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MavsFanFinley
09-14-2004, 10:57 PM
Nets, Blazers talking about Kidd-for-Shareef deal

Sept. 14, 2004
By Mike Kahn

The New Jersey Nets are talking to the Portland Trail Blazers about a trade that would include sending Jason Kidd to the Blazers for forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim, SportsLine.com has learned.

Blazers president Steve Patterson confirmed Tuesday afternoon that discussions have gone on, although he made it clear that a deal has not been completed.

"It's early," Patterson said. "It's interesting, but I don't know if anything will happen."

Another source told SportsLine.com that the Blazers are busy getting opinions on the micro-fracture surgery that Kidd had on his left knee July 1 that figures to have him out until December. The surgery was successful, and Kidd has made it clear he would like to leave the Nets, who were sold to Bruce Ratner in the spring and have essentially purged their roster since then.

Although they did sign young forward Richard Jefferson to a six-year, $78 million extension last month, Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles and Rodney Rogers are gone, with virtually nothing but future draft picks in return.

Former Cal stars Kidd and Abdur-Rahim are at the heart of the talks. (Getty Images)
Kidd, 31, led the NBA in assists for the fifth time last season, and it was the fifth time he has been selected first-team All-NBA. He came to the Nets before the 2001-02 season in a trade with the Suns, and the Nets won the Eastern Conference in 2002 and 2003, losing to the Los Angeles Lakers in the 2002 Finals and the San Antonio Spurs the next year.

Kidd, who was drafted by Dallas out of Cal in 1994, signed a six-year deal worth more than $100 million with the Nets before the 2003-04 season.

Also a former star at Cal, Abdur-Rahim, 28, is a 6-foot-10, 240-pound forward acquired by the Blazers from Atlanta last season with Theo Ratliff and Dan Dickau for Rasheed Wallace. However, after averaging 20.7 points and 8.3 rebounds in his previous seven seasons, he was a bad fit in Portland. He averaged just 10.0 points and 4.5 rebounds in 22.8 minutes a game behind Zach Randolph, the NBA's most improved player.

Abdur-Rahim will make more than $14.6 million in this, the final season of his contract and has made it clear he wants out. The Blazers have tried to talk him into playing small forward next to Randolph, but he isn't really athletic enough to play the small forwards in the West and is a much better fit in the East. And the Blazers just signed small forward Darius Miles to a six-year, $48 million contract.

The Nets had talked to the Blazers about Abdur-Rahim earlier in the summer, with Kittles as the bait, but the deal fell through and Kittles went to the Los Angeles Clippers for a draft choice.

Perhaps the biggest problem with the deal is the Blazers drafted prep point guard Sebastian Telfair with the 13th pick overall in the 2004 draft. Add to that, they already have point guards Damon Stoudamire and Nick Van Exel making some $27 million between them.

The concept prompted Steve Patterson to joke, "Actually, we're trying to build a roster with just point guards and small forwards."

And yet, there is logic to the deal, particularly if the Blazers throw in Telfair. He is a native of Brooklyn, where Ratner is planning to move the Nets, and would likely be just hitting his stride when the move would be completed.

It would have no bearing on the salary cap since Kidd and Abdur-Rahim are so close and there is a 15 percent leeway.

Besides, both Stoudamire and Van Exel are just as likely to be considered undersized shooters as point guards and the 6-4, 215-pound Kidd -- a perennial all-defensive selection -- is very capable of guarding the big guards. Moreover, the contracts of both Stoudamire and Van Exel are up after this season.

"Like I said," Patterson said, "it's early."

Yes, but far from too late.

EricaLubarsky
09-14-2004, 10:59 PM
yikes.

Max Power
09-14-2004, 11:07 PM
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

dirk2003
09-14-2004, 11:20 PM
SAR is considered THAT cheap?

EricaLubarsky
09-14-2004, 11:22 PM
SAR is really going to regret wanting to be traded from Portland. The Nets sans Kidd and K-Mart are perhaps worse than the Hawks teams of the last few years.

dirk2003
09-14-2004, 11:28 PM
It is his contract year. He WILL get a better offer next summer by playing well for NJ rather than sitting on the bench for POR.

EricaLubarsky
09-14-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

SAR is on par with Jamison but is also in a conract year. We don't have anyone expiring that is worth close to SAR.

MavsFanFinley
09-14-2004, 11:31 PM
I wonder what NVE and Stoudamire think of this rumor?

EricaLubarsky
09-15-2004, 12:00 AM
Im sure they are glad they went on that shopping spree to Georgio Armani's luggage sale.

Rod1975
09-15-2004, 12:00 AM
On a side note: SAR had his shot blocked more times than any other player in the NBA last season.

Max Power
09-15-2004, 12:31 AM
I don't even think of SAR being as good as Jamison. Big Dog is a closer comparison.

I agree that the contract of SAR is the main thing that New Jersey is interested in. But we should be able to counter with Henderson (expiring contract) and Stack (who is basically as good as SAR). We could pitch in Bradley who is a decent and cheap center to finish the deal.

Dallas trades: PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.7 ppg, -3.3 rpg, and +4.6 apg.

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 26 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 66 games)
Change in team outlook: +5.7 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and -4.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

mavsfanforever
09-15-2004, 07:43 AM
Blazers are building a team that would need nellie as head coach. 4 pgs would give Nellie orgasms.

sike
09-15-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power
I don't even think of SAR being as good as Jamison. Big Dog is a closer comparison.

I agree that the contract of SAR is the main thing that New Jersey is interested in. But we should be able to counter with Henderson (expiring contract) and Stack (who is basically as good as SAR). We could pitch in Bradley who is a decent and cheap center to finish the deal.

Dallas trades: PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 29.8 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -5.7 ppg, -3.3 rpg, and +4.6 apg.

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
SF Jerry Stackhouse (13.9 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.0 apg in 26 games)
C Shawn Bradley (3.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 66 games)
Change in team outlook: +5.7 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and -4.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
this trade handcuffs young harris and straps the mavs into the Kidd extravaganza of "is he healthy?", "does he have 5 years left?", "Is he worth all that dough at this point in his career?"....no thanks...the money is the ender.

sike
09-15-2004, 08:28 AM
max said: The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.
no one who costs around 100 mil can ever have their name an the word "cheap" in the same sentence

FilthyFinMavs
09-15-2004, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by: Max Power
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

I agree. If he's going for Shareef than Cuban has to atleast attempt to bring in Kidd. If all you had to do was give up Henderson, Bradley, and Stack then i'd be on with it. The problem I see in this is I think we will see alot of this lineup:

Damp
Dirk
Finley
Terry
Kidd

I guess it's not that big of a concern but when I see Terry at the 2 it reminds me so much of Nick and how I disliked it.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: Max Power
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

I agree. If he's going for Shareef than Cuban has to atleast attempt to bring in Kidd. If all you had to do was give up Henderson, Bradley, and Stack then i'd be on with it. The problem I see in this is I think we will see alot of this lineup:

Damp
Dirk
Finley
Terry
Kidd

I guess it's not that big of a concern but when I see Terry at the 2 it reminds me so much of Nick and how I disliked it.


Terry at the 2? What about Daniels? We're not getting Kidd. We don't need to. The luxury of Terry and Harris is that they are cheap, especially in the latest market. If Harris's potential is a Kevin Johnson or Sam Cassell, just wait for it instead of drooling over a pg and his infamously bad injury.

V2M
09-15-2004, 09:56 AM
If he's fully healthy there's a better chance to get to the Finals with Kidd than the two we have now at PG.

But if he's not, then Kidd next year could be Webber of this year: An untradeable... 30-something... coming off a major knee surgery... with an ugly contract... whining Superstar!!

That's too big a risk for me... I'll just pass, until he clearly proves he's fully healthy.

FilthyFinMavs
09-15-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: Max Power
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

I agree. If he's going for Shareef than Cuban has to atleast attempt to bring in Kidd. If all you had to do was give up Henderson, Bradley, and Stack then i'd be on with it. The problem I see in this is I think we will see alot of this lineup:

Damp
Dirk
Finley
Terry
Kidd

I guess it's not that big of a concern but when I see Terry at the 2 it reminds me so much of Nick and how I disliked it.


Terry at the 2? What about Daniels? We're not getting Kidd. We don't need to. The luxury of Terry and Harris is that they are cheap, especially in the latest market. If Harris's potential is a Kevin Johnson or Sam Cassell, just wait for it instead of drooling over a pg and his infamously bad injury.

Ever since when did money become a concern? You have the chance to get the best point guard in the league? I'm sorry if i'm just a tad bit interested.

dalmations202
09-15-2004, 10:13 AM
I'd be interested, but probably wouldn't pull the trigger on this one.

If they are going to trade for a superstar, they need to trade for one that would move Fin back to the 2 where he belongs, IMO.

Dallas may have enough talent to get it done as it is, w/o any other changes.

u2sarajevo
09-15-2004, 10:24 AM
No way in heck would I trade for that albatross contract that is likely to spend the season riding the pine injured.

Say no to crack.

However, I wouldn't mind getting SAR.

dalmations202
09-15-2004, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
No way in heck would I trade for that albatross contract that is likely to spend the season riding the pine injured.

Say no to crack.

However, I wouldn't mind getting SAR.

SAR would just be PO'd here. He wants to play PF, and no way he gets more than 10-12 min a game behind Dirk. He will get more minutes behind Zach in Portland than he would here. Say no to Kidd and SAR (unless you can get Kidd for next to nothing).


I think they should do it, if this is the trade scenerio.

Dallas trades: PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 6.8 minutes)
C Calvin Booth (4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.4 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and +7.6 apg.

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PG Dan Dickau (2.2 ppg, 0.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 43 games)
C Calvin Booth (4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 71 games)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
Change in team outlook: -4.4 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and -7.6 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Not that this will EVER happen. But at least they get a PF, a PF/C, and a point to replace Kidd..............

bernardos70
09-15-2004, 01:57 PM
That's like me doing an even exchange, trading in my '93 tercel for a '04 evo. They're both cars.......

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: Max Power
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

I agree. If he's going for Shareef than Cuban has to atleast attempt to bring in Kidd. If all you had to do was give up Henderson, Bradley, and Stack then i'd be on with it. The problem I see in this is I think we will see alot of this lineup:

Damp
Dirk
Finley
Terry
Kidd

I guess it's not that big of a concern but when I see Terry at the 2 it reminds me so much of Nick and how I disliked it.


Terry at the 2? What about Daniels? We're not getting Kidd. We don't need to. The luxury of Terry and Harris is that they are cheap, especially in the latest market. If Harris's potential is a Kevin Johnson or Sam Cassell, just wait for it instead of drooling over a pg and his infamously bad injury.

Ever since when did money become a concern? You have the chance to get the best point guard in the league? I'm sorry if i'm just a tad bit interested.

Since Cuban openly stated that if we had resigned Nash, then we would not have been able to have acquired Dampier.

Max Power
09-15-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by: sike
this trade handcuffs young harris

I don't care about Harris yet. All he has is potential. He hasn't done it in the NBA yet and Kidd has. And if Harris is THAT special then Kidd can move to offguard.


and straps the mavs into the Kidd extravaganza of "is he healthy?", "does he have 5 years left?", "Is he worth all that dough at this point in his career?"....no thanks...the money is the ender.

Has Cuban EVER had a problem with moving a bad contract? Name one bad contract that has stuck with the team. I maintain that he has kept TAW for the insurance break - Cuban would have moved him long ago if the money was right.

FilthyFinMavs
09-15-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Originally posted by: Max Power
The ball is officially in Cuban's court. If Kidd is really going for THAT cheap then the Mavs need to move.

I agree. If he's going for Shareef than Cuban has to atleast attempt to bring in Kidd. If all you had to do was give up Henderson, Bradley, and Stack then i'd be on with it. The problem I see in this is I think we will see alot of this lineup:

Damp
Dirk
Finley
Terry
Kidd

I guess it's not that big of a concern but when I see Terry at the 2 it reminds me so much of Nick and how I disliked it.


Terry at the 2? What about Daniels? We're not getting Kidd. We don't need to. The luxury of Terry and Harris is that they are cheap, especially in the latest market. If Harris's potential is a Kevin Johnson or Sam Cassell, just wait for it instead of drooling over a pg and his infamously bad injury.

Ever since when did money become a concern? You have the chance to get the best point guard in the league? I'm sorry if i'm just a tad bit interested.

Since Cuban openly stated that if we had resigned Nash, then we would not have been able to have acquired Dampier.


I'd love to see were Cuban stated that. If we resigned Nash and could've still gotten Damp for Najera and Laettner you mean to tell me Cuban wouldn't do it?

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 06:09 PM
Well if Cuban liked Nash so much, then he would've resigned him now wouldn't he? If money isn't an issue, why then is Nash not a Maverick?

FilthyFinMavs
09-15-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Well if Cuban liked Nash so much, then he would've resigned him now wouldn't he? If money isn't an issue, why then is Nash not a Maverick?


I'm pretty sure it was because of the years Nash wanted.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 06:23 PM
Well regardless, getting back on topic....aside from the money, it's just a fact that players aren't the same after that type of knee surgery.....Webber, Najera, Mash.....Now if Kidd were healthy, I wouldn't care. He isn't, and could miss most of not all of next season.

Max Power
09-15-2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Well if Cuban liked Nash so much, then he would've resigned him now wouldn't he? If money isn't an issue, why then is Nash not a Maverick?

Cuban liked Nash but only at a certain dollar figure and years. Kidd is different because he is a FAR better point than Nash ever could be.

Just because you won't pay $3 a pound for hamburger doesn't mean you won't pay $4 a pound for t-bone.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by: Max Power

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
Well if Cuban liked Nash so much, then he would've resigned him now wouldn't he? If money isn't an issue, why then is Nash not a Maverick?

Cuban liked Nash but only at a certain dollar figure and years. Kidd is different because he is a FAR better point than Nash ever could be.

Just because you won't pay $3 a pound for hamburger doesn't mean you won't pay $4 a pound for t-bone.

LOL that's a matter of opinion. Kidd is only better then Nash in Defense and rebounding, which is a big reason why Cuban didn't resign him. However, Nash is a FAR better shooter, both field-goal and three point. I also would give him the torch in slashing and quickness over Kidd.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 06:43 PM
3 dollars for a hamburger or 4 dollars for a t-bone? Yikes.

FilthyFinMavs
09-15-2004, 06:45 PM
"Kidd is only better then Nash in Defense and rebounding,"



And this is bad because.......?

DevinHarriswillstart
09-15-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
"Kidd is only better then Nash in Defense and rebounding,"



And this is bad because.......?

Becuase it's hard to do those two things on crutches.

Poindexter Einstein
09-15-2004, 07:24 PM
One factor to ponder: A semi-injured Kidd, who isnt playing that well, whining about minutes and his role, and making the team adjust to HIM.

Think about Webber last year, and how the Kings went completely backwards when he "returned" from the same sort of injury.

The severity of the operation and rehab will give a major star a sense of entitlement, that he is owed minutes for his valor at working hard to return.

This is a train wreck waiting to happen, for whoever is suckered into taking him.

No thanks, no how, no way, in my book.

Bayliss
09-15-2004, 08:08 PM
I agree PE.

If Kidd was healthy, I wouldn't have a problem trading for him. In fact, I think he would do wonders for Dirk and the Mavs offense because Kidd is perhaps the most unselfish point guard in the league. He sets up teammates for scoring opportunities better than anyone else in the league.

But, he is on the descent of his career as we speak. And he has to come back from surgery. He is a "Grant Hill" waiting to happen. And the Mavs cannot be stuck with even the risk of that.

(With Terry and Harris, you will probably not get a superstar. But their "production" combined will equal Kidd's. And that is all that we should ask of those two. To be on par combined with the best point guard (healthy) in the league. A great point guard is not a necessity for winning it all. The last team that had a great point guard was the Pistons in 89-90. And before them, it was the Sonics in 79. 3 times in 25 years is a trend. Great point guards are a luxury. Defense and "pecking order-offense" are keys. The most important keys.)

MrPink
09-15-2004, 11:42 PM
um wow. things are in the early stages of this 'proposed' deal, he isn't coming to the Mavs and thats a good thing, but really the most definate statement that can be made by any of this news is: Jason Kidd's value has hit ROCK BOTTOM.

MavKikiNYC
09-16-2004, 05:21 AM
Wonder if Brooklyn native Telfair would figure into the deal at all as part of the return for Kidd?

FilthyFinMavs
09-16-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Wonder if Brooklyn native Telfair would figure into the deal at all as part of the return for Kidd?

He's gotta be. I just can't see the Blazers having Telfair, Stoudamire, Nick and Kidd at the point. They'd have the best point guard tandem in the league but that is were most of their talent on their team is playing. If i'm the Nets i'm somehow trying to get Nick and Shareef. I'm not sure how the NETS are going to get that much salary to trade back to the Blazers though.

sike
09-16-2004, 10:20 AM
Has Cuban EVER had a problem with moving a bad contract? Name one bad contract that has stuck with the team. I maintain that he has kept TAW for the insurance break - Cuban would have moved him long ago if the money was right.
steve nash is proof that the old ways just did not work...no more rediculous deals for Cuban.

the new Cubes is much more concerned with the future of his team and the money he spends being smart money than the old Cuban which you are commenting on.

Max, I cannot believe how blinded by love of Kidd that you cannot see how bad this could be for the Mavs...just one little knee injury and this guy(who will miss much of the season already) is a 90+million dollar load sitting at the end of the bench is a nice suit.

fin4life
09-16-2004, 10:48 AM
These Portland rumors come as a huge relief to me... but also kinda scare me. I am relieved becasue it sounds as if the mavs are finally out of the Jason Kidd sweepstakes!! It worries me because Kidd can really help out the blazers (assumiong they clear out a PG or 2). The good news, it will only help the blazers for a few years.

Also, I dont think that telfair can be sent to the nets until December 15.... BUT the blazers may not mind waiting because that is about the time that Kidd will start playing. Considering that staudamire's contract ends this year, and they could get rid of telfair... the kidd deal is starting to make sense. I just wonder is New Jersey will be able to fill any seats without Kidd... then again they must not care if they are moving to brooklyn.

FilthyFinMavs
09-16-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by: sike

Has Cuban EVER had a problem with moving a bad contract? Name one bad contract that has stuck with the team. I maintain that he has kept TAW for the insurance break - Cuban would have moved him long ago if the money was right.
steve nash is proof that the old ways just did not work...no more rediculous deals for Cuban.

the new Cubes is much more concerned with the future of his team and the money he spends being smart money than the old Cuban which you are commenting on.

Max, I cannot believe how blinded by love of Kidd that you cannot see how bad this could be for the Mavs...just one little knee injury and this guy(who will miss much of the season already) is a 90+million dollar load sitting at the end of the bench is a nice suit.

How is missing a month of basketball considered much of the season? He'd be missing sixteen games if he is to return in December. I don't think we should trade our whole team for the guy but if all we had to do is give up Stack, Bradley, and Henderson i'd be on board for it.

V2M
09-16-2004, 11:10 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By IAN O'CONNOR
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: September 16, 2004)


The Nets' interest in trading Jason Kidd has moved the Knicks closer to exchanging Kurt Thomas for Wally Szczerbiak, according to several NBA sources.

In a three-way scenario shaped by the Minnesota Timberwolves' desire to land Kidd, the Knicks would send Thomas to the Nets and end up with Minnesota's Szczerbiak and New Jersey's Aaron Williams. The Nets also would land the Timberwolves' Sam Cassell and Ervin Johnson as compensation for shipping out Kidd, who is coming off knee surgery and has $90 million left on the $103 million contract he signed last summer.

Isiah Thomas has little love for Kurt Thomas' game and has coveted Szczerbiak, a Long Island native who has long expressed his desire to play for his hometown team. But even though the pure-shooting Szczerbiak would give the Knicks insurance against Allan Houston's knee problems, Minnesota is the team driving this potential deal.

Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor has charged his GM, Kevin McHale, to acquire Kidd, according to an NBA executive involved in the talks, and the Nets' All-Star point guard has told management he would accept a trade to Minnesota. With Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles jettisoned in the purge ordered by new owner Bruce Ratner, and with the Nets staring at a series of bleak lame-duck seasons in the Meadowlands before moving to Brooklyn, Kidd wants out in the worst way.

"But is anyone willing to take him and the $90 million after knee surgery?" said one NBA executive with knowledge of the talks. "I wouldn't buy a racehorse that couldn't run, even if it was the greatest racehorse of all time."

Minnesota apparently believes a Kidd-Kevin Garnett-Latrell Sprewell combination would win a Western Conference race left wide open by the dismantling of the Lakers. The Timberwolves talked to the Trail Blazers about acquiring Shareef Abdur-Rahim, whom McHale could've traded to the Nets for Kidd (Abdur-Rahim and Nets coach Lawrence Frank have a good relationship stemming from their time together in Vancouver). Portland also talked directly to the Nets about a Kidd-for-Abdur-Rahim exchange, with the Nets inquiring about the Blazers' No. 1 pick, Brooklyn high school star Sebastian Telfair.

But the Blazers aren't sure Kidd would guarantee them a top playoff seed in the West, and right now don't want to pay $180 million (including luxury-tax charges) to find out. That leaves Minnesota to pick up the ball and search for willing trade partners who can make something work with the Nets.

To take on Szczerbiak and Williams, the Knicks would have to rid themselves of another salary in addition to Thomas'. Isiah Thomas is hoping against hope to convince someone to take Moochie Norris or Shandon Anderson off his hands.

"This deal is within the realm of possibility," confirmed an official familiar with Isiah Thomas' thinking. "But when you have this many players and contracts involved, so many things can change."

Note: The Nets waived veteran guard Lucious Harris, one of Kidd's closest friends on the team, but his departure was long anticipated. Harris is believed to have accepted a $1 million buyout of the remaining $2.6 million on his contract.


Send e-mail to Ian O'Connor



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FilthyFinMavs
09-16-2004, 11:15 AM
That move could make or break the T-Wolves. They give up Cassell who arguably had his best season as a player last season and get Kidd who could either be the best point guard in the league or have a Chris Webber-like season. If they do land Kidd I think you would have to call the T-Wolves favorites to win it all. They'd have two of the best players in the league along with Sprewell and Troy Hudson.

fin4life
09-16-2004, 11:36 AM
Cassel's stock is at his highest value right now... but he still might be a better deal than kidd, becasue he makes less than half the money. I made a thread about his rumor on the Trade and Draft Board a few minutes ago (before i saw it posted here). I proposed a trade but it didnt really work out for all the teams.

alby
09-16-2004, 12:28 PM
kidd garnett and spree would be scary because they excel both in the half court and transition games..

alby
09-16-2004, 12:28 PM
where has all the peja talk gone? does anyone know if peja and the kings organization have worked out their differences?

dalmations202
09-16-2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by: alby
where has all the peja talk gone? does anyone know if peja and the kings organization have worked out their differences?

I have been reading everything I can, and the talk has dropped off the map from both sides. He is the one player that I think would put the Mavs over the top, as long as Dirk, Damp, and Terry are not part of the trade that would get him here.

alby
09-16-2004, 12:33 PM
thats exactly what i was thinking dalm.. maybe the front office and peja have worked things out.. but what about cwebb and peja? =]

terry
fin
peja
dirk
damp

wow.

dalmations202
09-16-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by: alby
thats exactly what i was thinking dalm.. maybe the front office and peja have worked things out.. but what about cwebb and peja? =]

terry
fin
peja
dirk
damp

wow.

Or Terry, Stack, Peja, Dirk, Damp.....or Terry, Daniels, Peja, Dirk, Damp.....or even Terry, Howard, Peja, Dirk, Damp.....

Any of those four lineups would kick a@#................So you could trade any two of them and still have your backup. Stack/Howard for Peja works perfectly, and even makes lots of sense to both parties (if Sac is pressured to move Peja). Of course, if I am Sac, I don't move Peja to the Mavs because that would make them easily the top team in the league, IMO.

fin4life
09-16-2004, 12:40 PM
I think that peja has decided to play the next season... then opt out. He has said that he would like to be traded... but he would honor his contract if he had to. I think he would become a restricted FA... but he would tell the kings not to match any offer or find a way to do a sign and trade. Im sure that he will be recieving close to MAX money if he become a FA

fin4life
09-16-2004, 12:41 PM
double post

alby
09-16-2004, 12:45 PM
u think peja would recieve max money for being one dimensional?

what if he reunites with vlade and resigns with the lakers next year?

pointguard
kobe
peja
odom
vlade

actually, vlade might retire lol..

fin4life
09-16-2004, 12:59 PM
yes, i do think he will get near max money. This is a guy who finished second i the league in scoring and is the unquestioned best shooter in the league. He is no more one-dementional than ray allen, walker, abdur-rahim, or Finley. All of those guys got max money.

alby
09-16-2004, 01:07 PM
good point, you can add allan houston to the list as well..

dalmations202
09-16-2004, 01:31 PM
I think some team will Max him.

MavKikiNYC
10-08-2004, 09:47 AM
Thread should be re-titled "Jason Kidd Trade Countdown Thread".

Really disappointed to see him taking this approach, no matter how much one can understand his frustration with what's happened to the Nets. I really would've expected him to keep his mouth shut and not make waves, so the Nets could work out a deal for him.


Kidd Takes Another Shot at Nets
By JASON DIAMOS

Published: October 8, 2004

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J., Oct. 7 - The first week of training camp is not over and the Nets' best player, Jason Kidd, has sounded off twice.

On Thursday, the issue was whether Kidd, who is rehabilitating his left knee, should attend the evening sessions of Coach Lawrence Frank's two-a-day practices.

"It was no misunderstanding," Kidd said when asked why he had not attended evening sessions on Tuesday and Wednesday. "I don't come at night - with permission or without permission. That's up to them if they want to fine me."

The 31-year-old Kidd said that neither he nor his agent, Jeff Schwartz, had been contacted by the Nets about a fine. The Nets held only one practice session Thursday. On Friday, they will resume their two-a-day workouts.

On Monday, Kidd disclosed his displeasure with the direction the Nets have taken since they were bought by the real estate developer Bruce C. Ratner. Over the summer, the Nets traded Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles, two key components of a team that has won three consecutive Atlantic Division titles.

Neither Frank nor Rod Thorn, the Nets' chief executive, would comment on whether Kidd would be fined for missing the evening practices.

"We have team rules, like everybody else, which all players are expected to comply with," Thorn said Thursday in a telephone interview.

Frank said: "Everyone's expected to be here. But our focus right now is the guys on the floor."

Kidd, who was examined on Wednesday by Dr. David Altchek, said it would be at least three weeks before he would be re-examined.

"I'm not playing," Kidd said. "I'm hurt. I'm rehabbing. Don't let things get confused here. I don't come at night because I'm rehabbing. I'm not sitting here for three hours to watch practice. Me sitting here for three hours is not helping me rehab."

mary
10-08-2004, 09:51 AM
I guess the Frank/Kidd honeymmoon has officially ended.

dalmations202
10-08-2004, 12:05 PM
I really don't understand the Kidd- Shareef idea --- at least not without a third party involved.

Portland has way too much $$$$ tied up in PG's already would trade for an over the hill one making more? ? ?
Doesn't really make sense, even if Kidd is the best PG out there, and wasn't coming off surgery.

MavKikiNYC
10-08-2004, 12:43 PM
I don't necessarily see Portland as the most likely deal, D202, but it's looking increasingly like Kidd is maneuvering to force a deal.

My guess is that at this stage in his career, he'd want to go to a contender--Minnesota, San Antonio, Dallas, Miami, perhaps.

dalmations202
10-08-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
I don't necessarily see Portland as the most likely deal, D202, but it's looking increasingly like Kidd is maneuvering to force a deal.

My guess is that at this stage in his career, he'd want to go to a contender--Minnesota, San Antonio, Dallas, Miami, perhaps.

Agreed. Minn might do the Cassell for Kidd deal, if Sam I am keeps acting like a jerk. That is probably the writing on the wall that Sam sees, and why he wants his money now. NJ would never pay him.

Just as an idea......................

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 36.5 minutes)
New Jersey receives: SG Wally Szczerbiak (10.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 22.2 minutes)
PG Sam Cassell (19.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.3 apg in 35.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +14.5 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -0.7 apg.

Minnesota trades: SG Wally Szczerbiak (10.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.2 apg in 22.2 minutes)
PG Sam Cassell (19.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 7.3 apg in 35.0 minutes)
Minnesota receives: PG Jason Kidd (15.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 9.2 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -14.5 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and +0.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Evilmav2
10-08-2004, 01:28 PM
it's looking increasingly like Kidd is maneuvering to force a deal.

Absolutely. I thought he might be up to something when I read that he was refusing to show up to training camp saying, "They want me to be here- and they have every right- but the best thing is to try to get healthy, rehab and push forward. That's my stance. Me sitting here for three hours is not helping me rehab".

So, Kidd can't ride a stationary bike during those three hours of practice? And Kidd can't do his rehab at a different time during the day (how many hours does he spend on his rehab anyway?). No... It looks to me like Kidd and his agent Arn Tellem have been trying to force a trade all Summer long, and now that the season's almost here, Kidd's disingenuous refusal to show up in camp is completely is predicated his desire to force a trade-forcing endgame that will get him out of New Jersey, and this Portland talk sure looks to me like a confirmation of that probability...

That said, I don't think the Mavs have the pieces anymore to execute a Kidd trade (I would guess that Laettner, Henderson, Howard + draft picks or cash, might have done it), and with cheap, young, and healthy Terry and Harris manning our PG spot, it's hard for me to imagine the braintrust trying to move mountains in any effort to bring the microfracture surgery repaired knee of Jason Kidd back to Dallas...

MavKikiNYC
10-09-2004, 07:58 PM
As they say, "Developing....."

KIDD ENDS HIS BOYCOTT OF PRACTICE

By FRED KERBER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

October 9, 2004 -- Jason Kidd ended his practice-session boycott.
Well, at least for one night.

Kidd, who was fined for missing at least one mandatory evening session, showed up for the Nets' get together last night, team CEO Rod Thorn said.

"Jason is here," Thorn confirmed as the Nets went through the evening drills. "I've said all that needs to be said on the matter and I'm sure when Jason returns [to active duty], he will compete as he always has."

And that competition could eventually lead to a trade. Team sources again insisted that Kidd, while issuing no demands, has made it clear that he'd prefer to be elsewhere following the summertime dismantling of the Nets, which included the fire-sale giveaways of Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles.

Kidd told the Nets, sources said, that he would prefer to be moved to Dallas, Minnesota, San Antonio or surprise Denver. Kidd could transform the Nuggets into Nets-West; they've already pilfered Martin via the ill-advised cost-cutting measures ordered by new owner Bruce Ratner.

So Kidd, who has $90.42 million coming over the next five years, was miserable about the moves. He wants out but coming off major knee surgery, his trade value is exceedingly low. He has to prove himself before the Nets can talk about moving him. When the Nets began talks with the Blazers about a possible deal for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kidd reportedly told team brass he flat out wanted no part of Portland.

But Kidd resumed his good-soldier act last night.

Thorn admitted that having Kidd last night was good for the team, noting, "Jason certainly is an integral part of our team, a leader, and you're always happy to see that."

Kidd irritated team brass by missing Tuesday's evening session. The 31-year-old All-Star has been a regular at the morning workouts that take place before his daily rehab routine. He stayed away Tuesday night, though, later claiming there was no need for him to be there to just sit and watch. The team issued $2,500 fines for the first two sessions missed and $5,000 for each one after that. One source insisted Kidd was fined at least $10,000 but it was unclear which sessions he had missed beyond Tuesday. Kidd suggested on Thursday that he would not be at the evening workouts but obviously, he did an about face last night.

Coach Lawrence Frank did not want to discuss the matter last night.

"We're not going to talk about injured players," Frank said. "We're going to talk about the players on the floor."

The Nets have been auditioning three of those players Travis Best, Zoran Planinic and Jacque Vaughn, to hold down the fort for Kidd, who said this week he hopes to be on the working on the court within a month. Frank said right now he has "no clue" who his starter would be, but noted Planinic has shown a remarkable boost in confidence and displayed a better command of the system. Vaughn has "natural leadership skills," the coach said, while the veteran Best "is known and has done it."