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LonestarROB
12-13-2001, 11:49 AM
He's now a Texas Ranger. I don't perticularly like him but all we gave up is Darren Oliver i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif . Player for Player, that's a HUGE steal for Texas. Whether Carl will behave himself is a hole nother story.

Murphy3
12-13-2001, 12:52 PM
yeah..i don't know what to think about this..if he's a good boy..well, yes, it's a great deal..if not, then it's a wash..a pain in the butt for a guy that can't play

MFFL
12-13-2001, 02:08 PM
I'd rather have a problem who can play (Everett) than one who can't (Oliver).

LonestarROB
12-13-2001, 02:23 PM
I guess this means the end of Gabe Kapler in Texas. Hope we can get some pitching for him.

Murphy3
12-13-2001, 11:16 PM
here's the situation with the rangers right now...
you have a starter at center field in Carl Everett
You have Gabe Kapler who can play center and right
you have Rusty Greer that can play left
you have Frank Catalanoto that plays Left and some right
and you have Carlos Pena, a guy that plays right field and 1st base

Here's what you can do.
Start Everet in center
Start Kapler in right
Start Greer in left
Start Cat at DH
Trade Carlos Pena for pitching..he's a up and coming prospect for the Rangers. However, he is primarily a 1st baseman trying to learn the infield. Right now, the Rangers have Palmeiro. By the time he's ready to DH full time, Texiera will be ready to play 1st base in the majors (he was moved to 1st base because of the emergence of Hank Blalock at 3rd base).
Pena is a very valuable commodity that I think is less likely to be a huge impact player in the majors than Blalock or Texiera. However, he is very valuable in trades to teams like Florida or Tampa Bay that are always looking for top notch talent that cost very little and aren't near to being a free agent. This is why Carlos Pena would be the most likely guy to be traded.

The rangers would have a starting lineup of:

1. Frank Catalonoto - DH
2. Rusty Greer - LF
3. Alex Rodriguez - SS
4. Rafael Palmeiro - 1B
5. Ivan Rodriguez - C
6. Carl Everett - CF
7. Mike Lamb - 3rd
8. Gabe Kapler - RF
9. Mike Young - 2nd

A lineup like this is very versatile. Rusty Greer could realistically bat 1st, 2nd, or 7th, 8th spot. Depending upon how he is swinging the bat
Cat is the obvious leadoff choice because his ability to reach base. The guy is a legitimate .310-.320 hitter with an OBP of .375+. He could also hit second
A-Rod is a lock in the third spot
Palmeiro is basically a lock at cleanup
With Pudge, he could also hit 2nd, 5th or 6th. I don't think he's a natural fit for the 2 spot because he has a tendancy to ground into double plays. This would put him or Everett in the 5th or 6th spot
Everett, he can bat anywhere from 2nd to 5th, 6th, or 7th in the lineup.
Lamb, this guy is a legitimate .300 hitter that walks. He has a very good eye. He can hit in the 2nd spot but fits nicely at the 7th or 8th spot.
Kapler, depending upon how he swings the bat and if able to find consistency, Gabe could fit nicely at the 2nd spot, or the 7th or 8th spot.
Mike Young. He's a young, developing player that has good pop for 2nd base. He's nice to have in the 9th spot because of his speed. His pop makes him a threat at the bottom of the lineup. He is a guy that will probably hit .275 for the Rangers this year. Not great, but throw in 20 homeruns and it looks pretty good for the 9th spot.


However, I think that Catalonoto and Kapler are both also being used as trade bait..along with Ricky Ledee

turbo.mav
12-14-2001, 12:52 AM
mark my words.... oliver to boston..

2002-2003 pitching stats : Darren Oliver

record : 16-4 2.48 ERA




always happens

LonestarROB
12-14-2001, 10:01 AM
Ya know, as funny and unlikely as that is, it always seems to happen that way dont it?

Murph, I think we should really hold on to Pena. He's got star quality at first and Raffy is get up their in age. It would be a mistake to trade him IMO. I think Kapler will be the first to go, and then Mike Lamb.

Murphy3
12-14-2001, 10:48 AM
well, in all honesty..i think Texiera is going to be a better hitter than Pena....and probably as good of a fielder. That's why i believe pena is expendable.

FineCubanCigar
12-14-2001, 03:11 PM
now only if we could find some poor sucker to take on Greer's contract, slide Gabe to left, Everette to center, Pena to right that would leave Cattalanoto to alternate between right feild and DH, cause Pena will see a bit of time at first when Raffie needs a day off to rest those knees ... having that said, Kapler is far more desirable than Greer... Lamb will be traded. that still leave of with Hank B. and Texiera(two of the most highly coveted players at any position)at third base ... what to do what to do. those types of problems are nice however, i say we keep them both and let them see as many at bats this year as possible at any position... if we deal Kapler maybe one of them will see Left field time, especially if Greer stays true to form and is hurt most of the season. I like Hart a lot. Now all we need is Rocker and the Rangers will be extremely entertaining win or losei/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

FineCubanCigar
12-14-2001, 03:18 PM
Kapler, Texiera, Hank B., Pena should all be untouchable and i think Hart knows that ... Kapler would be the first to depart this fearsome foursome if push came to shove... is Cordero expected back??? this guy was finaly tearing shit up before he got injured for the year, and he is young and cost us relatively nothing... great guy to have slotted as the fourth best bullpen guy.

FineCubanCigar
12-14-2001, 03:21 PM
sorry for so many post in a row, but i think the trick will be to hold on to the young star potential we have, release or trade our older guys for compensation picks or peices to the pitching staff, and pepper in some F.a. spending over the next coulpe of years... cause its all Yanks for a while with Giambi and co.

Murphy3
12-14-2001, 10:00 PM
I don't know....I think Catalanoto is higher in ranks with the Rangers right now than Kapler.
as for Pena, I think he is prime trade bait.
he is learning RF. Why is he learning right field you may ask? Well, because of Texiera. One of the Rangers' other top prospects is also a right fielder by the name of Jason Romano.
Now, if you have:
Greer
Kapler
Everett
Catalanoto
Romano
and
Pena
all outfielders ...

something must happen.
what could happen?
well, simple....someone must become expendable.
Rusty Greer has a no trade clause..so he's not expendable. The rangers just traded for Everett..so he's not going anywhere. Romano will spend the year in the minors in all likeliness.

That leaves Catalanoto, Kapler, and Pena all playing for one spot (with Romano ready in the minors.)
Well, Catalanoto is young and a proven .300 hitter. More importantly, he is a leadoff hitter. So, he needs to stay (quite frankly, he's the only leadoff hitter the Rangers' have right now).
So, it will come down between Kapler and Pena.
I would trade Pena because he has more trade value right now. The Rangers desperately need pitching. They are loaded right now at the positions in which Pena plays (first and right field). Therefore, I would put Pena and Ledee in a deal to come up with a viable starting pitcher and perhaps a set-up man. How can this be accomplished? There are several teams that are looking for inexpensive, young talent that is nowhere near being a free agent. The Rangers might be able to ship Ledee and Pena off to a team that has a veteran pitcher or two that are either too expensive or are in the last year of their contracts.
Or, the Rangers can trade Pena to a good team loaded with prospects that need a first baseman that can step in and play this year.

FineCubanCigar
12-16-2001, 07:18 AM
good points Murph, however i think the Rangers are looking to feild Cat at second and use Young as a defensive utility man(Hart believes second-base is an offensive postion, thus the early talk of signing Bret Boone) and Cat is a legit contender in the batting tittle next year. This would give us an infeild of Hank B./Lamb, A. Rod, Cat, Palmero/Texiera. I think everybody would agree this is one of the best young infeilds in the game and have legit batting champion contenders at three of the 4 positions(even excluding Pudge who will probobly be traded or simply left to play out his contract for compensation picks.) Pena will not be a career outfielder, when Palmerio retires he is penciled in to play 1st, which makes the grooming of another outfeilder important especially considering Greer's injury proneness and lack of production, so having Texiera/Kapler/Greer/Everette/Pena doesnt seem ridiculous but Kapler woukd probobly be first to leave since Pena is being relied on to play first after Palmerio retires and has decent defensive skills there(unlike Texiera). That would leave us whith Kapler, Lamb, and Ledee all expindible and to a lesser extent Michael Young to trade for pitching. This would be a coup for Milwalkee, Florida or some other likeminded team with arms and thirst for cheap young talent.

MFFL
12-16-2001, 03:38 PM
I hope the Rangers land Sele. Letting him leave was one of Melvin's major mistakes.

Murphy3
12-17-2001, 12:34 AM
actually, i don't think Cat will play second base unless they fail to move Pena or Kapler..however, they are openly shopping both.

the reason why they moved Texiera to first base is because they view Pena as possibly being expendable. They are expecting Texiera to be ready in about a year and a half...and are confident that Palmeiro can hold out that long in the field. However, if palmeiro was unable to play in the field, Pena would still be trade bait because the rangers just traded for H.Perry..who can swing the bat well and play first base

FineCubanCigar
12-17-2001, 02:57 AM
H.perry sux and Pena doesnt.

Murphy3
12-17-2001, 10:28 AM
no, he doesn't suck. That's a brilliant comeback though. Pena is very expendable because the rangers have a player at that position that they expect to be there for a long time in Mark Texiera. Now, it just depends on who other teams want.
I know there is alot of interest in Catalanoto...last year, there was alot of interest in Pena..although that seems to have lessened. same with kapler and ledee

FineCubanCigar
12-17-2001, 09:11 PM
well if Kapler and Pena are moved who will play rightfeild? Pena will be and has already shown us he is guy who hits for average and power, and play decent defense at first... the only reason Texiera is making the switch is he cant play good defense at third, plus Hank B.. Anyways Pena is the type of player we want on this team, he is a player that shows high production and doesnt cost much to keep around, Kapler already signed his first big contract, so move him, Lamb, Ledee for pitching, put Pena Evrette and Kapler in the outfeild and turn Greer into a fourth option in the outfeild when a lefthanded bat is needed.

Murphy3
12-18-2001, 01:47 AM
No, in all likeliness, greer will be starting for the rangers at the beginning of the season. He'll receive that opportunity to get back to where he was a couple of years ago.

and yes, the rangers are looking to move Kapler, Pena, or Catalanoto.

I didn't say they'd move all or even any combination..but they are seeing what's available in trades.

Now, I don't think that Kapler and Pena will be traded..just that they are both being shopped..one will probably be shipped...you almost definitely won't see an outfield featuring Kapler in left, Everett in Center and Pena in right...
both Pena and Kapler will not be starting for the rangers in the outfield

FineCubanCigar
12-18-2001, 11:27 AM
Pena wont imediately, however Kapler will start in one of the outfeild positions on opening day, baring a trade. The line-up previosly mentioned isnt so hard to believe when you take into consideration Greer's injury proneness and lack of production for three years running.

reeds
12-18-2001, 07:22 PM
Everett is a CANCER to any team. He is the biggest A HOLE in all of baseball. Wait and see....and then ill say I told ya so...

MFFL
12-18-2001, 09:01 PM
The biggest a-hole is the one we traded for today i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Rocker is a Ranger!

Murphy3
12-19-2001, 12:50 AM
I have absolutely no problem with the move.
Hopefully, he has learned his lesson and is ready to start a new chapter in his life. However, if he is any type of problem at all, he can be cut. Not that big of a deal. He is a risk..but a calculated risk that comes at a very cheap price if the rangers are wrong about him.

FineCubanCigar
12-19-2001, 11:15 PM
exactly, if even one of these guys works out, that one player will more than make up for any talent we traded.

Murphy3
12-20-2001, 02:03 AM
finally, we agree about something that has to do with baseball

MFFL
12-20-2001, 11:24 AM
The thing that fascinates me most about the Everett trade is that Boston took on a bloated contract (9 mil) and PAID 3.8 mil to trade Everett. Can you imagine the conversation - "Well, I guess we can take Everett for Oliver but only if you throw in a big stack of money!"

reeds
12-26-2001, 07:48 PM
we shall see....

FineCubanCigar
01-06-2002, 04:24 PM
at least hart has me excited about the team this season