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kg_veteran
12-19-2003, 09:13 AM
Saw this on LMF and found it interesting, so I thought I'd post it for comments...

Dallas trades Antoine Walker and Tony Delk to Atlanta for Theo Ratliff and Jason Terry.

For the record, I don't think Atlanta would do it, but here's the new lineup with suggested minutes and rotation if they did:

C - Ratliff 25 - Bradley/Fortson 23
PF - Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
SF - Jamison 25 - Howard 23
SG - Finley 33 - Terry 15
PG - Nash 32 - Terry 16

Positives: We'd add a great shotblocker and would have enough big bodies to keep Nowitzki out of the pivot for extended minutes; we'd have a fantastic, albeit undersized, three guard rotation; we'd have a nice balance of offense, defense, and rebounding.

Negatives: We lose out on Walker, a multi-talented forward.

MightyToine
12-19-2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Saw this on LMF and found it interesting, so I thought I'd post it for comments...

Dallas trades Antoine Walker and Tony Delk to Atlanta for Theo Ratliff and Jason Terry.

For the record, I don't think Atlanta would do it, but here's the new lineup with suggested minutes and rotation if they did:

C - Ratliff 25 - Bradley/Fortson 23
PF - Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
SF - Jamison 25 - Howard 23
SG - Finley 33 - Terry 15
PG - Nash 32 - Terry 16

Positives: We'd add a great shotblocker and would have enough big bodies to keep Nowitzki out of the pivot for extended minutes; we'd have a fantastic, albeit undersized, three guard rotation; we'd have a nice balance of offense, defense, and rebounding.

Negatives: We lose out on Walker, a multi-talented forward.



What does Atlanta GAIN from this again?? i/expressions/rolleye.gif

kg_veteran
12-19-2003, 09:26 AM
I'd give them additional consideration if necessary to get the deal done.

zanahale
12-19-2003, 09:30 AM
Im sorry, what does LMF stand for?

kg_veteran
12-19-2003, 09:31 AM
The Lone Mavs Fan Forum.

zanahale
12-19-2003, 09:32 AM
Thank you

Chicago JK
12-19-2003, 09:40 AM
I don't think Atlanta does this, but to tell you the truth I don't really like this trade either.

Terry is a scorer on a bad team. If he was here you might be able to move him, but he deserves more than just back up minutes. He is Van Exel light. I have never been a big fan of his.

I have also never been a big fan of Ratliff. I think he has been living off his good 1.5 years with Larry Brown in Philly. He hasn't been able to distinguish himself in a weak East. He would improve our interior D and is a shot blocker, but other than that he is pretty average.

I think a trade is likely sometime, but I want it to be th right trade. Getting Ratliff for one of are Marquee players seems more like a trade for right now.

madape
12-19-2003, 10:07 AM
Terry would be a good Van Exel type scoring point guard.

Mavs Rule
12-19-2003, 10:25 AM
I love this trade! We get the center and shot blocker we need. We get a good backup for Nash. We get to finally use Jamison correctly and he can START GAMES there. Wow, what a trade this would be, if only the Hawks would do it.

Mavs Rule
12-19-2003, 10:29 AM
I must say that in all of the trades mentioned in last couple months, this trade tops them all. I am pretty sure Atlanta would want more, and I would give them a little more.

Drbio
12-19-2003, 10:34 AM
Nellie will never let his golden point-forward go.....

Mavs Rule
12-19-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Saw this on LMF and found it interesting, so I thought I'd post it for comments...

Dallas trades Antoine Walker and Tony Delk to Atlanta for Theo Ratliff and Jason Terry.

For the record, I don't think Atlanta would do it, but here's the new lineup with suggested minutes and rotation if they did:

C - Ratliff 25 - Bradley/Fortson 23
PF - Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
SF - Jamison 25 - Howard 23
SG - Finley 33 - Terry 15
PG - Nash 32 - Terry 16

Positives: We'd add a great shotblocker and would have enough big bodies to keep Nowitzki out of the pivot for extended minutes; we'd have a fantastic, albeit undersized, three guard rotation; we'd have a nice balance of offense, defense, and rebounding.

Negatives: We lose out on Walker, a multi-talented forward.


KG, I very much like the rotation you have here. It still gives Howard some good time off the bench, and Terry would be a great backup at the both guard positions. Dirk would be able to strictly play PF. This I think would do wonders for a resurgence from him. Playing center as much as he has been IMO is hurting his play this year. People would finally get a chance to see how well Jamison fits with this team with this rotation. He is an inside force and would complement the big three and Ratliff much more than Walker does.

Dirkenstien
12-19-2003, 10:44 AM
I like this trade as well and would definitely do it..it would allow Dirk to play more of the four which is his natural position and create room for either finley and Jamison or Ninley and Howard at the 2 and 3 with nash running the point and a quick backup guard in Terry.

Hopefully Cubes and Nellie will realise that something similar to this needs to be done in order to have a chance at a title this year because what we're doing right now simply is not working out

V
12-19-2003, 10:52 AM
Earlier in the season I would have liked this deal more. Unfortunately I don't think Nash, Fin, Jamison, Dirk, and Ratliff would be able to stop anyone... and Ratliff is a ZERO on the offensive side of the ball.

I may be wrong here... so please correct me... but when I've watched Ratliff this year he doesn't seem to be very active on the defensive side of the court. He just sort of slinks around in the shadows looking for a block.

If you're going to give Jamison extended minutes I think you want to look for a shutdown type defender who can stick the Garnetts, Webbers, Duncans, Millers, Jermaine O'neals, Randolphs, Nenes, Kirilenkos, etc. Maybe Ratliff can do it... but I have not seen it this year.

kg_veteran
12-19-2003, 12:49 PM
Here's another one:

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.8 apg in 37.5 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 14.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Eddie Robinson (4.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 18.7 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Jamal Crawford (16.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +13.7 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (4.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 18.7 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Jamal Crawford (16.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Chicago receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.8 apg in 24 games)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23 games)


I doubt Chicago does it, but you never know...

Chandler 30 - Bradley/Fortson 18
Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
Jamison 25 - Howard 23
Finley 33 - Crawford 15
Nash 32 - Crawford 16

I like the Dallas end of the deal...

V
12-19-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Here's another one:

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.8 apg in 37.5 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 14.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Eddie Robinson (4.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 18.7 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Jamal Crawford (16.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +13.7 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (4.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 18.7 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Jamal Crawford (16.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Chicago receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.8 apg in 24 games)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23 games)


I doubt Chicago does it, but you never know...

Chandler 30 - Bradley/Fortson 18
Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
Jamison 25 - Howard 23
Finley 33 - Crawford 15
Nash 32 - Crawford 16

I like the Dallas end of the deal...

I like the talent you're getting ... but you're giving 84 minutes (35%) to some really young cats. If Chandler & Crawford pan out... and gain good playoff experience this year & next... I think the Mavs contend in 2006.

Drbio
12-19-2003, 01:12 PM
I'd do the Chicago trade every day and twice on Sunday.

LRB
12-19-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Here's another one:

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.8 apg in 37.5 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 14.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Eddie Robinson (4.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 18.7 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Jamal Crawford (16.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +13.7 ppg, +4.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

Chicago trades: SF Eddie Robinson (4.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 18.7 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
PG Jamal Crawford (16.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Chicago receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.8 apg in 24 games)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23 games)


I doubt Chicago does it, but you never know...

Chandler 30 - Bradley/Fortson 18
Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
Jamison 25 - Howard 23
Finley 33 - Crawford 15
Nash 32 - Crawford 16

I like the Dallas end of the deal...


I'd to this trade in a heartbeat. Heck I might even chip in a couple of bucks to help Cubes pay for the scotch to get the John Paxon drunk enough to sign off on this one. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

mavs_afroman
12-19-2003, 04:07 PM
I love the Chicago trade but it will never happen. Chandler is becoming a great rebounder and good defender. Crawford has an extremely underrated outside shot and has the quickness to break the defense down like Nash somewhat. That's exactly why Chicago won't let the go.

I would do the Atlanta trade too and I think its highly probable that Atlanta would do. Ratliff and Terry were benched recently for missing practice. Also, the team in Atlanta hasn't won in a while and can't even get fancs out to the games. Anything is worth try.

Terry would give us a Nick-type backup again and Ratliff instantly improves our interior defense. I know he's not a great defender but he's a great shotblcker and is taller than 6'8". Our interior defense has been horrible this season because everyone outside of Dirk is shorter than 6'8". It was brutally apparent in the Boston and Minny games. No one was scared at all. Once the got to the goal it was an automatic two points. Ratliff will at least change a few shots and keep the other team from feeling so comfortable shooting around the basket.

Mavs Rule
12-19-2003, 05:48 PM
The Chicago trade is appealing from our perspective, but the Bulls won't pull the trigger on that one. They give up way too much youth and much of their potential. We would have longevity with that trade which would sacrifice short term results. Atlanta's trade is much more realistic IMO with them wanting to shake things up with the new owner and all. And it helps us immediately. We can always trade again after we get the title in the near term with Atlanta's deal. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

kg_veteran
12-19-2003, 05:53 PM
The thing I like about the Atlanta deal is that the Hawks might actually do it.

Jamisonite
12-19-2003, 06:01 PM
Atlanta trades: PG Jason Terry (17.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.0 apg in 36.0 minutes)
C Theo Ratliff (7.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 30.0 minutes)
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20.2 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.3 minutes)
Atlanta receives: SG Michael Finley (17.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.9 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.4 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -9.5 ppg, -6.0 rpg, and -3.9 apg.

Dallas trades: SG Michael Finley (17.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.9 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.4 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Jason Terry (17.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26 games)
C Theo Ratliff (7.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 27 games)
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20.2 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 2.6 apg in 27 games)
Change in team outlook: +9.5 ppg, +6.0 rpg, and +3.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

How about this guys?

EricaLubarsky
12-19-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Terry would be a good Van Exel type scoring point guard.

Are we really so desperate for last year's team that we would trade away our all-star forward for a weak-rebounding 30year old center and an NVE style SG who doesnt play defense?

Small ball anyone?

MavsFanFinley
12-19-2003, 07:41 PM
Nelson would end up playing this lineup most nights: Dirk/Jamison/Finley/Nash/Terry if we make the Atlanta deal. I like the trade only if Nelson would use it the properly.

The Chicago deal is a no brainer. KG, did you mean to plug in Daniels to back Finley?

MightyToine
12-19-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Nelson would end up playing this lineup most nights: Dirk/Jamison/Finley/Nash/Terry if we make the Atlanta deal. I like the trade only if Nelson would use it properly.



And that's why we SHOULDN'T do this deal OR Any deals for that matter except Travis Best for Melvin Ely.....BECAUSE NELLIE WON'T USE THE LINEUP PROPERLY!!!

Mavs Rule
12-20-2003, 10:01 AM
Check out the line of Terry and Ratliff last night against SAC (one of the best teams in the league):

PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
JASON TERRY G 45 11-21 1-3 2-5 0 9 9 5 4 1 4 1 25
THEO RATLIFF C 33 5-10 0-0 1-2 2 7 9 2 3 0 1 5 11

9 rebounds and 25 points for Terry on 11 of 21 shooting!
9 rebounds and 5 blocks for Ratliff!

You can't tell me that the Mavs couldn't use Terry as the main backup for the guard spots, and you can't tell me that we can't use Ratliffs blocks from a starting center position. This trade would be awesome! Come on Mark, give us a merry Christmas!

MightyToine
12-20-2003, 06:16 PM
Double post. i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

MightyToine
12-20-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
Check out the line of Terry and Ratliff last night against SAC (one of the best teams in the league):

PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
JASON TERRY G 45 11-21 1-3 2-5 0 9 9 5 4 1 4 1 25
THEO RATLIFF C 33 5-10 0-0 1-2 2 7 9 2 3 0 1 5 11

9 rebounds and 25 points for Terry on 11 of 21 shooting!
9 rebounds and 5 blocks for Ratliff!

You can't tell me that the Mavs couldn't use Terry as the main backup for the guard spots, and you can't tell me that we can't use Ratliffs blocks from a starting center position. This trade would be awesome! Come on Mark, give us a merry Christmas!


Mavsrule, Do you honestly believe that TERRY will get 21 shot attempts??? ON A NELLIE-COACHED TEAM????? i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif


Please... i/expressions/rolleye.gif

the only ones who should get 20+ shot attempts are Dirk/Nash/Nowitzki. Terry would take the place of Travis Best where he would come in toward the end of quarters just to rest Nash....YOU JUST WATCH!


Jason Terry is a SG in a PG-body like Billups is. And While he would make a nice Backup SG, Can he Play any DEFENSE? i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Exactly. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif



Personally, WHEN Best is dealt for Ely at the Deadline, I would like to trade for a PG; it has to be a REAL PASS-FIRST PG like Earl Watson from Memphis!!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Speedy
12-20-2003, 09:15 PM
Jason Terry doesn't play defense? The same Jason Terry whose defense was praised in every scouting report on him coming out of college? The same Jason Terry who left as Arizona's all-time leader in steals? I don't think that is to shabby given some of the gaurds who have played for Arizona. He's a pretty darn good gaurd on both ends of the court. If his game resembles any one player he's a heck of a lot closer to Gary Payton than Nick Van Exel.

V
12-21-2003, 11:59 AM
Terry may play some defense but the Hawks are one of the worst defensive teams in the league while starting Ratliff, Terry, and Stephen Jackson (who is known as a good defender himself)

Individual defense is one thing... good team defense is another.

MavKikiNYC
12-21-2003, 01:26 PM
I haven't seen this trade proposed (lately), but it works $$-wise according to Real GM.

Dallas trades Walker, Best and Daniels to New Jersey in exchange for Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles.

Jersey gets: a frontcourt scoring threat in Walker, who is probably a better offensive threat than Martin, though not not nearly as strong defensively; PG relief for Jason Kidd with Best; a versatile backcourt prospect in Daniels.

Dallas gets: a frontcourt defender/rebounder in Martin, who would complement Dirk better. Martin could match up more or less effectively agaginst pretty much any frontcourt scoring threat not named Shaq, freeing Dirk to be an offensive threat. Plus, Martin would be effective at scoring inside on offensive putbacks. Dallas gets a backcourt backup for Finley in Kittles.


Variation: If Jersey wouldn't go for this scenario, would you sweeten the pot with Howard in place of Daniels?

MightyToine
12-21-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
I haven't seen this trade proposed (lately), but it works $$-wise according to Real GM.

Dallas trades Walker, Best and Daniels to New Jersey in exchange for Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles.

Jersey gets: a frontcourt scoring threat in Walker, who is probably a better offensive threat than Martin, though not not nearly as strong defensively; PG relief for Jason Kidd with Best; a versatile backcourt prospect in Daniels.

Dallas gets: a frontcourt defender/rebounder in Martin, who would complement Dirk better. Martin could match up more or less effectively agaginst pretty much any frontcourt scoring threat not named Shaq, freeing Dirk to be an offensive threat. Plus, Martin would be effective at scoring inside on offensive putbacks. Dallas gets a backcourt backup for Finley in Kittles.


Variation: If Jersey wouldn't go for this scenario, would you sweeten the pot with Howard in place of Daniels?


lol! What better way to PISS OFF the Celtics fans than put Walker on one of their most HATED Rivals in the EAST?? i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif


Intriguing trade, actually.... i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif