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View Full Version : Game 7, down by 2 points, 1 second left


FineCubanCigar
03-19-2001, 12:38 AM
who takes the shot Dirk or Finley ...

I gotta go with the Findawg, to bad its inexplicable though . . . I just think he would have a greater chance of sinking it whatever the statistics say, call me ignorant.

FineCubanCigar
03-19-2001, 12:43 AM
bye the way, sorry i haven't been around, went to South Padre for spring break . . . drinks plus women always = good clean fun i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

IZZO
03-19-2001, 07:11 AM
With finley, you have a better shot of a guy taking a terrible shot...a 23 foot turn around fadeaway
give it to dirk or nash. they shoot better and they take smarter shots

dallmav
03-19-2001, 07:50 AM
Nash, everyone else is expecting fin or Dirk to take it.

djb
03-19-2001, 07:52 AM
Donnell Harvey

LonestarROB
03-19-2001, 08:32 AM
With ya IZZO. Finley won't get you a good shot most of the time. I'd give it to Dirk.

djb
03-19-2001, 08:40 AM
Fin takes a lot of bad shots but I'd probably still give him the ball down the stretch (remember the San Antonio and Orlando games?). If not him, then I'd let Nash drive to the basket and either get the foul or kick it out to an open Dirk (or Fin). Man dontcha just love all these options?!

IZZO
03-19-2001, 09:18 AM
yeah, i remember those two games. but i can also remember countless bad shot attempts by finley in key situations. he's a great player and he's becoming more of a team player (which is awesome for the mavs). but, if i need someone to knock down a shot, i go with nash or dirk. both of them are better at driving to the hole. dirk is better at getting to the free throw line..and both are better outside shooters.
finley's an awesome player, but i don't even think he's one of the top two most valuable players on this team. I think dirk has just completely taken over control of this team on so many occassions (especially since the all star break). Yes, dirk, nash, finley, howard, and a shawn bradley playing solid defense are all imperative to this teams success. But, without dirk or without nash, i think this team struggles to get above .500 winning percentage.
just my hot sports opinion. but look around the league, teams are terrified of dirk now. i think they now recognize him as the man in Big D
.

djb
03-19-2001, 10:17 AM
Right now I think Fin would automatically be the number one option out of respect (well perhaps that would have been the case earlier this season). Personally, I'd go with whoever's having a good shooting night. If Fin or Dirk's been throwing up bricks the whole night, I'd look elsewhere.

03-19-2001, 11:17 AM
it's obvious that different players are hot different nights, that's the truth with any team. i think it's to the point to where dirk has as much or possibly even more respect around the league than does finley. finley just isn't a good shooter so i wouldn't want him taking the last shot of the game if it was game 7. dirk or nash, in general, would probably be the best bet because they drive better and the shoot the jumpshot much more effectively

scooterj5
03-19-2001, 01:58 PM
I'd give the ball to Fin- he's hit so many buzzer beaters!!

FineCubanCigar
03-19-2001, 02:27 PM
you guys remember when Fin stole the ball right out of some guys hands around midcourt, almost stepped out of bounds, ran down the court and slammed for a game winning 2 pts... forget who it was against cauz it was a while back, but man that was sweet. . .

IZZO
03-19-2001, 03:08 PM
do you remember the time where the mavs were down and finley takes a wild turnaround fade away jumpshot that barely hits rim at the end of the game? i do, it happens more often than the game winners

TheKid
03-19-2001, 03:22 PM
Well I know he has about four game winners this season. Do you remember the Knicks game at New York, when they go into double overtime. They lost the game, but if it wasn't for Fin, they don't even have the chance. There are many other games that he has won for them. Bad shots in all. You know if he takes a lot of bad shots it's only because he's the one who is taking shots in those situations all the time. I'd go with Fin too, although, I wouldn't be mad with Dirk shooting also.

LonestarROB
03-19-2001, 04:05 PM
Yes, he had the buzzer beater to force overtime in the Knick game but he also had the airball(wild fadeaway) at the end of the overtime period in the same game, that cost us that game.

LonestarROB
03-19-2001, 04:10 PM
btw FCC, I remember that game too(vaguely). I think it was against the Knicks in Dallas.

Mavinator
03-19-2001, 05:07 PM
With ONE second left? No time to make a play here guys. Finley is a whole lot better at making crazy, out-of-control garbage shots than Dirk and Nash. Give it to Finley, watch him chuck it up, and watch it go in...

Evilmav2
03-19-2001, 06:21 PM
Dirk launches an off balance three pointer as the clock winds down to zero... At the same time Shawn Bradley slips free from his defender and cuts to the basket... The ball caroms off of the front of the rim as Bradley elevates his mantis arms and tips the ball for the win... The dejected faithfull of the Rose Garden file out to their cars angrily blaming their Blazers for not controlling a "stiff" like Bradley... How could they let him get 18 rebounds, six blocks, and three steals, as well as let him make the game winning tip-in?

Mavinator
03-19-2001, 06:28 PM
Hahah, I like Evilmav's scenario better than mine...

scooterj5
03-20-2001, 02:04 AM
Fin also hit winners against the Magic and Spurs this season, and I remember in 97-98 I think he got back-to-back game winners. He is mo' clutch than anybody not called Reggie Miller in this league.

LAM0015
03-20-2001, 02:49 PM
finpooch hits more game winners because he has taken more shots with the clock winding down. he's too much of a pissy ball hog when the clock is running down. a quick synopsis of michael finley's thought process as time is running down..."umm, i'm a 45 percent shooter, there's 3 seconds left, ..umm, dirk's open, nash is open, ..juwan is open,..well, we're down two, umm, let's see...hmm, how about i shoot the ball, i'm only 23 feet from the basket facing the wrong direction though...., yeah, i'll shoot it"

i'll admit, he's a quick thinker to get all of that thinking done in three seconds, but remember the moral to the story...don't shoot turn around fadeaway 23 footers when other better shooters are open. oh yeah, he missed the shot, barely hit rim, but who cares, he made a game winner a few weeks ago. it doesn't matter that it was a bad shot that he took with other people open...besides, why should we expect him to make it, he's a 45% shooter. no pressure

djb
03-20-2001, 02:52 PM
Although I don't completely agree with LAM0015's analysis, what I will say is that I hate it when Fin waits until the shotclock winds down to about 3-4secs before making his move. This usually leaves very little time for him to get off an open shot (which explains those ugly, off-balanced shots he often throws up).

TheKid
03-20-2001, 03:05 PM
What game was that the Nash took that shot at the buzzer, then somehow got the ball back and hucked up another one and missed it. The only problem with the second one, DIRK, FIN and EISLEY were all standing wide open? What do you think was going through his mind? Well I haven't shot well this game, but let me take this. Shit I missed, well I got the ball back, should I pass it, no let me shoot it again.

Say what you want about Finley throwing up garbage, if garbage goes in, I'll take it. Oh and that other shot his missed in the second overtime, that's nit picking. Would they have even been in a second overtime if he didn't hit the first one. I do remember that game because I was there at that game. He carried them that game, so if he missed a game winner in a second overtime, so what, because everyone else was terrible that game.

LAM0015
03-20-2001, 03:12 PM
as i've said all along, finley is a good player, ..well above average,... no, i don't think he's a great NBA player. i think we throw the term "Great" around too much. I don't think that there are that many great players in the NBA. I think by saying "Great", the guy we're referring to is a potential hall of famer. dirk isn't great, but he does have that potential. finley will never make it to that level. dirk probably won't, but he's young enough and he does have that potential.
finley is a solid player that sometimes forgets about the other players on the floor. but he doesn't do this often. yes, he does take alot of bad shots because he plays the one-on-one game with his opponent and waits until there's just a couple of seconds left on the shot or game clock and has to throw up a prayer turnaround fadeaway jumpshot.

i think we're giving him too much credit to an extent. everyone keeps talking about how unselfish he's been this year. Isn't that his job to help the team win? Should he be taking as many shots as he did last year? the answer is "NO". why shouldn't he? because the mavericks have players on the team that can also score. as seen this year, they actually have a player on the team that can score better and more effectively than he can. Yes, each player does make each other better. that is obvious.... there's not a really selfish player on the team. Finley is a good player but he's taking less shots this year because "HE SHOULD BE TAKING LESS SHOTS THIS YEAR". He's not the most effective or dangerous scorer anymore. Yes, he's an amazing all around offensive threat. Yes, he is...yes he's an all star. i've never denied that. but get a grip on how much you worship him...he's not michael jordan..he's not reggie miller.... he's not a great player...he's a well above average player. don't be so naive that you fail to realize the amazing talents of other players on the team. I know that all of you don't do this...but some of you do. just open your eyes and appreciate everything that the mavs have to offer as a team and you will see that finley is now just a part of a good team instead of the leader of a bad team. which would you rather have?

yes, i'll admit, i have been harsh on finley, and for that, i apologize

TheKid
03-20-2001, 03:54 PM
Like I said, you voiced your opinion and I voiced mine. I don't necessarily agree with you. I don't think he's Michael Jordan, I don't think he's as deadly a shooter as Reggie Miller either. However do I think he has the potential to become great? YES! Do I think he has the potential to be the greatest Dallas Maverick? YES! Does that mean I think he has the potential to be a hall of famer? YES! Now one thing I'll agree with you on, I don't think there are many great players in the NBA either, THAT'S why I think Finley is near the top! Now take Finley and put him in the 80's you're right, he's an AVERAGE PLAYER! I agree, but in this league, he's a PREMIER player IN MY EYES! Now you don't have to agree with it, I don't care if you do or don't, that's my opinion.

In the same way, do I think Dirk can be great YES! Never said he sucked either, I'm just not willing to call him the savior yet. Which I've heard several people willing to do with him and Nash. While I think Dirk has the potential to be great, I do NOT think Nash has that potential. HE is the one who is solid at best.

So to answer your question I like Finley the way he is, which is an ALL-STAR and the leader of this team. He's being unselfish and let me tell you something he doesn't have to. Look at Kobe, look at the nonsense going on there. Even Portland has done their share of bickering too. So like I said, it takes a GREAT PLAYER to take a lessor role and not complain about it if it's for the better of the team. People like Jordan and Magic did it. People like Dominique Wilkens who was an EXTRAORDINARY talent wouldn't, and that's what seperates him very being an UNSTOPPABLE offensive talent and a GREAT all around player! Mike is a great all around player!

TheKid
03-20-2001, 03:57 PM
Also just another quick comment. For all the comments regarding Finley throwing shots up. Special players only have that ability to get off that many shots a game. Do you think Greg Buckner has the ability to get up 20 shots a game, night in and night out! HELL NO! What about Trent? NO! That's why I say, Finley and Dirk are awesome because they have the ability to get their shots off. THOSE two make shots available for everyone else, but it all starts with FIN, so give him his props!

FineCubanCigar
03-20-2001, 04:29 PM
but who would you rather have taking the shot?

Evilmav2
03-20-2001, 05:35 PM
I say we do the best with Nash trying to create in the final play, and taking whatever the defense gives him... If they give him room, then he can take a high percentage jumper... If they play up on him, then he can drive the lane to try to score or else kick it back out to Fin or especially Dirk in the corner (that is always a beautiful thing to see)...

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 07:18 AM
ability to get shots off?..umm, yes, he also has the ability to miss 55% of the shots he throws up. he also has the ability to miss 70% of the three pointers he throws up. and he also has the ability to miss around 24% of the free throws that he puts up. let's commend him for that

TheKid
03-21-2001, 07:23 AM
Lam, great shooting percentage doesn't equate into a great scorer. Look at the NBA's top scorer Iverson. His shooting percentages are TERRIBLE, however he has the ability to get his shots off and score a lot of points. So according to you if percentages mean so much, down the stretch of a game I should give the ball to Nowitzki before, Iverson, Kobe, Vince Carter because he shoots better than all of them. (Except for Carter from the three point range) Stop focusing on ONLY percentages because it's NOT the only barometer of a player's ability.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 07:53 AM
yes, i know iverson's percentage is terrible. the great scorers are players that score alot and can shoot the ball. Part of scoring is shooting alot. yes, i'll give you that. that's obvious. does iverson shoot way too much? yeah, he probably does. would iverson be a much better player if he took less shots and looked to dish to other players? probably. would philadelphia be a better team if iverson shot less? maybe not, they simply don't have as many scorers as the mavericks.
would finley be a better player if he shot less, took less bad shots? yes, definitely. would dallas be a better team? yes, the mavericks have players on the team that can score when he doesn't take bad shots.

TheKid
03-21-2001, 08:37 AM
Well it's funny you mention that Lam. You're a stats guy too so you should be up on this. Last year Mike was FOURTH in the NBA in average shots taken per game. So this year he's slid down to TENTH. So we can attribute the Mavericks success to the fact that he's reduced his shots right? Well the funny part is he only takes ONE SHOT less per game than he did last year. So he takes an average of ONE LESS shot and now the Mavericks have become a playoff team. So yes I see how you equate his taking bad shots to the team doing bad. So next year if he takes two less shots per game, they'll be NBA champions right?

The reason I point this out is he won't become a better player if he takes less shots. Maybe better shots, but not less. You keep criticizing his shot selection but not everyone has the ability to get shots off. Mike is one of the few players in the NBA who has that ability. Which is what makes him special. So you can say he takes bad shots, but he shoots 45% from the field which is good for a predominately perimeter player.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 09:07 AM
the reason why 45% would be exceptable for a guard is because,typically, there average is driven down because of three point percentage. Now, as you know, a three pointer is worth one more point than a two point shot. But, in michael finley's case, a three pointer is, 70% of the time, worth no points. Therefore, not only does finley have a bad two point percentage, but he also has a terrible three point percentage. Not to mention, for a 2-guard, he doesn't have that good of a free throw percentage. Much of his field goal percentage and three point percentage woes can be attributed to poor shot attempts. Yes, 45% would be acceptable for a 2 guard if he shot better from behind the three point line. generally, you'd like to see a 2-guard (or anyone else that takes many three point attempts) shoot at least 35-40% from three point range. Since michael finpooch does not, it makes his field goal percentage even worse.