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WayOutWest
01-14-2004, 02:06 PM
While we've heard these issues before, they were rumors up until now. The new news is that the infamous "yellow panties" were clean when she put them on, it was rumored that they already had the semen on them from two nights before and she just accidentally put on a dirty pair.

A rumor/theory that was also presented is the the alleged victim suffers from a bi-polar disorder. That would explain alot.

Here is the article:

Bryant lawyer: second sex act
Woman with another man before rape exam?

By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
January 14, 2004

Kobe Bryant's alleged victim may have had sex with another man after she left the Los Angeles Laker star's hotel room but before a rape exam 18 hours later.

Bryant lawyer Pamela Mackey makes that allegation in a legal filing made public Tuesday, in arguing that the young woman's prior and subsequent sexual conduct should be admissible at trial.

The basis for Mackey's allegation stems from the semen and sperm found in the yellow panties which the 19-year-old Eagle woman wore to her July 1 examination at Valley View Hospital in Glenwood Springs.

For the first time, in a legal filing made public Tuesday, Mackey states that those same yellow panties - which aren't what the alleged victim was wearing during her June 30 encounter with Bryant - were clean at the time the woman put them on.

"That the accuser was wearing panties at the time of her examination containing the sperm and semen of an (as yet) unidentified male compellingly suggests an intervening sexual event," Mackey states in her brief.

The document goes on to state that "the accuser told law enforcement authorities that these panties had been clean when she put them on."

The "reasonable inference from the presence of semen on those yellow panties is that the accuser engaged in unprotected sexual intercourse between her encounter with Mr. Bryant and the physical examination - that is, within less than 18 hours of the exam," Mackey's brief states.

Mackey's legal filing does not suggest whose sperm and semen were in the yellow underwear. However, at Bryant's preliminary hearing, Eagle County sheriff's Detective Doug Winters said the woman told him she had sex with someone a day or two before the incident involving Bryant - but that on that occasion, a condom was used.

Also at the October preliminary hearing, Winters testified that a sexual-assault nurse who examined Bryant's alleged victim concluded that pinpoint lacerations and two abrasions found in her vaginal area were consistent with forced penetration.

But the new filing from Mackey contends those injuries are also consistent with multiple consensual acts in the 72 hours prior to her examination by nurses in Glenwood Springs the afternoon of July 1.

Denver defense attorney Craig Silverman, a former felony prosecutor, said, "If you put all of team-Kobe's pleadings together, one conclusion that might be drawn is that she had sex with Kobe Bryant, and then she ran to her ex" and had intercourse again.

Prosecutors believe Colorado's rape-shield law, written to limit defense lawyers' ability to expose a victim's sexual history at trial, should prevent Bryant's lawyers from introducing such evidence.

Bryant's legal team, in a motion filed Dec. 12, is challenging the constitutionality of the rape-shield law.

In a separate filing by Mackey, also made public Tuesday, the defense lawyer seizes on a remark made Dec. 18 by a friend of the alleged victim, on NBC's Today show, that the alleged victim "has a minor case maybe of being bipolar."

That comment, made by Johnray Strickland - described by NBC as a former boyfriend of the young woman - is used by Mackey to buttress the defense argument that her medical and mental-health history is relevant to the case and should be admissible at trial.

"One of the common symptoms of mania is an increased sexual drive and engaging in sexual indiscretions," which may be lead to "poor judgment and reckless behavior experienced during manic episodes," Bryant's lawyer states.

According to that same defense document, evidence that the Eagle woman might have been in a manic state at the time she was with Bryant is crucial to the defense contention that she willingly had sex with multiple partners in a 72-hour period - including Bryant - and "might be suffering from a delusion" about what transpired June 30 in Bryant's room at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera.

Bryant, free on $25,000 bond, has admitted committing adultery, but said his contact with the Eagle woman was consensual. The next pretrial motions hearing in the case is set for Jan. 23.

madape
01-14-2004, 02:22 PM
Let's say you have a wife or a girlfriend who you have sex with... let's say she gets raped by Kobe Bryant.

Yes, your wife may have traces of your semen in her panties. Does that mean she didn't get raped?

Simon2
01-14-2004, 02:27 PM
I think this is the perfect example of "dirty laundry". This case is getting stranger and stranger.

Max Power
01-14-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Let's say you have a wife or a girlfriend who you have sex with... let's say she gets raped by Kobe Bryant.

Yes, your wife may have traces of your semen in her panties. Does that mean she didn't get raped?

Lets say your son had consentual sex with a woman who had multiple partners that day and later claimed rape. Does that mean your son should go to jail?

Innocent until proved guilty is the law of the land.

WayOutWest
01-14-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Let's say you have a wife or a girlfriend who you have sex with... let's say she gets raped by Kobe Bryant.

Yes, your wife may have traces of your semen in her panties. Does that mean she didn't get raped?

Let's say my wife/girlfriend was raped the last thing on our minds would be having sex, let alone within 18 hours of the attack and before the rape kit exam.

According to her statement, she had protected sex with someone two days prior to the Kobe incident. It's possible for there to be semen present despite using rubber, assuming that's the type of "protection" she was reffering too. She said nothing about any sexual relations the day of or after the attack. I'm sure the who/when/where details of the "other" persons semen will come to light. I'm not saying she did or didn't get raped but you now have reasonable doubt.

madape
01-14-2004, 03:59 PM
The point is that if a woman agrees to consensual sex with another person before she gets raped, a rapist shouldn't be entitled to a get out of free card. Almost every woman in a relationship has consensual sex with their boyfriends/husbands. What does that have to do with getting raped? Are only single girls protected under rape laws?

I'd love to hear how the defense proves that the woman had sex AFTER her encounter with Kobe, as opposed to the day before as the victim claims. I want them to match the semen to the man, then hear him testify that the encounter occured early the next morning. If the defense really wants to use dirty panties as a central part of their defense, they are going to have to convince the jury that the semen arrived in those panties after she left the hotel. That's a pretty wild claim. If it were true, I'm sure we'd already know who the guy was, and when and where the sexual encounter happened. But all we have is the dirty panties of a woman who admits she was sexually active.

I would think it would be much easier for the procecution to build a case that the woman did NOT have sex with anyone in the 18 hour period after she was with Kobe. I guess we'll find out soon, eh?

Drbio
01-14-2004, 04:35 PM
agreed ape.


BTW, you do not have reasonable doubt until a jury says you have reasonable doubt. period.

kg_veteran
01-14-2004, 04:43 PM
Great points, ape.

They don't really get any mileage out of the panties alone, unless they have the "sperm donor" ready and willing to come testify about sex with her AFTER sex with Kobe. Plus, the defense is going to be implying that she was raped by someone else -- namely, the second sex partner. They have to explain her injuries somehow.

You tell me if it's likely that the second sex partner (assuming he had sex with her AFTER Kobe did and assuming the defense is going to accuse him of being the one that raped her) is likely to cooperate with the defense.

Max Power
01-14-2004, 08:24 PM
kg - I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV but there was a statement about that other multiple sex partner. It could have been consentual and still provide injuries.


But the new filing from Mackey contends those injuries are also consistent with multiple consensual acts in the 72 hours prior to her examination

kg_veteran
01-15-2004, 12:54 AM
It'll be interesting to watch. Either way, I think they have to come up with a sex partner on the witness stand to make it sell.

WayOutWest
01-15-2004, 01:01 AM
Exactly Max.

Kobe will not be convicted if it comes down to "he said/she said". They've already got a witness that said she was ok after the alleged attack to counter the witness that said she was upset. Now they are trying to discredit the physical evidence and so far the physical evidence was the bruise on her cheek, Kobe's DNA and the vaginal tears. The vaginal tears/lacerations were pretty minor IMO, since they were only discovered with the use of a microscope.

Like I said before I'm not saying she was or wasn't raped, I'm just saying that some of the physical evidence can now be disputed since it could be consistent with consentual sex.

The "consentual sex doesn't rule out rape" arguement is weak since it doesn't mean she was raped either. That's the whole point of the defeneses arguement, they can explain away the building blocks of the prosecutions case.

Shaq Attack2
01-15-2004, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by: WayOutWest
Exactly Max.

Kobe will not be convicted if it comes down to "he said/she said". They've already got a witness that said she was ok after the alleged attack to counter the witness that said she was upset. Now they are trying to discredit the physical evidence and so far the physical evidence was the bruise on her cheek, Kobe's DNA and the vaginal tears. The vaginal tears/lacerations were pretty minor IMO, since they were only discovered with the use of a microscope.

Like I said before I'm not saying she was or wasn't raped, I'm just saying that some of the physical evidence can now be disputed since it could be consistent with consentual sex.

The "consentual sex doesn't rule out rape" arguement is weak since it doesn't mean she was raped either. That's the whole point of the defeneses arguement, they can explain away the building blocks of the prosecutions case.

Yup, I agree. Unfortunately, even if Kobe is guilty of rape, it looks like he will get off easily if any of this evidence is allowed in front of a grand jury.