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Charlie Brown
01-20-2004, 01:15 PM
Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.1 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 5.4 apg in 38.2 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.0 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.1 apg in 10.5 minutes)
PG Travis Best (3.4 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.1 apg in 14.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Nick Van Exel (13.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.9 apg in 34.1 minutes)
C Erick Dampier (11.6 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 0.8 apg in 31.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +2.5 ppg, +1.3 rpg, and -0.9 apg.

Golden State trades: PG Nick Van Exel (13.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.9 apg in 34.1 minutes)
C Erick Dampier (11.6 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 0.8 apg in 31.9 minutes)
Golden State receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.1 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 5.4 apg in 40 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.0 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.1 apg in 28 games)
PG Travis Best (3.4 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.1 apg in 34 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.5 ppg, -1.3 rpg, and +0.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Why Golden State Does This:

Rumor has it that they are trying to unload Nick Van Exel. I think Golden State's season is pretty much gone and they probably want more cap room. Walker and Best both have expiring contracts. The big loss is Dampier, but Bradley might soften the blow a bit and Bradley's contract is very reasonable. Considering Murphy's injury troubles, Walker could play PF there.

Why Dallas Does This:

I'm not the biggest fan of NVE, but if used right, is a tremendous asset for us. Dampier becomes our first legitimate, good center since James Donaldson. He's not a beast defensively, but he's more than adequate.

I like this lineup and minute distribution.

PG Steve Nash (33) Nick Van Exel (15)
SG Michael Finley (36) Nick Van Exel (12)
SF Josh Howard (30) Antawn Jamison (18)
PF Dirk Nowitzki (30) Antawn Jamison (18)
C Erick Dampier (35) Dirk Nowitzki (8) Danny Fortson (5)

grndmstr_c
01-20-2004, 01:17 PM
OP, your flamethrower, please.i/expressions/rolleye.gif

MightyToine
01-20-2004, 01:26 PM
When I saw that trade proposal and then saw the name of the poster, I immediately thought to myself : THAT BLOCKHEAD! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Charlie Brown
01-20-2004, 01:38 PM
yawn . . . i think i've heard that 'blockhead' comment from nearly every other poster on this board . . . getting kind of old . . .

anyways, please enlighten me as to why you think the trade is ridiculous . . . obviously, if you look at talent versus talent, dallas is getting more in return, but if you look at the trends in recent trades and some rumors, lesser teams appear more than willing to give up quality talent for cap room, younger players, picks, etc.. but in this scenario, the trade disparity isn't that wide. nve's past his peak and walker's still a young quality player. perhaps if we give them marquis daniels instead of best plus a draft pick or two, the trade may make more sense. i don't see GS going anywhere with the team they have and i'm sure they're looking to get rid of NVE and hit the offseason with as much cap room as possible.

XERXES
01-20-2004, 01:48 PM
Isn't Dampier a FA after this year?

kg_veteran
01-20-2004, 02:05 PM
Practically speaking, Nick's not getting traded back to Dallas.

Murphy3
01-20-2004, 02:07 PM
Hmm, interesting...

I can see the logic. You add a little muscle and add an insurance policy to Stevie Nash. But, at the same time, I'm not sure I like throwing NVE back into the mix offensively. Walker might be getting it for the first time. He 'might' be understanding that the less he shoots, the better it is for the team.

Adding NVE could also lead to more small ball...
But, it would also free up a starting spot for Jamison and give the mavs a little more muscle.
However, that muscle might sit on the bench with Nellie at the helm.

Basically, I have no use for NVE. So, I'm going to pass.

sike
01-20-2004, 02:29 PM
love Eric D., not NVE......I can wait for another deal to come along....or for tag in the off season.....*maybe*.....

ddh33
01-20-2004, 02:38 PM
I still miss Nick. I would love to have him back, even if it meant a lot oif the negative things that we had to deal with - like small ball, lack of D, etc. He could still help this team with his playmaking and clutchness (is that a word?). I wish I thought that Mark would bring him back, but I don't see it happening.

Dampier is a guy that I've never been as high on as some. He seems to be figuring things out though. I think health is the main reason. But I don't really see Dampier providing anything that someone like Ostertag wouldn't provide.

sike
01-20-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by: ddh33
I still miss Nick. I would love to have him back, even if it meant a lot oif the negative things that we had to deal with - like small ball, lack of D, etc

ddh my man, this makes no sense for the Mavs, maybe some for a NVE fan, but not for a team trying to move away from the "negative things"....

ddh33
01-20-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: ddh33
I still miss Nick. I would love to have him back, even if it meant a lot oif the negative things that we had to deal with - like small ball, lack of D, etc

ddh my man, this makes no sense for the Mavs, maybe some for a NVE fan, but not for a team trying to move away from the "negative things"....

Oh, I know. I didn't say it would make tons of sense for us from a basketball standpoint. It would probably bring back a lot of the negative things we've been trying to move away from - like the things I mentioned.

But I do miss Nick, and I think the guys on this team miss him too. I think they felt pretty close to him.

Murphy3
01-20-2004, 02:51 PM
I don't think NVE is clutch. He's taken so many shots late in games that he's bound to hit a few. If anything, he was far from clutch last season. He did have a good playoff run, but that was not indicative of what he did in a Mavs uniform by any stretch of the imagination. He did not play at nearly that level for the majority of the time while he was with the Mavs. He's an inconsistent shooter that caught a hot streak. Yes, he's a good PG, but I can do without him on this Mavs team. The Mavs already have a 40% shooter that distributes the ball.

Charlie Brown
01-20-2004, 02:55 PM
I was one of the biggest critics of nick van exel last year, or more importantly, how Don Nelson utilized Nick Van Exel. However, I doubt if NVE came back to the Mavs, Nelson would return back to his small ball days. Maybe here and there, but the difference between last year and this year is that now we have a legitimate small forward (antawn jamison) and another quality swingman (josh howard) that will limit NVE's minutes on the court. last year, nelson simply could not trust bell, griffin, and walt williams enough to give them consistent minutes and especially in crunch time. but i believe jamison and howard are quality players who will make nelson think twice about going to small ball, especially since he will have a legitimate center in dampier as well.

but another reason why i want nve here is that i'm very skeptical about nash's health. he seems to get injured every freakin year and appears to always get tired by the playoffs. on the otherhand, nve always seems to get more energetic by the time playoffs come around. and i don't trust best as the starter if nash goes down.

if nellie can get walker to tone down his shots, i think he can do the same with nve. i think the current mavs team is still not championship caliber and i'm not a big fan of ostertag either. dampier, when motivated is like a 7 foot danny fortson which is what this team needs at the center position.

i guess i'm the only one who likes this trade . . . but i understand all the arguments put forth.

sike
01-20-2004, 03:00 PM
cb, i think that Nelly has proven that if you give him a reason, he will play small ball.....for goodness sake, Dirk has been their center this year!....you are correct that it would be more difficult though...but I can see those Nash, NVE, Finely, Walker Dirk lineups.....and that just scares the crap out of me!

Jamisonite
01-20-2004, 03:02 PM
Isnt NVE on the IR??

Charlie Brown
01-20-2004, 03:20 PM
well, for one thing, walker would be gone with this trade.

another thing, if nelson decides to use that lineup in crunch time even though he has guys like josh howard, antawn jamison, and especially an actual center in erick dampier, i would want nellie gone and his excuses about having no center.

but i like this lineup

nash
finley
jamison (if we need scoring) or howard (if we need defense)
nowitzki
dampier

nve's getting old. i don't think he'd mind an even more reduced role.

btw, i'd rather have dampier than ostertag, ilgauskas, or ratliff. wasn't sure what other posters thought, but i think ostertag's too slow, ilguaskas can't play defense, and ratliff is way overrated and injury-prone. there's not many centers out there that can help us, but dampier is one of the few IMO.

LRB
01-20-2004, 03:43 PM
What I don't like is that with NVE's health we can't depend on him this year as a solid backup. This trade leaves us real shot at PG. Also, it really doesn't do that much for us at center. We would get a pretty good defensive center, but with limited offense. Nellie wouldn't play him much and if he did he'd have no backup. IMO Dampier is the better defender for one on one physical post players. Bradley is the better help defender and shot blocker. Dampier would be a better rebounder. But IMO we this trade isn't worth doing. We'd see small ball return with NVE. Can you see Nash, NVE, Finely, Jamison, and Dirk trying to get defensive stops to close out a game? I'd rather have Walker than NVE in that case. No thankyou. Better to try and get OsterTag as a FA next summer.

Poindexter Einstein
01-20-2004, 03:49 PM
One factor about NVE and Dampier that needs to be considered ...BOTH will be able to opt out and become a free agent after the season.

Logic says that NVE wont opt out - he is due to get almsot $12M next year.
Dampier is due to get only about $8M next year - so you have to expect him to exercise his opt out and be open to the highest bidder.

kg_veteran
01-20-2004, 03:57 PM
Honestly, the reason I don't like this deal is that I really like how Walker's starting to fit in. He can be every bit the playmaker that NVE was if we use him right (and signs are that we're figuring that out). Plus, he's 27 and fits well into the long-term plans for this team. There's no reason that the Mavs can't be centered around The "Big 5" and roleplayers for years to come.

ddh33
01-20-2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Honestly, the reason I don't like this deal is that I really like how Walker's starting to fit in. He can be every bit the playmaker that NVE was if we use him right (and signs are that we're figuring that out). Plus, he's 27 and fits well into the long-term plans for this team. There's no reason that the Mavs can't be centered around The "Big 5" and roleplayers for years to come.

I've been really encouraged lately too. But I need to see this team keep it up.

The only thing I would add is that I would much rather have this team built around Dirk, with everyone else playing a supporting role to him. It seems that is coming closer to a reality though.

Jamisonite
01-20-2004, 04:10 PM
Must agree with KG on this one my friends

MightyToine
01-20-2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by: Charlie Brown
yawn . . . i think i've heard that 'blockhead' comment from nearly every other poster on this board . . . getting kind of old . . .

sorry but I'm new here so I didn't know that. It's my turn, anyway.


And the thing is why oh why would you want the Older Van Exel back?? He has bad knees while Walker has only missed 7 games in his 7-year career thus far....SEVEN GAMES, MAN!!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif


I'm sorry but Walker is a very good player(great player if he continues to pass more and shoot less) AND DURABLE. Van Exel is not.

MightyToine
01-20-2004, 04:27 PM
The Mavs already have a 40% shooter that distributes the ball.


Does Walker distribute the ball better than NVE, Murph?

MightyToine
01-20-2004, 04:30 PM
well, for one thing, walker would be gone with this trade.



Aha! So that's the REAL Reason you want NVE back.


Oh brother... I've seen enough.


Next!

Charlie Brown
01-20-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine

Originally posted by: Charlie Brown
yawn . . . i think i've heard that 'blockhead' comment from nearly every other poster on this board . . . getting kind of old . . .

sorry but I'm new here so I didn't know that. It's my turn, anyway.


And the thing is why oh why would you want the Older Van Exel back?? He has bad knees while Walker has only missed 7 games in his 7-year career thus far....SEVEN GAMES, MAN!!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif


I'm sorry but Walker is a very good player(great player if he continues to pass more and shoot less) AND DURABLE. Van Exel is not.


why are you making this a van exel versus antoine walker thing?? the key players in the trade are erick dampier and antoine walker. i would do that trade straight up if the salaries matched.

and unlike most posters on here, i'm still not sold on antoine walker. sure he's had a couple good games the past couple weeks, but personally, i think the large sum of money that we're paying for his skills could be more efficiently put to use for the improvement of this team. when i saw the team last year in the playoffs, passing was not the big issue on this team. what we needed was better interior defense, which dampier would give more than walker. better rebounding, which dampier can do just as well. and less small ball, where the presence of dampier would much more likely lead to a conventional lineup rather than without him.

i'm not saying walker's a bad player. he's a good player, but he's not what the Mavericks need. actually, i would not mind a lineup of nash, finley, walker, nowitzki, dampier. but we'd probably have to give up jamison, but it is highly unlikely that GS takes him back.

and is everyone so optimistic that walker will rein in his shots for the rest of the season and ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. i still see walker eventually taking 15-20 shots a game and 4+ 3's consistently and it will hurt the team. especially if we hit another losing streak, walker will probably think that his sacrifice was not worth it and go back to shooting the ball again . . . i don't know. it all seems like a volatile situation to me.

kg_veteran
01-20-2004, 05:16 PM
Dampier is definitely a guy that could help.

At the same time, I disagree with you about Tag. I think he's a great fit here.

Bottom line, I'd rather have Walker, Bradley, and the chance at Tag than Dampier and Van Exel.

sike
01-20-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Dampier is definitely a guy that could help.

At the same time, I disagree with you about Tag. I think he's a great fit here.

Bottom line, I'd rather have Walker, Bradley, and the chance at Tag than Dampier and Van Exel.

simply stated, I simply agree.....

Jeremiah
01-20-2004, 09:28 PM
I sortof like Damp here. I think he's playing great because a) it's a contract year, and b) he has no backup like Foyle, and no one to clog the paint like Murphy, Jamison or Fortson. He'd have that much of the time here too, I suppose.

Here's what I don't like about Tag: he's quoted in the last issue of the magazine as saying that he wouldn't be half the player he is without Sloan. That's my red flag right there. I'm not much of a fan anyway, but that comment, if it means what I think it means, that he's good because he plays in Sloan's system, then I've no use for him.

grndmstr_c
01-20-2004, 10:18 PM
Nick's got creaky knees. Best has been giving us solid minutes lately and comes without health concerns.

I like Damp, but there's no way I'd ever trade BOTH Walker and Bradley for him. That would just be insane.

MightyToine
01-20-2004, 11:13 PM
Charlie, you're right.

It could be a volatile situation....if this Antoine Walker was the same antoine Walker we saw in Boston. But slowly and surely he's going away from that.

yes he took the most shots again tonight but seeing the game showed me that Walker actually missed some tip-ins and tried to score in the low-post. If he does that, then I don't mind if he has more shots than Dirk. It's his 3's that drive me coo-coo. Encouraging sign : He took only 3 attempts today....again!

MADE 1 OF THEM.

If he can keep them at 3 attempts and make 1 of them, that would certainly raise his percentile in 3Pters. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif



GO MAVS!!

EricaLubarsky
01-21-2004, 11:31 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/flamethrower-vietnam.jpg

GS is not trading Dampier- he is their only hope right now and with Foyle out for the season I hardly think they would trade their last center whoever he was. GS is living by the popular philosophy that all you need to win is a dominating center and a good point guard. They drafted a defensively minded SG, traded away their SF for a good point guard and spent big gucks developing Dampier. I hardly think either one is up for grabs without a sweetheart of a deal and definitely not both.

Also, who wants Walker? Only Nellie is unconventional enough to use him as a PnF. If teams play him as a PwF then his passing skill is nullified and the team would only look at his lack of defense and his horrible FG%

GS may be dumb but they arent http://www.naspe-patients.org/patients/substances/images/cocaine.jpg

u2sarajevo
01-21-2004, 11:51 AM
Apparently someone discovered how to post images today. i/expressions/moon.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

EricaLubarsky
01-21-2004, 02:14 PM
no! I just got trigger happy today. Someone needed to flamethrow a number of threads.