvement over what we currently have to guard the Duncans and Garnetts of the NBA!!!

madape
01-14-2004, 05:55 PM
Thanks for the report V.

Male30Dan
01-14-2004, 06:02 PM
Likewise... We posted at the same time and my post came in last so I didnt know you had posted this... Very good read!!!

I just think overall, he would help us in covering the most talented front court player on the opposing team... That is all I am saying... Not to mention his offensive contributions... I am the first to say that the guy has to keep his head together... But if he can get with a winning organization and make it deep into the playoffs, that type of thing could really help change a guy... He has already changed quite a bit ON COURT in regards to toning his technicals down...

As much as I like Jamison, Wallace is just more talented and more passionate... I must say with Jamison, I am getting tired of him getting beat or drawing a foul he felt he didnt deserve and saying NOTHING... NO facial expression WHAT SO EVER... We need a bit more passion and a little bit more arguing even, (though that whiney face of Walkers got old starting day 1).

Dirkenstien
01-14-2004, 06:17 PM
If we acquired Rasheed for Jamison then this offseason we would have a chance of clearing some major cap room considering there is a chance that both Walker and Wallace wouldnt come back. Does anyone know if this happened exactly how much room this gives us and if its fairly significant are there any great free agents that we could have a chance at signing in the offseason with this new supply of money?

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 06:27 PM
Finley will make 14.6, Dirk will make 12.6, Fortson will make 5.9, Shawn will make 4, Eddie will make 3.8, Delk 3.1, Howard .8.

If Walker opted out and we trade Tariq and Jamison for Rasheed that would leave us with roughly 45 million in payroll before even considering Nash, Marquis and Jon. I don't think that leaves us any cap room.

Nash13
01-14-2004, 06:27 PM
Dirkenstein, we'd save somewhere in the ball park of 31 million. Our roster is at 74 million. That would knock us down to 44 million. now that maybe be the salary cap next year, but we are well below the threshold.

I think Walker would actually come back for a lesser contract if he's not traded, plus we could pay Nash what he wants and get a role player or two. I think Foyle and Dale Davis are free agents this summer, so it seems like a good deal. I never thought of it that way.

EDIT-- Plus Nash, that would put us under the cap.

Dirkenstien
01-14-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Finley will make 14.6, Dirk will make 12.6, Fortson will make 5.9, Shawn will make 4, Eddie will make 3.8, Delk 3.1, Howard .8.

If Walker opted out and we trade Tariq and Jamison for Rasheed that would leave us with roughly 45 million in payroll before even considering Nash, Marquis and Jon. I don't think that leaves us any cap room.

Do you know what the cap is? and how much more will Nash be asking for compared to what he has now

Nash13
01-14-2004, 06:30 PM
the cap is probably going to be 44 million this summer, but i'll check to see anyway.


EDIT-- Realgm.com says the cap for this year is $43,840,000, and it increases every year. So it might be higher than last year.

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 06:33 PM
I'm guessing the cap will be around that amount, but I'm not an expert on it so don't quote me. I'd expect Nash to sign for somewhere in the 9-10 million range based on salaries around the league. Of course, we can go over the cap to sign him, so whether or not we have cap room is unimportant in that respect.

madape
01-14-2004, 06:40 PM
This team will NEVER be under the cap as long as Cuban is here.

We can sign role-players for our exceptions. We'll have both the big one and the small one next year.

Cybertx
01-14-2004, 06:41 PM

Cybertx
01-14-2004, 06:47 PM
we don't need walker and if we ship AJ we would end up under the cap which would be great to get a good center even if we don't sign wallace again we still have very good roster.
Nash , Finley ,Howard , Dirk and we could try to get Foyley or somebody else and we still have bradley , fortson , najera, daniels and delk and we could try to get a good PG too.

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 06:50 PM
Tx, you shoulda listened to Ape. Getting under the cap is a pipe dream. It ain't gonna happen. We'd have to dump AJ and Tariq for Wallace, hope that Walker opted out, and trade Finley for an expiring contract. Now, if we did that, we'd be under the cap enough to go after a marquee FA, but, we aren't going to to that (and AW probably won't do that, either).

Cybertx
01-14-2004, 06:57 PM
yeah finley contract is surreal for his age

Dirkenstien
01-14-2004, 07:49 PM
unless finley happened to be shipped out as well that is

Flip3
01-14-2004, 08:43 PM
The mavs really should look into this trade for wallace. His is a free agent after this season, so if he works out that would be great and if he doesn't then do not resign him this summer and use the money from his contract on someone like Kenyon Martin who can play some defense. What do you guys think?

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 08:45 PM
Flip, we can't use the money on someone else. We're over the cap.

Flip3
01-14-2004, 08:46 PM
Is Walker in the last year of his contract?

Flip3
01-14-2004, 08:53 PM
Since when has Cuban really cared about the CAP

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 08:53 PM
Walker could opt out (even that wouldn't be enough to get us under the cap), but I'm telling you, it's pointless. This team will not be a major player in free agency (except through sign and trade deals) any time soon.

grndmstr_c
01-14-2004, 08:55 PM
Cuban's willingness to spend isn't the issue. If you're over the cap you can only spend exceptions in free agency. We'll be over the cap, so if we traded for Sheed it wouldn't matter if we let him go at the end of the season. We'd still have the exact same amount of money to spend on free agents.

Flip3
01-14-2004, 08:57 PM
Well Damn, This season and the next and the next might just be hopeless especially if these mavs do not learn how to play basic defense.

Nash13
01-15-2004, 12:30 AM
For the record, If Dallas traded Jamison and if Walker opts out, Dallas technically would be under the cap, but not by a significant amount to sign anybody.

Some unlikely but classy is if Walker opted out and signed for less, so Dallas can sign Nash before being over the tax threshold.

MightyToine
01-15-2004, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by: Nash13
For the record, If Dallas traded Jamison and if Walker opts out, Dallas technically would be under the cap, but not by a significant amount to sign anybody.

Some unlikely but classy is if Walker opted out and signed for less, so Dallas can sign Nash before being over the tax threshold.

Walker would gain plenty of respect from many mavs fans(I hope) if he did this. I think it's a No-Brainer for him. He's on a Team that has Legitimate Title aspirations and I believe the fact that he is surrounded by Allstars like Dirk, Nash, and Fin will factor in this "classy" move.

V
01-15-2004, 12:04 PM
How about some more votes guys?

POLL: 46 replies; 45% of you think Sheed is the Answer

madape
01-15-2004, 12:12 PM
If do this trade:

Tariq Abdul-Wahad
Danny Fortson
Eduardo Najera

for

SF Rasheed Wallace

madape
01-15-2004, 12:13 PM

uberfan
01-15-2004, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by: Flip3
Since when has Cuban really cared about the CAP

Walker has a player option, but not an expiring contract.

The cap is important because it limits you on FA to only those who will sign one of the two exceptions. It does not necessarily prevent you from signing your own FAs.

Cybertx
01-15-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by: madape
If do this trade:

Tariq Abdul-Wahad
Danny Fortson
Eduardo Najera

for

SF Rasheed Wallace


Yeah and sudenly were are getting an star player for bench players what have you been drinking man.

Cybertx
01-15-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: Nash13
For the record, If Dallas traded Jamison and if Walker opts out, Dallas technically would be under the cap, but not by a significant amount to sign anybody.

Some unlikely but classy is if Walker opted out and signed for less, so Dallas can sign Nash before being over the tax threshold.

Walker would gain plenty of respect from many mavs fans(I hope) if he did this. I think it's a No-Brainer for him. He's on a Team that has Legitimate Title aspirations and I believe the fact that he is surrounded by Allstars like Dirk, Nash, and Fin will factor in this "classy" move.


Oh he will opt out but he will not sign for less he will try to get the max or close to it, think about itthis season has benn perfect for walker he has been the most consistent player of the mavs he's getting a reputation for being smarter with the ball(shooting less, passing more,etc) and everybody is watching how a SF can be a point forward, think about it if you were a coach and you need a SF what better than walker, you get a really good SF and somebody who can create not only finish.

I don't the question is if he will max or not i think all depends how we finish this season, if we end bad then probably we will be seeing a new coach and it will be his decision to kept walker if he wants walker cuban will give him a big contract if he don't cuban would let him walk.

If you were walker what would you do(remeber that he only has 2 or 3 more years in the SF pos.)?

V
01-16-2004, 09:19 AM
Talks heat up... Sweetheart deal proposed?

From Oregonian -

The trade talks involving the Trail Blazers are no longer speculation. Owner Paul Allen on Thursday acknowledged rumors that the team is considering a trade are true and current, as evidenced by his 30-minute meeting with team president Steve Patterson and general manager John Nash during the third quarter of the Blazers' 105-96 loss to the Phoenix Suns at the Rose Garden.

After the game, Allen said he is contemplating whether he should pull the trigger on a proposed trade.

"Trade. Not to trade. I don't know," Allen said before walking out of the arena.

Patterson was equally elusive, saying, "We talked about all kinds of things . . . but I'm not going to talk about it."

No member of Blazers management would confirm the proposed trade, but sources in Dallas say that the deal involves Rasheed Wallace going to the Mavericks for forward Antawn Jamison and injured guard/forward Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

If the deal were to include Abdul-Wahad, it would seem to meet Mavericks owner Mark Cuban's criterion that a trade with Portland be a "sweetheart of a deal," because Abdul-Wahad is damaged goods. The 6-foot-6 Wahad is to make $28 million in the next four seasons, but he has not played this season because of a left knee injury that caused him to miss 67 games last season.

Another rumored trade has Wallace going to the Mavericks for Jamison, Tony Delk and Eduardo Najera.

Dallas coach and general manager Don Nelson told the Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram late Thursday that he had not heard of a trade for Wallace being finalized.

MavKikiNYC
01-16-2004, 09:25 AM
I'm going to be sick if this goes through--especially if they lose Jamison for Wallace. I'd have even to think long and hard about Walker for Wallace. But I just don't know how interested I'll remain in the Mavericks if they pull in two players of Wallace and Walker's ilk.

Yuck. Yuck with an 'f'.

madape
01-16-2004, 09:25 AM
Arrggh.. That trade IS a sweetheart. I have serious doubts about Wallace's character, and how he'd effect this team's chemistry, but I think we'd be a little nuts not to accept that offer. I've come around! Pull the trigger!

MavKikiNYC
01-16-2004, 09:30 AM
Why isn't Portland interested in Walker?

madape
01-16-2004, 09:32 AM
The Blazers just released Slavko Vranes, leaving them one more space on the active roster to take back a player in trade.

Whatever trade they are looking to do, it's going to happen soon. IMO

dirno2000
01-16-2004, 09:33 AM
Maybe Dallas isn't interested in shipping off Walker. It's clear who Nellie's favorite is.

Could also be that Cuban is becomeing more luxury tax concious and wants the shorter deal since Walker will have to take a pay cut when his contract expires next year.

I don't think the Wallace deal solves our problems. By the same token, I don't see how Cuban the business man turns down an opportunity to get TAW off of his cap.

madape
01-16-2004, 09:38 AM
Sam (Dallas): Chad, Why are the rumors around the Mavs centered on Jamison? It seems to me that Walker, in the last year of his contract would be more of a commodity and Jamison fits better with Dallas' up-tempo style anyway.

Chad Ford: I disagree. With the exception of Nowitzki, I think Walker's been their best player this season and a great fit. To me Finley or Jamison are the expendable ones.

MavKikiNYC
01-16-2004, 09:40 AM
I wonder if putting Wallace around the Mavericks' necks eliminates the talk of bringing in Sabonis, given Wallace's history of (racially motivated?) semi-violent outbursts against him.

I wonder how he'll adjust to being second or third banana to a player like Dirk. Maybe he'll just slap Steve Nash upside the head when he gets beaten off the drive. Maybe he'll strangle Don Nelson when Nellie yells at him for being out of position. OTOH, maybe he and Nash will become bong buds, or maybe he and Nellie can get drunk together, or maybe he and Dirk can go shopping for ear-nuggets together. Maybe he and Cuban can take Steve Javie or Mark Wunderlich out underneath the stands after a bad call results in Wallace's ejection and a Mavs' loss followed by total team implosion.

So many interesting possibilities.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 09:49 AM
I agree with ape. Everything points to something happening very soon. Wallace sat out of last night's game as well. If Jamison sits out tonight in Denver, you know something is up.

And honestly, although I'm opposed to bringing in Wallace, if we're going to do it we need to do it soon so that the team has as much time as possible to integrate him.

One thought on that, though. Aside from all of the 'personality' issues he will bring, how are they going to distribute shots with Wallace in town? I think he'll want to shoot even more than Jamison did.

About the biggest positive I can see with a Wallace acquisition is that you'll have a set starting lineup and a set bench.

Chicago JK
01-16-2004, 09:50 AM
http://oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1074257997122040.xml

From Portland Paper:


.....The trade talks involving the Trail Blazers are no longer speculation. Owner Paul Allen on Thursday acknowledged rumors that the team is considering a trade are true and current, as evidenced by his 30-minute meeting with team president Steve Patterson and general manager John Nash during the third quarter of the Blazers' 105-96 loss to the Phoenix Suns at the Rose Garden.

After the game, Allen said he is contemplating whether he should pull the trigger on a proposed trade.

"Trade. Not to trade. I don't know," Allen said before walking out of the arena........

dirno2000
01-16-2004, 09:50 AM
I wonder how he'll adjust to being second or third banana to a player like Dirk.

I think he'll love it. While he has the talent, Sheed's never shown any interest in being the top guy and leading a team.

Murphy3
01-16-2004, 09:52 AM
Is slapping Steve upside the head after he gets beaten off the drive a bad thing? Hey, that's one good possibility.
Kiki, I'm sure you wouldn't mind him strangling Nellie a time or two.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 09:53 AM
That's a good point, Dirno. In Portland, he always deferred to the "leadership" of Scottie Pippen.

I think he doesn't like having the pressure on him to be "the guy". And really, we don't need him to be "the guy" if he comes here. We just need him to defend and rebound to his potential and take high-percentage shots in the paint.

Of course, those are three things he doesn't really like to do with any frequency.

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 09:55 AM
Donnie said yesterday that they haven't talked to John Nash about a trade since Dec. 23...go figure...

The idea of dumping TAW's contract certainly appeals to me...but, for me, I also need to see another 5 coming to Dallas...add Dale Davis into this deal for Najera...and you're starting to get my interest.

I can't even believe that I'm considering BOTH Wallace and Walker on the Mavs...Sheeesh !

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 09:57 AM
I've PMed some people about my dislike of the idea of bringing Wallace in, but if he's coming, I might as well analyze it.

(NOTE: For the purposes of the remainder of this post, I'm assuming a deal is all but done.)

I don't think positions matter on offense. We may call Rashweed the center, or Dirk the center, but they're somewhat interchangeable in how they play. On defense, though, will we use Rashweed like we did LaFrentz last year? Will he simply guard the best post player on the opposing team?

What kind of rotation do you use? Something like this?

Wallace 38 - Bradley 10
Nowitzki 38 - Walker 10
Walker 28 - Howard 20
Finley 38 - Howard 10
Nash 32 - Best 16

MavKikiNYC
01-16-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by: dirno2000

I wonder how he'll adjust to being second or third banana to a player like Dirk.

I think he'll love it. While he has the talent, Sheed's never shown any interest in being the top guy and leading a team.

However, he has shown plenty of resentment toward The Man. I doubt he'll love it.

I can only imagine what fan reaction in Dallas might've been if Wallace had been a Maverick when he made his recent comments about the NBA "exploiting" black players.

What Dallas most needs right now, is a defensive-oriented 4/5 to take the heat off of Dirk on the defensive end of the floor. You think Wallace won't notice and resent being Dirk's defensive caddy? And if that's not the role that the Mavs' "braintrust" has in mind for Wallace, WTF is the point of this acquisition? Sabotage?

Yeah....I doubt Wallace is going to love it.

Murphy3
01-16-2004, 09:58 AM
Wallace has never been a guy that demanded alot of shots. For his career, he's at 12.9 attempts per game. This year, he's right around 15.

There's always been issues with Wallace not demanding the ball. I've always heard that he can be lazy on offense and can drift a bit on that side of the court.

Hey, I wouldn't have a problem with him coming in and taking 13-14 shots a game especially if Walker's attempts start to drop. He spends a bit too much time out beyond the arc, but he does have a nice low post game. And, he would instantly become the best defender of the new 'big 5'.

So, am I for the deal. No, not yet. Is there any way the Mavs can include Najera in this package?

Chicago JK
01-16-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by: OutletPass
Donnie said yesterday that they have talked to John Nash about a trade since Dec. 23...go figure...

The idea of dumping TAW's contract certainly appeals to me...but, for me, I also need to see another 5 coming to Dallas...add Dale Davis into this deal for Najera...and you're starting to get my interest.

I can't even believe that I'm considering BOTH Wallace and Walker on the Mavs...Sheeesh !

I have said it before...but you are going down the wrong path if you add both Rasheed and Walker to the current Mavs team. Walker has been great here but lets remember he is in his best shape of his life and is also on his best behavior this year. With both Rasheed and walker I think you are starting down the road that will lead to a big dead end.

Maybe Nellie is right for wanting to jump ship.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by: OutletPass
Donnie said yesterday that they have talked to John Nash about a trade since Dec. 23...go figure...

The idea of dumping TAW's contract certainly appeals to me...but, for me, I also need to see another 5 coming to Dallas...add Dale Davis into this deal for Najera...and you're starting to get my interest.

I can't even believe that I'm considering BOTH Wallace and Walker on the Mavs...Sheeesh !

Donnie may not have talked to him, but I bet Cuban has. Funny how these guys carefully word what they say.

I'm like you, OP. I'd prefer another 5 coming back for this deal to happen. Still, if you look at the proposed minutes I posted above, it may not matter. Rasheed, Dirk, and Walker are going to play about 38 minutes each, and Howard's going to get around 20 minutes in the frontcourt. That only leaves 10 minutes per game for a backup center. Surely Shawn can fill that role. Also, I don't think Dale Davis would make that much of a difference for us in 10 mpg or be particularly happy in that role.

uberfan
01-16-2004, 10:02 AM
Conspiracy theory here:

What if this trade goes down with both Jamison and TAW leaving.

Wallace is in final year.
Walker one more year.

If Finley gets moved or his exposed to expansion draft and is taken (which I doubt he would be taken),

Then Cuban is suddenly clearing out a lot of large, long-term contracts.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by: Chicago JK
I have said it before...but you are going down the wrong path if you add both Rasheed and Walker to the current Mavs team. Walker has been great here but lets remember he is in his best shape of his life and is also on his best behavior this year. With both Rasheed and walker I think you are starting down the road that will lead to a big dead end.

Definitely a legitimate concern with the strong personalities of Antoine and Rashweed and the passive personalities of the Big Three.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by: uberfan
Conspiracy theory here:

What if this trade goes down with both Jamison and TAW leaving.

Wallace is in final year.
Walker one more year.

If Finley gets moved or his exposed to expansion draft and is taken (which I doubt he would be taken),

Then Cuban is suddenly clearing out a lot of large, long-term contracts.

True. And if Cuban is REALLY getting a sweetheart deal, he'll figure out a way to make them include Najera for Davis like OP suggested. That would dump another long term deal Cuban never should have handed out.

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 10:06 AM
Dunno about that KG...old friend...my concern is Shawn's back and his knees...and iny injury on the frontline...I'm just trying to be REAL careful here...Shawn's had to man inuries in the last 12 months for me to be real comfortable...That's really what I meant...I don't consider Dale to be any big time thing...After all a very short limited Fortson gets minutes now.

The whole issue at the 5 just scares me...I wish that was the real direction that we were going...

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:06 AM
Scattershooting...

With Davis in the deal and Najera going back (actually, you have to include Delk too), what does the rotation look like?

Wallace 28 - Davis 20
Nowitzki 38 - Wallace 10
Walker 35 - Howard 13
Finley 35 - Howard 13
Nash 32 - Best 16

Thoughts?

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by: OutletPass
Dunno about that KG...old friend...my concern is Shawn's back and his knees...and iny injury on the frontline...I'm just trying to be REAL careful here...Shawn's had to man inuries in the last 12 months for me to be real comfortable...That's really what I meant...I don't consider Dale to be any big time thing...After all a very short limited Fortson gets minutes now.

The whole issue at the 5 just scares me...I wish that was the real direction that we were going...

I agree. If you add Davis, he's insurance if Shawn can't play any more this season, or can't play effectively. With Davis, you have a rock solid 8 man rotation (the new "Big 5" plus Davis, Howard, Best), and anything Shawn gives you is a big bonus.

V
01-16-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: Chicago JK
I have said it before...but you are going down the wrong path if you add both Rasheed and Walker to the current Mavs team. Walker has been great here but lets remember he is in his best shape of his life and is also on his best behavior this year. With both Rasheed and walker I think you are starting down the road that will lead to a big dead end.

Definitely a legitimate concern with the strong personalities of Antoine and Rashweed and the passive personalities of the Big Three.

OH SWEET CONTROVERSY!!

(Minor criticism KG... you know I love your posts but let's be careful using Vescey's Rashweed phrasiology. If that nickname gets into the wrong hands it's going to be as tiresome as referring to the Allas Mavs.)

Murphy3
01-16-2004, 10:15 AM
If the Mavs could somehow pry Davis off their hands for spare parts including Najera, I really don't see any question about whether or not the deal should be made.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:15 AM
Good point, V. If you've noticed, I very rarely use nicknames for players for that very reason. I just thought that one was particularly appropriate for the moment; I intend to retire it in the near future, whether he comes here or not.

madape
01-16-2004, 10:16 AM
Davis
Rasheed

for

Jamison
Abdul-Wahad
Fortson
Najera

Works according to realgm

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
If the Mavs could somehow pry Davis off their hands for spare parts including Najera, I really don't see any question about whether or not the deal should be made.

You're probably right.

Again, this trade helps the Mavs dump three long-term contracts plus acquire help inside; I don't know how in the world they could walk away.

In the offseason, you have the option of trying to re-sign Davis or of letting him walk and going after Tag.

As for Wallace, well, I don't think he'll walk if we get him. He won't get nearly the cash elsewhere, and we all know it's about who CTCs for him.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:19 AM
ape - Exactly. Hopefully that's the deal Allen was pondering last night.

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 10:20 AM
I did like Uberfan's "conspiracy theory" post....

I read something of interest about the expansion draft the other day...it suggested that we could pay $3 mil to have them pick a specific player...I believe I read that in an ESPN article...

I don't know if that's true...I didn't research it...just thought I'd through a little more fuel on the conspiracy file.

Just imagine...in the past 12 months, we ALREADY gotten rid of some terrible contracts....raef and esch...now imagine getting rid of TAW's and Eddie's....that's some nice movement away from some things that we all thought would really lock us up....

Murphy3
01-16-2004, 10:25 AM
Ouch, do you really think Portland would want Najera's, TAW's, Jamison's, and Fortson's contracts?
That would be a huge hit for Portland to take.

Max Power
01-16-2004, 10:26 AM
It looks like Portland will be doing a move soon. They are losing games because of how unsettled the players are. They won't be able to wait until the trading deadline to get the best deal because the team will be dead in the water by then.

If we DO acquire Wallace then next offseason maybe we can do a sign and trade - Wallace for Iverson.


Originally posted by: Chicago JK
http://oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1074257997122040.xml

From Portland Paper:


.....The trade talks involving the Trail Blazers are no longer speculation. Owner Paul Allen on Thursday acknowledged rumors that the team is considering a trade are true and current, as evidenced by his 30-minute meeting with team president Steve Patterson and general manager John Nash during the third quarter of the Blazers' 105-96 loss to the Phoenix Suns at the Rose Garden.

After the game, Allen said he is contemplating whether he should pull the trigger on a proposed trade.

"Trade. Not to trade. I don't know," Allen said before walking out of the arena........

Max Power
01-16-2004, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Ouch, do you really think Portland would want Najera's, TAW's, Jamison's, and Fortson's contracts?
That would be a huge hit for Portland to take.

For an owner that is richer than Cuban? Pocket change.

madape
01-16-2004, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power
It looks like Portland will be doing a move soon. They are losing games because of how unsettled the players are. They won't be able to wait until the trading deadline to get the best deal because the team will be dead in the water by then.

If we DO acquire Wallace then next offseason maybe we can do a sign and trade - Wallace for Iverson.

As much as I like Iverson, I can't see either team doing something like that. Iverson is the face to that franchise. I haven't heard a disgruntled peep from him since Brown left.

But having Wallace and Walker on the team certainly gives us some pretty good ammo for trades this summer. It might not be Iverson the Mavs are eyeing, but that doesn't mean they aren't looking at someone else.

Of course, if they want to go with Nash, Finley, Walker, Dirk, Rasheed, and Josh Howard for the next 5-8 years, they can do that too.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 10:34 AM
The trade ammo thing is a great point as well. Wallace will be valuable in sign-and-trade scenarios, and Walker's trade value has already been discussed.

Bring on the question marks, I guess.

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 10:39 AM
Both IVERSON and WALKER on the Mavs...oh, HELL NO !!!!

Max Power
01-16-2004, 10:42 AM
The Iverson trade was mostly a joke to see if murph's head would explode.

Mostly. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

madape
01-16-2004, 10:42 AM
Q: What do Vernon Maxwell, Nick Van Exel, Christian Laettner, and Danny Fortson have in common?

MikeB
01-16-2004, 10:45 AM
All head cases...who the Mavs acquired at some point?

Murphy3
01-16-2004, 10:51 AM
With the exception of Christian Laettner, they're all spares?

dirno2000
01-16-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
With the exception of Christian Laettner

?

madape
01-16-2004, 11:02 AM
A: They were all considered "trouble children" or "cancers" before aquired by the Mavs, and none caused any chemistry problems while they were here.

uberfan
01-16-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by: madape
A: They were all considered "trouble children" or "cancers" before aquired by the Mavs, and none caused any chemistry problems while they were here.

Although there is always as first time.

I would not have minded Laettner coming back. He would have been a good 5 on this team the previous two years.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 11:17 AM
Saw someone speculate on LMF that Stepania was included in the deal, and he can't be dealt until 1-22-04. Perhaps that's why they're delaying.

End the speculation, Mark. I'm going nuts!

V
01-16-2004, 11:34 AM
Sheesh ... Stepania airballed consecutive free throws last night... but he IS a big robot, er I mean body...

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 11:35 AM
I guess my Dale Davis idea won't really work...that would leave the B;azers with Stepania and Reben BB at the 5 and I just can't see them doing it...so leave me out...

There's just too much risk in Wallace not re-signing...somehow, Portland has to offset that risk.

There was also a post on LMF, KG, which I thought was interesting...

Rasheed Walllace for...
Tariq Abdul Wahad
Danny Fortson
Tony Delk
and part of the $1.326 mil Trade Exception Dallas holds.

The author claims that this trade also works under the CBA...though I haven't checked that.

I can't see portland doing it...but hell, I'd have to do that one...you have to do that one in a minute.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 11:38 AM
Don't want Stepania; just thought I'd mention that his name was still floating around as well.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by: OutletPass
I guess my Dale Davis idea won't really work...that would leave the B;azers with Stepania and Reben BB at the 5 and I just can't see them doing it...so leave me out...

There's just too much risk in Wallace not re-signing...somehow, Portland has to offset that risk.

I agree. No Jamison/Walker swaps unless Davis is coming back.


There was also a post on LMF, KG, which I thought was interesting...

Rasheed Walllace for...
Tariq Abdul Wahad
Danny Fortson
Tony Delk
and part of the $1.326 mil Trade Exception Dallas holds.

The author claims that this trade also works under the CBA...though I haven't checked that.

I can't see portland doing it...but hell, I'd have to do that one...you have to do that one in a minute.

Just checked it using Marquis Daniels as the substitute for the trade exception...and it does work. No way Portland does this, however. Why would they take on 4 years of Wahad and Fortson plus 2 years of Delk when they can just let Rasheed walk?

They'll take a bad New York deal before they'll take on that hideous deal.

V
01-16-2004, 11:43 AM
Seems many Blazers fans are getting cold feet ... I'm seeing plenty of posts along these lines:

"Anyone notice we can't win without Sheed? Even you Sheed haters have to admit we need him. Take my advice and stop messing with his head. Show some support and let him play hard. He will once he realizes the playoff streak is in trouble." - knightvato

"You idiots know nothing about basketball. Without Sheed Zack is nobody special. We need to let the team fully play together now we have Anderson back. With his outside shooting and ability to slash, it could turn this team around. I don't want to lose Sheed just to get rid of him. Jamison is like a leaner version of Randolph. I don't think they will compliment each other. Resign Wallace!" - freddyharb

"It's obvious that the Blazers can't compete without Rasheed Wallace playing. Zach Randolph isn't "Zach" with Wallace on the injured list. I still have faith that this team can turn it around. A few things have to happen first.1. Stop the trade rumours - nothing is going to happen yet.2. Get Sheed back3. Get the team playiing together notably with Derek Anderson back in the line-up. I think this will improve the team's perfomance with a solid inside Threat with Sheed and Zack, and the outside shooting and slashing ability of Derek Anderson." - PaulieWals

"This has been my team for my entire life and there's no way I could turn my back now!!! We've made the playoffs 21 years in a row!!! Lets find a way to keep that streak alive. Look, I know that crowd attandance is directly tied into winning, BUT we need to pack that damn Rose Garden and show these guys that this city, this state is behind them still- especially Mo Cheeks! Rasheed also- he has been a Blazer through and through now for a while- sure he's had his screw-ups, but front office needs to give him his extention and Mo needs to let him play 4 more often. We still have some of the best talent around, so please everyone stop doggin' these guys and lets rally and make the playoffs- we can maybe shut this national media up and keep our Rip City pride alive! GET IT TOGETHER FANS!" - jnics

"Bring Back Rasheed!! We suck a#$ without him. He mat be a punk sometimes, but I think the answer for this team involves keeping Sheed and Zach, and bringing in a consistent star type point gaurd. Not getting rid of Sheed just to get rid of Sheed. A good pg could open the floor up creating room for Zach and Sheed. We need someone who can get 7+ assists a night and 15+ plus points...." - Setha12

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 11:45 AM
OP, one more thought on Davis: The Blazers know he's walking. Maybe they want to get something in return. Then again, they might rather have him walk than receive the package we're talking about...

uberfan
01-16-2004, 11:48 AM
Second Conspiracy Theory:

Portland is floating these rumors to either get someone else off the bubble (Denver?)

OR

They really want to resign Wallace to an extension after realizing there won't be anyone better for them in FA after 2005, and they have an offer of say $8 million per on the table and they want to scare him into taking for fear he goes to Mavs and won't be able come back to Portland next year for $10 million per (Portalnd would not have cap room next year). Some seem to think Wallace would really prefer to stay in Portland.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 11:49 AM
Interesting theory, there, uber. That might have some merit, especially if you believe that the Portland writers are making all this crap up.

cdeleon
01-16-2004, 11:55 AM
Doesn't Davis have a player option for next season? I'm not exactly sure but I remember reading somewhere that he is not a free agent after this season. What about doing the trade for Wallace and then trading Walker for a big man. Let's say Big Z, Ratliffe and Terry, or A. Davis. What do you guys think?

madape
01-16-2004, 12:00 PM
Coaches, players: Do it now

Nash is talking daily with teams about potential trades.
"We are better off doing nothing and not being encumbered by bad contracts or bad players," the Portland GM says. "Would I like to make a good trade? Yeah. We would have made one by now if there was anything out there."
If a trade is to be made, Blazer players and coaches would prefer it be done now rather than closer to the Feb. 19 deadline.
"I don't really want to see 'Sheed go," Damon Stoudamire says, "but if you think that is what's best for the team, you should do something before the trade deadline. Don't let it play out."
Stoudamire says the trade rumors have been distracting the last few weeks.
"A cloud is always over this team," he says.
Jeff McInnis has heard his name mentioned in trade talks, too.
"I don't read the papers, but friends tell me my name is in a lot of rumors," he says.
Zach Randolph's game has suffered while Wallace has been out with an ankle injury. On the recent four-game road trip, the young power forward shot .346 from the field and averaged 12 points and eight rebounds, far shy of his season averages.
"The whole road trip, I didn't play good," Randolph says. "Teams are focusing on me. They are running two or three guys at me every time I get the ball, and I ain't used to that. I am getting my shots, but I have to hurry or take a quick shot or a bad shot. With both me and Rasheed on the court, they have to stay out on him, too."
Randolph stops short of saying Wallace shouldn't be traded.
"Rasheed is a big-time player," Randolph says. "I like playing with him. But we aren't playing well. I don't know ... maybe it is time to do something."
Notes
The inevitable move that returns Derek Anderson to the starting lineup means either Stoudamire or McInnis goes to the bench. McInnis, the more likely suspect, says it wouldn't bother him. "Damon and I feel the same way," McInnis says. "If (Anderson) is the best guy for the position, so be it. I will just play when I get in, starter or not." ... McInnis says he is surprised that Portland, an NBA-worst 2-15 on the road, can't get the job done late in close games. "It puzzles me we can't win games or follow instructions sometimes late in games, with all the veterans we have on the floor," he says.
Nash says he spoke with the agent for Arvydas Sabonis, Herb Rudoy, when the Blazers were in Chicago last weekend, but the chances the 7-3 Lithuanian would return to Portland this season are slim. "We haven't given up on the season yet, but if we are a nonplayoff team, it is less likely he would come back," Nash says. "That would be an exercise in futility." Sabonis, 39, is playing for Zalgiris Kaunas, his club team in Lithuania.
Wallace said in an interview with the NBA's "Shootaround" show last weekend that his comments about Commissioner David Stern and the league were taken out of context. "I was not attacking David Stern," Wallace said. "It wasn't no personal feelings about ... him. When I did the interview ... it just came out. If I would have known it was going to get this heavy ... and blow up out of proportion like the majority of people did, no, I wouldn't (have said) it."

uberfan
01-16-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Ouch, do you really think Portland would want Najera's, TAW's, Jamison's, and Fortson's contracts?
That would be a huge hit for Portland to take.

If I were the Mavs and were really trying to do this deal I would not get greedy. If TAW was moved as part of the deal then that would be enough. Najera and Fortson are easily tradeable pieces, not centerpieces, in other deals in the future.

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 12:06 PM
The one thing that REALLY seems to mitigate against a trade for Rasheed is that it's so damn public....

Think about it....the big trades that we've pulled surprised almost everyone...and weren't talked about incessantly for weeks...

Just give me a 5, please.

V
01-16-2004, 12:14 PM
Portland radio 750 KXL reports that Rasheed Wallace will be traded to Dallas today and that they will notify listeners the second it happens.

tic toc... tic toc

EDIT: spelling

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by: V
Portland radio 750 KXL reports that Rasheed Wallace will be traded to Dallas today and that they would notify listeners the second it happens.

tic toc... tic toc

EDIT: spelling

Are you listening? Please keep us posted.

uberfan
01-16-2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by: OutletPass
The one thing that REALLY seems to mitigate against a trade for Rasheed is that it's so damn public....

Think about it....the big trades that we've pulled surprised almost everyone...and weren't talked about incessantly for weeks...

Just give me a 5, please.


Let's just keep what we have and find away to add someone like Tyronne Hill.

uberfan
01-16-2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by: cdeleon
Doesn't Davis have a player option for next season? I'm not exactly sure but I remember reading somewhere that he is not a free agent after this season. What about doing the trade for Wallace and then trading Walker for a big man. Let's say Big Z, Ratliffe and Terry, or A. Davis. What do you guys think?

You might have better luck if Walker went for Wallace and then Jamison to Cavs for Z.

V
01-16-2004, 12:22 PM
Yes... here you go ... it's news, weather, traffic

Portland Radio KXL 750 (http://www.kxl.com/listenlive.asp)

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 12:22 PM
The one thing that REALLY seems to mitigate against a trade for Rasheed is that it's so damn public....

True.

Still, there's a first time for everything...

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by: V
Portland radio 750 KXL reports that Rasheed Wallace will be traded to Dallas today and that they would notify listeners the second it happens.


-- And, in Dallas, for the last hour and a half, Norm hasn't said one word about the Mavs....it's the Rangers, Pete Rose and the football playoffs.

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 12:28 PM
My bad...he's going to talk about them in the next segment....about how Las Vegas betting lines are writing off their chances.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 12:30 PM
It's Bill O'Reilly on the Portland channel. I'm guessing they do periodic sports updates?

madape
01-16-2004, 12:32 PM
As exciting as trades are, I'm always am scared that my favorite players will be shipped off.
I remember how I felt when the first reports from SportsTalk came on the Wizards trade included...gulp.. Shawn Bradley. Thank goodness that was only a mistaken in rerporting.

As for this trade, who knows. I'm pretty damn sure that neither Nash or Dirk will be involved.
I will be extremely pissed if Shawn is gone.
I will be fairly upset if Finley or Walker is gone.
I would be insanely happy if Jamison stays.

Other than that, I don't care.

I'd actually be happy if Fortson or TAW was included. The rest of the team, could fall off a bridge and die if it would bring us a player of Wallace's ability. Ship off Najera. Ship off Delk. Ship off Josh Howard if you have to.

But don't touch Dirk, Nash, Bradley, Finley, or Walker.. and only trade away Jamison if you have to.

V
01-16-2004, 12:34 PM
Honestly I would be shocked if anything happens today... especially with all the drama & speculation about an iminent deal.

One thing to consider though... because the Mavs have not quashed this rumor you almost expect a letdown (among Mavs fans and players) if a deal is not done.

Of course "no deal" could have the opposite effect on the players. Maybe surviving a trade scare will galvanize this team further...

V
01-16-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
It's Bill O'Reilly on the Portland channel. I'm guessing they do periodic sports updates?

Yes, periodic unfortunately... KXL does the Blazers games.

Male30Dan
01-16-2004, 12:53 PM
I wish this guy would stop talking about how strange and troubled Michael Jackson is as opposed to sports talk!!!

V
01-16-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

The one thing that REALLY seems to mitigate against a trade for Rasheed is that it's so damn public....

True.

Still, there's a first time for everything...

Wild card predictions... Wallace goes to:

1. Chicago for Crawford, Robinson, pick and cap filler.
2. Miami for Jones, Butler
3. Milwaukee for Kukoc, Thomas, Gadzuric and pick
4. NJ for Martin, Kittles, pick.

uberfan
01-16-2004, 01:32 PM
Wild card predictions... Wallace goes to:

1. Chicago for Crawford, Robinson, pick and cap filler.
2. Miami for Jones, Butler
3. Milwaukee for Kukoc, Thomas, Gadzuric and pick
4. NJ for Martin, Kittles, pick.


If I were Portland, 3 & 4 look mighty interesting. I guess they might have a problem with Zach and Martin finding their best positions.

#3 I think gives them an expiring contract in Kukoc, and solid SF to play next to Zach, and an up and coming serviceable center, and a pick. Are the Bucks trying to clear salary this year?

Dirkenstien
01-16-2004, 01:36 PM
would yall throw in our second round pick for next year if Portland agreed to throw Davis into the deal?

OutletPass
01-16-2004, 01:40 PM
Absolutely, Dirkerstein...no question in my mind....but TAW has to go.

V
01-16-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by: uberfan


Wild card predictions... Wallace goes to:

1. Chicago for Crawford, Robinson, pick and cap filler.
2. Miami for Jones, Butler
3. Milwaukee for Kukoc, Thomas, Gadzuric and pick
4. NJ for Martin, Kittles, pick.


If I were Portland, 3 & 4 look mighty interesting. I guess they might have a problem with Zach and Martin finding their best positions.

#3 I think gives them an expiring contract in Kukoc, and solid SF to play next to Zach, and an up and coming serviceable center, and a pick. Are the Bucks trying to clear salary this year?

I haven't heard that the Bucks are trying to clear cap space but they are in playoff position. Adding Wallace to the mix could put them firmly in the hunt...

I think Martin would play SF in the West so he could play alongside Randolph...

mavs413
01-16-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
would yall throw in our second round pick for next year if Portland agreed to throw Davis into the deal?

Yes, but it would not happen.
Do we still have 2 second rounders next year?

V
01-16-2004, 02:53 PM
Wallace trade only solution for Blazers


01/16/04


P ause. Breathe deeply. And consider the possibility that maybe all of this pain was necessary.


The Trail Blazers' 16-21 start.

The sinking Rose Garden attendance.

Even Portland's lifeless 105-96 loss on Thursday, at home, to last-place Phoenix.

All of it needed in order to get change.

Here's hoping the sad combination of events is finally going to make Blazers owner Paul Allen pick up the phone and say the three simple words that can save his franchise.

Pull the trigger.

If he hasn't already, Allen needs to call his general manager John Nash and say those three words.

A trade of Rasheed Wallace to Dallas in exchange for Antawn Jamison and $7-million-a-season Tariq Abdul-Wahad. That's the latest rumor circulating outside the secret meetings at One Center Court.

Allen left the Rose Garden, acknowledging that he and a host of front-office players spent a good part of the third quarter tucked away in a back room talking trade.

"Or not to trade," said Allen.

Pull the trigger, boss.

A ghost of a crowd, around 9,000, witnessed the latest Blazers' loss. Many of those left at the end of the third quarter, so by the time Suns forward Amare Stoudemire made a fourth-quarter basket and put a finger over his lips in a "hush" motion, it really wasn't needed.

The place was already Portland Public Library North.

This is the House that 'Sheed built, of course.

The empty seats. The boos in the air. The excuses, even after giving home fans about 40 cents on their entertainment dollar.

Yes, that was Wallace, somewhere near his favorite loading dock, declining to answer a legitimate question about whether he cares if he's a Trail Blazer or Maverick by sundown today.

You can't quote a shrug, can you?

Pull the trigger.

Those are the words Allen needs to say if anyone is going to move forward. Maybe he said them in that private meeting, while his team was falling all over itself on the court. Maybe he needs to see more, but really, does anyone need more of this?

Allen needs to start acting like The Boss.

Steinbrenner, not Springsteen.

Nash says Allen has veto power over any and all trades. Speculation is that Allen has been the party that has held up some of the deals for Wallace. Today, if we're going to get anywhere fast, that needs to change.

Of course, ownership still might believe this team can pull itself out of this tailspin. And also, it could believe that a better offer for Wallace will come closer to the Feb. 19 trade deadline.

T hat's fools gold, really.

The Blazers are playing as if they all realize this roster is going to get a makeover. And, if Portland is going to make the playoffs, waiting until the eve of the deadline when the postseason ditch is too big to climb out of, probably isn't the way to do it.

Allen doesn't have that kind of time.

Pull the trigger.

Jamison would be spectacular playing alongside Zach Randolph. He's a warrior. And a character guy. If this is really the trade on the table, taking Abdul-Wahad and his cumbersome four-year, $28 million contract is probably what's causing the Blazers to think twice.

You'd have to be crazy to take on that kind of contract when you're cutting salary, right?

Sorry. Slap me. Throw me in a room with rubber walls. But pull the trigger.

Maybe all of this pain was necessary. This feels like a rock-bottom moment for the franchise. The fans who chose to stay at home or spend their money on a movie and a bucket of popcorn must have seen it coming.

There is only one way out of this mess.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 02:57 PM
I've thrown this random thought out to people via PM, but I'll throw it out here as well:

If you had proposed a fantasy trade this summer where the Mavs sent Van Exel and parts to the Blazers for Rasheed Wallace, the consensus would have been -- GREAT trade.

That's essentially what this trade does. So let's look at it in the proper frame of reference, and it removes all doubt as to what we should do.

grndmstr_c
01-16-2004, 03:04 PM
I agree KG. Can't lie, though. The more the rumors fly and the more time passes the colder my feet get. I think madape said it best earlier. I'll be really happy if AJ's still on the team after the trade deadline. Not to say that I'm against the trade. I think it probably would make us a better team. I just know that my mood will be good if it doesn't happen.

dirno2000
01-16-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I've thrown this random thought out to people via PM, but I'll throw it out here as well:

If you had proposed a fantasy trade this summer where the Mavs sent Van Exel and parts to the Blazers for Rasheed Wallace, the consensus would have been -- GREAT trade.

That's essentially what this trade does. So let's look at it in the proper frame of reference, and it removes all doubt as to what we should do.

I don't know that this is the proper reference. IMO the question would be would you rather trade Nick for Wallace or Jamison and Fortson (I guess you could throw Jiri in also). At that point it's not so clear cut.

Talent wise it's clear cut, but Rasheed really is an asshole. That doesn't bother me if he brings it on the court, however, I think it will bother a pretty good % of Mavs fans eventually. Unlike Nick, I don't see any signs of maturity as he ages.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 03:09 PM
dirno - I still think it's clear cut. Welsch is looking to be a nice young player, but there's no room for him here unless he can play backup point. From what I can tell, he's a SG/SF. Fortson's a decent backup, but he's just not gonna be used much here. So really, it's Jamison vs. Wallace. No-brainer there, IMO.

Having said that, I will agree with grandmstr. If Jamison is still here on 2.20.04, I'm not going to be unhappy. I like the guy and what he does for the team.

EricaLubarsky
01-16-2004, 03:14 PM
we traded

Nick Van Exel
Raef LaFrentz
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (IL)

for
Antawn Jamison
Antoine Walker
Danny fortson
Tony Delk

If we could trade Delk, TAW and Jamison for Wallace

we would trade

Nick Van Exel
Raef LaFrentz
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (IL)
TAW (IL)

for
Antoine Walker
Rasheed Wallace
Danny fortson

.....hmmm...its a lot of players but its definitely a talent upgrade since Eschmeyer, Jones, Rigaeau and TAW were IL fodder

dirno2000
01-16-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
dirno - I still think it's clear cut. Welsch is looking to be a nice young player, but there's no room for him here unless he can play backup point. From what I can tell, he's a SG/SF. Fortson's a decent backup, but he's just not gonna be used much here. So really, it's Jamison vs. Wallace. No-brainer there, IMO.

Having said that, I will agree with grandmstr. If Jamison is still here on 2.20.04, I'm not going to be unhappy. I like the guy and what he does for the team.


It's not clear-cut in my mind. Rasheed is clearly a better defender and a more conventional post player. He's also a walking time bomb coming to a team that's already battling chemistry issues.

So lets look at in terms of risk/reward:

Risk: This thing totally blows up and everybody hates Rasheed. Then he leaves and we get nothing.

Reward: I'm still grappling with this. Best-case scenario is that Rasheed is the final piece the championship puzzle? If you think so then it's worth the risk. If not then why bother. I’m tired of taking incremental steps because it’s having a destabilizing effect.

Right I'm leaning towards him not being the final piece. Do you think he is?

Rhylan
01-16-2004, 03:22 PM
To continue Erica's line of thinking (for fun)

If we could trade Delk, TAW and Jamison for Wallace

we would trade

Christian Laettner
Courtney Alexander
Etan Thomas
Erick Strickland
Sean Rooks
Donnell Harvey
draft rights to Pete Mickeal (out of the league)
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (out of the league)
Tim Hardaway (Retired)
Loy Vaught (Retired)
2001, 2002, 2004 First round picks (#23, #25, #21 if the season ended today)

for
Antoine Walker
Rasheed Wallace
Danny Fortson

EricaLubarsky
01-16-2004, 03:27 PM
risk: Dirno had it right but we only lose Jamison (the "only" is fairly big but Jamison was cheap) and we still get to clear TAW off the payroll

reward: Wallace has the talent to be one of the top 6 power forwards in the game. We go to McAllens and "biggie size it"
Sean "The dominator" Bradley 7'6"
Rasheed "temper tantrum" Wallace 6'11"
Dirk "the tall SF" Nowitzki 7'0"
Antoine "passing and boarding's all I do" Walker 6'9"/ Michael "Peja S." Finley 6'8"
Stevie "dimes" Nash 6'3"

V
01-16-2004, 03:44 PM
BREAKING NEWS:

Portland radio 910 reports the Blazers abruptly called off practice today... no details provided

EricaLubarsky
01-16-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by: V
BREAKING NEWS:

Portland radio 910 reports the Blazers abruptly called off practice today... no details provided

did a Blazer kill someone in a DUI car crash or is it Blazer-player garage sale time?

Cheeks could be awaiting his firing. He's starting his unemployment a day early after a miserable showing against the incredibly average Suns squad last night.

Dirkenstien
01-16-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by: V
BREAKING NEWS:

Portland radio 910 reports the Blazers abruptly called off practice today... no details provided

keep us updated V

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 03:55 PM
It's not clear-cut in my mind. Rasheed is clearly a better defender and a more conventional post player. He's also a walking time bomb coming to a team that's already battling chemistry issues.

The great thing about Mr. Time Bomb is that you get a sort of trial run with him between now and the offseason. If you're not happy with him, let him walk. Yeah, I know, you gave up Jamison, but Howard is the future at small forward, and a team based around the Big Three, Walker, Howard, and role players (which can hopefully be acquired in the offseason) is still a very good team. And that's your WORST case scenario.


So lets look at in terms of risk/reward:

Risk: This thing totally blows up and everybody hates Rasheed. Then he leaves and we get nothing.

Worst case scenario: You dump two bad contracts, move Howard into the starting small forward spot and sign a center in the offseason along the lines of Davis, Tag, etc. That's still a damn good team.


Reward: I'm still grappling with this. Best-case scenario is that Rasheed is the final piece the championship puzzle? If you think so then it's worth the risk. If not then why bother. I’m tired of taking incremental steps because it’s having a destabilizing effect.

Right I'm leaning towards him not being the final piece. Do you think he is?

I think he definitely could be, and here's why:

To win a title, you have to be able to score, rebound, and defend. The Mavericks have always been able to score, and now they are able to rebound. Removing Jamison and adding Wallace doesn't substantially change either scoring or rebounding. Where it makes a big difference is on defense.

Every time we play an "elite" team, we have to come up with schemes to deal with their elite big men. Duncan, Webber, Garnett. Wallace can cover each of those guys 1 on 1. He's not going to STOP any of them; nobody in the league does that. But Rasheed can guard them without having to resort to double and triple teams the entire game. That makes a huge difference for your defense. Now you have Rasheed playing the primary post defense, Dirk and Walker helping and swallowing up the defensive boards. That's a lot better than having Dirk or Walker playing the primary post defense and trying to figure out who to stick Jamison on so that you can keep him in the game offensively.

On offense, tell me what any elite team in the league is going to do against this:

Wallace
Dirk
Walker

Shaq can't guard any of those guys.

Duncan can't hide on any of those guys. Walker will go around him, Rasheed and Dirk will pull him outside and feed their teammates.

The same is true of Garnett.

Webber? Ha. He can't guard any of them either.


In short, I think it not only makes the team unguardable down the stretch; I think it makes them capable of getting key stops.

madape
01-16-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by: V
BREAKING NEWS:

Portland radio 910 reports the Blazers abruptly called off practice today... no details provided


Dude... it's going down right now!!!

V
01-16-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by: madape

Originally posted by: V
BREAKING NEWS:

Portland radio 910 reports the Blazers abruptly called off practice today... no details provided


Dude... it's going down right now!!!

Easy does it, Ape... official word from Cheeks is that his team needs a rest...

This is the first practice Cheeks has ever cancelled.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by: madape

Originally posted by: V
BREAKING NEWS:

Portland radio 910 reports the Blazers abruptly called off practice today... no details provided


Dude... it's going down right now!!!


My sports pants are going crazy!!!

MavKikiNYC
01-16-2004, 04:12 PM
Well thought-through, KG.

But assuming you're 100% correct with the best-case scenario for everyone of those opponents, you still have to balance that against Wallace not blowing up at any: coaches, teammates, referees in key games.

I would not be willing to assume that risk.

Dirkenstien
01-16-2004, 04:14 PM
Sheed
Dirk
Howard
Fin
Best

That would be a damn good defensive lineup

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 04:15 PM
Kiki - That's certainly a valid point. I guess I just figure that if you have a chance to get out from under two huge contracts and make the team better now and for the future, you have to take that risk.

Personally, I think Wallace will thrive in a place where the expectations are on other players to carry the team. If he doesn't, well, we just dump him.

kg_veteran
01-16-2004, 04:18 PM
All I know is that you'd have a better chance to defend in the 4th quarter with a guy on the floor who can cover bigs without needing help every time. Rasheed can definitely do that.

Cybertx
01-16-2004, 04:25 PM
something else if we ship tariq and AJ and things doesn't work we loose Wallace and walker opt out how are in salary are we going to still be over the cap. And if we don't then this trade would have been a big hit don't you think

grndmstr_c
01-16-2004, 04:28 PM
We'd still be at the cap limit, so we wouldn't have any money to throw at FA's. We'd have to ship out Fin for an expiring contract to get below it, and AW probably won't opt out this year. He's due too much.

This has been said so many times. I'm puzzled why it hasn't stuck yet. Cap space = Pipe dream.

MightyToine
01-16-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by: Cybertx
something else if we ship tariq and AJ and things doesn't work we loose Wallace and walker opt out how are in salary are we going to still be over the cap. And if we don't then this trade would have been a big hit don't you think


Good point, cyber.


(of course it's a foregone conclusion, IMO, that AW will opt out this offseason.....whether it's to sign a new deal or find a new team remains to be seen)

Blonde Bomber
01-16-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
we traded

Nick Van Exel
Raef LaFrentz
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (IL)

for
Antawn Jamison
Antoine Walker
Danny fortson
Tony Delk

If we could trade Delk, TAW and Jamison for Wallace

we would trade

Nick Van Exel
Raef LaFrentz
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschmeyer (IL)
Popeye Jones (IL)
Tony Rigadeau (IL)
TAW (IL)

for
Antoine Walker
Rasheed Wallace
Danny fortson

.....hmmm...its a lot of players but its definitely a talent upgrade since Eschmeyer, Jones, Rigaeau and TAW were IL fodder

I guess you could break it down father and say we traded Juwan Howard for Walker, Wallace and Fortson
and that would be GREAT value in return.

madape
01-16-2004, 04:34 PM
(of course it's a foregone conclusion, IMO, that AW will opt out this offseason.....whether it's to sign a new deal or find a new team remains to be seen)

What?!? I don't think there is any way in HELL he opts out. He couldn't come clost to fetching the same kind of money on the open market as he would if he waived his clause. Unless the Mavericks offer to extend his contract, he'll be earning exactly $14,625,000 next year.

V
01-16-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Kiki - That's certainly a valid point. I guess I just figure that if you have a chance to get out from under two huge contracts and make the team better now and for the future, you have to take that risk.

Personally, I think Wallace will thrive in a place where the expectations are on other players to carry the team. If he doesn't, well, we just dump him.

KG - Glad to see you're coming back around... if I remember correctly you voted for 'Sheed, then changed your mind.

That said, it seems we have some spin doctoring on both sides of this potential deal!

"Wahad is a stud if he gets healthy...he was the ONLY Kings player defending before Doug Christie Showed up.....he has hops too...well built...If we get him, we should use him....Like Danny Fortson was in GS, Wahad is buried on the bench but can contribute....he will insure Woods NEVER sees another meaningful minute of action...and I'm fine with that." - posted by BendBlazer22 on Blazers Forum

Cybertx
01-16-2004, 04:43 PM
how about loose fortson and najera for an expiring contract the 2 of them are almost 10 mill together

MightyToine
01-16-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by: madape

(of course it's a foregone conclusion, IMO, that AW will opt out this offseason.....whether it's to sign a new deal or find a new team remains to be seen)

What?!? I don't think there is any way in HELL he opts out. He couldn't come clost to fetching the same kind of money on the open market as he would if he waived his clause. Unless the Mavericks offer to extend his contract, he'll be earning exactly $14,625,000 next year.


True but if Cuban offers him a new contract that pays him a bit LESS than the amount he's making now(10-12 Mill per yr, for example) with incentives, I think he might Bite. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif