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View Full Version : Payton complaints about minutes and role !! What a surprise


DNNF
02-28-2004, 09:35 AM
The Gloves Come Off
Payton is upset over limited role and feels confined in Jackson's system, and agent says guard has experienced regret about signing with Lakers

By Tim Brown, Times Staff Writer

What Phil Jackson is saving Gary Payton for is not entirely clear, but after another 30-minute game Thursday night, this time in a two-point loss to the Sacramento Kings, Payton spent an hour venting to his agent, then called him again Friday morning.

Payton told Aaron Goodwin he longed to play his trademark aggressive game, but that in 56 games as a Laker he'd been boxed in by Jackson's rigid system, shortened playing time and the organization's unalterable reliance on Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal.

With less than two months left in the regular season, Payton and Goodwin feel the Lakers have not gotten what they expected from Payton, primarily because of games like Thursday's when he played less than six minutes in the fourth quarter and had only a minor role on offense when he was in the lineup.

mavsfanforever
02-28-2004, 11:09 AM
Reggie Miller would be so happy to hear that.

kg_veteran
02-28-2004, 11:20 AM
Do you mean that Payton wants something more than just to win a title, no matter how he gets it?

Interesting.

aexchange
02-28-2004, 12:02 PM
i think it would be different if he were being benched in favor of nash, kidd, or marbury. but hes being benched in favor of scrubtastic derek fisher, quite possibly the worst point guard in the western conference.

you have a future hall of famer, still one of the top 5 point guards in the league, being benched for a piece of poop like fisher. doesn't make much sense.

samoan-maverick
02-28-2004, 02:22 PM
If you watch how Payton plays he is not playing like that playmaker we know, but he is playing great D. The thing is Phil wants him to feed Shaq in the Triangle, but Gary Payton already openly admited that he does not like running the Triangle. Does he not yet realize he is not the Number one go to guy anymore? Not even #2. Not even #3.(when Malone is back) Payton jus shutup!

Also...

If you were watching the Kings v. Lakers game, they were talking about Kobes comments saying that, Kobe does not like Phil Jackson as a person, but he is OKAY as a Coach.

WayOutWest
02-28-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by: samoan-maverick
If you watch how Payton plays he is not playing like that playmaker we know, but he is playing great D. The thing is Phil wants him to feed Shaq in the Triangle, but Gary Payton already openly admited that he does not like running the Triangle. Does he not yet realize he is not the Number one go to guy anymore? Not even #2. Not even #3.(when Malone is back) Payton jus shutup!

Also...

If you were watching the Kings v. Lakers game, they were talking about Kobes comments saying that, Kobe does not like Phil Jackson as a person, but he is OKAY as a Coach.

Agreed about Payton, his D and his transition have make Fisher's incompetence even more glaring but as you stated Payton just doesn't work well in the triangle.

Lakers drama v.2004, it's five years old and people still buy into it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, clearly it did even before PJ joined the Lakers, but it doesn't effect the outcome of the Lakers season. The only thing that's affected the Lakers on the court has been Shaq's weight and Kobe's shoulder (maybe a ref or two). i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Keep Laker-hate hope alive!

Simon2
02-28-2004, 02:50 PM
I really thought the Lakers would iron their differences out. They still may but it seems like Payton is very unhappy. I guess he thought they would be leading the league right now. I have nothing against Payton. He did what he needed to do to get a ring. It was a easy decision to make. Go with the best team that needed a point guard.

Chiwas
02-28-2004, 03:04 PM
Sincerely I thought that Jackson was going to make better or more use of Payton. Payton isn't a favorite of mine but he is worth more than what he has got with the Lakers.

But as long as the Lakers choose to underplay their best players, I couldn't complain much.

mary
02-28-2004, 11:21 PM
Payton quote after tonight's win over the Wizards


``What I'm trying to do is stay away from controversy. But controversy is going to come if I keep sitting on thebench.''




Stand back. I think something's about to blow.

Max Power
02-29-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by: mary
Payton quote after tonight's win over the Wizards


``What I'm trying to do is stay away from controversy. But controversy is going to come if I keep sitting on thebench.''




Stand back. I think something's about to blow.

Payton has always been an excitable type. When the Lakers win 10 or so in a row he'll stop yapping.

Drbio
02-29-2004, 01:04 AM
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the meltdown that we all said was coming and that all the laker bums said wouldn't.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

DNNF
02-29-2004, 11:54 AM
More Payton complaints

By David Aldridge
Special to ESPN.com

Los Angeles Lakers guard Gary Payton, frustrated by what he said was both limited playing time and the team's triangle offense under Phil Jackson, said on Saturday that he may leave the team after the season. Payton signed a two-year deal with the Lakers but has an option to get out of the deal after the season.


"If that's the way [Jackson's] going to be, that's the way he's going to be, and I'll probably have to move on," Payton said.


With no rancor, Payton expressed frustration with his role in the team's offense. He isn't the focal point of the Lakers' attack, which features Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant. Payton goes minutes at a time without shooting. And while Jackson juggles minutes among Bryant, Payton, Derek Fisher and Kareem Rush, Payton said Saturday that he shouldn't be the one who has to sacrifice his game.


"They're going to have to satisfy Shaq and Kobe," Payton said. "They get 40 [minutes]. So we don't know. Whatever way [Jackson's] gonna do it, he'll do it. But I'm just going to state that I'm not pleased with my minutes I'm getting, because I don't think I'm productive being that way. And a lot of people see that. They see that I'm not comfortable with this. And it's affecting my game. My game is me playing minutes, and as the minutes go on, I get more productive and more productive. And I can't do that."


Payton's agent, Aaron Goodwin, told the Los Angeles Times on Friday that Payton had some regrets about signing with Los Angeles. The 35-year-old guard didn't use that word on Saturday, but agreed with the basic sentiment, and hinted that a decision on whether he returns next season may hinge on whether Jackson is re-signed after this season. Jackson and the team decided last month to end negotiations on a new contract until after the season.


"It's [Jackson's] offense," Payton said. "I'm used to coming off picks, screen and rolls, back to the basket, doing things like that. I've never played in this offense, the triangle offense. For my whole career, I played with a coach that let me go off pick and rolls, shoot when I can. This is not the offense for me to do that. This is not the typical offense for me. And that's basically it. I've already conceded to it, that this is not my offense."


Payton said that earlier in the season, the Lakers ran more screen-and-roll offense. But since Karl Malone suffered a knee injury in December, Payton said, his scoring opportunities have diminished, and the Lakers haven't run as much.


"Karl could pass the ball, and he could get you layups," Payton said. "Me and him was in pick and roll, and we was running, and we were getting the ball out. Now, we're getting the ball, and we go straight to the offense. We're not running. We're not running as much, and that was where I was getting my easy baskets. Now, we don't run."


Asked what he wanted to do in the offense, Payton said, "I need to be coming off picks, when people go at us with pick and rolls, screening, stuff like that, and point guards do that, we should come back and do the same thing with them. But we basically run the triangle, [Jackson] has won championships with it, he's going to stick with it, and he's the coach."


Jackson spoke with reporters prior to Saturday's game against Washington and suggested that Payton was frustrated, in part, by Thursday night's loss to the Sacramento Kings, when counterpart Mike Bibby scored 31 points, including two three-pointers down the stretch.


"I think that's probably one of the things (play defense) that he wanted to do more than anything else ... is that he wanted to have an influence on Bibby, so he couldn't get going," Jackson said. "He wanted to wear at him when he did get going, early in the ballgame, and he didn't have that opportunity. And (Bibby) hit a couple of shots down the stretch that were big. And then acted out on court like an a------."


Jackson said that he didn't think Payton would be a problem, but that it would be difficult to get minutes for Payton, Derek Fisher, Kareem Rush and Kobe Bryant.


"All these kids have egos," Jackson said. "But then I tell them that I have one, too."


Payton said he hadn't talked to Jackson in a month about his frustrations. Jackson said he had to play a lot of people to get the Lakers ready for the stretch drive of the season.


"It's tough to balance it out," Jackson said. "Fish needs at least six or seven minutes out there on the floor if he's going to contribute the way he's going to contribute, and Gary needs a little bit of a blow to come back and have a little influence on the ballgame."


After playing 34 minutes in the Lakers' 122-110 victory over the Wizards, Payton is averaging 33.7 minutes per game, a little more than three minutes per game fewer than he had averaged in 14 previous NBA seasons. He is third on the Lakers in scoring at 14.4 points per game, almost four points fewer than his career average of 18.3.

WayOutWest
02-29-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the meltdown that we all said was coming and that all the laker bums said wouldn't.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Laker meltdown and thier still practically tied with the Mavs. LOL! Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds.

rakesh.s
02-29-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by: WayOutWest

Originally posted by: Drbio
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the meltdown that we all said was coming and that all the laker bums said wouldn't.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Laker meltdown and thier still practically tied with the Mavs. LOL! Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds.

the west is wide open..memphis or houston could make a run all the way to the west finals

so the seeding really doesn't matter..and home court is always overrated..you need to win on the road in the playoffs like the spurs did last year

superheadcat
02-29-2004, 05:12 PM
Laker meltdown and thier still practically tied with the Mavs. LOL! Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds.

lol, it sounds like it is hell of an achievement that a team with 4 future hof-ers managed a "practical tie" with (actually, it is 1/2 game behind) mavs. and it also sounds like lakers don't need luck "if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds".

how many of the future hof-ers will remain in the team next year if they are out of 1st round?

Misfit Mav
02-29-2004, 06:40 PM
Looks like somebody in Laker-Land is listening to Payton-- he's getting a ton of shots so far in the Nets game.

WayOutWest
03-01-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by: rakesh.s

Originally posted by: WayOutWest

Originally posted by: Drbio
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the meltdown that we all said was coming and that all the laker bums said wouldn't.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Laker meltdown and thier still practically tied with the Mavs. LOL! Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds.

the west is wide open..memphis or houston could make a run all the way to the west finals

so the seeding really doesn't matter..and home court is always overrated..you need to win on the road in the playoffs like the spurs did last year

The reason IMO that seeding is important is because this year there are 5 "elite" teams. Kings, Wolves, Lakers, Spurs and Mavs. The "elite" in the top 3 seeds would face two other "elite" MAX, while the 4 & 5 seeds could face three.

WayOutWest
03-01-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by: superheadcat

Laker meltdown and thier still practically tied with the Mavs. LOL! Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds.

lol, it sounds like it is hell of an achievement that a team with 4 future hof-ers managed a "practical tie" with (actually, it is 1/2 game behind) mavs. and it also sounds like lakers don't need luck "if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds".

how many of the future hof-ers will remain in the team next year if they are out of 1st round?

FYI, the 4 HOF'ers have played about 20 or so games together, they were rolling early on. That's some achievement for the Mavs to be almost tied with a team that's had at least 1 of their 4 HOF starters out since then and in some cases 3 out of 4. Both teams fully loaded in the playoffs would mean money for the Lakers.

aexchange
03-01-2004, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by: WayOutWest
FYI, the 4 HOF'ers have played about 20 or so games together, they were rolling early on. That's some achievement for the Mavs to be almost tied with a team that's had at least 1 of their 4 HOF starters out since then and in some cases 3 out of 4. Both teams fully loaded in the playoffs would mean money for the Lakers.

Lot of assumptions going on here with both parties. If both teams met in the playoffs, it is only money for the lakers if kobe decides to pass the ball. if he decides he wants to jack up every shot and have shaq get 12 shots a game, a first round exit could be in the making. and while no one on the mavs could remotely guard shaq, the lakers dont have any athleticism to match with the mavs at all. in fact, whoever you put out on the front court is going to get an absolute red headed step child whooping due to their age and conditioning.

i could go on, but it would be pretty pointless. to talk of a lakers triumph at this point in the season, when they've shown absolutely nothing other than the ability to beat bad teams is absolutely ridiculous.

Drbio
03-01-2004, 10:37 AM
to talk of a lakers triumph at this point in the season, when they've shown absolutely nothing other than the ability to beat bad teams is absolutely ridiculous.


giggle


and so true......

WayOutWest
03-01-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio

to talk of a lakers triumph at this point in the season, when they've shown absolutely nothing other than the ability to beat bad teams is absolutely ridiculous.


giggle


and so true......

True when they're injured, but when healthy they were tearing up the league.

kg_veteran
03-01-2004, 12:20 PM
WOW - What was their record when all 4 played? 18-3 or something like that? That is admittedly impressive.

It's also very impressive that the Mavs have gone 18-4 over their last 22.

Even if the Lakers get healthy, I don't think it's fair to assume that they'll roll over everybody else.

Drbio
03-01-2004, 12:30 PM
It's those Laker colored glasses kg.....Shame on you for not owning a pair and praising the greatness of the flaker machine. i/expressions/rolleye.gif


The Lakers have the same shot as any other playoff team. It is rediculous to state anything to the contrary.

kg_veteran
03-01-2004, 12:55 PM
i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

There. Now I've put them on.

The Lakers are gonna win it all, baby!

WayOutWest
03-01-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio
The Lakers have the same shot as any other playoff team. It is rediculous to state anything to the contrary.

LOL!

I guess we better be looking over our shoulders for the Grizz, Nugs, Knicks and Bucs. Dear God, anything but having to face the Knicks!i/expressions/rolleye.gif

TheBaron
03-01-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by: WayOutWest

Originally posted by: Drbio
The Lakers have the same shot as any other playoff team. It is rediculous to state anything to the contrary.

LOL!

I guess we better be looking over our shoulders for the Grizz, Nugs, Knicks and Bucs. Dear God, anything but having to face the Knicks!i/expressions/rolleye.gif

Admittedly the Knicks suck, but if I were the Lakers the Kings, Mavs, Wolves, Grizz, Blazers and healthy Spurs would be scary prospects to face in the playoffs.

superheadcat
03-01-2004, 06:30 PM
True when they're injured, but when healthy they were tearing up the league.

what exactly do u mean by "when healthy"?

it is not anyone's fault that malone is 41, gp is 36, and shaq is 32, u cannot even say it is luck that malone has a bad knee, shaq has a bad toe, kobe has a bad shoulder (and a bad finger, and a bad attitude, and a bad sex urge...), and gp tends to get himself ejected in 1q.
that is the reality laker must deal with. not something dismissed as "when healthy", "if loaded", yada yada.

when none of these problems occurred, they did win in dallas (without dirk), and did win in san antonio (without td, in double ot),.

when just one of these problems occurred, they got blown out at home by mavs, and got beat at home by kings (without cwebb and bmiller).

when more than one of these problems occurred, well...

and u r telling me "they were tearing up the league"?

come playoff time, laker fans better pray for their future hof-ers, "Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds".

WayOutWest
03-01-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by: superheadcat
what exactly do u mean by "when healthy"?

I know this is real complex, but healthy means on the court and not on the bench in street cloths. 18-3 is tearing up the league, Mavs and Spurs included.


"Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds".

Next time give the author some credit copycat....err...headcat

EricaLubarsky
03-01-2004, 11:13 PM
Payton...feels confined in Jackson's system,

Not to Payton- you came to Los Angeles for a free ring by riding Shaq and Kobe's coattails. You can't complain now because 30 mpg isn't enough time. It would be nice if Jack-zen could fit a system around all four of his HOFers but he didn't and Malone/Payton came to LA knowing full well that they would be role players plugged into Jackson's rigid system that he has used for years.....

superheadcat
03-01-2004, 11:33 PM
I know this is real complex, but healthy means on the court and not on the bench in street cloths. 18-3 is tearing up the league, Mavs and Spurs included.


"when healthy, laker tears up the league", this statement is as meaningful as "when their shots are falling, mavs are invincible", "18-4, including a 9-game winning streak, is invincible, lakers, spurs, and kings included".

well, i must have missed something. wow generally makes posts much more meaningful than these.

maybe u r just trying to have some fun, then i misread ur sense of humor.

but still, "Good luck making it out of the first round, your guys will need it if they don't get one of the top 3 seeds." i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif