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View Full Version : Barkley says Kerilenko is best foreign player in NBA


Dirkenstien
01-09-2004, 12:57 AM
Tonight on TNT Chuck stated that Kerilenko is the best foreign basketball player in the NBA.

Barkley's rankings

1) Kerilenko
2) Ginobili
3)Peja
4) Dirk
5) Pau Gasol

thoughts?..?

NBAFan7
01-09-2004, 01:01 AM
Take out manu and I don't se how anyone could argue with him. Its right on the money IMO, and this tells you how people view Dirk right now. Kenny said Peja was better too, and I agree. As of right now, I would rank them like this.

Peja
AK47
Dirk

No debating that IMO.

Drbio
01-09-2004, 01:44 AM
THIS JUST IN!!!!!!!!

Barkley doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. More at ten.

OutletPass
01-09-2004, 01:50 AM
If I was a GM and starting a team of non-Continental USA born players...

I'd start with :
1) TD
2) Yao
3) Dirk
4) Peja
5) AK47
6) Manu
7) Parker
8) Gasol
9) Eddie
10) Rhylan...the Moon.
11) Sike...Mars
12) Lisa leslie...a Venutian.

grndmstr_c
01-09-2004, 01:59 AM
Barkley's a goob. Kirilenko's great, and very multidimensional, but Dirk was the best player on a team that made it to the WCF's last year. AK has yet to approach that distinction. Best he can do is major bench contributor on a first round loser.

Ginobili? What? Talent galore, but I don't even think he's as good as Finley at this point, and nobody in their right mind would take Fin over Dirk.

Peja has probably played the best THIS YEAR of any of the foreign players, and give him kudos for that. The guy is one hell of a shooter, one of the few guys that may be better than Dirk in that respect, but he's only average as a passer, defender, and rebounder, whereas Dirk is a top notch rebounder on the defensive glass, and IMO is better at creating his own shot; this without being behind Peja in the other categories.

Rod1975
01-09-2004, 04:41 AM
This is stupid, if Dirk played for the Wiz or the Hawks and was averaging 28 points, 12 boards, 3 asts, 1 block, and 1 steal a game in the east, (and he easily could) then would he finally get the respect he deserves?

Peja is playing well, but there is no way you can make an intelligent case to convince me that AK47 is a better player than Dirk.

Barkley is a mental midget. (no offense to any little people out there)

Shaq Attack2
01-09-2004, 05:57 AM
Dirk hasn't played better than AK47 this year mostly due to injuries. But still, AK47 is 100 times the defender Dirk is and can rebound even better than Dirk can. He can't shoot or score the way Dirk can, but that doesn't give him a distinct edge this year.

I'd like to see how much Dirk improves this year before I say AK47 isn't as good as him.

Bayliss
01-09-2004, 07:56 AM
But still, AK47 is 100 times the defender Dirk is and can rebound even better than Dirk can.

Care to edit the "best rebounder" part? Dirk after having a horrible start is outrebounding him by nearly a full board.

As for Barkley, he has never given any credit to Dirk so why start now?

Male30Dan
01-09-2004, 09:12 AM
This year, if I had to rank the best foreign basketball players, (Euros only, as otherwise the Duncans and Nashs of the world would be in here), in the NBA based on their current seasons, the top-5 list would be:

1) Peja - This guy is the single BEST shooter in the entire NBA!!! For his size, he needs more rebounds, and for the amount of touches he gets per game, he should have more assists!
2) AK47 - An athletic freak... He has had a TERRIFIC year... Very versatile and he is starting to demand respect... Unable to be intimidated, and for his size, puts up great blocks, steals and rebounding numbers!
3) Dirk - The best player on this list, but had a terrible 1/4 of this year... He is coming around, and could wind up number one by the seasons' end!!! Best rebounding foreigner, and has an incredible offensive game trailing only Peja!!! He will also get you a steal and block per game!
4) Gasol - A great talent! He is a very effective low post scorer. Has descent rebounding numbers when compared to minutes played. He will get you close to a couple blocks a game, but his defensive intensity, (like Dirk), needs to improve.
5) Ginobili - Fearless gritty competitor that really meshes good with Duncan... Great quick defensive stopper... Numbers going down after Duncan came back, but still an overall good year!

My opinion of the top-5 by year end!

1) Peja
2) Dirk
3) Gasol
4) AK47
5) Ginobili

I think overall, Dirk is a better player than Peja, but due to Webber being out for possibly the entire year, I think that Peja will have the better year stat-wise.

DNNF
01-09-2004, 09:51 AM
Barkley is still mad becaused Dirk called him a moron last year. Let it go already, fatass. You are what you are.

LRB
01-09-2004, 10:42 AM
My list for the top 5 dumbasses in announcing

1. Barkley
2. Barkley
3. Walton
4. Barkley
5. Walton

i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Max Power
01-09-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by: Bayliss
As for Barkley, he has never given any credit to Dirk so why start now?

I seem to remember Barkley saying that Dirk was robbed the year Dirk didn't make the All Star team. In fact Barkley said a lot of nice things about Dirk back then.

Male30Dan
01-09-2004, 10:46 AM
Im sure you all have, but just in case you haven't I thought I would post the best "Barkley quotes" link on the web...

Barkley Quotes!!! (http://www.clintcam.com/barkley/)

Some of this is classic stuff!

Bayliss
01-09-2004, 10:47 AM
I agree with other posters in that Peja and Kirilenko are having better years than Dirk. But just because a couple are having a better year than Dirk so far does not mean they are the "best" European. It reminds of when Apollo Creed once told Rocky: "You fight great, but I'm a great fighter." Dirk will turn it around at some point, and when he does, he will be the best European for this season.

Something else to keep in mind: efficiency. Efficiency might not be the end all stat but it is very telling on how a player truly has been. Last year Dirk had an efficiency of 27.

Peja this year: 22.88
AK this year: 22.03
Gasol this year: 18.82
Ginobili this year: 15.85
Dirk this year: 21.55

So Dirk once again is having the worst year of his career and his efficiency rating is 1(!) point lower than Peja's and a 1/2 point lower than AK. Give Dirk some more time I wouldn't be surprised if is efficienmcy rises to somewhere around 26-27 again. Will the other Euro's be that high? I seriously doubt it.

As for Barkley, he always says the best player he played against was Kevin McHale. How he could possibly say that I don't know. McHale was the greatest low post player ever and a good defender but Barkley played against the greatest small forward ever (Bird) and the greatest shooting guard ever (Jordan). And not to mention he played against perhaps the greatest power forward of all-time in Malone and the greatest point guard ever in Magic. So Barkley obviously doesn't base his opinion on production, stats, etc. He just goes on gut feeling. Which a lot of the time the feeling he has in his gut is just indigestion.

kg_veteran
01-09-2004, 11:03 AM
Player comparisons like this get tiring. Who cares what Barkley thinks? Who needs his respect?

Chicago JK
01-09-2004, 12:43 PM
AK47 has a very, very, very bright future and I would vote him to the all star game this year with the impact he has provided to Utah this year.

With that being said if Utah called an offered me AK47 for Dirk....all they would hear is a big laugh and click on the other line. Dirk isn't playing as well this year but he isn't going anywhere. I have always ranked dirk behind TD and Garnett. Both of those guys deserve all the pub they get but Dirk is third on that list ahead of CWebb and Jermaine O'neals of the world at PF. Plus Dirk has proven that he has played his best ball in the playoffs.

MightyToine
01-09-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by: DNNF
Barkley is still mad becaused Dirk called him a moron last year. Let it go already, fatass. You are what you are.


You are what you eat as well! Barkley's one FUGLY MOFO! i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Nash13
01-09-2004, 01:58 PM
Saying Kirelinko and/or Peja is better than Dirk is just stupid, and if you believe it, then you're sipping on the wrong Kool Aid.

Peja's Stats

Career: 17.4ppg 4.8rpg 2.0apg 1.02spg .14bpg 1.6tpg
Playoff: 16.7ppg 5.8rpg 1.2apg .68spg .20bpg 1.5tpg

Kirilenko's Stats

Career: 12.2ppg 5.6rpg 1.7apg 1.57spg 2.19bpg 1.77tpg
Playoff: 10.3ppg 4.3rpg 1.2apg 1.11spg 2.22bpg 1.33tpg

Dirk's Stats

Career: 20.1ppg 8.2rpg 2.3apg .99spg .98bpg 1.83tpg
Playoff: 25.5ppg 10.9rpg 2.0apg 1.37spg .86bpg 2.17tpg

Dirk's a better scorer, rebounder, passer, and blocker than Peja. He's a better scorer, rebounder, and passer than Kirilenko in the regular season.

He's better in ever stat in the playoffs than Peja, and only trails Kirilenko in blocking.

You can argue between Peja and Kirilenko who's second best, but to say they are better is not accurate.

Drbio
01-09-2004, 02:11 PM
Barkley blows chunks......










The sad thing.....Chunks is my dog. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Dirkenstien
01-09-2004, 02:44 PM
I agree that AK has an extremely bright future and is having a great year but to claim him the best european in the league as of right now is just absurd. However, considering that Barkley is making his assumption based on that which has occured so far this year I can see how he can rank Dirk so low and Kerilenko so high.

Kerilenko is a grunge type of player that doesnt need to score to help his team..he plays tremendously tough defense and is extremely athletic however, his shot isnt all there just yet. He still has a lot of room to improve on this and until he does so it seems unjust to crown him as the best player from Europe.

Barkley likes to rank players not only on their offensive contributions but their defensive ones as well, however it seems as though his eyes may be set more on the overall potential of players moreso than where the players are right now in terms of ability and skill.

Barkley is correct in the assumption that Kerilenko is one heck of a player that shows great signs of only getting better, however "best european in the league right now" may just be a quote we'll have to deem a foreshadowing statement from someone who is knows for his quick words and poor logic. Charles you may have spoken to soon.

Hitman
01-09-2004, 06:48 PM
Barkley obviously harbors a grudge against Dirk, and that grudge was significantly heightened with Dirk's "What a moron" quote back in the playoffs.

I am so thankful that I now play in a Thursday night basketball league and I no longer have to listen to his senseless dribble.

Saying that Manu Ginobolli is better than Dirk Nowitkzi is the equivalent of saying Ron Artest is better than Tracy McGrady.

It is completely and utterly stupid, senseless and exposes Charles as the fraud that he is.

Hitman
01-09-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien


Barkley likes to rank players not only on their offensive contributions but their defensive ones as well,


I guess you have studied Barkley's player ranking system in great length.

Kind of ironic considering Barkley was a pretty weak defender himself, and the one team that he played for that had a chance at winning, the 1993 Phoenix Suns...well, they were one of the weakest teams to make the finals....ever.

mavsfanforever
01-09-2004, 07:20 PM
Didn't Dirk call Barkley a morone last season. Funny, but before Dirk called him a morone Dirk was on top of the same list by barkley. And for god sake put Ming's name also in there.

Nash13
01-09-2004, 11:58 PM
I take Barkley as serious as I take Walton. And at least Walton has played for championship teams.

Like i said about Walton, Barkley was hired to entertain not to inform.

Walkerforthree
01-10-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by: Nash13
Saying Kirelinko and/or Peja is better than Dirk is just stupid, and if you believe it, then you're sipping on the wrong Kool Aid.

Peja's Stats

Career: 17.4ppg 4.8rpg 2.0apg 1.02spg .14bpg 1.6tpg
Playoff: 16.7ppg 5.8rpg 1.2apg .68spg .20bpg 1.5tpg

Kirilenko's Stats

Career: 12.2ppg 5.6rpg 1.7apg 1.57spg 2.19bpg 1.77tpg
Playoff: 10.3ppg 4.3rpg 1.2apg 1.11spg 2.22bpg 1.33tpg

Dirk's Stats

Career: 20.1ppg 8.2rpg 2.3apg .99spg .98bpg 1.83tpg
Playoff: 25.5ppg 10.9rpg 2.0apg 1.37spg .86bpg 2.17tpg

Dirk's a better scorer, rebounder, passer, and blocker than Peja. He's a better scorer, rebounder, and passer than Kirilenko in the regular season.

He's better in ever stat in the playoffs than Peja, and only trails Kirilenko in blocking.

You can argue between Peja and Kirilenko who's second best, but to say they are better is not accurate.



No no no Nash, you aren't allowed to use stats!!!!! No fair, no fair. Im a typical dumbass fan, or I am a typical fat piece of trash announcer!!!!!!!! I just want to spew crap out and have NOTHING to back it up!!!!! Sure Peja is 6"10 and can't get 6 rpg, sure he can't get 2.5 assist per game, sure he can only get 5, FIVE BLOCKS! So what? Defense doesn't matter.........unless you are Dirk, opps, I mean Irk, man he sucks. Those 1.20 bpg don't count, nor the 1 spg or 7 defensive boards, 8.7 total.

Sure, AK can't score 17 ppg on a offensive challened Utah team, but its ok, he can board better then Dirk. Wait, you mean DIRK IS AVERAGING MORE RPG THEN AK47 THIS YEAR AND FOR HIS CAREER? Doesn't matter, AK is still obviously a better rebounder, stats don't matter, right?

Manu is way better then Dirk, he shoots under 40%, smoke that Irk, haha! Manu can score 14 pgg, 6 rpg and 4 aspg while being only the SECOND option behind TD and getting to play with TD. Dirk is just some overated soft bum, he's never scored 25 ppg or 10 rpg right? Oh he has? Oh, 25 ppg is a NBA RECORD BY A EURO??? Really? You mean dirk has had more ppg then peja, ak, manu and pau??? Wait, you mean Dirk's career high of 9.9 rpg is also higher then ANY AK, Pau, Peja or Manu year????? You mean Dirk's career average of 25 ppg in the playoffs dwarf AK never been there, Manu, Pau never been and Peja THE 17 PPG CHOKER!


Wait wait, let me get this straight, you mean's DIRK'S CAREER PPG, HIS CAREER RPG ARE BOTH HIGHER THEN PEJA, AK, PAU AND MANU? YOU MEAN DIRK'S CAREER EFFICENTCY RATING IS BETTER THEN ALL FOUR? Wow, mabye Dirk is OBVIOUSLY the best eurpo in the NBA.


Nah, I don't like stats or facts anyway, im just you're average NBA fan.

Simon2
01-10-2004, 06:33 PM
There's a simple reason why Dirk isn't regarded as a "great" player yet. His defense is very poor. Think about it. He's brought the Mavs to the WCF. He eliminated the Wolves a year ago. Why is KG always spoken ahead of Dirk? Its because KG plays much better defense. If Dirk would only show that he's playing D, his accomplishments will speak for themselves.

Walkerforthree
01-10-2004, 06:51 PM
it wouldn't matter how his d was, dumbass fans and racists like charles would alway's say his d sucked, screw his d boards, blocks and steals, screw his at times good D.

Murphy3
01-10-2004, 08:31 PM
Unfortunately for all of those that constantly talk about defense..well, you do have to consider defensive rebounding as a part of defense. Dirk has been a very good defensive rebounder over the past 4 years or so. You simply cannot brush that aside.

Plus, you must also take into account that players lilke Garnett look better defensively because they are playing alongside better defenders. Now, I'm not saying that Garnett isn't a better defender because that would simply be incorrect.

However, it's virtually impossible to look good as an interior defender whenever you're playing alongside poor interior defenders and poor perimeter defenders.

Simon2
01-11-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by: Murphy3
Unfortunately for all of those that constantly talk about defense..well, you do have to consider defensive rebounding as a part of defense. Dirk has been a very good defensive rebounder over the past 4 years or so. You simply cannot brush that aside.


I am talking about straight up man to man defense.



Plus, you must also take into account that players lilke Garnett look better defensively because they are playing alongside better defenders. Now, I'm not saying that Garnett isn't a better defender because that would simply be incorrect.


Bottomline is that Garnett is a better defender. The funny thing is Garnett can't guard Dirk but Dirk can guard Garnett. Dirk just can't guard anyone else.



However, it's virtually impossible to look good as an interior defender whenever you're playing alongside poor interior defenders and poor perimeter defenders.

Please. Are you saying Dirk looks like a bad defender because of his teamates? That's simply not fair. Let's take it from another angle. Would you say Dirk is a good offensive player? Is he good because of his game or because of his teamates? He is good because he's good offensively. Even if you put Dirk on a good defensive team, he'll still have situations where he's badly burned by the other guy. Dirk has poor defense. If he showed up to games and stops the other teams tall guy, then he'll be regarded as a tall player. All Dirk has to do is to be determined to be a better defender. I guess he just has to want it. Until he goes to Nellie and tells Nellie, "Coach, I want to defend the other teams best tall guy." The Mavs fans will see a so-so effort on defense.

Part of the blame goes to Nellie. He let's Dirk get away with defensive lapses. Dirk sees that Nellie is ok with poor defense and he isn't as sharp mentally on it because he knows he can get away with it.

Jamisonite
01-11-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

Originally posted by: Nash13
Saying Kirelinko and/or Peja is better than Dirk is just stupid, and if you believe it, then you're sipping on the wrong Kool Aid.

Peja's Stats

Career: 17.4ppg 4.8rpg 2.0apg 1.02spg .14bpg 1.6tpg
Playoff: 16.7ppg 5.8rpg 1.2apg .68spg .20bpg 1.5tpg

Kirilenko's Stats

Career: 12.2ppg 5.6rpg 1.7apg 1.57spg 2.19bpg 1.77tpg
Playoff: 10.3ppg 4.3rpg 1.2apg 1.11spg 2.22bpg 1.33tpg

Dirk's Stats

Career: 20.1ppg 8.2rpg 2.3apg .99spg .98bpg 1.83tpg
Playoff: 25.5ppg 10.9rpg 2.0apg 1.37spg .86bpg 2.17tpg

Dirk's a better scorer, rebounder, passer, and blocker than Peja. He's a better scorer, rebounder, and passer than Kirilenko in the regular season.

He's better in ever stat in the playoffs than Peja, and only trails Kirilenko in blocking.

You can argue between Peja and Kirilenko who's second best, but to say they are better is not accurate.



No no no Nash, you aren't allowed to use stats!!!!! No fair, no fair. .


Actually Walker, in all fairness u cant use those career stats. And heres why

Dirk in his 6 year NBA career has only been used as a backup for 1 of those seasons. So for 5 seasons he has been a full time stater.

Peja in his 6 year NBA career has been used as a backup for 2 of those seasons...4 years as a stater

Ak in his 3...let me repeat that...3 year career...has only been a starter for 1 season...1 season(that being this season)

So how is it fair to use career stats on these guys....Thats like trying to compare Zach Randolph with Tim Duncan...

Randolph is just now coming out of his shell in his 3rd season(finally starting) and because he didnt get any minutes in his first 2 seasons and Tim Duncan(who has started his whole career) has soo much better carrer stats(22.8ppg vs 10.0ppg and 13.4rpg vs 5.8 rpg) that TD is a FAR better player than Randolph...Now im not saying that Randolph is better but TD is not way out of his league.

Carreer stats cannot be used if the guy is in third season(first season as a starter) and was a spare all the other years

Walkerforthree
01-11-2004, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

Originally posted by: Nash13
Saying Kirelinko and/or Peja is better than Dirk is just stupid, and if you believe it, then you're sipping on the wrong Kool Aid.

Peja's Stats

Career: 17.4ppg 4.8rpg 2.0apg 1.02spg .14bpg 1.6tpg
Playoff: 16.7ppg 5.8rpg 1.2apg .68spg .20bpg 1.5tpg

Kirilenko's Stats

Career: 12.2ppg 5.6rpg 1.7apg 1.57spg 2.19bpg 1.77tpg
Playoff: 10.3ppg 4.3rpg 1.2apg 1.11spg 2.22bpg 1.33tpg

Dirk's Stats

Career: 20.1ppg 8.2rpg 2.3apg .99spg .98bpg 1.83tpg
Playoff: 25.5ppg 10.9rpg 2.0apg 1.37spg .86bpg 2.17tpg

Dirk's a better scorer, rebounder, passer, and blocker than Peja. He's a better scorer, rebounder, and passer than Kirilenko in the regular season.

He's better in ever stat in the playoffs than Peja, and only trails Kirilenko in blocking.

You can argue between Peja and Kirilenko who's second best, but to say they are better is not accurate.



No no no Nash, you aren't allowed to use stats!!!!! No fair, no fair. .


Actually Walker, in all fairness u cant use those career stats. And heres why

Dirk in his 6 year NBA career has only been used as a backup for 1 of those seasons. So for 5 seasons he has been a full time stater.

Peja in his 6 year NBA career has been used as a backup for 2 of those seasons...4 years as a stater

Ak in his 3...let me repeat that...3 year career...has only been a starter for 1 season...1 season(that being this season)

So how is it fair to use career stats on these guys....Thats like trying to compare Zach Randolph with Tim Duncan...

Randolph is just now coming out of his shell in his 3rd season(finally starting) and because he didnt get any minutes in his first 2 seasons and Tim Duncan(who has started his whole career) has soo much better carrer stats(22.8ppg vs 10.0ppg and 13.4rpg vs 5.8 rpg) that TD is a FAR better player than Randolph...Now im not saying that Randolph is better but TD is not way out of his league.

Carreer stats cannot be used if the guy is in third season(first season as a starter) and was a spare all the other years


fine, compare dirk's starting year's with peja and dirk still dominates him fool