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View Full Version : No trade is the best trade


twelli
01-21-2004, 02:16 AM
I think after all the blockbuster trades between and during the last seasons, it's time for some continuity. Among all the trades Cuban pulled off so far the Walker-Jamison experience is the best. Just let them play and eventually they will figure out how to win. If you bring in another defensive saviour they will start again thinking "now we are really great, just wait until the playoffs and we will be unbeatable". I agree with the cruise-control theory. The Mavs don't have the sense of urgency, yet. But toward the end of the season they will surely get their act together and play with more intensity. No need to trade. After each trade, they say, all problems solved. Do you remember Dennis, the rebound king. They thought he could help until finding out that he was so focussed on rebounds that he didn't care to contest a shot in the first place. Do you remember Suzy Wang, the 7-foot center who could shoot the 3? They thought he could help until finding out that he wanted to be like Dirk. Like a Honda wanting to be like a Ferrari, only without the speed. Remember Riga La Do, one of the best European players ever? They thought he could help until finding out that he had problems with layups, uncontested ones... Juwan Howard was ok, but he will be mostly remembered for his flagrant foul on Anderson in the playoffs against SA and his awkward looking ball release. Josh is the better Howard right now. Raef was ok, but he will be mostly remembered for missing yet another open shot near the basket. Nick van Excrement became Nick van Excellent during his Dallas days and he was more than just ok, but I don't think he would have repeated what he did during the last playoffs. Who thought Booth, Buckner, Bell and Griffin would be missed after beeing traded. Don't make the same mistake with Najera or Josh.

So Cuban, please don't trade any of the major players during this season (if you could get Yao for Bradley, ok...)
Just give them more time to gell and learn how to play defense with the players they have.

XERXES
01-21-2004, 08:30 AM
If we continue to win then I must agree. If, however, we go back to losing to lowly east coast teams - we might want to consider a trade...

u2sarajevo
01-21-2004, 08:40 AM
It is hard to consider a trade when your club looks to be coming together as a team. However I still think if we can get a better than average 5 without having to give up the core (or our stud rookie draft pick) it would help us out tremendously come playoff time.

Blonde Bomber
01-21-2004, 09:22 AM
Totally agree with you.
I don't touch any of the top 5, and yes, that includes Walker. It would even be hard to try and trade Best with the problems that Nash is having. No matter what happens this team SHOULD stay together and see what they can accomplish with a fullseason and offseason together. And if they can convince Greg Ostertag and Dale Davis to somehow either slpit the big exception or the other take the small then this team would have a nice balance to it. I guess all bets are off if this team goes in the tank, but things look promising with the 5 game winning streak.

sike
01-21-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
It is hard to consider a trade when your club looks to be coming together as a team. However I still think if we can get a better than average 5 without having to give up the core (or our stud rookie draft pick) it would help us out tremendously come playoff time.

lets see, a better than average 5 for average bits and pieces.......sure I think the Mavs would do that deal.....now if we could only find a very, very stupid GM desperate to trade away an above average big....i/expressions/moon.gif ...stranger things have happend

u2, I love you! i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

u2sarajevo
01-21-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
It is hard to consider a trade when your club looks to be coming together as a team. However I still think if we can get a better than average 5 without having to give up the core (or our stud rookie draft pick) it would help us out tremendously come playoff time.

lets see, a better than average 5 for average bits and pieces.......sure I think the Mavs would do that deal.....now if we could only find a very, very stupid GM desperate to trade away an above average big....i/expressions/moon.gif ...stranger things have happend

u2, I love you! i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gifReally funny spaceman... but look at the offseason moves we made. We traded spare parts for coveted pieces. I don't hold out much hope of it happening either. The point of this thread was that we should not trade anything for the rest of the year, I was agreeing with that statement with the exception of finding a good deal on a 5.

sike
01-21-2004, 10:49 AM
I dont think Nellie would have called Raef or NVE "spare parts".....more like central pieces.....

we should not trade anything for the rest of the year, I was agreeing with that statement with the exception of finding a good deal on a 5.

to which I totally agree!

u2sarajevo
01-21-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by: sike
I dont think Nellie would have called Raef or NVE "spare parts".....more like central pieces.....Well no matter what Nellie called them in the grand scheme of things they were replaceable, which in my book makes them spare. No reason to get caught up in semantics here, fact is we took 2 pieces that were not a part of our core (although of the two NVE was becoming one - but he was still a luxury and created matchup problems for us when Nellie would play two points) and turned them into "core" pieces.

sike
01-21-2004, 12:10 PM
Well no matter what Nellie called them in the grand scheme of things they were replaceable, which in my book makes them spare.
so are Walker and Jamison spares or core players??? You seem to have lost me u2...on one side you say that a player cant be a central piece because they were tradable(which I'd love to hear you actually explain...what about upgrading?) and on the other hand you call Walker and Jamison "core" pieces...knowing full well that they have been and will be the two players most disscussed in trades until the deadline...so which is it? are they spares under your one formula or core pieces???
sounds like under your scheme u2, the core is expanding....I would still consider the big three the core and Jamison/Walker/whoever to be good players but still just pieces built around the core.....you are correct though no reason to play a semantical game, my thinking, Walker and Jamison are nothing more than an NVE and Reaf upgrades in your way of thought, it would seem that they are of equal value to the big three that is why you call them core pieces....right???

I think when your core gets too large, you begin to lose your identity, something this team seems to have done, and only now have the big three overcome that to lead this team again....Notice the team began winning once Walker found a role and the big three found their groove!

kingrex
01-21-2004, 12:19 PM
Your point about team identity is right on sike. This is an argument I've made on seperate threads before. The members of this team needs to find their roles on the team. They need to find the primary scorer. The main distributor. The rebounder. The down and dirty-guy. Wait am I describing a basket ball team or a the cast of a porno?

Anyway, the statement I've made before and I make again is: either these guys fill the roles necessary for this team to win, or they trade for guys who can can/will do it.

So, before the trade deadline, if Nellie hasn't found the guys necessary to make the Mavs team successful (i.e. found the necessary role players), then a trade should be made to get those guys (I know I'm speaking in generalities, but this whole thread is on that level).

ddh33
01-21-2004, 12:25 PM
My biggest priority is success for these Mavericks. From the beginning, I've wanted the guys that we have right now to be the ones who experience that success. I like our guys. I think they are great characters with high quality personalities. Through the tough times this season, I've had my doubt as to whether or not this group could have any great success, unfortunately. Hopefully, everyone on this team is beginning to accept their role and give this team their best chance at a championship. Maybe this team is enough, maybe it isn't? I really hope they get a chance to succeed and do so...

Like management, I feel like the only trade that should be made is a no-brainer. There are a lot of deals that would constitute no-brainers to some members that would not be no-brainers to me because of how much I value the guys on this team.

In the end, I would prefer someone who can effectively guard the post, block shots, rebound, and score down low. I want a player who can compliment the existing core of this team. But there aren't many of those guys around, and they usually aren't available. So, I guess I prefer to try and do it this way as opposed to getting rid of the guys we have for people are not definite upgrades.

sike
01-21-2004, 12:46 PM
well said by both King(who we need to see more of around here) and ddh(good new poster)....

Jamisonite
01-21-2004, 02:58 PM
I agree to some extent...i think we should try and trade some smaller parts(Delk/Najera/Fortson) for a player we will actually play

Quetzalcoatl
01-22-2004, 08:24 AM
Yes, I am agree with you. For me also no trade is the best trade, and in any case, I'd trade only non important players. Do not touch the core of the team.

We'll speak again in the summer i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

kingrex
01-22-2004, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl
Yes, I am agree with you. For me also no trade is the best trade, and in any case, I'd trade only non important players. Do not touch the core of the team.

We'll speak again in the summer i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

So do you mean that Dirk, Nash, Finley, Jamison & Walker are untradable? Who do you define as the "core" players?

Quetzalcoatl
01-22-2004, 06:00 PM
Yes, I define as core players those five. I would like to see them together at least until the end of this season.

What would you do instead that?

jayC
01-22-2004, 11:07 PM
I agree that you shouldn't just make a trade to make one. If its a no brainer. Aka Dirk for Duncan etc.

twelli
01-23-2004, 08:56 PM
The way the mavs played against the lakers (ok not the real lakers) I wouldn't like any of those guys be traded. They look for each other and they find each other. The passing was great. They play like a team. I like the passes between Dirk and Walker. No sign of a feud here. (Does anyone believe Walker misses shots on purpose after receiving a Dirk pass, because he doesn't want Dirk to get his first triple double?) I like seeing Jamison among the top scorers despite coming off the bench (however, I doubt that he will be content to be the sixth man for more than one season. he is too young and good). finley and nash are great as ever. Josh is huge getting those offensive rebounds. bradley was great forcing turnovers. So again, not need to change. And please keep Najera as well. He is a warrior, and even with limited time he will be needed when the playoffs arrive. Najera Ra Ra Ra!

jayC
01-23-2004, 10:54 PM
They did beat the Lakers back in December on their court. With Shaq, Kobe, Malone and Payton we did that despite finley missing the game. Only trades that are clear upgrades. Any chance to get a ben wallace, etc.

LRB
01-23-2004, 10:59 PM
(Does anyone believe Walker misses shots on purpose after receiving a Dirk pass

Absolutely not!!! Walker is such a horrible shot that if he tried to miss on purpose he'd make more than he'd miss.

sike
01-29-2004, 03:51 PM
just wanted to bump this piece of Rationality back to page one of the ever life-drainning trade forum.....

NO TRADE IS WHAT THEY NEED.....

(sign Tag. sign Tag. sign Tag. sign Tag. sign Tag. etc.....)

Boom
01-29-2004, 04:21 PM
Sike. You know....after reading your sig - I have to say being new on this forum (but modding two PC hardware forums that are very popular) I suddenly realize that this forum is not for me. Being a real Mavs fan (having season tickets) and living right here in Dallas I thought I would really like to share my enthusiasm. Not here. Never with all my posts at forums have I seen less understanding of forums than at this one, and your sig typifies non-understanding. This is my first, and last post, and ... I guess I will just stay in the hardware forums with the real vets that share love of B Ball in the lounge sections. It seems that when you venture away forum hardware forums (unless it's financial forums) that people just don't know how to mod, or act within forums. Quite frankly our B Ball talk is great, but I thought this would be better. I should have read more than 3 posts.

sike
01-29-2004, 04:41 PM
I cant say I'll miss you boom...
thanks for the sweet personal comments(since you are mod you probably should have known that if you had a problem with anything having to do with me personally, you should have PMd me...good one...

just so know, not one word in your post expressed basketball knowledge or dallas mavericks "enthusiasm"... wow, you're 0 for two so far...

as far as you comments about the superiority of hardware forums....oops, you just struck out watching a fastball down the middle of the plate.....

twelli
01-29-2004, 08:05 PM
I am a newbie and I like it here. Thanks Sike for bringing my first thread ever back to page 1. Thanks Boom for taking your bad vibes elsewhere. Why are your comments in the trade section, anyway? Ah, I know, you want to be traded back to the hardware forums, right? Ok, let's make an exception to the no trade is best idea and trade you to a lottery hardware forum (a 10-day contract will be appropriate, I guess...)

Max Power
01-29-2004, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by: Boom
Sike. You know....after reading your sig - I have to say being new on this forum (but modding two PC hardware forums that are very popular) I suddenly realize that this forum is not for me. Being a real Mavs fan (having season tickets) and living right here in Dallas I thought I would really like to share my enthusiasm. Not here. Never with all my posts at forums have I seen less understanding of forums than at this one, and your sig typifies non-understanding. This is my first, and last post, and ... I guess I will just stay in the hardware forums with the real vets that share love of B Ball in the lounge sections. It seems that when you venture away forum hardware forums (unless it's financial forums) that people just don't know how to mod, or act within forums. Quite frankly our B Ball talk is great, but I thought this would be better. I should have read more than 3 posts.

Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. Bye, bye!

kingrex
01-30-2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by: kingrex

Anyway, the statement I've made before and I make again is: either these guys fill the roles necessary for this team to win, or they trade for guys who can can/will do it.

So, before the trade deadline, if Nellie hasn't found the guys necessary to make the Mavs team successful (i.e. found the necessary role players), then a trade should be made to get those guys (I know I'm speaking in generalities, but this whole thread is on that level).

Please don't mistake my quoting myself as being self-important, but I remember making this post before the winning streak, and I really only bring it up again after the win-streak to point out how the necessity of a trade has been diminished somewhat. I attribute this to the fact that players have begun to find their niches on this team. For example, Jamison has made a living on put-backs, on dive-cuts and on some post-ups. Dirk and Finley have filled the roles of #1 and #1a scorers on this team. And, Nash has been the primary ball-distributor with Walker filling that role in spots. If this trend continues, then a trade may NOT be necessary.

ddh33
01-30-2004, 11:59 AM
[i]Originally posted by: kingrex
Please don't mistake my quoting myself as being self-important, but I remember making this post before the winning streak, and I really only bring it up again after the win-streak to point out how the necessity of a trade has been diminished somewhat. I attribute this to the fact that players have begun to find their niches on this team. For example, Jamison has made a living on put-backs, on dive-cuts and on some post-ups. Dirk and Finley have filled the roles of #1 and #1a scorers on this team. And, Nash has been the primary ball-distributor with Walker filling that role in spots. If this trend continues, then a trade may NOT be necessary.

I felt like your original thought was on the money, and I think it still applies. The key has always been getting guys to play certain roles for the benefit if the team. Lately, they've been doing exactly. As long as that continues, I see no reason to make a move. Of course, if someone becomes available who can play their role better, this team may have to make some decisions. But I am happy with this team fo the most part - flaws and all...

LRB
01-30-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by: Boom
Sike. You know....after reading your sig - I have to say being new on this forum (but modding two PC hardware forums that are very popular) I suddenly realize that this forum is not for me. Being a real Mavs fan (having season tickets) and living right here in Dallas I thought I would really like to share my enthusiasm. Not here. Never with all my posts at forums have I seen less understanding of forums than at this one, and your sig typifies non-understanding. This is my first, and last post, and ... I guess I will just stay in the hardware forums with the real vets that share love of B Ball in the lounge sections. It seems that when you venture away forum hardware forums (unless it's financial forums) that people just don't know how to mod, or act within forums. Quite frankly our B Ball talk is great, but I thought this would be better. I should have read more than 3 posts.


I've always thought that hardware and basketball were close enough to be twins. I guess this makes it a real good analogy comparing a hardware forum whcih is propably used mostly for business purposes to a basketball forum which is used mostly for recreational purposes. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

sike
02-07-2004, 09:25 PM
*bump*
this idea still holds strong for me.....let them grow...tighten the reigns on Walker feed Dirk down low....play Mavericks ball......dont throw this team into rebuilding again mid-season....

MightyToine
02-08-2004, 02:35 AM
*bump*


OUCH! I HIT MY HEAD! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif