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View Full Version : ...and finally, the PG's


dirno2000
09-22-2004, 10:36 PM
Link (http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/7708485)

1. Jason Kidd, New Jersey Nets: He is 31 and his knee is a problem, but he's still the best at running an offense and his teammates love him.

2. Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 76ers: This will be the most interesting season for the most exciting guard in the league to prove he can run an offense.

3. Baron Davis, New Orleans Hornets: He is so gifted, and potentially better than any of these guys, but he's just too selfish too often.

4. Chauncey Billups, Detroit Pistons: When Joe Dumars signed him as a free agent, he saw a lot of himself in Billups. This season we'll find out.

5. Sam Cassell, Minnesota Timberwolves: Last season will be a tough act for him to follow, but if he does, the Timberwolves have a great shot to win the West.

6. Stephon Marbury, New York Knicks: Isiah Thomas invested the future of the Knicks and his own credibility in Marbury. Will he step up this year?

7. Steve Francis, Orlando Magic: It's impossible to know how getting traded will affect Francis, but he certainly has a lot to learn about running a team.

8. Mike Bibby, Sacramento Kings: Some might believe he should be higher in this ranking, but defensive shortcomings and unpredictability in big games linger.

9. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs: He could end up being the best of this group with his quickness and all-around ability, but only if he improves.

10. Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns: It appears age is catching up to him considering how he has tired the past couple of seasons. We'll see what he has left.

Also receiving consideration: Gary Payton, Boston Celtics; Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat; Gilbert Arenas, Washington Wizards; Andre Miller, Denver Nuggets; Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks; Jason Williams, Memphis Grizzlies; Carlos Arroyo, Utah Jazz; Eric Snow, Cleveland Cavaliers; Damon Stoudamire, Portland Trail Blazers.

Fidel
09-22-2004, 11:08 PM
As this is a PG list itīs probably the worst of all of Kahns lists. Iverson, Marbury and Francis are all too high. They canīt really run an offense and are more of combo guards anyways. Bibby, Parker and Nash should all be higher because they can run an offense. My list for PGīs would be something like this:

1. Kidd (when healthy)
2. Nash, Bibby, Cassell (I think they are on par as far as
true PGīs go with different strenghts and weaknesses).
5. Davis
6. Billups
7. Parker
8. Arroyo
9. J Will
10. Miller

If you want to sneak combo guards like Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Arenas or Wade in there theyīd get some of the low spots. Based on PG play they donīt make the list IMO.

EricaLubarsky
09-22-2004, 11:09 PM
hopefully Terry's strong year in Dallas will puch him from top 19 to top ten, but then, why would I care about a word this guy says. When A.I., who is an undersized superstar SG who is running out of gas gets the #2 spot on a list of top PGs, what legitimacy does he have?

Fidel
09-22-2004, 11:15 PM
None which was my point.

dirno2000
09-22-2004, 11:30 PM
My takeway from this list is the sorry state of the PG in the league. Most of the players with the talent don't know how to play the position, while the young guys aren't there yet. Like the centers, it's hard to come up with ten true and efficient pg's. I'd use Fidel's list, but stop it at #4.

Too bad TJ may never play again...he's as pure as they come.

seal614
09-22-2004, 11:56 PM
Erica it seems you know very little about Iverson.

undersized? yes
superstar? yes
SG? No, he came into this league as a point and THANK GOD he is making the switch back.
Running out of gas? ??? No sorry averaging 30, 8, and 2 isn't running out of gas in my book

Iverson has plenty of legitimacy at the 1 spot... as you'll see this year.

What other "SGs" pick up 7assists playing exclusively at the 2? Hell look at AI's rookie stats when he was actually playing point gaurd.

I won't say anything more, just wait till the season starts; he was averging 30 and 11 for the first 2-3 months last year and will extend that this year.

- Brian

[EDIT] I will, however, admit that #2 is still too high for AI. That is a sketchy call without even 1 game played. My list:

1.) Kidd
2.) Cassell
3.) Marbury
continue on down --

Wade and Francis truly are combo gaurds... who knows if their coach will realize it.

dirk2003
09-23-2004, 12:25 AM
My list


1 Bibby
2 Baron
3 Kidd
4 Nash
5 Cassel
6 AI
7 Marbury
8 Parker
9 Billups
10 Terry

Francis sucks....

Fidel
09-23-2004, 12:26 AM
Well seal, up until last year Iverson didnīt average more then 5.5 assists for five straight years. In fact he averaged around 5 during that stretch, along with 3.8 toīs. This is one of the worst ast/to ratios among all guards. Last year he averaged 6.8 ast but also had 4.5 toīs. He also shot a career low .387 from the field. To me AI is one of the most overrated players in the league. He canīt shoot, he canīt run an offense. What heīs got going for him is his fearlessness, quickness and a knack for going to the line. But thatīs it. He surely is not a pure point at all.

And if you think that Marbury should be NR.3 on the list you probably did miss most of the Olympic games this year and also didnīt catch much of Knicks or Suns or Nets action in recent years. A true PG makes the people around him better, despite his assist numbers Marbury does the exact opposite.

dirk2003
09-23-2004, 12:28 AM
What was it? 2 of 21? HAHA

seal614
09-23-2004, 01:09 AM
Fuck deleted my entire response... the gist:

You're wrong AI IS a point gaurd; as you will see.

The "purest" pgs who avg 4-5 apg like Parker and Bibby should not be very high on a list like this. As the whole basis of a list is numbers.

The most important point I was trying to make: If you are honestly going to judge any of the U.S. players from their performance in Athens you really should not post it here b/c it makes you look like a fool... and there are a million reasons you should disregard their play over there... good or bad.

seal614
09-23-2004, 01:09 AM
The other point was that Marbury is averaging 9apg on the KNICKS. Tell me, who would YOU pass it to for 9 dimes on a team like that? How do you make the Knicks better? I surely would like to know.... and passing it to Houston on the bench doesn't count.

- Brian

* how do you overrated somebody who single-handedly took his team to the Finals? AND broke the LAKERS win streak in LA. I'm having a tough time realizing how overrated he really is. MVP? Was that not deserved? Or does it just mean very little to you? Granted he has fallen off a bit but over his career AI has done some incredible things.

EricaLubarsky
09-23-2004, 01:13 AM
the phillie fan strikes again....

The "purest" pgs who avg 4-5 apg like Parker and Bibby should not be very high on a list like this. As the whole basis of a list is numbers.
says who? It's about the best point guard. The point guard is the position that runs the offense, and so the player that can run the offense best is the best point guard.


You're wrong AI IS a point gaurd; as you will see.
After 8 years Im not sure what else he has to show. It isnt like he's a new kid on the block.

how do you overrated somebody who single-handedly took his team to the Finals
you don't but you consider him as what he is: an allstar SG who is past his prime.

seal614
09-23-2004, 01:14 AM
got me

[EDIT] you will see what he can do when switched back to the PG position... but then again what was this whole conversation about? Nothing at all! There's nothing new about AI at all this year. You know what they say position, shmosition.

AI has just BARELY passed his prime, unlike say Finley (ouch). Yes AI > Finley. I hope you'll understand. Then again I really don't... I want to see how ridiculous you truly are as a Mavericks fan. You know.... the usual... "Shawn Bradley the hidden gem" etc...

- Brian

alby
09-23-2004, 01:59 AM
bibby at #1 wtf?! u must be joking, yes?

bernardos70
09-24-2004, 12:30 AM
A case could be made for Bibby. And I don't see AI as a PG. If he is, he's a shoot first, shoot second,, look to pass shoot fourth.

dirk2003
09-24-2004, 01:18 AM
Bibby is number one. He has a great outside shot, runs the floor, gets his team mates involved, runs the best offense in the league, gets inside and scores on will... he really does it all.

grndmstr_c
09-24-2004, 02:02 AM
Bibby's too low, no doubt, but he's about as bad as Nash defensively, so I really couldn't come close to justifying putting him at #1. 4th behind Kidd, Davis, and Cassell sounds about right to me.

poohrichardson
09-24-2004, 03:22 AM
Here's my list:
1.) Jason Kidd (if he gets back to even 75% he's still the best point guard in the league)
2.) Baron Davis (he's my dark horse favorite to win the MVP this year. I think if he even gets the Hornets to the postseason it will be an incredible feat)
3.) Sam Cassell (a much better scorer/shooter than Kidd, or Bibby for that matter. And he's a solid defender when he's at 100%)
4.) Steve Nash (the best distributor in the league besides J-Kidd.. he needs fewer minutes to stay effective all season though)
5.) Tony Parker (is he the best penetrator of this group? An argument could be made, for sure..)
6.) Jason Williams (remember how many more jerseys he used to sell before he actually started playing the game? I'd take him today over the highlight reel of yesteryear any day of the week)
7.) Dwayne Wade (proved he can bring it in any big game situation.. unlike some other point guards on the original list..)
8.) Andre Miller (with K Mart on the roster too now, he has so many weapons it's just going to be scary every time you see him getting ready to pass)
9.) Earl Boykins! (he's maybe the best 6th man in the league and is a huge reason the Nuggets made the playoffs last season. I REALLY wish Dallas would have found a way to trade for him. I can't say enough good things about him to do him justice)
10.) Jason Terry (probably shoots too much, but who did he have to help him in Atlanta besides Stephen Jackson? Now that he has scorers all around him, he'll be able to shoot less and pass more. I'm putting him this low just because it remains to be seen if he'll actually distribute as well as he has the potential to. I'm afraid that on such a high-scoring team, he's going to want to take shots to feel like he's contributing)

Bibby, Marbury, Iverson, Francis and Billups are too much combo guards for my liking. They're all good players, but not true point guards in my opinion.

If he's healthy all year round, Troy Hudson would be my 11th.

dirk2003
09-24-2004, 06:19 PM
LOL... Bibby is so underrated. He tears up nash everytime so how do you justify putting nash infront? Also, Cassel is breaking down.

seal614
09-24-2004, 07:39 PM
so is kidd...

dirk2003
09-24-2004, 08:48 PM
I put Bibby ahead of Kidd for the following reasons. Bibby's shot is far better, he is on a reasonable contract and he isn't injury prone.