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View Full Version : Suns trade Q. Richardson for Kurt Thomas & 1st round pick.


echo
06-23-2005, 02:15 AM
RealGM - RealGM.com's Christopher Reina has learned that Quentin Richardson will be dealt to the Knicks in exchange for Kurt Thomas and a future conditional number one draft choice. This deal is pending league approval and should be announced following Game 7 of the NBA Finals on Thursday.

If this is true then I think the Suns are much improved. First it means that Joe Johnson is likely to resign. JJ is a much better player than Q. Rich. Thomas gives them much needed depth at PF/C and could possibly start if Marion moves to SF. Or they could bring Thomas off the bench and use Jim Jackson at SF. It also means that S. Hunter is probably gone, but Thomas is proven and should fit in nicely. Q. Rich in NY makes no sense at all.

Thoughts on this trade?

dirk2003
06-23-2005, 02:17 AM
Most of us thought Isiah Thomas couldnt do any stupider stuff than he has already. Yet once again he managed to fool us all.

Does this maybe mean that Amare stays at center???

echo
06-23-2005, 02:24 AM
I'm not sure how the Suns will work their lineup, but it gives them more possibilities. If Thomas starts it could be at center or PF. Likewise for Amare. I'm sure Thomas will get 30 minutes a game and it's a huge upgrade over Hunter IMO. Jim Jackson is much older than Q. Rich, but talent wise there isn't a dropoff there.

Always wanted to see K. Thomas back in Dallas. Oh well!

Thespiralgoeson
06-23-2005, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by: dirk2003
Most of us thought Isiah Thomas couldnt do any stupider stuff than he has already. Yet once again he managed to fool us all.

Kurt Thomas may be the most underrated player in the NBA, and Quentin Richardson is definately among the most overrated. Still, I don't see what's stupid about trading a player in his 30's for a young, talented all-star calibur player like Q-Rich.


Does this maybe mean that Amare stays at center???

Thomas is bigger, better defensively, and much closer to a 5 than is Amare. Amare also has made it clear that he doesn't want to keep playing center. So my guess is, no, Amare will not stay at center.

dirk2003
06-23-2005, 02:41 AM
Isiah keeps getting players for the 2/3 spots... he is loaded there. He needs a center/powerforward... which is what he got rid of.

Q is trash.. all he does is jack up threes.. lets see how he does without wide open looks from Steve.

grndmstr_c
06-23-2005, 02:44 AM
Short term I think it helps the Knicks more. With Taylor, JYD, TT, and Rose, the Knicks are loaded with guys who can play PF so Kurt's somewhat expendable. And with a primary rotation at the 1/2/3 that features Marbury, Crawford, Q, Ariza, and Tim Thomas (assuming all of them stay), they're going to cause some problems for opponents. They'll need to fill out the frontcourt with another center, but I can definitely see them as a playoff team.

As for Phoenix, Kurt's the kind of guy I'm sure they'd like to have coming off the bench, but they just traded a starter for him. I'm not certain they didn't take a little bit of a step back with this trade, at least for next year.

Wonder what the story is on the first rounder.

dirno2000
06-23-2005, 03:02 AM
Is Real GM reliable...I'd prefer that this trade didn't go through.

A front line of Stoudamire, Thomas and Marion is much better equipped to defend and rebound then the front line that they threw out there last year. They still have offense to spare with Amare, Nash, Marion and Johnson...plus Thomas isn't an offensive liability himself. He'll finish around the basket and knock down the open mid-range jump shot. In my mind this makes them a championship contender.

I guess this pretty much guarantees that they have to match any offer of Joe Johnson, no matter how high.

Thespiralgoeson
06-23-2005, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by: dirk2003
Isiah keeps getting players for the 2/3 spots... he is loaded there. He needs a center/powerforward... which is what he got rid of.

Actually, they had a logjam at that spot, hence getting rid of KVH. And even if that were true, trading an ancient Kurt Thomas for a youthful Q is hardly something that's outrageously stupid, as you seem to suggest.


Q is trash.. all he does is jack up threes.. lets see how he does without wide open looks from Steve.

The guy definately jacks up way too many three's, but he's certainly not "trash." And you're right, he won't be getting those open looks from Steve; he'll be getting them from Marbury.

The Miles
06-23-2005, 04:46 AM
I feel really, really bad for Knicks fans.

aexchange
06-23-2005, 07:15 AM
i was reading on some of the suns boards that the suns wanted to move qrich to the bench for next season and richardson was adamant that he was a starter in the league. i wonder how the knicks are going to handle having high volume shooters in qrich, crawford, and starbury in one starting lineup.

aexchange
06-23-2005, 07:15 AM
i was reading on some of the suns boards that the suns wanted to move qrich to the bench for next season and richardson was adamant that he was a starter in the league. i wonder how the knicks are going to handle having high volume shooters in qrich, crawford, and starbury in one starting lineup.

jthig32
06-23-2005, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Originally posted by: dirk2003
Most of us thought Isiah Thomas couldnt do any stupider stuff than he has already. Yet once again he managed to fool us all.

Kurt Thomas may be the most underrated player in the NBA, and Quentin Richardson is definately among the most overrated. Still, I don't see what's stupid about trading a player in his 30's for a young, talented all-star calibur player like Q-Rich.


Does this maybe mean that Amare stays at center???

Thomas is bigger, better defensively, and much closer to a 5 than is Amare. Amare also has made it clear that he doesn't want to keep playing center. So my guess is, no, Amare will not stay at center.

Might want to check your facts. Thomas is shorter and smaller. I'll be very interested to see how he does in the West.

I know one thing, they won't be able to play that lineup against the Mavs.

rakesh.s
06-23-2005, 08:17 AM
Not sure how Kurt Thomas fits into their run and gun style..Richardson was obviously the odd man out. Q seems to be a good 6th man, not a starter.

dalmations202
06-23-2005, 08:32 AM
From a Phoenix perspective, I like the trade. They are going unconventional, but with this same team, and if they could get a Center like Lorenzen Wright as well..... Watch out.

If Phoenix started Nash, JJohnson, SMarion, Amare, and Wright --- with a bench of Barbosa, JJackson, and Thomas......... IMO, they would have a shot at winning it all.

Bayliss
06-23-2005, 10:27 AM
From a Mavs perspective.... I like this trade.

Thomas Dirk
Stoudemire Dampier
Marion Howard
Johnson Finley/Daniels
Nash Harris/Terry

The Mavs match up better because there are no longer 4 three point shooters on the arc. Dirk has someone to guard. If Marion covers Dirk... it exposes Thomas or Stoudemire on either Howard or Daniels.

And best of all.... it slows the Suns offense down.

echo
06-23-2005, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by: Bayliss
From a Mavs perspective.... I like this trade.

Thomas Dirk
Stoudemire Dampier
Marion Howard
Johnson Finley/Daniels
Nash Harris/Terry

The Mavs match up better because there are no longer 4 three point shooters on the arc. Dirk has someone to guard. If Marion covers Dirk... it exposes Thomas or Stoudemire on either Howard or Daniels.

And best of all.... it slows the Suns offense down.

The only mismatch in the Mavs favor is Dirk vs. Thomas. Sliding Marion to SF doesn't give us the edge there anymore. Johnson is superior to Finley/Daniels in every way. Nash is Nash. Phoenix becomes a better rebounding team and much tougher, and they can still go small (Jackson for Thomas) so I don't think we match up any better. I love the Mavs, but I don't think we stack up to Phoenix or SA yet. I think we need to make a move or two first.

vjz
06-23-2005, 10:40 AM
Is Isiah Thomas crazy? Why on earth would they do this trade? How is QRich going to help them?

endtroducing
06-23-2005, 10:59 AM
Marbury. Crawford. Richardson. that's a LOT of shots.

dalmations202
06-23-2005, 11:09 AM
The only mismatch in the Mavs favor is Dirk vs. Thomas. Sliding Marion to SF doesn't give us the edge there anymore. Johnson is superior to Finley/Daniels in every way. Nash is Nash. Phoenix becomes a better rebounding team and much tougher, and they can still go small (Jackson for Thomas) so I don't think we match up any better. I love the Mavs, but I don't think we stack up to Phoenix or SA yet. I think we need to make a move or two first.

Nailed this one. Good trade for Phoenix, very good. Thomas can run the floor, so it won't slow down their offense at all.

Bayliss
06-23-2005, 11:34 AM
I disagree completely.

It isn't about comparative matchups. It's about spacing on the floor... chemistry... etc.

The Suns had it last year. They reminded me of Pampa back in the early 90's. They would stay with you for a while then boom... they started raining threes.

The Suns win games because of their spread offense and ability to hit the 3. Q wasn't great in the playoffs... but he was a huge reason too for their success in the regular season.

And if you are truly counting on Jim Jackson to do something... don't hold your breath. He got to sit out all year to be fresh in the playoffs. Plaaying 82 games next year will change that.

alby
06-23-2005, 11:44 AM
are you guys forgetting about nash's drop in play next season? =p

dalmations202
06-23-2005, 11:47 AM
are you guys forgetting about nash's drop in play next season? =p
No, but it is offset by Barbosa's gain in play............i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

alby
06-23-2005, 11:51 AM
nice lol i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

grndmstr_c
06-23-2005, 12:06 PM
Team's don't need 5 guys running the floor to have an effective break, but to suggest that adding KT won't slow them down isn't entirely accurate. He doesn't run the floor anything at all like Marion or Stoudemire, and there will be times when the positioning of the Suns players after a defensive rebound would require him to be able to run and finish like those two in order to get a fast break out of it. So while they'll still run plenty, they do figure to lose a few opportunities.

What I'm more interested in seeing, though, is how this affects their halfcourt offense. I expect he will clog that up relative to last year. A lot of the things that made the Suns so good in spite of the obvious holes in their roster in 04/05 just got tossed out the window in this trade. Marion's a lesser perimeter threat at SF than was Q, KT's a lesser offensive threat at PF than Marion, period, and the congestion this move creates around the lane won't make it any easier for Nash to repeat his MVP year. Obviously the hope for the Suns is that they're able to make up for that in defense and rebounding, but I'm not at all convinced that what KT offers in those respects is enough to make up for what they're giving up.

Just one other note that's worth considering. Each of the last three years both Marion and Amare have posted their best +/- at the bigger positions of PF and C, respectively, rather than at what most would consider their natural positions of SF and PF.

alby
06-23-2005, 12:09 PM
the suns are not going to change their style.. run and gun, full throttle, for 48 minutes (or however long nash can last)

adding kt will hurt the effectiveness of this style. period.

echo
06-23-2005, 12:37 PM
I think this trade helps them match up against SA better and not be as reliant on scoring 115 ppg to win. And yes they are still very much capable of playing uptempo, but they can now bang more if needed. Q. Rich is a very good player, but shooters are much easier to find than decent big men. I expect the Suns will add another SF/SG type in free agency. A star no, but someone who can hit threes. That will make the Suns deeper than they were this year. I think the Mavs have a good nucleus, but if they stand pat we are going to be the third best team in the west again. Two trades I think we can make are for R. Allen (S&T with Seattle who likely won't be able to keep him and would probably be better of getting something in return) and PJ Brown. Jettison Stackhouse/Daniels for Allen and Van Horn for Brown. Do something like this and then we are in the mix. Stand pat and we are likely out in the 2nd round.

bo319
06-23-2005, 12:39 PM
No way they matchup with Thomas on Dirk. Thomas would likely take Damp and Amare would sorta check Howard leaving Marion on Dirk.

Thespiralgoeson
06-23-2005, 03:27 PM
I can't imagine Phoenix sees KT as any kind of permanent solution for any problem in their starting lineup. I don't think they're finished by any stretch. They'll probably make a move for another starting center and have Kurt off the bench.


Originally posted by:Bayliss
And if you are truly counting on Jim Jackson to do something... don't hold your breath. He got to sit out all year to be fresh in the playoffs. Plaaying 82 games next year will change that.

I don't think that'll be too much of a problem for them, because they're probably moving Amare back to 4, Marion back to 3, and Johnson will start at 2. Jimmy Jax will still be their 6th man, I think he can handle that.

Redbug
06-23-2005, 06:29 PM
I WISH THE MAVS HAD THE BALLS THAT PHOENIX DOES......they bring in Q at fairly high $$$$ and after he disappears in the playoffs, shows no defense what so ever...is a foul magnet ala Damp & Bradley they aren't afraid to look like they made a mistake...after the 1st year they ship him off to Isiah and get a solid player they can spot start or bring off the bench plus a draft pick down the line which you know will be fairly high because it's the knicks you're dealing with......on the other hand the MAVS....

take a chance and sign Damp....he makes them better during the regular season (almost any living breathing center would)...then disappears during the playoffs....is a foul magnet that spends more time on the bench than in the game...fumbles away point blank shot attempts and rebounds when every single possession is critical...he's been in the league 10+ years...ain't gonna teach that old dog any new tricks....he's injury prone and it's only gonna get worse...bad knees...bad ankles....and now stress fractures of the foot....watching him lumber up and down the court he reminds you of the tortoise and the hair....

DO THE MAVS HAVE THE BALLS TO FIND A WAY TO SHIP HIM OFF?????....or are we just going to hear excuses and wishful thinking about how it will all come together and be better this next year?????

INDIANA, MEMPHIS...maybe others wanted Damp....I'd love to trade him to the Pacers for a package including Artest....I'd even give them Howard or Quis or Stack...whatever and Damp for Artest and Foster or whatever...even if you didn't want psycho Artest you'd now have a major trading chip....

In hearing rumors about the Lakers trying to fleece New Orleans out of Maglore & Brown I'd offer them Damp and whatever....and if they didn't want Damp I'd try my darndest to get Maglore...he's what we wish Damp could be....plays STRONG around the hoop...has good hands...can be a monster on the boards....is a good defender....might be an inch or so shorter than Damp but has good size, is VERY ACTIVE, and can RUN THE COURT AND FINISH.....

Those saying we need Damp and then add to him...I'd rather start with Maglore and then add to him....find a Cato or Battie starter kit...Gad (bet the Bucks keep him)...I'd love to have a Dalambert but Mo Cheeks ain't gonna let that get away ....

as for P Pod & DJ....lets see how they do in the NBADL....right now DJ has hands worse than Damp...last summer league he couldn't hang onto rebounds to save his life....P Pod??? just seems SLOW to react or in his movement....we'll see if he can improve his reaction in the flow of the game....right now both seem like 90% busts....10% Shawn Bradley starter kits with the added bonus of maybe having a desire to play the game and not just collect a paycheck.....

Thespiralgoeson
06-23-2005, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by: Redbug

DO THE MAVS HAVE THE BALLS TO FIND A WAY TO SHIP HIM OFF?????....or are we just going to hear excuses and wishful thinking about how it will all come together and be better this next year?????

Jesus Christ, another one of these... Look, Damp played as well in the regular season as anyone should have realistically expected. His playoff performance was dissappointing, yes, but 7 and 7 is hardly as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. In fact, he played better against Amare than did Nazr Mohammed, or Swift.


INDIANA, MEMPHIS...maybe others wanted Damp....I'd love to trade him to the Pacers for a package including Artest....I'd even give them Howard or Quis or Stack...whatever and Damp for Artest and Foster or whatever...even if you didn't want psycho Artest you'd now have a major trading chip....

Artest is a great player, but he's a liability and I don't want him anywhere near this team, especially if it means giving up Josh. And I'd rather have Damp than Foster, so I'll pass on that one.


In hearing rumors about the Lakers trying to fleece New Orleans out of Maglore & Brown I'd offer them Damp and whatever....and if they didn't want Damp I'd try my darndest to get Maglore...he's what we wish Damp could be....plays STRONG around the hoop...has good hands...can be a monster on the boards....is a good defender....might be an inch or so shorter than Damp but has good size, is VERY ACTIVE, and can RUN THE COURT AND FINISH.....

Those saying we need Damp and then add to him...I'd rather start with Maglore and then add to him....find a Cato or Battie starter kit...Gad (bet the Bucks keep him)...I'd love to have a Dalambert but Mo Cheeks ain't gonna let that get away ....


Magloire is a great player, and I'd love to have him. If you can show me away to get Magloire without giving up too much of our youth and/or depth, then I'm on board. Even so, Damp isn't anywhere near as atrocious as you seem to think. "plays STRONG around the hoop...has good hands...can be a monster on the boards....is a good defender" Sounds just like Damp to me, except for the hands part. But you know what, I've had this argument so many times it's lost all meaning. If you think Damp is a disappointment, fine (even though his numbers here were better than his career average.) But the moment you start talking about "balls" you make yourself out to be an idiot. If the Mavs don't trade Dampier, it'll be because there wasn't a trade available that would make the team better; not because they don't have balls.

grndmstr_c
06-24-2005, 12:50 PM
Realgm has an updated story about this deal in which Phoenix is actually the one sending the pick to NY. They just traded Quentin Richardson AND a lottery protected first rounder for Kurt Thomas? Are you kidding me? If that's true then this is just a bad trade by the Suns.

sike
06-24-2005, 02:08 PM
so the Suns parted with the pick and not the Knick (as the title of the thread would have one believe)?

if that is true they just dropped their pants and grabbed their ankles...

dirno2000
06-24-2005, 02:14 PM
The way I see it (and the way a lot of the fans on the PHX board see it as well) they pretty much have a two year window to win it all before Nash and Thomas go into serious decline.

I still think that this moves give them a better chance to deal with the Spurs next year.

sike
06-24-2005, 02:43 PM
this moves makes them slower but tougher...

alby
06-26-2005, 02:50 AM
and that's what the playoffs are all about...

DevinHarriswillstart
06-28-2005, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by: Bayliss
From a Mavs perspective.... I like this trade.

Thomas Dirk
Stoudemire Dampier
Marion Howard
Johnson Finley/Daniels
Nash Harris/Terry

The Mavs match up better because there are no longer 4 three point shooters on the arc. Dirk has someone to guard. If Marion covers Dirk... it exposes Thomas or Stoudemire on either Howard or Daniels.

And best of all.... it slows the Suns offense down.


or soon to be

Johnson/Finley Daniels i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

NYCdog
06-28-2005, 09:45 PM
Breaking News via ESPN radio 1050 NYC....

According to the sources The Suns-Knicks trade is complete.

Knicks gets
QRich
#21 Pick (Nate Robinson)

Phoenix gets
Kurt Thomas

Eman
06-29-2005, 10:08 AM
Amazing trade by the Suns, they get Kurt Thomas to help solidify their frontcourt (Stoudamire, Marion and Thomas are a pretty tough front line if you ask me) and they give up nothing..........absolutely nothing, since they will pick up Michael Finley on the free agent market after the Mavericks buy him out next month...............Nash will be very, very happy.

dirno2000
06-29-2005, 10:48 AM
They gave up a good player in his mid 20's and the 21st pick in a draft that was fairly deep for a 32 year old PF. I wouldn't say they gave up nothing.

dalmations202
06-29-2005, 10:50 AM
If Finley does end up in Phoenix, and they do get both JJ's resigned -- IMO they just put together an offensive team that barring injury has the ability to win it all.

They have specialist needing signed, but they have the main pieces.

jayC
06-29-2005, 11:30 AM
I agree with Bayliss. It is all about matchups. The suns were crazy because they caused the rest of the league all kinds of match up problems. They could space the floor with four great shooters on the floor and the best finisher in basketball with Stoudamire. If Joe Johnson had been healthy the Suns could have been in the Finals.

As for Dampier when he is on the floor we are a different team. If he doesn't pick up crap fouls and he pulls down 8 points and 8 rebounds we are dominant. The lack of a backup five hurt us in the playoffs. Besides the lack of Dirk being dominant like he was in the regular season.

NY adds nate robinson the athletic little point guard. And in the draft they add Chenney Frye.

alby
06-29-2005, 12:25 PM
Fin is going to demand 30+ mins and hinder Joe Johnson's growth lol =p

MavKikiNYC
06-29-2005, 05:28 PM
But.......why on EARTH would Phoenix change their style of play?

GP
06-29-2005, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by: alby
Fin is going to demand 30+ mins and hinder Joe Johnson's growth lol =p

Finley would just fill QRich's role as 3 point specialist. Hell, Finley certainly couldn't play any worse than QRich did these playoffs. I like what Phoenix is doing here because Thomas has done well in the playoffs while QRich faded. You should get guys that step up during the playoffs, like Robert Horry, and shun those that wilt. Unfortunately, Finley has done both often in the same series. I certainly think Fin can play better defense than QRich who did his best impersonation of Antawn Jamison this year.

alby
06-30-2005, 01:58 AM
Finley will not be playing with Joe Johnson unless JJ is playing the 1 and Nash is resting. Amare has been adament about moving back to the PF position which means the Nash, Fin, JJ, Marion, Amare lineup won't be used often. If they do though, they will have the same outcome as they did this year and thus aren't going anywhere. All hype.

The Miles
07-01-2005, 07:19 PM
There really isn't room for Fin in Phoenix anymore. Joe, Matrix, Raja, and Jim should be more than enough especially if they sign a vet PG (Payton) and use Barboas at the two some (as Suns fan say they are rumored to do).

LRB
07-02-2005, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by: The Miles
There really isn't room for Fin in Phoenix anymore. Joe, Matrix, Raja, and Jim should be more than enough especially if they sign a vet PG (Payton) and use Barboas at the two some (as Suns fan say they are rumored to do).

There's always room. Adding Fin allows them to trade someone to acquire a big man that they need. Plus Phoenix could use the depth as Joe's injury this year in the playoffs showed.

vjz
07-03-2005, 11:10 AM
From the Sports Guy (ESPN.com) (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050701&num=0):

Hey, that reminds me – do you think Phoenix's brain trust was sitting around when the following exchange happened:

–GM Bryan Colangelo: "God, Q sucked in that Spurs series, we gotta get rid of him."

–Coach Mike D'Antoni: "Come on, nobody wants a guy with a bad back who chokes in big spots?"

–Colangelo: "Just for the hell of it, should I call Isiah and see if we get Kurt Thomas for Q and a No. 1?"

(Colangelo and D'Antoni laugh hysterically for five seconds. Then they stop laughing.)

–Colangelo (grabbing phone): "You call his office, I'll call his cell!"

Misfit Mav
07-03-2005, 11:33 AM
I'm impressed with the Suns decisiveness in adding toughness. It seemed like the Mavs sat on their hands for a few seasons when they had the same weaknesses.

TheBaron
07-04-2005, 01:12 AM
Q is great for the Knicks. He'll never bomb in the playoffs because he'll never play in the playoffs.

dude1394
07-04-2005, 10:08 AM
I tend to think that with picking up Raja, that fin will no longer be sought by phoenix either. Not that I cared to be honest.
Since I'm mostly concerned about 3pt shooting..

Raja - 40.3%, 3.2 RPG.
Fin - 40.7%, 4.1 RPG

So looks pretty much a wash to me, so how does Jackson do?

JJ - 41.4%, 4.2RPG.

dirno2000
07-12-2005, 01:32 AM
Has anyone else noticed that Nate Robinson, the player NY took with PHX's 1st round pick, is tearing up the Vegas summer league? He's averaging 22 points per game on 46% from the filed and behind the line...interesting player

So last year the Suns traded the 7th pick in the draft where they could have taken Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith etc... so they would have the cap room to sign Q. Then they trade Q and that pick (now 14 slots lower) for an undersized 33 year old center.

To top it off, they spent the MLE on a back up two guard so now they won't be able to sign a decent big man to come off the bench...they better win it all this year.

FINtastic
07-12-2005, 02:02 AM
dirno, I think you might be right on this Nate Robinson deal. I think Nate Robinson is a player that can find a really nice niche in this league. He's super athletic, and I think he could have been a really good fit into Phoenix's uptempo system. I'm still wondering how well Kurt Thomas fits in with Phoenix. Sure they will be able to play a more conventional system, but is that necessarily a good thing for phoenix?