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V
01-06-2004, 01:38 PM
Portland: Players think trades necessary

The Blazers are so frustrated with their season thus far that several are suggesting the team make trades, the Jan. 6 Portland Tribune reports. "I hate to say this, but maybe this is a bad mix of players," guard Damon Stoudamire said. "Right now, man, this is frustrating. This is the most frustrated I've been in the NBA." Said reserve Ruben Patterson, angered by his lack of consistent playing time: "I just want to go out there and be Ruben Patterson," he says. "If I get 18 or 20 shots, I would average 20 points. I can score just like anybody else can." Forward/center Dale Davis said he intends to talk to coach Mo Cheeks about his role and might ask management to include him in a trade, the Tribune reported.

LINK TO FULL STORY (http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=21960)

LINK TO RASHEED WALLACE THREAD (http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=14165&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1)

LINK TO "AROUND THE NBA" DISCUSSION (http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=14491)

This thread is available to discuss Portland players & potential trades to Dallas.

ddh33
01-06-2004, 01:57 PM
I think Portland is nearing the point of being past particular. Some big changes need to come soon, although I still think they may try to ride out this season. They're certainly one of the biggest possible Mav suitors, but I think they'll need to lower their asking price for their unhappy, underacheiving players.

Big Boy Laroux
01-06-2004, 02:01 PM
well, i wouldn;t mind having dale davis aboard... just so he and shawn can fight in practice. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

all kidding aside, what's his salary? and i don't want to give up anything big.

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 02:06 PM
This trade makes some sense to me...

Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
SG Ruben Patterson (6.7 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 22.4 minutes)
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -8.0 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and -2.4 apg.

Portland trades: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
SG Ruben Patterson (6.7 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 22.4 minutes)
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Portland receives: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
Change in team outlook: +8.0 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and +2.4 apg.

Portland might be interested in this because they get the most talented player in the deal and they aren't really stuck with him for a long time. His expiring contract should have value to them.

New Dallas roster:

Davis - Bradley - Stepania
Nowitzki - Fortson
Jamison - Howard
Finley - Patterson
Nash - Best - Daniels

Likely minutes distribution:

Davis 30 - Bradley/Stepania 18
Nowitzki 38 - Jamison 10
Jamison 20 - Howard 20 - Patterson 8
Finley 35 - Patterson 13
Nash 34 - Best 14

I really like the looks of this team. You've got a bruiser in the middle in Davis, you've got depth at the center position so that Dirk theoretically doesn't have to play a minute at center. You also have the flexibility where if you want to use Dirk at center, you can still throw out lineups like Dirk/Jamison/Patterson/Howard/Nash that aren't complete liabilities defensively.

Mark, are you reading this? Get this done.

Big Boy Laroux
01-06-2004, 02:14 PM
i would jump on that. davis as our starting center, someone that works hard? jamison starting? howard off the bench as 6th man? that is nice.

uberfan
01-06-2004, 02:30 PM
KG--Not too bad. Many people are going to say you can get more for Walker.

There are some positives to consider.

We have all, including Mark Cuban, been wondering what Dale Davis would be like on the Mavs. I think he is a FA next year, this gives us a sneak preview before the offseason and a better chance to retain him if he works out. He is getting up in years, though.

I don't know why we didn't get Stepania in the summer, he wanted to come to Dallas and gives us another rebounder in the middle.

Patterson just one more SG/SF who can defend and score. Easily an upgrade over Delk. He's signed for a few more years in the $5MM range I think so is always a good throw in as a future trade asset, or to be exposed in the expansion draft if he can't fit in here.

OTOH:

Will Davis and Stepania add that much more than N'Diaye or another 10 day guy will bring if Nellie doesn't use any of them? Davis will surely be used some, how much can he still go and how much and when would Nellie use him?

I wish I had the answers to some of these questions before making a definitive comment on this trade suggestion.

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by: uberfan
KG--Not too bad. Many people are going to say you can get more for Walker.

To those people, all I ask is that they tell me who and how.


There are some positives to consider.

We have all, including Mark Cuban, been wondering what Dale Davis would be like on the Mavs. I think he is a FA next year, this gives us a sneak preview before the offseason and a better chance to retain him if he works out. He is getting up in years, though.

Exactly. The Mavs would get an extended "test drive" of Dale Davis before deciding whether to try and retain him in the offseason. If you don't want him back, let him go. Sign Ostertag or another viable FA in his place. On the flipside, if you like him, you don't have to use the MLE to re-sign him.

It's also nice insurance if Shawn really is done for good. If he is, it'd be nice to be able to re-sign Davis and sign Tag as a FA. A Davis/Tag center combo would be pretty nice, IMO.


Patterson just one more SG/SF who can defend and score. Easily an upgrade over Delk. He's signed for a few more years in the $5MM range I think so is always a good throw in as a future trade asset, or to be exposed in the expansion draft if he can't fit in here.

Exactly.


OTOH:

Will Davis and Stepania add that much more than N'Diaye or another 10 day guy will bring if Nellie doesn't use any of them? Davis will surely be used some, how much can he still go and how much and when would Nellie use him?

Nellie won't use Stepania, but he would be ridiculed if he didn't use Davis.

Mavs Rule
01-06-2004, 02:55 PM
KG, I like this trade. Davis gives us some toughness inside that we need. It allows Dirk to play exclusively at the 4, where he will rule! It gets rid of the whole point forward concept which is a failure in my view. It concentrates on the big three on offense again. It gives us a better bench and more depth. KG, your minutes distribution looks excellent. And Jamison gets to start, allowing him to get his rhythm back. He just fits in very well with the big three, complimenting them instead of taking them out of their game. Mark, get this done pronto!

uberfan
01-06-2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
KG, I like this trade. Davis gives us some toughness inside that we need. It allows Dirk to play exclusively at the 4, where he will rule! It gets rid of the whole point forward concept which is a failure in my view. It concentrates on the big three on offense again. It gives us a better bench and more depth. KG, your minutes distribution looks excellent. And Jamison gets to start, allowing him to get his rhythm back. He just fits in very well with the big three, complimenting them instead of taking them out of their game. Mark, get this done pronto!

I totally agree that Jamison just seems to flow better with the Big 3 in transition.

V
01-06-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
KG, I like this trade. Davis gives us some toughness inside that we need. It allows Dirk to play exclusively at the 4, where he will rule! It gets rid of the whole point forward concept which is a failure in my view. It concentrates on the big three on offense again. It gives us a better bench and more depth. KG, your minutes distribution looks excellent. And Jamison gets to start, allowing him to get his rhythm back. He just fits in very well with the big three, complimenting them instead of taking them out of their game. Mark, get this done pronto!

Davis is dealing with back spasms, but even when he's healthy, Cheeks rarely uses him at crunch time with the outcome still in balance.

Portland needs an interior presence.

Portland needs defensive help.

Portland needs shotblocking.

Portland already has Dale Davis and he doesn't even play during crunch time.

How is Dale Davis going to help the Mavs improve their most glaring weaknesses i.e. inside toughness, defense, shotblocking??

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 03:10 PM
V, perhaps the problem is Cheeks.

I think Davis is a tough guy who defends well inside. He seems to me like a great fit.

Jamisonite
01-06-2004, 03:18 PM
What do u think about this one

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -0.9 ppg, -3.0 rpg, and -2.1 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Indiana receives: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31 games)
PG Jeff McInnis (12.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.6 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.9 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
PG Jeff McInnis (12.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.0 minutes)
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Portland receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 36 games)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 26 games)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 11 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.8 ppg, +5.5 rpg, and +1.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Our new Rotation

Bradley/Stephania/Fortson
Dirk/Jamison/Wallace
Wallace/Jamison/Howard
Fin/Howard
Nash/Best or Delk

or (knowing Nellie)

Dirk/Bradley/Stepania/Fortson
Wallace/Dirk/Jamison/Fortson
Jamison/Howard
Fin/ Howard/Delk
Nash/Best/Delk

kg_veteran
01-06-2004, 03:22 PM
Jamisonite - I don't like it from a Dallas perspective. Nowitzki is still the center.

V
01-06-2004, 03:24 PM
Could be, kg...

Davis did put up a season-high 14 boards and added eight points in 40 minutes during Portland's 112-108 win over the Lakers.

I want to do some more research before I'm convinced. Has anyone been paying special attention to Davis lately? I know he played just four minutes on December 28 after straining his back in Portland's 86-74 loss to Cleveland.... but I have not been watching him closely.

(Since we've had all this trade talk lately I'm keyed on Wallace when I watch Portland.)

Jamisonite
01-06-2004, 03:30 PM
ya KG i dont like Dirk at the center either but its just an idea...i tried to send Pollard our way but couldnt find a REASONABLE way to do it

V
01-06-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
What do u think about this one

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -0.9 ppg, -3.0 rpg, and -2.1 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Indiana receives: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31 games)
PG Jeff McInnis (12.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.6 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: -1.9 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
PG Jeff McInnis (12.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 5.6 apg in 33.0 minutes)
C Vladimir Stepania (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 apg in 9.6 minutes)
Portland receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 36 games)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 26 games)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 11 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.8 ppg, +5.5 rpg, and +1.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Our new Rotation

Bradley/Stephania/Fortson
Dirk/Jamison/Wallace
Wallace/Jamison/Howard
Fin/Howard
Nash/Best or Delk

or (knowing Nellie)

Dirk/Bradley/Stepania/Fortson
Wallace/Dirk/Jamison/Fortson
Jamison/Howard
Fin/ Howard/Delk
Nash/Best/Delk

Whoa, shocker! Jamisonite, aren't you firmly planted in the Wallace = Cancer camp? What do you think about this trade?

This deal improves the defense somewhat but I think it would be very dirsruptive to what Nelly is trying to do. Maybe I like this deal a little more if you start Howard at the SF.... that way you have two great defenders on the floor Wallace & Howard plus a good defender in Finley.

Dirk & Wallace probably split time at the five ... and leave 12-14 minutes for Bradley. Overall not bad...

I would be much more inclined to do this deal with Jamison though.

Jamisonite
01-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -9.8 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and -0.2 apg.

Portland trades: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
Portland receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 36 games)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 36 games)
Change in team outlook: +11.9 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +3.2 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Indiana receives: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.1 ppg, -5.7 rpg, and -3.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

This keeps Dirk at the 4 KGi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

LRB
01-06-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -9.8 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and -0.2 apg.

Portland trades: C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
Portland receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 36 games)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 36 games)
Change in team outlook: +11.9 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +3.2 apg.

Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Al Harrington (12.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 30.6 minutes)
C Scot Pollard (1.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 10.8 minutes)
PG Jamaal Tinsley (5.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 21.1 minutes)
Indiana receives: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 32 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.1 ppg, -5.7 rpg, and -3.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

This keeps Dirk at the 4 KGi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

I'd take this or KG's orginal tade. Either one goes a long way towards addressing our needs. And we get rid of horrid 3pt shooter walker.

V
01-08-2004, 01:10 AM
Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.6 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (2.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.1 apg in 9.8 minutes)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, -0.4 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.8 apg in 39.0 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
Portland receives: PF Antoine Walker (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (17.0 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 5.0 apg in 33 games)
C Shawn Bradley (2.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.1 apg in 22 games)
PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.7 ppg, +0.4 rpg, and +1.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

MikeB
01-08-2004, 01:20 AM
The guys that I hear Portland is really trying to move are Reuben Patterson, Derrick Anderson, and possibly Dale Davis.

How about this trade:

Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.6 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
SF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 13.7 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (15.4 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 29.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Ruben Patterson (6.7 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 22.4 minutes)
SG Derek Anderson (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -11.1 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and +0.7 apg.

Portland trades: SG Ruben Patterson (6.7 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 22.4 minutes)
SG Derek Anderson (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.0 minutes)
C Dale Davis (6.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.3 minutes)
Portland receives: PG Tony Delk (6.2 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
SF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (3.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (15.4 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 33 games)
Change in team outlook: +11.1 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and -0.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED