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View Full Version : HOT TRADE RUMOR--NYKs and SUNS


MavKikiNYC
01-05-2004, 11:21 AM
Just heard a report of a trade in the works involving:

McDyess
Ward
Eisley

for

Marbury
P.Hardaway

NYKs get Marbury, Suns get cap room after Nodice's contract expires.

Let the purge continue.

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 11:27 AM
wow..double wow. The Suns have been a major disappointment but I don't understand this trade. Marbury Is a tough person to like and doesn't get along with his teammates, but he is a talent. I believe his is 26 and he is one of the top 3 point guards in the league. Not sure why Phoenix wants to blow this up. With a healthy Amare they still have a very intriguing team.

aexchange
01-05-2004, 11:33 AM
is it possible for the mavs to jump in and offer walker plus trash for starbury?

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 11:35 AM
Well, this means that Nash is sure to make the All-Star Team!!! Francis will likely start, but there is no other obvious deserving PG in front of Nash now, (even though Marbury was questionable with his teams win-loss percentage)!!! You could argue Cassell, but I vote for Nash!!!

Regarding getting Marbury for Walker, I say a BIG no... Unless you want the return of small-ball... Now if you said Nash for Marbury, I would still say no, but that would at least be a bit more realistic...

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 11:38 AM
Nope, Starbury is Isiah's type of point guard. It was the move Isiah has been waiting to make. Bring the NY product home to play in the Garden. As I said before Marbury is a tough guy to like, but he is one of the top 10-15 players in the league. I am shocked at this move by Phoenix.

Maybe Phoenix will dump Jahidi White now. I wish we had a ending salary that would match White. He is the type of banger I have been wanting.

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 11:45 AM
Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (6.1 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.4 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Jahidi White (4.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 16.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.5 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

Phoenix trades: C Jahidi White (4.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 16.0 minutes)
Phoenix receives: PG Tony Delk (6.1 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.5 ppg, +0.5 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Dallas and Phoenix being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Dallas and Phoenix had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

I guess this means we DO have something to offer them, but I dont think Phoenix bites!

aexchange
01-05-2004, 11:46 AM
The Knicks and Suns finalized a blockbuster trade Monday that will return Stephon Marbury to his hometown.


The Knicks acquire Marbury and Penny Hardaway from Phoenix for Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, the rights to Milos Vujanic, two first-round draft picks, and cash, ESPN.com has learned.


The trade still requires NBA approval. The Suns will get the Knicks' first-round pick this year and a future conditional first-round pick.


The trade will be the fifth of Marbury's career. The Brooklyn native was drafted by Milwaukee and immediately traded to Minnesota, where he subsequently forced a trade to New Jersey.


The Nets traded him to Phoenix for Jason Kidd, and he now could be headed to the Knicks in the first major move made by new team president Isiah Thomas.


The trade is a major shakeup of both teams. Phoenix, in exchange for its best player, would be gaining salary cap flexibility that would allow the Suns to rebuild a team that was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs last season after missing the postseason a year earlier.


The contracts of McDyess and Ward expire at the end of this season, and Ward has a buyout clause that can be exercised before Jan. 10.


Eisley is under contract for three more seasons; Vujanic, the starting point guard on the Yugoslavian team that won the 2002 World Championships, is playing in Europe.


Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

kingrex
01-05-2004, 12:07 PM
As I posted on the trade board, this is a nice move by Isaiah, and it seems the Suns have decided to build on the Matrix and Amare.

Tony tha Mavs fan
01-05-2004, 12:48 PM
he Knicks and Suns tentatively agreed to a blockbuster trade Monday that will return Stephon Marbury to his hometown.

New York acquires Marbury, Penny Hardaway, and Cezary Trybanski from Phoenix for Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe, the rights to Milos Vujanic, and cash.

The Suns also would receive two first-round draft picks -- the Knicks' first-round pick in the 2004 draft, which is unprotected, and a future conditional first-rounder, ESPN.com has learned.

The trade still requires NBA approval.

The trade will be the fourth of Marbury's career. The Brooklyn native was drafted by Milwaukee and immediately traded to Minnesota, where he subsequently forced a trade to New Jersey.

The Nets traded Marbury to Phoenix for Jason Kidd, and he now is headed to the Knicks in the first major move made by new team president Isiah Thomas.

If the trade is finalized, it would represent a major shakeup of both teams. Phoenix, in exchange for its best player, would be gaining salary cap flexibility that would allow the Suns to rebuild a team that was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs last season after missing the postseason a year earlier.

The contracts of McDyess and Ward expire at the end of this season, and Ward has a buyout clause that can be exercised before Jan. 10. Eisley is under contract for three more seasons; Vujanic, the starting point guard on the Yugoslavian team that won the 2002 World Championships, is playing in Europe.

Marbury, one of the league's best point guards, is averaging a team high 20.8 points for the Suns, who are in last place in the Pacific Division. Hardaway, a former All-Star, is in the final year of his contract and has been coming off the bench for the Suns.

McDyess, formerly of the Suns, returned to the court in December after missing more than a year because of knee surgery. He lost his spot in the Knicks' starting lineup to Kurt Thomas, thereby becoming expendable.

Eisley, who recently lost his starting job to Frank Williams, did not play in the Knicks' 95-85 loss to New Jersey on Sunday night.

Ward has been with the Knicks for 10 seasons, the second longest tenure of any player who spent his career with one NBA team.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.


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Tony tha Mavs fan
01-05-2004, 12:49 PM
that trade makes alot more sense with lampe and 2 first round picks going to the suns

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 12:53 PM
This is a very odd move. Jerry C in Phoenix is a very shrewd businessman. I think he made this trade to go after Kobe this offseason. That is the only way this trade makes sense. Maybe the foreign point guard can play, but McDyess is damaged goods right now and I think they are more interested in his cap space.

I will hold off on my criticism of this trade. If Kobe is the target than it is very gutsy but also maybe very rewarding....pending the outcome of Kobe's trial.

madape
01-05-2004, 12:55 PM
Damn that's a lot of young talent to give up.

Thomas is burning and scorching and pillaging the future of this team. What a steal for the Suns. Loads of talent, draft picks, cap space... and don't forget that McDyess could be the best player in the trade when healthy.

Why couldn't the Mavs be the first in line to rape Isiah?

MavKikiNYC
01-05-2004, 01:03 PM
Thomas just burned down the NYKs--that is GROSS overpayment for Starbury, whose teams have NEVER performed at a high level, ANYWHERE he's ever been, and this trade reunites him with KVH who he totally dissed in NJ.

Colangelo totally worked Isiah over here.

Thomas will be gone in two years.

MikeB
01-05-2004, 01:04 PM
The Suns gave WAY more than they got on this one. Dice is damaged goods...they got rid of Eisley AND Ward and got back Starbury AND Penny. Young talent is great IF they turn into anything. A Polish Rookie forward for a second year Polish Center and a PG who isn't even in the league. Phoenix is taking the pipe on this one.

dirno2000
01-05-2004, 01:12 PM
When is the last time McDyess has been healthy and productive? It's doubtful that he'll ever fulfill the potential he showed in his 1st couple of years.

Isiah got an all star quality player at one of the two hardest positions to fill. I would hardly call that getting rapped.

Phoenix is basically mailing in the season and giving away talent for cap room. Why would you want the Mavs to do that?

Dooby
01-05-2004, 01:15 PM
I can't believe the Knicks are giving up an unprotected first. Without a lottery, that is currently the 7th pick. And the Suns right now are a projected top 10 pick anyway. Plus a later first rounder. Plus the cap space.

Wow.

What a great trade for the Suns.

Isaeh has cajones.

SaltwaterChaffy
01-05-2004, 01:18 PM
NY also gave up 2 first round picks, including this year's pick (unprotected), that could be huge, because I don't see the Knicks making the playoffs. Maybe they can make a run at it with Steph, but I don't know.

Not sure what Colangelo is thinking here. I think overall, he came out ahead, mainly due to the cap and the picks, but Steph, Amare, and Matrix sure seemed like a hell of a thing to build around.

Then again, it doesn't have the same ring as Amare, Matrix, and Vujanic.i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Hitman
01-05-2004, 01:22 PM
Poor Keith.

As a New Yorker, poor me. How can one possibly root for MeBury.

The man who puts the "dis" in distribute.

Ugh.

Hitman
01-05-2004, 01:29 PM
Marbury: Keith will fail here

By MITCH LAWRENCE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

In Knick-land, Latrell Sprewell is out and Keith Van Horn is in - in for the shock of his pro basketball life, according to his former Nets teammate, Stephon Marbury.
"I don't see it working here for Keith," Marbury said bluntly at the Garden last night before he played in the 11th All-Star Classic to benefit Wheelchair Charities. "It's a whole other world here.

"I don't see Keith playing here long. I don't think he'll want to play here long. He's been put in this situation... . The atmosphere and the team is not suitable for him."

Why not?

"You've got to be way tougher than Keith is to play in New York," said Marbury, the Lincoln High legend who played two-plus seasons in Jersey with Van Horn before being shipped to Phoenix for Jason Kidd.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 01:39 PM
I'm with ape, Dooby, and Kiki on this one. I am totally shocked that Isaiah made this trade.

Phoenix wins this trade HUGE.

And that's before we know the status of the 2004 1st round pick.

Thomas is banking heavily on making the playoffs. I will laugh my ass off when they don't and Phoenix gets the No. 1 pick.

Thomas usually takes a year or two to totally destroy something when he takes over the reins. He's off to a much quicker start in NYK-land.

grndmstr_c
01-05-2004, 01:39 PM
My first reaction was what the hell are the Suns thinking? The odds are against Mcdyess ever regaining his old form, meaining Marbury is BY FAR the surest thing in the trade. However, considering all the cap space, and now the inclusion of Lampe (who wasn't included in the original reports), I'm thinking it's a pretty nice trade for the Suns. The chances of them making the playoffs in the West this year just took a hit, but that means they now have two realistic shots at lottery picks this year to go along with two nice, proven building block guys in Amare and Matrix, a stable of young talent in Cabarkapa, Lampe, Johnson, etc., and cap room. This trade, which looks good now, could turn out to be great. Could this be the second time that a team has catapulted itself into championship contention by trading away Stephon Marbury?

Big Lo
01-05-2004, 01:43 PM
ny totally raped phx and took advantage of a club in desperate need of making a move to justify its horrible start. the knicks basically gave up aging players and unproven talent to pick up a very potent back court from the west. added to Houston, thomas, van horn, and role players. the knicks should right the ship after the all-star break and make the playoffs again this season. especially in the eastern conf. the knicks finally have the hardcore talent theyve wanted. much better than taking chances in the draft. that city is made for winning, not for rebuilding. and isaiah has the right approach.

Drbio
01-05-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'm with ape, Dooby, and Kiki on this one. I am totally shocked that Isaiah made this trade.

Phoenix wins this trade HUGE.

And that's before we know the status of the 2004 1st round pick.

Thomas is banking heavily on making the playoffs. I will laugh my ass off when they don't and Phoenix gets the No. 1 pick.

Thomas usually takes a year or two to totally destroy something when he takes over the reins. He's off to a much quicker start in NYK-land.

I have to agree. Someone said Thomas will be gone in two years....will he really take that long to get run out of town? Huge nut up by Thomas. IF it works, he might be a candidate for cojones of the year. I am betting that Colangelo just made out like a bandit though.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 01:50 PM
Marbury: Keith will fail here

By MITCH LAWRENCE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

In Knick-land, Latrell Sprewell is out and Keith Van Horn is in - in for the shock of his pro basketball life, according to his former Nets teammate, Stephon Marbury.
"I don't see it working here for Keith," Marbury said bluntly at the Garden last night before he played in the 11th All-Star Classic to benefit Wheelchair Charities. "It's a whole other world here.

"I don't see Keith playing here long. I don't think he'll want to play here long. He's been put in this situation... . The atmosphere and the team is not suitable for him."

Why not?

"You've got to be way tougher than Keith is to play in New York," said Marbury, the Lincoln High legend who played two-plus seasons in Jersey with Van Horn before being shipped to Phoenix for Jason Kidd.

Hitman, I think you and I both know Van Horn will be gone by the deadline. Any way we can trick Thomas into giving us Van Horn cheaply?

EricaLubarsky
01-05-2004, 01:51 PM
*sigh* first Jason Kidd and now Starbury. The Suns really want to fail.

Dice is another Gugliota- a guy who has seen his star power wither under repeated injuries.
Ward is the crappy point guard that the Knicks have been trying to give away Ward for a loooooong time
Eisley is average...I guess

D'antoni and Collangelo are morons to keep trading allstar point guards away especially when good point guards are so hard to find and are so vital to the success of the team.

Do I see another trade coming along for the Matrix soon? That seems to be more probable now than it ever was. Mike D'Antoni has never really liked Marion's game. Too bad we already have so many forwards- we could make out like bandits during the Sun's fire sale

It took the suns a few years to make the playoffs, and this trade means it is going to take a few more for them to see the post season again. This was a very effective rebuilding tool, but a crappy trade talent-wise for the Suns. They effectively traded away 2/3 of what got them to the playoffs last year.

madape
01-05-2004, 01:52 PM
Sorry, but the Knicks still don't have a team good enough to compete in the east. A frountcourt rotation of Thomas/Mutumbo/Doleac/Sweetney isn't going to get it done, even in the East. A group of underachieving playoff losers like Marbury, Van Horn, and Alan Houston certainly aren't good enough to carry them. With no cap room for years, no draft picks, no youth, no tradable assets... the Knicks won't be able to address any of the other holes on their team until at keast 2006. Marbury is a good player, but he's proven time and time again that he's not good enough. The last three teams he's played for have all decided that dumping him would be the best way to achieve a better than 8th-10th place finish in their conferences. I guess Thomas wasn't paying attention.

EricaLubarsky
01-05-2004, 01:54 PM
Hitman, I think you and I both know Van Horn will be gone by the deadline. Any way we can trick Thomas into giving us Van Horn cheaply?

Do we want another soft, jumpshooting forward who does not play defense and only scores effectively in spurts?

thebac
01-05-2004, 02:04 PM
Doesn't seem to lopsided in either direction to me.

Considering McDyess' and Ward's contracts expire at the end of the season, in addition to Googs's monster contract, the Suns will have gained quite a bit of cap room. The throw-ins are hardly worth talking about. Penny has a horrible contract, and it's a minor miracle that the Suns managed to trade him. Trybanski is a project who probably won't pan out.

What are the Suns getting? A decent, but overpaid backup point guard in Eisley, two projects in Lampe and Vujanic, plus 2 first-rounders. Not too bad.

The Knicks traded away some mediocre players (don't tell me Dice will ever regain his form) with good contracts (good not as in low but as in short), plus 2 first-rounders, but they're getting Marbury. They don't care about bad contracts as they are well over the cap, anyway. Marbury is a special player where, if you have a chance to get him, you'll give up quite a bit. There's no guarantee that the Suns will get a player nearly as good as Marbury with the newfound cap room or either of the picks. And it's not as if New York went over the cap with this trade--they were never going to get under it, anyway.

Basically, it was 2 first-rounders and lots of cap room for a team that has use for it in exchange for Marbury. Sounds like a deal.

Obviously, this was a reaction to the bad season the Suns were having. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't have extended Marbury's contract or, more importantly, traded Brevin Knight's expiring contract for Jahidi White. The Suns now have some $33 million tied up in contracts beyond next season if they renounce all their free agents. If they hadn't made the trade for White, they would have had some $28 million tied up only, which would have allowed them to easily pursue two quality free agents.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
*sigh* first Jason Kidd and now Starbury. The Suns really want to fail.

You're assuming they could succeed with Starbury. Colangelo obviously felt differently. He clearly thought that he needed to add more than just Marbury to his pair of talented forwards to have a chance in the rugged West. Now he gets several young guys with potential, a ton of cap room to pursue marquee free agents, and two lottery picks to plug into the rotation next year.

What does Thomas get? A starting lineup of Starbury, Houston, Van Horn, K. Thomas, and Mutombo? I don't know if that team makes the second round in the East. And for the future? Mutombo has one foot in the grave, K. Thomas will be exiting stage right in free agency, and they'll be left with a future starting lineup of Starbury, Houston, Van Horn, Sweetney, and Doleac. Forgive me if I'm not impressed.

I think Colangelo made a brilliant trade.


Hitman, I think you and I both know Van Horn will be gone by the deadline. Any way we can trick Thomas into giving us Van Horn cheaply?

Do we want another soft, jumpshooting forward who does not play defense and only scores effectively in spurts?[/quote]

Depends on the price. Also, who is the first one?

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 02:10 PM
Maybe Phoenix will dump Jahidi White now. I wish we had a ending salary that would match White. He is the type of banger I have been wanting.

I agree with this. Too bad we don't.

EricaLubarsky
01-05-2004, 02:11 PM
Depends on the price. Also, who is the first one?

LaFrentz. Nowitzki isnt phenomenal on defense but his shot isnt nearly as streaky as Van Horn's so I dint include him

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 02:14 PM
Oh, gotcha.

I think Van Horn would fit well in this system if you didn't have to give up too much for him. Too bad we don't have any Rucker Park legends to throw at Isaiah...

EricaLubarsky
01-05-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Maybe Phoenix will dump Jahidi White now. I wish we had a ending salary that would match White. He is the type of banger I have been wanting.

I agree with this. Too bad we don't.

We could trade away talent to get a 2" taller version of Fortson. I was tongue in cheek, but it sounds kind of appealing.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 02:35 PM
FWIW, they're dogging this trade on the Knicks board at Hoopsworld. As one Knicks fan pointed out there, in 2007-2008, the Knicks will be at the salary cap limit after paying Marbury, Houston, and Shandon Anderson.

Ouch.

Big Lo
01-05-2004, 02:37 PM
youre wrong, marbury is more than good enoug, and has proven it by carrying his team to the playoffs last year. problem is, hes alwas been on teams in which he was the teams best and most tradeable commodity. he was sent not because he was a problem; and he hasnt been on phx, but because he has extrodinary talent, and it was phx's only way to get a deal done. leaving him out in most trade negotiations is mostly a deal breaker. that back court is more than enough to compete because it can score points. and being in teh east they should compete easily. name me a better back court over in the east. big's need only give them a physical presence down low and not score too much. they may deal for one more scorer by the deadline tho. more than likely a 4 or a 3.

id say;
marbury
hardaway
houston
thomas/van horn
mutombo

solid veteran lineup in the east.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by: Big Lo
youre wrong, marbury is more than good enoug, and has proven it by carrying his team to the playoffs last year.

The Knicks had better hope Marbury is good enough, because they've now committed to trying to win it all with a nucleus of Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Anderson, and Sweetney. Good luck to them with all that.


name me a better back court over in the east.

Off the top of my head...

Iverson/Snow
Davis/Wesley
Billups/Hamilton

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 03:04 PM
I must say that I would MUCH rather have Marbury and Houston over any three of those tandems you listed...

Iverson and Snow??? You should have just listed Iverson and FILLER... No way I prefer these two...
Davis is a great talent, but basically him and Marbury are even in talent, so your saying that Wesley = Houston... Nope
Billups is underrated, but Hamilton is overrated... No chance they would be taken over Marbury and Houston

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 03:09 PM
And I realize you were probably judging Big Lo's roster as their backcourt; however, it will not shape up like that...

C-Mutombo
PF-Thomas
SF-Van Horn
SG-Houston
PG-Marbury

That, IMO, is how their roster will shape up until a trade for Thomas or Van Horn occurs

dirno2000
01-05-2004, 03:10 PM
I agree Dan.

The Knicks were in the same positon that the Mavs are in. They're never going to be far enough below the cap the sign a FA outright, even with the lure of playing in NYC. Like Dallas, they pretty much have to trade thier way to prosperity. Getting an all-star at the one is a good start.

madape
01-05-2004, 03:11 PM
Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Anderson, and Sweetney doesn't scare me.

15 years of Stoudemire, Marion, Cabarkapa, Lampe, and Vujacic does. No one drafts better than the Suns, and they just picked up two first rounders, one unprotected...AND they have enough salary cap room to go after a big name free agent next year. Yikes!

Erica, you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

Max Power
01-05-2004, 03:13 PM
I wonder what's going on in Phoenix. I understood the Marbury for Kidd trade - the Suns were trying to build for the future and traded away an older point guard for a younger one. They reloaded for the future and it was a bright future with Marbury, Matrix, and Amare.

But what is this trade? It looks like they are going strictly for cap space but what free agent is going to go to Phoenix? The young players they are getting from New York >might< work out but then again it is a big gamble because they could all fail. Honestly it looks more like a LA Clipper type of move - stay competitive but stay cheap.

And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

grndmstr_c
01-05-2004, 03:16 PM
Off the top of my head...

Iverson/Snow
Davis/Wesley
Billups/Hamilton

IMO, only one that comes close to Marbury/Houston is Davis/Wesley Marbury vs. Davis is a push, and I'd give a bit of an edge to Houston. AI and Marbury are close in terms of value (slight edge to AI), but Snow's not at Houston's level (though I really do like Eric). Billups and Hamilton are both a step down from Marbury and Houston.

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Anderson, and Sweetney doesn't scare me.

15 years of Stoudemire, Marion, Cabarkapa, Lampe, and Vujacic does. No one drafts better than the Suns, and they just picked up two first rounders, one unprotected...AND they have enough salary cap room to go after a big name free agent next year. Yikes!

Erica, you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

I think they will have major cap room this year too.

let me tell you one more thing about the Suns. I have watched a few games and their rookie point guard Barbosa is going to be a player. I really like him. He has arms like Josh Howard and he can really move. He too will need to get a better jump shot, but just wait until he learns the NBA game. The Suns had a very good draft this year.

Max Power
01-05-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by: madape
you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

It sounds like Phoenix is on a Russian three year plan. Every three years they come up with a new plan.

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Anderson, and Sweetney doesn't scare me.

15 years of Stoudemire, Marion, Cabarkapa, Lampe, and Vujacic does. No one drafts better than the Suns, and they just picked up two first rounders, one unprotected...AND they have enough salary cap room to go after a big name free agent next year. Yikes!

Erica, you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

I think they will have major cap room this year too.

let me tell you one more thing about the Suns. I have watched a few games and their rookie point guard Barbosa is going to be a player. I really like him. He has arms like Josh Howard and he can really move. He too will need to get a better jump shot, but just wait until he learns the NBA game. The Suns had a very good draft this year.

ReDIRKulous
01-05-2004, 03:20 PM
Why doesn't the Knicks organization make Spike Lee the GM? He couldn't do worse... and the fans would probably love him no matter what.

dirno2000
01-05-2004, 03:22 PM
Cap room is overrated (unless they can get Kobe).

Maybe the Suns will be good in 3 years, but if I'm a PHX fan who expected to be competitive this year, that's little consolation. It's Janurary and the Suns have no chance to make the playoffs.

madape
01-05-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power
I wonder what's going on in Phoenix. I understood the Marbury for Kidd trade - the Suns were trying to build for the future and traded away an older point guard for a younger one. They reloaded for the future and it was a bright future with Marbury, Matrix, and Amare.

But what is this trade? It looks like they are going strictly for cap space but what free agent is going to go to Phoenix? The young players they are getting from New York >might< work out but then again it is a big gamble because they could all fail. Honestly it looks more like a LA Clipper type of move - stay competitive but stay cheap.

And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

The bigger question is what are the Knicks doing? Clearly this isn't a championship caliber team (I can go ahead and say that, right?). Without any draft picks, no young prospects, and no cap room, how are they going to take that next step? The answer is that they can't. This move proves that the Knicks are not really interested in building a championship team. Thier goal is build a team that will struggle to make the eighth seed in the Eastern Conference. Every good team rebuilds areound youth. The Knicks choose to rebuild around other teams' rejects.

What a sad day for Knick fans.

madape
01-05-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by: Chicago JK

Originally posted by: madape
Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Anderson, and Sweetney doesn't scare me.

15 years of Stoudemire, Marion, Cabarkapa, Lampe, and Vujacic does. No one drafts better than the Suns, and they just picked up two first rounders, one unprotected...AND they have enough salary cap room to go after a big name free agent next year. Yikes!

Erica, you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

I think they will have major cap room this year too.

let me tell you one more thing about the Suns. I have watched a few games and their rookie point guard Barbosa is going to be a player. I really like him. He has arms like Josh Howard and he can really move. He too will need to get a better jump shot, but just wait until he learns the NBA game. The Suns had a very good draft this year.

Ugh. I forgot about him. Lampe, Vujacic, Barbosa, Cabarkapa, two first round picks next year. If any two of those guys turn out to be players, I'd be concerned as a Maverick fan. With the Sun's track record, I'd be surprised if all of them don't turn out to be players.

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Anderson, and Sweetney doesn't scare me.

15 years of Stoudemire, Marion, Cabarkapa, Lampe, and Vujacic does. No one drafts better than the Suns, and they just picked up two first rounders, one unprotected...AND they have enough salary cap room to go after a big name free agent next year. Yikes!

Erica, you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

First of all, none of these players listed of any REAL quality, (Stoudemire and Marion), are going to play 15 more years... I think the 1960s-80s are long gone in which players went on for 20 years or so... And yes, I know this is Stoudemire's second year...

Regarding these first rounders that the Suns picked up, with the years they draft being the years that NY DOES have all of their talent together, meaning playoffs each year and no lottery picks for Phoenix, neither pick will be THAT good anyways... Sure the Josh Howard possibility is there, but as always, unlikely... Regarding the lineup you find scary vs. the one you dont... Does Cabarkapa, Lampe, and Vujacic really instill fear into your heart??? Because if it does, you sure are a timid little ape... Who knows how those guys will pan out... You damn sure dont and neither do I... But you also do not know how Sweetney will pan out now do you??? Its like your comparing apples to apples, (prospects), and you KNOW one set of prospects is better than the other...

Only time will tell how this will all pan out... But I disagree that it is so obvious!

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by: madape

Originally posted by: Max Power
I wonder what's going on in Phoenix. I understood the Marbury for Kidd trade - the Suns were trying to build for the future and traded away an older point guard for a younger one. They reloaded for the future and it was a bright future with Marbury, Matrix, and Amare.

But what is this trade? It looks like they are going strictly for cap space but what free agent is going to go to Phoenix? The young players they are getting from New York >might< work out but then again it is a big gamble because they could all fail. Honestly it looks more like a LA Clipper type of move - stay competitive but stay cheap.

And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

The bigger question is what are the Knicks doing? Clearly this isn't a championship caliber team (I can go ahead and say that, right?). Without any draft picks, no young prospects, and no cap room, how are they going to take that next step? The answer is that they can't. This move proves that the Knicks are not really interested in building a championship team. Thier goal is build a team that will struggle to make the eighth seed in the Eastern Conference. Every good team rebuilds areound youth. The Knicks choose to rebuild around other teams' rejects.

What a sad day for Knick fans.

I wouldn't call marbury a reject. He is a top 10-15 player in the league who is only 26 I believe. He will shine in NY and will be the top PG in the East. I am not a big Isiah fan so it is hard to defend him, but I think you are being way too tough on him. Isiah wanted a star and you ussually can't get them very easily. isiah will move Van Horn and hope to pick up another player. Houston is overpaid but I think he will fit in pretty well with marbury. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move Kurt Thomas for another young player.

Who know how this will turn out but Isiah is buiding the Knicks in his own image. They were going nowhere with Layden and this may turn to be a bad move for Isiah. Isiah is taking a chance but the Knicks are a better team today than they were yesterday. Isiah needs to make some more moves...lets see if he can before we bury the knicks. This trade won't be able to be fully judged until 3 years down the road.

BTW, How in the world did all everything Peter Vescey get left out of the loop in this rumor in his own city. What a joke! Vescey has as much inside info as I have.

Rhylan
01-05-2004, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: madape
you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

It sounds like Phoenix is on a Russian three year plan. Every three years they come up with a new plan.

The mystery of the Texas Rangers -- solved!!!!

Phoenix got the better of this deal long term, because Marbury's performance does not live up to his talent.. even though he's very talented and his high points have been high. Phoenix now has more young players, draft picks, and money to pay them. New York has... Steph. And some overpaid fools like Houston, and whatever bag of beans Isiah can get for KVH.

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 03:59 PM
How can you say for sure that Phoenix got the better long term... What if McDyess never gets back to form, both picks end up being scrubs, (along with the two scrub point guards they received), and they lose out to Kobe/other great talent this offseason... Which is all JUST AS MUCH POSSIBLE as the other option, which would be both picks end up great, McDyess ends up 100 percent, and Marbury never takes the Knicks to the playoffs!

Big Lo
01-05-2004, 04:04 PM
in 3 years no one will care but the suns. since the big boys are corncerned about winning now. people dont care about anyone elses kids , till those kids are big enough to cause us poroblems.

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 04:07 PM
Amen! In three years Phoenix may not even have a team anymore and NY may have won three straight HOCKEY titles for all I know!!!

Pure OPINIONATED speculation from obvious hatred is all this is!

Big Boy Laroux
01-05-2004, 04:35 PM
i think kiki said it once... something along the lines of how the knicks are too self-important to rebuild. thus, they never get youth. and if they do, they trade it away. it's always about now in new york, not the future.

Bayliss
01-05-2004, 04:38 PM
Good God. Marbury is like drinking Budweiser. Aftera few drinks, the buzz is great, but when he hangs around long enough, all you're left with is a bloated stomach and a hangover.

No thanks. Marbury is not have the legend he thinks he is or ever will be. I can't believe Thomas is so shortsighted.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by: Male22Dan
I must say that I would MUCH rather have Marbury and Houston over any three of those tandems you listed...

Iverson and Snow??? You should have just listed Iverson and FILLER... No way I prefer these two...

Rag on Snow all you want, but last I checked he's a pretty damn solid point guard who is a very good defender. You could have that, or a one-dimensional shooting guard who can't defend at all and doesn't board or pass well. I'll take Snow.

That leaves it to Iverson vs. Marbury, and I think we both know who wins that comparison.


Davis is a great talent, but basically him and Marbury are even in talent, so your saying that Wesley = Houston... Nope

Even with Davis' stellar year so far, I can accept the statement that they are "equal in talent". That's probably fair. So if they negate each other, let's get back to Houston vs. Wesley. Again, you can have 20 ppg and no defense, or 16-18 ppg and good defense. Houston might be more talented, but I'll take Wesley.


Billups is underrated, but Hamilton is overrated... No chance they would be taken over Marbury and Houston

You might be right on this one, but I'm not so sure. Let's see how it looks by the end of the year.

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 04:58 PM
Ugh...

I quit trying!

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 05:03 PM
And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

Max, we won't know the answer to your question for a few years. The Suns could get a couple of guys with as much (or more) talent than Marbury.

Max Power
01-05-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by: Rhylan

Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: madape
you can poke fun at the Suns now, but in three years, no one will be laughing.

It sounds like Phoenix is on a Russian three year plan. Every three years they come up with a new plan.

The mystery of the Texas Rangers -- solved!!!!

Phoenix got the better of this deal long term, because Marbury's performance does not live up to his talent.. even though he's very talented and his high points have been high. Phoenix now has more young players, draft picks, and money to pay them. New York has... Steph. And some overpaid fools like Houston, and whatever bag of beans Isiah can get for KVH.

But at a certain point you have to quit reloading for the future and start playing for the present. THAT is the problem I have with the trade from the perspective of Phoenix.

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Ugh...

I quit trying!

Now you're learning. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 05:10 PM
But at a certain point you have to quit reloading for the future and start playing for the present. THAT is the problem I have with the trade from the perspective of Phoenix.

I think that's true, but I also think Colangelo had figured out that they weren't gonna get it done with what they had. So he kept the two talented young forwards and swapped Marbury for a chance at a better team in the near future.

Sure, Lampe and Vujacic (sp?) might not pan out. The Suns might not get good players with the first round picks they received. Then again, they might.

I remember a lot of people arguing around this time last year that we might as well fire Don Nelson because we knew that we weren't going to win a title with him. To hell with the fact that a better, more suitable coach wasn't necessarily available as a replacement. We >>might<< win a title with Donnie, or JVG, or whoever else. We weren't going to win one with Don. Or so the argument went.

I think that logic applies here. Better to trade for the possibility of winning it all than play out the string knowing you won't.

Max Power
01-05-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

Max, we won't know the answer to your question for a few years. The Suns could get a couple of guys with as much (or more) talent than Marbury.

Or they could get squat - I prefer the bird in the hand

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

Max, we won't know the answer to your question for a few years. The Suns could get a couple of guys with as much (or more) talent than Marbury.

Or they could get squat - I prefer the bird in the hand

What if you're reasonably certain the bird in the hand isn't going to be good enough to get you where you want to go?

Then, I guess you reach for the birds in the bush.

Bayliss
01-05-2004, 05:14 PM
I think that logic applies here. Better to trade for the possibility of winning it all than play out the string knowing you won't.

D@mn. That's the best statement I've seen since Dooby's statement about Nellie's "underachieving/overachieving."

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
Ugh...

I quit trying!

Now you're learning. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

I didnt quit on your account KG... I posted that in regards to what Bayliss just said!!!

You dont win that easily! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Max Power
01-05-2004, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

And my opinion of the trade? The team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. Did the Suns get anyone with as much talent as Marbury? All the Suns got was cap space and prospects.

Max, we won't know the answer to your question for a few years. The Suns could get a couple of guys with as much (or more) talent than Marbury.

Or they could get squat - I prefer the bird in the hand

What if you're reasonably certain the bird in the hand isn't going to be good enough to get you where you want to go?

Then, I guess you reach for the birds in the bush.

This is the same team that 6 months ago was a rising force in the West - they gave the Spurs everything they could handle in the playoffs and then some. I just think it is a little early to give up on that team - it sounds like a kneejerk move. Actually it sounds like a move the Clips would make but I'm trying to give Phoenix the benefit of the doubt.

Male30Dan
01-05-2004, 05:21 PM
And regarding thinking that Houston has no talents besides offense and that Wesley and Snow are better and are players you would rather on your team... I simply say OK!!! I will let you have those fillers and I will take the guy with one of the sweetest shooting touches in the entire NBA... And if you check the stats, you will see he averages almost one steal per game, which is not far behind either Snow or Wesley... I know if I had the game on the line, I would rather have Houston throwing up the shot for my team than Wesley or Snow!!!

Eh well, agree to disagree and all that goes with it! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Walkerforthree
01-05-2004, 05:23 PM
You got to hate those 20/10 games Keith keeps churning out lately

kg_veteran
01-05-2004, 05:23 PM
This is the same team that 6 months ago was a rising force in the West - they gave the Spurs everything they could handle in the playoffs and then some. I just think it is a little early to give up on that team - it sounds like a kneejerk move. Actually it sounds like a move the Clips would make but I'm trying to give Phoenix the benefit of the doubt.

It might be a knee-jerk move. But it appears that Colangelo felt that his team was going to have a difficult time penetrating the upper echelon in the West with Marbury at the helm.

Jeremiah
01-05-2004, 06:26 PM
I like the trade for the NYK. After some thought, I like the trade for the Suns. As the Madape has pointed out, the Suns are pretty darn decent at drafting players. I like their chances at securing good players with those draft picks. They might not be superstars, but I would not be surprised if one of them turned out to be a star. They also have a budding superstar in Amare, and a star in the Matrix that should be able to carry them.


As for the knicks, I like it because I like to win now. Banking on the future is good strategy too, but they do have a good prospect there that has a good low post game - Sweetney. He'll be starting and producing next year, and the presence of Starbury should help him get good touches in his limited minutes. Starbury will help the knicks win now, and will propel them into the playoffs. He can win a few games by himself, especially out East where the middle is soft as a twinkie.

I like it for the NBA as well. It will spark a rivalry between the nets and the knicks that will have some meaning. It gives the east another star on a team that is struggling.

I like the trade, and I think that both teams will get what they want out of it.

MavsFanFinley
01-05-2004, 07:52 PM
Just heard about this...

Wow, the Suns got a sweet deal. Not sure what the Knicks were thinking.

WayOutWest
01-05-2004, 10:37 PM
Just a thought:

Do the Suns have Kobe in their eyes? Stephon is not that old and I doubt the Suns going to find someone in the draft as good as him with NY's picks so why trade him for damaged goods, "potential" rookies and thrid string point guards? It almost seems like the Suns intent in this trade was to get under the cap, according to Aldrige, as much as 20 million under the cap. The Suns can now make a legitimate play for Kobe. They've got a young team that's built more to Kobe style of open court play. The Sun players can run and would thrive in an uptempo offense since they don't yet have a legit low post threat, Amare is getting there but not yet. Kobe would be "the man" with great supporting cast talent in Matrix, Amare and Johnson. Here's where it becomes a stretch or the closer depending on how you look at it. Suns coach Mike D'Antoni is Kobe's idol, he's the reason he wears number 8 and when Kobe says he wants to "be like Mike", he's NOT talking about Micheal Jordan, he's talking about Italian league legend Mikd D'Antoni (he said so in Sports Illustrated).

Chicago JK
01-05-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by: WayOutWest
Just a thought:

Do the Suns have Kobe in their eyes? Stephon is not that old and I doubt the Suns going to find someone in the draft as good as him with NY's picks so why trade him for damaged goods, "potential" rookies and thrid string point guards? It almost seems like the Suns intent in this trade was to get under the cap, according to Aldrige, as much as 20 million under the cap. The Suns can now make a legitimate play for Kobe. They've got a young team that's built more to Kobe style of open court play. The Sun players can run and would thrive in an uptempo offense since they don't yet have a legit low post threat, Amare is getting there but not yet. Kobe would be "the man" with great supporting cast talent in Matrix, Amare and Johnson. Here's where it becomes a stretch or the closer depending on how you look at it. Suns coach Mike D'Antoni is Kobe's idol, he's the reason he wears number 8 and when Kobe says he wants to "be like Mike", he's NOT talking about Micheal Jordan, he's talking about Italian league legend Mikd D'Antoni (he said so in Sports Illustrated).

Yep I mentioned it earlier. Kobe is definately a target if he is cleared of his charges. Jerry C is a smart dude and the cap room was created because they have someone in mind.

It isn't Rasheed. Q Richardson will be a restricted fa and the Clips will keep him. Kobe is the guy if he is cleared of all charges.