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FishForLunch
04-15-2004, 01:14 PM
Can people on the left contrast Uni-lateral vs Multi-Lateral

The democrats keeps saying uni-lateral but will not say which countries should join the coalition to make it Multi-lateral.

This is like defining what income range defines rich. The democrats are careful to not put out the income range that makes one fall out of the middle class.

Mavdog
04-15-2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by: FishForLunch
Can people on the left contrast Uni-lateral vs Multi-Lateral

well fish, unilateral entails one acts without others commonly affected by those acted upon, multilateral is when they act together.


The democrats keeps saying uni-lateral but will not say which countries should join the coalition to make it Multi-lateral.

I'm sure you'd agree there's a pecking order on importance of nations.


This is like defining what income range defines rich. The democrats are careful to not put out the income range that makes one fall out of the middle class.

you'll need to re-write this for it to make any sense. I think I know what "put out" means, and it's nothing to do with demos and repubs...

FishForLunch
04-15-2004, 07:58 PM
Britan, Spain, Italy, Poland , Japan , Australia are with the Coalition. These are the few countries that helped us most when we needed them. The rest of those bastards can go fuck themselves.

Chiwas
04-15-2004, 11:03 PM
Fish, there are many more nations fighting and helping the US at Iraq. And I said AT Iraq, not only from outside Iraq.

Evilmav2
04-16-2004, 01:51 AM
Britan, Spain, Italy, Poland , Japan , Australia are with the Coalition. These are the few countries that helped us most when we needed them. The rest of those bastards can go fuck themselves.

Albania, Britain, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Spain and the Ukraine all have troops serving in Iraq today, and other nations have provided significant financial support for coalition freedom building efforts.

As much as I enjoy your usual contributions on this forum Fish, I will say that your initial list of countries who should feel no need to go "fuck themselves" was a little short...

Chiwas
04-16-2004, 11:28 AM
April 16, 2004; 10:22
El Salvador: the "hero" soldier that died in Iraq
Juan José Dalton/apro

Guaymango, El Salvador. - - To Doña Herminia Branches of Méndez the tears furrowed their face to him; the pain by the loss of its Natividad son is incomparable. It not only died far from his, but in a war that the Méndez Branches consider injusta, although the government catalogues it like humanitaria and a contribution to the international fight against the terrorismo. The doliente mother does not find words to express her pain, but to ask for to the Salvadoran government the return to him to house of the soldiers sent to Iraq, so that otras mothers do not have to suffer what it now is suffering.

The son of Herminia, a humble farmer of 45 years of age and dedicated to agricultural and domestic workings, was called Natividad Méndez. He hardly had when dying 19 years of age. was third of my six children, the heartbroken woman says, that of time in time she requests God to him that gives to will and strength him. Natividad Méndez became Sunday 4 of April the first soldier Salvadoran who dies in actions battle in Iraq, where was outstanding from last February. Her mother told to Apro that tried to persuade its son so that not it go to the mission, but he went happy and it had the hope to return healthy.

The family of the deceased resides in the small village San Andrés, jurisdiction of Guaymango, to about 90 kilometers to the West of San Salvador and in the western province of Ahuachapán. The small village counts on 12 made poor houses with marinates and roofing tiles. In the small house of the Méndez family Branches, the floor of the room is the only thing encementado, the rest is of pure earth that, although clean, shows the poverty of this people. Within the small house Doña Herminia is sitting in a rustic chair and was consoled by one of its daughters. small house is of my property. My Natividad son I helped to raise it me and am what has left, the mother counts. (its son) went contented to its mission.

The first group that was returned of Iraq without problems and thus we are going to return, said my son to me, memory Doña Herminia, and repeats it constantly. The last time that spoke on the telephone with Natividad was the past 15 of March and remembers that it listened to it with grand feeling (...) was stayed as two minutes without speaking. The mother wanted to give to understand that his son had a feeling his fatal destiny. Commando of special forces Natividad was member of the Battalion of Parachutists of the Special Forces of El Salvador. He was chosen to integrate the second contingent of troops who the government has sent, the 3 of February, to Iraq like part of an international coalition that collaborates with the United States as soon as this power demolished by the force, in April of the last year, to the regime of Sadam Husein.

Méndez soldier, like the rest of the 380 Salvadorans destined to Iraq, was in the Muslim sagrada city of Nayaf, where radical violent Shia carried out Sunday manifestations in front of the quarter of the multinational troops of the Extreme Brigade Plus, to that Cuscatlán is assigned the Battalion, as well as soldiers of Spain, Dominican Republic and of Honduras. In these manifestations the Shia, followers of the radical clergyman Muktada to the Sader, shot against the Spanish and Salvadoran soldiers, with fire of fusilade and rocket launcher, and caused the death of Méndez and hurt 12 Salvadorans more. Two days before three Salvadorans also were wounded, also in Nayaf, by followers of the radical clergyman who is against to the ocupación of his country by foreign forces.

Officially the Salvadoran government confirmed that Méndez was white of a sniper, although versions of the international press assured that it had been captured by the Shiite crowds and that a grenade forced in its mouth had received an atrocious death when exploding to him. is totally false, the body of Méndez is complete and it only has a bullet impact, it talked back colonel Hugo Orellana, head of the Battalion Cuscatlán, seated in Nayaf. Hero or victim In the small village San Andrés is deep sadness and preoccupation. Natividad was very well-known, but in addition along with he other three young people to this poor community are in Iraq. boy of here close, of the small village Santa Elena, also is in Iraq... That is to say, of of the zone there were five in Nayaf here, to the south of Iraq, a neighbor of the region counts. The neighbors roam around the doliente family to take care of any necessity.

President Francisco Flowers declared Natinal Hero to Méndez soldier and he reaffirmed his determination to maintain the Salvadoran troops in Iraq. Also the government of the United States, through his embassy in San Salvador, emitted an official notice in laments his Méndez death. we are going to ensure the victory against flagella the terrorism and the dictatorships, we must follow together before the adversity, it says the official notice of the American embassy. responsibility to help, still at the cost of our lives, to the construction of the democracy and La Paz in the world is inescapable, because similarly the world helped to construct La Paz us that we lived 12 years ago. Today more than ever we have the firm determination to maintain the presence of our Armed Forces in the workings of reconstruction and reestablishment of La Paz and the democracy in Iraq, president Flores reiterated. But about San Andrés, the mother of the dead soldier does not think about the same. was necessary that he (its son) outside...

It was because the president has thrown them for there. It was Salvadoran and had to take care of his country, Doña Herminia said, who considers that?es better than brought them (to all the Salvadorans in Iraq) so that they do not continue suffering. Also, one of the cousins of the fallen soldier, the young person Jose Luis Beltrán, of 16 years of age, showed that very sad, because it passed away far from his home, in other earth was. that these (welded) no longer would have to go to places to which do not belong, it pointed Beltrán. The solicitor for the Defense of the Human rights, Beatrice de Carrillo, indicated that to say that the soldier died by Shiite attacks, is a hero, is a rhetoric from the government to alleviate the pain the families, mainly when is humble people, like Méndez Branches. is a hero, is a victim of the policy of the presidency and the Legislative Assembly (Parliament), it stressed the civil employee. Parties of opposition, In front Farabundo Martí for Liberacio'n Nacional (FMLN) and Centro Democra'tico Unidos (CDU), affirmed that after Easter and when the legislative exercise is started again, they would put under the plenary session an urgent management to order to the government the return of the troops, that in only two days of disturbances in Nayaf had 16 losses, among them a dead. The Ministry of the National defense is outstanding in the small village of San Andrés to a square of soldiers to the control of the captain Jose Carlos Estrada. to take care of the necessities of this doliente family here. The mother of Méndez has requested us whom we construct a niche to him to our companion in the cemetery of Guaymango, it affirmed Estrada, that aimed that Méndez will be buried (not yet it knows when) with all the military honorses of falling in combat.

While, the small village San Andrés, whose population is mainly catholic, is prepared to give to the last prayers to an admired young person by those who knew it and that has left to a mother with an emptiness that never will be able to fill, less when considers that it went to a war that is not right. Méndez was the only formal support of its family, whose mother it is widow and to whom have left five children. The compensation will receive the mother of the "hero" would be of 2 thousand 230 dollars, a very small amount of money compared with the value of a human life.

Article in Spanish (http://www.proceso.com.mx/noticia.html?nid=23166&cat=3)

dude1394
04-16-2004, 07:38 PM
Good grief are all liberals as obtuse as kerry. The man is asking WHICH countries makes this "coalition" an acceptable coalition. From where I sit it's germany, france, russia. All sadaam iraqi oil and weapon partners.

FishForLunch
04-19-2004, 09:04 PM
Using UN as an excuse Spain withdraws, but atleast our true friends the Poles are back filling.

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MADRID (Reuters) - The process of withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq (news - web sites) has begun and will be completed in less than six weeks, Spain's new government said on Monday.

Defense Minister Jose Bono said he would not give dates for the troop pullout for security reasons. But when asked at a news conference about a reported estimate of the time needed for withdrawal, Bono said: "Whoever said six to eight weeks was being imprudent because it will be less."

A military plane left on Monday with troops and equipment to help carry out the withdrawal, Bono said. Originally that flight was to have been for a routine troop rotation. State television said 194 soldiers were on board.

Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, sworn in as Spain's prime minister on Saturday, announced on Sunday he had given orders for Spain's 1,400 troops in Iraq "to come home in the shortest possible time and the greatest possible safety."

Zapatero said he was making good on a longstanding campaign promise to bring home the troops unless the United Nations (news - web sites) took charge there politically and militarily by June 30.

He said he took his decision so soon because consultations with U.N. and world leaders showed there was no way a U.N. mandate meeting Spain's conditions was possible.

Zapatero ousted a strongly pro-American party in elections held three days after the March 11 train bombings in Madrid that killed 191 people. A video purportedly from al Qaeda said the attacks were a response to Spanish actions in Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites).

President Bush (news - web sites) expressed regret on Monday to Zapatero over the decision and warned Madrid against taking further actions that could give "false comfort to terrorists," a White House spokesman said.

Though Spain's troops represent less than one percent of the coalition forces on the ground, Zapatero's decision creates more problems for the United States, whose forces are locked in fierce fighting in Iraq.

The withdrawal has raised fears in the United States that other coalition members could follow suit.

Poland pledged on Monday to keep its soldiers in Iraq but ruled out sending more soldiers to replace the Spaniards.

Bono said Spain was not running from a fight.

"The Spanish armies never run, but they always obey their government," Bono said.

NO U.S. BACKLASH SEEN

Spain was not expecting any economic backlash for the withdrawal -- U.S. consumers boycotted French products after Paris refused to back Washington's decision to go to war -- and the U.S. government was still "a friend and a partner," Deputy Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega said.

In Iraq, radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr called for a halt to attacks on Spanish troops in Iraq because they were pulling out.

The response from European capitals was muted, some European policymakers expressing support or respect for Zapatero's move.



The withdrawal "does not mean that Spain is giving up its commitment to the stability and democratization of Iraq," Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said in a speech in Madrid.

"And of course, we will be the leading actors in the international fight against terrorism," he said.

Former Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar defied overwhelming public opinion and supported Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq. Aznar then sent Spanish troops there after the fall of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).

Zapatero, then opposition leader, was a strident critic of the Iraq war all along.

dude1394
04-19-2004, 09:15 PM
Spain was not expecting any economic backlash for the withdrawal -- U.S. consumers boycotted French products after Paris refused to back Washington's decision to go to war -- and the U.S. government was still "a friend and a partner," Deputy Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega said.

I wouldn't bet on it. It has with this american.