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OzMavs
02-09-2004, 11:35 PM
This is a really weird one. Must have gone down before tonights game:


The Portland Trail Blazers have acquired former NBA All-Stars Forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Center Theo Ratliff as well as Guard Dan Dickau from the Atlanta Hawks in return for Forward/Center Rasheed Wallace and Guard/Forward Wesley Person.

“Since John Nash and I came here last summer, we pursued a plan that would take character into account with talent, create cap flexibility while continuing to put a competitive team on the court,” said Trail Blazers President Steve Patterson.

“The community has been very clear in their message and we are listening. As we pledged to our fans and customers back in August, we want to build a competitive team on the court and one in which the fans can also be proud of off the court. Today’s trade is a reflection of that commitment,” said Patterson.

Abdur-Rahim, a 6-foot-9, 245-pound forward, is averaging 19.9 ppg (16th in the NBA) and 9.4 rpg (12th) while shooting 48.4% (18th) from the floor and 88.6% (7th) from the free throw line. The 6-foot-10, 235-pound Ratliff is the NBA’s leading shot blocker, 3.1 bpg, and averages 8.3 ppg and 7.2 rpg. Dickau, a Vancouver, WA native, has appeared in 20 games this season, averaging 2.1 ppg.

A seven-year NBA veteran, Abdur-Rahim owns career averages of 20.7 ppg, 8.4 rpg and 1.1 spg in 583 games. The 27-year-old was the third selection of the 1996 NBA Draft by the then-Vancouver Grizzlies after a record-setting freshman year at California. He averaged 21.1 ppg, leading all freshmen in the country in scoring, and led the team in scoring, rebounding and steals.

Abdur-Rahim was named Third-Team All-America by the Associated Press and was the first freshman to be selected as Pacific-10 Conference Player of the Year. He was also named All Pac-10 and Pac-10 Freshman of the Year.

Abdur-Rahim was named to the 1996-97 NBA All-Rookie Team after leading the Grizzlies in scoring, 18.7 ppg, and grabbing 6.9 rpg. In five seasons and 375 games with the Grizzlies, he averaged 20.8 ppg and 8.2 rpg. He was traded to the Atlanta Hawks for Lorenzen Wright, Brevin Knight and the draft rights to Pau Gasol on July 19, 2001. Since coming to the Hawks, Abdur-Rahim has averaged 20.4 ppg and 8.9 rpg in two-plus seasons.

Active in the community, he was named one of the Sporting News Good Guys in sports and helped raise funds for September 11 victims by creating "Rebound America" which raised a total of $212,275, including $69,600 from Abdur-Rahim. In November 2001, he received the NBA’s Community Assist Award.

Ratliff left the University of Wyoming with 425 blocked shots, the second-best total in NCAA history behind Alonzo Mourning's 453. He was only the fifth player in NCAA history to block 400 or more shots during his career and holds the third-best blocked shots average per game (3.83) in NCAA history behind David Robinson (5.24) and Shaquille O'Neal (4.58).

After a stellar college career, Ratliff was selected by the Detroit Pistons in the first round (18th pick overall) of the 1995 NBA Draft. He spent two-plus seasons in Detroit before being traded to Philadelphia.

Ratliff was selected by the fans to be the Eastern Conference’s starting center in the 2001 NBA All-Star Game, but was unable to play due to a stress fracture in his right wrist. The 76ers then dealt him to the Hawks for Dikembe Mutombo in a six-player deal. Ratliff missed all but three games of the 2001-02 NBA campaign after having surgery to repair a cartilage tear in his right hip.

The 30-year-old returned to form last season and, for the second time in three seasons, led the NBA in blocked shots, 3.2 bpg. In 81 games, he also averaged 8.3, ppg and 7.5 rpg. Ratliff has averaged 8.8 ppg, 6.4 rpg and 2.7 bpg in 524 games spanning eight-plus seasons. He has blocked nine shots in a game five times in his career.

Ratliff is a member of the NBA’s All-Star Reading Team and a frequent participant in the Read To Achieve Program. For the past two years he has sponsored a reading contest for metro-Atlanta students.

Dickau, 6-foot and 190 pounds, attended Prairie H.S. in Vancouver, WA. He finished his college career at Gonzaga after playing two seasons at Washington. After only two seasons with the Bulldogs, he ranks seventh all-time in Gonzaga history in assists, 299, and 16th in scoring, 1,125 points.

The 25-year-old was a two-time Verizon/College Sports Information Directors of America District 8 All-Academic pick and a two-time West Coast Conference All-Academic selection.

He was acquired by the Hawks in a draft day trade after being selected by the Sacramento Kings in the first round (28th pick overall) of the 2002 NBA Draft. In August of 2002, he married Heather Nevenner, a former member of the BlazerDancers.

“This trades helps the franchise in many ways,” said Patterson. “We get a younger core of players and can remain competitive in both the Western Conference and the league. Another factor in the deal is that we are also acquiring three players of good character. This trade also gives the franchise salary cap flexibility.”

Article (http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/Blazers_Roster_Moves-99272-41.html)

MavsFanFinley
02-09-2004, 11:43 PM
They just announced it on TNT.

Max Power
02-09-2004, 11:44 PM
I wish those guys would have been held out of tonight's game. It would have helped.

mavsfanforever
02-09-2004, 11:46 PM
WTF, that was a cold blooded move from hawks. They let the players finish the game and then announce that they are traded.

Jamisonite
02-09-2004, 11:50 PM
Nice trade but i dont really see how it makes too much sense....

Portland now has Ratliff, Davis, Rahim, and Randolph whom are all naturally PFs

Who do they start??...do they bench ratliff or rahim and what happens to davis...he just rides the bench?

Jamisonite
02-09-2004, 11:55 PM
Man...this just came to me...Port now has 3 max contracts coming off the books next year...Ratliff, Stoudemire, and Rahim....that will be some cap room for ur ass lol

TheBaron
02-10-2004, 12:10 AM
Holy crap! Wow. That blows me away.

I didnt think that Atlanta could pull trades??!

Max Power
02-10-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
Man...this just came to me...Port now has 3 max contracts coming off the books next year...Ratliff, Stoudemire, and Rahim....that will be some cap room for ur ass lol

But they would have had the same salaries coming off anyway but a year earlier. Wallace and Person were free agents. Nobody dumped a contract.

This is a weird trade.

MavsFanFinley
02-10-2004, 12:18 AM
Portland now has Ratliff, Davis, Rahim, and Randolph whom are all naturally PFs

Who do they start??...do they bench ratliff or rahim and what happens to davis...he just rides the bench?

Obviously, Atlanta lets Wallace and Person walk. It's more interesting to see what Portland does now. Do they give the money to Rahim and have him play sf? Do they resign Davis and/or Ratliff? Who do they plan on going after if they're not planning on resigning Rahim?

As to who starts, I can see Portland going with this:

Ratliff/Davis/Stepania
Randolph
Rahim/Miles/Outlaw
Anderson/Patterson/Woods
Stoudamire/Cook/Gill/Dickau

Poindexter Einstein
02-10-2004, 12:25 AM
Bottom line .... for the 2004-05 season, more talent in the West and less in the East - seems like the trades all send talent from E to W

Bayliss
02-10-2004, 12:29 AM
Bottom line .... for the 2004-05 season, more talent in the West and less in the East - seems like the trades all send talent from E to W

I'm not so sure. Is Rahim really better than Wallace? Personally I think it is a push. Rahim puts just slightly better numbers. But Rahim has the knock of being a "worthless/non existing" player just as Wallace has the knock of being an underachiever.

The real issue is how Rahim works with Randolph. Both of them are very similar. As for the trade.... I don't see how it helps either team.

dirno2000
02-10-2004, 12:31 AM
Good trade for Portland. They got rid of Rasheed and brought in a players with comparable talent and a much better attitude. The main knock on Shareef is that he's a loser who puts up empty numbers. He'll have ample opportunity to shake that label in Portland.

If Randolph develops into the franchise player that most think he can be, they'll compete with anybody in the West. Especially when Staudamire's head is in the game.

Mo Cheeks probably needs to watch his back if he can’t make a run at the playoffs. John Nash has made his moves and if they don’t work, we know where he’ll look.

Max Power
02-10-2004, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
Bottom line .... for the 2004-05 season, more talent in the West and less in the East - seems like the trades all send talent from E to W

The Knicks trade was the lone exception that I can think of right off the top of my head.

dirno2000
02-10-2004, 12:35 AM
I was hoping Rasheed would leave the West, but that was with the thought that Portland would get nowhere near value for him. This was clearly the best they could do.

ReDIRKulous
02-10-2004, 12:37 AM
Did any of these journalists that are always spreading rumors see this trade coming?

Max Power
02-10-2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Did any of these journalists that are always spreading rumors see this trade coming?

I think everyone thought Atlanta was paralyzed.

scorched03
02-10-2004, 12:47 AM
this trades sucks majorly for atlanta. they got jacked.

talented as weedman is, he's not worth a good PF in rahim and a very good defensive PF/small C in ratliff.
just cuz it takes money off atlanta's hands doesn't mean it's worth it talent wise.

i really hope the NBA will get rid of these lopesided trades in effort to just save money.

harsh euro barge
02-10-2004, 12:56 AM
So that's why we lost tonight: we gave Atlanta a freebie for ending those 'Sheed to Dallas rumours.....

scorched03
02-10-2004, 12:58 AM
terrible move in not getting young talent woods, miles, or outlaw in the deal as a addon... and not that a 1st rounder woulda really helped. what is hawks management thinking?

Atlanta trades: PG Dan Dickau (2.1 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.8 apg in 6.2 minutes)
C Theo Ratliff (8.3 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.1 minutes)
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.4 apg in 36.8 minutes)
Atlanta receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.2 minutes)
SG Wesley Person (6.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 1.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -7.3 ppg, -8.6 rpg, and -0.4 apg. <~~~~~~~ what? that's a huge loss

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (17.0 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.2 minutes)
SG Wesley Person (6.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 1.2 apg in 18.5 minutes)
Portland receives: PG Dan Dickau (2.1 ppg, 0.7 rpg, 0.8 apg in 22 games)
C Theo Ratliff (8.3 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 52 games)
PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.4 apg in 52 games)
Change in team outlook: +7.3 ppg, +8.6 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Max Power
02-10-2004, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by: scorched03
terrible move in not getting young talent woods, miles, or outlaw in the deal as a addon... and not that a 1st rounder woulda really helped. what is hawks management thinking?


Scorched earth policy.

GMs of sports teams play follow the leader all the time. The current notion is popularized by Kiki out of Denver. Get rid of your whole team - all of it. Get rid of every contract on the books if at all possible. Have major cap room to add to your draft picks and get better quickly.

Denver made it work, Utah hasn't (yet?), and many other franchises are going to try to catch lightning in a bottle. Plus the team is cheap for a long time and that always looks good on the bottom line and too many teams are bottom line conscious nowadays.

scorched03
02-10-2004, 01:11 AM
perhaps they're wanting one of the two highly rated georgia kids in the draft: howard or smith.........

Max Power
02-10-2004, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by: scorched03
perhaps they're wanting one of the two highly rated georgia kids in the draft: howard or smith.........

That's part of the policy. Kill the team - kill it dead. Get rid of all the old players and get really bad for a couple of years to grab a couple of HIGH draft picks. Then add a few veteran role players around the kids and that is how Denver is doing so well.

Phoenix is trying the policy too. Chicago has failed with a varient - they never added role players to the kids, they just expected the kids to get better somehow.

rakesh.s
02-10-2004, 01:22 AM
rasheed wallace should be able to DOMINATE in the east..but it all depends on his attitude

this was really weird in the sense that atlanta has been playing really hard the last few games and they've been there at the end of games.....their team looked like it was finally coming together

jayC
02-10-2004, 01:30 AM
Portland steals one from this one. Ratliff and Rahim in this deal. The trade probably clears the way for Davis to be moved.

While Atlanta gets supertalented forward Rasheed Wallace. This is a rare trade that works for both parties.

Poindexter Einstein
02-10-2004, 01:32 AM
BAYLISS, RAKESH .... it remains to be seen whether Sheed is in the East more than a couple months. There is no question that Abdur-Rahim, Ratliff, and Dickau will all be in the West in the fall, however.

MAX ... Knicks/Suns trade, talent went East that time - yep, good call.

ReDIRK ... I believe I saw some who figured Portland might try to get an offer from Atlanta, focusing on Abdur-rahim. But I saw nothing of this magnitude (of talent from Atl) guessed at.

dirno2000
02-10-2004, 01:40 AM
i really hope the NBA will get rid of these lopesided trades in effort to just save money.

I doubt anything will be done since Stern represents the interest of the owners.

If I'm one of the few remaining ATL fans, what reason do I have to go to a game this or even next season. The NBA hasn't seen anything like this since Ted Sapien was running the show in Cleveland.

Max Power
02-10-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by: dirno2000

i really hope the NBA will get rid of these lopesided trades in effort to just save money.

I doubt anything will be done since Stern represents the interest of the owners.

If I'm one of the few remaining ATL fans, what reason do I have to go to a game this or even next season. The NBA hasn't seen anything like this since Ted Sapien was running the show in Cleveland.

Or since Denver traded away Raef and NVE for Juwan? Or since Denver traded McDyess for Camby and a draft pick? Denver got REALLY bad but the fans were sold on the hope that the new management could start over.

Atlanta is basically a clean slate right now - the GM and coach will be fired at the end of the season (if not before) and the new guys get to put their stamp on the team immediately. There is nothing worse than a bad team who is over the salary cap. Atlanta was at $63M for this season and $44M for next season (with only 7 players under contract).

Atlanta is in much better shape today than yesterday.

dirno2000
02-10-2004, 02:01 AM
Or since Denver traded away Raef and NVE for Juwan? Or since Denver traded McDyess for Camby and a draft pick? Denver got REALLY bad but the fans were sold on the hope that the new management could start over.

Atlanta is basically a clean slate right now - the GM and coach will be fired at the end of the season (if not before) and the new guys get to put their stamp on the team immediately. There is nothing worse than a bad team who is over the salary cap. Atlanta was at $63M for this season and $44M for next season (with only 7 players under contract).

Atlanta is in much better shape today than yesterday.

Things worked out well for Kiki in Denver, but I'd be willing to bet that proves to be the exception rather than the rule. Sometimes you gut your team and end up like the Bulls, eternally waiting for kids to mature. The free agent market doesn't look nearly as good this year and there are currently no Carmello Anthony's or Labron James' on the horizon. The comeback trail for Atlanta is going to be a long and arduous one.

Poindexter Einstein
02-10-2004, 02:05 AM
DIRNO ...good point.

Denver gutted the roster and got lucky.

But it seems more common to end up like the Mavs of the 90s or GS of the late 90s-to-now or the Clipps of the forever - you fall like a rock and it takes MANY years (or forever) to get up.

OutletPass
02-10-2004, 02:30 AM
TheBaron...

I posted a note about 3 says ago...from ESPN stating that the league was on the verge of approving the Atlanta sale and would have it done before the deadline.

I haven't seen any more on it but I SUPECT that's happened...or the league told Atlanta that it WOULD happen within the next few days. We'll probably see an announcement pretty soon on that end.

samoan-maverick
02-10-2004, 02:40 AM
Atlanta made this trade for Kobe. They have over 50Mil in cap space. That makes Atlanta a tough contender in the Kobe sweepstakes







Even though Kobe Sux.

kiwi
02-10-2004, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by: samoan-maverick
Atlanta made this trade for Kobe. They have over 50Mil in cap space. That makes Atlanta a tough contender in the Kobe sweepstakes







Even though Kobe Sux.

Malo , lau susuga le famatalaupu!

Poindexter Einstein
02-10-2004, 02:56 AM
OP - I saw a quote from the Atlanta GM, in the last few days, saying he had already the latitude to make any trades he wanted to and has been able to do so for quite some time. He added that he just hadnt come across one he liked yet.

If thats true, then this trade didnt have any relevance either way to the sale approval.

Mavs Rule
02-10-2004, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: scorched03
perhaps they're wanting one of the two highly rated georgia kids in the draft: howard or smith.........

That's part of the policy. Kill the team - kill it dead. Get rid of all the old players and get really bad for a couple of years to grab a couple of HIGH draft picks. Then add a few veteran role players around the kids and that is how Denver is doing so well.

Phoenix is trying the policy too. Chicago has failed with a varient - they never added role players to the kids, they just expected the kids to get better somehow.

I am wondering if Golden State will do the same, probably trading NVE for expiring contracts and letting Damp walk.

Max Power
02-10-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by: dirno2000
Things worked out well for Kiki in Denver, but I'd be willing to bet that proves to be the exception rather than the rule. Sometimes you gut your team and end up like the Bulls, eternally waiting for kids to mature. The free agent market doesn't look nearly as good this year and there are currently no Carmello Anthony's or Labron James' on the horizon. The comeback trail for Atlanta is going to be a long and arduous one.

Remember that Kiki did not sign a FA the first offseason. He let the team get extra bad and wound up with Melo. And the worst thing that would happen with Kiki's plan is that the team gets really cheap and makes the owner a lot of money.

Why pay a lot of money for a mediocre team?

OutletPass
02-10-2004, 09:15 AM
OP - I saw a quote from the Atlanta GM, in the last few days, saying he had already the latitude to make any trades he wanted to and has been able to do so for quite some time. He added that he just hadnt come across one he liked yet.

PE- I'm not sure that I believe a lame duck GM, but it really doesn't matter.

From my understanding, one of the things that held up the sale was that the current owners and new owners had some changes to the original agreement...so the NBA was waiting on them to some degree. That, if true, would explain why it took so long. It's just hard for me to imagine that a "big trade" that fundamentally changed things for Atlanta could be done until negotiations were finished and the NBA had given them a heads up. But that's dependent on the info that I've read about the proposed sale and the continued negotiations.

Maybe he was operating within certain understood parameters about clearing cap space....or maybe he was shooting his mouth off. Who knows ?

Chiwas
02-10-2004, 11:14 AM
Knight described the deal as "the ugly part of the business," but it is no secret why he made the trade. By making the deal, the Hawks will cut more than $24 million in salary for next season.

"We're a bad team," Knight said. "We haven't won the games we should win, and we have a high payroll. We might as well start our rebuilding process. We're starting a year earlier."

Abdur-Rahim, the Hawks' leading scorer at 20.7 points per game, and Ratliff, the league's leading shot blocker, swallowed up more than $23 million dollars of the salary cap this season. They are slated to earn about $25 million next season. Dickau, a second-year point guard who played only rarely, will make 1.6 million for this year and next year.

Wallace will earn $17 million in the last year of his deal, which will come off the books this summer if the Hawks do not to re-sign him....

... "We're financially strapped," Knight said. "We're at the luxury tax this year. Next year, we would have eight guys under contract, and we'll be right back at the same number next year. You add the draft pick, and that's another $3 million. That's a payroll of $60 million.

"It saves us a lot of money," Knight said. "It allows us flexibility. This makes us a major player this summer. In some way we have a giant sword -- meaning a lot of room -- to wield."

This summer's free agent class includes Kobe Bryant and Kenyon Martin, a restricted free agent.

ma-gaga
02-10-2004, 12:01 PM
I think Atlanta also traded for Terrell Brandon's contract last offseason. They should be swimming in cap space.

I feel bad for their fans, that's gotta suck.

OutletPass
02-10-2004, 12:11 PM
You're right about the Brandon deal:

Here are all the players currently under contract for 2004-2005. This assumes no TBrandon (retired) salary in 04-05 and also assumes that Wallace and Person are not re-signed.

All salaries are for 03-04. I'll try to find the 04-05 for an update.

Jason Terry ................ $8,333,333
Alan Henderson ............. $7,682,188
Nazr Mohammed .............. $5,000,000
Chris Crawford ............. $3,000,000
Boris Diaw ................. $1,021,080
Stephen Jackson ............ $1,000,000
Travis Hansen .............. $366,931



The salary of any rookie that is drafted by the Hawks (probably in the $2-3 million range) isn't included.

Approx 03-04 salary cap: $44-ish million, which is likely to increase for 04-05.

So they should have about $12 million or so...and this is a rough estimate...for next year.

They'll need 5 more players to fill out the 12 man roster.

(source: Patricia's Various Basketball Stuff :http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/)

-- They've talked a lot about getting rid of Jason Terry...and Mohammed. Guess we'll just have to see for ourselves.