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Bayliss
01-19-2004, 07:56 PM
Efficiency is essentially being productive without waste. Applying it to basketball, efficiency is the rate of "positiveness" on the floor in proportion to the "negative".

How much weight do you place efficiency on measuring a player? Do you think the media looks at that stat when selecting the all-nba team?

LRB
01-19-2004, 08:11 PM
Bayliss I don't think that they look at this stat near enough. For example Walker is a terribly inefficient scorer, but you hardly hear anyone talk about it. Even the Mavs own announcers don't mention it. AI is another disaster at efficiency in scoring, but all he gets are rave reviews. The closest I remember hearing is John Thompson talking about "quality points", but that's still not efficiency.

Psychedelic Fuzz
01-19-2004, 08:40 PM
They definitely don't. As LRB said, many of the game's so-called superstars are high volume shooters in situations where a nonexistant supporting cast lets them get away with it, or they just have huge egos and won't share the ball.

The talking heads don't look at it enough, but I don't think it's the definitive measure of a basketball player. There are some players who are inefficient because they are in situations where they feel they need to score, and masks other aspects of the player's game. There are also "inefficient" players who despite weakness can be relied upon to make the big shot or play when called on.

OutletPass
01-19-2004, 08:42 PM
Good point Bayliss...a really good point.

Efficiency, whether on O or D is #1 in my books...But I think that's common among us basketball freaks...
And totally foreign to the casual basketball fan and the media. And I do think that the GAP is HUGE. Just HUGE.

Just take 100 people from this board...and they'll come up with a better tem than the media EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK. Actually...that would be a great thread...the Dallas-Mavs.com All Star team.

Obviously, we'd have to figure out a way to exclude "landslide" voting on the Mavs themselves...but that's a very interesting idea.

Psychedelic Fuzz
01-19-2004, 08:48 PM
we could ask each member for a 5 man starting lineup, with no more than...say...2 mavs players, then count the appearances of each player.

grndmstr_c
01-19-2004, 08:56 PM
Heck, we could just have them pick a non-Mavs team, and just make notes about where they think Mavs players might fit in, and who they'd force out.

Murphy3
01-19-2004, 09:09 PM
PPS is definitely something I look at. Hell, a couple of seasons back, I actually came up with a similar stat to relative field goal percentage that weighed things just slightly differently..basically, just did a better job of weighing in FT% into the equation.

I'll have to see if I still have that written down somewhere.

Bayliss
01-19-2004, 09:12 PM
Here's the dumb part about efficiency or lack thereof:

Kobe Bryant will be selected to the All-NBA First Team
Baron Davis will be selected to All-NBA First/Second Team
Allen Iverson will be selected to All-NBA Third Team

What do those three players have in common? They are 3 so called "stars" who have pitiful efficiency rankings. Yet guys like Dirk, Brand, etc can't even get recognition sometimes because of their efficiency.

Give you a good example of how inefficiency to the media works. A player can scoe 40 points one game on 40+ shots and be called great (Kobe did it repeatedly last year)... while another player can score 30 points on 20 shots and be called "good".

Doesn't make much sense to me.

OutletPass
01-19-2004, 09:16 PM
In the interest of time, I went with PFuzz's idea...and added a vote for a sixth player at any position...I've posted it in the Main forum....and asked a mod to Sticky it to the top.

Actually, I think it's a great idea...so props to PFUZZ AND BAYLISS...If anyone has additional ideas...let me know...we can change it if we need to if it's done timely...And Bayliss, I don't think that OUR PICKS will include volume shooting fools like AI, kobe or Baron...But we'll see.

(Note to all: After the voting is finished, we could publish the "efficiency all stars under the best formulas...and then compare)

I'll take "efficient players" over hyped players any damn day !!!!!!!!!!

Really a great thread, Bayliss.

Bayliss
01-19-2004, 09:54 PM
The year that Jordan scored 37 points a game... and carried the Bulls? His efficiency was 27. That's right. Dirk's efficiency last year was better than Jordan's "statistical career year."

What does that tell you about stats? That in the grand scheme of things... sometimes they d not matter. Ask just about any player who played against him and most of them will tell you they would rather have the older Michael Jordan (post 91) to the young Mj (pre 91). The simple reason is because Jordan became better for his team when he became more efficient... and thus harder to defeat in the playoffs.

OutletPass
01-19-2004, 11:32 PM
A short "voting" update...

AI is getting his butt kicked by Mike Redd and T-Mac at the 2...
Pierce is a very distant 2nd to Artest...
Baron is holding his own...just behind Kidd...
JO and Big Ben are dominating down low.

and the "West Team" is really dominant in the voting

Cassell, Peja, KG, TD and Dirk are outclassing everyone.