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View Full Version : Direction of the War in Iraq


FishForLunch
05-22-2004, 06:13 PM
For more than six weeks, Sadr has defied U.S. demands to surrender and disband his Mahdi Army militia. His defiance might earn him hero status, some soldiers believe, making him more and more difficult to crush. "He just looks bigger the more it goes on," Cortes said.

A soldier on patrol Friday who declined to let his name be published said the withdrawal from the Mukhaiyam mosque perplexed U.S. troops. They fought to win the mosque, losing three comrades. "It's hard for us to figure out why we took it in the first place if we were just going to let it go before finishing off Mookie," the soldier said, using the infantrymen's nickname for Sadr.

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Does anyone else feel that Bush is going soft in the fight against the Falluja terrorists and Mookie. Why dont they just finish the job completely, I dont understand why we pull back at the last moment. I knew this constant sob story about the "innocent Iraqi detainees" having panties over their heads is going to be a drag on our efforts in Iraq.

dude1394
05-22-2004, 08:12 PM
I can't quite say. It seems that way from afar, but listening to some of the marine emails back home, it's actually worked pretty much to perfection, forcing the iraqi's to do something instead of sitting on there arse's waiting for someone else to do it.

If we had levelled fallujah, I'm not exactly sure how sistain and the shiites would have reacted. I DO KNOW how kerry and the leftists would have reacted, more of the same..

I read somewhere recently that we should have shot the first 50 people stealing stuff after sadaam fell, in hindsight that really sounds about right.

dude1394
05-22-2004, 08:14 PM
I never completely trust the lone soldier as he's not in the loop a lot. The guy I heard seemed to be in on the decision making however. It's a tough call. Now if we dropped a big one and killed the whole town, that would be some good but also a lot of bad. tough call.

FishForLunch
05-24-2004, 03:12 PM
Did anyone see 60 minutes yesterday. The weekly Bush bashing guest this time was Gen Anthony Zinni. He said the only good thing that happened was the superb showing of the Army taking Bagdad, following the taking of bagdad he said everything went down hill. He suggested that Rumsfield, Bremer and Wolfowitz be canned for screwing the Post War phase. He said he would have got the UN and Nato helping to solve the post war chaos as the US is not capable of such a task.

I think it is better to have elections in stages, first the peacful North, followed by the Shia South once mookie is eliminated and Iran's influence is stopped, finally followed by the Sunni Middle. I think the swiss model will better fit Iraq, Iraq was forced together by the Brits and maintained by brutal strongmen.


Swiss Model of Democracy

A THREE-TIER FEDERATION
Switzerland is small -- about one quarter the size of the US State of
Ohio -- and it is divided into 26 areas called cantons. The cantons
are comprised of approximately 3000 communes. A central or federal
government links the cantons into one unified country, but this
central government controls only those affairs which are of interest
to all the cantons. These matters of common interest include foreign
policy, national defense, federal railways and the mint. All other
issues -- education, labor, economic and welfare policies and so on --
are determined by the governments of the cantons and communes. Each
canton has its own parliament and constitution and they differ
substantially from one another. The communes, which vary in size from
a few hundred to more than a million people, also have their own
legislative and executive councils. The cantonal and communal
governments are elected by the citizens resident in their areas of
jurisdiction.

ADVANTAGES OF DECENTRALIZATION
Embraces Diversity. One important reason for this de-centralization of
power in Switzerland is that, unlike most European countries,
Switzerland is made up of several different major ethnic groups --
Germans, French, Italians, and Rhaeto-Romansch. Over the centuries,
whenever conflicts have arisen between these language groups, and
between Catholics and Protestants, the Swiss have resolved the
conflict by allowing each of the warring groups to govern themselves.
Thus single cantons have divided into half-cantons, new cantons have
been formed and border communes have opted to leave one canton to join
another. In this way the Swiss have developed a system which permits
people of different languages, cultures, religions and traditions to
live together in peace and harmony. This makes the Swiss system
particularly well suited to ethnically-divided countries.

Maximizes Competition Among Policies. Because so many decisions are
made at the local level, the Swiss are closely involved with the laws
and regulations which affect their lives -- and because each canton is
different, they are also able to see for themselves which policies
work best. For example, one canton might have high taxes and expensive
welfare programs, while another might opt for low taxes and private
charity. Each Swiss citizen can then decide which policy suits him
best and "vote with his feet" by moving to the canton which he finds
the most attractive. The result is that good policies tend to drive
out bad.

Mavdog
05-24-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by: FishForLunch
Did anyone see 60 minutes yesterday. The weekly Bush bashing guest this time was Gen Anthony Zinni. He said the only good thing that happened was the superb showing of the Army taking Bagdad, following the taking of bagdad he said everything went down hill. He suggested that Rumsfield, Bremer and Wolfowitz be canned for screwing the Post War phase. He said he would have got the UN and Nato helping to solve the post war chaos as the US is not capable of such a task.

we must have seen 2 different shows. I heard that the US invasion was well done, but once Bagdadh was taken & the Iraqi infrastructure vanished the US has been fumbling along making one mistake after another. He suggested that rather than the US go on as the symbol of the reconstuction, having a different face on the occupation would allow for progress in establishing an Iraqi governed society. I didn't hear that Zinni ever said that the US isn't "capable".


I think it is better to have elections in stages, first the peacful North, followed by the Shia South once mookie is eliminated and Iran's influence is stopped, finally followed by the Sunni Middle. I think the swiss model will better fit Iraq, Iraq was forced together by the Brits and maintained by brutal strongmen.

just "eliminate" the one's you don't want involved eh?

It is ironic the group that is ending with the most power are the Kurds, who'se rise in influence involves both Syria and Turkey.
Having the Shi'a form a secular government would be valuable, but the only institution remaining are the religious sort.
So far the one group that they're working with are old Baathists.
Zinni is right.

FishForLunch
05-24-2004, 10:11 PM
just "eliminate" the one's you don't want involved eh?

Well you have to start somewhere. Thats how I do it in my life, work on the easy problems first, you may be a different case. I have a no problem with the Kurds, they are ones trying to help themselves improve their fate and not complain that nanny (US) is not doing much to solve all their problems.