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View Full Version : Dallas/Indy trade that might make some sense...


kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 02:37 PM
Dallas trades Jamison
Dallas receives Harrington and Pollard

New lineup:

Nowitzki - Bradley - Pollard
Walker - Fortson
Howard - Harrington
Finley - Daniels
Nash - Best

Likely rotation: Nowitzki, Pollard, Walker, Harrington, Howard in the frontcourt; Nash, Finley, Howard, Best in the backcourt

ddh33
01-06-2004, 02:54 PM
I think this is an example of a trade that helps the Mavs, but one that management would probably rather not make. Although we give the more talented player, we gain guys who may be better fits.

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 03:16 PM
Here's a lesser deal that still makes sense for both teams:

Dallas trades: SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.2 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 13.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.4 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

Tack this one on with the Portland deal I suggested, and you're looking at this:

Davis - Pollard - Bradley - Stepania
Nowitzki - Fortson
Jamison - Howard
Finley - Patterson
Nash - Tinsley

Likely rotation:

Davis 25 - Pollard/Bradley 23
Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
Jamison 20 - Howard 28
Finley 35 - Patterson 13
Nash 32 - Tinsley 16

Man, I REALLY like this team.

Scorers - Nowitzki, Nash, Jamison, Finley
Defenders - Davis, Pollard, Bradley, Howard, Patterson
Rebounders - Nowitzki, Davis, Pollard, Bradley, Howard
Stars - Nowitzki, Finley, Nash, Jamison
Role players - Davis, Pollard, Bradley, Howard, Patterson, Tinsley

Makes sense to me.

ddh33
01-06-2004, 03:22 PM
I pretty much like all three of those suggestions. I just don't think management is going to take a perceived step back this season. Although I think we need more role-playing lunchpail type warriors on this team, I don't think we're going to get them right now. And that's a shame too because I don't think this team can challenge as it's currently put together. All of the guys mentioned in your trades are players who bring a kind of toughness and intenisty that is sorely lacking right now, but I'm starting to think this team will be given the whole season.

DNNF
01-06-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Dallas trades Jamison
Dallas receives Harrington and Pollard

New lineup:

Nowitzki - Bradley - Pollard
Walker - Fortson
Howard - Harrington
Finley - Daniels
Nash - Best

Likely rotation: Nowitzki, Pollard, Walker, Harrington, Howard in the frontcourt; Nash, Finley, Howard, Best in the backcourt

This trade looked pretty good. However, the salary between these 3 players are not equal. Harrington and Pollard make combined of $10 mil. Walker is $13 mil. We might want to throw Najera or Travis Best in the mix.

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by: ddh33
I pretty much like all three of those suggestions. I just don't think management is going to take a perceived step back this season. Although I think we need more role-playing lunchpail type warriors on this team, I don't think we're going to get them right now. And that's a shame too because I don't think this team can challenge as it's currently put together. All of the guys mentioned in your trades are players who bring a kind of toughness and intenisty that is sorely lacking right now, but I'm starting to think this team will be given the whole season.

I can guarantee you one thing:

If the Mavericks truly make a trade that helps the team, it will be the first trade of the Cuban era that they didn't win outright "on paper".

Then again, that is what is necessary at this point.

Not the flashy trade to acquire yet another "star" and grab headlines on ESPN.

A trade to acquire guys that fit in the holes.

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by: DNNF

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Dallas trades Jamison
Dallas receives Harrington and Pollard

New lineup:

Nowitzki - Bradley - Pollard
Walker - Fortson
Howard - Harrington
Finley - Daniels
Nash - Best

Likely rotation: Nowitzki, Pollard, Walker, Harrington, Howard in the frontcourt; Nash, Finley, Howard, Best in the backcourt

This trade looked pretty good. However, the salary between these 3 players are not equal. Harrington and Pollard make combined of $10 mil. Walker is $13 mil. We might want to throw Najera or Travis Best in the mix.

Walker's not in this potential trade.

seelenjaeger
01-06-2004, 04:01 PM
Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.2 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 13.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Jeff Foster (6.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and -4.3 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Jeff Foster (6.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.9 minutes)
Indiana receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
PG Travis Best (3.2 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.4 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +4.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.2 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 13.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Jeff Foster (6.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and -4.3 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Jeff Foster (6.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 22.9 minutes)
Indiana receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
PG Travis Best (3.2 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 29 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.4 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +4.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Roster after this trade...

Foster - Bradley
Nowitzki - Croshere
Jamison - Harrington
Finley - Howard
Nash - Daniels

This one leaves you with a logjam of small forwards (Jamison, Harrington, Croshere, Howard) and no backup PG unless you think Nellie's gonna trust Daniels.

seelenjaeger
01-06-2004, 04:25 PM
Well, sign Charlie Ward and you go with


Foster, Bradley, Fortson
Nowitzki, Harrington
Jamison, Croshere, Najera
Finley, Howard, TaW
Nash, Ward, Daniels, Stefansson

I could live with that actually, though I wouldnt want to part with Walker (prolly the only one on this board it seems).

Evilmav2
01-06-2004, 04:26 PM
I would love to see that trade happen Seelen, but somehow I just don't see Donnie Walsch being very interested.
This deal would replace the Pacers current glut of talented forwards with a glut of average to flawed PG's (Anderson, Johnson, Tinsley, Delk, Best) without any one of the new aquistions representing the kind of substantial backcourt help that Walsch would covet, and I just don't see him clambering to replace the burgeoning game of young Harrington (who will be their starter next year, after BYCP Artest is traded this Summer) with the older and sometimes erratic Walker.

The only way I see us being able to pry Harrington away from the Pacers would be in a deal that involved Nash (according to the Indy-Star, the deal-breaker in our attempted aquisition of Brad Miller last Summer), and thus as much as I would love to see us get a Foster or a Harrington, I find it somewhat unlikely. Of course, if the Pacers stage another late-season swoon, a deal like this might be more likely, but unfortunately I think Carlisle will probably keep the Pacers on an even keel for the remainder of the season...

Jamisonite
01-06-2004, 04:28 PM
Indiana loves Foster...hes getting the majority of the time at the 5 and ur proposed trade gives them no 5 in return. no way they take this deal

seelenjaeger
01-06-2004, 04:31 PM
Well, the reason why I think this deal is not that far off the Indy plans is the contracts.

They get rid of 2 long-termers in Croshere and Foster (though Foster is more of a bargain than a problem) and get SOME help on the Point Guard situation aswell as a guy to be kinda deadly in a combo with Jermaine OŽNeal.

I seriously doubt Carlisle would touch any of our Offense-Only players, and all Walker, Delk and Best can provide -some- defense.

I wouldnt do this trade aswell if I were Welsh, but weirder things happened.

Jamisonite
01-06-2004, 04:47 PM
the last thing they need is PG help...they got 3 capable PGs right now in Kenny Anderson, Tinsley and Anthony Johnson

grbh
01-06-2004, 05:03 PM
I just realized what a black hole Delk has been this year. He is only shooting 38.5% from the field. On top of that he is only averaging .8 dimes a game. Terrible.

Granted he plays some 2 for this team, but lets compare him to other PGs in the league. Nobody averages fewer assists per 48 than Delk. It isn't like the guy doesn't have any options either. Call him a 1, call him a 2, but 2.3 assists per 48 is miserable for any guard. Hell it's pretty crumby for a center.

LRB
01-06-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Here's a lesser deal that still makes sense for both teams:

Dallas trades: SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.2 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 13.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.4 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and +1.1 apg.

Tack this one on with the Portland deal I suggested, and you're looking at this:

Davis - Pollard - Bradley - Stepania
Nowitzki - Fortson
Jamison - Howard
Finley - Patterson
Nash - Tinsley

Likely rotation:

Davis 25 - Pollard/Bradley 23
Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
Jamison 20 - Howard 28
Finley 35 - Patterson 13
Nash 32 - Tinsley 16

Man, I REALLY like this team.

Scorers - Nowitzki, Nash, Jamison, Finley
Defenders - Davis, Pollard, Bradley, Howard, Patterson
Rebounders - Nowitzki, Davis, Pollard, Bradley, Howard
Stars - Nowitzki, Finley, Nash, Jamison
Role players - Davis, Pollard, Bradley, Howard, Patterson, Tinsley

Makes sense to me.


KG if we would get this team with both of your proposed trades I'd flip for joy. We could afford to have Shawn out most of the year without hurting much. We'd be much better balanced as a team and have a lot of toughness added. We'd be even better rebounding and I'm sure we could easily make up any scoring we lost. I just don't see Nellie signing off on these trades. i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif

Murphy3
01-06-2004, 07:28 PM
You're right KG. The Mavs are going to have to 'lose the trade on paper' in all likeliness to advance this team. They're going to have to give up a scorer in order to add players that do some of the other duties in which the Mavs are lacking.

The mavs need to find a team that's lacking at the forward spot and that has a banger to spare...any takers?

Hitman
01-06-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

If the Mavericks truly make a trade that helps the team, it will be the first trade of the Cuban era that they didn't win outright "on paper".



Not the flashy trade to acquire yet another "star" and grab headlines on ESPN.

A trade to acquire guys that fit in the holes.

This is so true. The Mavs need role players who want to play defense and can knock down the open shot if need be. That is really all they needed to add to the "Big 3".

madape
01-06-2004, 10:45 PM
Remember that in free agency you don't have to give up anything to aquire someone to help you. We have failed in this area many times before, but we should have no problem finding guys to fill the holes next summer for the mid-level exception or less. If we can just be a little patient, we can surround our big five with some really good role-players. We have five guys on this team who will deliver all-star level production for years to come. No other team in the league can say that. It's absolutely ridiculous that we have so much talent on this team. In my opinion there is no reason to throw it all away right now for some mediocre junk role player, when in half a year we can address all of our needs without losing anyone. This obsession with trades is a little short sighted in my opinion.

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 11:11 PM
We have failed in this area many times before, but we should have no problem finding guys to fill the holes next summer for the mid-level exception or less. If we can just be a little patient, we can surround our big five with some really good role-players. We have five guys on this team who will deliver all-star level production for years to come. No other team in the league can say that. It's absolutely ridiculous that we have so much talent on this team. In my opinion there is no reason to throw it all away right now for some mediocre junk role player, when in half a year we can address all of our needs without losing anyone. This obsession with trades is a little short sighted in my opinion.

Name the last impact free agent the Mavericks signed other than re-signing their own player (e.g. LaFrentz).

I can't even name ONE.

If they can do what they've never done before, then I agree. There will be free agents on the market that can help.

Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

MightyToine
01-06-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Remember that in free agency you don't have to give up anything to aquire someone to help you. We have failed in this area many times before, but we should have no problem finding guys to fill the holes next summer for the mid-level exception or less. If we can just be a little patient, we can surround our big five with some really good role-players. We have five guys on this team who will deliver all-star level production for years to come. No other team in the league can say that. It's absolutely ridiculous that we have so much talent on this team. In my opinion there is no reason to throw it all away right now for some mediocre junk role player, when in half a year we can address all of our needs without losing anyone. This obsession with trades is a little short sighted in my opinion.


GREAT POST!

Couldn't agree more, madape. Have this current team play the season out and let the chips fall where they may. Then, in the offseason, the Mavs make their move for FA help... i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

Chicago JK
01-06-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Remember that in free agency you don't have to give up anything to aquire someone to help you. We have failed in this area many times before, but we should have no problem finding guys to fill the holes next summer for the mid-level exception or less. If we can just be a little patient, we can surround our big five with some really good role-players. We have five guys on this team who will deliver all-star level production for years to come. No other team in the league can say that. It's absolutely ridiculous that we have so much talent on this team. In my opinion there is no reason to throw it all away right now for some mediocre junk role player, when in half a year we can address all of our needs without losing anyone. This obsession with trades is a little short sighted in my opinion.

Madape,
You hit the nail in the head. YOu can find role players for the MLE or less with no problem. They are not the sexy signings but they are out there. I can name you 20 guys who have signed over the past 3 years for low dollars who would be perfect here. I could also list around 10 big guys who slipped to the late first/early second who can be effective role players for playoff teams. These are the type of players Donnie has to prove he can find.

Dirkenstien
01-07-2004, 04:02 AM
I'd do the Dallas/ Indy trade in a heartbeat. I would love to have Pollard on this team and I like J Tinsley as compensation for what we'd be giving up.