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LAM0015
03-21-2001, 09:31 AM
here's a list of players in the eastern conference that have shot virtually as well or better than finley this year. this is only taking into consideration 2point percentage and three point percentage. luckily for finley, we didn't take into account free throw percentage.
all of these players get a significant amount of time at the 2-guard spot. some of them play point guard and forward also., but so does finley..

Ray Allen
Vince Carter
Allen Houston
Reggie Miller
Dana Barros (PG-SG)
Jason Terry (PG-SG)
Fred Hoiberg
Eddie Jones
Hubert Davis
i'll break down the western conference for you later...just thought you'd like to know.

don't forget, take into account two point and three point percentage and attempts from two point and three point land....take all of this into consideration before you gripe too much back

And guess what, i think finley's a very good all around player. better than most of these guys. i've never said that he wasn't...i just said that he needs to shoot a bit less
chow

TheKid
03-21-2001, 09:48 AM
This means nothing because only ONE of the players on this list average more than Mike. So I tell you what, you take all the guys on that list because they shoot better and I'll take Mike because he's a scorer.

TheKid
03-21-2001, 09:51 AM
I'm sorry two of them.. Ray Allen averages one more point than Mike.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 10:59 AM
the only reason mike averages more points is because he takes a considerable amount of shots more than the other guys.
i wasn't comparing who was the scores more...i was comparing who is the better shooter.....
it is so amazing that you can argue from the stance you are taking. it's amazing...
i'm not saying that michael finley isn't a good all around player..that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying that there are many 2 guards in the NBA that are more effective shooters than he is. that is all i'm saying. i'm not saying that he doesn't score 21 points a game because he does. i'm also saying that other players around the league score more points per attempt than he does (from the 2-guard position).that's all i'm saying..and it's true. you can't argue because it is true. there's no arguing that statistic. it is true. i'm not saying that you can get a feel for finley's complete game by that one statistic, because you can't.

LonestarROB
03-21-2001, 11:01 AM
"I'm saying that there are many 2 guards in the NBA that are more effective shooters than he is."

Now I totally agree with you there.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 11:16 AM
trust me, i'm not trying to say that finley isn't valuable to the mavs, i'm just making a point about him not being that great of a shooting 2-guard. i'm also saying that i think finley's main strengths should come from other things than scoring..that maybe it would be better for him to take a 2-3 less shots a game in exchange for a bigger role in running the offense...(now, you can argue with that..that's just my opinion)... but i'm not trying to say that fin isn't a good player...that's not it at all. it's just amazing, people aren't allowed to say one negative thing about him without being accused of being fin hating. trust me, i'm sure we could find things in anyone's game that need some improvement or that could be done otherwise.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 11:18 AM
finley probably isn't within the top 15-20 shooting 2-guards in the NBA.. but, i think he's probably a top 5 all around 2-guard though. By saying that, am i saying anything bad against finley? no, of course not, so don't take it that way
thanks
bye

TheKid
03-21-2001, 11:22 AM
You never heard me say he was the best two guard, you never heard me say that there weren't any better than him either. I even said in an earlier post, despite having a bad year, Reggie Miller is more of a threat than Mike. You started antagonizing him saying how terrible he is, and I'm telling you, he's as affective as any other two guard in the NBA. What he's done for this team is a GREAT thing. For example has Stackhouse made Detroit better? NO, but he's better from the field statistically. That's my point and NOT everyone could come to Dallas and work well with in the system and let players like Dirk and Nash flourish and still pick their spots to still do their thing. Do I think Kobe would be able to do that, NO. Do I think Vince would do that, just ask Tracy McGrady. So while you give Mike his props saying he's an all around player, you continue to say "BUT" he doesn't do such and such. Like I said, does he have some improving to do in his game, HELL YES, but right now, he's one of the BEST two guards in the NBA!!!

The Crippler
03-21-2001, 11:34 AM
obsessive compulsion is a bad thing Lameo, and it seems to me that you are obsessed with this topic...seek help or talk about something new please.

Hales233
03-21-2001, 11:44 AM
Crippler, you are officially our resident comedian now...Congratulations....you crack me up man i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 11:49 AM
crippler, i apologize for any personal attacks i might have had earlier towards you...but i would appreciate it if every time i had a post, that you wouldn't feel the need to say something derogatory about me. I admit, maybe i was a bit immature with saying something negative about you. But, i have moved on in life. Do you think that you could do the same? if you don't like what I post. if you find me posting statistics offensive, then please talk with djbacklash. If not, you can disregard something that i write...if you have a valid sports point, that's great..go for it, i would love to hear what you have to say, but if it's just a personal attack, you can email me. if you would like to throw in a valid sports opinion with a personal attack, that would be ok, i don't mind that.

the kid, what did my post say? it said that i thought he was one of the top 5 shooting guards in the NBA. Is that bad? is that in any way saying anything negative about finley? yes, i agree he's one of the best 2-guards in the nba..i just said he was probably a top 5... Yes, i did point out some of his weaknesses. is there a problem with pointing out a weakness but at the same time saying that he's one of the top 2-guards in the NBA?
i think we all agree that all players have weaknesses. I'm sorry if it offended you that i pointed out fin's weakness (shooting). I apologize, i didn't know that pointing out that i think he's a top 5 shooting guard in the NBA would be offenisve to you either....

TheKid
03-21-2001, 12:06 PM
Lam, for starters I didn't say he was top two. Mav said from what he researched statistics wise he thought he was top two. Then changed and said top three. Now because I'm a big Finley fan, I said I agree that he is top three. Personally I don't think there are four shooting guards better than Finley, but that's my opinion.

Also you haven't heard me say anything about me being offended by what you post or anything along those lines. I don't have a problem with it, I think you focus a bit much on statistics but that's your thing. So no need to apologize to me because like I said a long time ago, I have no problem with people's opinions, I'm going to voice mine.

This is the one great thing about sports, everyone can have an opinion.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 12:13 PM
well, i don't think he's a top three...i do think he's a top 5 though. all-around, that is. i think he does need to shoot less...and i think his shoooting percentages back up my point...but i do think he's a wonderfully gifted basketball player. i think he's just better suited to shoot a bit less..and run the offense more..take some of the heat off of nash...and help to set up dirk and juwan. if he does this, i think he'll have better looks when he does shoot (which will increase his field goal percentage)..
and will make him a better all around player

The Crippler
03-21-2001, 12:24 PM
my "valid sports opinion" is that you need to move on and talk about something else besides Finley. Honestly, THIS TIME I was not trying to attack you, I was just pointing out that it is getting really old reading your opinions about Finley's deficiencies. Of course, I could just not read your posts, but I don't want to do that. Wait, you're not Scottie Pippen are you????i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif 'cause that would explain your feelings on Fin...

LonestarROB
03-21-2001, 12:32 PM
Yea man. You two obviously don't agree with each other, and that's fine. But it's getting to the point where your just saying basically the same things over and over. He's got his opinion, you've got yours, respect each others opinion(you don't have to agree) and move on. It's stupid just going back and forth, back and forth. Your not going to change each others mind.

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 01:26 PM
my opinions on fin?..why would me being scottie pippen explain my opinions on fin?
i said he's a top 5 2-guard in the NBA..but not one of the best shooters in the league at that position.
sure, i'll move on....as long as kid doesn't want to argue..but, if he does, then i'm afraid that i'll have to argue back.

TheKid
03-21-2001, 02:45 PM
I have a funny story for the board about the entire Pippen making those bad comments about Finley. Last year Pippen made some comments that Finley wasn't an all-star, something to that effect.

Anyway, Pippen has an obsession with houses, so last year when he traveled to Dallas he and his agent went to Cuban's house to see if Cuban would give him a tour of his place. Well when he came up to the door, Cuban opened the door and saw it was Pippen. Pippen introduced himself and told him why he was there and Cuban's response was, "I heard what you said about my player. Let me tell you something, Mike is twice the player you ever were, so if you don't get off of my property I'm going to call the cops!" Then slammed the door in his face.

This is a true story too.

djb
03-21-2001, 02:46 PM
I heard that Mark didn't even let him on his property. Pippen supposedly got rejected at the intercom outside the entrance gate.

Evilmav2
03-21-2001, 02:47 PM
Hahahaha... that's the best story I've heard in a while...

Hoover
03-21-2001, 02:54 PM
That is too damn funny!

By the way LAM....are you trying to clean-up your image with the "Mother Teresa" icon...I like it!

LAM0015
03-21-2001, 02:59 PM
damn, i didn't know that people held me and scottie pippen in the same light... can't you see i'm a saint/angel/mother teresa.
well, i do have the b-ball skillz, but i don't have pippen's nose.

I never knew that you people had a negative image associated with me.

Evilmav2
03-21-2001, 04:22 PM
Evilmav likes your image makeover too, LAM...

Mavs#1Fan
03-21-2001, 07:25 PM
I never said Finley was in the top 2, I said he was NOT in the top 2 (those were Carter and Kobe). I made the case he was the THIRD best shooting guard. After my research I discovered that Iverson was now considered a shooting guard so I said that Finley was NOT in the top 3. I agree with LAM0015 that Finley is in the top 5 at shooting guard.

Not trying to start anything, just making sure the record is straight.

TheKid
03-22-2001, 09:27 AM
My bad Mav, you did say that. I personally think he's one of the top three point guards in the NBA, that is putting Allen Iverson at point guard.