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dirno2000
06-09-2005, 05:52 PM
Deputy commissioner Russ Granik told members of the NBA's competition committee Monday to prepare for a lockout, four league sources, including two NBA general managers, have told ESPN.com.
League spokesman Tim Frank was more circumspect when confirming Granik's remarks, saying Granik told the committee "to prepare in case of a lockout."

Sources, some at the NBA's pre-draft camp in Chicago, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, are not optimistic that the league and the players' union can reach agreement on a new collective-bargaining agreement before the current contract expires June 30.

The same sources say, however, that any work stoppage will not be a long one.

"There's going to be a lockout," an NBA executive told Ford. "I don't think there's any way we get a deal done any time soon. We're not seeing eye to eye right now. The truth is that players don't really believe a lockout will hurt them in the summer. It won't be until there's a threat of losing that first paycheck that they'll get serious about negotiating again."

While this could be no more than posturing by the NBA, sources on the players' side are quietly conceding the same thing.

"I think they'll lock us out," a source with the NBA Players' Association said. "I think David [Stern] has always wanted to lock us out. I think it's a mistake. They act like they don't have anything to lose, but I think they do. The summer league, free agency, NBA players' playing in the qualifying tournament for the World Championships. The bottom line is that the players want to play. They [the players] offered to extend the current deal until a new one could be put into place. They [the owners] want this, and there's nothing we can do to stop them."

A number of issues currently separate the sides. The biggest is the owners' insistence that guaranteed contracts be considerably shortened. Currently, players can sign for a maximum of six or seven years, depending upon whether the player is signing with a new team (six years) or his current team (seven years). The owners have been trying to get that rolled back to five years.

Three other issues have become sticking points for the players: 1) the owners' proposal to reduce the amount of annual raises in a contract; 2) a "super luxury tax" that would more harshly penalize teams that spend more than a certain predetermined threshold; and 3) the proposed minimum age requirement of 20 years old.

Despite the resignation that a lockout appears inevitable, sources also have expressed optimism that any work stoppage would not be protracted or actually threaten the 2005-06 season.

"I think both sides will take the month of July off," a prominent agent said. "I think we'll head back to the table in August and have something hammered [out] by September. The NBA has no interest in losing revenue and fan support by canceling games. The players have no interest in losing their paychecks. The stakes just aren't high enough right now. But they will be in the fall."

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Would this be called the Mark Cuban tax?

LRB
06-09-2005, 06:48 PM
If this happens, it will really hurt the Mavs who are depending on the summer leagues to bring along Terry and Harris as PG's not to mention our various project players. I sure hope they get something worked out so the summer league play won't be canceled. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a lockout all summer.

DubOverdose
06-09-2005, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by: LRB
If this happens, it will really hurt the Mavs who are depending on the summer leagues to bring along Terry and Harris as PG's not to mention our various project players. I sure hope they get something worked out so the summer league play won't be canceled. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a lockout all summer.
Im pretty sure veterans (in the L for 3 seasons or more) can't play in the summer league.

rakesh.s
06-09-2005, 09:25 PM
Cuban will think 100 times before he ever hands out another contract if that super luxury tax kicks in.. The mavs are at 93 mill or something like that. That's almost TWICE the salary cap figure!!

LRB
06-09-2005, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by: DubOverdose

Originally posted by: LRB
If this happens, it will really hurt the Mavs who are depending on the summer leagues to bring along Terry and Harris as PG's not to mention our various project players. I sure hope they get something worked out so the summer league play won't be canceled. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a lockout all summer.
Im pretty sure veterans (in the L for 3 seasons or more) can't play in the summer league.

I don't think so. Bo Outlaw plays in the summer leagues almost every year. It may be that vets in the L for 3+ seasons don't HAVE TO play in summer leagues if their team requests it, but I'm pretty sure that they can play if they want to. It really doesn't make sense to bar them from playing.

V2M
06-10-2005, 09:33 AM
This is bad news. Terry/Harris could miss a golden opportunity to develop their PG play under AJ's tutelage. Likewise, it'd have been great to see DJ & PPod on the court, getting some valuable playing time.

Misfit Mav
06-10-2005, 10:51 AM
Could the Mavs quietly arrange summer scrimmages for their young players? Or would that upset the union too much?

dalmations202
06-10-2005, 11:02 AM
Request all of them to play overseas in some league over in Germany or something like that. Something away from the NBA and it's rules.

You would find out which ones wanted to play/get better and which ones wanted their time off.

I still think Dallas should hire Sabonis to teach the bigs to pass, and let them play in Russia for the summer. AJ could coach the guards.

Big Boy Laroux
06-10-2005, 11:05 AM
can't you guys see?

This is all just an elaborate hoax. reffing in the nba has gotten so bad, the league wants to do something about it. But they don't have the balls to just come out and fire every ref.

what do you do if you don't want someone to come to a party you're having, and you accidentally already invited them? You just tell them the party was cancelled.

Same thing applies here. The nba wants the refs to believe there will be no season, so they won't try to show up for work until it's too late. Then they can all be fired for not showing up for the first game.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

mary
06-10-2005, 11:06 AM
Request all of them to play overseas in some league over in Germany or something like that. Something away from the NBA and it's rules.

Something tells me Cuban wouldn't be too thrilled with that idea. He's repeatedly expressed his displeasure with his players playing for "other" leagues.

dirno2000
06-10-2005, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by: mary

Request all of them to play overseas in some league over in Germany or something like that. Something away from the NBA and it's rules.

Something tells me Cuban wouldn't be too thrilled with that idea. He's repeatedly expressed his displeasure with his players playing for "other" leagues.I doubt the other leagues would want them anyway. They're trying to build competitive teams, not be a developmental league for locked out NBA players.

Labron has rented a gym and Akron and has apparently invited about 20 players to come play in the even of a lockout. Houston, Chicago and LA will probably also be hotspots for NBA players looking for a game.

I'm not worried about Devin, even if there's no summer league, a guard can always find a game. He won't have the benefit of playing for Avery, but he can find some players to challenge him.

Pavel and DJ will suffer becuse it's harder for bigs to find decent competition.

poohrichardson
06-10-2005, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by: Big Boy Laroux
can't you guys see?

This is all just an elaborate hoax. reffing in the nba has gotten so bad, the league wants to do something about it. But they don't have the balls to just come out and fire every ref.


Watching the officiating in the Olympics made me really appreciate the consistency and general accuracy of the NBA officiating.. but that's just my opinion.

MavKikiNYC
06-13-2005, 07:20 AM
Stern's Talk Is Tough, but Union Is Unfazed

By LIZ ROBBINS
Published: June 13, 2005

SAN ANTONIO, June 12 - N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern warned the players union that the league would pull its current offers off the table if a labor agreement could not be reached by the July 1 deadline.

Speaking before Game 2 of the finals Sunday, Stern said the league's owners had already made concessions. He blamed the union for not agreeing to year-round drug testing, a player age limit of 19 years old, six-year maximum contracts and a guarantee of 57 percent of revenue to the players.

"If we don't have a deal by July 1, we won't make a deal anytime soon after," Stern said. "If July 1 comes and there's a lockout, the union will have made a mistake of epic proportions that I don't think the average member of the rank and file understands."

No meetings between the parties are scheduled, and Stern said he was waiting for the players to conclude their meetings, which are taking place this week in Chicago and New York, and approach the league.

Stern criticized what he called the union's rhetoric, and he expressed bewilderment that the negotiations had taken this turn. He said he was optimistic now, but "post-July 1, I am so pessimistic that I find it to be incredible that the players, when they finish their meetings, the players themselves who are averaging $4.4 million, won't say let's just go someplace and get a deal done."

Billy Hunter, the executive director of the union, said by phone from Chicago, where he was meeting with players: "We're not afraid of a lockout, but we understand, it would be foolish if we can't make a deal. We're going to try to make a deal."

Hunter said Stern was not giving a full picture of where negotiations had broken down. He said of the drug-testing issue: "I think it's grandstanding. I think David wants to be out in front of this issue. The reality is we will agree to random testing, but I've got to balance that with privacy issues."

Stern said the owners had ceded ground by asking for an age limit of 19, down from 20. He said the union suggested amending the age limit so that the top four picks are not subject to it. Hunter said, "I think that's the commissioner's issue; I don't believe that it's the owners."

Hunter said one league proposal was to have three rounds of the draft to expand its minor league, the National Basketball Development League. He said the N.B.A. was also trying to reduce guaranteed contracts for rookies to two years from three. It seemed clear that the sides were entering a heated time of posturing.

"Time has just about run out to get a deal before July 1," said the league deputy commissioner, Russ Granik. "It's not impossible."

Stern acknowledged that the N.B.A. would take a hit if it followed the path of the N.H.L., which canceled last season and still has not reached an agreement.

"We have seen the damage that a lockout can do across the board: fans, sponsors, licensing, network partners and the like," Stern said. "Anyone who thinks or writes that that doesn't have enormous economic impact is wrong."

Stern said the league had recently changed its proposal on the length of contracts to six years (for players staying with the same team) and five years (for other free agents) from four and three years. Hunter said he was not aware that the league had made that offer.

Stern said: "If we do have a lockout, this offer will not be on the table. That is why we are pushing so hard to get a deal done."

Stern rejected the notion that the league was trying to impose a hard cap. He said the operating costs after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, with increases for insurance and security, had increased, but that "our current proposal ignores that."

Stern said the owners had made a concession by agreeing to allot 57 percent of revenue to the players. Hunter countered that over the past seven years of the current collective bargaining agreement, the average revenue given to players was closer to 60 percent. He said the union sought other concessions in exchange.

Stern said: "I'm trying to find a way to make sense of it because from the owners' perspective, we've moved a lot. If that's not reciprocated, then we are going to have a real problem."

LRB
06-13-2005, 09:57 AM
If the players don't sign the deal they have offered to them, then they are complete fools. They are averaging $4.4 million dollars to play a child's game, have several months of vacation per year, have contracts that guarrantee that they will be paid even if they suck at their work and put out a S#!tty effort, get treated like roayalty most anywhere they go, and a list of perks that goes on nigh on forever. I really think it's the greedy agents behind this, and the players are too busy playing intendo and/or don't have the brain power to realize just how much a lockout will cost them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the owners and especially Stern are angels by any stretch of the imagination. However, With ratings dropping overall for NBA telecast and constantly more and more entertainment competition for the dollar, not to mention the errosion of fundamental basketball skills in players entering the NBA which turns the league into a big training program, and other issues which threaten to place an end on the ever growing revenue stream the NBA has been blessed with over the last couple of decades or so, the owners have to make decisions now to keep the NBA sound fiscally or risk economic disaster on the level of Hockey. At least these guess are putting hundereds of millions of dollars on the line, and that's a lot even for a billionaire.

Bookit
06-13-2005, 05:12 PM
It sounds to me that the owners are making the necessary concessions and the players are holding off for some reason. Typically, the player's reps are concentrating on not getting pushed around and have forgotten what the real goal is. Just take the owner's consession and be done with already! They get one less year on a max contract. Big deal. The great players will make the same money in less years and the owners get more contract flexibility. Get it done guys.

Drbio
06-13-2005, 05:31 PM
I put this one firmly on the shoulders of the players.

rakesh.s
06-13-2005, 05:45 PM
This could lead to the demise of the NBA..if it does come back, even the casual fan won't be tuning in because these guys, with their guaranteed contracts, couldn't even agree to a reasonable deal..

They really need to fire Billy Hunter ASAP...he's a freakin moron.

When the NBA does come back(hopefully there IS an 05-06 season in some way, shape or form), it'll be what hockey was prior to the lockout..A small dedicated audience comprising of folks like ourselves will watch.

LRB
06-13-2005, 05:52 PM
So long as non of the 05/06 season is lost, I think that a lockout will have relatively little damage to the NBA. However once games are starting to be canceled some serious damage will start to occur. For me it's pretty damn hard to empathize with these million dollar babies and think that a lot of America will to. This will hurt the star players somewhat because they'll see the trend of endorsement bucks continue to dwindle, but at a much faster rate.

StylisticS
06-14-2005, 05:09 AM
With what happened to the NHL the NBA's players association can't be this stupid right? right?

Drbio
06-14-2005, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by: StylisticS
With what happened to the NHL the NBA's players association can't be this stupid right? right?

You would hope not.

LRB
06-14-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by: StylisticS
With what happened to the NHL the NBA's players association can't be this stupid right? right?

With Billy Hunter, stupid is as stupid does.

jayC
06-14-2005, 11:56 AM
Owners need to police themselves? Its Cubans fault for paying a fringe all-star superstar type money. How the hell do the become millionaires anyway? (rhetorical question.)

Smiles
06-14-2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by: StylisticS
With what happened to the NHL the NBA's players association can't be this stupid right? right?
You would be so utterly suprised. You can't apply logic, nor rational thought to this situation either.

However, using rational thought:
Everyone is making money in the NBA, so you would think that neither side would want to lose much money by cancelling games. They might miss a couple -maybe- in the hope of saving (or earning) in the long run though. Isn't Michael Finley a player Rep, and doesn't he only have 3 yrs left on his contract? At $15 million a year, I can't imagine he's willing to lose much money, so it would make sense that he'd be pushing his guys to sign an agreement before even one game is cancelled. I'm 99.999999999% sure we would never lose the whole season.

LRB
06-14-2005, 01:26 PM
You know I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that whether a deal is reached or a lockout is forced on the players, that Billy Hunter will still keep recieving his paycheck. There is something vastly wrong with this scenario if I'm right.