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View Full Version : Jamison must go


Max Power
01-11-2004, 07:26 PM
He is incapable of playing enough defense to contribute to a team that has NBA title aspirations. Either he goes or Walker and Finley go - Jamison has to be surrounded by grinders to be effective.

LRB
01-11-2004, 07:59 PM
I still believe that Jamison is athletic enough to learn to play at least decent D. Trouble is that it won't happen under Nellie. We need to let Nellie go and then go after Riley. Riley turned Mashburn into a decent defender, I believe that he could do the same for Jamison.

But if Nellie stays at coach, Jamison won't get any better as a defender.

XERXES
01-11-2004, 08:13 PM
Jamison? How about Finley? Josh Howard has contributed more than Finley the last 2 games (yes - I know Howard hasn't played - that's the point)...I've never seen a guy disappear so fast and contribute so little in a game as Finley tonight. Wasn't he an all-star at one time? I know he's been hurt...how long will his loyalists continue to make excuses?

I've been bashing Walker for weeks - but I believe Finely needs to be held accountable...

DNNF
01-11-2004, 08:17 PM
Who the hell would want to take on two overpaid longterm contracts of finley or jamison? Walker is the one that have the most trade appeal.

Max Power
01-11-2004, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by: DNNF
Who the hell would want to take on two overpaid longterm contracts of finley or jamison? Walker is the one that have the most trade appeal.

Which is why we shouldn't kneejerk into trading Walker yet.

grndmstr_c
01-11-2004, 08:30 PM
I'm with you, LRB. Walker's the better defender at this point, but the difference isn't that great, and I just have a hard time believing that with the right coaching AJ couldn't improve to where we'd need him to be.

As for Finley, it's really pointless to even discuss trading him. With his contract, age, and position, there's virtually no way we could get anything in return that would be worth breaking up the Big 3 for. And besides, our roster is jammed up at the forward spots, not at the SG spot. Trading Finley is NOT the answer.

XERXES
01-11-2004, 09:11 PM
I concur. Nobody would give anything for Finley...and why should they? (said rhetorically with a sigh...)

Max Power
01-11-2004, 09:12 PM
Its kind of funny that everyone thinks Jamison can be "fixed" but Walker can't be. Jamison is, and always will be, the worst defender on the court. Walker is so far superior defensively it isn't even funny - who guards the best frontcourt player when Walker, Dirk, and Jamison are all on the court? It sure isn't the latter two.

Jamisonite
01-11-2004, 09:14 PM
Far superior...thats kind of funny...walker isnt a good defender by any means, id take jamison over walker ANY day...

DNNF
01-11-2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: DNNF
Who the hell would want to take on two overpaid longterm contracts of finley or jamison? Walker is the one that have the most trade appeal.

Which is why we shouldn't kneejerk into trading Walker yet.

The longer you hold on to walker, the lower his trade value will be. Also, we won't be anywhere with both Walker and jamison playing

V
01-11-2004, 09:26 PM
Mavs president says there are no plans for deal involving Jamison


09:14 PM CST on Sunday, January 11, 2004

By CHUCK CARLTON / The Dallas Morning News

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. – Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks' president of basketball operations, knows that rumors and rumors of rumors are a way of NBA life.

But one thing has bothered him about all the speculation surrounding the Mavericks – the inclusion of Antawn Jamison's name.

"Arguably, he's been our most consistent player," Nelson said.

The Mavericks like the way Jamison has bought into the system and changed his game to come off the bench. They also say they have no intention of making any panic move.

For his part, Jamison has learned to block out rumors since first hearing his name floated for Portland's Rasheed Wallace a month ago – a rumor that refuses to die.

"One time, I kind of paid too much attention," Jamison said. "It was the one that had me going to Portland. I didn't know what was going on. Ever since then, every rumor comes in one ear and out the other ear."

grndmstr_c
01-11-2004, 09:27 PM
I've seen Walker get burned off the dribble way too often for me to believe that he's far superior to AJ defensively. I think you can make solid arguments why either player should be the one we trade. With Walker, his talent, playmaking ability, and rebounding are superior. With AJ, you get only marginally weaker rebounding (coming into tonights game only one rebound per 48 minutes separated the two of them), and he's not going to create for other players, but he's a more efficient scorer who doesn't need to dominate the ball to get his points, he seems to have a far better sense of his own limitations, and he's a more natural offensive fit with the big 3. Throw in the fact that I just like him better, and that we can probably get more in return for Walker, and I lean towards keeping AJ.

Max Power
01-11-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by: DNNF

Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: DNNF
Who the hell would want to take on two overpaid longterm contracts of finley or jamison? Walker is the one that have the most trade appeal.

Which is why we shouldn't kneejerk into trading Walker yet.

The longer you hold on to walker, the lower his trade value will be. Also, we won't be anywhere with both Walker and jamison playing

Walker's value goes UP as he gets closer to free agency - next offseason will be the best time to move him for maximum value. Jamison has little to no trade value.

Max Power
01-11-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
id take jamison over walker ANY day...

With a name like Jamisonite why am I not suprised?

seelenjaeger
01-11-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
id take jamison over walker ANY day...

With a name like Jamisonite why am I not suprised?

Ask Walkerforthree and you will be surprised i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Jamisonite
01-11-2004, 10:31 PM
O im honest...Walker is a better player...but as far as the mavs go...jamison is better for this team...and if i was to start a franchise...id rather have AJ

Mavs Rule
01-11-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I've seen Walker get burned off the dribble way too often for me to believe that he's far superior to AJ defensively. I think you can make solid arguments why either player should be the one we trade. With Walker, his talent, playmaking ability, and rebounding are superior. With AJ, you get only marginally weaker rebounding (coming into tonights game only one rebound per 48 minutes separated the two of them), and he's not going to create for other players, but he's a more efficient scorer who doesn't need to dominate the ball to get his points, he seems to have a far better sense of his own limitations, and he's a more natural offensive fit with the big 3. Throw in the fact that I just like him better, and that we can probably get more in return for Walker, and I lean towards keeping AJ.


Nice post. AJ has much more energy than Walker also. Sometimes Walker just looks tired and moves like it also. He seems to be moodier than AJ and his game reflects that inconsistency IMO.

seelenjaeger
01-11-2004, 10:45 PM
AJ lacks leadership and that special attitude you need to get your teammates out of a slump.

Walker´s heart is and hunger for success is hard to count by numbers, but overall I think he´s more of a Warrior than Jamison will ever be.

Then again, we don´t need no chiefs, we need some more indians ...

(And this is by no means any racist comment, nor it is intended to be ... let it be "generals" and "soldiers" - won´t make any difference, but I like the "Warrior" picture for the metaphor)

Simon2
01-11-2004, 11:16 PM
Jamison won't learn how to play defense on this team. The reason is simple. Coaching does not demand defense. Naturally, players will slack off.

MightyToine
01-12-2004, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
Far superior...thats kind of funny...walker isnt a good defender by any means, id take jamison over walker ANY day...

I know I'm leaving myself open to attack but :






HOMER! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Lvubun1
01-12-2004, 02:45 AM
I like AJ but when it comes down to it he is a younger, quicker, slightly more talented Cedric Ceballos, horrible defense, good at getting garbage buckets, decent finisher, funny looking shot, etc. They both even scored 50 points in a game. The think that I really dislike about AJ the most is he is pretty much emotionless, he comes off the bench scores 13-14 points, grabs a couple boards, leaves the game and that's it, he is probably the most quiet player I have ever seen in the NBA.

Jamisonite
01-12-2004, 09:06 AM
[quote]
Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
AJ lacks leadership and that special attitude you need to get your teammates out of a slump. [quote]


Lacks leadership.Shows how much u know bout AJ. AJ is a leader. At UNC he led his team to the final four twice in 2 years. In Golden State he revived a DEAD organization to a team that now commands respect(they may not be the best team but every night they compete where they didnt before)...What has Walker done...Follow in Paul Pierce's footsteps...thats the leader

MightyToine
01-12-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
[quote]
Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
AJ lacks leadership and that special attitude you need to get your teammates out of a slump. [quote]


Lacks leadership.Shows how much u know bout AJ. AJ is a leader. At UNC he led his team to the final four twice in 2 years.

He also had VINCE CARTER to help him out. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

It's not like he did it by himself, you know.



In Golden State he revived a DEAD organization to a team that now commands respect(they may not be the best team but every night they compete where they didnt before)...

Golden State is more competitive, I agree. But until they MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, they will never command any respect by the teams in the league. A team is measured in how they perform in the PLAYOFFS. GS has yet to go there but if they do get there one day, and they make a good showing of themselves, they will gain respect.



What has Walker done...Follow in Paul Pierce's footsteps...thats the leader

LMAO!! YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT? i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif

I don't want to turn into StupidDannyAinge here so I will just tell you that Pierce has said(in his own words) that he is thankful for Walker to help him become the player he is today. Walker is, was, and from what I saw against Boston.....ALWAYS will be *the* Celtics no matter what Danny Ainge would have anyone believe. During his time playing with #34, Pierce would disappear for the 1st 3 quarters while Walker would score, rebound, and pass to keep the Team within striking distance and then let Pierce do his superman impression in the 4th quarter.

What else has walker done? Helped his team GET TO THE PLAYOFFS(something Jamison has YET to do) back-to-back years(ECF Finals '02, 2nd Round '03)!!!!


'nuff said. i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

Lonely PSU Mavs Fan
01-12-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine
What else has walker done? Helped his team GET TO THE PLAYOFFS(something Jamison has YET to do) back-to-back years(ECF Finals '02, 2nd Round '03)!!!!


'nuff said. i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

Emphasis being on EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS. A Walker led team does not make the playoffs in the west.

MightyToine
01-12-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by: Lonely PSU Mavs Fan

Originally posted by: MightyToine
What else has walker done? Helped his team GET TO THE PLAYOFFS(something Jamison has YET to do) back-to-back years(ECF Finals '02, 2nd Round '03)!!!!


'nuff said. i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

Emphasis being on EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS. A Walker led team does not make the playoffs in the west.



I said HELPED his team get to the playoffs. You don't think I meant that he did it single-handedly ala Michael Jordan, do you? i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif

Paul Pierce also played a huge role in that.....

FreshJive
01-12-2004, 12:54 PM
Jamison is probably the Mavs most consistent player lately. On offense he does what the Mavs suck at (offensive rebounding and low post scoring), and he runs the floor well enought to keep up with the Mavs. He fits in really well with the big three, and at times when Jamison is on the floor the Mavs look like last year's Mavs plus an inside scoring option. Both AJ and Walker are horrible on defense, so the attributes we should use to compare them should be offensive abilities and effect on team chemistry and game flow. I think it's obvious that Walker is hurting this team on offense. The point forward crap is a stupid gimmick, and it is only useful because we don't have a respectable backup point. Mabye if Nellie would stick with Best instead of using Delk in combo with Walker to handle the backup point duties, we would have a decent backup point.

We should have never done the Boston trade. Delk and Walker cause Nellie's insanities to manifest themseleves. AJ, Jiri, and Fort were the perfect additions to last year's team, and Nick was not a big subtraction. Without Walker. Without Delk.

MightyToine
01-12-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by: FreshJive
Jamison is probably the Mavs most consistent player lately. On offense he does what the Mavs suck at (offensive rebounding and low post scoring), and he runs the floor well enought to keep up with the Mavs. He fits in really well with the big three, and at times when Jamison is on the floor the Mavs look like last year's Mavs plus an inside scoring option. Both AJ and Walker are horrible on defense, so the attributes we should use to compare them should be offensive abilities and effect on team chemistry and game flow. I think it's obvious that Walker is hurting this team on offense. The point forward crap is a stupid gimmick, and it is only useful because we don't have a respectable backup point. Mabye if Nellie would stick with Best instead of using Delk in combo with Walker to handle the backup point duties, we would have a decent backup point.

We should have never done the Boston trade. Delk and Walker cause Nellie's insanities to manifest themseleves. AJ, Jiri, and Fort were the perfect additions to last year's team, and Nick was not a big subtraction. Without Walker. Without Delk.




Not very subtle, are you? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif


Well two can play this game!

Without NELLIE. Without his POINT-FORWARD CRAP.


i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

FreshJive
01-12-2004, 01:18 PM
Without Mightytoine.i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Max Power
01-12-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I like AJ but when it comes down to it he is a younger, quicker, slightly more talented Cedric Ceballos, horrible defense, good at getting garbage buckets, decent finisher, funny looking shot, etc. They both even scored 50 points in a game. The think that I really dislike about AJ the most is he is pretty much emotionless, he comes off the bench scores 13-14 points, grabs a couple boards, leaves the game and that's it, he is probably the most quiet player I have ever seen in the NBA.

What a great comparison. Jamison is the 2nd coming of Ceballos.

kg_veteran
01-12-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I like AJ but when it comes down to it he is a younger, quicker, slightly more talented Cedric Ceballos, horrible defense, good at getting garbage buckets, decent finisher, funny looking shot, etc. They both even scored 50 points in a game. The think that I really dislike about AJ the most is he is pretty much emotionless, he comes off the bench scores 13-14 points, grabs a couple boards, leaves the game and that's it, he is probably the most quiet player I have ever seen in the NBA.

What a great comparison. Jamison is the 2nd coming of Ceballos.

That is a fantastic comparison. There are some differences, but the similarities in the way they play the game are striking.

LRB
01-12-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I like AJ but when it comes down to it he is a younger, quicker, slightly more talented Cedric Ceballos, horrible defense, good at getting garbage buckets, decent finisher, funny looking shot, etc. They both even scored 50 points in a game. The think that I really dislike about AJ the most is he is pretty much emotionless, he comes off the bench scores 13-14 points, grabs a couple boards, leaves the game and that's it, he is probably the most quiet player I have ever seen in the NBA.

What a great comparison. Jamison is the 2nd coming of Ceballos.

That is a fantastic comparison. There are some differences, but the similarities in the way they play the game are striking.

Maybe we can bring back Cedric to be Jamison's personal defense coach. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

FreshJive
01-12-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: Lvubun1
I like AJ but when it comes down to it he is a younger, quicker, slightly more talented Cedric Ceballos, horrible defense, good at getting garbage buckets, decent finisher, funny looking shot, etc. They both even scored 50 points in a game. The think that I really dislike about AJ the most is he is pretty much emotionless, he comes off the bench scores 13-14 points, grabs a couple boards, leaves the game and that's it, he is probably the most quiet player I have ever seen in the NBA.

What a great comparison. Jamison is the 2nd coming of Ceballos.

Horrible comparison. Ceballos was a streaky clown who played on emotion like Nick. Jamison is solid and steady, and his funny looking shot is a tactical advantage that keeps him from getting blocked. Ceballos's funny looking shot was just an ugly shooting form that should have been corrected.