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aexchange
12-22-2003, 10:06 AM
can someone help me think of a feasible trade with new jersey that would land us both kidd and/or kenyon martin without us having to part with nash or nowitzki?

Male30Dan
12-22-2003, 10:43 AM
Would you do this if NJ offered it???

Dallas trades: SG Michael Finley (17.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.9 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.9 apg in 37.5 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (2.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.1 apg in 10.1 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (7.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 20.2 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.1 apg in 14.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Jason Kidd (15.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 9.4 apg in 37.4 minutes)
SG Kerry Kittles (12.2 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.2 minutes)
PF Kenyon Martin (17.9 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 2.7 apg in 35.7 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +5.8 ppg, -1.2 rpg, and +4.3 apg.

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (15.8 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 9.4 apg in 37.4 minutes)
SG Kerry Kittles (12.2 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.2 minutes)
PF Kenyon Martin (17.9 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 2.7 apg in 35.7 minutes)
C Alonzo Mourning (8.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.9 minutes)
New Jersey receives: SG Michael Finley (17.3 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.9 apg in 21 games)
PF Antoine Walker (17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.9 apg in 26 games)
C Shawn Bradley (2.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.1 apg in 20 games)
SF Josh Howard (7.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 22 games)
PG Travis Best (3.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.1 apg in 24 games)
Change in team outlook: -5.8 ppg, +1.2 rpg, and -4.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas and New Jersey being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and New Jersey had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Simon2
12-22-2003, 10:51 AM
No. Its not about statistics or anything but I just don't like Kidd and K-Mart.

aexchange
03-09-2004, 09:35 AM
bouncing this around with KG in PMs.

would you pull a trigger on a maxed out resigned kmart + zo for walker/delk/filler? with nj looking to get a backup type PG, as well as looking to dump the albatross contract that is zo, i could feasibly see NJ doing this deal if we made it sweet enough for them. i could see walker blending in fairly well with their motion offense, and this probably is the best value they can get if kmart demands a max extension.

you plug kmart into the 5 spot. he can guard anyone not named shaq.

your starting front court looks something like this:
kmart
dirk
jamison
finley
nash

your offseason plan is to sign tag or camby with the mle. pick up a couple of glue guys/vets for the MLE. if possible look into signing foyle for the vet exception. try to sign someone along the lines of bob sura to fill the swingman positions.

your team looks something like this then:
martin/tag or camby/bradley/foyle
nowitzki/najera/fortson
jamison/howard
finley/sura/wahad
nash/daniels/steffanson

dalmations202
03-09-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by: aexchange
bouncing this around with KG in PMs.

would you pull a trigger on a maxed out resigned kmart + zo for walker/delk/filler? with nj looking to get a backup type PG, as well as looking to dump the albatross contract that is zo, i could feasibly see NJ doing this deal if we made it sweet enough for them. i could see walker blending in fairly well with their motion offense, and this probably is the best value they can get if kmart demands a max extension.

you plug kmart into the 5 spot. he can guard anyone not named shaq.

your starting front court looks something like this:
kmart
dirk
jamison
finley
nash

your offseason plan is to sign tag or camby with the mle. pick up a couple of glue guys/vets for the MLE. if possible look into signing foyle for the vet exception. try to sign someone along the lines of bob sura to fill the swingman positions.

your team looks something like this then:
martin/tag or camby/bradley/foyle
nowitzki/najera/fortson
jamison/howard
finley/sura/wahad
nash/daniels/steffanson


I like it, but would rather have one of the Barry's instead of Sura. Would that be possible?

Nash13
03-09-2004, 10:51 AM
Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (15.0 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.4 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (5.0 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 1.3 apg in 11.4 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Kerry Kittles (13.2 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
PF Kenyon Martin (17.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +10.8 ppg, +3.9 rpg, and -1.1 apg.

New Jersey trades: SG Kerry Kittles (13.2 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
PF Kenyon Martin (17.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 36.2 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Antoine Walker (15.0 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.9 apg in 62 games)
SG Marquis Daniels (5.0 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 1.3 apg in 36 games)
Change in team outlook: -10.8 ppg, -3.9 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

kg_veteran
03-09-2004, 12:19 PM
Hard to speculate on the number at this point because I don't know what a maxed-out Kenyon Martin looks like, salary-wise. That said, it *appears* that a Walker/Delk package would work for Martin/Zo, with us perhaps having to throw in one more player to get the numbers to work.

FilthyFinMavs
03-09-2004, 01:05 PM
i think when you bring a guy like Martin in you have to have a center in there with him. I can see it now. Kenyon Martin upset that teammates won't play interior D with him. Scott WIlliams could be that guy but i'm not sure how much he has left in the tank.

dalmations202
03-09-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Hard to speculate on the number at this point because I don't know what a maxed-out Kenyon Martin looks like, salary-wise. That said, it *appears* that a Walker/Delk package would work for Martin/Zo, with us perhaps having to throw in one more player to get the numbers to work.

I like Martin, but would he really be a fit in Dallas, unless he played the 5? Dirk is your 4 IMO..........or would we just have another forward that has to play out of position because now we have to fit Martin, Jamison, Howard, and Dirk all on the court at the same time.

jayC
03-11-2004, 11:09 AM
I think that New Jersey would be crazy to trade walker for K-mart. That would be insanely in our favor. You have to at least include finley or nash in the deal.

dalmations202
03-11-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by: jayC
I think that New Jersey would be crazy to trade walker for K-mart. That would be insanely in our favor. You have to at least include finley or nash in the deal.

Would only happen if they were going to let him walk on the max contract issue anyway, and wanted to see what a Year of Walker were like. NO WAY you include Nash or Fin, you are undervaluing those two. Although I think that KMart is worth more than Walker yes.

MavsFanatik33
03-25-2004, 09:15 AM
I dont want to work the stats out, someone else can but....
Dallas Trades: Scott Williams
Antoine Walker

Dallas gets: Kenyon Martin

2 for 1, how could you pass THAT up?

MightyToine
03-25-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by: MavsFanatik33
I dont want to work the stats out, someone else can but....
Dallas Trades: Scott Williams
Antoine Walker

Dallas gets: Kenyon Martin

2 for 1, how could you pass THAT up?


LMAO!! That's still essentially trading Martin for Walker Straight up since Williams has said he would retire if he's not playing with the Mavs anymore...... i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

MavsFanatik33
03-25-2004, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine
LMAO!! That's still essentially trading Martin for Walker Straight up since Williams has said he would retire if he's not playing with the Mavs anymore...... i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Fine then, Antoine Walker and Travis Best for KMart

Poindexter Einstein
03-25-2004, 10:20 PM
"a Walker/Delk package would work for Martin/Zo, with us perhaps having to throw in one more player to get the numbers to work"
" trade walker for K-mart"
"Antoine Walker and Travis Best for KMart"

Sorry guys, but the essence of the trade doesnt work. The Base Year restrictions will make KM virtually untradeable to Dallas for a year after a big raise, unless there was an extremely complex 3-way that included some team far under the cap. In essence, a simple KM-for-AW isnt remotely doable.

grndmstr_c
03-25-2004, 10:24 PM
Why? Does the size of the raise make the difference? Because it's always been my understanding that the BYC restrictions that, for example, would have made it virtually impossible to trade for JO or Artest this year, don't come in to play on sign and trade deals.

grndmstr_c
03-25-2004, 10:32 PM
Never mind. I looked it up. >20% raise kicks in the BYC according to realgm.

Poindexter Einstein
03-25-2004, 10:37 PM
The BY restrictions do apply to a sign-and-trade. The bigger the raise, the harder it is to get through the BY minefield.

aexchange
03-28-2004, 08:59 AM
it really doesn't matter then regardless of whether you factor byc considerations in.

if martin wants a maxed out contract then you trade walker and take back martin and zo. or you trade walker and take back martin, zo, and rodney rogers. i'd like to see rogers play a walt williams type role on this team. martin can play the 5 and be a perfect fit. and zo (bleeding kidneys and all) could play (if he decided to) in the playoffs for 20 min a game.

give me that any day.

Max Power
03-28-2004, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
"a Walker/Delk package would work for Martin/Zo, with us perhaps having to throw in one more player to get the numbers to work"
" trade walker for K-mart"
"Antoine Walker and Travis Best for KMart"

Sorry guys, but the essence of the trade doesnt work. The Base Year restrictions will make KM virtually untradeable to Dallas for a year after a big raise, unless there was an extremely complex 3-way that included some team far under the cap. In essence, a simple KM-for-AW isnt remotely doable.

Probably only the big trade offered at the beginning of the thread would be doable because of the Base Year restriction.

Poindexter Einstein
03-28-2004, 05:24 PM
AEEXCHANGE .... none of those trades even remotely would work, with the cap rules on BYC players

MAX ..."Probably only the big trade offered at the beginning of the thread would be doable ..." .....Nope, it wouldnt even come close to working either. A max raise combined with BYC rules would require 2 teams over the cap to swap almost a whole teams worth of players each direction - that huge trade there is only about 2/3 as big as is needed.

In essence, Walker-for-KM doesnt even come close to working, as a simple trade.

Max Power
03-28-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
AEEXCHANGE .... none of those trades even remotely would work, with the cap rules on BYC players

MAX ..."Probably only the big trade offered at the beginning of the thread would be doable ..." .....Nope, it wouldnt even come close to working either. A max raise combined with BYC rules would require 2 teams over the cap to swap almost a whole teams worth of players each direction - that huge trade there is only about 2/3 as big as is needed.

In essence, Walker-for-KM doesnt even come close to working, as a simple trade.

Sorry you are incorrect. The following trade uses O'Neal as an example. He is BYC but the trade still works. The money coming from Indiana is a little over $43M which is exactly the same as Kidd/Kittles/Mourning and a maxed out KMart. It just has to be a BIG dollar trade where the 15% variance is the same as the BYC of the newly maxed out player.

Indiana trades: C Scot Pollard (1.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.2 minutes)
SG Reggie Miller (10.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 28.7 minutes)
PG Fred Jones (4.7 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 18.0 minutes)
PF Primoz Brezec (1.2 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.2 apg in 3.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (8.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 5.8 apg in 26.3 minutes)
PG Anthony Johnson (6.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 21.7 minutes)
PG Kenny Anderson (5.8 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.8 apg in 21.1 minutes)
SF James Jones (1.2 ppg, 0.3 rpg, 0.0 apg in 4.3 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (13.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 31.2 minutes)
PF Austin Croshere (5.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.4 minutes)
PF Jermaine O'Neal (20.3 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 2.1 apg in 36.3 minutes)
Indiana receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.3 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 4.6 apg in 72 games)
SG Michael Finley (18.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 3.1 apg in 65 games)
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (18.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 3.1 apg in 65 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 58 games)
PG Travis Best (3.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.9 apg in 54 games)
Change in team outlook: -38.5 ppg, -16.8 rpg, and -11.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Poindexter Einstein
03-28-2004, 10:38 PM
How am I incorrect? I said that "Walker-for-KM doesnt even come close to working, as a simple trade" ...and your proof is that you could trade 11 PLAYERS from Indy and that would make it work? You would call that a "simple" trade, would you? lol

I was correct.

If you wanna nitpik - I already noted that the idea here was about 70% of the needed gap and could be solved with a bigger trade. Note also, that means you are trading the entire roster in essence. That is not a simple trade, which is my point. And you subbed TAWs big money for JHs small money which amps it up for this year by SIX MILLION. Note also - you are using 2004 numbers, and the problem gets worse next year, cause the max is bigger. Plus, everyone's next year numbers are different. I used the 2005 numbers which will require another several million or so.

My numbers were correct. This is not doable as a simple trade, of AW-for-KM, plus parts. End of story.

Max Power
03-28-2004, 10:56 PM
MAX ..."Probably only the big trade offered at the beginning of the thread would be doable ..." .....Nope, it wouldnt even come close to working either. A max raise combined with BYC rules would require 2 teams over the cap to swap almost a whole teams worth of players each direction - that huge trade there is only about 2/3 as big as is needed.

The big trade at the beginning was Kidd/Kittles/Mourning/KMart. That trade works because it is essentially the same money ($43M) as the Indiana trade I quoted.

You were incorrect, the trade can happen. Live with it.

Poindexter Einstein
03-28-2004, 11:11 PM
LOL ...show me a "simple trade" and I will live with it. The trade at the beginning was smaller than yours, and based on 2004 not 2005 numbers - and it doesnt work. Which is what I said. If you can come up with a trade next year with NJ that maxes out KM and satisfies the BYC and is a simple AW-for-KM in essence, have at it. This is too silly to argue about.

Max Power
03-28-2004, 11:16 PM
Back to the original topic.

Despite what SOME people are posting, a trade with New Jersey that lands us KMart and Kidd is possible despite the BYC issues. It would be a big trade - an eight or more player trade but we don't HAVE to have any other trading partners. Trading for KMart without Kidd is impossible without another trading partner - one far under the cap.