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View Full Version : Is Sharon dooming any Treaty?


Mavdog
04-13-2004, 11:30 AM
This is not a positive position to take if Sharon truly wants to reach agreement with the Palestinians. In that Sharon has been an advocate of the expansion of settlements in occupied territory I am not too surprised, but disappointed.
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U.S.-Bound Sharon Vows to Keep W.Bank Settlements
By Jeffrey Heller

TEL AVIV (Reuters) - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) vowed Israel would keep major settlements in the West Bank "for all eternity" before flying to Washington Tuesday to secure U.S. approval for a unilateral pullout from the Gaza Strip (news - web sites).

"I have a good feeling," Sharon said on departure, alluding to his "disengagement" plan, which Palestinians say is a ruse to strip them of land in the West Bank that they want for a viable state outlined in a U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan.

The Palestinians, who want to end Israel's 1967 occupation of both the West Bank and Gaza, said furiously that Sharon's remarks effectively ruled out any treaty under the road map, to which President Bush (news - web sites) reaffirmed his commitment.

"With such a (statement), Sharon is destroying any hope for peace between the two peoples," moderate Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie told reporters in Ramallah Tuesday.

Sharon, speaking Monday at the biggest West Bank settlement, Maale Adumim, which alone has four times as many Jews as in Gaza, named settlements to "remain under Israeli control, that will continue to grow stronger and develop."

He mentioned Maale Adumim and Givat Zeev, on the fringes of Jerusalem, Ariel in the central West Bank, the Etzion bloc near Bethlehem, and the southern city of Hebron where 400 ultra-nationalist Jews live amidst 120,000 Palestinians.

He told the settlers their homes would "continue to be built as part of Israel, for all eternity."

There are some 230,000 settlers and 2.3 million Palestinians in the West Bank. Gaza is home to 1.3 million Palestinians and 7,500 settlers in a smattering of isolated, fortified enclaves.

Sharon repeated Israel's determination to retain Arab East Jerusalem, seized along with Gaza and the West Bank in the 1967 Middle East war and annexed in a move not recognized internationally. Palestinians want it for their capital.

Sharon needs Bush's endorsement for his Gaza evacuation plan to see off strong opposition from settlers and rightist supporters in his Likud party opposed to ceding any land.

To help win over Bush, five unauthorized settlement outposts in the West Bank will be torn down this week, a senior political source close to Sharon told Reuters. Removing the scores of hilltop caravan outposts is a requirement of the road map, which has been derailed by violence and mutual non-compliance.

PALESTINIANS ANGRY, BUSH CAUTIOUS
Qurie said: "What he (Sharon) said before he went to Washington is rejected, rejected, rejected. We appeal to the United States not to prejudice final-status negotiations."

Sharon was heading to a White House meeting with Bush at which Israeli sources said they expected a deal signaling that Israel would not have to cede all of the West Bank under any future peace agreement.

But Bush, after meeting Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak (news - web sites) in Texas Monday, appeared more cautious. He welcomed any Israeli pullout from Gaza but said it would not supersede the road map.

"If he were to decide to withdraw, it would be a positive development," Bush told reporters at his ranch. "We are both in agreement that if Israel makes a decision to withdraw, it doesn't replace the road map."

That plan envisions a Palestinian state co-existing in peace with Israel. But Sharon says he sees no negotiating partner because of a Palestinian failure to stop suicide attacks and other violence against Israelis, another road map condition.

A key referendum of Likud members on quitting Gaza set for April 29 has been put off to May 2 to avoid coinciding with a European basketball playoff final in Tel Aviv, the party said.

Israeli media said aides had advised Sharon the basketball tourney might keep pullout proponents away from the referendum because they are seen as less ideological and inclined to vote. (Additional reporting by Mohammed Assadi in Ramallah, Dan Williams in Jerusalem and Jeremy Pelofsky in Crawford, Texas)

Drbio
04-13-2004, 10:48 PM
I wish Sharon would stfu. There may be peace one day, but it will be in spite of Sharon. I know he is beloved in Israel and I support Israel, but he makes it difficult.

Mavdog
04-14-2004, 04:38 PM
That man of International Diplomacy strikes again. Yes, GWBush has tossed away years of effort to appear sort of even handed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by endorsing the Sharon plan to keep many of the settlements in the occupied West Bank. Do you hear that giant sucking sound? That's thew flushing of any hope that an agreement might be reached between the Israelis and the Palestinians. What a deft touch with international affairs GWBUsh has...not. What a mistake this decision is.
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Bush Changes Course, Endorses Israel Plan

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - Breaking with long-standing U.S. policy, President Bush (news - web sites) on Wednesday endorsed Israel's retention of part of the West Bank in any final peace settlement with the Palestinians. In a show of support for Israel's leader that brought immediate condemnation from the Palestinians, Bush also ruled out Palestinian refugees ever returning to Israel.

An elated Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) said his plan would create "a new and better reality for the state of Israel."

But minutes after Bush spoke, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia said in Ramallah that "he is the first president who has legitimized the (Israeli) settlements in Palestinian territories."

Qureia added: "We as Palestinians reject that. We cannot accept that. We reject it and we refuse it." Separately, anticipating what Bush would say, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) had earlier called it "the complete end of the peace process."

Bush, in a historic news conference with a broadly smiling Sharon, endorsed as "courageous" the Israeli leader's plan to pull out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank.

The president said there were "new realities" on the West Bank since Israel captured the territory in the 1967 Mideast war. Bush said major Israeli population centers in the West Bank now make it "unrealistic to expect the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return" to pre-war borders.

Past U.S. administrations had anticipated only minor changes in the old borders as part of a final peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians. Bush's statement went much further, amounting to a clear endorsement of Sharon's proposal that some large Jewish settlements must remain on the West Bank temporarily, and a backing of the Sharon position that some Jewish settlements must always remain there.

Bush's endorsement of Sharon's plan came with no Palestinian leaders present in what was sure to be seen by the Arab world as a strong favoring of Sharon and a slight to the Palestinians. Palestinian leaders had previously said they had been assured by the Bush administration that they would be consulted before any Bush endorsement of Sharon's plan.

Bush urged the Palestinians to match Israel's "boldness and courage."

Specifically, Bush said a final peace deal should call for Palestinian refugees to be settled in a Palestinian state, not in Israel.

Bush said the "realities on the ground and in the region have changed greatly" and should be reflected in any final peace deal a key concession, sought by Sharon, to the fact that Israel has large groups of settlers in the West Bank.

Sharon said he was encouraged by Bush's support, which the Israeli leader had sought as a way to boost his own party's support. The Israeli leader said his "disengagement" plan would improve Israel's security and economy, and set the right conditions for negotiations with the Palestinians.

Asked outright if the United States recognized Israel's right to keep some settlements in the West Bank, Bush said Sharon had started the process of removing settlements from the West Bank.

He said final decisions about Israeli settlements in the West Bank had to wait for "final status" negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians on a Palestinian state.

Bush emphasized that the security fence Israel is building against Palestinian terror attacks "should be temporary rather than permanent, and therefore not prejudice any final status issues, including final borders."

Both the Palestinians and Israelis have responsibilities to undertake in the search for peace, Bush said. Today, Israel "stepped up to those responsibilities," Bush said, and Palestinians must do the same.

"If all parties choose to embrace this moment, they can open the door to progress and put an end to one of the world's longest-running conflicts," Bush said.

Sharon is hoping Bush can help him persuade hardliners in his Likud Party to back a withdrawal. Some 200,000 Likud members are to vote on the pullout plan, and approval is not assured.

Sharon has said he would honor the outcome of the vote, but has not spoken about resigning if he loses. However, his vice premier, Ehud Olmert, on Tuesday referred to such a possibility. If the Likud members vote no, "they are destroying the political basis of the government headed by Sharon," Olmert told Israel Army Radio. Olmert said some opponents of the disengagement are trying to topple Sharon.

MavKikiNYC
04-15-2004, 01:38 AM
Now there's a keen analysis---GWB responsible for unrest in Middle East.

One-note samba.

Mavdog
04-15-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Now there's a keen analysis---GWB responsible for unrest in Middle East.

One-note samba.

Abridged: GWBush clumsily throws water on any hope for progress in reaching agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

EricaLubarsky
04-15-2004, 05:44 PM
Sharon is an asshole. Palestine has no legitimate leader.

I blame Harry Truman and Adolf Hitler and the Israelis and the Palestinians, and many muslim nations and Great Britain and France. There is a lot of blame to go around. It's a complex issue that has spanned 56 years.

I personally don't think there is any right way to do things. As a Jewish person who knows the old testament, Israel was our homeland, but it was never a sovereign nation ruled by Jewish elders. Even in the Bible, many people lived in that area. Yes I feel connected to that area, but so do Palestinians who have been living there at least as long. The land doesn't clearly belong to anyone. It was nice that Truman gave us that land after tens of millions of my people died in the Holocaust, but it just set up a lot of problems.

There are a couple of solutions.
1) although the entirety of Israel belongs to both groups, split up the nation fairly. This won't make either party happy because they would both lose some of their land
2) one party decides to leave. I would gladly invite my aunt and uncle to move to the USA. It would require us to give up land that is ours, but its like apologizing something you arent at fault for to help a situation. The USA could stop sending 100s of Millions of dollars in aid to Israel, and we would see the amount of middle east violence effectively reduced by at least half. Of course either group could do it, but the Palestinians are in for the long haul. Maybe I'm too feminine but I think we should give up our bigheadedness and do what calms the situation.

nowitzki_prophecy
04-15-2004, 08:17 PM
To actualy criticize Sharon you have to explain what he did wrong,so far all i've seen is "Sharon should stfu","there may be peace IN SPITE of Sharon",or the most elaborate "Sharon is an ASSHOLE".
It must be quite easy seating back on an American Comfort with a beer and some pizza,and deciding who's right and wrong by what CNN says/shows,or not shows.
Whats going on on the surface is not the same...
The entire palestinian so called leadership is soaked with terrorisem,Arafat,Abu Alla,and just about every palestinian politician is involved with Hamas,Jihad,Hizballa and so on... Hell,we found documents signed be Arafat authorizing suicide bombings...
You want us to talk to him???? Do you all have any idea of what this man has done??? And he gets the full support of the palestinian people.


I personally don't think there is any right way to do things. As a Jewish person who knows the old testament, Israel was our homeland, but it was never a sovereign nation ruled by Jewish elders. Even in the Bible, many people lived in that area. Yes I feel connected to that area, but so do Palestinians who have been living there at least as long. The land doesn't clearly belong to anyone.[quote]


What the hell are you talking about?? what land??? do you even know what they're arguing about? Its not us or them, the palestinians wants israel to move back to its borders from 67',prior to the "6 day war" and Yom kipor war when we were attacked by the entire middle east and won, they have the audacity to DEMAND the land we rightfully fought for and won over.
As one of my people i thought you'd know that little piece of information,but you prefer blabbing without having any idea of what you are talking about.

[quote]
It was nice that Truman gave us that land after tens of millions of my people died in the Holocaust, but it just set up a lot of problems.

I really am sorry that israels existence isn't easy for you,i know it must be tough living in the US watching ball games and having some much needed rest while YOUR PEOPLE have to think twice before stepping outside their door.
Im being drafted in a couple of monthes and let me tell you,im proud to defend my country,and i will die if necessary defending it.
People like you who call themselvs "my people" know nothing about how its like,and are nothing like the jews who live in israel.
You see israel as a place to go if the shit hits the fans in America,maybe a nice place to visit here and there,but not as a reality and certainly not as a home.
Dont presume more than you should,you'r jewish,not an israeli,you have no idea what its like,and you probably never will.

BTW,its 6 Million,not tens,any idiot can tell you that.

dude1394
04-15-2004, 08:21 PM
Sharon and bush are finally changing the status quo in the middle east. There is no palestinian leader that can honestly broker a peace deal. It's another failed arab culture. The wall will force the palestinians to take care of themselves for a change versus blowing up little babies.

Arafat (nobel peace prize winner) has desecrated the palestinian people. They will be much better off when he is gone.