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View Full Version : Wallace Trade that Makes the Most Sense to Me.


ddh33
01-10-2004, 01:43 PM
I know the Rasheed Wallace rumors have caught fire once again. There's really only been one trade that has made a lot of sense to me from both Dallas and Portland's perspective.

Here's what we think we know:
1. Portland wants to continue their playoff streak.
2. Portland wants to clean up their image.
3. Portland wants a forward to play next to Zach.
4. Portland wants to keep salary cap flexibility.
5. Portland would like to ship out other "bad apples"

Sinec the beginning of the season, I've thought the conversation between the two teams should (or would) go a little something like this.

1. Dallas expresses interest in Rasheed dangling junk. Portland doesn't bite. The Blazers say it will take at least one of the Big Five.
2. Dallas offers Jamison and Abdul-Wahad. To take back Portland's problem child, they have to take some of our salary. Again, Portland doesn't bite.
3. Portland counteroffers with Rasheed and Ruben Patterson (bad apple) for Walker, Najera, and junk. Dallas doesn't bite. Walker is the beloved Point Forward, and Najera is too great a selling point.

Both teams continue to struggle and lose...

4. Dallas comes back and finally offers Walker. Now, talks are serious. Walker has a contract that expires the same time Stoudamire's does. This gives Portland the fexibility they've been wanting, while keeping them good enough to make the playoffs.
5. Now, if Dallas is going to offer Walker, they're going to insist on some things. Fist of all, Walker has the better stats. To get him, you have to take one of our bad contracts - Tariq Abdul-Wahad. In addition to Rasheed, we also want a Point Guard to back up Nash who can penetrate and get into the lane - McInnis. In return, we give Portland Travis Best. Travis's contract ends a season earlier than Jeff's, and he is a very capable backup.

That deal just makes too much sense to me. Maybe I just have a creative imagination though. But look at what it would do for both teams.

Dallas:
Dirk/Bradley/Fortson
Rasheed/Najera
Howard/Jamison
Finley/Delk/Daniels
Nash/McInnis

Portland:
Davis/Stepania/Boumjte
Randolph
Walker/Patterson/Woods
Anderson/Person
Stoudamire/Best

That trade would keep our versatility. It would allow Josh Howard to remain in the starting line-up. It keeps our instant offense coming off the bench, and gives us a better chance of gelling as a team. I think Jamison is the better fit for this team and is less likely to butt heads with Rasheed. Now, we have the Big Three surrounded by the glorified role-playing forwards from UNC.

This is the trade to make...Make it happen guys.

Dirkenstien
01-10-2004, 01:56 PM
No..you do not want Dirk at the 5. Its obvious that he is having trouble down there and the position dillutes his game in my opinion. Raweed Wallace is the last thing the mavericks need to be worrying about right now and frankly having him on this team does not help the log jam that we already have. I'll admit he brings defense and skill but no heart to put it to use.

We need to address our 5 position and having Dirk there will only be a liability to our defense as well as his health.

ddh33
01-10-2004, 02:05 PM
I don't think playing Dirk at center is the tragedy everyone makes it out to be. In fact, most of the time, I would rather Dirk guard the opposing teams centers than the star Power Forwards out here in the West. That's exactly what he did last year. No one was complaining then. Oh, I know that Raef was technically the center, but he was the guy trying to guard Duncan, Garnett, Brand, etc. Label it however you want, but he was practically the center last year.

Bringing in Rasheed would allow Dirk to be hidden a little better on defense. Rasheed guards everyone's best frontcourt option. Sometimes he may be the center, power forward, or small forward. It just wouldn't matter. But, I don't know how anyone could question whether or not Rasheed is a better fit on the court than Antoine Walker. He just is.

And when we go zone, Rasheed is a better shot-blocker and could play the middle of our zone better than anyone we have not named Shawn Bradley.

Jamisonite
01-10-2004, 02:12 PM
You make a good point ddh...the only 5 we really have to worry about is shaq and who is going to stop him...ME?...lol...noone...rasheed would be a serious upgrade...

Now this may strike you guys as odd(especially V) but im all for getting Rasheed if we give up Walker. I dont think he would hurt this team anymore than walker has.

Also...id rather send portalnd Delk than Best...his contract is bigger...but thats also why portland prob wouldnt want him

Nash13
01-10-2004, 02:22 PM
Walker will be the one Portland would want. They could use a point forward since their star player is a power forward. Walker has a shorter contract. He could opt out at the end of the season and come back to Dallas, but i'd doubt that would happen.

Delk has to go to.

Propose trade:

Dallas trades

Antoine Walker
Tony Delk
Don Nelson

Portland trades

Rasheed Wallace
Jeff McInnis
Maurice Cheeks
John Nash

Jamisonite
01-10-2004, 02:29 PM
also another thing that most people dont know...Walker leads the league in Technical fouls...heard that the other night

ddh33
01-10-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
also another thing that most people dont know...Walker leads the league in Technical fouls...heard that the other night

LOL...How do you say irony?

MightyToine
01-10-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
also another thing that most people dont know...Walker leads the league in Technical fouls...heard that the other night

Along with Garnett, though.

ddh33
01-10-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
also another thing that most people dont know...Walker leads the league in Technical fouls...heard that the other night

Along with Garnett, though.

I think technicals are an overrated stat. Usually, it's not that big of a deal. Usually, it does nothing but cost you a freethrow and get your own team fired up. I just thought it was kind of ironic that everyone talks about Rasheed's techs when Walker is tied for the league lead in that category.

grndmstr_c
01-10-2004, 04:24 PM
I'd do it. Rasheed's a gamble, but I can't even see the argument that he wouldn't be a better fit. He shoots the three better than Walker, has a more efficient post up game, would give us a legitimately good low post defender (even if he's not a shotblocker), and wouldn't dominate the ball as much as Walker. I'd just feel a lot better playing a lineup of Steve, Mike, JHo/AJ, Dirk, and Sheed.

MightyToine
01-10-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I'd do it. Rasheed's a gamble, but I can't even see the argument that he wouldn't be a better fit. He shoots the three better than Walker, has a more efficient post up game, would give us a legitimately good low post defender (even if he's not a shotblocker), and wouldn't dominate the ball as much as Walker. I'd just feel a lot better playing a lineup of Steve, Mike, JHo/AJ, Dirk, and Sheed.

grandmaster, do you have a twin or something because you just said in another thread that you'd prefer not to trade either anTwin 'cause Sheed and Davis don't qualify as no-brainers. Care to explain, Lucy? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

FilthyFinMavs
01-10-2004, 04:45 PM
Trading for Wallace will never make sense to me.

grndmstr_c
01-10-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I'd do it. Rasheed's a gamble, but I can't even see the argument that he wouldn't be a better fit. He shoots the three better than Walker, has a more efficient post up game, would give us a legitimately good low post defender (even if he's not a shotblocker), and wouldn't dominate the ball as much as Walker. I'd just feel a lot better playing a lineup of Steve, Mike, JHo/AJ, Dirk, and Sheed.

grandmaster, do you have a twin or something because you just said in another thread that you'd prefer not to trade either anTwin 'cause Sheed and Davis don't qualify as no-brainers. Care to explain, Lucy? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Happy to MT. I am not adverse to trading ONE of them for a player or players who fit better but bring either some baggage or have less talent. I would not, however, ship BOTH of them off unless we were clearly getting the right kind of deal. I feel Rasheed would fit better on this team than Walker. Thus, in spite of his baggage, I would make the trade that ddh33 suggested in this thread. However, in the Antwin trade in which both AJ and AW are given up for Davis and Sheed, we'd be losing on the talent, baggage, and age side of the deal. Size and need would be in our favor, however, I do not see that as being compelling enough to justify the trade. Clear?

MightyToine
01-10-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I'd do it. Rasheed's a gamble, but I can't even see the argument that he wouldn't be a better fit. He shoots the three better than Walker, has a more efficient post up game, would give us a legitimately good low post defender (even if he's not a shotblocker), and wouldn't dominate the ball as much as Walker. I'd just feel a lot better playing a lineup of Steve, Mike, JHo/AJ, Dirk, and Sheed.

grandmaster, do you have a twin or something because you just said in another thread that you'd prefer not to trade either anTwin 'cause Sheed and Davis don't qualify as no-brainers. Care to explain, Lucy? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Happy to MT. I am not adverse to trading ONE of them for a player or players who fit better but bring either some baggage or have less talent. I would not, however, ship BOTH of them off unless we were clearly getting the right kind of deal. I feel Rasheed would fit better on this team than Walker. Thus, in spite of his baggage, I would make the trade that ddh33 suggested in this thread. However, in the Antwin trade in which both AJ and AW are given up for Davis and Sheed, we'd be losing on the talent, baggage, and age side of the deal. Size and need would be in our favor, however, I do not see that as being compelling enough to justify the trade. Clear?


aaaahhhhh....okay. i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif

Dirkenstien
01-10-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Trading for Wallace will never make sense to me.\

I agree. I only see it as a sign of desparation that will in then end backfire on us and place us in a worse situation than we are presently in

FilthyFinMavs
01-10-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Trading for Wallace will never make sense to me.\

I agree. I only see it as a sign of desparation that will in then end backfire on us and place us in a worse situation than we are presently in

Desperation. Exactly. The perfect word that seems to be defining what the Mavs have done so far this season. If they pull a trade it is because they are desperate and impatient by trading for Wallace.

LRB
01-11-2004, 03:34 PM
ddh33 at this point I'd do about any trade to rid of Walker that doesn't leave us stuck with a bad contract for multiple years. Rasheeds a gamble, but Walker is for sure a bad thing for this team.

MightyToine
01-11-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
ddh33 at this point I'd do about any trade to rid of Walker that doesn't leave us stuck with a bad contract for multiple years. Rasheeds a gamble, but Walker is for sure a bad thing for this team.

Trading Walker for Rasheed is like trading the Devil you know for the Devil you DON'T KNOW. i/expressions/devil.gif

Poindexter Einstein
01-16-2004, 12:17 AM
DDH ...I like your trade idea and the way you think through the trade from both sides.

I like getting TAW out of here, cause he is wasted space and money in Dallas - though someone else might be able to get partial use from him.

Only problem is, I dont think that Portland will see Walker as a jillion times better to have than Wallace, and then be so grateful that they agree to also take on about $30M extra from TAW - since they are trying to LESSEN salary by moving Wallace. If they wanted more salary, they just keep Sheed and give him 3 yrs at 30, and they are better off than your scenario.

Plus, then they ALSO toss in their starting PG?

From a Dallas standpoint, if you can just send them Walker and TAW, for Wallace (and some small cap filler like Stepania, perhaps), then I think you grab it before they change their mind.

For those who dont like Wallace here, maybe you can send him along to Atlanta, for a Ratliff/Terry combo (plus minor cap balancers including Best leaving Dallas): that gives Atlanta a huge slash in payroll that they want and lets them move 2 players that are said to be on the move. And it gives Dallas a true C plus a very good combo-G, both of which would be needed. If its a 3 way, Dallas loses Walker-TAW-Best and gets Ratliff-Terry-Stepania-(&balancer).

ddh33
01-16-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
DDH ...I like your trade idea and the way you think through the trade from both sides.

I like getting TAW out of here, cause he is wasted space and money in Dallas - though someone else might be able to get partial use from him.

Only problem is, I dont think that Portland will see Walker as a jillion times better to have than Wallace, and then be so grateful that they agree to also take on about $30M extra from TAW - since they are trying to LESSEN salary by moving Wallace. If they wanted more salary, they just keep Sheed and give him 3 yrs at 30, and they are better off than your scenario.

Plus, then they ALSO toss in their starting PG?

From a Dallas standpoint, if you can just send them Walker and TAW, for Wallace (and some small cap filler like Stepania, perhaps), then I think you grab it before they change their mind.

For those who dont like Wallace here, maybe you can send him along to Atlanta, for a Ratliff/Terry combo (plus minor cap balancers including Best leaving Dallas): that gives Atlanta a huge slash in payroll that they want and lets them move 2 players that are said to be on the move. And it gives Dallas a true C plus a very good combo-G, both of which would be needed. If its a 3 way, Dallas loses Walker-TAW-Best and gets Ratliff-Terry-Stepania-(&balancer).

Thank you for the compliment, and welcome.

About the trade, the main reason why I thought Portland might view Walker as an upgrade was because of his contract situation, and Walker's stats, for all his flaws, have remained great. Teams take note of that and surely think that in their system he could be even more effective.

My thought was that Dallas could play on Portland's desparation to move Wallace and offer Walker and Abdul-Wahad in return. I think Portland would bite as soon as they could find even money or move out another bad apple. The biggest problem in my trade seems to be that McInnnis has played well for Portland this season. They may be reluctant to give him up. (I actually came up with this idea at the beginning of the season. At the time, McInnis was being viewed as a bad apple. That doesn't seem to be the case now. He's done great filling in for Derek Anderson).

The point I wanted to get across was that Walker would probably bring us more in a trade and put us in better bargaining position that Antawn Jamison would - mainly because of the stats and contracts.

However, the latest rumors have Jamison and Abdul-Wahad being enough to get the deal done. If that's true, then Rasheed is cheaper than I thought and Portland wasn't as desparate to cut salary as I believed. But I still believe that Antoine Walker is the bigger bargaining chip. It's just that we may not need the Big Chip to get this deal done...

Poindexter Einstein
01-16-2004, 01:12 PM
I agree that Walker is the better trade chip. Short-term contract to trade. Plus Jamison (who doesnt need the ball in his hands) seems to be more productive here than Walker. Walker, apart from contracts, also would seem to be the more desirable player - he is the kind of player that a team can build around, whereas Jamison isnt.

As to the lastest rumors - IMO they are just rumors. Time will tell, though.

MightyToine
01-16-2004, 03:43 PM
Let me say this :


There will be NO DEAL happening. Jamison AND Walker will still be with the team come Playoff Time.


'End of story.


(My opinion, of course)