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View Full Version : Great Scott.............Nets fire Byron Scott


NYCdog
01-26-2004, 11:20 AM
According to Marc Stein of ESPN, the Nets have fired Byron Scott........

more as details come in..........

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 11:23 AM
Scott fired by division-leading Nets

ESPN.com
Nets coach Byron Scott, one year removed from taking New Jersey to a second consecutive NBA Finals appearance, has been fired, league sources have told ESPN.com's Marc Stein.


The Nets are expected to announce the move at a 2 p.m. ET news conference, and assistant coach Lawrence Frank is expected to be named interim coach, the sources have told Stein.


New Jersey is scheduled to practice as usual at 1 p.m. ET today and Frank is expected to coach the session.


The Nets, an unspectacular 22-20 record with the All-Star break approaching, lead the 22-24 Celtics by two games in the Atlantic Division but have only the fifth-best record in the Eastern Conference.

story link......... (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1718853)

DNNF
01-26-2004, 12:08 PM
The article actually said that Kidd had something to do with Scott getting fired. Kidd should not be the one that talk. He played like shit this year. If kenyon want Scott fired, then it would be more approriate.

kg_veteran
01-26-2004, 12:30 PM
Pretty shocking move by the Nets.

madape
01-26-2004, 12:54 PM
It could have been us. Thank you Alonzo Mourning, for taking your diseased kidney with you to NBA purgatory. Your greed has cost your franchise millions of dollars, a million Net fans their hearts, your sister a kidney, and now Byron Scott his job. I hope that $20 million dollar paycheck keeps you happy, and that borrowed kidney keeps your blood nice and clean.

kingrex
01-26-2004, 01:04 PM
What a cruel post Madape, but oddly enough humorous. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Anyway, the Brooklyn Nets could do a lot worse than having Scott coach their team. I hope they have someone better in mind to coach, rather than placating an underacheiving bunch of prima donna players.

Good luck with all that!

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 01:17 PM
It could have been us. Thank you Alonzo Mourning, for taking your diseased kidney with you to NBA purgatory. Your greed has cost your franchise millions of dollars, a million Net fans their hearts, your sister a kidney, and now Byron Scott his job. I hope that $20 million dollar paycheck keeps you happy, and that borrowed kidney keeps your blood nice and clean.

This is the most classless garbage I have ever seen.

His greed?........if someone offered you $20 million dollars to be the best at what you love doing, like playing basketball, would you refuse it?

Call it a sneaky suspicion but........I think not............

And plus.......Mourning is not greedy. He is one of the most charitable players the NBA has probably ever known. Look at what he has done in Miami.

And that to you is being greedy. Zo should crush your poor little ass with that fat wallet he carries around for saying such an absurd thing like that.

The man just wanted to do the thing he loves to do and happens to be the best at........play basketball. Its not his fault that he had a kidney disease that robbed him of his career.

I would like to see how your pathetic ass would do with having a life threatening disease since you wanna talk so much smack about a human being who is in poor health.

MavKikiNYC
01-26-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Pretty shocking move by the Nets.

The timing may've been surprising, but the result was not. In fact, Scott's dismissal was pretty much inevitable. Might've made more sense earlier in the year so that they could've pulled in more than an interim guy, but the question of his firing was 'when' not 'if'.

The only positive that I ever saw out of Scott was his ability to project and attitude of bravado and toughness. But without the basketball IQ as a foundation, those are not nearly as valuable commodities. Nellie and Coach BS would in fact have pretty complementary coaching abilities, if you could combine Nellie's understanding of the game with BS's fighter mentality.

Idle speculation: Does anyone else wonder if the Nets might be a good situation for Nellie to land in--being the responsibility of coalescing some increasingly disparate talent into an entertaining team to attract fans, without the responsibility/burden of GM-ing, which Rod Thorn handles pretty capably? Just wondering.....

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 01:25 PM
but oddly enough humorous

There is NOTHING humorous about kicking another human being when he/she is down and in poor health.

kingrex
01-26-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by: NYCdog

but oddly enough humorous

There is NOTHING humorous about kicking another human being when he/she is down and in poor health.

You're right there is nothing humorous about Mourning's condition. The humor I found was more in how much the Mavs wanted Mourning and in how they came out better for not "winning" the Mourning-lottery.

I didn't think I had to explain myself, but in an effort to throw a bone to the NYCdog I just did.

kg_veteran
01-26-2004, 01:38 PM
Didn't Mourning conceal the extent of his true physical condition from the Nets? Do you think the Nets would have signed him to the huge contract if they had been allowed to put him through a complete and thorough physical examination first and review his medical records?

One has to wonder...

MavKikiNYC
01-26-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by: madape
It could have been us. Thank you Alonzo Mourning, for taking your diseased kidney with you to NBA purgatory. Your greed has cost your franchise millions of dollars, a million Net fans their hearts, your sister a kidney, and now Byron Scott his job. I hope that $20 million dollar paycheck keeps you happy, and that borrowed kidney keeps your blood nice and clean.

A couple of things, Ape....

First off, Mourning did NOT cost Scott his job. There have been calls for Scott's head for the last couple of years (rumored to've been led by Kidd), long before Mourning arrived on the scene.

Second, I have my suspicions too about how much Mourning and his physicians must've known and the extent of his disease and about his prospects for lasting more than the couple of months he did. But frankly, I think this happens fairly frequently in disability cases, and while the scale of Mourning's case was rather larger, the concept isn't all that different.

Third, as far as I'm concerned, Mourning's signing veritably screamed caveat emptor. The person(s) responsible for offering Mourning that contract should have been more diligent and/or more cautious about investing those kinds of bucks with what you and I could tell were damaged goods. I have maintained that Thorn paid Mourning that outrageious contract in order to increase his chances of keeping Kidd, so that you can just tack the cost of Mourning's contract onto Kidd's. Losing Kidd definitely would've taken the air out of the franchise and greatly diminished the value of the franchise, at a time when they were trying to complete a sale. Thorn HAD to keep Kidd in Jersey, and if buying Mourning a $20M retirement gift was what it took, he had to do it.

Fourth, I have never quite been able to piece together the jaggedness of your antipathy toward Mourning. I was totally against the Mavs pursuing him, but it was because I thought it was a bad idea, not because I saw Mourning as a bad person. If you can articulate your animus against him here, I'd be interested to see it. But to just keep posting shots at Mourning that sound to be no more than reveling in the misfortune of a person who has become disabled sends a vibe out on the board that (I hope) only a couple of people seem to be able to get into.

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 01:42 PM
The humor I found was more in how much the Mavs wanted Mourning and in how they came out better for not "winning" the Mourning-lottery.

I didn't think I had to explain myself, but in an effort to throw a bone to the NYCdog I just did.

I understand where you are comin from.........but understand this.

There isnt much humor to be found in the Mourning lottery and its outcome.

Its an unfortunate situation for all involved, the player, the team, and the fans.

Its something I wish not happen at all to any other player on any team. Not even Karl Malone.

MightyToine
01-26-2004, 01:46 PM
As a Former Celtic Fan, all I have to say about this news is :




BAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHHHAHHHAHAAHAHAHHHAHA HHHHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!



AW must be loving life right now. He gets his revenge on K-Mart with BS being the witness to it, and now the coach gets canned!! BEAUTIFUL. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

kingrex
01-26-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by: NYCdog

The humor I found was more in how much the Mavs wanted Mourning and in how they came out better for not "winning" the Mourning-lottery.

I didn't think I had to explain myself, but in an effort to throw a bone to the NYCdog I just did.

I understand where you are comin from.........but understand this.

There isnt much humor to be found in the Mourning lottery and its outcome.

Its an unfortunate situation for all involved, the player, the team, and the fans.

Its something I wish not happen at all to any other player on any team. Not even Karl Malone.

Well now your going too far if you say that Karl Malone doesn't deserve it. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Drbio
01-26-2004, 02:36 PM
The firing is not really that surprising. The team was just sold and the new owner may have designs on his own coach. It's surprising from a basketball standpoint, but the sale probably played a bigger role in this move than the teams standing.


As for Mourning, yes, he concealed his true level of kidney decline. We discussed this ad naseum in earlier threads when we were still in the running to sign Zo. Zo is a great guy, but he knew damn good and well that he wouldn't see the end of the contract. So, get off madape's backside regarding that point. The ape is spot on. I stated that Zo wouldn't make the end of the first season and got laughed at. I guess all of that post graduate training finally came through.

*kisses*

Doc

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 03:22 PM
So, get off madape's backside regarding that point. The ape is spot on.

Drbio,

C'mon now.............get off ape's backside?

Are you kidding me?

He deserved all of it and more for those insensative comments. If Ape had kept his point to were it was JUST about basketball, I could see your point.

But he went way beyond basketball.

Comments like "he costed his sister a kidney."

If his sister wasnt generous and caring enough, NOT having her kidney might have costed Zo HIS LIFE.

I dont care if you and Ape were right or wrong about Zo not making his contract.

Forget basketball for a second people, were talkin about a man's life.

And Ape went too far on this one..........So tell me, why should I, or ANYONE, get off his backside?i/expressions/rolleye.gif

kingrex
01-26-2004, 03:35 PM
I grant you that the MadApe is quite full-throttle in his comments, and maybe he doesn't deserve as much slack as many give him.

However, that's just he MadApe. Don't take him too seriously. His posts have more than its fair share of shock-value. Don't let it get you worked up too much.

On the other hand, I do enjoy a good verbal scrum once in a while. In the same vein that they allow fighting in hockey. Just don't let it dominate the thread.

Big Boy Laroux
01-26-2004, 03:49 PM
i don't want to speak for madape...

ok, i will. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

i know in the past, i have agreed with madape on his dislike for zo. for the following reasons: zo did this to himself. he abused painkillers. did he need the painkillers? yeah, i'm sure he was hurting. but it's his over-use of those painkillers that put him in this situation. i never liked zo to begin with, and pardon me if i don't pity someone who has to deal with the consequences of their actions.

do i wish death on zo? of course not. but i'm not going to fawn all over the guy and join the nba pity party for him.

LRB
01-26-2004, 04:04 PM
So now that Byron Scott has been fired will we start seeing rumors that Cubes is going to fire Nellie and hire Scott?

kingrex
01-26-2004, 04:08 PM
Can you imagine what a furor that would cause if Cuban fired Nellie on the heels of an 8-game winning streak? It would be breaking news from Sportscenter to the Sporting News.

LRB
01-26-2004, 04:10 PM
Just think of the free advertizing? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

madape
01-26-2004, 04:20 PM
And that to you is being greedy. Zo should crush your poor little ass with that fat wallet he carries around for saying such an absurd thing like that.

The man just wanted to do the thing he loves to do and happens to be the best at........play basketball. Its not his fault that he had a kidney disease that robbed him of his career.

I would like to see how your pathetic ass would do with having a life threatening disease since you wanna talk so much smack about a human being who is in poor health.

No the only thing "classless" here is Alonzo Mourning misleading Maverick ownership (and Jason Kidd) into thinking he was capable of playing four more years of basketball. He had no plans to play out his contract. It was a blatant money grab. He and his agent wanted one more payday before he retired, before it became painfully obvious to him and his accountant that there would be no more basketball related revenue for Zo unless something was done quickly. His kidney was decaying and the clock was ticking. There was no consideration as to who he would hurt in his last grasp for cash, or who would be impacted by his deplorable scheme. He is a thief. A lying scoundrel who seeks out those who would trust him, and then exploits their naivite for personal profit. While he's lounging in a Vegas gentlemens' club stuffing $500 casino chips into strippers G-strings, those who loved him are left with a big fat check. Risking his own life? Bullshit I say. He risked his sister's life. He already had one foot in the grave (I wont even begin to bring up the suspicious ways in which Alonzo's kidney disease was brought about. But I will say that if Mourning was an honorable man, he wouldn't have a problem right now.). The need for an implant was inevitable. But the word is that he knowingly accelerated his decline with his workout routine. Now his sister has a foot in the grave, too. Maybe he just wanted company, but It's obvious that he values cash over his own sister's health.

Of course, this was all in the plan. So what are we supposed to say when the walls come tumbling down? "Oh, that Alonzo. He was such a great player. He has so much heart".

That's what he wants you to say.

But I say the only heart this man has is a currupt, black, evil heart. Greed is his business. And business is pretty good right now for Alonzo. He's going to get paid $5 million a year over the next four years for doing absolutely nothing. He's got a new kindney, a great life, and a bunch of idiots prasing him for how couragous he is. What a load of shit.

kiwi
01-26-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by: MightyToine
As a Former Celtic Fan, all I have to say about this news is :




BAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHHHAHHHAHAAHAHAHHHAHA HHHHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!



AW must be loving life right now. He gets his revenge on K-Mart with BS being the witness to it, and now the coach gets canned!! BEAUTIFUL. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif


I am nearly as embarrassed that you are a former Celtic Fan, as people here are that you're a current Mavs Fan

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 04:43 PM
Hey, I understand that's just MadApe being himself. I understand a person being "full throttle" in there opinions. But sometimes, a person just has to know when they might be going a little too far. I just felt that MadApe went a little too far on this one and had to respond with my own "full-throttle" opinion.


know in the past, i have agreed with madape on his dislike for zo. for the following reasons: zo did this to himself. he abused painkillers. did he need the painkillers? yeah, i'm sure he was hurting. but it's his over-use of those painkillers that put him in this situation. i never liked zo to begin with, and pardon me if i don't pity someone who has to deal with the consequences of their actions.

As for this, true Zo did probably did bring this upon himself. But on the other hand, I can understand the use of pain killers. Sometimes, the pain might have just hurt so much that you have no other choice but to resort to the use of pain killers. Sure, you can ignore it. But if it persists to a point where its no longer tolerable, what is one to do? The use of pain killers is almost justifiable at this point.

Point is, this is a totally different situation. Its not like Zo's kidney disease resulted from the dileberate abuse of alcohol or anything along those lines. And its not like Zo was dileberately abusing the pain killers to obtain a "high" off of. Zo was in a situation were he had to use those pain killers for relief. You cant fault the guy for that.

I'm not suggesting anyone jump on the "NBA Pity Party" for Zo. Just cut the guy a little slack.

LRB
01-26-2004, 04:49 PM
Sometimes, the pain might have just hurt so much that you have no other choice but to resort to the use of pain killers.

Well he could have stopped playing. If it hurts so bad that you have to abuse painkillers, you should stop playing to see if that can help you control the pain.

madape
01-26-2004, 05:13 PM
Painkillers are a performance enhancing dug. They give those who abuse them an unnatural advantage over those who choose not to. It is well noted that they are extremely dangerous.

Sorry, there is no room for using dangerious drugs to gain an advantage in sports.

At this point, I think you need to look at the legacy of Alonzo's career just as you would the careers of guys like Llyle Alzado, Mark Gastinau, and Brian Bosworth. How good was he, really? Before his body started to rot from the inside, he was considered to be an underdog who through an overabundance of heart and determination was able to compete with guys much bigger and stronger than him. But how much merit should we give to Alonzo's "heart", when his "heart" came in a bottle with a cotton ball on top? Zo had a choice - to honorably deal with the pain in the way NBA players have been dealing with it for decades, or to end the pain with drugs. He chose drugs.

Big Boy Laroux
01-26-2004, 05:15 PM
exactly, LRB. and nycdog, the relief of pain that one gets from precription painkillers certainly could be considered a high. at least in my opinion. especially when used in the amounts that zo must have used them.

and we have no idea if he was using them for that reason. we don't know if he was addicted. but he certainly could have retired, like LRB said. it's not like he hadn't made enough money.

MavKikiNYC
01-26-2004, 05:23 PM
Alonzo Mourning Out For The Season Due To A Kidney Disorder.(Brief Article)
Jet, Oct 30, 2000

Alonzo Mourning, Olympic basketball gold medalist and center for the Miami Heat, will sit out for all of the 2000-2001 NBA season because of a kidney disorder discovered during a routine physical exam given prior to training camp.

Dr. Gerald Appel, one of the physicians treating Mourning, identified his ailment as Focal Glomerulosclerosis.

"It is extremely common in young people, and especially in young African-Americans," said Apple, the director of clinical nephrology at Columbia University.

Appel said kidneys of people with this condition leak protein into their urine. Without treatment, filters in the kidneys eventually become scarred, cease to function and a transplant is needed.

"I am confident this is not related to HIV, drug abuse or anything Alonzo did," Appel said, adding that the origin of Mourning's condition is unknown.

Appel said that Mourning will be placed on a six-month trial of medical treatment. But even with the treatment, over 50 percent of cases develop chronic renal failure, he said. The kidney disorder used to be the fourth-largest cause of death in the United States.

Dr. Victor Richards, another doctor treating the star athlete, said Mourning has not been placed on a waiting list for a kidney transplant because doctors diagnosed his condition in its early stage and hope to keep it from worsening.

Doctors initially suspected that Mourning, 30, simply had a viral infection, thyroid condition or merely fatigue from a busy off-season.

During the month of August Mourning traveled with the U.S. basketball team for close to six weeks, racking up more than 40,000 air miles. He went to New York, Hawaii, Japan and Australia. While in Sydney he made a brief return home Miami to witness the birth of his second child. He then returned to Australia to help the American basketball team win the Olympic gold medal.

NYCdog
01-26-2004, 05:30 PM
No the only thing "classless" here is Alonzo Mourning misleading Maverick ownership (and Jason Kidd) into thinking he was capable of playing four more years of basketball. He had no plans to play out his contract. It was a blatant money grab. He and his agent wanted one more payday before he retired, before it became painfully obvious to him and his accountant that there would be no more basketball related revenue for Zo unless something was done quickly. His kidney was decaying and the clock was ticking. There was no consideration as to who he would hurt in his last grasp for cash, or who would be impacted by his deplorable scheme. He is a thief. A lying scoundrel who seeks out those who would trust him, and then exploits their naivite for personal profit. While he's lounging in a Vegas gentlemens' club stuffing $500 casino chips into strippers G-strings, those who loved him are left with a big fat check. Risking his own life? Bullshit I say. He risked his sister's life. He already had one foot in the grave (I wont even begin to bring up the suspicious ways in which Alonzo's kidney disease was brought about. But I will say that if Mourning was an honorable man, he wouldn't have a problem right now.). The need for an implant was inevitable. But the word is that he knowingly accelerated his decline with his workout routine. Now his sister has a foot in the grave, too. Maybe he just wanted company, but It's obvious that he values cash over his own sister's health.

Of course, this was all in the plan. So what are we supposed to say when the walls come tumbling down? "Oh, that Alonzo. He was such a great player. He has so much heart".

That's what he wants you to say.

But I say the only heart this man has is a currupt, black, evil heart. Greed is his business. And business is pretty good right now for Alonzo. He's going to get paid $5 million a year over the next four years for doing absolutely nothing. He's got a new kindney, a great life, and a bunch of idiots prasing him for how couragous he is. What a load of shit.


MadApe,

Your ridiculous analysis is TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!

I suppose you said the same thing about Sean Elliott when he went through the same EXACT kidney disease (focal glomerulosclerosis) and tried to make a comeback, huh?

Remember, when he tried to make his comeback in 2001...........he too was forced to retire soon after, just like Zo.

Why?

The reason is pretty much the same as Zo's. With the condition they both have, a return to vigorous physical activity can cause "rapid deterioration" of there kidney function, thus resulting possibly in kidney failure. But as long as they keep up treatment and dont push themselves too much they could play in the NBA, in fact, for years.

There is no way either Zo or Elliott could tell if there kidney's would hold up to activity in the NBA. Under there condition, they could still feel well and fit, but the chemical imbalances in there blood could make it dangerous too for them to play without either of them knowing it.

Think of it as a silent time bomb inside of you.........there is now way of telling when it could go off. You could last four years, or you could last four weeks......there is simply no way of telling.

So how can you say he KNEW he wasnt going to last the length of his contract when there was a possibility he could, but he and his doctors just didnt know?

And are both of these gentlemen of the NBA (Zo and Elliott) really theives in your eyes?

I would like to see you in their situation.........let me talk smack to you then......see how you feel as I call you a thief as your kidneys fail.

Under their condition, I bet you wouldnt last a second.

Big Boy Laroux
01-26-2004, 05:39 PM
kiki, thanks for the article. but i still think he accelerated his condition.

i like sean elliott a lot, but also think he accelerated his condition as well.

perhaps zo's doctors had a stake in his future career. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

madape
01-26-2004, 05:42 PM
[i]Dr. Gerald Appel, one of the physicians treating Mourning, identified his ailment as Focal Glomerulosclerosis.

So a doctor on Alonzo's payroll tells a newspaper that Mourning didn't get the disease from drugs. What a surpise. Shit, man. Give me a thousand bucks and I'll tell the world the same thing. Money makes the world go round.

What's going rate on professional integrity these days? Ask Alonzo Mourning.

MavKikiNYC
01-26-2004, 05:51 PM
A lot of the speculative comments made here are somewhat troubling.

On the one hand, I can understand people's wondering, speculating or even believing that an athlete might be using painkillers in ways that the majority of the population don't. But is that drug abuse? Would we believe the same thing of people who WERE NOT high profile athletes? And yet, as the article below points out, this used to be the fourth-leading cause of death in the United States. (Is this accurate?)

Given that frequency of the disease, and given that the incidence of his disease is higher among African-Americans, and given that there is NO EVIDENCE that he fall under one of the other high-risk categories (HIV, drug abuse, intraveinous drug abuser), I'm inclined to hold back any accusations of drug abuse, until more HARD information is available.

If anyone else has seen any published reports, or has any slightly more tangible indication that abuse of painkillers was the cause of Mourning's disease, I think it would be an interesting read. If not, ít's not much different than garden variety chat-board defammation to condemn him for drug abuse, and to suggest that he got what he deserved.

And if painkillers constitute drug abuse, what about anti-inflammatory drugs? What about alcohol? Wasn't there a fairly high-profile case from a few years ago of a functionary in GHW Bush's adminstration who caused his kidney's to fail by consuming Tylenol and red wine for an extended period of time? The guy wasn't necessarily abusing either Tylenol or alcohol, but the combination had unknown effects over the long term.

It's very plausible to me that Mourning had some predisposition to this disease that even a moderate level of legal drug use could have aggravated. But I would be hard-pressed to legitimately call that drug abuse, nor can I buy in to the idea that painkillers are performance-enhancing drugs.

As for whehter Mourning defrauded the Nets (or the Mavericks, or the Heat, or whomever) --again, anyone signing him to that kind of deal given his KNOWN history, should've been more diligent. There were posters on THIS board who saw the huge risk to signing him. I find it impossible to believe that the people who commited to paying him didn't realize what they were getting into.

Nicky31
01-26-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio
The firing is not really that surprising. The team was just sold and the new owner may have designs on his own coach. It's surprising from a basketball standpoint, but the sale probably played a bigger role in this move than the teams standing.


As for Mourning, yes, he concealed his true level of kidney decline. We discussed this ad naseum in earlier threads when we were still in the running to sign Zo. Zo is a great guy, but he knew damn good and well that he wouldn't see the end of the contract. So, get off madape's backside regarding that point. The ape is spot on. I stated that Zo wouldn't make the end of the first season and got laughed at. I guess all of that post graduate training finally came through.

*kisses*

Doc


Sorry Doc..I must disagree about his firing because of new ownership (granted I'm sure that had alot to do with the decision making, but as far as the justification I disagree)..what if Nellie had taken this Mav's team to the NBA finals ever year as a the head coach, and then gets fired the following year. Would Mav's fans be shocked; I would have to say I personally would be...

Big Boy Laroux
01-26-2004, 06:18 PM
kiki, i don't consider it drug abuse in the same sense as a heavy cocaine, heroin, steroid, etc. user. my whole thing here that i'm not going to feel sorry for a guy that aggravted his condition (if we can even believe the doctor that says it's a condition independent of the use of painkillers).

i'll be honest and say i don't know all the details (only zo really does). but i've never really liked zo, and his having a kidney disease and transplant won't change that.

kingrex
01-26-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by: Nicky31

Originally posted by: Drbio
The firing is not really that surprising. The team was just sold and the new owner may have designs on his own coach. It's surprising from a basketball standpoint, but the sale probably played a bigger role in this move than the teams standing.


As for Mourning, yes, he concealed his true level of kidney decline. We discussed this ad naseum in earlier threads when we were still in the running to sign Zo. Zo is a great guy, but he knew damn good and well that he wouldn't see the end of the contract. So, get off madape's backside regarding that point. The ape is spot on. I stated that Zo wouldn't make the end of the first season and got laughed at. I guess all of that post graduate training finally came through.

*kisses*

Doc

Sorry Doc..I must disagree about his firing because of new ownership (granted I'm sure that had alot to do with the decision making, but as far as the justification I disagree)..what if Nellie had taken this Mav's team to the NBA finals ever year as a the head coach, and then gets fired the following year. Would Mav's fans be shocked; I would have to say I personally would be...

I don't mean to speak for the good doctor, but I think he meant that anytime there is a major change like the ownership of the team, there tends to follow a cleaning out of the barn. That usually starts at the top with either the GM and/or head coach and usually his staff being replaced. In this case, they preferred to keep the assistant as interim coach, but that's not so unusual either.

madape
01-26-2004, 06:59 PM
MadApe,

Your ridiculous analysis is TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!

I suppose you said the same thing about Sean Elliott when he went through the same EXACT kidney disease (focal glomerulosclerosis) and tried to make a comeback, huh?

Remember, when he tried to make his comeback in 2001...........he too was forced to retire soon after, just like Zo.

Why?

The reason is pretty much the same as Zo's. With the condition they both have, a return to vigorous physical activity can cause "rapid deterioration" of there kidney function, thus resulting possibly in kidney failure. But as long as they keep up treatment and dont push themselves too much they could play in the NBA, in fact, for years.

There is no way either Zo or Elliott could tell if there kidney's would hold up to activity in the NBA. Under there condition, they could still feel well and fit, but the chemical imbalances in there blood could make it dangerous too for them to play without either of them knowing it.

Think of it as a silent time bomb inside of you.........there is now way of telling when it could go off. You could last four years, or you could last four weeks......there is simply no way of telling.

So how can you say he KNEW he wasnt going to last the length of his contract when there was a possibility he could, but he and his doctors just didnt know?

And are both of these gentlemen of the NBA (Zo and Elliott) really theives in your eyes?

I would like to see you in their situation.........let me talk smack to you then......see how you feel as I call you a thief as your kidneys fail.

Under their condition, I bet you wouldnt last a second.

Classic.

Not only are you trying to defend Alonzo's actions based on the previous failures of others in his position, you actaully try to legitimize it by accusing ME, a man whom you have never met, of being incapable of making the same poor decisions.

I'm not going to get into this game of comparing Alonzo and Elliot to determine which is worse. What Alonzo did was bad enough.

I think all the signs point to this being money grab - the insistence upon a multi-term guaranteed deal, the refusal to be checked out by ANY team doctors before the contract was signed. If Alonzo had faith in himself, he would have taken a one or two year deal, confident that he'd get a big payday at the end after he proved his worth. Instead, he negotiated a deal that would get him as much money as he could immediately.

MavsKiki is right, I think any responsible organization should have seen through the sham. The Nets probably knew better, but they did what that had to do to keep Kidd. But it is still thievery none the less. Jason Kidd, the stupid gullible fool that he is, bought into Zo's story hook line and sinker. He then extorted money out of his team to fund Mourning's flim flam scam. Now he's left with seven more years committed to a team with no center, no salary cap room, and no hope of returning to the Eastern Conference championip any time soon. It's hard to label Kidd a victim because he was such a willing conspirator. But it's hard not to feel sorry for the guy. It's hard not to feel sorry for any of the people who have been hurt in Zo's latest mad dash for cash.

Nicky31
01-27-2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by: kingrex

Originally posted by: Nicky31

Originally posted by: Drbio
The firing is not really that surprising. The team was just sold and the new owner may have designs on his own coach. It's surprising from a basketball standpoint, but the sale probably played a bigger role in this move than the teams standing.


As for Mourning, yes, he concealed his true level of kidney decline. We discussed this ad naseum in earlier threads when we were still in the running to sign Zo. Zo is a great guy, but he knew damn good and well that he wouldn't see the end of the contract. So, get off madape's backside regarding that point. The ape is spot on. I stated that Zo wouldn't make the end of the first season and got laughed at. I guess all of that post graduate training finally came through.

*kisses*

Doc



Sorry Doc..I must disagree about his firing because of new ownership (granted I'm sure that had alot to do with the decision making, but as far as the justification I disagree)..what if Nellie had taken this Mav's team to the NBA finals ever year as a the head coach, and then gets fired the following year. Would Mav's fans be shocked; I would have to say I personally would be...

I don't mean to speak for the good doctor, but I think he meant that anytime there is a major change like the ownership of the team, there tends to follow a cleaning out of the barn. That usually starts at the top with either the GM and/or head coach and usually his staff being replaced. In this case, they preferred to keep the assistant as interim coach, but that's not so unusual either.


I understand the point your trying to make Kingrex, but I have to think what Bill Parcell's said about the Cowboy's defense and keeping Mike Zimmerman is very fitting in this situation "if it's not broke than don't fix it"...

MightyToine
01-27-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by: kiwi

Originally posted by: MightyToine
As a Former Celtic Fan, all I have to say about this news is :




BAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHHHAHHHAHAAHAHAHHHAHA HHHHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!



AW must be loving life right now. He gets his revenge on K-Mart with BS being the witness to it, and now the coach gets canned!! BEAUTIFUL. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif


I am nearly as embarrassed that you are a former Celtic Fan, as people here are that you're a current Mavs Fan

As *I* am that you are a Celtic Fan who is currently hanging out at a messageboard OTHER Than the Team you root for (Celtics).


Exactly.

kingrex
01-27-2004, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by: Nicky31

Originally posted by: kingrex

Originally posted by: Nicky31

Originally posted by: Drbio
The firing is not really that surprising. The team was just sold and the new owner may have designs on his own coach. It's surprising from a basketball standpoint, but the sale probably played a bigger role in this move than the teams standing.




Sorry Doc..I must disagree about his firing because of new ownership (granted I'm sure that had alot to do with the decision making, but as far as the justification I disagree)..what if Nellie had taken this Mav's team to the NBA finals ever year as a the head coach, and then gets fired the following year. Would Mav's fans be shocked; I would have to say I personally would be...

I don't mean to speak for the good doctor, but I think he meant that anytime there is a major change like the ownership of the team, there tends to follow a cleaning out of the barn. That usually starts at the top with either the GM and/or head coach and usually his staff being replaced. In this case, they preferred to keep the assistant as interim coach, but that's not so unusual either.


I understand the point your trying to make Kingrex, but I have to think what Bill Parcell's said about the Cowboy's defense and keeping Mike Zimmerman is very fitting in this situation "if it's not broke than don't fix it"...

I don't agree with the decision myself, but if the players are no longer responding to the coach, as the case seems to be here, management has a choice. Unfortunately, management ususally sides with the more handsomely-paid players over the coach.

EricaLubarsky
01-27-2004, 06:45 PM
I wonder if this is New Jersey's year to make the lottery or if it will take a year.

They are only 2 games over .500

in the West 10 teams have won at least 22 games.

kingrex
01-27-2004, 06:55 PM
When will they officially by the "Brooklyn Nets"? Next season or when?

NYCdog
01-27-2004, 07:31 PM
When will they officially by the "Brooklyn Nets"? Next season or when?

Fall 2006 is the scheduled opening date for the arena. So by then............

But I would expect the ball to get rolling sooner if the arena gets by local opposition and gets off the ground as fast as expected. Cuase no doubt, if everything goes as smooth as expected in regards to the move to Brooklyn, then the Nets can expect weak attendance figures if the stay the remaining two seasons in Jersey, which in hindsight would become lame-duck seasons. And with there payroll as well as there high playoff expectations, staying in Jersey wouldnt be a smart move.

So If everything goes according to plan, I would expect them to break the lease and leave Jersey ASAP fory NYC and play the next two seasons in a tremporary home in either the Garden or in L.I. If this happens(which I expect), expect the name and logo changed to "Brooklyn" much sooner then expected in 2006.

NYCdog
01-27-2004, 08:56 PM
MadApe.........your really something man.

Just when I thought it couldnt get any worse...it does.

You try and argue your point with me by........misinterpreting everything I said !?!.......LOL WTF!!!i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Do you not understand English?

Shall I breakdown everything I stated in the past so you can understand and comprehend that "mix of letters" (a.k.a. POST) I throw on your computer screen?

Fine........


Not only are you trying to defend Alonzo's actions based on the previous failures of others in his position, you actaully try to legitimize it by accusing ME, a man whom you have never met, of being incapable of making the same poor decisions.

Accuse you of being incapable of making the same POOR DECISIONS?

What poor decisions am I accusing you of.........please alert me.

To refresh your memory.........This was what I said.


I would like to see you in their situation.........let me talk smack to you then......see how you feel as I call you a thief as your kidneys fail.

Under their condition, I bet you wouldnt last a second.

Lets break it down...........step by freakin stepi/expressions/rolleye.gif

"LIKE TO SEE YOU IN THEIR SITUATION" ..........meaning you having the same kidney disease.................did you get that? Or do you actually need further explaination?

And I know what your going to say...........your going to try using your famous "Zo's addiction to pain killers" excuse...........save it, kid !

Time for me to bust that worthless excuse up...........

According to some research I did (in which I did NOT consult Zo's doctor.......) the kidney disease he has (focal glomerulosclerosis) has currently no know cause listed in most cases. The only causes listed in other cases are people who have sickle cell disease or remnant kidneys.

And while an addiction to pain killers can damage your kidney's, it is NOT known to cause focal glomerulosclerosis.

What do you got to say about that, huh??????

Research it here.......... (http://www.kidney.org/general/atoz/content/focalglom.html)

"LET ME TALK SMACK ABOUT YOU THEN.........SEE HOW YOU FEEL"..............meaning putting you in Alonzo's current state, in his shoes with the kidney disease while I talk smack about you.......behind your back even, as in this case.

"UNDER THERE CONDITION, I BET YOU WOULDNT LAST A SECOND!"..............meaning that under there circumstances, you wouldnt be able to do what they are doing, playing basketball and trying to live a normal life.

So MadApe, where is this ridiculous accusation you claim I said of you being incapable of making the same POOR DECISIONS?

Seriously............I cant find it!!!!!!i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Next topic...........


I'm not going to get into this game of comparing Alonzo and Elliot to determine which is worse. What Alonzo did was bad enough.

And now here is what I said..........


And are both of these gentlemen of the NBA (Zo and Elliott) really theives in your eyes?

Am I asking you to compare ANYTHING????????

Nope.

Stop beating around the bush.

Simply answer the question........As much as of a gentlemen as Sean Elliott has been to the game of basketball and to the city of San Antonio, is he a thief, like Zo, in your eyes for doing the same thing Zo did..........trying to play basketball with a deadly disease?

Its a YES or NO question............I'm sure alot of Spurs fans here will pay close attention.........and maybe post their opinion too.

I leave you with one fact to ponder.........

Regarding Zo's kidney disease...........After a kidney transplant is performed, Focal glomerulosclerosis can reappear in the transplanted kidney. This may be more common when the kidney comes from a blood relative. But chances of this happening are slim.

Moreover, majority of patients after a kidney transplant, do not develop the disease again.

Meaning, as long as the disease does not reappear (which is unlikely), there is still a good chance for Zo to resume his career and play out the remaining years of his contract........thanks in part to the kidney he (as you termed it....) "borrowed" from his sister. i/expressions/rolleye.gif

And who knows, if everything goes smoothly, we could hear talk of Zo making, yet again, another comeback..........

One more thing.............

And I find it amusing that some people here say you go quite full throttle in your posts. Obviously, they have never really seen my post or rant......

I will be waiting in anticipation for your response.........So I can bust that pathetic garbage up too! i/expressions/rolleye.gif

NYCdog
01-27-2004, 09:20 PM
Now on to the original topic at hand.........


So now that Byron Scott has been fired will we start seeing rumors that Cubes is going to fire Nellie and hire Scott?

In regards to Scott's future, Dallas would be a good fit but I dont see Nellie being fired by Cuban.........at all. The only way Nellie will leave is if he resigns. Cubes has way too much respect for the guy as a coach to ax him.

The only place I can really see him is in LA, as Phil Jackson's replacement when "Big Chief Triangle" decides to hang up the clipboard in favor of being in the state of Zen and Montana.

Think about it..........Soctt might not be the greatest coach, but he has a great track record he got with the Nets to appease the needs of the local fan base for a winning head coach. And plus hiring a former Laker to be the coach in Laker-land would be a good promo move to keep the customer base in LA happy.

It all makes sense.

Big Boy Laroux
01-28-2004, 08:49 AM
nycdog... no offense, but if that was a rant, it's probably bottom 20 of all the rants ever posted on this site. and that sure as hell ain't no kg_veteran point-by-point breakdown. better luck next time.

NYCdog
01-28-2004, 10:58 AM
nycdog... no offense, but if that was a rant, it's probably bottom 20 of all the rants ever posted on this site. and that sure as hell ain't no kg_veteran point-by-point breakdown. better luck next time.

For reals........even with me blasting all of your opinions and theories of Zo getting kidney disease by abusing pain killers to bits and pieces by using hardcore FACTS and a link for you to research it yourself........Am I still that bad?

Damn I suck.

Geez........If I'm that bad, how far down below me does this put Mad Ape on your list? i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Big Boy Laroux
01-28-2004, 12:23 PM
did i ever say that what i was saying was fact? i admitted they were theories and my beliefs. and your "facts" about the disease are exactly that. facts about the disease. NOT facts about zo.

in addition, you can tout yourself as the greatest poster ever ("dude, i blasted you. so there") but it doesn't make it so.

NYCdog
01-28-2004, 06:18 PM
and your "facts" about the disease are exactly that. facts about the disease.

NOT facts about zo.

They dont need to be about Zo.

Your theory (below) was that his disease was probably due to his addiction to pain killers.


zo did this to himself. he abused painkillers. did he need the painkillers? yeah, i'm sure he was hurting. but it's his over-use of those painkillers that put him in this situation.

And this FACT BELOW I stated proves your theory to be WRONG.


And while an addiction to pain killers can damage your kidney's, it is NOT known to cause focal glomerulosclerosis.

So do I need any facts about Zo? Nope........

Why dont you (and Mad Ape) just push your hatred for Zo aside and just be a man and admit you were wrong instead of coming up with more excuses to prolong the arguement and the inevitable.


in addition, you can tout yourself as the greatest poster ever ("dude, i blasted you. so there") but it doesn't make it so.

When did I ever tout myself as the greatest poster ever?

Hell, I never even said anything remotely close to this.......

What I said was this.........


And I find it amusing that some people here say you go quite full throttle in your posts. Obviously, they have never really seen my post or rant......

And like it or not..........its true.

People here know you guys (Mad Ape/BBL) Both of you have been here for a long time. I'm sure they know your posting styles.

But have some of you seen me around a lot. Nope....... Have I been here long.......Nope. Have any of you seen me truly rant. Nope. I have had no real disagreements to argue about here until now.

I also found the analysis of Mad Ape's posting style to be quite ammusing since I didnt think his posts were as advertised to be, "Quite full throttle." I have seen many of his posts here and all around the board for a long time. I think he's quite tame compared to some of the other characters I've come across on the net. I dont think his level is quite full throttle. I've seen better......or worse, which ever you prefer to call it. And hell, I've been better.......or worse at times myself.

But I never touted myself as the greatest poster.

I even said "I sucked."

Maybe you should go and brush up on your reading and comprehension skills.

madape
01-28-2004, 06:36 PM
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SIGNS/Erewhon/children.jpg

Drbio
01-29-2004, 09:32 AM
all bark....no bite.

Big Boy Laroux
01-29-2004, 09:54 AM
hmmm... "it is not known" does not equal "it definitely does not"

so my theory (which I have admitted to being a theory) stills holds up. and yes, facts regarding zo's painkiller use are not known (again, something I said earlier). if you can prove to me factually that zo did not abuse painkillers, i'll concede and allow you to be the amazing poster you think you are. that way, you can tell all your friends that you're better than madape and me.

god, i need to retake all my standardized tests. my reading comprehension scores must have been a lie.

methinks you need to stop being so literal. you said you blasted madape and me. I see that as you touting yourself. thus you thinking you are a better poster.

more power to you. your parents must be so proud.

NYCdog
01-29-2004, 05:01 PM
so my theory (which I have admitted to being a theory) stills holds up. and yes, facts regarding zo's painkiller use are not known (again, something I said earlier). if you can prove to me factually that zo did not abuse painkillers, i'll concede and allow you to be the amazing poster you think you are.

Tell you what, BBL.........I will do you one better.

Since I am about getting the actual facts correct instead of making myself look good in an arguement as you claim, I will provide an article that will prove that ALL of OUR theories (Mine, yours and MadApe's) are both RIGHT and yet............WRONG!

This article should set the WHOLE RECORD STRAIGHT regarding Alonzo Mourning, his addiction with pain killers, his kideny disease, and his desire to play........

Just read..........

For Alonzo Mourning, it's time to savor the moments
By OHM YOUNGMISUK
New York Daily News

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. - It's early October and the New Jersey Nets have just completed a meaningless preseason game against the Knicks when Richard Jefferson yells for teammates to hurry up and get on the bus so the Nets can bolt out of Wilkes-Barre, Pa.

One Net, though, is taking his sweet time in the nearly empty locker room. Sitting in a corner, Alonzo Mourning, covered with ice bags, is admiring a fresh tattoo on his chiseled left shoulder.

"I miss mixing it up, I miss that right there," Mourning says as he points to a long red scratch on his shoulder that some Knick left on him like a claw mark. "I just miss everything."

Not long ago, the addition of another battle scar might've put a scowl on Mourning's face. These days, Mourning cherishes every moment, every second, every scratch he gets on the court. That's what a year away from basketball can do. That's what a kidney disease called focal segmental glomerulosclerosis can do.

Ignoring the pleas from his parents, family, friends and even rivals like Shaquille O'Neal to retire, Mourning is making a comeback with the Nets hoping that he still has enough basketball in him to win a title before his kidney disease forces him to require a transplant or dialysis.

"I just told them that my body and my mind wasn't ready yet to stop," says Mourning, who has raised $2.4 million for his "Fund for Life" to find a cure for kidney disease. "I want to stop on my own terms. If I die today, I won't be content with how I approached the opportunity that was presented to me to possibly win a championship."

That's why Mourning, 33, has his blood drawn weekly, why he drinks as many fluids as he can, why he stays away from mouthwatering fried foods and why he swallows a cocktail of pills and vitamins daily. His obsession with winning a title is just as much a part of him as the disease that has reduced him to a 26-minute-a-night role player. While the Nets know they are not getting the Alonzo Mourning of the '90s, they are gambling a guaranteed $22 million over four years that they will have the best center in the East, the big man who can help Jason Kidd snap a two-year Finals losing spell.

"I am not going to sit here and tell you that I am going to be the Alonzo Mourning of four years ago, back in Game 7 of the 2000 playoffs against the Knicks," Mourning says. "But I will tell you this: Every second that I am out there on the court, I am going to play it like it is my last."

Mourning of four years ago was a shot-blocking, rebound-snatching, slam-dunking, scowling behemoth who felt "invincible." He averaged 21.7 points, 9.5 rebounds, 3.7 blocks and was Defensive Player of the Year for the second straight year in 1999-2000. The season before, he finished second in MVP voting behind Karl Malone.

"I just felt like I could do anything, anytime I wanted to," Mourning says. "And nobody could stop me. I felt like I was going to play until I was 45. It seemed like any type of injury that I got, all I had to do was wrap it up, ice it or put a Band-Aid on it."

Or pop an Advil or two. Mourning downed pain-killers like M&M's.

"That was pretty much my crutch," Mourning says. "I paid for it."


Mourning never felt more human, more vulnerable than the day he was told of his disease over the phone. Mourning was initially informed that he would be on dialysis in a matter of months and the center believes that years of pain-killers contributed to his ailment. Typically, 50 percent of patients with Mourning's disease - which damages the kidney's filtration system and allows protein to leak into the urine - will have kidney failure within five to 10 years after diagnosis, according to Dr. Ira Greifer, the president of the Kidney & Urology Foundation of America.

Mourning, though, hasn't needed dialysis or a transplant like former Spurs forward Sean Elliott, who had the same ailment but underwent a transplant operation in August of 1999. Mourning played 13 games in the 2000-2001 season before logging 79 games in 2001-2002. Mourning's condition, though, deteriorated after he failed to follow his medical regimen properly that summer. Some of Mourning's peers feared the worst and hoped Mourning wouldn't attempt another comeback.

"I know how to separate real life from fairy-tale life," O'Neal, one of Mourning's biggest rivals, said last year. "Real life is, of course, his beautiful wife, his beautiful children. Fairy-tale life is basketball life that pays us a lot of money. If he's in danger in real life, then he should retire."

Mourning, though, was cleared by doctors to return in May, assured that basketball isn't putting his life in further peril. If anything, it's helping him stave off dialysis.

Mourning is in the best shape of his life, having sculpted his body down to just 5 1/2 percent body fat. Nets president Rod Thorn was convinced Mourning was worth the risk when he watched the center work out in June and talked to his doctors. Of course, it didn't hurt that Kidd, also a free agent, wanted Mourning aboard as well.

While nobody can predict Mourning's health, the Nets are comforted by the fact that he is only a 20-minute drive away from his primary doctor, Gerald Appel, the director of clinical nephrology at Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center. Mourning, who used to have to see a nephrologist in Miami while also having to fly to visit Appel occasionally, meets with Appel weekly while also being closely monitored by the Nets' medical staff.

Appel says the fact that Mourning is playing for a loaded team like the Nets can only help his patient since Mourning no longer will have to play heavy minutes while carrying the stress of being a franchise player. However, Appel cautions that the center's condition is unpredictable and can worsen at any moment.

"Because he is only in a partial remission, I don't want people to think he is cured by no means," says Appel, who can now watch Mourning play in person. "If at any point I thought his kidney condition deteriorated, that would be it."

"I cannot predict (anything)," Appel adds. "That is the biggest problem. We are saying we are doing this one game, one day at a time."

Because of his weakened immune system, a cold could set Mourning back for weeks. In the `01-02 season, the Georgetown product missed seven games due to a virus and flu. The Nets, though, plan to limit the seven-time All-Star and two-time Defensive Player of Year to a total of 26 minutes a game.

"He won't end up playing 30 (minutes) because, to me, his health is a lot more important than winning a basketball game . . . even if he begs," Byron Scott vows.

Says Mourning, "People don't realize how much I did to get myself ready to play (preseason) games. I want to look at all the work I have done over the years, win a championship and say it was all worthwhile. I still feel I can do more than what people think I can do. I am not going to sit here and tell you what I am going to do. You will see what I am capable of doing this year."

story link......... (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/basketball/nba/golden_state_warriors/7131026.htm)

So therefore, even despite the evidence I provided ealier that say that it is not known for overuse of painkillers to cause focal glomerulosclerosis, Alonzo Mourning himself believes his use of pain killers contributed to his ailment. It takes a real man to admit when your when you've done something wrong..........like Alonzo has done......and Pete Rose hasnt done for years until now.

I will admit that I was probably wrong about his addiction to pain killers and it probably causing his disease, even thought the it hasnt been proven on medical record yet.

This should also help prove that his addiction to pain killers wasnt intended to be for performance enhancing purposes, but rather used for its intended purposes, the relief of aches and pains.

But this should also help prove that I was right in a certain way..........that Zo's comeback isnt just a money thing as some have it percieved to be. Zo was in this to win a championship........and Jersey made the contract offer to lure him there feeling it would help put them over the top and keep Jason Kidd all at the same time.

One more thing........


you said you blasted madape and me. I see that as you touting yourself. thus you thinking you are a better poster

This still doesnt make sense.

Blasting someone is like..........

"putting someone in there place,"

"telling them like it is"

If you think this is touting one's self and making them feel better then you.........then you must feel like a lot of people feel they are better posters then you. In fact, you must feel alot of people in the WORLD feel like they are better then you.

Because this happens all the time, everyday, on Dallas-Mavs.com, all over the net, in the real world, on shows like PTI and Around the Horn, in the political arena, on the job, at home, etc..........it happens everywhere!

You should be used to it by now........for its apart of life. If your not, grow up.

But it is in no way touting.........

Think of it more like standing up for what you believe in. If you dont stand up for what you believe in, then you will never be heard, your opinion will never count, and you will go no where in life.

I believed you were wrong about Zo and your hatred for him blinded your judgement.

I was partially correct.

And I still dont believe I am god's gift to the BBS posting world..........no matter how you try to twist my statements against me or what you claim I might think.

And I dont care what any of you think about me either........as a poster or a person. You could think I am the best poster in history, or the absolute worst. It really doesnt matter to me, bother me, or effect me in any way. I am just here for the fun of it, for good constructive and interesting conversations, for opinions and facts.

BTW................I will be interested to see how any of you will try to turn, twist, misconstrue, etc.......one of my statements against me this time.

Drbio
01-29-2004, 05:29 PM
For Alonzo Mourning, it's time to savor the moments
By OHM YOUNGMISUK
New York Daily News



Is this a real person that you cited above? OhMyYoungSuck or somesuch?

kg_veteran
01-29-2004, 05:46 PM
NYCDog - What do you expect Mourning to say in an article like that? Of course he's going to say he's "playing for a ring". He's not going to say that he was trying to cash one last paycheck. But if he was really playing for a ring, why did he get his buddy Kidd to hold the Nets hostage for a 4 year MLE deal without the benefit of looking at his medical records and performing a physical examination? Why didn't he submit to the physical and sign a cheaper, shorter deal like Malone did? His words say he just wanted one more chance at a ring; his actions appear to say something else.

I guess my point is, if you like Zo and take him at his word, fine. But why get upset at Ape or BBL if they don't? Everything Zo did indicates that he just wanted to get paid one more time.

madape
01-29-2004, 06:03 PM
Good article NYCdog. Of course, it didn't change my opinion about 'Zo.

MavKikiNYC
02-08-2004, 09:45 AM
Interesting article about x-Coach BS........think it says a lot, about him and his limitations as a coach (and maybe even a person), as well as the barriers that foreign players face in trying to integrate themselves into the framework of an NBA team.

Separate thread maybe: I've begun to wonder if some of Dirk's perceived lack of assertiveness as a team leader may stem from language differences. I know that he speaks English very well as a second language, but there's a big difference in being able to handle the softballs thrown by journalists, and knowing what and how to say to a teammate to get him to ramp up his game and effort. Is language holding Dirk back?

Nets Fix Their Failure to Communicate
By STEVE POPPER

Published: February 8, 2004


EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J., Feb. 7 Off the court, Zoran Planinic speaks in halting but decipherable English. On the court, with fans screaming while he tries to race the ball up the floor as quickly as Jason Kidd does, his English is not always so clear.

In perhaps the simplest but most noticeable change since he took over as coach, Lawrence Frank has eased Planinic's rookie transition by calling the plays himself rather than leaving it to Planinic, the 21-year-old Croatian point guard.

Frank shouts plays from the sideline when Planinic is on the floor, and Planinic has only to worry about playing.

But it was not only the play-calling responsibilities that confounded Planinic under Byron Scott. It was also his belief that Scott wanted little to do with waiting for Planinic's language and on-court skills to develop.

"I understand Byron because this is a team that needs to win every game," Planinic said. "I came here and didn't know the language well. I know he just don't want to bother with me. He'd be like, `Bring an American point guard.' This team don't have patience for me."

The language barrier left Planinic struggling to fit in on the court.

"I had to do it," he said of the play-calling under Scott. "It was tough. That was the worst part. I couldn't handle that."

Planinic said that while trying to play at the Nets' fast pace, he often spoke unintelligible English. Kenyon Martin, he said, would ask, " `What did you say?' "

"I didn't know what I said," Planinic said. "It was funny, everybody was laughing."

Scott, who has been generally unavailable for comment since his firing last month, could hardly be blamed for being reluctant to allow Planinic to find his way while his job was on the line. But the Nets have spent three seasons trying to find a solid backup to Kidd, and in Planinic, their first-round draft pick last year, they thought they had him. Frank said on Saturday that Planinic was the best player in the Boston summer league last year, but added, "The bottom line is you have to earn your stripes. At the time, maybe he just wasn't quite ready."

Planinic's progress stalled once training began. He started in place of Kidd, who was injured, on Nov. 22 and struggled through 22 minutes in a Nets loss. Scott criticized Planinic's energy and readiness, and he was soon on the injured list. "Life's not fair sometimes," Planinic said.

Planinic played his best game of the season Friday, contributing 8 points and 7 assists in 18 minutes the most he has played since the start in November in a 120-99 victory over Orlando.

"A month ago I was on the injured list," he said. "I was miserable. Now I'm really happy because I can contribute to the team."