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View Full Version : The only trade I would make for Z!


Max Power
12-30-2003, 06:37 PM
Dallas trades: PF Danny Fortson (3.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 12.0 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.1 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.4 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (14.6 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.5 apg in 30.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +1.7 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

Cleveland trades: C Zydrunas Illgauskas (14.6 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.5 apg in 30.4 minutes)
Cleveland receives: PF Danny Fortson (3.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.2 apg in 23 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.1 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.7 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Nash13
12-30-2003, 06:41 PM
I agree. Nobody else is worth trading. Because right now, i'd rather have Travis Best than Delk.

V
12-30-2003, 06:55 PM
I'm watching the Cavs right now ... and I just saw Big Z send a Jermaine Oneal turnaround back in his face with a-THOR-i-TAY. Then he hit a sweet lay in off the pivot in the low post.

If Z decides to play defense like that he's not going anywhere. ... especially for a bunch of bad contracts from Dallas. That guy can be dominating.

Simon2
12-30-2003, 08:35 PM
I'd do this trade in a second.

Walkerforthree
12-30-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by: V
I'm watching the Cavs right now ... and I just saw Big Z send a Jermaine Oneal turnaround back in his face with a-THOR-i-TAY. Then he hit a sweet lay in off the pivot in the low post.

If Z decides to play defense like that he's not going anywhere. ... especially for a bunch of bad contracts from Dallas. That guy can be dominating.

damn right he can, and i saw that sweet swat. People here bash Z too much, he is good, damn good.

ddh33
12-30-2003, 10:57 PM
Z would not be a bad addition to this team. I don't know that he solves our interior problems, but he would be a very nice, very large role player. I would still have my concerns about dealing for him, but we could do a lot worse.

LRB
12-31-2003, 10:19 AM
MP I'd do that trade in a heart beat. We lose almost nothing and get a very servicable big man. We'd be crazy not to do that trade. Of course Cleveland would probably be crazy to do that trade.

kg_veteran
12-31-2003, 10:32 AM
Unfortunately, it will take Jamison to get Big Z.

If the Mavs want to acquire either Big Z or Rasheed, it's going to cost Jamison.

jayC
12-31-2003, 10:57 AM
What are you nuts? Cleveland just as well keep him for two remaining years as to do the deal. Hell lets trade Delk and Najera for Duncan and parker while were at it.

Bayliss
12-31-2003, 11:21 AM
I watched part of the Indiana game last night. He played pretty good defense last night. He bodyied up against O'Neal really well. And he contested shots. If he did that in Dallas I would be happy. Another thing about him is he is an effective low post player, but he doesn't pass well out of the post.

If it took Jamison to get him, I would do it. And I'm not saying he's the "answer" to all of our problems but he is a good offensive rebounder. He scores well on the blocks. He is a true center, and will play center minutes. He forces Dirk back to power forward. And he can literally body up Duncan and Shaq for stretches.

A lineup of
Z/Bradley
Dirk/Walker
Walker/Howard
Fin/Howard
Nash/Daniels

Looks pretty good to me.

LRB
12-31-2003, 11:37 AM
I still don't understand why Cleveland would want to trade Big Z even for Jamison. Jamison is a great player, but they don't exactly have a need at his position.

sike
12-31-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Unfortunately, it will take Jamison to get Big Z.

If the Mavs want to acquire either Big Z or Rasheed, it's going to cost Jamison.


for Sheed, I do it......For Z...not so much!

ddh33
12-31-2003, 01:04 PM
Actually, I would have several concerns with Z.
Despite the cries of many fans for Nellie to move Dirk back to the 4 and out of the center position, I believe that is his best position for this team. When Dirk is at the 4 he will have to guard guys like Duncan, Garnett, Rasheed, Brand, etc. Personally, I would have him guarding the Brad Miller's, Vlade Divac's, Rashop Nesterovic's of the world. Acquiring Z would force Dirk to the forefront on the defensive end of the floor, unless you wanted to play Walker on the premier forward. But, the problem with that would be asking Dirk to match up with a much quicker perimter player like Peja, Szerbiak, and so on. The strange thing is that I sometimes think that Dirk does better defensively when he can guard people on the periimter. It's like he's more comfortable in space. Regardless, that's why I believe that Rasheed would be a better fit on this team than Z. Rasheed has the versatility to guard anyone and everyone that Dirk can't - except Shaq, but no one can guard him anyway. Rasheed can and does guard any frontcourt position which would allow Walker and Dirk to guard anyone who was left.
Getting Z in Dallas would cost us at least Antawn Jamison, which might be a bargain in many respects. But on this team, I think I would almost rather keep Jamison and have less balance. I just think that we need to be acquiring guys who compliment Dirk rather than forcing him to do things that aren't necessarily his strong suit. Z's presence would seem to hurt Dirk more than Jamison's does, in my own mind. Thoughts?

V
01-01-2004, 11:46 AM
10

Minutes played by Zydrunas Ilgauskas in last Sundayís 86-74 win against Portland. After being pulled toward the end of the first quarter and having a brief discussion with Silas, Big Z did not return. Having already benched Ricky Davis and Darius Miles, Silas has now put Big Z on the spot. His rationale``We wanted to go with guys who could keep up. (Portland) was really quick.'' The really quick Blazers played the really quick Vladimir Stepania 23 minutes. Huh?

Before Sundayís game, Silas had cited Big Zís inability to defend the pick-and-roll and negative +/- of the team with him on the floor as reasons for his dwindling minutes. It is no secret that Ilgauskas is a defensive liability and that his slow feet can be exploited on the pick-and-roll. The +/- figure cannot be disputed (although it has less importance in basketball than in hockey), but Big Zís abilities on the other end should not be forgotten. He shoots 50% from the field, has an array of post-up moves, and is a solid midrange shooter. Like any player, his game is a combination of strengths and weaknesses. So whatís the deal?

There are two possible interpretations.

#1 The Ricky Davis scenario: Silas has realized that Big Zís value is on the offensive end and that the ball must go through him on most possessions to counteract his liabilities on defense. He has not shown a great willingness to pass so once the ball is fed to him it is going toward the basket. Sure he is a good scorer, but all this time spent feeding Big Z in the post takes away from the potential time the ball is in LeBron James hands. Put simply-Silas wants the offense to center around James, not Ilgauskas. Sound familiar? The same thing was the case with Davis who stunk on defense and was really only effective on offense with the ball in his hands. Silas starting giving Davis more pine time, which was a prelude to his departure to the Celtics for guys who play defense and are complementary contributors on offense. In this scenario, the phasing out Big Z is a prelude to his departure via trade.

#2 The Darius Miles scenario: Silas first yanked Miles from the starting lineup and then benched him altogether for a few games after the Ricky Davis trade. In the last two games, Miles has again been given significant minutes off the bench and Silas has praised his contributions, especially his effort on the defensive end. This is the same message being sent to Big Z. Put more effort in on defense and the minutes will return. The benching on Sunday was just a motivational ploy by Silas, and the Cavs want to keep Big Z in the fold. This, in my opinion, is the most likely interpretation of what is going on.

V
01-01-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by: ddh33
Actually, I would have several concerns with Z.
Despite the cries of many fans for Nellie to move Dirk back to the 4 and out of the center position, I believe that is his best position for this team. When Dirk is at the 4 he will have to guard guys like Duncan, Garnett, Rasheed, Brand, etc. Personally, I would have him guarding the Brad Miller's, Vlade Divac's, Rashop Nesterovic's of the world. Acquiring Z would force Dirk to the forefront on the defensive end of the floor, unless you wanted to play Walker on the premier forward. But, the problem with that would be asking Dirk to match up with a much quicker perimter player like Peja, Szerbiak, and so on. The strange thing is that I sometimes think that Dirk does better defensively when he can guard people on the periimter. It's like he's more comfortable in space. Regardless, that's why I believe that Rasheed would be a better fit on this team than Z. Rasheed has the versatility to guard anyone and everyone that Dirk can't - except Shaq, but no one can guard him anyway. Rasheed can and does guard any frontcourt position which would allow Walker and Dirk to guard anyone who was left.
Getting Z in Dallas would cost us at least Antawn Jamison, which might be a bargain in many respects. But on this team, I think I would almost rather keep Jamison and have less balance. I just think that we need to be acquiring guys who compliment Dirk rather than forcing him to do things that aren't necessarily his strong suit. Z's presence would seem to hurt Dirk more than Jamison's does, in my own mind. Thoughts?

Are you reading my mind? You articulate the single most logical argument for Wallace over Ilgauskas. Excellent post. Of course I'm not sure if either of these guys solves the Mavs problems.

I sent some of my thoughts in a PM but I think - combined with your comment - this is applicable to this thread:

As for trade target - I have two primary concerns with Wallace: How will he fit in with Walker & Nowitzki since they all three like to "float." and How many minutes can he run at center. He's fitting into a "spot center" role right now... which is similar to what we envisioned for Dirk this year. Wallace probably plays about 13 - 18 minutes at the 5 per night. If he comes to Dallas you may see some sort of wierd center rotation with Dirk getting about 15+ minutes, Wallace 15+, Bradley 10-15 minutes... of course Wallace will play 40 minutes & guard the opposing team's best offensive threat at the 3-4-5.

On Wallace vs. Big Z... well we're talking apples & oranges. You know Z is an old school lumbering big body center. He's vulnerable to the pick & roll but he scores 50% inside. He play mediocre defense but he deters inside attempts.... so I guess I have to defer to the coaches again... how do they want to play & win basketball games?

Personally I think it would be fun to watch either player. Wallace plays a game we're accustomed to seeing. Big Z will require a minor philosophical change.

Here's the short answer to your question: If I'm the GM & I'm going to fix things I'm gonna' need some pliers, and a set of 30 weight ball bearings (it's all ball bearing nowadays) And I'm gonna' need about 10 quarts of antifreeze, preferably Prestone. No, make that Quaker State.

kingrex
01-05-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
I still don't understand why Cleveland would want to trade Big Z even for Jamison. Jamison is a great player, but they don't exactly have a need at his position.

This is the key to all trade offers to Cleveland for Z. Who in our roster would Cleveland really want that is not named Dirk or Nash?

Stew3636
01-05-2004, 01:24 PM
Also, any trade for Z would probably have to include darius miles