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OutletPass
01-23-2004, 05:04 AM
It's never to early to start a conversation about the great guys who are going to join our league and, to me, it's a lot more interesting than anything that the Sam Smith's and Peter Vecsey's of our world can talk about before the trade deadline....

The Mav's don't have a "lottery shot" and they don't have a history (since Cuban's last 3 years ) of trying to move up that high, do they ? And we don't need another PF type who stands at 6'9" or 6'10" (according to who you believe) do they ?

But there's a very interesting guy out here...and whoever gets him might get really lucky.

Omeka Okafor of UConn could be a KG...a Ben Wallace...a Rodman (without the wedding gown) ...an Amare...or he could be a bust...Time will tell...but you've got to give him some props.

He's not a High school kid or a college freshman coming out or even a soph...He's a junior.

Last year, he was a 15.9/11.2/4.7 bl player in 32.9 minutes (That's 82% of the PT in a college game).
This year, he's a 19.1/11.4/5.1 bl player in 31.0 minutes.

UConn has played 16 games to date...in many of those they've blown out their opponents...
Omeka has played 30 minutes in just 10 of the 16.
And in those 16 games, he's a 21.5/12.1/5.3 player and is shooting 61.3 from the floor.

It's unfair and disingenious to translate that DIRECTLY to the NBA, BUT if colleges played NBA minutes, Omeka would be a 25/16/6.5 bl type.....in college.

I'm betting that he goes in the first 3 picks...and he'll be a damn good PF...the boy can board and block. OR he could be an unbelievable 3 if the team that drafts him already has a really nice 4.

madape
01-23-2004, 08:24 AM
This is shaping up to be one of the worst drafts in NBA history. Okafor will go in the top three, and I don't know if he really is top three material. Last year, he might not have gone in the top ten. The only way the Mavs move up that high is to trade away Dirk. I don't think anyone wants that.

On fact, I'd say stay the hell away from this draft all-together. We have three rookies on this team right now and our core is young. That should be enough of a youth movement. Our window is now. Let's concentrate on getting a big that can help us win a championship sometime in the next three years.

ocelot_ark
01-23-2004, 08:37 AM
Let's concentrate on getting a big that can help us win a championship sometime in the next three years.

We already have him...or did you forget about Mamadou?

Poindexter Einstein
01-23-2004, 09:05 AM
If this is a Mavs board, why is the draft relevant?

Mavs don't have a pick at all this year, do they?

dirno2000
01-23-2004, 09:16 AM
Okafor will go in the top three, and I don't know if he really is top three material. Last year, he might not have gone in the top ten.

No way Okafor slips past the 5th pick last year. Not with the premium the league places on big men. He's the real deal and will be a defensive force for years to come. I think he has the tenacity and defensive instincts to play center (ie. Zo Morining), especially if he ends up in the East. His offense is improving. He's a solid pick.

Max Power
01-23-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
If this is a Mavs board, why is the draft relevant?

Mavs don't have a pick at all this year, do they?

You can buy a draft pick or trade a player to get one. To ignore the draft totally is foolish.

madape
01-23-2004, 11:56 AM
No way Okafor slips past the 5th pick last year. Not with the premium the league places on big men. He's the real deal and will be a defensive force for years to come. I think he has the tenacity and defensive instincts to play center (ie. Zo Morining), especially if he ends up in the East. His offense is improving. He's a solid pick.

Perhaps. But you know he'll have a difficult time playing center in the NBA. His value comes from his shotblocking abilities. At 6'9" he's not going to be nearly as effective a shotblocker in the NBA as he is in college. In fact, he's going to have a tough time playing center, period. He's going to be forced to play the four most of the time. I like him a lot. I think he's probably the best of this year's class. But the fact that a 6'9" shotblocker with little offensive skills is considered to be the best of the class tells you something. Do you really think he'd be a top five pick last year? I have serious doubts. And let's say you're the team with the #1 pick this year. Can you really get excited about Okafor? You don't usually want "solid" guys with your #1. You want superstars, franchise cornerstones.

Okafor is never going to be mistaken for Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Allen Iverson, or Yao Ming. He's going to be a nice complementary player. He could end up being someone like Theo Ratliff or Etan Thomas. I'd compare him to Ben Wallace, but I don't think he has the rebounding tenacity.

If I'm picking a center with my #1 pick. I want him to be Olijuwan, Robinson, Yao, Duncan. I want him to be at least seven feet tall. I don't want Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas, or Adonal Foyle.

ddh33
01-23-2004, 12:02 PM
I really like Okafor. Think Ben Wallace with offense...
The rest of the draft looks pretty weak at this point, but you never know. It really is a crapshoot.

I will throw one name out for the Mavs to consider in the late first (if they move in) or the second: Chris Duhon - Duke. I know there is a Duke curse, but I would love to have a reliable backup Point who can defend like crazy, run an offense well, and score when he has to. I think it's kind of odd that the biggest knock on him has been that he is too unselfish. He just reminds me of a Shane Battier type.

dirno2000
01-23-2004, 01:17 PM
Perhaps. But you know he'll have a difficult time playing center in the NBA. His value comes from his shotblocking abilities. At 6'9" he's not going to be nearly as effective a shotblocker in the NBA as he is in college. In fact, he's going to have a tough time playing center, period. He's going to be forced to play the four most of the time. I like him a lot. I think he's probably the best of this year's class. But the fact that a 6'9" shotblocker with little offensive skills is considered to be the best of the class tells you something. Do you really think he'd be a top five pick last year? I have serious doubts. And let's say you're the team with the #1 pick this year. Can you really get excited about Okafor? You don't usually want "solid" guys with your #1. You want superstars, franchise cornerstones.

Okafor is never going to be mistaken for Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Allen Iverson, or Yao Ming. He's going to be a nice complementary player. He could end up being someone like Theo Ratliff or Etan Thomas. I'd compare him to Ben Wallace, but I don't think he has the rebounding tenacity.

If I'm picking a center with my #1 pick. I want him to be Olijuwan, Robinson, Yao, Duncan. I want him to be at least seven feet tall. I don't want Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas, or Adonal Foyle.

ESPN.com has him listed at 6'10. I guess we won't know for sure until he starts going around for workouts. At 6'10 I don't think he'll have much trouble playing center. Most teams in the league don't play true centers and nearly all of those true centers aren't very good. Of course he won't average 5 blocks per game in the league, but I see no reason why he can't average 2 or 3. Shot blocking is about instinct and either you have it or you don't. He has it. So did Alonzo Morning, another undersized center. As far as rebounding tenacity, he's averaging over 11 per game for the 2nd straight year.

I don't want Etan Thomas, Foyle or Ratliff with the 3rd pick either. None of those guys were as good as Okafor in college. I saw him in S.A. last year in the South regional and have watched him various times on T.V. He changes games on both ends of the floor. Take the N.C. game this weekend: 29 points, 13 boards and 6 blocks while holding Shawn May to 8 points on 3-shooting. That's what I call owned.

Now, is he Tim Duncan or Dream? Probably not, but those players are rare. You don't always get those players with top 5 picks. Sometimes you get Raef Lafrentz or Michael Olawakandi. I'm pretty sure he's neither one of them. Think Elton Brand. Not a superstar by any means, but a really solid big man.

…and I have to think that if given a choice, Miami would have taken Okafor over Dwayne Wade. Especially since they were already overloaded with 2/3's and all they have down low is a fast aging Brian Grant.

dirno2000
01-23-2004, 01:26 PM
From Peter Vescey's column

-------------------------------------
IN 1995, Stephon Marbury's senior year at Lincoln High School, he was acutely inclined to skip college and become the first 6-foot playmaker to apply for the NBA draft.

The unconscious majority mocked that notion when presented in this space.

One year later, he was drafted No. 4 by the Bucks, nine picks before Charlotte chose Kobe Bryant.

Kobe's booming evolution provided the impulsion for the schoolboy gold rush that continues to this day, but Marbury could've/should've been the contemporary Moses Malone frontiersman.

Yeah, right, like it was freshman year at Georgia Tech that prepared Steph for the pros, where he averaged 15.8 points and 7.8 assists as a Timberwolves rookie.

Believe me, league talent scouts were positive Marbury - though ultimately unwilling (i.e. talked out of it) - was ready and able the year before.

Just as they know for sure Sebastian Telfair, Marbury's cousin ("his mother's mother is my mother's sister," Steph explains) is capable of making a textbook transition from yellow buses to chartered planes.

"The kid's a definite lottery pick!" attests an Eastern Conference GM against the glaring wishes of commissioner David Stern, who forbids team executives and coaches to discuss high-school players publicly.

"I love his understanding of the game. He sees the floor, makes great decisions and is poised beyond his years. Sebastian isn't nearly as athletic or explosive as Steph, but he shoots better at a comparative age."

The same GM, whose rag-bag team is lottery bound, was one of 30 team execs to catch Telefair's cosmic act last month at UCLA's Pauley Pavilion; he's convinced Sebastian can competently run an NBA squad.

"If he's there, I'm taking him!" he said.



This isn't, by far, an isolated opinion. Hate to be the one to drop bad news on Rick Pitino's doorstep, but there's not a single Sebastian dissenter out there. If you crave expert eyes of the cutter, the pair belonging to Telfair will be the best available in this June's shallow draft dominated by foreigners and teenagers.

Georgia prep pin-up Dwight Howard, a 6-10 forward, already is the consensus lock to be the pick of the litter. No wonder the Hawks are asking for sky-high draft picks in trade packages involving Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

Truth is, none of the above can be news to Pitino, Louisville's head coach. He's too wired into how favorably his prized recruit is being judged by the NBA to be even vaguely surprised.

Additionally, Slick Rick has been around the block in reverse a few times; he's too aware of the temptations Telfair is facing (accepting?) on an hourly basis to think the kid can resist (or keep it on the down low) much longer, much less forego roughly $9 million guaranteed for three seasons as a mid-range lottery choice.

Marbury needlessly delayed his NBA baptism a year, it says here. Nine years later, it's Telfair chance to become the first 6-foot point guard to go straight from high school to a profitable pro career, something, by all accounts, that's deeply appealing to him.

No way Telfair will say no. No way Marbury will let him. That goes double for Marbury's mother and her sister, Sebastian's grandmother, in other words. Especially after they get a whiff of the following quote.

"If I had Telfair today," a Western Conference coach recently asserted, "I could beat the Kings tonight."

---------------------------------------------------

Say we would give Vescey the benefit of the doubt and assume that Telfair is going pro. This could come back to haunt me, but ther's no way I take a 6 foot PG straight out of high school in the lottery. What if he's the next Omar Cook?

mavs413
01-23-2004, 02:01 PM
Top Players in the upcomming Draft
Name,Height, Weight,(Current Age)

International Prospects:
Pavel Podkolzine 7-5 300 Russia (19) - He's a very raw talent but the fact that he's 7'5" makes him a possible top 5 pick.

Tiago Splitter 7-0 240 Brazil (19) - He's very versatlile, can play inside the paint or step out and hit shots around the perimenter. Good ball handler for his size, good rebounder and tough defender. Shouldnt slip past the 7-8 spot in the draft. Often compared to Pao Gasol

Andris Biedrins 6-11 230 Latvia (17) - Good Defender, times his jumps very well attempting blocks. Despite scoring consistantly off the drop-step and turn around jumper, he's not that polished on the offensive end. Probable lottery pick with a chance of being top 10.

Kosta Perovic 7-3 240 Yugoslavia (18) - Good passing skills and soft hands. Decent shot blocker mostly because of his height. Limited offensive game, most of his points come off put backs and short jumpers. Probable lottery pick with a chance of being top 10.

Ivan Chiriaev 7-1 240 Russia (19) - This guy is special, a 7 foot point guard. Unbelievable ball handling, passing ability, quickness, and atheleticism for his size. Often Compared to Dirk with handles. If he enters the draft, he's a definate lottery pick.

Other Players to Watch - Sergei Monya of Russia, Ha Seung-Jin of South Korea, Uros Slokar of Slovenia.

High School Prospects
Dwight Howard 6-10 230 Atlanta, GA (18) - The potential is scary. He has the whole package. Atheletcism, ball handling, passing, shooting, quickness, court vision, defense, and he's an honor student. His talents are a mixture of LeBron and Amare. Probably the 1st pick in the draft.

Josh Smith 6-8 220 Smyrna, GA (18) - Streaky shooter who can pour it in from downtown or he can take it to the hole for the big dunk. Good on the ball defender and rebounder. Tends to rely on his jumper and doesnt take it to the basket as much as he should. Often Compared to Michael Finley. Top 5 pick.

Sebastian Telfair 6-0 170 Brooklyn, NY (18) - Cousin of Stephon Marbury. Great court vision and passing ability. If you are open, Sebastian will find you, makes others around him better. Makes the game look easy. Superior Quickness. Likely to be picked between 15-20.

Other Players to Watch - LaMarcus Aldridge of Dallas TX, Shaun Livingston of Peoria IL

College Prospects
Emeka Okafor 6-9 250 UConn (21) - Ben Wallace with more offense. Great rebounder and shot-blocker. Hardworking and intelligent. Has good touch offensively around the basket and has a nice assortment of low post moves. One of the best low post players to come out of college in a while, the sky is the limit for Emeka. Top 3 pick in the draft, easy.

Hakim Warrick 6-8 210 Syracuse (21) - Unbelievable athlete, a highlight reel by himself. Great rebounder offensively and deffensively. Nice turnaround jumper and decent ball handling skills for a player his size. Very exciting player with huge potential. Top 10 pick.

Luol Deng 6-8 220 Duke (18) - One of the Nations most versitile players, he played all 5 positions in high school. Member of the Dinka tribe and was taught to play basketball by Manute Bol, another member of the Dinka tribe. Often compared to Grant Hill. Possible top 5 pick.

Andre Iguodala 6-6 230 Arizona (19) - Extreme vertical leap ability. Has an in-your-face defensive game and can keep the quickest players in front of him with his great lateral movement. Very unselfish with good court vision. Lottery Pick.

Jameer Nelson 6-0 190 St Joesephs (21) - The Nations best Point Guard. Very impressive penetrator who can maneuver wherever he chooses. Always aware of his teammates no matter what he's doing and discovers passing angles that seemingly shouldn't exist. Excellent Finisher despite his size. Top 10 pick.

Other Players to Watch - Ben Gordon of UConn, Josh Childress of Stanford, Antoine Wright of TAMU, Kris Humphries of Minn, and Luke Jackson of Oregon.

Misfit Mav
01-23-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by: madape

No way Okafor slips past the 5th pick last year. Not with the premium the league places on big men. He's the real deal and will be a defensive force for years to come. I think he has the tenacity and defensive instincts to play center (ie. Zo Morining), especially if he ends up in the East. His offense is improving. He's a solid pick.

Perhaps. But you know he'll have a difficult time playing center in the NBA. His value comes from his shotblocking abilities. At 6'9" he's not going to be nearly as effective a shotblocker in the NBA as he is in college. In fact, he's going to have a tough time playing center, period. He's going to be forced to play the four most of the time. I like him a lot. I think he's probably the best of this year's class. But the fact that a 6'9" shotblocker with little offensive skills is considered to be the best of the class tells you something. Do you really think he'd be a top five pick last year? I have serious doubts. And let's say you're the team with the #1 pick this year. Can you really get excited about Okafor? You don't usually want "solid" guys with your #1. You want superstars, franchise cornerstones.

Okafor is never going to be mistaken for Tim Duncan, LeBron James, Allen Iverson, or Yao Ming. He's going to be a nice complementary player. He could end up being someone like Theo Ratliff or Etan Thomas. I'd compare him to Ben Wallace, but I don't think he has the rebounding tenacity.

If I'm picking a center with my #1 pick. I want him to be Olijuwan, Robinson, Yao, Duncan. I want him to be at least seven feet tall. I don't want Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas, or Adonal Foyle.

I agree about Okafor. I think he'll be a great player at the 4 spot, but not the type of player you build a team around. Elton Brand is a great player, but he hasn't been able to lead the Bulls or the Clippers anywhere.

However, there are going to be some teams in the lottery this year that already have franchise-level players in the back-court. I'm thinking of the Magic with Tracy McGrady and the Cavs with Lebron. If one of those teams ends up with a top pick and gets Okafor, I think they will be very scary in a couple of seasons. McGrady/Okafor or Lebron/Okafor would be a great backcourt/frontcourt combination. I think either of those teams would be a solid pass-first PG away from being the best team in the East (although pass-first PG's are not too easy to come by...)

Misfit Mav
01-23-2004, 04:00 PM
Question: do the Mavs have 2 second round draft picks this year? Didn't they get Denver's or Houston's for sending their secound rounder to the Nuggets last year? And do they still have their own 2nd rounder or did they give it to Boston? I can't keep it all straight? There might be a nice surprise or two in the second round.

Thanks in advance!

Poindexter Einstein
01-23-2004, 04:31 PM
Dallas sent their 2004 #2 to MIA to complete the trade for Tim Hardaway. The #1 went to Boston in the trade for Walker.

They have Denver's #2 in SOME year. Uncertain when it falls -could be 2004, or could be still to be determined.

Misfit Mav
01-23-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
Dallas sent their 2004 #2 to MIA to complete the trade for Tim Hardaway. The #1 went to Boston in the trade for Walker.

They have Denver's #2 in SOME year. Uncertain when it falls -could be 2004, or could be still to be determined.

Thanks! Denver's #2 doesn't look nearly as good as the Mavs probably expected last year. It will probably only get worse in the next couple of years as they are an up-and-coming squad.

Julius
01-24-2004, 03:49 AM
If we can get Nikagbatse with Denvers pick that would be great. He could be the young pg to develop behind Nash.

mavs413
01-24-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by: Julius
If we can get Nikagbatse with Denvers pick that would be great. He could be the young pg to develop behind Nash.

I case you dont know who he is here you go Misan Nikagbatse (http://www.nba.com/draft2003/profiles/NikagbatseMisan.html)

I dont think hes the answer at all. I think if we wanted an undersized SG playing point we would turn to Andre Emmett from Texas Tech, Brandon Mouton from Texas, or Keith Triplett from Toledo.

Hitman
01-24-2004, 04:14 PM
Okafor would have been the third pick in the 2003 draft.

The guy is going to be a great NBA player.

Evilmav2
01-27-2004, 03:10 AM
"If I had [high school PG Sebastian] Telfair today," a Western Conference coach recently asserted, "I could beat the Kings tonight."

Hahahaha... This quotation gave me a good laugh. And it also makes me wonder, was the cited coach Mike Dunleavy or Greg Popovich?

OutletPass
01-27-2004, 05:34 AM
The only way the Mavs move up that high is to trade away Dirk. I don't think anyone wants that.

-- Sorry Mad, this was simply a draft discussion...no one advocated a trade up...

this is what I said to initiate the thread..."But there's a very interesting guy out here...and whoever gets him might get really lucky."


If I'm picking a center with my #1 pick....

--No one suggested that he was a C...just a 4...my comparisons were to other 4's in the league...so I have no idea why you jumped the shark.

Staying in the flow of the discussion is always appreciated.