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seelenjaeger
08-03-2004, 05:36 AM
Walker to Atlanta for Terry and Henderson (which doesnt work under the Cap, probably Tony Delk will be chipped in to make numbers match) according to ... hehe ... NY Times Online news item from Vecsey.

That would make Kidd to Dallas highly unlikely, but would add just another expiring medium contract in Henderson.

Looks fine for me.

MavsFanFinley
08-03-2004, 05:56 AM
NYPost (http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/26166.htm)

Antoine Heading To Hawks

August 3, 2004

Call it win one, lose one for the Knicks.

While Jamal Crawford is expected to join the Knicks as soon as today in a trade with the Bulls, it looks like Isiah Thomas will lose out on another piece he'd hope to bring to the Garden — Antoine Walker.

That's because Walker will be traded tomorrow from the Mavs to the Hawks for Jason Terry and Alan Henderson, a league source revealed.

Walker, a forward, never really fit in during his one year with the Mavs, and was hoping for a deal to either the Sixers (where he'd have been reunited with ex-Celtic coach Jim O'Brien) or the Knicks.

Walker is owed $14.625M in the final year of his contract. Terry, a guard, has $7.5M and $6.6M left over two years, while Henderson, an injury-prone forward, is owed $8.2M for one year.

—Peter Vecsey

MavKikiNYC
08-03-2004, 05:57 AM
Here it is, in full glory. Doesn't make sense. They take two-for-one and then what?

ANTOINE HEADING TO HAWKS

August 3, 2004 -- Call it win one, lose one for the Knicks.
While Jamal Crawford is expected to join the Knicks as soon as today in a trade with the Bulls, it looks like Isiah Thomas will lose out on another piece he'd hope to bring to the Garden — Antoine Walker.

That's because Walker will be traded tomorrow from the Mavs to the Hawks for Jason Terry and Alan Henderson, a league source revealed.

Walker, a forward, never really fit in during his one year with the Mavs, and was hoping for a deal to either the Sixers (where he'd have been reunited with ex-Celtic coach Jim O'Brien) or the Knicks.

Walker is owed $14.625M in the final year of his contract. Terry, a guard, has $7.5M and $6.6M left over two years, while Henderson, an injury-prone forward, is owed $8.2M for one year.


—Peter Vecsey

mavsfanforever
08-03-2004, 06:57 AM
I love this trade. There were no big men left anyway. This gives us a serviceable PG in Terry who can play some defense and also an expiring contract.

Evilmav2
08-03-2004, 07:24 AM
Dang... Interesting move...

Obviously, other players are probably involved in this, but the skeleton of the deal looks good to me.

Terry is a pretty talented and underrated scoring PG, who has been rotting and double-teamed in Atlanta for the last few years, and my fellow Hoosier Alan Henderson should be able to further solidify our increasingly deep big man rotation (or at least his expiring deal holds value). Again, assuming this is correct, this move looks pretty decent to me (dependent upon emerging details)...

fin4life
08-03-2004, 07:27 AM
but unless we trade henderson straight up, the expiring contract means nothing until the season has already begun when we are allowed to trade him in a package. Maybe it will come in handy at the trade deadline... who knows.

I like the tade but i hate taking back more players. BTW, seelenjaeger, it doesnt need to match up financially because ATL is under the cap so they can take on large contracts.

seelenjaeger
08-03-2004, 07:30 AM
Hmm, this trade still leaves some questions ... with a full roster trading one away adding 2?

Evilmav2
08-03-2004, 07:37 AM
If Vecsey is to be trusted in reporting this trade, it seems to me that there have to be more players involved (Delk?)...

doggnutz
08-03-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
I love this trade. There were no big men left anyway. This gives us a serviceable PG in Terry who can play some defense and also an expiring contract.

I love it to.. Knicks didn't have anybody I wanted, except Stephon and he wasn't going anywhere. It looks as if the Mavs are going to have a blockbuster come Aug. 24. Now I'm happy 1 of the 2 will stay Terry or Stackhouse and we still can pull off something big. I wonder if the Mavs could use the expiring contracts in L8 and Henderson and filler to get Kidd out of NJ. Then use Stack & filler or Terry & filler and get Dampier?

seelenjaeger
08-03-2004, 07:53 AM
It would be nice to dump TaW to Atlanta actually.

So Walker + TaW +3 mill for Terry + Henderson.

madape
08-03-2004, 07:54 AM
Terry is better than anything the Knicks could give us. This is also a better package than anything Philly would have done. If Walker is destined to leave, this deal is about as good as we could expect. Still, it looks like we'll pass on Kidd, and that's a little disappointing. We do still have a hell of a lot of trade assets, so I'm not giving up on Carter yet. Something else is coming, but we may have to wait a little while.

Alan Henderson is a rotten piece of poop. I would rather have the trade exception.

MightyToine
08-03-2004, 07:54 AM
LMAO!! Serves Walker right for opening his big fat mouth. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif


You want to Start, Antoine? You want more PT? More Shots?

WELCOME TO CRAPLANTA! ROFLMAO!!

HexNBA
08-03-2004, 08:08 AM
As people said, why ship out 1 player and take on 2 when you already have an overfull roster. That said, I don't like this trade. I don't like Walker and think he should be shipped out, but surely they can do better than Jason Terry? I'm sure the Mavericks want him to run the point but in just about every article about Terry ever people complain about how he's really a 2 guard instead and would rather shoot the ball than create for others. I'd like to see see a real PG come to Dallas instead.

V
08-03-2004, 08:11 AM
This move makes perfect sense. After all.... IT'S JASON TERRY DAY!!!!!!!

Evilmav2
08-03-2004, 08:14 AM
The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Terry could be scorchingly effective running a Nelson style offense. He's blurringly fast, he's a darned good three point shooter, and he has always looked best while running in an uptempo game (remember when he was NCAA player of the year running and gunning at Arizona in '99? Remember him gunning us for 46 point two years ago while playing in a Mavs' paced game?).

My gut instinct says that this dude may have been born to run and gun for a Nelson-style uptempo offense, and I can't help but imagine that this (reported) trade might end up being another Donnie masterpiece...

nowitzki_prophecy
08-03-2004, 08:15 AM
Obviously more trades will follow,with AJ signing we'll have 3 roster spots to clear before reaguler season begins.


Alan Henderson is a rotten piece of poop. I would rather have the trade exception.

Actualy,if you look at Hendersons stats per 48 minutes,he ain't that bad...

16.9 ppg.14.8 rpg while 7.8 of them are offensive,im not saying he'll start or something,but if healthy,he could be a nice back-up 4 to come off the bench.

seelenjaeger
08-03-2004, 08:18 AM
Terry - Harris
Stackhouse - Daniels
Finley - Howard
Dirk - Najera - Henderson
Booth - Bradley - Benga - Podzolkin

looks nice

Now we have to find a way to package Laettner + Delk / TaW + prolly Henderson for something and we´re set

Actually that makes up for Antonio Davis, doesnt it? I don´t like that guy too much, but he might be a nice complementary piece.

V
08-03-2004, 08:39 AM
Tuesday, August 3, 2004
Mavs, Knicks and Hawks on verge of deals

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

Not long after Insider issued the call for the Mavericks, Knicks and Hawks to get off their butts and do something this offseason, it appears all three teams were on the verge of major trades Monday night.
The biggest, according to the N.Y. Post, has the Mavericks sending forward Antoine Walker to Atlanta for combo guard Jason Terry and forward Alan Henderson. According to the multiple reports, the Knicks and Bulls also looked like they were finally on the verge of working out a Jamal Crawford trade.

They weren't the only teams working the phones. The Grizzlies were still talking to the Bulls about an Eddy Curry swap on Monday. Here's a quick look at what was going on around the league Monday night.
Can Jason Terry replace Steve Nash?

The Walker-Terry trade reported in the Post makes a lot of sense for the Mavs and could also potentially give the Hawks a windfall down the road.
The Mavs have been looking for a starting point guard ever since they lost Steve Nash to Suns in early July. Terry, while not a true point guard, could be a good fit. The Mavs also have rookie Devin Harris, who's much closer to a real point, and Marquis Daniels, who's more of a point forward. Throw in Dirk Nowitzki, who's an excellent ball handler for his size, and it really lessens the need for the Mavs to have a true point in the backcourt.

Still, Terry's no Nash. Nash averaged 8.8 apg, shot 47 percent from the field, 40 percent from the 3 and averaged fewer turnovers per game than Terry did last season.

Terry suffered through his worst season since his rookie year. His 16.8 ppg average came on just 41 percent shooting. His 3-point shooting was down to 34 percent. And his assists were down to 5.4 per game -- a little less than an assist better than Walker averaged in Dallas.

He was unhappy in Atlanta all last season after the team matched a three-year offer sheet from the Jazz, which may help explain his poor performance. He has two years, $14 million left on his contract. Henderson is a throw in. He played just six games last season. He's in the last year of a contract that pays him just over $8.2 million next season.

If the two teams pull the trigger, you can forget about talk of Jason Kidd returning to Big D. Kidd has been dangled to them, but owner Mark Cuban has been reluctant to assume the last five years, $90 million of his contract unless the Nets were willing to take back at least one bad contract in return from Dallas.

With Terry in the fold, the debate becomes moot. There won't be a need for him anymore. Adding Henderson in the deal also gives the Mavs some flexibility to make another big trade. Both Henderson and Christian Laettner come off the books at the end of the season. However, because of trade rules, the two can't be packaged together or with other players in a trade until the end of the year.

Why should the Hawks make the trade? There are several motivations. First, the team saves around $7.6 million in the long run making the trade now. It gives them added cap flexibility next summer when Walker comes off the books and roughly a million extra in cap space this year to pursue a top-flight free agent.

The trade also gives them a versatile big who can play power forward and is still capable of being one of the top passing and shooting big men in the league. Terry's attitude in Atlanta was awful last season and the Hawks definitely would like to clean the slate there. They are already overloaded at the two and three and know he isn't the point guard of the future anyway.

While this isn't the home run the Hawks are looking for, it's a solid start. Walker, who turns 28 in August, is a former all-star who still has plenty of gas left in the tank. He's in a contract year, meaning he's motivated, and the Hawks desperately need to add some more size to the roster.
The team still needs to add a point guard and center to the mix, but will have roughly $11.5 million in cap space (assuming the trade went down) to get it done. Next summer, when Walker and Chris Crawford come off the books, the team will still have enough cash under the cap to make another run at a max free agent. If a combo of Walker, Al Harrington, Josh Childress and whoever the Hawks can add at the point and center can give the Hawks even a respectable season, free agents will start to consider the Hawks a real free-agent destination.

sturm und drang
08-03-2004, 08:56 AM
I like this. From what I've seen of Terry – and I'll admit that I've been a less-than-zealous Hawk watcher the past few years – I think he could be infinitely more effective here than he was in Atlanta. Besides being desperately unhappy rotting away in NBA purgatory, he's seen far too many double-teams there.

Of course, we could have traded Walker for a ham sandwich and I'd be happy. But Terry? That's more than I would've hoped for.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by: sturm und drang
I like this. From what I've seen of Terry – and I'll admit that I've been a less-than-zealous Hawk watcher the past few years – I think he could be infinitely more effective here than he was in Atlanta. Besides being desperately unhappy rotting away in NBA purgatory, he's seen far too many double-teams there.

Of course, we could have traded Walker for a ham sandwich and I'd be happy. But Terry? That's more than I would've hoped for.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I think Terry is just what this team needs. Unlike a lot of people here, I don't have a lot of faith in our rookie PG.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 09:05 AM
Mark Stein's ESPN.com story Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1851245)

This deal is gonna happen.

u2sarajevo
08-03-2004, 09:11 AM
I know little about Terry. I lean on the brain trust of D-M.com for information about him. So far, I have gathered the following, and please correct anything I have wrong.

Terry is an offensive-minded (I read into that he does not play Defense) PG, who was on an untalented team so he got double teamed alot.

So given that, perhaps he will flourish in Dallas. The only "issues" I have is that if he doesn't play much D, is he not just a poor man's Steve Nash? And also, we would be taking back more players than are leaving? I guess that means more deals to come later.

But heck, for Walker? If Atlanta will do that I would drive Walker to Atlanta this afternoon. Save them on the airfare.

edit: I can't spell.

V
08-03-2004, 09:16 AM
I talked to Tom from LMF about Jason Terry. Word around the league has it that Terry is an affable guy. Obviously he can score & should flourish under Nelly. I asked specifically about his defense & was told that he's an adequate defender. He gambles, makes some steals... he can be burned by the smaller, quicker PG's... nothing new.

I actually watched a lot of Atlanta last year when I was trying to get a read on Ratliff. One thing about Jason Terry... his game reminds me of NVE.

u2sarajevo
08-03-2004, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the link Dooby, I am going to go ahead and post the text below:


Expected deal has Kidd-Nets overtones
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1851245)

The Dallas Mavericks are expected to complete a trade Wednesday that will send Antoine Walker to the Atlanta Hawks for guard Jason Terry and forward Alan Henderson, league sources have told ESPN.com.

With the league office closed Tuesday, the deal cannot be finalized before Wednesday, sources said.

The trade increases the likelihood that Jason Kidd will be staying with the New Jersey Nets. One source close to Kidd told ESPN.com last week that Dallas' Mark Cuban appeared to be the only owner in the league willing to absorb the remaining five years and $90 million on Kidd's contract in a trade.

But with the Nets not ready to deal Kidd -- and Kidd not yet demanding a trade -- Cuban opted for an immediate move to help fill the void at point guard created by Steve Nash's departure.

Although Terry is much more of a shooting guard than Nash, he has only two seasons left on a three-year, $24 million deal signed last summer -- making Terry a trade asset as well as a potential Nash replacement. Henderson is entering the final season of a seven-year, $45 million deal, meaning the Mavericks will still have two expiring contracts on the payroll -- Henderson and Christian Laettner -- to peddle in additional trades between now and February.

In Walker, Atlanta gets a former Eastern Conference All-Star who was shopped to several teams because he, too, is in the final year of his contract. Walker thus has ample motivation to put forth a strong season, although he had hoped to go to New York (Isiah Thomas is a 'Toine fan) or Philadelphia (whose new coach is Jim O'Brien, Walker's former boss in Boston).

Sources said the Mavericks have not ruled out pursuing Kidd later in the season, after Kidd proves his health following July 1 knee surgery. Acquiring Terry gives Dallas a point guard to offer New Jersey down the road while also protecting the Mavericks in case they can't strike a deal with the Nets.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 09:19 AM
The combo of Henderson and laetner is two contracts that are tradeable for mondo cap space the equivalent to Walkers. So, in a sense, the benefits of Walker's contract remains intact with this trade.

MikeB
08-03-2004, 09:25 AM
Jason Terry came into the league as a pretty good defender but has not seemed to really work at it...may be coaching or having to be the best scorer on a bad team...who knows? He has defensive ability and IF he comes here and Nellie actually stresses D I think he will be a better defender than Nash...maybe not a whole lot better but an improvement.

u2sarajevo
08-03-2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by: V
I talked to Tom from LMF about Jason Terry. Word around the league has it that Terry is an affable guy. Obviously he can score & should flourish under Nelly. I asked specifically about his defense & was told that he's an adequate defender. He gambles, makes some steals... he can be burned by the smaller, quicker PG's... nothing new.

I actually watched a lot of Atlanta last year when I was trying to get a read on Ratliff. One thing about Jason Terry... his game reminds me of NVE.Thanks for the information V (and MikeB).
V: When you say his game reminds you of NVE, is that the leadership role or the somewhat selfish with the ball (ie. shoot first, pass later) part of his game?

Dooby
08-03-2004, 09:38 AM
Over at LMF, there is rampant talk that the trade doesn't work in realgm. Or using Patricia's numbers. I think it is OK.

If you use the salary figures from hoopshype.com and do the math yourself, the trade works. Mavs can take back up to $16.8M for Walkers salary, which is more than the $15,273,125 that Terry and Harrington make combined.

Not sure why realgm's numbers or patricia's would be any more or less reliable than hoopshype.

Rhylan
08-03-2004, 09:39 AM
I give Nellie 'til Dec 1 before he declares Devin Harris his "secret weapon" and starts playing small ball with Harris at the 1 and Terry at the 2.

edit: hooked on phonics

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 09:39 AM
so where does this leave us with the Kidd situation and secondly everyone keeps saying there will be a blockbuster deal when the 6o days is up, August 24th, but honestly what could happen now?

doggnutz
08-03-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by: Dooby
Over at LMF, there is rampant talk that the trade doesn't work in realgm. Or using Patricia's numbers. I think it is OK.

If you use the salary figures from hoopshype.com and do the math yourself, the trade works. Mavs can take back up to $16.8M for Walkers salary, which is more than the $15,273,125 that Terry and Harrington make combined.

Not sure why realgm's numbers or patricia's would be any more or less reliable than hoopshype.

I thought it was Henderson?

V
08-03-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Originally posted by: V
I talked to Tom from LMF about Jason Terry. Word around the league has it that Terry is an affable guy. Obviously he can score & should flourish under Nelly. I asked specifically about his defense & was told that he's an adequate defender. He gambles, makes some steals... he can be burned by the smaller, quicker PG's... nothing new.

I actually watched a lot of Atlanta last year when I was trying to get a read on Ratliff. One thing about Jason Terry... his game reminds me of NVE.Thanks for the information V (and MikeB).
V: When you say his game reminds you of NVE, is that the leadership role or the somewhat selfish with the ball (ie. shoot first, pass later) part of his game?

A little bit of both I guess. When I saw him play it felt like Terry & SAR were playing two on five offensively. Atl had no other scoring options outside of Stephen Jackson so Terry was consistantly double teamed & the other team played the passing lanes agressively. One game of note... against Memphis, Terry single handedly kept the Hawks in the game late... and he forced overtime. VCoincidently he also beat the Mavs while coming close to a triple double. The guy has tremendous talent.

The main resemblance? Terry has huge nuts, like NVE.

ames7
08-03-2004, 09:53 AM
A while ago, I said if Cuban & Donnie managed to move Walker for almost anything at all except a bad contract, I would immediately declare this offseason a success. This is far better than I expected. I actually really like Terry as a player. This deal cannot go through fast enough.

bobatundi1
08-03-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by: doggnutz

Originally posted by: Dooby
Over at LMF, there is rampant talk that the trade doesn't work in realgm. Or using Patricia's numbers. I think it is OK.

If you use the salary figures from hoopshype.com and do the math yourself, the trade works. Mavs can take back up to $16.8M for Walkers salary, which is more than the $15,273,125 that Terry and Harrington make combined.

Not sure why realgm's numbers or patricia's would be any more or less reliable than hoopshype.

I thought it was Henderson?


It is Henderson. Dooby's numbers are right, just put the wrong name. I agree that the trade should work. Not that I'd complain if we were able to ship someone else off in the deal and/or just take back the trade exception instead of Henderson, given our roster glut.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by: doggnutz

Originally posted by: Dooby
Over at LMF, there is rampant talk that the trade doesn't work in realgm. Or using Patricia's numbers. I think it is OK.

If you use the salary figures from hoopshype.com and do the math yourself, the trade works. Mavs can take back up to $16.8M for Walkers salary, which is more than the $15,273,125 that Terry and Harrington make combined.

Not sure why realgm's numbers or patricia's would be any more or less reliable than hoopshype.

I thought it was Henderson?


It is, just a typo.

DwD
08-03-2004, 10:07 AM
Wasn't Terry also a big part of the Atlanta scrubs team that took Houston to three overtimes last season?

LRB
08-03-2004, 10:21 AM
I don't like taking back two for one in this trade. If Atlanta would take Delk off our hands, then I'd be estatic. Even a Walker for Terry since Atlanta is over the cap would be great.

Finley4ever
08-03-2004, 10:27 AM
Does anyone remember the battle a few years ago between Dirk and Terry, where they were trading baskets the whole game? Terry ended up with about 46 points, while Dirk got about 42, but Dallas won the game. Ever since that game, I have been a fan of Jason Terry's abilities.

V
08-03-2004, 10:31 AM
Hasn't been mentioned ... but it's somewhat encouraging for me that Utah had interest in Terry last summer. Terry is not a Nelly gimmick... if Sloan liked him then it's likely Terry can play a traditional game.

Another note... We know Terry desperately wanted out of Atlanta. How much? Last summer he turned down 7 years $50 mil from Atlanta to sign the 3 year $24 mil deal with Utah. Atlanta matched to keep him but Terry wasn't happy. I don't know many players who would make that kind of sacrifice ... $26 million is a lot of guaranteed money.

Terry wants to win.

MavKikiNYC
08-03-2004, 10:32 AM
Antoine, Antoine, we hardly knew ye.

Jason Terry and Alan Henderson? Man-oh-man, somehow for some reason I was hoping for more--was hoping that the expiring contract, if not AW's expiring skills, would net more. Pipe dream.

I don't like the deal. To be honest, I'm not that familiar with JTerry's game, although the impression I had was of a type of NVE, and, well frankly, I had more than enough of that the first go-around. Does anyone have the sense that the Mavs are trading for yet another player who torched them ($teve Na$h, to be preci$e), but won't perform at that level in a team game?

This means that the Mavs will have gone from a smurf-sized non-defending, ball-hogging, no conscience gunner (NDBHNCG) to the "Toine-sized NDBHNCG, and back to the junior-sized NDBHNCG. And Alan Henderson is a waste of cartiliage.

Nelson's little talk the other day about base hits and grandslams may have given some people hope, but what did he have to say about stranded runners? If EVERYTHING goes right, they will strike it big. If not, they'll be stuck a little bit like last year--too many players at one position, too many scorers, too few defenders, too little chemistry.

I guess it's better not to get too irate until after 24 Aug, but it seems like Donnie is always building house-of-cards trades in a hurricane trading climate.

Tick-tock.........

Chicago JK
08-03-2004, 10:52 AM
Fish take:

Kidd Insurance
Terry Trade Doesn't Kill Kidd Wish

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
A Mavs source tells DallasBasketball.com that the Antoine Walker-for-Jason Terry and Alan Henderson deal could be “part of a bigger picture’’ and that Terry “gives us great protection in case we can’t get anything else done at point guard.’’
That’s a hint that contradicts reports that this deal with Atlanta will kill Dallas’ pursuit of Jason Kidd. It is, rather, an insurance policy against the Mavs’ inability to pull off a deal for Kidd (or another suitable replacement for the departed Steve Nash).
All Mavs owner Mark Cuban will say: “There is still lots of juggling going on.’’
JASON TERRY BIO
The swap that would ship Walker to the Hawks in exchange for Terry (who can play both guard positions and is a capable scorer at 16.8 ppg last year) and Henderson (a throw-in forward whose name comes up annually in Dallas’ search for interior help) therefore means a lot now – and maybe more later:


The ill-fitting Walker (who oughta really love the Hawks!) and his expiring contract fails to net Dallas its needed big man. In fact, assuming Henderson as a throw-in, Walker’s rebound prowess is now lost – in a sense making the Mavs smaller, not bigger.

Terry eases the Mavs’ concerns at point guard – but not in the way ESPN’s Chad Ford suggests. Ford says the ballhandling abilities of Dirk Nowitzki and others “really lessens the need for the Mavs to have a true point in the backcourt.’’ That’s just nonsense, and demonstrates a lack of understanding of what Nellie’s offense does. A true point guard – like Kidd now, like Devin Harris someday soon -- is the centerpiece of this thing.
Anyway, if rookie Harris is a bit slow to develop, Terry is Dallas’ starting point guard today. If Harris is immediately everything the club believes he will be, Terry can play the other guard. And if another point-guard acquisition comes down, Terry is part of the bait that can make it happen.

Terry-as-a-2 makes for quite a crowd at the swingman spot, where Marquis Daniels, Michael Finley, Jerry Stackhouse and Josh Howard are among the prominent names already vying for minutes.

Therefore, the preliminary reports of this deal might need to be supplemented with some patience in anticipation of an additional deal. Dallas’ roster is bloated, and the organization promises to end up making 2-for-1’s and 3-for-1’s that cause the exit of some end-of-benchers.

Terry’s rep as a defender exceeds that of the departed Nash. (Kidd, of course, is also considered an excellent defender.) So if he stays, Terry fulfills the Mavs’ promise to improve the club’s defensive focus. At the same time, his offensive prowess fulfills our wish that the Mavs get away from what we call “two-platoon’’ basketball, where half the roster is adept at offense and half the roster adept at defense. Terry – like Daniels, Harris and only a few others – can play at both ends of the floor.

Terry is just 6-2, 180 – with a body not unlike Harris’ – but has shown himself statistically to be capable in all areas. In 2000-01, he averaged 19.7 a game. In 2002-03, he averaged 7.4 assists. Last year, he averaged 4-1 rebounds. Of course, you’d like to see him do all those things in one year, together. … and you’d like to see him do what he did against the Mavs in January of 2002, when the Arizona product (and 10th pick in the 1999 draft) hit a career high of 46 points.

Both contracts are attractive. Henderson (who played in just six games last year) in the last year of a contract that pays him just over $8.2 million. Terry has two years and $14 million left on the contract he got last year when the Hawks matched an offer sheet from Utah.

And we’ll say it one more time: The reports of this deal including mention of the adjoining death of Dallas’ pursuit of Jason Kidd are wrong. Dallas’ interest was real before. … Why would it be dead now? We know there are more trades to come. … and Jason Terry could be both the tip of the iceberg if it happens, and a nice chunk of consolation ice if it does not.

Hitman
08-03-2004, 10:55 AM
I don't love the trade, although admittedly I have not watched Atlanta as close as I could have over the last few years.

Jason Terry seems like he could be a Nellie type player, which is frightening.

In a bad way.

Who knows what happens between now and the regular season, but if we are going into premiere week with

Terry
Daniels
Booth
Nowitzki
Finley

as the starting lineup....then I am just not going to be that excited. Two years ago this team was on the verge of greatness....now they are on the verge of mediocrity.

Maybe I am wrong about Terry, but if he is a cross between Tony Delk and Nick Van Exel, which is how I remember....then....

I don't know. I just expected more.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 11:03 AM
Maybe I am crazy, but I really like this trade. Kidd or no Kidd, I still like this trade.

zanahale
08-03-2004, 11:04 AM
Judging by the career stats, Jason looks pretty good compared to Nick. and now that he is surrounded by other scoring threats, I would assume his assists will go up as well. Overall, I think Jason is exactly what we need. A veteran who can help out while Devin develops, can score, shoot the 3, and play defense.. obviously though, he will need to be re-programmed to pass first. Who knows, maybe we try to keep him for a 2-3 years after his contract expires.


http://www.zanacom.com/jason_terry.jpg

Simon2
08-03-2004, 11:04 AM
Don't want to get too excited because of all the Kidd rumors flying around. If the Mavs somehow get cap relief in a Kidd deal, Kidd will be a Mav. Terry might be out. On the surface, I like the deal. The Mavs get a dependable pg and they get rid of Walker. That's the best part. Get rid of Walker. The bad part is they added another player. I hope they come back with a trade for draft picks.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by: Hitman
I don't love the trade, although admittedly I have not watched Atlanta as close as I could have over the last few years.

Jason Terry seems like he could be a Nellie type player, which is frightening.

In a bad way.

Who knows what happens between now and the regular season, but if we are going into premiere week with

Terry
Daniels
Booth
Nowitzki
Finley

as the starting lineup....then I am just not going to be that excited. Two years ago this team was on the verge of greatness....now they are on the verge of mediocrity.

Maybe I am wrong about Terry, but if he is a cross between Tony Delk and Nick Van Exel, which is how I remember....then....

I don't know. I just expected more.


I second that. Not that all trades are over yet I somehow hope this trade is to help getting Kidd. We need a big name with big game, not average players, and last time I checked Atlanta sucked. I'm not sure if everyong loves this trade bcause of who we got or because Walker is gone. Yes this is a good trade yet I just hope it's just another step for a better trade.

chumdawg
08-03-2004, 11:13 AM
So if these guys are a part of something bigger, then we'll have to wait until October 1st or so. When does training camp start?

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 11:15 AM
I'm not sure if they're part of something bigger or not, just hoping, at this point I just want kidd but that seems very unlikely. Now with this trade I wonder what will be happening auagust 24th, any predictions???

sike
08-03-2004, 11:17 AM
first off, Terry is a NVE type player like V said, he has wonderful quickness and (just like NVE) will go the hole on anyone...if I am not mistaken he has a decent post game like NVE as well. Other similarities include a skill for making the eye popping pass that you did not expect, the buzzer beating game winning shot, as was mentioned before he is not a bad defender at all, but does like to go for steals(but often gets them at 1.5 a game) good ball handler but needs to cut down a bit on the turnovers (2.83 a game last year and 2.62 for career)...Definitely a Nellie guy(is that a good thing really?)
secondly, this is a good deal for the mavs, Terry is a guy who has two years left and by then Harris will be ready to take the team(one can only hope)...even if the Kidd deal is dead(or never was alive) this is at least an answer to the point guard quandary...
henderson is a guy I have always liked but won't be more than a good back up 4....just one more guy for Eddie to out hustle..but Henderson is a tough guy who wont back down...I like the fact that behind Dirk they now have two tough guys

thirdly, this may not be their last move, but if it is....i think the Nelsons can honestly say now that they "are ready to go to battle with these guys." This team, if properly focused around Dirk(if it gels) can compete with the best of the West...

fourthly, I have never seen a fan of a specific player so turn on that guy like MT has on Walker: MT said: "LMAO!! Serves Walker right for opening his big fat mouth. You want to Start, Antoine? You want more PT? More Shots? WELCOME TO CRAPLANTA! ROFLMAO!!"

all in all...so far so good....and like monkey said, I would not be surprised if there were something else around the corner....so dont get too attached.

madape
08-03-2004, 11:19 AM
No one's concerned that Terry will take away shots from Dirk? Anyone going to complain that "the last thing we need is more offense"?

Chicken Diavolo
08-03-2004, 11:21 AM
Can't be the last move. They have too many players. Anyone lacking? Lets go trade with those guys, it'll make everyone happy

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 11:23 AM
I guess I was mistaken that the first thing we needed to concentrate on is more defense this offseason, have we gotten there yet with any of the trades?

DevinHarriswillstart
08-03-2004, 11:25 AM
I might have to change my name i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif.,.....but he WILL start eventually! hahaha......No I like this trade. I think people are way too hard on terry. Look, if Utah wanted him last year (a team that plays very good team ball), then he can't be that bad. I dunno what anyone is worried about. With his contract and abilities, it's a perfect fit for Dallas. Who else would we have gotten? Bob Sura? Damon Jones? Rod STrickland? Please. None of those guys have Terry's abilities.

sike
08-03-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by: Hitman
I don't love the trade, although admittedly I have not watched Atlanta as close as I could have over the last few years.
Jason Terry seems like he could be a Nellie type player, which is frightening.
In a bad way.
Who knows what happens between now and the regular season, but if we are going into premiere week with
Terry
Daniels
Booth
Nowitzki
Finley

one way or another...this lineup will never see the light of day??? Hit, what are you thinking have booth at the 3???

for everyone saying they dont like this trade and admitting they have not seen Terry play....you may love the guy...anyway, just give it time, if they are not traded away, at worst they both are gone in two years(henderson has one year remaining and Terry has two) and at best(if they stay) Terry is a dynamic type who will fit well into the Nellie system...if they gel and if he can learn to take a few less shots and a throw a few more passes...

Dooby
08-03-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by: madape
No one's concerned that Terry will take away shots from Dirk? Anyone going to complain that "the last thing we need is more offense"?

Walker: Career 18.7 shots per game with .414 FG% and .326 3pt%

Terry: Career 13.7 shots per game. with .427 FG% and .367 3pt%

That means 5 extra shots per game for Dirk! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Evilmav2
08-03-2004, 11:30 AM
Well, evidently ESPN is now reporting that the deal is Delk/Walker for Terry/Henderson... So evidently our over-stocked roster may not be as much of a problem for us as the initial reports of this trade might have indicated.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 11:32 AM
Oooooo.....like that even better. If true.

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 11:33 AM
Good trade, although we're still without the big man Walker was supposed bring (now that the other shoe has dropped on the Boston trade).

The Mavs need to think roleplayers at this point. Stackhouse/Laettner for Antonio Davis is what I want to see. Maybe even Stackhouse/Laettner/Delk for Davis/J. Williams.

sike
08-03-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2
Well, evidently ESPN is now reporting that the deal is Delk/Walker for Terry/Henderson... So evidently our over-stocked roster may not be as much of a problem for us as the initial reports of this trade might have indicated.
now that is nice!!!
hey, WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS???? THE RADIO IS ALL COWBOYS??!!!

sike
08-03-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Good trade, although we're still without the big man Walker was supposed bring (now that the other shoe has dropped on the Boston trade).

The Mavs need to think roleplayers at this point. Stackhouse/Laettner for Antonio Davis is what I want to see. Maybe even Stackhouse/Laettner/Delk for Davis/J. Williams.

we think delk may be gone in this deal kg....either way, Davis might not be needed? Bradley, Booth, Eddie, Henderson, DJ...

LRB
08-03-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by: Evilmav2
Well, evidently ESPN is now reporting that the deal is Delk/Walker for Terry/Henderson... So evidently our over-stocked roster may not be as much of a problem for us as the initial reports of this trade might have indicated.

So if this deal goes down, is Terry/Henderson a good value for Raef/Giri ?

Finley4ever
08-03-2004, 11:44 AM
I guess this trade fits into Cuban's 1% of trades that happen that are rumored in the media, as a very similar trade was rumored earlier this offseason in this thread (http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=17779&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=)

V
08-03-2004, 11:45 AM
Mavs street cred just went up big time.

1. Terry was suspended for one game last year after elbowing Anthony Johnson. The two were tangled up before a jump ball & Terry got all fired up.

2. He plays with a headband

3. Terry's syntax is decidedly cooler that white boy Nash... "I'm not demanding no trade. At the same time, if it can help the situation . . . I'm tired of losing, man. I'm a competitor, man. And I know a lot of guys on this team want to win, but we don't have that winning vibe," Terry told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, January 2004.

Rhylan
08-03-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by: madape
No one's concerned that Terry will take away shots from Dirk? Anyone going to complain that "the last thing we need is more offense"?

I am, albeit slightly. It's not the same scenario as a Walker, who was an "established" Eastern All-Star when he came, and who just happens to play the same position as Dirk.

I do like the trade, though. Just need to get serious about trimming the roster.

ames7
08-03-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by: sikehey, WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS???? THE RADIO IS ALL COWBOYS??!!!
I KNOW! That's driving me crazy! I'm stuck in Austin, but no one has even mentioned this besides on the SportsCenter updates on ESPN radio. How is this not a big deal? Let's hear some opinions!

Evilmav2
08-03-2004, 11:48 AM
2. He plays with a headband

http://origin.nba.com/media/allstar2002/slick_watts_100x100.jpg
He wears that headband as a tribute to his high school coach, former NBA Supersonic badass Slick Watts...

madape
08-03-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Good trade, although we're still without the big man Walker was supposed bring (now that the other shoe has dropped on the Boston trade).

The Mavs need to think roleplayers at this point. Stackhouse/Laettner for Antonio Davis is what I want to see. Maybe even Stackhouse/Laettner/Delk for Davis/J. Williams.


We can do much, much better than that. Antonio Davis? Is he even marginally better than what we have? I don't think so. Not now. We'd be giving up a boatload of very tradable and very good talent for a big pile of poop with a maxed out deal... It's ridiculous. Even if Davis could help us, and he can't, this isn't the kind of trade we're looking for. Our next trade will be for an impact player, not a role player. As Donnie said last week, we are just loading up the bases for a grand slam. Your trade is a bunt at best, an embarassing whiff at worst. Stackhouse, Laettner, and Henderson give us the power to pull of something very, very special in the coming months. They represent a Barry Bonds type opportunity to launch one over the fense. Bonds don't bunt. This trade proposal is a bonefied stinker.

sike
08-03-2004, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by: Rhylan

Originally posted by: madape
No one's concerned that Terry will take away shots from Dirk? Anyone going to complain that "the last thing we need is more offense"?
I am, albeit slightly. It's not the same scenario as a Walker, who was an "established" Eastern All-Star when he came, and who just happens to play the same position as Dirk.
I do like the trade, though. Just need to get serious about trimming the roster.
I'm with Rhylan...I think much like NVE(not to overuse the NVE comparison) Terry will be ready to play a little team ball just for the chance to play on a top tier team.

MikeB
08-03-2004, 11:50 AM
Dallasnews.com is saying Walker/Delk for Terry/Henderson/1st round draft pick.
This I like even better.

MavKikiNYC
08-03-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Good trade, although we're still without the big man Walker was supposed bring (now that the other shoe has dropped on the Boston trade).

The Mavs need to think roleplayers at this point. Stackhouse/Laettner for Antonio Davis is what I want to see. Maybe even Stackhouse/Laettner/Delk for Davis/J. Williams.

we think delk may be gone in this deal kg....either way, Davis might not be needed? Bradley, Booth, Eddie, Henderson, DJ...

I feel marginally better about this deal if Delk is going, but it still seems like an improvised shuffling of contracts more than a well-thought-out personnel acquisition.

Henderson can't play. He showed decent promise once, but injuries have cut two of his last three seasons way short. He signed a big contract a few years back when Lenny was still with the Hawks, I believe, but has been a washout since. He's a contract move, not a personnel move.

EDIT: I'm warming to the deal if a #1 is included.

sike
08-03-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by: MikeB
Dallasnews.com is saying Walker/Delk for Terry/Henderson/1st round draft pick.
This I like even better.
whoa!!! this is sounding too good to be true. if they get a pick in the deal as well...another deal is coming for sure!

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by: V
Mavs street cred just went up big time.

1. Terry was suspended for one game last year after elbowing Anthony Johnson. The two were tangled up before a jump ball & Terry got all fired up.

2. He plays with a headband

3. Terry's syntax is decidedly cooler that white boy Nash... "I'm not demanding no trade. At the same time, if it can help the situation . . . I'm tired of losing, man. I'm a competitor, man. And I know a lot of guys on this team want to win, but we don't have that winning vibe," Terry told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, January 2004.

I hear ya. This team needs bangers, like Kenyon Martin & Brad Miller, etc. Regardless of roles we need players who will go out there and not take shi$ from anyone! This team needs that street ball attitude with that nba championship hunger. The trade brought a little of that to us, yet I don't think if has settles all of our problems, someone send Bradley to Shaq's school, get these trades done, and lets get started.

Chicago JK
08-03-2004, 11:54 AM
I saw this on Dallas news.com. We are finally getting picks instead of giving them away. The pick needs to be lottery protected for a long time, but I like getting future picks.

********
Mavericks: Dallas trades forward Antoine Walker, guard Tony Delk to Atlanta for guard Jason Terry, forward-center Alan Henderson and a first-round draft pick. Details to come

V
08-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Trivia for the conspiracy theorists... Who drafted Jason Terry?










Pete Babcock.

Evilmav2
08-03-2004, 11:55 AM
My goodness... It would be absolutely, ridiculously criminal if we were also able to extort a draft pick out of ATL in this deal (dare I dream a 1st rounder?)...

mavs413
08-03-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by: MikeB
Dallasnews.com is saying Walker/Delk for Terry/Henderson/1st round draft pick.
This I like even better.

If true, that is unbelievable!
That cant be right, ATL cant like Walker that much do they? We are theives!
I've always liked the way Jason plays, and has been one of my favorite non-mavs in the league even though he went to UofA and not ASU.

Simon2
08-03-2004, 11:58 AM
I like the added pick. It must be protected though. There's going to be some other deals for sure. This is another trade that the Mavs came up with that no one else saw.


Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: MikeB
Dallasnews.com is saying Walker/Delk for Terry/Henderson/1st round draft pick.
This I like even better.
whoa!!! this is sounding too good to be true. if they get a pick in the deal as well...another deal is coming for sure!

madape
08-03-2004, 11:58 AM
The trade looks much better with the #1 pick. We are clearly on the losing end of the deal from a talent perspective. The Henderson contract shouldn't be included, but I can understand the Hawks insisting on it being there due to their current offer to Dampier. We needed something back to account for 1) the talent disparity and 2) The financial impact of the last year of Henderson's deal. If that compensation is a future #1, I think we've done well.

If the trade goes down as initially reported, we've taken a step down in talent and worsened our cap flexibility in order to fill a temporary need. That's never a good thing.

LRB
08-03-2004, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: MikeB
Dallasnews.com is saying Walker/Delk for Terry/Henderson/1st round draft pick.
This I like even better.
whoa!!! this is sounding too good to be true. if they get a pick in the deal as well...another deal is coming for sure!

Damn, it'd possibly be the steal of the season if we get a 1st round pick and get rid of Delk and Walker.

uberfan
08-03-2004, 11:59 AM
I love this deal. I have to as I had proposed Walker for Terry before. I also suggested Delk ends up in Atlanta. What's not to like?

Sure looks like that Mavs are setting up for Kidd down the road if he proves healthy, but I think I would prefer to keep JT because of the age/salary differences.


JT is a definite upgrade over Delk at this point and can start at PG since he has been doing it already. Anyone see him start against Dallas and question his defense?

Henderson+Laettner still preserves the big expiring contract angle that Walker gave us. So now, instead of making a Walker for 1-2 or even 3 players we make a 2 for 1-2-3 deal later on. In the meantime Henderson and Laettner ARE upgrades at backup PF over Najera (assuming all 3 are healthy).

Also, any 2 of the 3 can be traded. Stackhouse is more likely to be moved now if we keep JT.

I expect we will see 2 from this group gone by Halloween: Stackhouse/Laettner/Najera/Henderson/TAW

Most likely a 2 for 1 on August 24 Stackhouse/Laettner but for who? KG may be correct that it is Antonio Davis.


I know Dallas doesn't seem interested in Dampier at all, but a S&T sending Henderson and a pick might work as a salary match if GS would take the pick.


One concern is that adding JT, if he remains, MIGHT make Cuban more willing to include Howard in a future deal. I hope the heck not. Keep this core of young guys together and keep building around Dirk.

Dirk surrounded by Harris, Daniels, Howard, Terry, Benga and Pavel still looks good 4 years from now.

SIde note: Atlanta could make another run at Dampier and may make him fill better about their team. Front line of Dampier, Walker, Harrington is not bad at all. Maybe GS would work out a trade with them sending Speedy for one of their young guys?

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 12:02 PM
does anyone know if this helps us any in getting Dampier or is it just still out of the question. Most will disagree with me yet I would like to someone else as center, meaning someone other than bradley starting

Jamisonite
08-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Hey guys...please let me know if this is correct...i just copy and pasted it from one of the articles

[b] Both Henderson and Christian Laettner come off the books at the end of the season. However, because of trade rules, the two can't be packaged together or with other players in a trade until the end of the year{/B]

sike
08-03-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by: madape
The trade looks much better with the #1 pick. We are clearly on the losing end of the deal from a talent perspective. The Henderson contract shouldn't be included, but I can understand the Hawks insisting on it being there due to their current offer to Dampier. We needed something back to account for 1) the talent disparity and 2) The financial impact of the last year of Henderson's deal. If that compensation is a future #1, I think we've done well.

If the trade goes down as initially reported, we've taken a step down in talent in order to fill a need. That's never a good thing.
wrong-O monkey, this deal is a talent upgrade from what they had...Delk was getting no PT (much like Henderson maybe) and Walker was a slow bullet to the brain of this team ever time he stepped on the floor. Terry at least will fill a need at point..he is a player and a player that will help instead of drag the team down. Of course if they dont gel it all sucks! Even without the pick, I say this is a doable deal.

madape
08-03-2004, 12:06 PM
It helps Atlanta get Dampier. I'm sure they wouldn't have done the deal if we didn't assure them that we weren't even remotely interested in Damp (and we're not)

V
08-03-2004, 12:07 PM
Is there a quicker backcourt in the league than Harris/Terry/Daniels?

mavs413
08-03-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by: Jamisonite
Hey guys...please let me know if this is correct...i just copy and pasted it from one of the articles

Both Henderson and Christian Laettner come off the books at the end of the season. However, because of trade rules, the two can't be packaged together or with other players in a trade until the end of the year

end of the year meaning december, not the season.

sike
08-03-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by: V
Is there a quicker backcourt in the league than Harris/Terry/Daniels?
is there a backcourt in league that needs to learn to pass as much as this backcourt i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

V
08-03-2004, 12:10 PM
On the topic of the first round pick ... if it's included we'll learn soon enough... but it may be Philly's 2007 pick the Hawks rec'd in the Big Dog deal.

madape
08-03-2004, 12:12 PM
If the trade goes down as initially reported, we've taken a step down in talent in order to fill a need. That's never a good thing.
wrong-O monkey, this deal is a talent upgrade from what they had...Delk was getting no PT (much like Henderson maybe) and Walker was a slow bullet to the brain of this team ever time he stepped on the floor. Terry at least will fill a need at point..he is a player and a player that will help instead of drag the team down. Of course if they dont gel it all sucks! Even without the pick, I say this is a doable deal.[/quote]

Please. Walker was a bad fit here, but you can't sit there and tell me that he's a less talented player than Jason Terry. I like Jason Terry, but Terry has never been to an all-star game. He's never taken his team to the conference finals. Heck, he's never even been to the PLAYOFFS. We needed a starting point guard more than we needed a backup power forward, but that doesn't change the fact that our former backup power forward was a much better player than our incoming point guard. And isn't it a rule that you never trade big for small? Well we just traded an all-star level forward for a slightly below all-star level guard... and we did so while worsening our cap situation (albeit only slightly). We sure as hell had the right to demand a pick.

Chiwas
08-03-2004, 12:16 PM
Walker and Delk going in the same move is the best possible payback for fans after the terrible bad decisions of starting Delk and giving Walker the leadership of the offense last season. Although Nellie reacted, the issue affected the rest of the season. Thanks, Mark.

In relation to Terry and Henderson........I like the first-round pick.

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 12:23 PM
Jamisonite - If this deal goes down tomorrow as reported, the earliest that Laettner and Henderson could be packaged is October 4. "End of the year" is incorrect.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 12:23 PM
I'll agree it was a good move, hell any move getting Walker out of here is great. We did get a pg, yet does this mean Kidd is out of the question? And what number will Henderson take on now that 44 is already being used, lol.

u2sarajevo
08-03-2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by: vinnieponte
I'll agree it was a good move, hell any move getting Walker out of here is great. We did get a pg, yet does this mean Kidd is out of the question? And what number will Henderson take on now that 44 is already being used, lol.I applaud this trade. Waiting on a deal for Kidd that might not even happen would have been not smart. Hopefully Henderson will be be able to use 44 on another team and not ours.

BewareofBob
08-03-2004, 12:28 PM
In response to all those who had argued for a trade for Van Ex, doesn't Terry look to be about the same but with much greater health. Looking at his stats since being in the league, it appears Terry has been the picture of health. I think that Cuban has proven he will only trade for players without a history of injury. I think this is incredibly wise, and should be something we keep in mind when considering trade possibilities. Cuban has proven himself to be conservative in terms of gambling away the future on someone poor health.

MikeB
08-03-2004, 12:29 PM
Mavs to deal Walker to Hawks

12:20 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 3, 2004


By DAVID MOORE / The Dallas Morning News



Antoine Walker’s brief career with the Mavericks is about to come to an end.

Sources said that Dallas and Atlanta have agreed to a deal that would send Walker and guard Tony Delk to the Hawks for point guard Jason Terry, forward Alan Henderson and a first-round pick. The pick, which once belonged to Philadelphia, is lottery protected and will become available to Dallas at some point over the next three years.

Officials with both clubs were in the process of contacting the players involved. The league office is closed Tuesday, meaning the trade can’t be completed until the office opens Wednesday and the deal can be reported.

Walker was a talented, yet ill-fitting piece to the Mavericks' puzzle this past season. Like Dirk Nowitzki, Michael Finley and Steve Nash, who has since left in free agency, he needed the ball in his hands to be successful. That proved to be too many players to accommodate when all were on the court at the same time.

Walker spent the majority of the season at point forward, a concept coach Don Nelson implemented during his days in Milwaukee more than 20 years ago. Nelson actually praised Walker as the most talented point forward he had coached roughly midway through the season.

But putting the ball in Walker’s hands took away from what Nowitzki and Nash could accomplish. The offense swung back in their direction late in the season and Walker wound up at center. It was clear he didn’t fit into the Mavericks plans for 2004-05.

Terry does. He’s the sort of scoring point guard that has flourished in Nelson’s system. Terry averaged 16.8 points, 5.4 assists and 4.1 rebounds for the Hawks last season.

Nelson has lobbied for a veteran point guard so the club doesn’t have to throw first-round pick Devin Harris into the fire as a rookie. Terry, who has outstanding quickness and does a good job of running the pick-and-roll, fits the bill.

It remains to be seen what, if anything, Henderson can contribute. He played only six games last season before being sidelined with a bad knee. The power forward has been plagued by injuries throughout his career, managing to stay healthy for a full season just twice in his nine years in the league.

What makes Henderson attractive is that he’s in the final year of his contract. If he can’t play, 80 percent of his $8.2 million contract is covered by insurance.

sike
08-03-2004, 12:31 PM
Please. Walker was a bad fit here, but you can't sit there and tell me that he's a less talented player than Jason Terry.

terry is a wonderfully atheletic player who is a far better shooter and passer than Walker..Walker is a good passer and decent rebounder and average defender at best for a big..but everything that is impressive about him stems directly from the fact that he is six' nine" and not because he is a great overall player. to say that it is a talent downgrade is wrong...but it may be unfair to say it is an upgrade as well....but it is certainly a better fit of talent
I like Jason Terry, but Terry has never been to an all-star game. He's never taken his team to the conference finals. Heck, he's never even been to the PLAYOFFS. We needed a starting point guard more than we needed a backup power forward, but that doesn't change the fact that our former backup power forward was a much better player than our incoming point guard.

prove it. team success is not the qualifier of such a statement as "much better player" it does however prove that Walker has been on better teams.

And isn't it a rule that you never trade big for small?

with every rule their is an exception...this is that exception...you would not have been saying this if walker was used to get Kidd would you?
Well we just traded an all-star level forward for a slightly below all-star level guard... and we did so while worsening our cap situation (albeit only slightly).

we shall see if Walker is ever an all star again....as for Terry, we shall see
We sure as hell had the right to demand a pick.
I totally agree that it was a good move to "demand" the pick....but that this would have been a lopsided deal without the pick I disagree

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Originally posted by: vinnieponte
I'll agree it was a good move, hell any move getting Walker out of here is great. We did get a pg, yet does this mean Kidd is out of the question? And what number will Henderson take on now that 44 is already being used, lol.I applaud this trade. Waiting on a deal for Kidd that might not even happen would have been not smart. Hopefully Henderson will be be able to use 44 on another team and not ours.



I agree I don't want Henderson here either, if he was ever going to break out or improve it would of been done by now

LRB
08-03-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by: vinnieponte

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Originally posted by: vinnieponte
I'll agree it was a good move, hell any move getting Walker out of here is great. We did get a pg, yet does this mean Kidd is out of the question? And what number will Henderson take on now that 44 is already being used, lol.I applaud this trade. Waiting on a deal for Kidd that might not even happen would have been not smart. Hopefully Henderson will be be able to use 44 on another team and not ours.



I agree I don't want Henderson here either, if he was ever going to break out or improve it would of been done by now


Henderson is an expiring contract that can occasionally wear an uniform. All he's good for for the Mavs is trade bait.

Jamisonite
08-03-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by: MikeB


What makes Henderson attractive is that he’s in the final year of his contract. If he can’t play, 80 percent of his $8.2 million contract is covered by insurance.

Sounds a lot like TAW

Some Guy
08-03-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Does anyone have the sense that the Mavs are trading for yet another player who torched them ($teve Na$h, to be preci$e), but won't perform at that level in a team game?

Same reason they traded for (and overpaid) Raef

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 12:40 PM
What makes Henderson attractive is that he’s in the final year of his contract. If he can’t play, 80 percent of his $8.2 million contract is covered by insurance

TAW, Part II

MavKikiNYC
08-03-2004, 12:40 PM
Re the viability of a possible trade for Kidd--

I wonder if Terry (coupled with Laettner or Stackhouse, and the newly-acquired #1) isn't a more attractive package than Walker for a deal with NJ (from NJ's perspective).

I'm still thinking that NJ has to put a team on the floor during their tear-down/re-build, and Terry with Stackhouse/Laettner, a #1 and young prospect (read: Pavel or J-HO) at least gives them a prodcut to seel in the short-term.

All hope is not lost for Kidd's return to Dallas. ... Yet.

MavKikiNYC
08-03-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

What makes Henderson attractive is that he’s in the final year of his contract. If he can’t play, 80 percent of his $8.2 million contract is covered by insurance

TAW, Part II

Exactly. I'm seeing TAW and AH taking up two of the three IR spots already. Unless one of them can be moved on.

Also, at some point you have to wonder why AJ doesn't just retire. Can't they pay him the $1M or whatever to be a very hand-on coach, instead of taking up a roster spot?

V
08-03-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by: V
On the topic of the first round pick ... if it's included we'll learn soon enough... but it may be Philly's 2007 pick the Hawks rec'd in the Big Dog deal.

Ha! Scooped the national media... AGAIN.

Who wants those lotto numbers?

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Re the viability of a possible trade for Kidd--

I wonder if Terry (coupled with Laettner or Stackhouse, and the newly-acquired #1) isn't a more attractive package than Walker for a deal with NJ (from NJ's perspective).

I'm still thinking that NJ has to put a team on the floor during their tear-down/re-build, and Terry with Stackhouse/Laettner, a #1 and young prospect (read: Pavel or J-HO) at least gives them a prodcut to seel in the short-term.

All hope is not lost for Kidd's return to Dallas. ... Yet.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Kidd. And secondly I'll keep them crossed for Dampier, wink wink. But with this trade, what's to coem for august 24th?

sike
08-03-2004, 12:46 PM
they are talking about this trade on BaD radio right now.....Bob likes Terry.....sooooo, is that the kiss of death? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

doggnutz
08-03-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by: MikeB
Dallasnews.com is saying Walker/Delk for Terry/Henderson/1st round draft pick.
This I like even better.

Yeah I'm hearing a first round conditional draft pick that can be used over 3 years
or something like that.

Yeah, that's what it was Chicago a lottery pick.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 12:55 PM
Pretty damn happy about this one. V, I was going to post in your thread that in my mind Terry was pretty clearly the next best available option at point guard after Kidd (very nice timing, btw). Not only because he's quite a talented player, but because his contract is so darn reasonable. I guess we'll see what happens down the road with other trades, but the team Mark and Donnie are putting together is looking like it's going to be very competitive.

BTW, I think Stack's gone. Anybody know would we have to wait past Aug. 24th to package that #1 with Stack/L8?

MavsFanFinley
08-03-2004, 01:01 PM
It's so hard to comment on these trades this summer. No telling if the players are staying or going for something bigger.

Put me in the group that hopes Terry stays in Dallas and runs the point.

It made me laugh to see the Mavs squeezed a first round pick out of the deal too. Crazy.

sike
08-03-2004, 01:02 PM
art garcia loves this deal but says the mavs are still very interested in Kidd....I dont read the star telegram much is Garcia a decent writer?

doggnutz
08-03-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by: vinnieponte

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Re the viability of a possible trade for Kidd--

I wonder if Terry (coupled with Laettner or Stackhouse, and the newly-acquired #1) isn't a more attractive package than Walker for a deal with NJ (from NJ's perspective).

I'm still thinking that NJ has to put a team on the floor during their tear-down/re-build, and Terry with Stackhouse/Laettner, a #1 and young prospect (read: Pavel or J-HO) at least gives them a prodcut to seel in the short-term.

All hope is not lost for Kidd's return to Dallas. ... Yet.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Kidd. And secondly I'll keep them crossed for Dampier, wink wink. But with this trade, what's to coem for august 24th?

I think Cube is a lil less desperate right now in getting Terry. In order for the Mavs to get Kidd, NJ will have to take some contracts back. Not sure this will happen. The deal will have to be sweet for Cubes to pull the trigger on a NJ trade.

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 01:02 PM
Anybody know would we have to wait past Aug. 24th to package that #1 with Stack/L8?

I don't see anything in the FAQ or the rules that puts a 60 day waiting period on packaging picks like the waiting period that applies to players. I emailed Cuban to verify whether this is the case or not.

uberfan
08-03-2004, 01:05 PM
Don't have to wait to send the pick with either one of them, only if they go together.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 01:05 PM
Thanks, KG.

MightyToine
08-03-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by: sike
[quote]
terry is a wonderfully atheletic player who is a far better shooter and passer than Walker..Walker is a good passer and decent rebounder and average defender at best for a big..

First off, comparing Terry and Walker are like apples and oranges. Terry is a combo PG/SG; Walker is a PF(who is versatile to play other positions on the floor), period. Yes, Terry is a better PASSER considering that he did function as the Hawks PG most of the time while in Atlanta. But it's the fact that Walker is a very good passer AT THE PF POSITION that makes him somewhat special. And Walker is a GOOD rebounder, thank you very much(Almost 9 rpg for his Career).


but everything that is impressive about him stems directly from the fact that he is six' nine" and not because he is a great overall player.

So I guess Magic Johnson wasn't a great overall player then since he was 6'9(or taller?) himself. Thank you.

Not saying that Walker is a great overall player but don't go using this asinine 6'9-argument 'cause it has holes in it.



prove it. team success is not the qualifier of such a statement as "much better player" it does however prove that Walker has been on better teams.

Boston....I would hardly consider it a "better team". lol.



we shall see if Walker is ever an all star again....as for Terry, we shall see

With K-Mart Leaving for the Nuggets, I'd say Walker's Allstar-chances just increased ten-fold. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 01:11 PM
I am REALLY happy to see that this deal includes Delk and that we get back a No. 1.

The Mavs now have a choice. They can pursue one more big name guy (e.g., Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd) using Stackhouse, Howard, the No. 1 pick, and the Expiring Veterans (aka Laettner and Henderson) as ammunition, or they can look for a deal for a veteran banger to compliment the shotblocking in the pivot.

I kind of hope they opt for the latter, because with Terry's acquisition the Mavs have a lot of the scoring and creativity that Carter or someone else would have provided.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I am REALLY happy to see that this deal includes Delk and that we get back a No. 1.

The Mavs now have a choice. They can pursue one more big name guy (e.g., Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd) using Stackhouse, Howard, the No. 1 pick, and the Expiring Veterans (aka Laettner and Henderson) as ammunition, or they can look for a deal for a veteran banger to compliment the shotblocking in the pivot.

I kind of hope they opt for the latter, because with Terry's acquisition the Mavs have a lot of the scoring and creativity that Carter or someone else would have provided.

A banger is right and we need that attitude this year. terry will bring somewhat of that street attitude and Carteris starting to look like a better fit in my eyes, yet I'd rather see Kidd suit up here. And you're right, get henderson outta here.

steponhens
08-03-2004, 01:16 PM
This is a great deal for the Mav's. Not only do they get rid of the cancer that is Walker, but they also make a deal with the Atlanta Hawks, who seem like they have never made a good trade ever.

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 01:19 PM
I will say this, though. I'd gladly give up Stackhouse, Laettner, Howard, and the newly acquired No. 1....

for Paul Pierce.

DevinHarriswillstart
08-03-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by: madape


If the trade goes down as initially reported, we've taken a step down in talent in order to fill a need. That's never a good thing.
wrong-O monkey, this deal is a talent upgrade from what they had...Delk was getting no PT (much like Henderson maybe) and Walker was a slow bullet to the brain of this team ever time he stepped on the floor. Terry at least will fill a need at point..he is a player and a player that will help instead of drag the team down. Of course if they dont gel it all sucks! Even without the pick, I say this is a doable deal.

Please. Walker was a bad fit here, but you can't sit there and tell me that he's a less talented player than Jason Terry. I like Jason Terry, but Terry has never been to an all-star game. He's never taken his team to the conference finals. Heck, he's never even been to the PLAYOFFS. We needed a starting point guard more than we needed a backup power forward, but that doesn't change the fact that our former backup power forward was a much better player than our incoming point guard. And isn't it a rule that you never trade big for small? Well we just traded an all-star level forward for a slightly below all-star level guard... and we did so while worsening our cap situation (albeit only slightly). We sure as hell had the right to demand a pick.[/quote]

Ok, so with that said, then you were completely against going for Jason Kidd right? Antoine Walker may have been 6'9, but he always played small anyways. He chose to be a shooting guard outside, then post up players down low. We lose rebounding, which you know what? We won 60 games not being a great rebounding team, but only won 52 being the second best in the NBA. Rebounding does not equal defense, as we have learned. Terry is a good defender, Daniels is a good defender, Finley is not bad at defense, Dirk needs to improve (although he did have hi sbest defensive statistics last year), and the killer B's are all really good shot blockers. At least we are committing ourselves to defense, as 4 of the 5 positions are pretty good in that area.

uberfan
08-03-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I am REALLY happy to see that this deal includes Delk and that we get back a No. 1.

The Mavs now have a choice. They can pursue one more big name guy (e.g., Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd) using Stackhouse, Howard, the No. 1 pick, and the Expiring Veterans (aka Laettner and Henderson) as ammunition, or they can look for a deal for a veteran banger to compliment the shotblocking in the pivot.

I kind of hope they opt for the latter, because with Terry's acquisition the Mavs have a lot of the scoring and creativity that Carter or someone else would have provided.

Look for a banger that is signed to a long term contract and is either buried behind someone else or is holding back a younger cheaper player. That player needs to make a lot of money so we can trade 2 for 1, so Kurt Thomas does not fit the definition.

Oh, you already did that. Antonio Davis.

Some Guy
08-03-2004, 01:19 PM
What does everyone think of Eddie Curry? I know he has been a disappointment, but he has shown flashes of good play. I think he could be a good fit, and I keep seeing that the Bulls are in discussions with different people about him. He is one of the few guys out there with potential that might be available.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by: sike
they are talking about this trade on BaD radio right now.....Bob likes Terry.....sooooo, is that the kiss of death? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

They just played a cut of Bob from teh day Walker was traded to Dallas talking about how much he hated Walker: ballhog, can't jump, doughy.

We get a first?!?! This trade keeps getting better. Maybe if I look away long enough, we'll include TAW.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I will say this, though. I'd gladly give up Stackhouse, Laettner, Howard, and the newly acquired No. 1....

for Paul Pierce.

This is the first I've heard of Pierce, he has a few years left right? And secondly he hasn't demanded nor would boston trade him for any of our players, right?

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by: vinnieponte

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I will say this, though. I'd gladly give up Stackhouse, Laettner, Howard, and the newly acquired No. 1....

for Paul Pierce.

This is the first I've heard of Pierce, he has a few years left right? And secondly he hasn't demanded nor would boston trade him for any of our players, right?

There's been some talk that Boston might consider trading Pierce. I don't know if even the package I just mentioned would be good enough...but Dallas should be offering it ASAP.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by: Some Guy
What does everyone think of Eddie Curry? I know he has been a disappointment, but he has shown flashes of good play. I think he could be a good fit, and I keep seeing that the Bulls are in discussions with different people about him. He is one of the few guys out there with potential that might be available.


No-way, Curry sucks, and is un-proven to do anything except gain weight. I'd say no

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 01:28 PM
Curry is bad news. No use for him.

DevinHarriswillstart
08-03-2004, 01:29 PM
Memphis is in the Curry talks, in ESPN insider, it said they were serious about trying to get him.

Kleany
08-03-2004, 01:29 PM
wow, i rarely post here. but after this trade, i just had 2. i believe Terry would be a great fit with the mavs. i love him as a player. if u look at ATL season record last season, they beat some very good teams but lost to sucky ones. Terry is very competitive when they played against the better teams in the nba. heck, he was part of the team that took Rockets to 3 Overtimes. Heck, he was part of the team that beat the lakers. Another thing about him is Hes CLUTCH! he isnt scared to take the game winning shot. as for assist, he once average about 8 per game. ATL had no other scorers except himself and jackson. With the mavs, i expect the assist to go up. Terry is extremely fast and wants to win! meaning he wont give up and give his all to win. doing whatever he has to do to win, meaning pass more.

I like terry being a mav. heck, if we cant get J Kidd i wouldnt be too upset. Terry is younger, healthier and cheaper, and extremely talented.

we get a first round pick 2. i like this deal.

Terry
Stackhouse or Daniels
Finley
Dirk
Booth

i feel as thats a very strong team with a good bench.

Stressboy
08-03-2004, 01:30 PM
It is amazing how much hate I have read on 3 different boards about this trade. I mean Walker sucked, and destroyed our chemistry, getting a good young player is more than most hoped. Hell, I've seen a lot of people throw penny's name around(I might have mentioned him myself). The trade looks good to me as only McGinnis might possibly have been a better fit and more of a true PG. I think with Terry and Harris, we have a 1/2 punch that will be greater than Nash by himself. So from last years perspective, I think we have improved our PG spot, but are a long way from where we were with Nash/NVE. The 2/3 is improved from years past. The 4 is already 3rd best in the league. Our 5 is better than last year, but we have to have a bigger player that can bang.

So here we sit, with 2 months to go, needing only a big banger type to play some center with hopes of landing some top talent.

I like it, but the offseason is still a C so far.

Stressboy

sike
08-03-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I am REALLY happy to see that this deal includes Delk and that we get back a No. 1.
The Mavs now have a choice. They can pursue one more big name guy (e.g., Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd) using Stackhouse, Howard, the No. 1 pick, and the Expiring Veterans (aka Laettner and Henderson) as ammunition, or they can look for a deal for a veteran banger to compliment the shotblocking in the pivot.
I kind of hope they opt for the latter, because with Terry's acquisition the Mavs have a lot of the scoring and creativity that Carter or someone else would have provided.
I'd take the the banger over the addition of another scorer as well. last year they learned the lesson about having too many scorers, I hope.

what would acquiring Pierce really do to bring this team closer to a ring?

Some Guy
08-03-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Curry is bad news. No use for him.

Then why would Memphis want him?

sike
08-03-2004, 01:34 PM
I like it, but the offseason is still a C so far. Stressboy
I'd say the Jamison trade that brought in Harris/Stack/L8 and the acquisition of Terry is enough for a grade of B in my book....C is average, I think they have been better than average.

Kleany
08-03-2004, 01:35 PM
Terry is fearless, he will drive it to the hoop on anyone. thats sounds like a banger to me.

hope we dont trade howard.

cdeleon
08-03-2004, 01:35 PM
Isn't there a 24 hour window where newly acquired players can be traded in a package before the 60 days begins? Could this be the deal we offer for Kidd? The trade will be official tomorrow so Dallas has until Thursday before the 60 days start. I believe I read this when the Stack/ L8 trade came down. Anyone have any input on this?

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 01:36 PM
Some Guy - Because he does have potential, and Chicago now wants to trade him. You have to ask yourself, though, why does Chicago want to trade him? It's because he's Oliver Miller, Part II. He committed himself to getting in shape in the offseason, and reports this week were that he's up to 320 lbs. Some commitment. Of course, he'll probably manage to play hard this season, anyway, because according to what I read he realizes he's in a contract year.

No thanks.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by: Stressboy
It is amazing how much hate I have read on 3 different boards about this trade. I mean Walker sucked, and destroyed our chemistry, getting a good young player is more than most hoped. Hell, I've seen a lot of people throw penny's name around(I might have mentioned him myself). The trade looks good to me as only McGinnis might possibly have been a better fit and more of a true PG. I think with Terry and Harris, we have a 1/2 punch that will be greater than Nash by himself. So from last years perspective, I think we have improved our PG spot, but are a long way from where we were with Nash/NVE. The 2/3 is improved from years past. The 4 is already 3rd best in the league. Our 5 is better than last year, but we have to have a bigger player that can bang.

So here we sit, with 2 months to go, needing only a big banger type to play some center with hopes of landing some top talent.

I like it, but the offseason is still a C so far.

Stressboy

I agree with you on needing a banger for a Center position, yet we would have to do something about the overflow of centers we currently have and secondly I would Say Kidd would've been an better option although more salary, more worrie would come with it, yet It would've been a better deal for us.

bgantz
08-03-2004, 01:43 PM
i would've preferred kurt thomas over terry....but it's not a bad trade. i guess we might end up still getting thomas anyway

V
08-03-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by: vinnieponte

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I will say this, though. I'd gladly give up Stackhouse, Laettner, Howard, and the newly acquired No. 1....

for Paul Pierce.

This is the first I've heard of Pierce, he has a few years left right? And secondly he hasn't demanded nor would boston trade him for any of our players, right?

From the Christmas in August thread...

Paul Pierce - Ainge said he won't trade Pierce... but he also said no one is untradeable. That means Pierce may be gone folks. He is maxed out for four more years starting at $12.5 million but he's only 26 years old & at one time he was considered Dirk's equal or better. Given Boston's situation (a whopping five players with one or fewer years of experience) expect offers to come for Pierce in bunches. With Ricky Davis, Jiri Welsch and draft-pick Tony Allen in the backcourt, perhaps Ainge feels he can move Pierce if someone is willing to give up a big in return. After a terrible year trying to do everything does Cuban bite on Pierce while his value is low ... or is Tony Cubes comitted to Josh Howard at the three?

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 01:54 PM
WTH? Why did we bring in another guard to this team? If this is the best we can do with an expiring contract than these contracts are useless. I'd rather have Harris start at point over Terry at this point.

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by: sike

I like it, but the offseason is still a C so far. Stressboy
I'd say the Jamison trade that brought in Harris/Stack/L8 and the acquisition of Terry is enough for a grade of B in my book....C is average, I think they have been better than average.

This offseason has been average and if it wasn't for the addition of Booth I would've gave them a D+ for the offseason. Only reason they don't get an F is because they brought a future pg in here for us. As of right now I give them a C also. I think a good offseason is when you make your team better. That doesn't mean adding more or better players than you had the previous season that means improving your team. We don't even have a starting center for goodness sakes. I don't like the way this offseason is turning around at all. It's far from over but I have a strong feeling it is. I don't see the Mavs trading Stack or Laettner this season.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 02:05 PM
I'd say B, all things considered. I don't think the Mavs have taken any kind of step back in terms of the quality of team they'll be able to field, which by itself would warrant a C, but they've gotten younger and have maintained all kinds of flexibility for future moves. That's enough to push it to a B in my book.

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 02:17 PM
http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/antoine_walker.jpg
"But I wanted to be a Knick!"

LRB
08-03-2004, 02:29 PM
Getting rid of Walker and getting value that fits our needs is enough alone for me to give the offseason a B. I just don't think that anything else merits raising it to above a B.

As for a Banger, I wonder if maybe we could work a deal for Dale Davis. Say maybe L8 and Najera + the #1 pick we're getting.

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
Getting rid of Walker and getting value that fits our needs is enough alone for me to give the offseason a B. I just don't think that anything else merits raising it to above a B.

As for a Banger, I wonder if maybe we could work a deal for Dale Davis. Say maybe L8 and Najera + the #1 pick we're getting.

Damn why so much for Dale? I'd imagine you could get him for Laettner alone.

Bayliss
08-03-2004, 02:39 PM
Dude, where's my report card?

The Mavs get a frickin' A.

The Mavs got rid of the biggest cancer in the world. For a decent young point guard. They got rid of a disgruntled one dimensional power forward for a servicable shotblocking center. They got rid of a tweener power forwqard for the best point guard in the draft. They have added two young big man prospects.

The Mavs went from a team with one legimiate center and 5(!) power forwards to a team with 4-5 centers and 2 power forwards. This team is a lot more balanced than last year. And that was the number one priority. Hence the center/point guard speak. The Mavs have got the point guard, and have gotten a decent center rotation.

FolterKammer84
08-03-2004, 02:41 PM
dunno if it has been mentioned before (hadnt got the time to read all the posts i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif) but i see alot of problems with aquiring a 26 year old pg - really good pg who will want much pt - and having a 20 something year old lottery rookie pg on the team

MikeB
08-03-2004, 02:41 PM
Mullin in GS really likes Dale Davis...REALLY likes him...so how about instead we go for the other Old school Davis Brother from Indy?
Antonio anyone?

LRB
08-03-2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: LRB
Getting rid of Walker and getting value that fits our needs is enough alone for me to give the offseason a B. I just don't think that anything else merits raising it to above a B.

As for a Banger, I wonder if maybe we could work a deal for Dale Davis. Say maybe L8 and Najera + the #1 pick we're getting.

Damn why so much for Dale? I'd imagine you could get him for Laettner alone.

We need to dump roster spots so that's why I included Najera and the #1 pick was incentive for them to take Najera.

jopace
08-03-2004, 02:50 PM
Here is my first post. Hello everyone. I promise I won't start another thread.

I like the trade to get Jason Terry, he should flourish in Nellie's system. He is a pick and roll player also, as was reported.

One thing that troubles me about everyone's potential lineups. They all have Finley or Howard at the SF spot. They are too small to be an everyday SF in this league. Finley's stats are worse when he has to play SF. I think the Mavs need a banging Center and a bigger starting SF. Let Finley stay in the back court. I know this floods the BC, but if Stackhouse and Howard could be used in a trade to help get a banging Center or a bigger starting SF, then Terry/Harris and Finley/Daniels will be a great back court.

The Small Forwards in this league are bigger now, KG, SAR, Shawn Marion, Peja, Juwaan Howard, Gasol, Carmello Anthony, Rashard Lewis and Kirilenko. All of these guys are 6'8" or taller and in the west. Finley is 6'7" with no post up or driving game, and no defense or rebounding.

Surley there has to be more trades coming. Right now the Mavs are small, with no front court defense, and no bangers or rebounders. They have a strong BC, but the FC is very weak, besides Dirk.

LRB
08-03-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by: jopace
Here is my first post. Hello everyone. I promise I won't start another thread.

I like the trade to get Jason Terry, he should flourish in Nellie's system. He is a pick and roll player also, as was reported.

One thing that troubles me about everyone's potential lineups. They all have Finley or Howard at the SF spot. They are too small to be an everyday SF in this league. Finley's stats are worse when he has to play SF. I think the Mavs need a banging Center and a bigger starting SF. Let Finley stay in the back court. I know this floods the BC, but if Stackhouse and Howard could be used in a trade to help get a banging Center or a bigger starting SF, then Terry/Harris and Finley/Daniels will be a great back court.

The Small Forwards in this league are bigger now, KG, SAR, Shawn Marion, Peja, Juwaan Howard, Gasol, Carmello Anthony, Rashard Lewis and Kirilenko. All of these guys are 6'8" or taller and in the west. Finley is 6'7" with no post up or driving game, and no defense or rebounding.

Surley there has to be more trades coming. Right now the Mavs are small, with no front court defense, and no bangers or rebounders. They have a strong BC, but the FC is very weak, besides Dirk.

KG, SAR, Juwaan Howard, Gasol are all PF's not SF's. Marion is the same height as Fin and Howard. Fin is not a good fit at SF, but JHo is an excellent SF. His outstanding armlength makes him much longer than his height would suggest and he's a fantastic rebounder at the 3.

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: LRB
Getting rid of Walker and getting value that fits our needs is enough alone for me to give the offseason a B. I just don't think that anything else merits raising it to above a B.

As for a Banger, I wonder if maybe we could work a deal for Dale Davis. Say maybe L8 and Najera + the #1 pick we're getting.

Damn why so much for Dale? I'd imagine you could get him for Laettner alone.

We need to dump roster spots so that's why I included Najera and the #1 pick was incentive for them to take Najera.


I'd imagine a package of Alan Henderson and Laettner in a deal for a player could be getting rid of some players. I just don't get the idea of giving not only cap space for an aging Dale Davis who at tops has about 3 years left for our pick we got from the Hawks which will more than likely be a lottery pick the way that team is shaping out.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 03:06 PM
That pick we got from Philly through Atlanta is lottery protected.

MikeB
08-03-2004, 03:06 PM
The pick is Philly's and it is lottery protected.

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by: FolterKammer84
dunno if it has been mentioned before (hadnt got the time to read all the posts i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif) but i see alot of problems with aquiring a 26 year old pg - really good pg who will want much pt - and having a 20 something year old lottery rookie pg on the team

That's what I don't understand. If we were gonna get Terry this whole time we should've just kept Jamison and let Harris go to some other team in the draft. I don't get what the Mavs are doing right now. I thought with the 14 mill contract I thought we would get a stud to play in the paint but instead we just got another player to run and gun with.

Stressboy
08-03-2004, 03:10 PM
Guy's slow down with the A and B grades. Somewhere we talked about grading this offseason and I had it all layed out, but getting Nash and Danials signed was a full grade difference and I'm sorry, but we only got half of that done so we are already at B (getting kidd would up the grade a letter and a half). Second the rest of the grade was based on getting a decent center. We said Ostertag was worst case, but obviously not. So here we sit having lost our second best player and without an experienced center with any meat on his bones so I would say we are at C by having adequately replaced Nash and getting a decent backup center in Booth. The good thing is that getting a decent banger type center pushes this to a B. If we get a healthy Kidd before the trade deadline, it is an A+ with only the Shaq Dream being a better grade. If we get a Carter type player and don't have to give up our new PG tandem, then we get a solid A even without another center. Carter and the banger center and we get another A+. Still lots of trading to be done.

stressboy

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 03:10 PM
I take back evething I said about the pick. If we are getting the 6ers pick and it's lottery protected than I really hate this deal.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by: Bayliss
Dude, where's my report card?

The Mavs get a frickin' A.

The Mavs got rid of the biggest cancer in the world. For a decent young point guard. They got rid of a disgruntled one dimensional power forward for a servicable shotblocking center. They got rid of a tweener power forwqard for the best point guard in the draft. They have added two young big man prospects.

The Mavs went from a team with one legimiate center and 5(!) power forwards to a team with 4-5 centers and 2 power forwards. This team is a lot more balanced than last year. And that was the number one priority. Hence the center/point guard speak. The Mavs have got the point guard, and have gotten a decent center rotation.


And I quote ( A decent center rotation). That doesn't warrant the grade of an A!?!? Sure we're more balanced than last year, yet everything is still in the air and currently it's a B not an A. Maybe after august but not now.

NYCdog
08-03-2004, 03:16 PM
I'll sum up my thoughts like this.

It will be interesting to see how Terry fits in on this team.

Cause he is in the same mold of player as Steve Francis and Jamal Crawford.

Do the Mavs really need that on this team? Will it work?

Should be interesting to see.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 03:17 PM
Terry has two years left on his contract and Harris is only like 20 years old. Picking up a veteran, legit starter at the point guard spot with only a two year contract makes so much sense it's not even funny. And just because the Mavs didn't trade Walker for a banger or elite defender doesn't mean they won't trade somebody else for a player like that.

The thing I don't understand is that the Mavs have made three trades this summer, all of which have been good trades, and all of which have, collectively introduced far more balance into the roster than what we had last year, yet after every single trade people come out whining about how they just don't understand what the Mavs are doing. Well let me make it as clear as I can - they're excercising a little thing called patience, and improving the team in the process.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 03:18 PM
need a tissue?

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Terry has two years left on his contract and Harris is only like 20 years old. Picking up a veteran, legit starter at the point guard spot with only a two year contract makes so much sense it's not even funny. And just because the Mavs didn't trade Walker for a banger or elite defender doesn't mean they won't trade somebody else for a player like that.

The thing I don't understand is that the Mavs have made three trades this summer, all of which have been good trades, and all of which have, collectively introduced far more balance into the roster than what we had last year, yet after every single trade people come out whining about how they just don't understand what the Mavs are doing. Well let me make it as clear as I can - they're excercising a little thing called patience, and improving the team in the process.

Yea but that's what the Walker contract was for. Mavs could've got a better deal than this for Walker. What happens when a team like Indiana decides they want to part ways with Ron Artest? Decide their sick of him. I mean I just don't get what the rush was with this deal. They could've waited on this. I don't see how you think the Mavs are excersiing patience. They dealt Walker wayyy to quick. You had plenty of time before training camp. People come out complaining and whining about the deal because we see this every offseason. We loaded up on power fowards last season and where are they now? Three of them are gone. Now we're loading up on guards. This repeating cycle is getting old.

jopace
08-03-2004, 03:30 PM
"KG, SAR, Juwaan Howard, Gasol are all PF's not SF's. Marion is the same height as Fin and Howard. Fin is not a good fit at SF, but JHo is an excellent SF. His outstanding armlength makes him much longer than his height would suggest and he's a fantastic rebounder at the 3. "

I agree that those players play the 4, but they have played the 3 also. I agree that Howard is all of that too. If there are no more trades and/or JHo stays, he's the best option they have at the 3.

PG - Terry/Harris
SG - Finley/Daniels
SF - Howard/Stackhouse
PF - Dirk/Najera/L8
C - Bradley/Booth/Benga/Pavel

Psychedelic Fuzz
08-03-2004, 03:30 PM
I turn off the computer and the radio for one day and this happens. maybe I should go away more often.

Anyway, my grade to this point is a B.
I really like this deal. Something has gotten into the mavs' front office. Two deals in a row that fill needs is unheard of. We trade a huge cancer and someone who rode the pine all season for a starting point guard, and we get back another expiring deal and a draft pick! Honestly, what's not to like here? Sure there is a talent discrepancy, but trading for talent is what got Walker here to begin with.

Crap, I'm in a good mood now, gotta go build up more hostility before posting a rant about Team USA's sucktacular effort against Italy.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 03:31 PM
He's got a point, a little early, it wasn't like teams were dying for terry and especiall not henderson. We will see if this pays off or if we just lost out on someone who will be demanding a trade or will be getting put on the block. I really don't want a repeat of last year.

fuegofrio17
08-03-2004, 03:31 PM
People talk about acquiring a big banger come late August---could we acquire Theo Ratliff for stack and Bradley? this would help clear out the swing position while bolstering the C/F position with arguably the NBAs best shot blocker. How did Terry and Ratliff get along in Atlanta?

basketball jonessss
08-03-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by: fuegofrio17
People talk about acquiring a big banger come late August---could we acquire Theo Ratliff for stack and Bradley? this would help clear out the swing position while bolstering the C/F position with arguably the NBAs best shot blocker. How did Terry and Ratliff get along in Atlanta?

What for. Just start Bradley.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 03:37 PM
Get rid of Bradley for the #1 shot blocker in the nba, ummmm hell yes

madape
08-03-2004, 03:39 PM
grndmstr_c - that's an interesting word, patience.

Patience means not throwing away a great player like Stackhouse, a big expiring contract like Laettner's for an elderly maxed out has-been (never was?) like Antonio Davis.
Patience means not taking signing a career spare like Erick Dampier to an $80M contract.
Patience means not trading Stackhouse AND a first round, almost guaranteed to eventually be lottery-pick, for a crippled, worthless Dale Davis.
Patience means never utterting the words "Nazr", "Othella", "Loren", or "Dasagna".

Patience means means building youth through guys like Pavel, Harris, MBenga, Howard, Daniels, and a propable future lottery pick. It means aquiring only players with reasonable contracts, like Stackhouse, Laettner, Terry, and Henderson. It means getting value from every move you make. In that sense, the Mavericks are playing the game perfectly. Every move they have made since losing Nash has both improved the team and positioned themselves perfectly to make another big move. However, we are still clearly a worse team right now than we were last year. The good news is that this year's big move has yet to happen. There are too many tradable peices that don't quite fit here for the Mavs to stand still. They are like a snake about to strike. There is value to be had out there. There is an NBA superstar waiting to join this team. Which one will it be? What position will he play? When will we know? The answer will come in due time.

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 03:52 PM
Madape that pick is not lottery and if it is the Mavs won't be getting it since it's protected.

madape
08-03-2004, 03:58 PM
Moore said that it would be our pick within three years. I have a feeling Atlanta won't be a playoff team any time soon. The chances are that the pick will eventually be a lottery pick.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 04:02 PM
Yea but that's what the Walker contract was for.
Henderson and L8 together represent about 14.5 million in expiring contracts. We still have the goods to execute a deal that provides cap space to another team. You're making a big deal out of nothing here.

Mavs could've got a better deal than this for Walker.I ask you what teams have been reported as having interest in Walker? NY, and Philly. Did they really have anything on their rosters that was attainable (ie., with a last name that didn't rhyme with Salembert) that was better than the midrange expiring contract, future first, and need-fitting starting point guard we got in this trade?

What happens when a team like Indiana decides they want to part ways with Ron Artest?
With Stackhouse, JHo, Terry, that first rounder, and the expiring contracts of L8 and Henderson we still have plenty of pieces to make a run at Artest if he becomes available.

They dealt Walker wayyy to quick.How the hell do you know that? Walker's got a big salary, and the Mavs can't really afford to take back 2/3 players in exchange for him. As I said above, the list of teams that were legit potential destinations for Walker wasn't that big, and as long as the Mavs have been talking to teams about him I feel pretty confident they knew what his value was (at least what his offseason value was - trade deadline value could have been a different story, but you can't blame them for not wanting to wait that long).

Now we're loading up on guards.
So what. It's nothing like last year where we had PF's playing center. We've got every position covered with players who can actually play the position they'll be asked to play. SF is the only possible exception but even there Fin is at least okay and Josh is a true blue 3. The logjam at SG just means that one of them, probably Stack will be used to net either another SF or a frontcourt banger, but at this point the Mavs only real needs are position upgrades, not positional shuffling.

LRB
08-03-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Moore said that it would be our pick within three years. I have a feeling Atlanta won't be a playoff team any time soon. The chances are that the pick will eventually be a lottery pick.

The pick is most likely Phillys pick and it's lottery protected.

Jamisonite
08-03-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Terry has two years left on his contract and Harris is only like 20 years old. Picking up a veteran, legit starter at the point guard spot with only a two year contract makes so much sense it's not even funny. And just because the Mavs didn't trade Walker for a banger or elite defender doesn't mean they won't trade somebody else for a player like that.

The thing I don't understand is that the Mavs have made three trades this summer, all of which have been good trades, and all of which have, collectively introduced far more balance into the roster than what we had last year, yet after every single trade people come out whining about how they just don't understand what the Mavs are doing. Well let me make it as clear as I can - they're excercising a little thing called patience, and improving the team in the process.

Yea but that's what the Walker contract was for. Mavs could've got a better deal than this for Walker. What happens when a team like Indiana decides they want to part ways with Ron Artest? Decide their sick of him. I mean I just don't get what the rush was with this deal. They could've waited on this. I don't see how you think the Mavs are excersiing patience. They dealt Walker wayyy to quick. You had plenty of time before training camp. People come out complaining and whining about the deal because we see this every offseason. We loaded up on power fowards last season and where are they now? Three of them are gone. Now we're loading up on guards. This repeating cycle is getting old.

Henderson and L8 can bring in the same kind of deal Walker could have in Febuary if we still have them both.

Psychedelic Fuzz
08-03-2004, 04:11 PM
Henderson and L8 can bring in the same kind of deal Walker could have in Febuary if we still have them both

better yet, two deals, or a deal and some money back in Cuban's pocket I'm not sure how many attainable, non-overpaid big men there will be in the 15 million range. I think two smaller expiring deals may eventually get more done than Walker's alone would have.

LRB
08-03-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs



Yea but that's what the Walker contract was for. Mavs could've got a better deal than this for Walker. What happens when a team like Indiana decides they want to part ways with Ron Artest? Decide their sick of him.

FFM with 2 smaller expiring contracts that still add up to almost the same as Walkers we have more flexibility to go after a player like Artest who makes way less than Walker. With Walker we would have had to take back at least 1 more if not 2 more contracts than we shipped off for Artest.

madape
08-03-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: madape
Moore said that it would be our pick within three years. I have a feeling Atlanta won't be a playoff team any time soon. The chances are that the pick will eventually be a lottery pick.

The pick is most likely Phillys pick and it's lottery protected.

I don't know the details on the pick, but I assume it's only lottery protected for a certain amount of time. If it's anything like the way other picks are protected, the protection decreases every year until it's not protected at all. I'm hoping we can luck into a very high pick in the draft in a few years, much like Detroit did with the pick it received in the Otis Thorpe trade.

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs



Yea but that's what the Walker contract was for. Mavs could've got a better deal than this for Walker. What happens when a team like Indiana decides they want to part ways with Ron Artest? Decide their sick of him.

FFM with 2 smaller expiring contracts that still add up to almost the same as Walkers we have more flexibility to go after a player like Artest who makes way less than Walker. With Walker we would have had to take back at least 1 more if not 2 more contracts than we shipped off for Artest.

Though Artest is not available i'm just using him as an example. If Artest was available the Pacers would probably pull a Walker for Artest which I don't think contracts add up so we'd probably have to take a bad contract. Teams don't want Laettner or Henderson for their talent. Every team isn't the Hawks. They gave up Wallace for trash but that was a one time only thing. I doubt anyone gives us anything significant for Henderson and Laettner but a bunch of has beens who have bad contracts. I guess the Knicks would like to deal with us.

V
08-03-2004, 04:21 PM
CBS Sportsline reports the Mavs are the ones giving the first rounder.

LINK (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/7548158)

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 04:24 PM
CBS Sportsline reports the Mavs are the ones giving the first rounder.Seeing as every other source I've seen has had the Mavs receiving the first rounder I'm skeptical.

Texas Hokie
08-03-2004, 04:25 PM
CNNSI and ESPN are now reporting the same thing.

Dooby
08-03-2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by: V
CBS Sportsline reports the Mavs are the ones giving the first rounder.

LINK (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/7548158)

I'll take the word of the FWST, DMN, sports illustrated and ESPN over CBS Sportsline.

We have already traded our 2005 and can't trade our 2006. How can we trade a first rounder, when we don't have one to give until 2007?

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 04:30 PM
Henderson and L8 together represent about 14.5 million in expiring contracts. We still have the goods to execute a deal that provides cap space to another team. You're making a big deal out of nothing here.

Yea, and Walker and Laettner added up to 21 million.


I ask you what teams have been reported as having interest in Walker? NY, and Philly. Did they really have anything on their rosters that was attainable (ie., with a last name that didn't rhyme with Salembert) that was better than the midrange expiring contract, future first, and need-fitting starting point guard we got in this trade?

Add NJ too that list. I'd risk on Kidd for Walker if NJ would be willing to do it and I don't see why not.


How the hell do you know that? Walker's got a big salary, and the Mavs can't really afford to take back 2/3 players in exchange for him. As I said above, the list of teams that were legit potential destinations for Walker wasn't that big, and as long as the Mavs have been talking to teams about him I feel pretty confident they knew what his value was (at least what his offseason value was - trade deadline value could have been a different story, but you can't blame them for not wanting to wait that long).

What do you mean the Mavs can't afford to take back 2/3 layers in exchange for him? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID IN THIS DEAL! I never said about waiting too long. I even said they had plenty of time before training camp. I would like for them to have gotten rid of him before training camp but there was no rush in getting rid of him.


So what. It's nothing like last year where we had PF's playing center. We've got every position covered with players who can actually play the position they'll be asked to play. SF is the only possible exception but even there Fin is at least okay and Josh is a true blue 3. The logjam at SG just means that one of them, probably Stack will be used to net either another SF or a frontcourt banger, but at this point the Mavs only real needs are position upgrades, not positional shuffling.

I could careless if they load up at the power foward position. That's much better than loading up at the guard position. Atleast the power fowards we loaded up on helped us become a top 3 rebounding team in the league. What do all of these guards help us do? Shoot 3's?

Texas Hokie
08-03-2004, 04:33 PM
From Marc Stein's article on ESPN.com

"With the league office closed Tuesday, the deal cannot be finalized before Wednesday, sources said. Atlanta would also receive Philadelphia's protected first-round pick in 2007."

From Marty Burns on CNNSI.com

"The Mavericks and Hawks have agreed in principle on a trade that would send Antoine Walker and Tony Delk and a future first-round draft pick to Atlanta in exchange for Jason Terry and Alan Henderson, according to a league source."

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 04:37 PM
Atlanta would also receive Philadelphia's protected first-round pick in 2007."

That's a typo, because Atlanta already had that pick.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 04:39 PM
Yea, and Walker and Laettner added up to 21 million.
You were whining about Walker's contracts being used. I was merely pointing out that the Mavs still had that same amount in expiring contracts available to use.

Add NJ too that list. I'd risk on Kidd for Walker if NJ would be willing to do it and I don't see why not.
And if the Mavs end up trading for Kidd it's very likely Terry could be involved in the deal. Don't suppose it occured to you they might want a point guard coming back to them, huh? You also didn't take into consideration that maybe Cuban doesn't want to trade for a 31 year old point guard with a 90 million dollar contract and coming off knee surgery until he knows said point guard is healthy.

What do you mean the Mavs can't afford to take back 2/3 layers in exchange for him? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID IN THIS DEAL!No, goob. They traded Walker/Delk for for Terry/Henderson. That's trading 2 for 2, not 1 for 2 or 3.

I could careless if they load up at the power foward position. That's much better than loading up at the guard position. Atleast the power fowards we loaded up on helped us become a top 3 rebounding team in the league. What do all of these guards help us do? Shoot 3's?
Okay, first off, giving minutes to all those PF's didn't just make us a good rebounding team. They also made us a deplorably bad defensive team. As for the guards, as long as they aren't interfering with our ability to play centers at the 5, and PF's at the 4 (they aren't, we have plenty of players at each position), what's the problem? Getting 48 minutes of quality backcourt play?i/expressions/anim_roller.gif

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 04:40 PM

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 04:47 PM
Cause he is in the same mold of player as Steve Francis and Jamal Crawford.

If you mean score-first PGs, then yes. However I bet you can't name more than two guys each season he has played that I would even trust passing the ball to. Jackson last year. He averaged 7.4apg in 2002-2003 with SAR and Glenn Robinson

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 04:52 PM
"The Mavericks and Hawks have agreed in principle on a trade that would send Antoine Walker and Tony Delk and a future first-round draft pick to Atlanta in exchange for Jason Terry and Alan Henderson, according to a league source."

Why'd we have to give them a draft pick? Is Walker that unpopular?

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 04:54 PM
We did NOT give them a draft pick. We don't have Philly's pick to give. THEY do.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 04:55 PM
Why'd we have to give them a draft pick? Is Walker that unpopular?
Something's clearly being misreported regarding the draft pick. Either it's going to Dallas, or it's not that lottery protected Philly pick that Atlanta already owns. I'll be disappointed if it's Dallas giving up the pick, but if it is I can't see any other conclusion that could be drawn other than that Walker is, in fact, that unpopular.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 04:57 PM
this trade is so/so in my books but if we gave them the pick than it wasn't worth it and we could've waited a little longer for more fish to come along.

endtroducing
08-03-2004, 05:15 PM
whoever said Indy would do a deal with Artest involving Walker must be crazy...they've got Jermaine O'Neal and Croshere off the bench. no need for Walker.

this is a great deal for Dallas, really...since I live in Alabama, the only regional games I can watch are Atlanta ones, and I've watched Terry his whole career. his numbers, had he not been playing with ATL, would've been even higher...last year he was pretty much double teamed the entire game. he was the best available point guard out there...if there's a better one, I'd like to know. and if you said "we could've gotten Van Exel," I'll slap you. on a bad day, JT is the same player as Nick is now...and on a good day, he's better than Nick was for us in 2002 and earlier in his career with LA.

I would like Stackhouse to play about 25 minutes a game up until the deadline, as a preview for some team that could be a possible trading partner...Stack/Laettner/scrub can surely net you something of value (maybe Ratliff or Shareef, surely Antonio Davis).

but jesus, we just robbed Atlanta. they're so bad that Travis Hansen decided to play overseas rather than re-sign with them. guess I'll be getting courtside seats for the Dec. 22 game now.

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 05:24 PM
a) Terry had a horrible As/TO ratio last year but wasn't that TO prone. He should improve to at least 2002-2003 levels (7.4apg) when given players to pass to.
b) Terry is not an efficient scorer. That scares me a lot when he plays along side Stackhouse. (he's a career .427 .367 guy)
c) Terry got about twice as many steals last year per game as Steve Nash and is quicker defensively. Let's see how much effort he puts in

rakesh.s
08-03-2004, 05:27 PM
nothing gained in this trade..terry is another guy that needs 20 shots..*sigh*

i have finally lost faith in the "expiring contracts" idea...the mavs just can't do anything with them..so what's the point?

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by: rakesh.s
nothing gained in this trade..terry is another guy that needs 20 shots..*sigh*

i have finally lost faith in the "expiring contracts" idea...the mavs just can't do anything with them..so what's the point?

*sigh* to be clueless about Mavs team needs...

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 05:29 PM
What about that bet, KG?

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

endtroducing
08-03-2004, 05:33 PM
terry takes almost 6 less shots per game than Walker did, and is a much better career 3 point and overall scorer. and that was on a team with NOBODY.

remember van exel here? how everyone thought he'd do the same as you just said? he didn't, and terry won't either. terry is a fierce as hell player...he will literally give you everything he has to win. he's not soft, like, uh...steve nash, maybe? and that's with the HAWKS. put him with this team, and he'll improve exponentially.

sike
08-03-2004, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by: madape
grndmstr_c - that's an interesting word, patience.

Patience means not throwing away a great player like Stackhouse, a big expiring contract like Laettner's for an elderly maxed out has-been (never was?) like Antonio Davis.
Patience means not taking signing a career spare like Erick Dampier to an $80M contract.
Patience means not trading Stackhouse AND a first round, almost guaranteed to eventually be lottery-pick, for a crippled, worthless Dale Davis.
Patience means never utterting the words "Nazr", "Othella", "Loren", or "Dasagna".

Patience means means building youth through guys like Pavel, Harris, MBenga, Howard, Daniels, and a propable future lottery pick. It means aquiring only players with reasonable contracts, like Stackhouse, Laettner, Terry, and Henderson. It means getting value from every move you make. In that sense, the Mavericks are playing the game perfectly. Every move they have made since losing Nash has both improved the team and positioned themselves perfectly to make another big move. However, we are still clearly a worse team right now than we were last year. The good news is that this year's big move has yet to happen. There are too many tradable peices that don't quite fit here for the Mavs to stand still. They are like a snake about to strike. There is value to be had out there. There is an NBA superstar waiting to join this team. Which one will it be? What position will he play? When will we know? The answer will come in due time.
GREAT POST! Though I disagree with one thing: "we are still clearly a worse team right now than we were last year."
last season's team reinforced one thing game after game: the most talented team is not always the best team. Monkey, I agree that a team with Nash, Finley, Daniels, Howard, Jamison, Walker, Dirk is more talented than the team now calling itself the Dallas Mavericks, but all that great talent did not a great team make. So if talent was your point, I agree. But the team as now assembled looks like it will fit its talent(thought less than last year's team) together better than that chemistry nightmare that was the 2003/2004 mavericks.

kg_veteran
08-03-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
What about that bet, KG?

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Hot damn, I had honestly forgotten about that. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Let me get to looking for a suitable avatar so that I can wear Antoine's face with pride for the next month...

Male30Dan
08-03-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
What about that bet, KG?

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Hot damn, I had honestly forgotten about that. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Let me get to looking for a suitable avatar so that I can wear Antoine's face with pride for the next month...

Nice to see you LOSE a bet after beating me so bad in our wager!!!

NYCdog
08-03-2004, 05:44 PM
If you mean score-first PGs, then yes.

Correct answer.....Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!

Now how will this work with this offense. Dirk will NEED his shots. So will the the rest of the youngins to gain a measure of confidence on the court. Stackhouse will WANT his shots. So will Finley. So the question begs.....how will this offense work together with a score-first PG running the point guard instead of a pass-first PG?


I think a little more patience could have helped the Mavs land Jason Kidd, the pass-first PG they need the most.

Think about it.....if the Mavs could have hung in there and gut it out until trade deadline time (or maybe sooner) Jason Kidd could have been in a Mavs uniform. By then, he surely would have been demanding a trade as he would see he no longer has a chance to win his ring in Jersey, and has a better chance of winning it in Dallas. By then he would have been sick of losing with the Nets, as he will be doing this up coming season. Walker could have landed you Kidd easily by then as he would have been the piece the Nets would have sought due to his expiring contract and the list of takers for Kidd would be a very short one. (probably limited to one team...guess who?)

Could patience have paid off here.....I think so.

endtroducing
08-03-2004, 05:48 PM
you guys seem to ignore the facts in order to support your rhetoric. terry averaged close to 9 assists the season prior to this one...this past year, he wanted out of ATL badly, and was double (and sometimes triple) teamed. even with his main assist target being bob sura, he managed to eek out 5 and a half assists per game. second of all...he isn't just a merely 'shoot-first' point guard...he takes a LOT less fewer shots than you think.

terry brings a lot of intangibles to the team, as well. he's tough, he takes it to the rack, he can bang, and he can throw some 'bows. terry is much better than you're making him out to be.

vinnieponte
08-03-2004, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by: NYCdog

If you mean score-first PGs, then yes.

Correct answer.....Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!

Now how will this work with this offense. Dirk will NEED his shots. So will the the rest of the youngins to gain a measure of confidence on the court. Stackhouse will WANT his shots. So will Finley. So the question begs.....how will this offense work together with a score-first PG running the point guard instead of a pass-first PG?


I think a little more patience could have helped the Mavs land Jason Kidd, the pass-first PG they need the most.

Think about it.....if the Mavs could have hung in there and gut it out until trade deadline time (or maybe sooner) Jason Kidd could have been in a Mavs uniform. By then, he surely would have been demanding a trade as he would see he no longer has a chance to win his ring in Jersey, and has a better chance of winning it in Dallas. By then he would have been sick of losing with the Nets, as he will be doing this up coming season. Walker could have landed you Kidd easily by then as he would have been the piece the Nets would have sought due to his expiring contract and the list of takers for Kidd would be a very short one. (probably limited to one team...guess who?)

Could patience have paid off here.....I think so.

I just want Kidd, sorry-guilty as charged for wanting a better roster

Bayliss
08-03-2004, 05:49 PM
Oh good lord. You mean I have to look at Antoine's stinkin' face for one more month?

(Sorry madape, just couldn't resist. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif)

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 05:54 PM
b) Terry is not an efficient scorer. That scares me a lot when he plays along side Stackhouse. (he's a career .427 .367 guy)EL, JT's not as bad as you think, and is actually a more efficient scorer than Finley for their respective careers, averaging 53.3% true shooting as compared to 52.7% for Mike.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 06:16 PM
FWIW, CNNSI has now re-edited their blurb on the trade to have the pick coming to Dallas.

FreshJive
08-03-2004, 06:17 PM
Holy *&^% what a good trade for the Mavs. A starting caliber scoring point with two years on his contract is exactly what the Mavs needed. Its the perfect balance of future flexibility, and present day needs. How can you not like this trade? I guess no trade will be liked by all, but I would figured that this one would be it.

fin4life
08-03-2004, 06:18 PM
I understand that people want kidd... but i have to say that I respect Cuban a lot for sticking to a plan. He said he wasnt going to take any contracts past 2008, and he didnt.

I firmly believe that if we really wanted kidd, we could have had him by now. I think he is a superior tanlent to Terry, but Terry has 15mil over 2 years instead of 90over5. IMO, Cuban did the right thing and I think it will benifit the youngsters (escpesially Harris) becasue it will make the mav's future a lot easier to manage becasue we wont have 80 mil. in salaries each year. Getting a 1st rounder from one of the worst teams in the league is also GREAT for the future.

Kleany
08-03-2004, 06:55 PM
Mavs Offseason Trades = B

Terry we be good with the team. Mavs been known to be the soft white boy team. Nash gone, with Terry, that will all change.
All i hear is Mavs need to get a Banger Center, blah blah blah. We all wish that, but sometimes dat cant happen. Not all teams in the West have Super Centers. TWolves have Kandi man, he sucked. Lakers dont got no super center, neither does Spurs. Plus we got a huge 4-5 man rotation of centers. Heck, i like Booth, i think booth will be a good center for us.

dude1394
08-03-2004, 07:13 PM
I am VERY happy that this at least takes the pressure off trying to get kidd. If last year the mavs would have gotten mutumbo(?) it would have been catastrophic. I'm glad to see that cubes has learned his lesson on taking on that much risk.

I don't think kidd will be close to his old self for at least a year and then he's be what 33?? or so?.

fin4life
08-03-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by: dude1394
I am VERY happy that this at least takes the pressure off trying to get kidd. If last year the mavs would have gotten mutumbo(?) it would have been catastrophic. I'm glad to see that cubes has learned his lesson on taking on that much risk.

I don't think kidd will be close to his old self for at least a year and then he's be what 33?? or so?.

I think you are exactly right, but i want to add to you point.

What if we got a center that was in even worse shape the mutumbo... ZO. Cuban make the flight on July 1 to miami to make Zo his #1 priority of the offseason. We were offering 4 years 20 mil gaurunteed!!!!!!!!!!!! now he might never play again. Cuban is being more responsible this summer and I am happy this year.

Thus far, my offseason grade is a B... that is irrellevent right now becasue a big deal will go down betweem aug 24-26.

V
08-03-2004, 07:38 PM
I haven't seen this posted anywhere... but Skin was on the Ticket with the Hardline on my drive home (Hardline are effin idiots) ... Skin loves the trade.

Interesting note:

Skin said Jason Terry - in college - was THE BEST on the ball defender he has ever seen. Terry has the ability to be an outstanding defender.

He said it's likely Terry didn't play D in Atlanta because no one else did. Atlanta had a loosing atmosphere. 5000 fans show up for games. He wanted to be traded etc.

Hell Ratliff didn't even play defense when he was there. Check the stats. Ratliff went to Portland & all the sudden he's a freakin monster. They love Ratliff in Portland. We can only hope the same thing happens with Terry.

DevinHarriswillstart
08-03-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by: V
I haven't seen this posted anywhere... but Skin was on the Ticket with the Hardline on my drive home (Hardline are effin idiots) ... Skin loves the trade.

Interesting note:

Skin said Jason Terry - in college - was THE BEST on the ball defender he has ever seen. Terry has the ability to be an outstanding defender.

He said it's likely Terry didn't play D in Atlanta because no one else did. Atlanta had a loosing atmosphere. 5000 fans show up for games. He wanted to be traded etc.

Hell Ratliff didn't even play defense when he was there. Check the stats. Ratliff went to Portland & all the sudden he's a freakin monster. They love Ratliff in Portland. We can only hope the same thing happens with Terry.

Well, nobody plays defense on our team either, so why would be be inspired here?

In response to how they love Ratliff in Portland, Shareef isn't turning out so well no is he?

endtroducing
08-03-2004, 08:17 PM
uh, actually, it's shareef. the people or ownership don't have anything against him...he just doesn't want to be there.

V
08-03-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart

Originally posted by: V


Well, nobody plays defense on our team either, so why would be be inspired here?



Several reasons:

1. Little General will whip him into shape.

2. Harris will take Terry's job. I love the depth on this team. Harris is hungry & he's a lotto pick. You think he's going to sit on the bench if Terry's not playing defense? It's going to be competitive for minutes so Terry's going to have to give max effort.

3. The Mavs are a winning organization. Go back & read some old articles to find Jason Terry quotes... all the guy ever talks about is how much he wants to win. He didn't take big money to stay in Atlanta. He took a small offer from Utah. Why? Becasue he wants to win. Given an opportunity to win you will see Terry play defense.

chumdawg
08-03-2004, 08:24 PM
Besides, I thought everybody knew that we've decided to play defense this year anyway.

ddh33
08-03-2004, 08:25 PM
Terry is a winner. He'll be fine in Dallas. In fact, I think he'll be better than fine. He can run, shoot, score even when his shot isn't falling, defend, and move the ball well enough. As far as fits go, he's one of the better ones for this team.

Of course, when you compare Jason to Kidd, he will fall short. For that matter, you can compare any PG in the league to Jason Kidd and he will be found lacking. But lest anyone forget, we still don't know for ABSOLUTE sure what this Jason Kidd will look like. I happen to think that he'll be fine. In which case, the Mavs can evaluate that decision then. In the meantime, Dallas has a player who will look like a budding star once he gets here.

DevinHarriswillstart
08-03-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by: V

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart

Originally posted by: V


Well, nobody plays defense on our team either, so why would be be inspired here?



Several reasons:

1. Little General will whip him into shape.

2. Harris will take Terry's job. I love the depth on this team. Harris is hungry & he's a lotto pick. You think he's going to sit on the bench if Terry's not playing defense? It's going to be competitive for minutes so Terry's going to have to give max effort.

3. The Mavs are a winning organization. Go back & read some old articles to find Jason Terry quotes... all the guy ever talks about is how much he wants to win. He didn't take big money to stay in Atlanta. He took a small offer from Utah. Why? Becasue he wants to win. Given an opportunity to win you will see Terry play defense.


Lol, I know, I'm just saying that I do hope he plays defense here. The point about 5000 fans showing up is better then being on a team that plays no defense. I REALLY hope he can be a top 10 defender. Although, 1.5 steals doesn't come out of nowhere. He was a good defender, even on Atlanta. I remember him scoring 46 on us. His slashing skills to the hoop are amazing. If he wants to win, then his assists will go up to 7. I can alwmost guarantee it. Why? Because two years ago, he had arguably his best season. The reason for this....They got big dog, Shareef, Theo to surround him. He had absolutely no reason to pass the ball to anyonel ast year, but he still played pretty well considering. The last 5 games of the season, he played out of his mind. He had a couple of 11 assist games, so I dunno what everyone is talking abuot this guy can't pass. He can pass, he just has to want to. On our team, he will want to. We are winners now, not losers.

DevinHarriswillstart
08-03-2004, 09:27 PM
on ESPN radio, their ticker is "Mavs trade Walker for trash" No wonder players don't want to come here. I always give love to the players we obtained. I have Walker a chance, and it didn't work. Terry now gets my love, even though I wanted Harris to start. I'm not gonna treat our team like crap just because we didn't get Shaq, Kidd or Dampier. There are about 26 teams who won't have them either. Ugh.

Drbio
08-03-2004, 09:34 PM
ESPN Radio has a rolling ticker?

Drbio
08-03-2004, 09:35 PM
Solid trade. Terry will do very well in Dallas, we finally get rid of Walker and the associated distraction and we stole a first round pick to boot.

There is not a lot to be disappointed in here.

chumdawg
08-03-2004, 09:44 PM
I just may start a Jason Terry fan club. That is, after I get my DJ Benga fan club up and running.

Jamisonite
08-03-2004, 09:57 PM
Lets make this plain and simple...a little prediction from me

Terry does better in Dallas than Nash does in PHX

Nash is surrounded by way bigger egos than Terry and you will see that Terry isnt the shoot first PG everyone thinks he is. He had to shoot in ATL cuz he had no one. I think he will average a solid 12, 7, 4 easy. Maybe more than 12 if we move stackhouse.

cheesestar
08-03-2004, 09:59 PM
i think terry will fit in well with the system.. but the pick is what makes me really like this trade...i just hope we find a way to dump henderson

endtroducing
08-03-2004, 10:08 PM
the pick will likely end up being a trade exception, by the way. dallas would have to meet a ton of unattainable terms (for a winning team) to use that pick.

Finley4ever
08-03-2004, 10:17 PM
Article from Atlanta Journal Constitution:

Hawks sending Terry, Henderson to Mavs for Walker By MICHAEL LEE
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer
08/03/04

In a move that will provide them more salary cap wiggle room, the Hawks will add a talented player known for his patented wiggle.

The Hawks have agreed to a deal in which they will acquire three-time All-Star Antoine Walker and Tony Delk from the Dallas Mavericks in exchange for Jason Terry, Alan Henderson and a first round pick, a source with knowledge of the situation confirmed Tuesday. The trade, which could place the Hawks almost $20 million under the salary cap next summer, won't be finalized until the NBA league offices reopen Wednesday.

Contacted by phone in Las Vegas, where the Hawks' rookies are participating in a basketball camp, general manager Billy Knight said, "We may have something to tell you [today]."

Walker, who has career averages of 19.9 points, 8.6 rebounds and 4.2 assists, had been the subject of trade rumors all summer because he is in the last year of a contract which will pay him $14.625 million this season. He was reportedly seeking deals with the Philadelphia 76ers (which would have re-united him with his former coach in Boston, Jim O'Brien) or the New York Knicks (where team president Isiah Thomas is a fan).

But Knight swooped in with the package the Mavericks were looking for. They received a veteran point guard, Henderson and the 2007 first round pick the Hawks acquired from Philadelphia in the Glenn Robinson trade last summer to the Mavericks.

The only possible glitch to the deal was avoided Tuesday when Terry agreed to take his headband and high socks to Big D. Since Terry signed an offer sheet (which the Hawks later matched) with the Utah Jazz last September, he had the power to veto any trade made within the first year of the deal under the league's collective bargaining agreement.

Instead, Terry will give the Mavericks the veteran point guard they have been seeking since Steve Nash signed a six-year, $65 million deal with Phoenix last month. Terry has two years left on a three-year, $22.5 million deal and averaged 16.6 and 5.5 assists in five seasons with the Hawks.

Terry is also in Las Vegas for personal reasons but could not be reached for comment.

Henderson, who in the last year of a deal that will pay him $8.2 million, has spent his entire nine-year career with the Hawks and was second behind Indiana's Reggie Miller in tenure with the same team. He has battled a series of injuries since signing a seven-year, $45 million deal in 1998 and played just six games last season with a back ailment.

"I appreciate the opportunity the organization gave me nine years ago," Henderson said. "I hope the trade works out well for both teams."

Terry and Henderson are two of the last remnants of former Hawks general manager Pete Babcock's regime, leaving Chris Crawford as the only player on the Hawks roster that Knight didn't draft or acquire in a trade.

Walker gives the Hawks a versatile 6-foot-9 power forward with the ability to score and create for scoring opportunities for his teammates. During his first seven seasons with the Boston Celtics, he earned reputation for hoisting wild shots and shimmying after he hit big ones. Walker was traded to the Mavericks before last season and abandoned his "Walker Wiggle" while struggling to fit in. He averaged a career-low 14 points per game and publicly expressed his displeasure with his role as the season progressed.

But he returns to an Eastern Conference with few talented power forwards, especially with the recent defection of Kenyon Martin from New Jersey to Denver.

Delk will replace Terry at starting point guard. Delk played only 33 games last year because of injury. He averaged 8.8 points in an eight-year career with Charlotte, Golden State, Sacramento, Phoenix, Boston and Dallas. He is owed about $6.5 million the next two years.

The Hawks continue to wait on Golden State center Erick Dampier, who was offered a six-year deal worth about $50 million dollars more than two weeks ago. But Dampier is still pushing for a sign-and-trade deal with the Knicks.

By acquiring Walker's expiring contract and trading Terry, the Hawks will save almost $3 million next summer. They will have enough money to pursue a maximum contract player next year, when the free agent class is expected to be much stronger than this past summer.

The Hawks were also informed that reserve guard Travis Hansen will sign with a team in Spain. Hansen speaks Spanish after spending two years on a Mormon mission in Chile. The Hawks are interested in replacing him with either Bob Sura or Denver free agent Jon Barry.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 10:18 PM
I'd expect him to average more than 12 points regardless. 10 fga's per game at his normal level of efficiency would get him 12 points. By comparison, Nash took 11 fga's per game last season in only 33 minutes per, and Steve had a bit of a bad habit of passing on shots he probably should have taken. Terry doesn't look to shoot near as much as people think, but I still wouldn't look for him to be any less active than Steve in the scoring department. My bet would be somewhere in the area of 14-15 ppg.

dude1394
08-03-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by: V
I haven't seen this posted anywhere... but Skin was on the Ticket with the Hardline on my drive home (Hardline are effin idiots) ... Skin loves the trade.

Interesting note:

Skin said Jason Terry - in college - was THE BEST on the ball defender he has ever seen. Terry has the ability to be an outstanding defender.

He said it's likely Terry didn't play D in Atlanta because no one else did. Atlanta had a loosing atmosphere. 5000 fans show up for games. He wanted to be traded etc.

Hell Ratliff didn't even play defense when he was there. Check the stats. Ratliff went to Portland & all the sudden he's a freakin monster. They love Ratliff in Portland. We can only hope the same thing happens with Terry.


So DID you really check them?? Blocks are up, but not much else.

mavsman55
08-03-2004, 10:31 PM
When I first heard about this trade, I was a little hesitant because I was under the impression that Terry was a score-first pass-second kind of guard, judging by his point and assist numbers for last year. But after having had a couple hours to soak it in and read this thread, I realize that the only reason he came across that way is because of his team. Basically, having 5.4 assists and 16.8 ppg on a team like Atlanta last year isn't too bad. As a matter of fact it's impressive. Nash had a ton of assists because he was surrounded at all times by people who could reliably score. All Terry had was Stephen Jackson. When he comes to Dallas, there is a good chance he'll be able to adapt to our style of gameplay quickly and realize that he's not the center of the team. He is capable of pouring out assist after assist, which I predict might happen more and more often now that he's surrounded by capable scorers. Now I'm more excited than I ever have been about the start of a fresh Mavs season.

Throw in the 1st rounder, and this trade turned out to be an absolute steal for us.

Tex
08-03-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
I know little about Terry. I lean on the brain trust of D-M.com for information about him. So far, I have gathered the following, and please correct anything I have wrong.

Terry is an offensive-minded (I read into that he does not play Defense) PG, who was on an untalented team so he got double teamed alot.

So given that, perhaps he will flourish in Dallas. The only "issues" I have is that if he doesn't play much D, is he not just a poor man's Steve Nash? And also, we would be taking back more players than are leaving? I guess that means more deals to come later.

But heck, for Walker? If Atlanta will do that I would drive Walker to Atlanta this afternoon. Save them on the airfare.

edit: I can't spell.

When they say he is offensive minded you took it wrong. He is more of a shoot first point/shooting combo guard more like say marbury in new york in a way but marbury is a better PG.... But he is also called an offensive PG. Doesnt mean he can't play "D" but rather a slight knock on his focus on his own shooting rather then dishing it out. No worse then Danials was for us at times last year. At times danials would bring it all the way downa nd never even look around at Dirk standing wide open etc... Nash could score but it was more to make them honest. He rarely forced it. His goal was to move the ball and find the open man. But Terry has been stuck on sorry teams where there were only a couple scorers to put it in the hoop. Hopefully he can see a chance to reinvent himself here, With all our shooters to draw doubles he could almost "accidently" get 15 points a night but his goal should be 8+ assists a night for sure or we got big....big... problems.

Tex

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 10:48 PM
his goal should be 8+ assists a night for sure or we got big....big... problems.Nash has averaged more than 8 assists per game once in his entire career - last year - yet we've had a pretty devastating offense for a while now. Terry doesn't need to get 8 apg to be doing a good job. If he's getting 35 mpg (I'd say that's about right) we should be fine as long as he's dropping ~ 7 dimes a night and not turning the ball over too often.

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 10:52 PM
16ppg, 7.5apg 4rpg with fewer than 3tos would be perfect

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by: endtroducing
whoever said Indy would do a deal with Artest involving Walker must be crazy...they've got Jermaine O'Neal and Croshere off the bench. no need for Walker.

this is a great deal for Dallas, really...since I live in Alabama, the only regional games I can watch are Atlanta ones, and I've watched Terry his whole career. his numbers, had he not been playing with ATL, would've been even higher...last year he was pretty much double teamed the entire game. he was the best available point guard out there...if there's a better one, I'd like to know. and if you said "we could've gotten Van Exel," I'll slap you. on a bad day, JT is the same player as Nick is now...and on a good day, he's better than Nick was for us in 2002 and earlier in his career with LA.

I would like Stackhouse to play about 25 minutes a game up until the deadline, as a preview for some team that could be a possible trading partner...Stack/Laettner/scrub can surely net you something of value (maybe Ratliff or Shareef, surely Antonio Davis).

but jesus, we just robbed Atlanta. they're so bad that Travis Hansen decided to play overseas rather than re-sign with them. guess I'll be getting courtside seats for the Dec. 22 game now.


Reread above. No one said Indie would deal Artest for Walker. Also the Pacers wouldn't be taking Walker for his talent they'd be taking him for cap space but I guess I overvalue cap space because either teams don't want it or they just aren't worth a damn.

jayC
08-03-2004, 10:53 PM
It seems as if terry is a nellie guy. A guy that is supposedly a shoot first point guard with the exception that he can play defense. Jason Terry is the Arizona Wildcats all-time steal leader.


As for Kidd the injury, the fact that nba players play every day may preclude them from returning to form. His shooting percentage is never that good. This year it was putrid with Kidd shooting 38 percent from the field. The trade besides from a talent perspective maybe the classic addition by subtraction trade. Walker never fit here except when he dominated the ball and that just wouldn't work here. Atlanta might be a good place for him to ressurect his career.

From a money perspective they only have to pay 1.64 million dollars on Henderson's deal.

Bayliss
08-03-2004, 10:54 PM
Harris and Terry need to average around 10-11 assists. If the Mavs get that from the two players then the Mavs will have a very efficient point guard position.

Nash13
08-03-2004, 10:55 PM
I've always had a man-crush on Terry. This trade really made my day. Finally, we have a starting point guard, and we have good enough centers.

Regardless of another deal coming, I smell a title.

MightyToine
08-03-2004, 11:07 PM
Walker will have a grand ole time in Atlanta. He will be hoisting shots up left and right & no matter whether he misses them or not, NO ONE WILL CARE! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif



It's the perfect team for him, especially now that Kenyon Martin has gone West to Denver....


Prediction : Walk is a 4-time Allstar when the next offseason comes around and somehow helps get the team to the Playoffs(parity rules!); Nash gets a basketball shoved up his ass by Benga; Knicks still suck.


GO MAVS!!

FilthyFinMavs
08-03-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by: Nash13
I've always had a man-crush on Terry. This trade really made my day. Finally, we have a starting point guard, and we have good enough centers.

Regardless of another deal coming, I smell a title.

Mavs have declined in rebounding and still have no post play on both sides of the ball but you smell a title? Hey, I just hope your right. I hope this team does get a title this year but I just don't see it with this current roster.

grndmstr_c
08-03-2004, 11:18 PM
Your average NBA team gets around 8.5 assists per game out of the point guard spot, give or take. Last year only four teams averaged better than 10 assists per game out of their point guards - the Mavs (10.6), the Knicks (10.8), Memphis (11.1) and Milwaukee (11.6). If we get 10-11 apg combined out of Harris and Terry next year (without either of them playin significant time at SG), that would almost assuredly mean we have one of the top 5 point guard rotations in the league in terms of ball distribution.

EricaLubarsky
08-03-2004, 11:21 PM
Interestingly enough Terry and Nash had extremely similar numbers in 2002-2003.

Terry- 7.4
Nash- 7.3

LRB
08-03-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by: V
I haven't seen this posted anywhere... but Skin was on the Ticket with the Hardline on my drive home (Hardline are effin idiots) ... Skin loves the trade.

Interesting note:

Skin said Jason Terry - in college - was THE BEST on the ball defender he has ever seen. Terry has the ability to be an outstanding defender.

He said it's likely Terry didn't play D in Atlanta because no one else did. Atlanta had a loosing atmosphere. 5000 fans show up for games. He wanted to be traded etc.

Hell Ratliff didn't even play defense when he was there. Check the stats. Ratliff went to Portland & all the sudden he's a freakin monster. They love Ratliff in Portland. We can only hope the same thing happens with Terry.


The comment about Terry not playing D because no one else did gives me fear coming to a Don Nelson coached team. At least Atlanta wasn't coached not to play D. Hopefully Nellie will at least partially change his ways, but this doesn't give me much hope of a PG who will bring D without it 1st being created here on the team.

ddh33
08-03-2004, 11:41 PM
I honestly think that you didn't see Terry D it up as usual because it was an exercise in futility. Losing wears on you, and if you are completely shutting down your man, but your team continues to lose because no one else will defend, it is easy to get into bad habits.

I think that Terry will defend in Dallas. Worst case, he is better at getting situational stops than Nash.

MavKikiNYC
08-03-2004, 11:48 PM
The comment about Terry not playing D because no one else did gives me fear coming to a Don Nelson coached team. At least Atlanta wasn't coached not to play D. Hopefully Nellie will at least partially change his ways, but this doesn't give me much hope of a PG who will bring D without it 1st being created here on the team.

My thoughts exactly. He isn't likely to be getting a lot of defensive encouragement here.

dirno2000
08-04-2004, 12:00 AM
It’s been clear for a while that Walker had to go. It’s also clear that few teams are going to saddle themselves with a player they don’t want for a whole year…expiring contract notwithstanding. As such, it would have taken pretty horrible Walker trade for me not to be in favor of it. Terry is good, solid player who was forced to do too much in Atlanta. That can be a hard habit to break, especially for a pg since he has the ball in his hands a lot. If he can break it, he should work out nicely.

Though I like all of out trades individually, as a whole I’m not thrilled about the fact that we’ve brought three players in Stackhouse, Laetner and Terry that carry the stench of losing. All three have played on mediocre to bad teams their whole careers. Losing wears on a player and before you know it, he accepts it. You pretty much have to. Not saying that these guys can’t turn it around, but I hate the fact that we’re heavily dependant on it if they’re still here. Unless Dirk reverts to a 25-10 guy, I just have an uneasy feeling about this team.

EricaLubarsky
08-04-2004, 12:04 AM
Jamison wreaks of losing. Walker wreaks of losing. Lafrentz stunk of it too. We don't have any of those guys. If it's about the number of guys that have always been losers, we got rid of 3 and got 3. We're even, Dirno.

MavKikiNYC
08-04-2004, 12:10 AM
Edit..

Kleany
08-04-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by: dirno2000
It’s been clear for a while that Walker had to go. It’s also clear that few teams are going to saddle themselves with a player they don’t want for a whole year…expiring contract notwithstanding. As such, it would have taken pretty horrible Walker trade for me not to be in favor of it. Terry is good, solid player who was forced to do too much in Atlanta. That can be a hard habit to break, especially for a pg since he has the ball in his hands a lot. If he can break it, he should work out nicely.

Though I like all of out trades individually, as a whole I’m not thrilled about the fact that we’ve brought three players in Stackhouse, Laetner and Terry that carry the stench of losing. All three have played on mediocre to bad teams their whole careers. Losing wears on a player and before you know it, he accepts it. You pretty much have to. Not saying that these guys can’t turn it around, but I hate the fact that we’re heavily dependant on it if they’re still here. Unless Dirk reverts to a 25-10 guy, I just have an uneasy feeling about this team.

Terry wanted out of ATL because he WANTED TO WIN. he said that hes a COMPETITIVE person and wants to win. He knew he couldnt win in ATL but in Dallas he has a real chance of winning a championship.

About the assist, i am near certain that with mavs other scoring talents, his assist will GO UP to his old 7.4 assist per game back in 2002-03. How can u expect a PG to dish out a lot of assist when no one on ATL could score. He was needed as an offensive player in ATL, so thats what he did.

dirno2000
08-04-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Jamison wreaks of losing. Walker wreaks of losing. Lafrentz stunk of it too. We don't have any of those guys. If it's about the number of guys that have always been losers, we got rid of 3 and got 3. We're even, Dirno.That's what I'm afraid of...even is not having home court advantage and losing in the 1st round of the playoff to a very beatable team.

As far as Walker, he had some success in Boston. His problem is one of talent. He's been to the conference finals, so I doubt he's accepted losing. Of course he better start accepting it in Atlanta.

MavKikiNYC
08-04-2004, 12:10 AM
Add Booth, and they're one loser up. Although I actually like him as an acquisition.