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thebac
02-16-2004, 12:57 PM
Knicks in position to compete in East

LOS ANGELES -- Maybe Isiah Thomas knows what he's doing, after all.

Sunday's trade that shipped Keith Van Horn to the Bucks and Michael Doleac to the Hawks for Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed should put the Knicks in a position to seriously compete in the East.

After taking over what appeared to be one of the worst jumbles of mismatched talent and excessive contracts in the NBA, Isiah has, in the course of two months, made three trades and replaced nine players on the Knicks roster.

The resulting makeover would make the Fab Five proud. Call it hip eye for the queer team.

Chances are he's not done. Rumors swirled here at All-Star Weekend that Isiah was considering swapping Shandon Anderson for Ruben Patterson. He also is shopping Othella Harrington, Frank Williams and Michael Sweetney, hard.

Scott Layden must be getting tired just keeping up with the transaction reports.

After casting a skeptical eye at Isiah's hire and his first two trades, it's pretty tough not to be impressed.

Thomas and Mohammed aren't the players that Stephon Marbury or even Penny Hardaway are, but they're the perfect complement to a backcourt of Marbury, Hardaway and Allan Houston and the blue-collar frontcourt of Kurt Thomas and Dikembe Mutombo.

After pulling off the Marbury miracle, the main critique was that Isiah had boxed himself in. He used up his expiring contracts and draft picks to land Marbury -- but was it enough?

The answer, of course, was no. But with Tim Thomas and Mohammed, the Knicks suddenly appear to have the pieces they need to compete in the East.

Thomas is far from a superstar, but as a fourth option, he's the perfect fit on the Knicks. He's young (he turns 27 in 10 days), tall and athletic. He can run the floor and has turned himself into a decent defender the past year. He'll never average 20 points or 10 boards a game, but on the squad the Knicks have assembled, he doesn't have to. Mohammed is another big body -- something the team needs as Mutombo nears his 80th birthday.

Here's the other thing about the three trades Isiah has made. Each one also has been pretty good for the other team making the trade. Not sure how that's possible, given the Knicks' current roster, but it's true.

The Moochie Norris for Clarence Weatherspoon trade was a wash. The Marbury trade gave the Suns the ability to get far enough under the cap to make a run at a top free agent along with two top young international prospects and an extra draft pick. It's tough to argue with the Suns' decision to pull the trigger.

This latest trade also works for the Bucks and the Hawks. Milwaukee is one of the surprise stories of the first half, but it needed another guy to pick up some of the scoring load. Van Horn is having a good season and is capable of averaging 20 and 8 on the Bucks, which is a nice upgrade over the 14 and 5 that Thomas provided. The move also allows them to reinsert Desmond Mason into the starting five and move Van Horn to the four. The Bucks also shave roughly $14 million off their cap for the summer of 2005, giving them around $25 million in cap room to play with that season.

While Van Horn isn't the defender Thomas is, he's a better scorer, and his offensive rebounding should make the Bucks an even tougher match-up in the second half.

The Hawks' interest is in getting cap room. By swapping Mohammed for Doleac and Joel Przybilla, the team will clear another $5 million next summer. That should put them second to only the Jazz, with roughly $20 million in cap space to make a run at some top free agents. While it's highly doubtful the Hawks have enough juice to lure Kobe Bryant, don't be surprised to see them make a major run at a guy like Kenyon Martin this summer.

Around the league

GMs were busy here in Los Angeles. Only one trade was actually finalized here, but several others are in the works. It appears that many GMs, especially in the East, are now feeling pressure to respond to Thomas' moves. The Knicks are now a force to be reckoned with and a few teams are going to have to get their act together if they're going to keep up. Here's the buzz from L.A. over the weekend.

Rasheed Wallace
Small Forward
Atlanta Hawks
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
45 17.0 6.6 2.5 .442 .742




One more theory why the Knicks traded Van Horn is worth investigating. Two sources at the All-Star Game Sunday night told Insider it was also a move to clear the way for Rasheed Wallace this summer. According to the sources, the Knicks are far and away Wallace's desired final destination -- even if he has to take the five million mid-level exception to get there. The Knicks will try to work out a sign and trade with Atlanta this summer, but if that falls through . . . expect Wallace to become the final piece of Thomas' puzzle anyway this summer.

Pistons GM Joe Dumars may be the most motivated GM left to make a deal. The Pistons have to clear around four to five million in cap space to have enough room to re-sign restricted free agent Mehmet Okur this summer. There were numerous theories flying around L.A. speculating what Dumars would do.
The three most popular had him moving Corliss Williamson to Chicago for Marcus Fizer and Kendall Gill; trading Williamson to Boston for Chris Mills and a Pistons' first-rounder; and Chucky Atkins to Orlando for Tyronn Lue and Gordan Giricek. Of the three, you've got to believe that the Orlando scenario is the most attractive to Detroit.

Ronald Murray
Shooting Guard
Seattle SuperSonics
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
52 13.2 2.4 2.4 .409 .687




The Sonics were happy to see that Ronald Murray could still drop 20 points in game -- albeit in the defenseless NBA Rookie Challenge. It appears that the team is now serious about making a move using Murray as the bait. With Ray Allen the permanent fixture at the two and Antonio Daniels and Luke Ridnour the future at the point -- Murray is expendable and he's got a ton of trade value. The same holds true for Yugoslavian Vladimir Radmanovic, who never has appeared to play up to his potential in Seattle. The team already tried to package the two, along with one of their struggling centers and the expiring contract of Brent Barry to Atlanta.

The Hawks decided to make a deal with the Blazers instead. That may be a mistake in the long run if the Hawks can't turn their $20 million in cap room into a real free agent. The Sonics obviously want a big in return. Is anyone else willing to play let's make a deal? The Mavs would do something in a heartbeat, but the Sonics are reluctant to take back either Antoine Walker or Antawn Jamison -- both of whom (especially Walker) were being shopped hard by the Mavs over the weekend.


There's so much talk about an Aaron McKie-for-Jerome Williams swap, and it looks like it's bound to happen. Williams' critical comments toward his teammates, even though justified, probably sealed the deal in Chicago. Not sure how it helps either team in the long run, but the truth is that both sides are looking for anything to shake things up.

There was also a little draft buzz in the air here in L.A. when 18-year-old Latvian 7-footer Andris Biedrins showed up at the All-Star Game with his family and NBA agent Bill Duffy. Biedrins, who many scouts compare to a taller version of Andrei Kirilenko, is the subject of an intense recruiting war among several of the top international agents. Many scouts believe he's a lock for the top 10 if he enters the draft this year. Biedrins got the royal treatment, including tickets for his entire family and a pass to the NBPA party featuring Snoop Dog on Saturday.
Insider ran into Biedrins at the party and then into his family at the game Sunday night. All of them looked completely overwhelmed by the intensity of All-Star Weekend. The word from the family is that Biedrins wants to be in this year's draft, though his mother told me she's concerned he's a little too young to "live this life."

Stern, Hunter search for solutions

LOS ANGELES -- NBA commissioner David Stern and union director Billy Hunter want peace instead of a looming labor war, but both know that it will be easier said than done. Speaking to the media before the NBA's All-Star Saturday, both Stern and Hunter began to outline what it's going to take to avert a lockout after the 2004-05 NBA season.

Stern said that the league has proposed ideas for the players to look over and that he was expecting a concrete set of responses in the next few weeks.

"Recognizing that it seems to be part of labor lure, that you have to be under some kind of deadline to get the final deal done, but we'll give it our shot," Stern said.

Both Stern and Hunter emphasized that it was important that the league work something out before the 2004-05 season begins.

"I've indicated to David and to the owners that we are going to make every effort to try to reach an agreement between now and the end of the summer," Hunter said, "knowing that if we don't, it's pretty difficult to negotiate during the season because the players generally are unavailable. I would anticipate that in the event that we don't reach an agreement within the next year, there's a strong possibility that we might be locked out again."

Hunter, who also spoke of the increasing possibility of a lockout in the NHL, said he doesn't want the NBA to follow suit.

"We've both been down that road," Hunter said. "It's not very comfortable. As a matter of fact, it's extremely uncomfortable. We lost a lot of money, the players did, as well as the league. And it can get ugly on occasion. And then you have got a lot of ground to try to recover once you have come back together. "So we are going to try to reach an agreement. That does not mean that things may or may not get adversarial because they often do. Sometimes you have to fall apart before you can get back together. ... Having been through a seven-month lockout in the past, that's the last thing I want to experience again."

How are they going to get there? Stern declined to discuss specifics in the press conference claiming he didn't want to "negotiate" here, but afterward Stern outlined to ESPN.com some of what he's looking for in the new agreement.

The two biggest issues, which deal with money, are the percentage that the league pays players and the distribution of salaries.

Currently, the Collective Bargaining Agreement mandates that as long as revenue paid to players is below 55 percent of the total revenue the league's 29 teams earn, no penalties kick in. Next season, that number jumps to 57 percent. It's clearly something the NBA owners would like to see decreased.

"Because we need to pencil in a way that this will work, and I think we are a little high," Stern told ESPN.com.

"We want to come up with a series of things that incentivize teams to deal with veterans more fully and not have those salaries perhaps count against the tax," Stern said. "Something which encourages teams to keep on their roster people who can contribute but are otherwise disincentived to keep them because of the economics of it."

Sources have also told ESPN.com that the league is looking to reduce the maximum number of years a player contract is guaranteed. Currently a contract can be guaranteed for six or seven years depending on whether a player is signed by his own team or a different team. Several sources have told ESPN.com that the league would like that number reduced to three or four years.

Stern also is likely to push for a minimum age of 20 years old. Stern said that he believes, as a matter of federal law, age limits are legal and that the recent federal court ruling in the Maurice Clarett case would be overturned.

While Stern said he acknowledges the contributions of players just of of high school such as LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett, he still believes an age limit is the right thing for the league.

"Obviously, we have a long history of demonstrating that you don't have to be 19 or 20 to act in an immature fashion," Stern said. "So I don't mean to cast any aspersions on either the maturity or the basketball capacity of 19-year-olds. I just think it would be a good idea as a league if we were not associated with the prospect of pulling kids who are now 10 years old, bouncing the ball and telling their parents they are going to be the next LeBron James because everyone in this room knows they are not, and then they will be left with virtually nothing."

Hunter disagrees.

"My position all along is that I guess I have been opposed to an age limit," Hunter said. "I have always promoted the fact that if a guy was physically and mentally capable of playing in the league, he should come."

Still Hunter agreed that if 14-year-olds like O.J. Mayo start to challenge league rules to enter the draft, he'll take a harder stand.

"If a 14-year-old steps forward, I'm going to join hands with David Stern," Hunter said.


Lost in translation

LOS ANGELES -- When you have players and media members from 212 countries speaking 42 languages here at the NBA All-Star Game there's bound to be some miscommunication along the way.
Here, cultures collide in some strange and bizarre ways. It's a place where players meet playas, posses meet diplomats, David Stern meets Ludacris, and a fleet of platinum, stretch Hummers and Escalades run side by side with huge convoys of tourist buses.

Along the way, the media horde, armed with microphones, video cameras and notepads records the painful minutia of it all. Of all the events here, in my mind, nothing is as entertaining as Media Day. In the space of roughly 90 minutes, just about everyone is forced to answer stupid questions, including the important questions of life that rarely get addressed and that we know are of great interest to Insider readers everywhere.

Alas, we are dealing with NBA All-Stars here. That means they have been well trained in the art of not answering, instead reciting enough clichés to make any PR director proud.




Kobe Bryant made it pretty clear he's ready to get out of L.A.

After Friday's media session, Insider pored over the transcripts, searching among the pat verbiage for the true meaning of NBA life ... some translation required.

Kobe Bryant, G, L.A. Lakers

Q: If you had a choice, where would you play -- New York or Philadelphia?
A: Well, for me, it doesn't matter to me what place I get traded to.
Insider Translation: Kobe sure didn't hesitate when given the chance to end speculation that he wants out of Los Angeles as soon as possible. One minute he claims he wants to be a "Laker for life," and the next he's talking trade. Trading Kobe? Can you imagine him saying that at this time last season? With the Lakers literally falling apart before our eyes, Kobe (who started the downward spiral, by the way) sure sounds like he's the first to jump ship.
Maybe Kobe means he'll be a Laker for life the same way Karl Malone will always be a member of the Jazz, even though he now wears the gold and purple. There's no way the Lakers will be able to trade Kobe until his legal situation is worked out. But this summer? You might as well add Los Angeles (the other one), Phoenix, Denver, San Antonio, Detroit and even Utah to the list, while you're at it. There's only one place Kobe doesn't want to be right now, and that appears to be in the same Staples Center locker room with Shaq and Phil Jackson.

More Kobe ...

Q: Is Byron Scott a guy that you would like to play for at some point?
A: Yeah, he's one of my favorite coaches in the league ... he's been my mentor. It's a shame how the situation turned out for him, but I'm sure something will happen for him. ... I love Larry Brown. I love Byron Scott, (Rick) Carlisle. A lot of the coaches, I admire how they run their team. Just certain things that coaches do, I admire.
Insider Translation: Memo to any NBA team with enough cap room to make a run at Kobe -- Hire Scott. Now. Bryant couldn't stop talking about him. With his well documented problems with Jackson, it's no wonder that Dr. Phil didn't make the short list of Scott, Brown and Carlisle.

Personally, Kobe would probably find that Brown and Carlisle would also give him a few fits. Scott, on the other hand, might be the perfect coach for Kobe. Scott will sit back and let Kobe do his thing, and sadly, that seems to be the biggest factor in his planned flirtation with free agency this summer.


Shaquille O'Neal, C, Lakers

Q: Another crazy week in Lakerland. What's your take regarding Kobe and Phil Jackson?
A: I really haven't been paying much attention. I know that this is a sport first and a business second, and people have to do what's right for them. [ed. note: I think he meant business first and sport second, but what do I know?] There are a lot of guys with a lot of different feelings -- if they want to stay or if they want to leave.
Insider Translation: The Lakers are screwed. There are a lot of guys with feelings, but different ones? Maybe not. Sounds like Kobe isn't the only one tired of the circus in L.A. Both Karl Malone and Gary Payton have made statements that, through the Insider-translation lens at least, sound a lot like they're coming from people who are fed up and want to get out of there.
Wasn't it just six months ago that we were all, Insider included, ready to hand over the NBA Championship to the Lakers? Distractions and injuries have tarnished that vision beyond recognition. How long will it be before Shaq decides that if Kobe, Jackson, Payton and Malone are gone next season, L.A. life will be awfully lonely?

More Shaq ...

Q: You said, like Michael, that you didn't want to play for another coach. Do you still hold to that?
A: I said that. That's what I said, and my statement still stands.
Insider Translation: Well, that answers my question ...


Steve Francis, G, Rockets

Q: Is there any conflict between you and Coach Van Gundy or you and Yao Ming?
A: Not at all. There has been no conflict about that ... even though people want to make a big deal about who gets touches or shots in our offense. I mean, Yao leads the league in field goal percentage, so any chance you get to dump the ball into him, you have to take it.
Insider Translation: Get me the hell out of here. Francis, for all of his wonderful attributes, isn't really a point guard. What's ironic is that one of the reasons he forced a trade from the Grizzlies was that, with Mike Bibby then on the team, he didn't want to play shooting guard. Francis got his wish, but he has struggled to play second fiddle to the 7-foot-5 Yao. Francis is still the most popular athlete in Houston, but with Van Gundy working his PR and Yao slowly taking away the shots and stats, that's going to change soon. Francis wants out, and at least some of the Rockets want him out, before that notion catches on throughout the NBA.
Shortly after this question, someone asked Francis if he was surprised he made the All-Star team given his poor stats this season. His reply? "Fans know basketball. I've always said this, regardless of how many points I have been scoring, the fans know it isn't always about points. I just go out and work hard, and I think people appreciate that." Memo to Stevie Franchise: The best point guard in the league doesn't believe you ... read on.


Jason Kidd, G, Nets

Q: Does it bother you not to be voted in by the fans?
A: Well, I'm going to work this summer on my dunking, and I'm going to try not to pass as much and become more of a scorer. Maybe that would get me in as a starter (laughs). If I have to change my game, then I have to change my game.
Insider Translation: Maybe I'll be voted in as Eastern Conference head coach next season.

Sam Cassell, G, Timberwolves

Q: How does it feel to finally make an All-Star team?
A: Well, I don't know why it took this long. I mean, I'm not a bad guy, but I knew for a fact that I wouldn't be voted in. It's all a political thing nowadays to make an All-Star team. It's not like the old days, when they knew what they were working with. I sort of feel like a new-age version of Rod Strickland. I never understood why he didn't make it. I consider myself a student of the game, and there's no way you can tell me back in 1993 Rod Strickland wasn't one of the two or three best point guards in basketball. Rod Strickland was the top guard in the game of basketball.
Insider Translation: Let's see ... how do we phrase this ... "It's about bleeping time people recognized Sam for what he really is -- one of the two or three best point guards in basketball. No, scratch that -- the top guard in the game of basketball." Look, Sam's having a career season and deserved to be starting on the West All-Star team this season, but I think he just gave us a pretty good taste of why he's never been there before.

Ray Allen, G, Sonics

Q: Is it more rewarding to be selected for the West All-Star team?
A: Not really. I would have to say that at this point in my career, the Western Conference is much tougher to play in night-in and night-out, but the players are all talented throughout the league. I don't look at it like it is tougher here, or more of an honor because it goes either way at times. One year, we had six two-guards on the team. So, when the Eastern Conference had to pick its seven reserves, six of them were two-guards.
Insider Translation: Can you believe how bad the guard play is in the West? Allen can miss more than half the season and still make this team? Who was going to get in ahead of him? Michael Finley? Emanuel Ginobili? Quentin Richardson? All decent players, no doubt, but All-Stars this year?

Yao Ming, C, Rockets

Q: What kind of American music do you listen to?
A: I like the National Anthem. I listen to it at least 82 times a year.
Insider Translation: I'm not sure what that means, but it was my favorite answer of the entire session. Well, with the possible exception of Brad Miller's testy exchange with the approximately three media members who actually bothered to come by his table and ask him a question ...

Brad Miller, C, Kings

Q: You played for the East last year and the West this year. What does that say about your game?
A: I got traded.
Q: What does that say about your development?
A: I didn't really expect it. I really expected to have this weekend off every year. It's a fun show. They've got to have another white American on the team. I took care of that last year, and I guess I'm holding it down again this year.
Insider Translation: Who says the NBA doesn't believe in affirmative action?

Peep Show

Dallas Mavericks: Dirk Nowitzki may have scored only two points in the All-Star Game, but it may have very well been the best two points of his life. "It's not about playing time or scoring or shots," said Nowitzki in the Dallas Morning News. "It's about being a part of this whole weekend, of interacting with the best players in the world and communicating with them one-on-one. I had a great time. Of course, I would have loved to do a little more on the court, but I'm not sad about that at all. These are the best athletes in the world. To have the chance to see their personalities, how much fun they are. Being respected and accepted by them is a good feeling."

Orlando Magic: There is a tug of war going on in Orlando between the Magic and the Adidas shoe company over Tracy McGrady and his plans this summer. His NBA team wants him to rest his back. His shoe company wants him to play in the Athens Olympics. And the winner is . . . "I'm playing, no doubt about that," McGrady said in Florida Today. "Representing my country is something I've dreamed about. I actually can't wait until this summer."

Detroit Pistons: Ten minutes a game isn't a lot, but Darko Milicic knows it's better than 9. "I have seen some progress," said Corliss Williamson in the Detroit News. "As far as the way he's been playing in practice. If he can translate that over to the game and if he gets the opportunities to come out there and play, you never know. Things could work out for him, and for us, if he's able to be productive." The News is reporting that the Pistons are ready to insert the rookie into the normal rotation. Prior to the All-Star Game, the No.2 pick had never played more than nine minutes in a single game. "They wanted me to learn the game first," Milicic said. "They have taught me a lot of things and wanted me to take my time."

Utah Jazz: The Western Conference had lots of players who could score. Andrei Kirilenko was called upon to play defense. "My teammates, they are big stars. They don't need my advice," Kirilenko said in the Salt Lake Tribune. "I'm just trying to run the floor, help on defense and wait for the pass. I was open a few times and I didn't get a pass. But that was OK." In the final minutes of a close game, head coach Flip Saunders used Kirilenko to guard Tracy McGrady. "That's what we were looking for," Saunders said. "He's one of the better defenders in the league. When we made a run in the third quarter, [Kirilenko] helped us defensively, so we thought he would be a good option on McGrady on the last play."

Philadelphia 76ers: Allen Iverson has some advice for Kobe Bryant. "It's easy to say you want to leave Shaq when you've won three titles already," Iverson said in the Philadelphia Daily News. "All of us are trying to win one. You never know if he'd be saying that if he didn't win those titles. It'd be a dream for us, because your opportunity is much greater; you always have that vision that you're going to win." Then he went on. "I'd tell him, without Shaquille O'Neal life can't get any better - it can't get better," Iverson said. "Everybody in the league wants to play with Shaquille O'Neal. He makes everything out there easier. I'd just let him know it will be tougher, not having that other superstar, that other guy, where some nights you can relax the last quarter-and-a-half, because it's a blowout. But that's the type of guy Kobe is; he wants a challenge."

Denver Nuggets: This All-Star Game might be over, but next year's has just begun. "We've got a lot of people here going over all of the details, but L.A. and Mr. Anschutz are putting on a great show," Nuggets owner Stan Kroenke said Friday, referring to Staples Center owner Phil Anschutz, in the Denver Post. "We've got a lot to learn. We've got a lot to take in this weekend." They know it isn't going to be easy to top this weekend's events, but the Nuggets are going to try. "They're much further ahead of us in wanting information than we are in having information," Ski Austin, the NBA's senior vice president for events and attractions, said. "They're great. They were calling us months ago asking us questions."

madape
02-16-2004, 01:06 PM
Walker and change for Barry, Murray, and Radmonovic? That would be a hard one to turn down.

kg_veteran
02-16-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Walker and change for Barry, Murray, and Radmonovic? That would be a hard one to turn down.

I don't think it'd be too hard. I love Barry's game, but he's 32 and he replicates skills already present on the team rather than adding needed ones. Murray's a volume shooter that doesn't interest me at all, particularly when you try and figure out how he would get minutes with Barry in front of him. Radmanovic is a nice shooter, but again he replicates skills already present on the team.

Make this trade and this is what we'd have to look forward to...

Nowitzki 38 - Bradley 10
Jamison 30 - Radmanovic 18
Finley 28 - Howard 20
Barry 16 - Finley 10 - Murray 22
Nash 32 - Barry 16

No thanks.

dalmations202
02-16-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: madape
Walker and change for Barry, Murray, and Radmonovic? That would be a hard one to turn down.

I don't think it'd be too hard. I love Barry's game, but he's 32 and he replicates skills already present on the team rather than adding needed ones. Murray's a volume shooter that doesn't interest me at all, particularly when you try and figure out how he would get minutes with Barry in front of him. Radmanovic is a nice shooter, but again he replicates skills already present on the team.

Make this trade and this is what we'd have to look forward to...

Nowitzki 38 - Bradley 10
Jamison 30 - Radmanovic 18
Finley 28 - Howard 20
Barry 16 - Finley 10 - Murray 22
Nash 32 - Barry 16

No thanks.

Not sure why you think that Barry replicates skills present. He is a 1 or 2 who is 6'6", and can shoot. He would be a good 6th man in my opinion (backup for Steve and Mike).
But as for the rest. I agree.
As for the trade. No thanks. Walker is more valuable than that.

kg_veteran
02-16-2004, 04:07 PM
Not sure why you think that Barry replicates skills present. He is a 1 or 2 who is 6'6", and can shoot. He would be a good 6th man in my opinion (backup for Steve and Mike).
But as for the rest. I agree.
As for the trade. No thanks. Walker is more valuable than that.

A good 6th man. Exactly. Walker is a good starter who does gives you the same passing and playmaking Barry does but also gives you the rebounding Barry can't and gives you ballhandling at a position where it can be used to great advantage.

jayC
02-16-2004, 04:11 PM
Thats intriguing. Forget the backup point guard skills that Barry has. Murray is an explosive offensive player, and Vladimir has quietly had a very good season. Especially if the intent is for a more involved role for Antwan Jamison.

Bayliss
02-16-2004, 04:38 PM
I love Brent Barry. I think he is the perfect combo guard that Nellie and this team coul use. He has the size for a two and the touch of a two yet he can play point in limited minutes. When we got Jiri Welsch in the Golden State trade I proclaimed: "We now have our Brent Barry." I still hold true to that statement. In time, Welsch is going to become Barryesque.

But I would only like Barry if he was a stand alone option. We do not need to trade for him unless we get Booth or James in return with him. As for Murray... what does he bring that Daniels and Howard can't bring? And what does Vlad bring that Dirk doesn't already do?

As KG said, that trade is terrible because there is too much duplication.

ddh33
02-16-2004, 04:39 PM
Is anyone surprised at all that the Mavs are still in all the rumor mills? I don't know if management will be able to get what they want for the pieces we're offering though.

The Seattle deal might overload this roster even more. I don't want 15 guys all thinking they should be receiving major minutes - especially when they're skills are redundant with what we already have.

dalmations202
02-16-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Not sure why you think that Barry replicates skills present. He is a 1 or 2 who is 6'6", and can shoot. He would be a good 6th man in my opinion (backup for Steve and Mike).
But as for the rest. I agree.
As for the trade. No thanks. Walker is more valuable than that.

A good 6th man. Exactly. Walker is a good starter who does gives you the same passing and playmaking Barry does but also gives you the rebounding Barry can't and gives you ballhandling at a position where it can be used to great advantage.

I agree.
I like Barry alot, but not at the expense of Walker. Barry alone, fine. The trade above, nope.
I think Barry with Walker would work well though, because Barry has some "off the ball cutting" skills that most of the Mavs lack as well.

madape
02-16-2004, 04:54 PM
I like Murray, but Barry is the guy I want. If we could pull a three way trade in which we'd get back another player I like instead of Murray, I might be tempted to pull the trigger.

As much as I like Barry, Walker is unquestionably better. But this looks to have the begginning of being something that could work.

I am starting to get the feeling that the team has begun to sour on Walker. I love him, but I wouldn't turn down something that could make us better.

kg_veteran
02-16-2004, 04:55 PM
The Insider article never mentions a rumor with specific players on both sides, but I just checked and Barry, Radmanovic, and Murray doesn't come close to working salary-wise for Walker. You'd have to throw in at least one more player.

4 for 1 swap equals cutting three guys. I could see cutting Steffansson and even Best, but who else would they cut? Just one more reason not to do this deal.

kg_veteran
02-16-2004, 04:58 PM
Ape, I'm not so sure the team has soured on Walker. I think they probably are shopping him, but I think they shop players all the time to see what their market value is.

Barry would be the ideal third guard for this team, but it's not worth dumping Walker to get him. If you could add another valuable player via a three-team deal, perhaps there's something to consider here, but I don't know who that player would be. We don't need another forward, and nobody's going to let you have Barry + a pretty decent 5 for Walker. At least I don't think so...

MightyToine
02-16-2004, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by: jayC
Thats intriguing. Forget the backup point guard skills that Barry has. Murray is an explosive offensive player, and Vladimir has quietly had a very good season. Especially if the intent is for a more involved role for Antwan Jamison.

In other words : Trade Walker so my Favorite NBA Player Jamison will start. Right? i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

MightyToine
02-16-2004, 09:50 PM
Ape, why would you think that the team has soured on Walker?


If there was any slight indication of that, it would be ALL OVER THE DALLAS NEWSPAPERS, RUMOR MILLS(IN DALLAS), and so forth.... i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif


I take ANY so-called Walker/Dallas rumor that does NOT originate from Dallas itself with a Miniscule-Grain of Salt.


edit : Where did this article originate again?

LOS ANGELES. 'nuff said. i/expressions/rolleye.gif