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Usually Lurkin
04-19-2005, 03:45 PM
78 years old. Second oldest pope ever at election. Can we say "transition"? But maybe he'll live to be 120.

To listen to Reuters, he is planning to bring back the Inquisition, hates all things modern, and doesn't want to talk about things like poverty and sexual morality.
reuters link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=1&u=/nm/20050419/wl_nm/pope_dc)

u2sarajevo
04-19-2005, 03:53 PM
Why do Pope's change their name?

Smiles
04-19-2005, 04:05 PM
Let's hear it for Pope Benny!

This should get interesting!

capitalcity
04-19-2005, 04:07 PM
Why the funny outfits? Why a wafer instead of a broken loaf? Why can't people masturbate? or get divorced? or use birth control?
AND Why do catholics have to talk to a priest instead of confessing directly to god?

I got a lot of questions.

Windmill360
04-19-2005, 04:18 PM
Randy Galloway had something to say about it. He said that this was a "sign" for Dirk because this Pope is German and elected just as the play-offs are about to start.

BTW congratulations to Pope Benedict XVI.

MavKikiNYC
04-19-2005, 04:24 PM
This just in: The Dodge Dart has just been proclaimed the Official Car of Pontiffs.

mary
04-19-2005, 04:30 PM
Benedict is not my favorite Pope name.

I would've held out for Alexander, or Pius.

Usually Lurkin
04-19-2005, 05:21 PM
someone at another site suggested that since the last pope was John Paul, this one should've chosen George Ringo I.

Usually Lurkin
04-19-2005, 05:23 PM
I think the other Benedicts were famous for doing things like brokering peace after world war and for working to curtail hedonism in the clergy. Perhaps the name is symbolic of what this guy wants to do.

Rhylan
04-19-2005, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by: capitalcity
Why the funny outfits?

You know, I usually try not to make it any of my business to dissect the specific traditions of denominations or faiths that I'm not a part of, but I was thinking about this the other day.

All the news shows were talking about how John Paul II was such a rough and rugged dude, how when he was named cardinal he was miffed because he had to call off a canoeing trip, etc.

Then he gets stuck wearing what amounts to a dress for the last 27 years of his life. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Poor guy! There's dedication to the job at hand!! Anyway, I reckon wherever he's at now, he's wearing some jeans or maybe a nice pair of slacks.

My thinking is.. the traditions are important to lots of the folks who belong to the Catholic church. I'm not into ceremonial stuff in the least, so I don't get it. But if you dig it, go on witcho self. The Pope himself may not even like it that much, but if he's truly called to lead, he kinda has to carry that torch for the sake of the peoples.

u2sarajevo
04-19-2005, 06:09 PM
Does anyone know why Pope's change their name? If it's in honor of a past Pope... why? Why not make a name for yourself?

Smiles
04-19-2005, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by: capitalcity

AND Why do catholics have to talk to a priest instead of confessing directly to god?

I got a lot of questions.
I've been attending a weekly class at the catholic church I attend, and reading The Idiot's Guide to Catholicism. My family is Catholic, but I wasn't raised going to mass very often (only holidays, etc.). One thing I've learned is that since the meeting of the Second Vatican Council back in the 1960's, the catholic church no longer holds to the belief that you MUST go to a priest to receive forgiveness of sins. However, many people still hold to that tradition. Father Jim at Prince Of Peace Catholic Community in Plano explains the priest role something like this: When you sin against God, you sin against the "body of Christ" (phrase often used to describe a church body of believers). The priest is available to hear your confession and, as a human himself, to forgive you. He represents the body of Christ at large. Therefore, if a person feels the personal need to go to confession for this kind of forgiveness, then they have that option. It is no longer the church's doctrine that you must confess to a priest in order to receive God's forgiveness.


Why the funny outfits?
The outfits are the traditional garments worn in the 13th Century. The tradition "stuck".


Why a wafer instead of a broken loaf?
I think the tradition of using unleavened bread (wafer) is from a Jewish tradition. The Israelis' have celebrated the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" for thousands of years. Somehow the two traditions are linked, though I don't remember how. This is not a matter I've fully researched, so someone please fill in the blanks for me.


Why can't people masturbate?
Read the story of Onan in the Old Testament. Many religious groups teach that masterbation is sinful. Plenty of religious writers have also written that this story was taken out of context and that "Onan's sin" was mis-understood.


or get divorced?
Somewhere in the Bible, it says "God hates divorce". Well, who doesn't hate it?! I'm confident the church will slowly but surely alter their views on how divorcees are received and treated...


or use birth control?
Good question. Again, this is an area where the traditions and teachings of the church will grow.

UL, I understand that Popes do pick their names as an indication of their hearts' intentions for their role. Good call!

Smiles
04-19-2005, 06:15 PM
"WHAT'S IN A POPE'S NAME"

MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 4:11 p.m. ET April 19, 2005

VATICAN CITY - As soon as he said “yes” to being pope, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger made his first major decision: He chose a new name.

He was, of course, free to pick from any of his 264 predecessors, use his own first name or come up with something new.

Vatican-watchers will read the choice of Pope Benedict XVI like tea leaves, looking for clues to the spirit of his new papacy.

If Ratzinger was paying tribute to the last pontiff of that name, it could be interpreted as a bid to soften his image as the Vatican's doctrinal hard-liner.

Benedict XV, who reigned from 1914 to 1922, was a moderate following Pius X, who had implemented a sharp crackdown against doctrinal "modernism."

On the other hand, he may have been honoring Saint Benedict of Nursia, who was regarded as a strict disciplinarian and is the patriarch of Western monasticism. He is believed to have lived between 480 to 547 AD.

Tradition since 996
According to conclave ritual, the new pope gives his name to the cardinals while they are still gathered in the Sistine Chapel.

The name was first revealed to the world in the “Habemus papam” (“We have a pope”) announcement from the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica on Tuesday, shortly before Benedict XVI gave his first blessing.


AP file
Pope Benedict XV is seen in the undated photo. He served as head of the Catholic Church from 1914 to 1922.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the early church, most popes kept their own names, which accounts for such archaic appellations as Adeodatus, Formosus, Hyginus and Anastasius Bibliothecarius.

In the 20th century, three popes took the name Pius, one Benedict, one Paul, and one John.

In 1978, the newly elected patriarch of Venice, Albino Luciani, combined John and Paul to become the first John Paul in papal history. In deference to Luciani, who died after only 33 days in office, his successor became John Paul II.

Choosing a new name as pontiff did not become a tradition until 996, when Bruno, the first German pope, became known as Gregory V. Named after a pagan god, the 6th-century priest Mercury changed his name to John II upon becoming pope.

Over the centuries, the most popular name has been John. Twenty-three popes have taken the name of Jesus’ most beloved apostle, followed by 16 Gregories, 16 Benedicts (including the latest) and 13 Leos.

Benedict, which comes from the Latin for “blessing,” is one of a number of papal names of holy origin such as Clement (“mercy”), Innocent (“hopeful” as well as “innocent”) and Pius (“pious”).

The Associated Press contributed to this story.

Drbio
04-19-2005, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by: Usually Lurkin
someone at another site suggested that since the last pope was John Paul, this one should've chosen George Ringo I.

That is genius.




I'm not catholic, but I have to admit I've been watching this like an addict or something. The whole process is just amazing to me. That and the Pope is just a great man by default. I hope Pope Benedict is as good as John Paul II. He was an amazing man.

Big_Dog
04-19-2005, 06:25 PM
maybe they choose names from the apostles?(sorry if it's not spelled right)

Smiles
04-19-2005, 06:28 PM
"He was, of course, free to pick from any of his 264 predecessors, use his own first name or come up with something new."

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Cool.

u2sarajevo
04-19-2005, 06:29 PM
If I ever become Pope, I want to be known as <u>Pope Mavericks Rule I</u>.

Don_Didi
04-19-2005, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by: Usually Lurkin
I think the other Benedicts were famous for doing things like brokering peace after world war and for working to curtail hedonism in the clergy. Perhaps the name is symbolic of what this guy wants to do.

I'm afraid that's not exactly accurate. The one thing that the previous Benedictus intended to do, was to break with some of the previous pope's conservatism... but somehow that doesn't seem like a great link between him and Ratzinger. It seems to me he isn't exactly less conservative than JPII, to put it mildly. Either way we'll have to see, but I can't say I'm a big fan of this "decision by the holy spirit." Sheesh.

Don_Didi
04-19-2005, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by: Drbio

Originally posted by: Usually Lurkin
someone at another site suggested that since the last pope was John Paul, this one should've chosen George Ringo I.

That is genius.




I'm not catholic, but I have to admit I've been watching this like an addict or something. The whole process is just amazing to me. That and the Pope is just a great man by default. I hope Pope Benedict is as good as John Paul II. He was an amazing man.

I cannot agree. Jean-Paul II had great accomplishments in his life, there is no doubt about that, not a shred. He has also been responsible to a certain degree of great strife and misery, but yet no one wants to say it like it is, no, not when he's dead, oh good lord. To say a former member of the Hitlerjugend will be a great man by default really pushes it too far. Let's see what happens, and let history judge Joseph Ratzinger for who he really turned out to be.

Drbio
04-19-2005, 09:04 PM
Don_didi you moron....if I had said the opposite you would be here yanking your chubby to post the other way. Idiot. Thanks for cluttering another thread with your crap.

It is not Jean-Paul...it is John Paul. Moron. Clearly you have not done your research on Joseph Ratzinger. Had you read his story, took more than two seconds to key in on his forced service to his country (which he ran from at the risk of his life) and spent exactly the three additional seconds to comprehend the mans story and understand his accomplishments (like a two year old could do) then you would not have knee jerked your way into further idiocy. I swear...you make realclipsfan look like fricking Einstein.

Drbio
04-19-2005, 09:07 PM
I was surprised at the speed in which they picked him. I felt that he was the front runner all along or at least would be a huge player in the determination of the next pope. Obviously, the cardinals all respect him greatly.

Don_Didi
04-19-2005, 10:35 PM
Interesting observations, doc, really interesting. You do forget to mention however, that Ratzinger also served in the German army during the war, in an anti-aircraft unit. Now it may just be me, but escaping from the hitler youth (and of course that was mandatory, I know that full well) which posed great risk to himself, and then coolly joining the army... that seems like a contradiction to me. Might I kindly ask that you remove your head from the man's backside?

EDIT: Ah, and lest I forget, Jean-Paul is not incorrect, for you will surely know that this is the way the French write his name. It is no more incorrect than writing Johannes Paulus, or heck, writing Benedictus instead of Benedict. But of course, you know all this...

Fidel
04-19-2005, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by: Don_Didi

Originally posted by: Usually Lurkin
I think the other Benedicts were famous for doing things like brokering peace after world war and for working to curtail hedonism in the clergy. Perhaps the name is symbolic of what this guy wants to do.

I'm afraid that's not exactly accurate. The one thing that the previous Benedictus intended to do, was to break with some of the previous pope's conservatism... but somehow that doesn't seem like a great link between him and Ratzinger. It seems to me he isn't exactly less conservative than JPII, to put it mildly. Either way we'll have to see, but I can't say I'm a big fan of this "decision by the holy spirit." Sheesh.
While UL´s assumption was slighly off, you obviously don´t have a clue at all of what you´re talking about Didi. Benedict XV indeed was trying to broker peace a couple times during WWI. The two most important efforts came in 1914 slightly before and shortly after the outbreak of war, and in 1917. Unfortunatly the partys involved in the war all feared that Benedict might be biased in favor of the other ones and thus didn´t accept his peace proposals. But Benedict was a humanitarian and pacifist that´s for sure

Here´s a short passage from his first enzyklika "Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum" from November 1914:

3. But as soon as we were able from the height of Apostolic dignity to survey at a glance the course of human affairs, our eyes were met by the sad conditions of human society, and we could not but be filled with bitter sorrow. For what could prevent the soul of the common Father of all being most deeply distressed by the spectacle presented by Europe, nay, by the whole world, perhaps the saddest and most mournful spectacle of which there is any record. Certainly those days would seem to have come upon us of which Christ Our Lord foretold: "You shall hear of wars and rumours of wars - for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (Matt. xxiv, 6, 7). On every side the dread phantom of war holds sway: there is scarce room for another thought in the minds of men. The combatants are the greatest and wealthiest nations of the earth; what wonder, then, if, well provided with the most awful weapons modern military science has devised, they strive to destroy one another with refinements of horror. There is no limit to the measure of ruin and of slaughter; day by day the earth is drenched with newly-shed blood, and is covered with the bodies of the wounded and of the slain. Who would imagine as we see them thus filled with hatred of one another, that they are all of one common stock, all of the same nature, all members of the same human society? Who would recognize brothers, whose Father is in Heaven? Yet, while with numberless troops the furious battle is engaged, the sad cohorts of war, sorrow and distress swoop down upon every city and every home; day by day the mighty number of widows and orphans increases, and with the interruption of communications, trade is at a standstill; agriculture is abandoned; the arts are reduced to inactivity; the wealthy are in difficulties; the poor are reduced to abject misery; all are in distress.

4. Moved by these great evils, we thought it our duty, at the very outset of our Supreme Pontificate, to recall the last words of our Predecessor of illustrious and holy memory, and by repeating them once more to begin our own Apostolic Ministry; and we implored Kings and rulers to consider the floods of tears and of blood already poured out, and to hasten to restore to the nations the blessings of peace. God grant by His mercy and blessing, that the glad tidings the Angels brought at the birth of the divine Redeemer of mankind may soon echo forth as we His Vicar enter upon His Work: "on earth peace to men of good will" (Luke ii. 14). We implore those in whose hands are placed the fortunes of nations to hearken to Our voice. Surely there are other ways and means whereby violated rights can be rectified. Let them be tried honestly and with good will, and let arms meanwhile be laid aside. It is impelled with love of them and of all mankind, without any personal interest whatever, that We utter these words. Let them not allow these words of a friend and of a father to be uttered in vain.

Don_Didi
04-19-2005, 10:49 PM
You're right Fidel, I got that one confused with Pius XII. I stand corrected. (or rather I got them partly confused, just a mess all-around)

Ninkobei
04-19-2005, 11:17 PM
Woo hoo. mutual agreement ! good times fellas good times...

Usually Lurkin
04-20-2005, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by: Don_Didi
Interesting observations, doc, really interesting. You do forget to mention however, that Ratzinger also served in the German army during the war, in an anti-aircraft unit. Now it may just be me, but escaping from the hitler youth (and of course that was mandatory, I know that full well) which posed great risk to himself, and then coolly joining the army... that seems like a contradiction to me. Might I kindly ask that you remove your head from the man's backside?

escaping the Hitler youth, and coolly joining the army?
Don_Didi, I don't think you have your facts straight. I found this expert from the WSJ at the corner (http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/corner.asp):

Traunstein was also where Cardinal Ratzinger went through the harrowing years of Nazi rule and World War II. In his memoirs, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote that he was enrolled in the Nazi youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941, when membership was compulsory. He said he was soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood.
Two years later he was drafted into a Nazi antiaircraft unit as a helper, a common task for teenage boys too young to be soldiers. A year later he was released, only to be sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers.
He deserted the Germany army in May 1945 and returned to Traunstein -- a risky move, since deserters were shot on the spot if caught, or publicly hanged as examples to others. When he arrived home, U.S. soldiers took him prisoner and held him in a prisoner-of-war camp for several weeks. Upon his release, he re-entered the seminary.

mnmpeanut
04-20-2005, 12:36 PM
what's amazing to me is that i attended catholic school for 9 years but know so little about the history of the catholic church. while badgering us to be good and keep the sacraments, they ignored where these traditions started and why they're important.

i no longer consider myself catholic (nor particularly religious, for that matter), but have also found the pomp and circumstance surrounding the changing of popes very interesting.

for those who have questions as to the what, why, and how things are done in the catholic church, i have found a website that has helped me better understand the workings of the church:

Catholic Info. (http://www.newadvent.org/ )

kingrex
04-20-2005, 12:46 PM
Dumbest question candidate (as reported on MIke & MIke in the Morning):

MIKE: "Have you heard? They chose a new pope yesterday."

UNNAMED ESPN EMPLOYEE: "Is he catholic?"

Don_Didi
04-21-2005, 05:57 AM
@UL: So neither me nor Bio had our facts straight. LEt me point out though, that deserting from the German army wasn't as "dangerous" as some would have you believe. According to you rinformation, he escaped in May, and I would like to point out that many soldiers, regular and Waffen SS, simply ran at that point and before then. The vast majority were either taken prisoner by the Allies or found safe haven. I guess that makes them all courageous men. The fact remains, however, that the election of this pope was a controversial one, both because of his beliefs and his history. Time will tell whether it was a risk worth taking.

Usually Lurkin
04-21-2005, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by: Don_Didi
@UL: So neither me nor Bio had our facts straight. LEt me point out though, that deserting from the German army wasn't as "dangerous" as some would have you believe. According to you rinformation, he escaped in May, and I would like to point out that many soldiers, regular and Waffen SS, simply ran at that point and before then. The vast majority were either taken prisoner by the Allies or found safe haven. I guess that makes them all courageous men. The fact remains, however, that the election of this pope was a controversial one, both because of his beliefs and his history. Time will tell whether it was a risk worth taking.

He is controversial "because of his history" only for those who do not know his history. He's controversial "because of his beliefs" only for those who want the catholic church to change their theology. The speed with which he was elected suggests that within the church leadership, he's not very controversial at all.

sike
04-21-2005, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
If I ever become Pope, I want to be known as <u>Pope Mavericks Rule I</u>.

you have SO GOT MY VOTE!...and I'm a voting Cardinal....or at least I've seen a cardinal.

also...I don't think the passage on Onan Gen 39:4-10 in on the sin of masterbation...it appears that instead of masterbating...Onan "pulls out"....*sigh*....put that on a list of things I never thought I'd say on this forum.

madape
04-21-2005, 02:44 PM
http://www.catholicbusinessnetwork.net/images/vatican_seal.gifhttp://www.eggs.ab.ca/recipes/images/eggs_benedict_with_cheddar_sauce.gifhttp://www.catholicbusinessnetwork.net/images/vatican_seal.gif

Eggs Benedict is a dish consisting of slices of toast or halves of muffins (English muffins in American English) topped with poached eggs, smoked bacon or ham (traditionally back bacon, which in America is called Canadian bacon) and hollandaise sauce.

Stories differ as to the origins of the dish. The traditional story is that it was created in the 1920s for LeGrand Benedict, a financier, by the chef of Delmonico's restaurant in New York City after he complained there was nothing new on the menu. Other sources state it was created in 1894 by Oscar Tschirky, ma&icirc;tre d'h&ocirc;tel of the Waldorf-Astoria in Manhattan, for the broker Lemuel Benedict. A consensus of the origin theories argues against any link to the Benedictine order.

The dish is the source of American actor Dirk Benedict's stage name, supposedly adopted on the suggestion of his agent whilst searching for something more suitable for Hollywood than 'Niewoehner', his family name.

Eggs Benedict may have inspired McDonalds to create the Egg McMuffin breakfast sandwich, which approximates the dish by substituting scrambled egg for the poached egg, ham for the Canadian bacon, and a piece of cheese for the hollandaise sauce. Further, the traditional Eggs Benedict is open-faced, while the Egg McMuffin has the other half of the English muffin on top.

Usually Lurkin
04-21-2005, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by: madape
The dish is the source of American actor Dirk Benedict's stage name, supposedly adopted on the suggestion of his agent whilst searching for something more suitable for Hollywood than 'Niewoehner', his family name.

If elected, I'd have to go with Pope BA"Bad Attitude" Baracas I

Smiles
04-21-2005, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by: sike

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
If I ever become Pope, I want to be known as <u>Pope Mavericks Rule I</u>.

you have SO GOT MY VOTE!...and I'm a voting Cardinal....or at least I've seen a cardinal.

also...I don't think the passage on Onan Gen 39:4-10 in on the sin of masterbation...it appears that instead of masterbating...Onan "pulls out"....*sigh*....put that on a list of things I never thought I'd say on this forum.
Yikes! I guess I need to clarify!! I was NOT endorsing the flawed belief that masterbation is sin!! I was merely explaining what basis some religious leaders use for teaching against the practice. But geez, thanks for stating your understanding of those scriptures. I don't know exactly why the Catholic church is predominantly known for teaching that the practice is sin - just offering an idea.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif Good Lord! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Hope we didn't make Pope Benny uncomfortable! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

twelli
04-22-2005, 01:49 AM
the pope choses his name to honor previous popes of the same name or to indicate what direction he intends to follow during his paparazzi (did I spell this right?)

anyway, this is what I found in the Encyclopedia of World History on previous Benedicts:

Benedict VIII "something of a reformer"
Benedict IX "a debauchee who sold the papacy for cash"
Benedict XI "promulgated a bull condemning the principals in the affair at Anagni, and died almost immediately (reputedly by poison)"
.
.
Benedict XIV "a charming, learned and serious-minded pope"
Benedict XV "was confronted with the world conflagration, which he did the utmost to terminate. put forward proposal for peace. but efforts bore no fruit"

hope he wants to follow in the footsteps of B14...

Drbio
04-22-2005, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by: Don_Didi
@UL: So neither me nor Bio had our facts straight. LEt me point out though, that deserting from the German army wasn't as "dangerous" as some would have you believe. According to you rinformation, he escaped in May, and I would like to point out that many soldiers, regular and Waffen SS, simply ran at that point and before then. The vast majority were either taken prisoner by the Allies or found safe haven. I guess that makes them all courageous men. The fact remains, however, that the election of this pope was a controversial one, both because of his beliefs and his history. Time will tell whether it was a risk worth taking.

No moron. Only you had your facts in error. Probably because you pulled your initial post clean out of your arse. I on the other hand have actually read about this man and understand that his ethics and morals have served him over his entire lifetime. Try actually reading up on a subject before attacking the character of a great man. Pope bashing? Is nothing sacred?

Chiwas
04-23-2005, 11:44 AM
Is nothing sacred? The spirit of the nicknames to the new Pope seems to show so.