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MavsFanFinley
07-18-2005, 07:56 PM
Swift Takeoff: Rockets Land Stromile

18th July, 2005 - 8:40 pm

Houston Chronicle - Jonathan Feigan of the Houston Chronicle reports that Houston had their first taste of success this offseason on Monday. Forward Stromile Swift, the only player the Rockets have targeted in free agency, agreed to terms with the Rockets on Monday evening, Swift's agent, Andy Miller, said.

Swift spent almost two weeks since visiting the Rockets considering his options, including a strong push by the New Jersey Nets , but Miller said Swift, 6-10, decided the chance to play with Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming inspired him to take the Rockets' offer.

The Rockets, who are over the salary cap, could offer only the midlevel exception, expected to be worth between $28 million and $32 million over five years. He likely could have received greater offers, particularly in a sign-and-trade deal, but decided to end his free agency.

Swift, 25, has averaged nine points and five rebounds in five NBA seasons.

"He has decided to become a Houston Rocket," Miller said. "He's absolutely excited about playing with Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming. The Houston organization has been very consistent and adamant about getting him."

echo
07-18-2005, 08:09 PM
May be the best move in FA so far. Swift for the MLE is a bargain and he fits perfectly in Houston. Depending on what Dallas & Phoenix end up doing, I move Houston right behind the Spurs. Nice move and kudos to Swift for taking less.

Murphy3
07-18-2005, 08:24 PM
Wow...this really sucks.

grndmstr_c
07-18-2005, 08:26 PM
Good pickup and good value for the Rockets. Good decision for Swift, too. The Rockets are as nice a fit for his talents as he could hope to find.

I'll be interested to see how Houston addresses their situation at the guard spots, because they're still quite undersized and/or underskilled in the backcourt relative to most of the other top teams and are now dependent on trades to get the rest of their work done, but IMO this is the first real impact offseason move made by any of the Mavs' close competitors.

EricaLubarsky
07-18-2005, 08:28 PM
Agree with Murph on this one. Houston got a good deal and as much as Houston probably wanted an SAR or Juwan back for the scoring, adding a defensive minded, shot-blocking role player to the 4 spot really makes Houston more formidable. Replace the spares at the 2 and get a point to accompany James and that team might be headed to the WCF

Thespiralgoeson
07-18-2005, 08:42 PM
Nice fit for Houston. I figured they would go for Webber assuming he gets waived, but I guess you gotta strike when the iron's hot. I'm not worried though. Until Houston improves their backcourt, they don't really scare me.

u2sarajevo
07-18-2005, 08:45 PM
They may not scare you... but they were one game from knocking us out of the playoffs. And this is a great pickup for the Rockets.

Color me concerned.

Misfit Mav
07-18-2005, 08:48 PM
This is very bad news.

Thespiralgoeson
07-18-2005, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
They may not scare you... but they were one game from knocking us out of the playoffs. And this is a great pickup for the Rockets.

Color me concerned.

They were one game away from knocking us out because Dirk was off his game, we had a rookie coach, and both teams hadn't spent a year together. Let's also not forget that KVH was injured. I'm not concerned.

u2sarajevo
07-18-2005, 08:56 PM
They can't actually sign him until Friday right? Maybe he will pull a Boozer. i/expressions/moon.gif

Windmill360
07-18-2005, 08:59 PM
So that leaves no one. Looks like everybody is taken. I certainly put us behind Houston in this devision now.

mavs413
07-18-2005, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
They may not scare you... but they were one game from knocking us out of the playoffs. And this is a great pickup for the Rockets.

Color me concerned.

They were one game away from knocking us out because Dirk was off his game, we had a rookie coach, and both teams hadn't spent a year together. Let's also not forget that KVH was injured. I'm not concerned.

I disagree.
Houston was better than we were in the second half of last season and they have now added talent while we are losing(waiving) it. Yao and T-Mac in year two together should not only concern us, but concern the whole league.

Thespiralgoeson
07-18-2005, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by: mavs413
I disagree.
Houston was better than we were in the second half of last season and they have now added talent while we are losing(waiving) it. Yao and T-Mac in year two together should not only concern us, but concern the whole league.

I don't really remember that well, but I wouldn't say Houston was better than us in the whole second half of the season. They did get pretty hot at one point and won 8 in a row, but we were practically unbeatable towards the end of the season. Let's also not forget that we had a midseason coaching change. Houston's biggest weakness was and still is their backcourt. Now that this team has been together long enough, we'll be under AJ from day 1, and Dirk will be back with a few new tricks, I'm not anymore scared of Houston than I was last season.

jopimokeeluvimanysl
07-18-2005, 09:30 PM
Fung Shwei is on their side. Definitely so indeed.

echo
07-18-2005, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Agree with Murph on this one. Houston got a good deal and as much as Houston probably wanted an SAR or Juwan back for the scoring, adding a defensive minded, shot-blocking role player to the 4 spot really makes Houston more formidable. Replace the spares at the 2 and get a point to accompany James and that team might be headed to the WCF

Swift is a huge upgrade over Juwan (at this point in Howard's career) and I don't think Houston is done. Getting someone like D. Stoudemire on the cheap would be a good move for them. I don't think they really need a big time SG with TMAC on the team. TMAC can play either 2 or 3, and they can survive with Sura/Wesley if need be. They got the best value for the MLE by far. Thought Swift would get more. Remember he's been stuck in Memphis where nobody but Gasol gets major minutes. He should easily be a 15/10 guy in Houston.

DubOverdose
07-18-2005, 09:55 PM
I don't think its that big of a signing. It mostly takes load off of TMac/Yao on defense, but I don't think it puts them over the top at all. They need a halfway decent PG.

Bayliss
07-18-2005, 10:06 PM
I agree Dub.

What is so different about Stro and Juwan?

And btw, what gave the Mavs trouble last year in the playoffs? Are the Rockets still planning on moving McGrady to power forward?

grndmstr_c
07-18-2005, 10:15 PM
Swift is a huge upgrade over Juwan (at this point in Howard's career) and I don't think Houston is done. Getting someone like D. Stoudemire on the cheap would be a good move for them. I don't think they really need a big time SG with TMAC on the team. TMAC can play either 2 or 3, and they can survive with Sura/Wesley if need be. They got the best value for the MLE by far. Thought Swift would get more. Remember he's been stuck in Memphis where nobody but Gasol gets major minutes. He should easily be a 15/10 guy in Houston. I'm sorry, but a career backup who's basically been the exact same player for the past 4 years is not going to be a huge upgrade over anybody except an NBDL guy. He should clearly be the Rockets' starter, but let's not get carried away. It's also inaccurate, or at the very least incomplete, to suggest that he's only been held back by Gasol. Perhaps three years ago when Gasol atually was playing heavy minutes that case could have been made, but the last couple years Gasol's only been getting about 32 mpg yet there's been no corresponding increase in Stro's minutes over that time. And none of the takes into consideration that he gets half his minutes at center. Face it. The last two years the guy's prominence in the front-court rotation for Memphis has been indistinguishable from the prominence of Brian Cardinal and Bo Outlaw, and both guys have had better +/- numbers than Swift.

And the 15/10 bit is overly optimistic. Memphis has been a subpar rebounding team each of the last three years and Stro's impact on the rebounding game has been equivocal at best, as the Grizz have rebounded better with him on the bench than on the court in 2 out of those 3 years. In fact, based on his career average Swift would have to play 42 minutes per game to get those 10 rebounds. I'd say 15/7/2 is a more reasonable estimate.

kg_veteran
07-18-2005, 10:16 PM
It's a good signing for Houston, and one that helps them, but does Swift even start there? To me, he looks like their first big off the bench. He's a decent PF, and he'll fit well in Houston, but I don't see him as a difference maker.

The most interesting part of a Swift signing to me is what it might signal regarding Mutombo's future in Houston. He is EXACTLY the kind of backup center I want Dallas to sign.

Go get him, Cubes.

grndmstr_c
07-18-2005, 10:27 PM
The most interesting part of a Swift signing to me is what it might signal regarding Mutombo's future in Houston. He is EXACTLY the kind of backup center I want Dallas to sign.

Go get him, Cubes.I still sort of expect they'll bring him back, but then again their salary obligations for this season have now exceeded the 60 million mark according to hoopshype. If you're right that he'd be available there's not a better big man signing the Mavs could hope to make. Damp/Deke/Dirk/KVH: if Mutombo has one more year like last year left in him I don't think I'd be exaggerating at all in calling that the best frontcourt in the NBA.

RocketFan11
07-18-2005, 10:29 PM
Mutombo and Barry have both indicated that if they're not with the Rockets next year, they'll retire. I think this is definitely true with JB, Deke might go somewhere else if he doesn't get an offer from Houston, but I doubt that will happen.

Also, Stro might have to play a lot of minutes. There are some whispers that Juwan's career may be over with his heart condition. I don't believe it, but it's something the Rockets will be keeping an eye on.

I'm really glad we signed Swift. By all accounts, our second choice was ANTOINE WALKER.

rakesh.s
07-18-2005, 11:31 PM
i was rooting for 'toine

kg_veteran
07-19-2005, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by: RocketFan11
Mutombo and Barry have both indicated that if they're not with the Rockets next year, they'll retire. I think this is definitely true with JB, Deke might go somewhere else if he doesn't get an offer from Houston, but I doubt that will happen.

My recollection of what Mutombo said was that he would like to end his career in Houston, but I think he'd be willing to move on if Houston doesn't make him a decent offer. I doubt they'd offer him 2 years at the MLE. Dallas would (or should) if necessary to get him to Dallas.

Stressboy
07-19-2005, 12:57 AM
Anytime you replace that Bowen guy with a player that can block shots, get put backs and is long and athletic, you have improved your team. We are talking about dumping one of our best players for a little cash savings and unless some significant moves are made, we will be falling behind Houston. We will be fighting for the 4th or 5th spot with them, but right now they have the advantage. To say otherwise is really wishful thinking.

grndmstr_c
07-19-2005, 01:19 AM
Anytime you replace that Bowen guy with a player that can block shots, get put backs and is long and athletic, you have improved your team. We are talking about dumping one of our best players for a little cash savings and unless some significant moves are made, we will be falling behind Houston. We will be fighting for the 4th or 5th spot with them, but right now they have the advantage. To say otherwise is really wishful thinking.A lot is still up in the air with Houston. They could conceivably end up ahead of the Mavs, but as of right now they have a couple free agents outstanding (Barry and Mutombo) who were very solid bench contributors for them last year. And the way the Rockets are built they really need to have good depth at every position outside of SF. They've improved one of those positions (PF) now with the signing of swift, and the point guard position has at least maintained its previous level, but SG and C are question marks. Until we know the answers to those questions I don't think there's much justification for assuming they've improved at all, much less surpassed the Mavs. All they've done thus far is make good use of their MLE.

DevinHarriswillstart
07-19-2005, 01:54 AM
Yet another free agent that we lost. God I hope Portland waives Theo Ratliff. I'm started to get tickled by the fancy of getting him.

alby
07-19-2005, 02:23 AM
If houston picks up damon AND stromile, they are probably imo a top 5 team in the NBA. Especially since they have a top 5 overall player and a top 5 center, now you add in upgrades in the point guard and the power forward position? pretty scary if you ask me..

If Finley decided to go down I 45 and join Houston for the vet's minimum ala karl malone, he would probably win a title or two before his career is over.

MrCheerios
07-19-2005, 02:29 AM
With Swift, they have a backup PF not named Bowen. That in itself is huge. I don't think he'll pry the starting job away from Howard anytime soon, though. He's just not that talented. The rockets are not ahead of the mavs yet, though. But don't think the rocket's are standing still the rest of the offseason. They're gonna try to upgrade the SG spot for sure.

#1MavsFan
07-19-2005, 02:44 AM
It also looks like Damon is almost a lock to be a Rocket.

Damon
Fin? He'd light it up on this squad
Tmac
Stro or Howard
Yao

Thats a very impressive starting 5 with a pretty decent bench.

RocketFan11
07-19-2005, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by: MrCheerios
But don't think the rocket's are standing still the rest of the offseason. They're gonna try to upgrade the SG spot for sure.

This is pure speculation, but a Sign and Trade involving Derek Anderson and Damon Stoudamire could be in the works. The Rockets almost traded Taylor for DA straight up at the deadline, and Portland still wants to shed his contract, especially considering his injury history.

Damon wants to come here and we want him, but unless there's a SnT the best we'll have to offer is the LLE.

Regardless, with around $20millon+ in expiring contracts, don't be surprised if Carroll Dawson (really JVG) tries to work out a Sign and Trade for some more backcourt help.

alby
07-19-2005, 02:49 AM
This is making me very nervous as a Dallas Mavericks Fan.

echo
07-19-2005, 02:59 AM
A lot is still up in the air with Houston. They could conceivably end up ahead of the Mavs, but as of right now they have a couple free agents outstanding (Barry and Mutombo) who were very solid bench contributors for them last year. And the way the Rockets are built they really need to have good depth at every position outside of SF. They've improved one of those positions (PF) now with the signing of swift, and the point guard position has at least maintained its previous level, but SG and C are question marks. Until we know the answers to those questions I don't think there's much justification for assuming they've improved at all, much less surpassed the Mavs. All they've done thus far is make good use of their MLE.

I think Mutombo comes back unless someone offers him the MLE for 2-3 years which is absurd for a guy his age. If he's going to be effective in the playoffs (and he was) you can't overuse him during the regular season. Barry is a LLE guy who played well for him but he's not crucial IMO. It appears Houston is the frontrunner for Damon Stoudemire who played very well last year in Portland. Look for Houston to sign him to the vet minimum, or send an expiring contract/filler/draft choice to Portland. Portland may want them to take back Patterson who could be used as a backup to TMAC or allow TMAC to play some 2. Swift/Stoudemire and resigning Mutombo would make a great offseason IMO.

jopimokeeluvimanysl
07-19-2005, 08:51 AM
mavs sign marquis for mle. houston signs swift for mle.
This makes us look stupid

HexNBA
07-19-2005, 08:54 AM
big effing deal. what has stro swift ever done.

kg_veteran
07-19-2005, 09:03 AM
I think Mutombo comes back unless someone offers him the MLE for 2-3 years which is absurd for a guy his age.

MLE for 2 years sounds like exactly what the Mavs should offer him.

You don't have to overuse Mutombo. Just play him 15-18 mpg.

jayC
07-19-2005, 10:01 AM
Its a good signing for the rockets. Damon Stoudamire and or Damon Jones aren't coming for the veteran exception. The Rockets still have very unathletic guards.

jayC
07-19-2005, 10:01 AM
Its a good signing for the rockets. Damon Stoudamire and or Damon Jones aren't coming for the veteran exception. The Rockets still have very unathletic guards.

alby
07-19-2005, 10:28 AM
15-18 minutes for mount mutumbo is way too much in my book..

kg_veteran
07-19-2005, 10:35 AM
Last season Mutombo averaged 15.2 mpg and played 80 games. Not sure why you think he couldn't do it again.

jayC
07-19-2005, 10:46 AM
I am shocked. I thought that Memphis would resign Swift. He finished with zero blocks in the playoffs. Swift is a great athlete, but is he really a good basketball player.

grndmstr_c
07-19-2005, 11:28 AM
The way the Mavs' frontcourt is currently set up you'd only really need to play a backup center about 10 mpg during the regular season (28-30 mpg for Damp, and it's not a problem to get 8-10 mpg out of a Dirk/KVH frontcourt). In that respect I think Dallas would be an excellent place for Deke.

kg_veteran
07-19-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
The way the Mavs' frontcourt is currently set up you'd only really need to play a backup center about 10 mpg during the regular season (28-30 mpg for Damp, and it's not a problem to get 8-10 mpg out of a Dirk/KVH frontcourt). In that respect I think Dallas would be an excellent place for Deke.

Bingo.

LRB
07-19-2005, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Good pickup and good value for the Rockets. Good decision for Swift, too. The Rockets are as nice a fit for his talents as he could hope to find.

I'll be interested to see how Houston addresses their situation at the guard spots, because they're still quite undersized and/or underskilled in the backcourt relative to most of the other top teams and are now dependent on trades to get the rest of their work done, but IMO this is the first real impact offseason move made by any of the Mavs' close competitors.

let's just hope that it's not Michael Finley.

LRB
07-19-2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I think Mutombo comes back unless someone offers him the MLE for 2-3 years which is absurd for a guy his age.

MLE for 2 years sounds like exactly what the Mavs should offer him.

You don't have to overuse Mutombo. Just play him 15-18 mpg.

Mutombo would be a great pickup for the MLE for 2 years. Besides being a very good backup, and he doesn't really have to play more than 10-15 minutes max in the regular season, he's a great playoff addition. Mutumbo even at this advanced age, is still one of the best at getting the benefit of the call on the defensive end during the playoffs. I would also add that having Mutumbo to mentor DJ and Pavel and heck even Damp wouldn't be that bad of a deal either.

Eman
07-19-2005, 01:31 PM
Maybe I'm missing something? Didn't Mutombo already sign with HOUSTON???????

kg_veteran
07-19-2005, 02:03 PM
No, he hasn't. He's a free agent, and I haven't read anything about him committing to returning.

MrCheerios
07-19-2005, 02:40 PM
Mutumbo and his agent have said that he only wants to play in houston. They haven't re-signed him yet and he'd be crazy not to take up a big offer from another team. But I think they'll pay up to 3mil for him and that'd be enough to make him stay.

alby
07-19-2005, 02:58 PM
10 minutes is alot more different than the "15-18 minutes" and alot more acceptable..

kg_veteran
07-19-2005, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by: MrCheerios
Mutumbo and his agent have said that he only wants to play in houston. They haven't re-signed him yet and he'd be crazy not to take up a big offer from another team. But I think they'll pay up to 3mil for him and that'd be enough to make him stay.

Yeah, I have read his comments about preferring to stay in Houston, but he has definitely left the door open to going elsewhere, and the Rockets haven't slammed it shut by any means.

echo
07-19-2005, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I think Mutombo comes back unless someone offers him the MLE for 2-3 years which is absurd for a guy his age.

MLE for 2 years sounds like exactly what the Mavs should offer him.

You don't have to overuse Mutombo. Just play him 15-18 mpg.

You forget how useless Mutombo was for a few years before landing in Houston. He's a nice fit in that system, but NO WAY do you pay a guy that old the full MLE for 2-3 years to maybe play 15 mpg. Too risky. Besides there is much better young talent (not necessarily centers) that can be had for the MLE. If I had to choose between say Jaric or Mutombo for the MLE it's a no-brainer. Mutombo for the vet minimum? Go for it. But don't waste your MLE on him while other teams are signing guys like Rahim, Swift, Marshall, etc for the MLE.

LRB
07-19-2005, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by: echo

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I think Mutombo comes back unless someone offers him the MLE for 2-3 years which is absurd for a guy his age.

MLE for 2 years sounds like exactly what the Mavs should offer him.

You don't have to overuse Mutombo. Just play him 15-18 mpg.

You forget how useless Mutombo was for a few years before landing in Houston. He's a nice fit in that system, but NO WAY do you pay a guy that old the full MLE for 2-3 years to maybe play 15 mpg. Too risky. Besides there is much better young talent (not necessarily centers) that can be had for the MLE. If I had to choose between say Jaric or Mutombo for the MLE it's a no-brainer. Mutombo for the vet minimum? Go for it. But don't waste your MLE on him while other teams are signing guys like Rahim, Swift, Marshall, etc for the MLE.

Our biggest need is a backup center. If that center can also play some PF great, but we need backup center 1st and foremost. Neither Rahim, Swift nor Marshall are centers. Swift and Marshall have already committed to teams. Rahim is more of a 3 than a 5. As for Jaric, I sincerely hope that you're not referring to Marko Jaric of the Clips, because he's anything but a center.

So just who are the mystery men who would be a better pickup to play backup center to put the Mavs over the top for a championship? Mutumbo has been to the Finals, he's one of the best shot blockers of all time, and he was still very effective last year especially in the playoffs. We don't need young projects, we have several already. However Mutumbo would be a huge help in developing DJ and Pavel by sharing his experience with them. And one other benefit of signing Mutumbo would be that Houston doesn't have him.

echo
07-19-2005, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by: LRB


Our biggest need is a backup center. If that center can also play some PF great, but we need backup center 1st and foremost. Neither Rahim, Swift nor Marshall are centers. Swift and Marshall have already committed to teams. Rahim is more of a 3 than a 5. As for Jaric, I sincerely hope that you're not referring to Marko Jaric of the Clips, because he's anything but a center.

So just who are the mystery men who would be a better pickup to play backup center to put the Mavs over the top for a championship? Mutumbo has been to the Finals, he's one of the best shot blockers of all time, and he was still very effective last year especially in the playoffs. We don't need young projects, we have several already. However Mutumbo would be a huge help in developing DJ and Pavel by sharing his experience with them. And one other benefit of signing Mutumbo would be that Houston doesn't have him.

Do you honestly think signing Mutombo for the MLE brings us a championship? I don't, which is why I would not consider using the MLE on him. Could he help? Possibly. But unless you think he's the last piece of the puzzle, I want to invest part (or all) of the MLE on a guy who is either still performing at a high level that will get more than 15 mpg, or a young guy who has been a productive player but can potentially do more. You add talent and potential, regardless of position, and it better enables you to make trades for guys that fill needs. Had the Mavs signed Swift, Rahim, Marshall or Jaric you can more easily shop players like KVH, Terry or Stackhouse. Gadzuric was the type of center I spend the MLE on (young and has been a productive player) not someone like Mutombo. At his point there isn't a C or PF worth the MLE, so I'm all for going after the top talent regardless of position. Of course the CBA waived player list could possibly dump some talented players into the pool as well, but who we don't know yet. So my philosphy is to fill out a roster with vet minimum guys like Mutombo or C. Robinson or D. Davis, not spend your MLE on them.

Nash13
07-20-2005, 12:04 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that Swift's not that good of a man-to-man defender. Bowen and Padgett may not be as good as Swift, but they have a better chance at guarding Dirk, or for that matter, any other Forward. No one also mentioned the fact that his net +/- +2.8 when he's off the court and a net of -1.9.

This would also put more pressure, defensively, on TMac. Now TMac has to guard the 3, b/c Swift sure can't. Defensively, they'd be better playing Padgett/McGrady than Swift/McGrady.

This also gives them a log jam at the 4/5.

alby
07-20-2005, 12:25 AM
Yes, what are they going to do w J. Howard now since swift is supposedly starting?

EricaLubarsky
07-20-2005, 12:35 AM
Juwan Howard might not be returning to the league

alby
07-20-2005, 12:37 AM
Gotcha, then swift is definitely a good pick up for them. Picking up Damon would probably put them ahead of us IMO.

Because they have the "2nd best center in the league" not us =p

Catalyst
07-20-2005, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by: echo
[quote]

Do you honestly think signing Mutombo for the MLE brings us a championship? I don't, which is why I would not consider using the MLE on him. Could he help? Possibly. But unless you think he's the last piece of the puzzle, I want to invest part (or all) of the MLE on a guy who is either still performing at a high level that will get more than 15 mpg, or a young guy who has been a productive player but can potentially do more. You add talent and potential, regardless of position, and it better enables you to make trades for guys that fill needs. Had the Mavs signed Swift, Rahim, Marshall or Jaric you can more easily shop players like KVH, Terry or Stackhouse. Gadzuric was the type of center I spend the MLE on (young and has been a productive player) not someone like Mutombo. At his point there isn't a C or PF worth the MLE, so I'm all for going after the top talent regardless of position. Of course the CBA waived player list could possibly dump some talented players into the pool as well, but who we don't know yet. So my philosphy is to fill out a roster with vet minimum guys like Mutombo or C. Robinson or D. Davis, not spend your MLE on them.


It does not make much sense speculating without dropping names. It is my opinion that you are not even aware of the current FA depth. Give us a name of this so called "piece of the puzzle" player that you would offer the full MLE as things stands now. Or are you talking in terms of fantasy? I would certainly appreciate a realistic name and scenario so that you arguement will sit better with us.

alby
07-20-2005, 10:19 AM
Sometimes signing for the sake of signing someone is a bad mistake. Yes we need a backup center, but let's not "settle" on anyone, I'm actually happy the Mavs front office is being somewhat patient this offseason. I think that they believe DJ will be a player, so have faith guys. =]

LRB
07-20-2005, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by: echo

Do you honestly think signing Mutombo for the MLE brings us a championship? I don't, which is why I would not consider using the MLE on him. Could he help? Possibly. But unless you think he's the last piece of the puzzle, I want to invest part (or all) of the MLE on a guy who is either still performing at a high level that will get more than 15 mpg, or a young guy who has been a productive player but can potentially do more. You add talent and potential, regardless of position, and it better enables you to make trades for guys that fill needs. Had the Mavs signed Swift, Rahim, Marshall or Jaric you can more easily shop players like KVH, Terry or Stackhouse. Gadzuric was the type of center I spend the MLE on (young and has been a productive player) not someone like Mutombo. At his point there isn't a C or PF worth the MLE, so I'm all for going after the top talent regardless of position. Of course the CBA waived player list could possibly dump some talented players into the pool as well, but who we don't know yet. So my philosphy is to fill out a roster with vet minimum guys like Mutombo or C. Robinson or D. Davis, not spend your MLE on them.


I still haven't seen a realistic name that you think that we could sign as a FA or trade for who will be a better backup center than Mutumbo. Of course I love the theory, i/expressions/anim_roller.gif, that you seem to espouse that says forget winning the championship this year just get as much talent potential as you can and go for it next year. Of course when next year arrives it's this year and then we have to prepare to win it next year and so on. Next year never arrives, but we're always preparing. Sorry that flatout sucks to me. I don't think that there is any player that we can get in FA or by trade that will 99% or heck even 50% guarrantee that we win the championship this coming season. I think our chances of winning are going to be worse without Michael Finley than with him. However, I still that we have a chance if we get some lucky breaks. But right now all roads lead through SA to get to the Finals if you're in the west. Mutumbo gives us the very best chance out of anyone that I think we have a reasonable shot at getting to get past SA. Sure Mutumbo won't do it by himself, but at least he gives us a better shot.

But if you think there is some nonimaginary, flesh and blood, NBA player who we could reasonably acquire by trade of via FA then name him. There are tons of better players to sign in fantasy land than Mutumbo, but I'd like a real world name please.

echo
07-20-2005, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: echo

Do you honestly think signing Mutombo for the MLE brings us a championship? I don't, which is why I would not consider using the MLE on him. Could he help? Possibly. But unless you think he's the last piece of the puzzle, I want to invest part (or all) of the MLE on a guy who is either still performing at a high level that will get more than 15 mpg, or a young guy who has been a productive player but can potentially do more. You add talent and potential, regardless of position, and it better enables you to make trades for guys that fill needs. Had the Mavs signed Swift, Rahim, Marshall or Jaric you can more easily shop players like KVH, Terry or Stackhouse. Gadzuric was the type of center I spend the MLE on (young and has been a productive player) not someone like Mutombo. At his point there isn't a C or PF worth the MLE, so I'm all for going after the top talent regardless of position. Of course the CBA waived player list could possibly dump some talented players into the pool as well, but who we don't know yet. So my philosphy is to fill out a roster with vet minimum guys like Mutombo or C. Robinson or D. Davis, not spend your MLE on them.


I still haven't seen a realistic name that you think that we could sign as a FA or trade for who will be a better backup center than Mutumbo. Of course I love the theory, i/expressions/anim_roller.gif, that you seem to espouse that says forget winning the championship this year just get as much talent potential as you can and go for it next year. Of course when next year arrives it's this year and then we have to prepare to win it next year and so on. Next year never arrives, but we're always preparing. Sorry that flatout sucks to me. I don't think that there is any player that we can get in FA or by trade that will 99% or heck even 50% guarrantee that we win the championship this coming season. I think our chances of winning are going to be worse without Michael Finley than with him. However, I still that we have a chance if we get some lucky breaks. But right now all roads lead through SA to get to the Finals if you're in the west. Mutumbo gives us the very best chance out of anyone that I think we have a reasonable shot at getting to get past SA. Sure Mutumbo won't do it by himself, but at least he gives us a better shot.

But if you think there is some nonimaginary, flesh and blood, NBA player who we could reasonably acquire by trade of via FA then name him. There are tons of better players to sign in fantasy land than Mutumbo, but I'd like a real world name please.

Most of the guys I offer the MLE to are now gone. Disappointed the Mavs didn't make any attempt to sign Gadzuric, Swift, Korver or Marshall, guys I thought who could be had around the MLE. Guys like Chandler, Dalembert, and Curry are still out there but would require a S&T. Even if it's unlikely you get these guys, at least you should make an effort and talk to them. The one guy left I give the MLE to is Jaric. Why? He's a talent that can play three positions, has one of the best assist-to-turnover ratios in the NBA as well as one of the best steal-to-turnover-ratios in the NBA. Signing him gives the team more flexibility, even if Finley walks, to do a future trade for the big man that alluded us in free agency.

If Jaric goes I likely split the MLE. I don't offer Mutombo the full MLE to play 15 mpg at his age. I only do that if I think he's the last piece of the puzzle. Mutombo doesn't help us beat SA IMO. I would offer part of the MLE to a younger guy like Hunter or Pachulia or R. Evans. If I don't get one of these guys (I know Evans isn't a center) then I try to get one of the vets (Mutombo, Davis, C. Robinson, etc) near the vet minimum while giving DJ minutes. We have to make a decision on DJ in one year, and we can't do that if he doesn't play. Other minimum (or near minimum) players I'm looking at are: Kapano, Rush, J. Barry, Jacobsen, D. Brown; all but Barry are young and have an upside. Otherwise we wait until the waived players are announced. I think we missed the boat on some players so I hope we don't overspend on a guy like Mutombo.

FYI: Thought I would say that I think we are a top 4 team in the West this season, but a more realistic championship contender the following season. Why? The maturity of Josh, Devin, Marquis and DJ. Of course if we can get someone like Pierce then that may change.

kg_veteran
07-20-2005, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by: echo
You forget how useless Mutombo was for a few years before landing in Houston.

Not true. He had one season where he was injured (02-03). Otherwise, he's been very effective everywhere he's been.


He's a nice fit in that system, but NO WAY do you pay a guy that old the full MLE for 2-3 years to maybe play 15 mpg.

Present me with an alternative that makes more sense for the team at backup center that they could get for a 2 year MLE contract.


Too risky.

How so? If he flames out (which is pretty unlikely, IMO), you just sign somebody else next year. Or make a trade. You still have a number of options even if he doesn't work out. But all you're asking him to do is be the backup center. He was one of the best backup centers in the league last year. I see no reason why he couldn't do it again this year.


Besides there is much better young talent (not necessarily centers) that can be had for the MLE.

Again, name some.


If I had to choose between say Jaric or Mutombo for the MLE it's a no-brainer.

Jaric's not coming to Dallas. He's represented by Bill Duffy. If, however: a) he were willing and b) you were resigned to waiting to compete for a title down the road a couple of years, then that might make some sense.


Mutombo for the vet minimum? Go for it. But don't waste your MLE on him while other teams are signing guys like Rahim, Swift, Marshall, etc for the MLE.

To call it wasting the MLE it'd either have to be too long of a contract or there'd have to be a more attractive player willing to come to Dallas for the MLE.


Do you honestly think signing Mutombo for the MLE brings us a championship?

Nobody that can be added for the MLE is going to bring a team a championship.


You add talent and potential, regardless of position, and it better enables you to make trades for guys that fill needs. Had the Mavs signed Swift, Rahim, Marshall or Jaric you can more easily shop players like KVH, Terry or Stackhouse.

Swift, Rahim, Marshall, and Jaric all wanted to go somewhere that they could potentially start. That wasn't going to happen in Dallas.


Gadzuric was the type of center I spend the MLE on (young and has been a productive player) not someone like Mutombo.

Well sure, but Milwaukee offered him more than the Mavs could have, so hard to criticize them there.


At his point there isn't a C or PF worth the MLE, so I'm all for going after the top talent regardless of position. Of course the CBA waived player list could possibly dump some talented players into the pool as well, but who we don't know yet. So my philosphy is to fill out a roster with vet minimum guys like Mutombo or C. Robinson or D. Davis, not spend your MLE on them.

I'm cool with it if they can get Mutombo for the vet minimum. I'm just saying I'd be willing to overpay for a highly effective guy like Mutombo who has playoff experience and veteran respect in the paint.


Most of the guys I offer the MLE to are now gone. Disappointed the Mavs didn't make any attempt to sign Gadzuric, Swift, Korver or Marshall, guys I thought who could be had around the MLE. Guys like Chandler, Dalembert, and Curry are still out there but would require a S&T. Even if it's unlikely you get these guys, at least you should make an effort and talk to them.

I'm curious. How do you know whether the Mavs tried to sign those guys or not?


I would offer part of the MLE to a younger guy like Hunter or Pachulia or R. Evans.

I could go for that. I'd prefer Pachulia first, Hunter second.


Other minimum (or near minimum) players I'm looking at are: Kapano, Rush, J. Barry, Jacobsen, D. Brown; all but Barry are young and have an upside.

Those are all cool with me too, as long as they don't prevent us from getting a backup center.


Otherwise we wait until the waived players are announced. I think we missed the boat on some players so I hope we don't overspend on a guy like Mutombo.

I won't be heartbroken if we don't get Mutombo, and perhaps it's best that we don't simply because the team appears to be gearing for a title window in 2-3 years, but if you're looking to compete next year for a title, you won't do any better at backup center than Mutombo.

echo
07-20-2005, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by: kg_veteran

Originally posted by: echo
You forget how useless Mutombo was for a few years before landing in Houston.

Not true. He had one season where he was injured (02-03). Otherwise, he's been very effective everywhere he's been.


He's a nice fit in that system, but NO WAY do you pay a guy that old the full MLE for 2-3 years to maybe play 15 mpg.

Present me with an alternative that makes more sense for the team at backup center that they could get for a 2 year MLE contract.


Too risky.

How so? If he flames out (which is pretty unlikely, IMO), you just sign somebody else next year. Or make a trade. You still have a number of options even if he doesn't work out. But all you're asking him to do is be the backup center. He was one of the best backup centers in the league last year. I see no reason why he couldn't do it again this year.


Besides there is much better young talent (not necessarily centers) that can be had for the MLE.

Again, name some.


If I had to choose between say Jaric or Mutombo for the MLE it's a no-brainer.

Jaric's not coming to Dallas. He's represented by Bill Duffy. If, however: a) he were willing and b) you were resigned to waiting to compete for a title down the road a couple of years, then that might make some sense.


Mutombo for the vet minimum? Go for it. But don't waste your MLE on him while other teams are signing guys like Rahim, Swift, Marshall, etc for the MLE.

To call it wasting the MLE it'd either have to be too long of a contract or there'd have to be a more attractive player willing to come to Dallas for the MLE.


Do you honestly think signing Mutombo for the MLE brings us a championship?

Nobody that can be added for the MLE is going to bring a team a championship.


You add talent and potential, regardless of position, and it better enables you to make trades for guys that fill needs. Had the Mavs signed Swift, Rahim, Marshall or Jaric you can more easily shop players like KVH, Terry or Stackhouse.

Swift, Rahim, Marshall, and Jaric all wanted to go somewhere that they could potentially start. That wasn't going to happen in Dallas.


Gadzuric was the type of center I spend the MLE on (young and has been a productive player) not someone like Mutombo.

Well sure, but Milwaukee offered him more than the Mavs could have, so hard to criticize them there.


At his point there isn't a C or PF worth the MLE, so I'm all for going after the top talent regardless of position. Of course the CBA waived player list could possibly dump some talented players into the pool as well, but who we don't know yet. So my philosphy is to fill out a roster with vet minimum guys like Mutombo or C. Robinson or D. Davis, not spend your MLE on them.

I'm cool with it if they can get Mutombo for the vet minimum. I'm just saying I'd be willing to overpay for a highly effective guy like Mutombo who has playoff experience and veteran respect in the paint.


Most of the guys I offer the MLE to are now gone. Disappointed the Mavs didn't make any attempt to sign Gadzuric, Swift, Korver or Marshall, guys I thought who could be had around the MLE. Guys like Chandler, Dalembert, and Curry are still out there but would require a S&T. Even if it's unlikely you get these guys, at least you should make an effort and talk to them.

I'm curious. How do you know whether the Mavs tried to sign those guys or not?


I would offer part of the MLE to a younger guy like Hunter or Pachulia or R. Evans.

I could go for that. I'd prefer Pachulia first, Hunter second.


Other minimum (or near minimum) players I'm looking at are: Kapano, Rush, J. Barry, Jacobsen, D. Brown; all but Barry are young and have an upside.

Those are all cool with me too, as long as they don't prevent us from getting a backup center.


Otherwise we wait until the waived players are announced. I think we missed the boat on some players so I hope we don't overspend on a guy like Mutombo.

I won't be heartbroken if we don't get Mutombo, and perhaps it's best that we don't simply because the team appears to be gearing for a title window in 2-3 years, but if you're looking to compete next year for a title, you won't do any better at backup center than Mutombo.

Hey KG! Although we disagree on Finley, at least we are not entirely on different wavelengths here.

As for Jaric? He probably doesn't come here, but I think he's the best remaining talent for the MLE. Walker will get the MLE somewhere, but I'm not going there! Why Jaric appeals to me besides his ability to play now, and positive upside? Well for one it's save to assume Finley is gone. Number two I think Jaric fits into AJ's style of play. Number three acquiring Jaric makes it much easier to move Stackhouse (even after Fin is already gone) as you could play Jaric/Terry together with Terry playing SG on offense and Jaric PG. On defense you match the undersized Terry against PG's and Jaric could easily handle SG's. Harris and Daniels get more minutes as well. Under this scenario Terry becomes our #2 option on offense (without changes he probably should be anyway) and we get a very capable defensive player who can easily run the point or swing over to the 2. He's efficient offensivley without needing to be a primary option. If Terry does bolt in free agency we are not as vulnerable next season. Anyway unlikely, but he's the guy most worthy of the MLE IMO.

Mutombo? I would probably be willing to give him half the MLE for two years, no more. I honestly would not want to play him 80 games, but I admit he would be a nice mentor for DJ (who I think we need to give some minutes to) and an asset in the playoffs. I don't think he gets us over the hump, but I'm not oppossed to bringing him in. If he demands a full MLE for 2-3 years I pass. Honestly if money isn't an issue I think he stays in Houston for the vet minimum. He seems to like it there and he probably has just as good of a chance at winning a championship in 2 years in Houston as he does in Dallas. His best chance would be SA.

Do I know who Dallas has contacted? Just the few names leaked from the press. Horry, and interest in Wells, an interest in the Ero guy. That's it. As far as I know, no one has come to town or no doubt we would have heard about it. For whatever reason it has been quiet so that leads me to believe that A) they didn't think they got get any of the names I mentioned, B) they have inside knowledge on player who will be waived in the CBA and are targeting someone there, or C) they are working on a trade. Ratliff, if waived, would obviously be a great fit here. J. Rose as well (who I like better than Finley or Stackhouse). Is Pierce obtainable without giving up Howard? Not sure, but I'm inquiring. Bonzi Wells? To be honest I would rather go with Stack/Daniels. He doesn't excite me. Finley for Croshere/Pollard? Doesn't excite me either although Pollard is servicable. Might be one of the few legit ways to move Finley via trade.

I like Pachulia, Evans and Hunter in that order, but I don't think any are worth the MLE. Still not sure if Hunter can play (and he seems to be a bit of a flake) but he is talented. Pachulia and Evans I think will be good role players for many years.

As for the guards? Most of these guys are good 3P shooters who could fill a bench role (when needed) and be an alternative to the slashers we have.

As for championships? I think we are a contender, but obviously not a favorite this year. SA is going to be tough to beat. Phoenix, depending on JJ (the best FA SG on the market this year), will be there too. Houston is getting better. We are around 3 or 4 in the West. I honestly think we have a better shot in a year or two once some of our younger guys get more experience and players adjust to AJ's system. We couldn't quite get over the hump with Dirk/Nash/Fin, but Dirk is still a star and young enough to build around. Howard is a piece of the puzzle. Terry is still relatiely young and could be a piece. Harris and Daniels have loads of potential. We need one (or both) to step up. And DJ could be the wildcard. He could become a defensive monster. We have to make a decision on him this year and I don't see how we do unless he gets some time.

alby
07-20-2005, 06:27 PM
I think if we lose finley, sign jaric, and trade stack (for i'm not sure who?)

then our backcourt has considerably fallen off from previous years IMO.

FilthyFinMavs
07-21-2005, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by: LRB

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Good pickup and good value for the Rockets. Good decision for Swift, too. The Rockets are as nice a fit for his talents as he could hope to find.

I'll be interested to see how Houston addresses their situation at the guard spots, because they're still quite undersized and/or underskilled in the backcourt relative to most of the other top teams and are now dependent on trades to get the rest of their work done, but IMO this is the first real impact offseason move made by any of the Mavs' close competitors.

let's just hope that it's not Michael Finley.

If i'm Finley and looking at my options to start for a contender I mean is there any other team than the Rockets? I think he'd start for the Pacers also but for a team that can probably contend for a title the Rockets wouldn't be a bad option and I wouldn't rule them out. I had a feeling the Rockets were gonna have a huge offseason. I didn't want to believe it but I had that gut feeling they would be major players and they are doing all of this over the cap.


When are we going to atleast start hearing rumors about the Mavs even thinking about singing someone? They media waited until Horry had already signed to say he had interests in the Mavs.

echo
07-21-2005, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

If i'm Finley and looking at my options to start for a contender I mean is there any other team than the Rockets? I think he'd start for the Pacers also but for a team that can probably contend for a title the Rockets wouldn't be a bad option and I wouldn't rule them out. I had a feeling the Rockets were gonna have a huge offseason. I didn't want to believe it but I had that gut feeling they would be major players and they are doing all of this over the cap.


When are we going to atleast start hearing rumors about the Mavs even thinking about singing someone? They media waited until Horry had already signed to say he had interests in the Mavs.

I think the Rockets are a possibility for Finley. I think they are a lock to sign Stoudemire at PG, so unless they prefer a more defensive minded starting SG, Finley would be a good fit there. If they sign Finley then I wouldn't mind having J. Barry as a 3P specialist here.

Indiana? I don't think he starts over S. Jackson, but in a 2/3 rotation with Jackson and Artest he gets 30 mpg easily. I think the Pacers are more likely to get to the Finals than Houston as they don't have to go through SA to get there. Remember they didn't have Artest last season and had to fight through all those suspensions and injuries.

Denver is interested too, and he probably starts there, but Finley doesn't make them a Top 4 contender in the west IMO unless your sold on Melo, A. Miller, K. Martin and a healthy Camby.

alby
07-22-2005, 12:30 AM
If he goes to Indiana, I hope pacer fans are not expecting a Reggie Miller type player, because they would be pretty disappointed. Reggie was one of those players that raised his level of play in the playoffs, Finley isn't. He'll be a nice addition for them however, I just hope they don't expect too much out of Findawg. If they did add Fin though, Indiana is right there back into the thick of things in the East with New Jersey also making a jump.

I have tons of friends who are from / live in Houston, and essentially all of them have told me that they don't want Finley..

NYCdog
07-22-2005, 07:39 PM
First off good deal for any team when you can get Swift for the MLE. I though this was pay day for this kid....


I think they are a lock to sign Stoudemire at PG

Despite the usual reasons (DS has on off-season home in Houston, the Rockets are a contender witha starting spot to offer) I DO NOT this he will end up in Houston.

For DS, it all comes down to money, which Cleveland can offer more then the Rockets LLE, I believe. Cleveland has contacted him already. The Rockets will have to rework there guard spots via trade, especially now that they have 7 guards on the roster with the addition of #24 pick Luther Head. Someone’s gonna be traded for sure......


When are we going to atleast start hearing rumors about the Mavs even thinking about singing someone?

Funny thing is, when the Mavs front office is most quiet, that's when a major deal happens.

Last year, I thought Dampier would be sporting a Knicks uniform, then Dallas came out of no where. The year before, the 'Toine..or 'Twan deals came with no prior news leaked of this possibly happening.

So given what has happened in the past, the eerie silence that emanates from the Mavs front office should have Mavs fans should be itching with anticipation by now.

FilthyFinMavs
07-22-2005, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by: alby
If he goes to Indiana, I hope pacer fans are not expecting a Reggie Miller type player, because they would be pretty disappointed. Reggie was one of those players that raised his level of play in the playoffs, Finley isn't. He'll be a nice addition for them however, I just hope they don't expect too much out of Findawg. If they did add Fin though, Indiana is right there back into the thick of things in the East with New Jersey also making a jump.

I have tons of friends who are from / live in Houston, and essentially all of them have told me that they don't want Finley..


I don't think your friends opinion of Finley really matters. I could be wrong but I doubt they determine the outcome if Finley were to sign with the Rockets.




Last year, I thought Dampier would be sporting a Knicks uniform, then Dallas came out of no where. The year before, the 'Toine..or 'Twan deals came with no prior news leaked of this possibly happening.

So given what has happened in the past, the eerie silence that emanates from the Mavs front office should have Mavs fans should be itching with anticipation by now.





Hopefully. I just have a feeling this team is spending too much time on smaller issues as the Fin release rather than working on deals to bring players in. Could have a lot to do with not knowing what players will be released due to the new CBA but I just want atleast a rumor. Someone to get excited about. I'm not really excited by a Bonzi Wells rumor.

NYCdog
07-23-2005, 11:58 AM
News Regarding Finley.....*WARNING* to be taken with grain of salt as RealGM svcks a$s as a news source.

Stalling Rockets, Awaiting Vet Backcourt (http://rockets.realgm.com/articles/67/20050723/stalling_rockets_awaiting_vet_backcourt/)
Marcus James - 23rd July, 2005 4:59 AM

After agreeing to terms with Stromile Swift, the Rockets frontline seems to be finished. But work still needs to be done, apparently the backcourt is still awaiting some moves. The Houston Rockets have tried to bring Damon Stoudamire to Houston via the LLE, both sides are happy about the discussions, but just nothing's official.

The Rockets still have a glaring hole at the 2-guard position. Suitors exist such as Greg Buckner, but the Houston Rockets are waiting on Dallas Mavericks Guard/Forward, Micheal Finley. It is apparent, that the Rockets are stalling for a veteran backcourt, with some long-range shooting, intelligence, and intangibles that can help out the versatile front-line.

Finley, who most likely will be cut from the amnesty clause, has options such as the Heat, Suns, Pacers, and Rockets. Steve Nash, Finley?s former teammate and MVP this year, has already expressed his interest in Finley returning to play with him. Considering the Suns have already locked up their money in on Raja Bell from the market, and the contract situation involving Joe Johnson and the Suns, Micheal Finley may be a little too hard to get. Finley feels he is still capable of starting, but that is no guarantee in Phoenix.

Meanwhile, the Houston Rockets have an open spot at the 2-guard, previously mentioned, which Micheal Finley can fill in very nicely. He provides the shooting, intangibles, and the overall basketball IQ that could eventually lead the Rockets further than they suppose. With Damon Stoudamire showing heavy interest in the Rockets, a deal could come sooner and would be even sweeter if he heard Micheal Finley is coming to Houston.

What?s next on T-Mac?s to-do list?

Possibly calling out Finley, too.

Remaining in Texas, joining the team that you bumped out of the playoffs last season, starting in a team that could compete heavily for the championship is all in Micheal Finley?s plan.

As for Stoudamire, staying at home, in Houston, joining a team purely for winning purposes and getting to play along side two All-Stars, in the caliber of Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming, is an enticing deal too.

There?s 1 roadblock. How would the money be distributed?

Would Finley be willing to come here at the vet?s minimum and Damon at the price of the Lower-Level Exception?

Doubt it all you want, but if they hear one way or another that they both could possibly come to Houston, it would just make it that much nicer and the veteran backcourt could join forces in Houston.

NYCdog
07-23-2005, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by: alby

I have tons of friends who are from / live in Houston, and essentially all of them have told me that they don't want Finley..

A wise man once told me....


Though originally created by: Wise Man

<u>"Friends do not let friends build basketball rosters."</u>

Take it for what its worth.... i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

chumdawg
07-23-2005, 12:07 PM
I saw some speculation somewhere that had Finley going there for Howard, Person, and Norris I think it was. I took that, too, with a grain of salt. But these days you just never know!

NYCdog
07-23-2005, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by: chumdawg
I saw some speculation somewhere that had Finley going there for Howard, Person, and Norris I think it was. I took that, too, with a grain of salt. But these days you just never know!

Umm....what Person?

Any deal the Rockets make I believe has to involve David Wesley and his expiring contract.

BTW, with Cleveland nabbing Jaric and Wilcox (Great deal for them), this should clear the way for Damon Stoudemire to be a Rocket.

MrCheerios
07-23-2005, 03:59 PM
Damon Stoudamire ain't gonna make a bit of difference for Houston.

alby
07-24-2005, 12:16 AM
its a big upgrade at pg for them, how is that not a difference.

MrCheerios
07-24-2005, 04:25 AM
Dude's 32 years old. He's 39%FG. He's 5'10". Doesn't play much defense. He's just a scorer and an inefficient one at that. Compare his stats to Sura and they're not better except for points. Give Sura 14FGA per game (six 3PA/game) and he can score 15ppg at 39% too. If stoudamire's such a good pg, why aren't teams even interested in him? Cavs would rather have Jaric, Magic would rather have Dooling (don't know why), and Washington would rather have Daniels. In this free agency, there's a reason nobody's offered him anything at this point.

aexchange
07-27-2005, 03:59 AM
greetings from china...

swift is perhaps the most overrated player in the past 6 or 7 years not named juwan howard.

the rockets now have two of the most overrated players in the history of the nba in the past decade. i read this news and i chuckle. having the rockets upgrade the pf position from howard to swift is like passing on dog poop for steaming cat wizz.

for everything that howard lacks athletically and that swift has, they are complete opposites when it comes to basketball IQ.

swift is a complete donkey.

alby
07-27-2005, 11:34 AM
haha...

LRB
07-27-2005, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by: aexchange
for everything that howard lacks athletically and that swift has, they are complete opposites when it comes to basketball IQ.

swift is a complete donkey.

Well the Rockets have been trying to fill the void that Stevie "Dumber than a Rock" Francis left. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif