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View Full Version : Joe Johnson TRADED to Hawks for Diaw and Two First Round Picks


madape
08-01-2005, 11:32 AM
JJ going to Hawks for Diaw, 2 picks

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 1, 2005 12:00 AM

Asked by Suns brass whether he would rather be in Atlanta starring on a losing team or a cast member in Phoenix on a winning team, Joe Johnson picked the Hawks.

He will get his wish Tuesday in a sign-and-trade deal.

Trade-talk wheels began turning faster Thursday when Johnson told Suns Managing Partner Robert Sarver that he did not want him to match a five-year, $69.6 million offer with Atlanta.
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Johnson will be the second starter traded this summer from the Suns' conference finals team.

Phoenix will sign Johnson to Atlanta's terms and trade him to the Hawks for two-year guard Boris Diaw, two first-round picks (a protected Atlanta one and another the Hawks acquired) and a $4.9 million trade exception that can be used to offset salary gaps in a future deal.

The arrow points both ways in the blame game. Johnson was upset that the Suns would not give him $50 million over six years last summer and then offered $60 million over five years last month as a counter to Atlanta's maximum deal.

He had hoped Phoenix would open July with a huge offer, became upset when he was asked to choose between offers and rejected a Suns request to restructure the $69.6 million.

His Atlanta deal will include a $20 million payment this month.

Johnson told several people that being a third option on the Suns was "unacceptable." He reportedly resented teammates' star treatment and disliked Amaré Stoudemire after a March halftime incident in Miami.

After Dwyane Wade's 19-point half, Stoudemire barked at Johnson in front of the team: "Are you going to play any (expletive) defense?"

Stoudemire got seven shots in the next game and then sat out two with ankle inflammation. Johnson played his best ball after that but told friends he would never re-sign.

Many close to the situation are adamant that Sarver was not willing to pay for his mistake from last summer, when he ignored advice to give Johnson an extra $5 million over six years.

Those people said Sarver never intended to match the offer and was looking for an out, particularly after issuing internal promises. Johnson provided an out by saying he would rather run the point in Atlanta.

Johnson did tell ESPN.com that he would work hard and put everything behind him if Phoenix matched Atlanta's offer, but Sarver did not want to pay steeply for a player who did not want to be with him and possibly could disrupt team chemistry.

If Phoenix had matched Atlanta's offer, a cash call may have gone out because of $55 million going to starters, an over-budget team payroll and a projected $72 million payroll (with a $10 million tax hit) in 2006-2007.

A star player - not Johnson, because of a front-loaded deal - probably would have been traded next year.

Losing money is said to be not an option for Sarver, even if a title would boost the franchise's value.

The ordeal did not go to a management committee vote.

Phoenix might recover if Dallas waives Michael Finley, as expected, under the amnesty rule.

The Mavericks want to find a trade to keep Finley from a rival but may not find a taker for his contract, with three years and $51.8 million left.

Phoenix could sign him for a minimum deal because he will collect all of his Dallas money and would be lured by his former team, close friend Steve Nash and a possible starting job.

The Suns also could get help by using the trade exception during the season if a non-contender wants to dump a salary.

Phoenix has tried to acquire Diaw, 23, before and sees the 6-foot-8 French guard as the potential backup point to Nash. He defends and runs well but lacks a long-distance touch.

dirno2000
08-01-2005, 11:43 AM
Pheonix won't blink at matching Johnson, and won't blink at extending Amare. In addition, they will probably sign another solid rotation player with their exception. This is a young team with an owner that doesn't mind spending a little money. Hopeing that they are a one-year wonder that will fall of the face of the Earth a'la the 2003 Dallas Mavericks is... wishful thinking.

You want to rethink this?

madape
08-01-2005, 11:50 AM
OK, I was definitely wrong on that. I misjudged the thrifiness of the Suns ownership. I will also say the contradictory opinion on this board, that Phoenix would let Johnson walk for nothing, was also wrong. Sarver was at least able to get something in return for his franchise cornerstone. Diaw and two first round picks may not be equal value, but they are better than nothing. I think we as Mavs fans can rejoice that a conference rival lost out on it's #1 off-season priority. But I would also caution everyone by noting that in addition to the much valued "flexibility" that our owner seems so intent on acquiring, the Suns were also able to land three prospects. It's not a particularly great haul, but it's a significantly better return than what the Mavs got for Nash, and what they appear to be on track to get for Finley (which is absolutely nothing).

Some cheapskate owners are just better than others.

EricaLubarsky
08-01-2005, 11:56 AM
It is a genius move. JJ wanted the hell away from Phoenix, and the Suns got something out of it without having to pay JJ. Then again, he was theirs to throw around since he was a restricted free agent, so there wasnt anything JJ could have done had they just matched.

chumdawg
08-01-2005, 12:15 PM
Personally I don't think they are in such bad shape without him. Stoudemire is a still a mofo. And they still have three superstars. In fact, this move might be just the thing necessary to establish a sort of pecking structure on their team and give gritty role players such as Bell (and perhaps Diaw?) an opportunity to provide something that the Big Five last year were unable or unwilling to provide.

jthig32
08-01-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by: madape
OK, I was definitely wrong on that. I misjudged the thrifiness of the Suns ownership. I will also say the contradictory opinion on this board, that Phoenix would let Johnson walk for nothing, was also wrong. Sarver was at least able to get something in return for his franchise cornerstone. Diaw and two first round picks may not be equal value, but they are better than nothing. I think we as Mavs fans can rejoice that a conference rival lost out on it's #1 off-season priority. But I would also caution everyone by noting that in addition to the much valued "flexibility" that our owner seems so intent on acquiring, the Suns were also able to land three prospects. It's not a particularly great haul, but it's a significantly better return than what the Mavs got for Nash, and what they appear to be on track to get for Finley (which is absolutely nothing).

Some cheapskate owners are just better than others.

So you think the Suns would have gotten anything out of this if JJ had been an unrestricted free agent?

Gimme a break. Totally different set of circumstances. Suns had control in this one because he was restricted.

Drbio
08-01-2005, 01:40 PM
What the hell is Atlanta thinking though giving up two first rounders? I know the Suns had the upper hand, but they have to have realized that Johnson being offered 70 mil was too much for them to match. I still believe the Suns were bluffing on matching the offer and Atlanta buckled.

kg_veteran
08-01-2005, 01:43 PM
The Hawks were thinking, "What if we guess wrong?" The only pick of their own that they gave up was lottery-protected, and I believe the other one is as well. The Suns probably won't see those picks for a few years. The Hawks didn't give up as much as it might seem.

Nash13
08-01-2005, 01:55 PM
The Suns are not as much of a threat. As a matter of fact, Dallas, even without Finley, is better than them.

The Suns lost what made them them, an unorthodox lineup. They will have to go traditional, which will put Amare at the 4. Now that Amare will be a four, Marion will be a three. What that means is Marion, and probably Amare, will be guarded by people who can actually stay in front of them.

LRB
08-01-2005, 02:19 PM
Wonder if Cuban is having pipe dreams of trading for JJ with Atlanta? He would match the type of player that Cuban said that he wanted for Fin, but I have no idea what we could give them that would make it worth their while, so it would have to be just a pipe dream IMO.

rakesh.s
08-01-2005, 02:22 PM
I don't see a big man on the Hawks roster outside of Jason Collier -- Al Harrington is a small forward.

They drafted two guards this year...what the hell is atlanta doing? How can you play five guards? Do you want Josh Smith guarding Shaq? It makes no sense..

35 wins, if Joe Johnson is the next Tracy McGrady, otherwise, they're not going to win more than 30 games with the current roster.

dirno2000
08-01-2005, 02:31 PM
I don't see a big man on the Hawks roster outside of Jason Collier -- Al Harrington is a small forward.

They drafted two guards this year...what the hell is atlanta doing? How can you play five guards? Do you want Josh Smith guarding Shaq? It makes no sense..They still have plenty of money to sign a center plus a spare to back him up. They have so many young cheap players that they can afford to overpay Hunter, Pachulia or possibly Curry.

I do agree that they have an odd make up. I don't know that Johnson is a full time PG, but apparently that's where they intend to play him.

kg_veteran
08-01-2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by: dirno2000

I don't see a big man on the Hawks roster outside of Jason Collier -- Al Harrington is a small forward.

They drafted two guards this year...what the hell is atlanta doing? How can you play five guards? Do you want Josh Smith guarding Shaq? It makes no sense..They still have plenty of money to sign a center plus a spare to back him up. They have so many young cheap players that they can afford to overpay Hunter, Pachulia or possibly Curry.

I do agree that they have an odd make up. I don't know that Johnson is a full time PG, but apparently that's where they intend to play him.

Joe Johnson is a HUGE PG. He's going to brutalize some opposing PGs this season.

FINtastic
08-01-2005, 09:01 PM
This offseason has been pretty bad for phoenix, especially if Cuban manages to trade Finley to the East.

Lost:
Johnson
Richardson
21st draft pick (that turned into Nate Robinson, who could be a really nice player, especially in Phoenix's system)
Voskuhl (well, okay, not much of a loss there)
possibly Hunter

Added:
Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Boris Diaw
2 future 1st rounders (at least one of which is lottery protected)

If they do manage to resign Hunter, and nab Finley, then they will have redeemed themselves. But if not, they may have slammed the door on their title chances for the next 4 or 5 years.

V2M
08-02-2005, 12:10 AM
They've obviously lost quite a bit but please don't underestimate a team that has Amare, Nash and Marion.

FilthyFinMavs
08-02-2005, 01:13 AM
Yea its funny how I read this board and see how Mavs fans try to debate whether or not the Suns are any good now as if they are trying to get themselves to believe it. Q-Rich and Joe Johnson didn't run that team. Might I remind you that they beat us in a series without Joe Johnson and Q-Rich was non-existent. As long as Nash is playing mvp-caliber the Suns are a team to be reckon with. Amare is only going up from here while you can depend on Shawn Marion to give you another all star season. All the Suns need is that spot up shooter and if they can make Q-Rich look like a threat from outside I can imagine they can with just about any shooting guard who has range.

Nash13
08-02-2005, 02:10 AM
FFM, i don't think anyone's trying to say that QRich and JJ ran that team, but they were certainly more than role players. Let's take Richardson for example. When you watched the Suns play, it seemed like he was only a shooter. But he also had the ability to post up and score around the basket efficiently. And Joe Johnson was, imo, more important to that team than Marion. He was a taller, poor man's Nash. He had the ability to create his own shot and create shots for others. He was asked to be a SG and a PG. And it can be debated that he was the Suns' best defender.

The Suns in the end will be fine, but they will not be even close to what they once were.

Thespiralgoeson
08-02-2005, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by: LRB
Wonder if Cuban is having pipe dreams of trading for JJ with Atlanta? He would match the type of player that Cuban said that he wanted for Fin, but I have no idea what we could give them that would make it worth their while, so it would have to be just a pipe dream IMO.

I was thinking the exact same thing. JJ would be such an amazing accquisition, one that I think would probably put us over the top. I'd honestly rather have JJ here than Paul Pierce, if for no other reason that we wouldn't have to worry whether he could play with Dirk or not.

Jason Terry
Joe Johnson
Josh Howard
Dirk Nowitzki
Erick Dampier

sounds like a championship lineup to me... but like you say, it's just a pipe dream.

madape
08-02-2005, 09:19 AM
Despite Breakout Season, Suns Better Off Without Johnson

In an off-season that has produced one wacky transaction after another - from the Milwaukee Bucks offering $47 million to, yes, Bobby Simmons to the Knicks shelling out $10 mil a year in order for Larry Brown to live out his “dream” – there has not been a more puzzling development than the Joe Johnson-to-Atlanta saga.

Whether you feel – as I do – the Bucks grossly overspent this summer in landing not only Simmons but also re-upping with franchise player Michael Redd (six years, $90-96 million) and Dan Gadzuric (six years, $36 million), at least the franchise and its fans have a real sense of optimism heading into the upcoming season. The “Larrygate” scandal was a complete joke with a far-too-predictable outcome, but nevertheless Brown’s Gotham arrival instantly assures the Knicks will be much improved.

But the expected Joe Johnson-to-Atlanta sign-and-trade scenario, which is expected to go down on Tuesday when the league’s moratorium on signings is lifted at noon EST, is both baffling and tragic.

Free agency is all about business and looking out for number one, but here’s a player in Johnson whose career got off to a less-than-desirable start in Boston. While the Celtics were quick to rid themselves of Johnson early on in his rookie season in 2001-2002, the Suns took a flyer on him, and as a result JJ blossomed into one of the more complete players in the league last season while Phoenix emerged into a Western Conference power.

The Suns wanted Johnson then and still very much wanted him throughout the entire off-season as he became a restricted free agent. Teammates, particularly reigning league MVP Steve Nash and Shawn Marion, openly campaigned for his return, while management vowed they would take all steps necessary in retaining his services. How could they not? Johnson is coming off a season in which he averaged 17.1 points, 5.1 rebounds and shot 46% from the field and a whopping 47.8% from beyond the arc.

Yet despite all the pleas and assurances, Johnson, seemingly a vital cog in Phoenix’s championship aspirations, now finds himself in, of all NBA destinations, Atlanta?

Yes, that’s right. Atlanta, where the lowly Hawks are coming off the heels of a league-worst 13-69 record last season. Atlanta, where, on a good night, 5,000 faithful will show up to Phillips Arena to watch their beloved team.

While the Hawks have been able to stockpile some interesting pieces through the draft the last two years, they don’t figure to be anywhere near competitive for at least three more years. Not in the Eastern Conference, where the likes of Indiana, Detroit, Miami, New Jersey, Chicago, Washington and now Cleveland all expect to be playoff fixtures.

Contrast the Hawks’ dismal situation to Johnson’s former team in Phoenix, where the Suns have quietly had one of the more productive off-seasons in the league with the additions of Kurt Thomas and Raja Bell, and you have to wonder where Johnson’s head is at, especially when the Suns figure to be even better this season than last year’s 62-win squad.

But that’s right, Johnson isn’t about winning. You could say he’s all about the money, but when you consider that Phoenix was ready to match the five-year, $70 million offer that the Hawks coughed up, it’s about more than that, too.

In the end, Johnson leaving the desert for the Hawks is about fame, about being “The Man.” Johnson was a complimentary part in Phoenix - a valuable one, mind you - but in Atlanta the spotlight – whatever spotlight there is in that city – will be focused squarely on JJ. He’ll step in right away and not only be the go-to guy but the leader and face of the franchise.

Johnson will also be playing his favorite position, it seems: point guard.

“I love the idea (of the Hawks inserting Johnson as the team’s starting point guard). I’d love that, having the ball in my hands,” Johnson recently told ESPN.com’s Marc Stein. “I think I’m a great shooter, but I think that’s where I’m most effective, making decisions.”

With a myriad of athletic small forwards on the Hawks’ roster who can run the floor, Johnson will surely get the opportunity to be more of a distributor. But unlike in Phoenix, where Johnson was hardly considered the focus of opposing defenses, he’ll surely be the target of numerous double and perhaps even triple-teams this season in Atlanta, and it remains to be seen how he’ll adapt.

Even if the Hawks show improvement this season, and they should, they’ll be lucky to win more than 25 games. Maybe they’ll win 30 in JJ’s second year, and perhaps hover around .500 and compete for a playoff spot in year three. By that time, Phoenix may very well have won a championship.

The Suns, though they would have liked to have Johnson back, aren’t about to crumble anytime soon. In fact, they’re better off without Johnson - and his big ego - at this point.

On paper, yes, Phoenix will hurt without Johnson’s versatility out on the floor. But don’t discount what GM Bryan Colangelo has been able to accomplish this summer.

Colangelo went out and acquired Thomas from the Knicks for Quentin Richardson (I’m going to go out on a limb right here and say that Thomas’ acquisition was the biggest move of the summer by any team, just as far as the impact Thomas will bring to the Suns from a toughness standpoint) and signed free-agent Raja Bell, a tough defender and a very underrated ball-handler and shooter in his own right. With those two moves alone, even with Johnson’s departure, you’d have to consider Phoenix as a legitimate contender.

As valuable as JJ was to the Suns last season, the core of the team remains built around Amare Stoudemire, Nash and Marion (even though "The Matrix" was less than stellar in last spring’s playoffs). Coughing up, as the Hawks are seemingly prepared to do, $20 million up front to a player who may very well have been a malcontent had he returned just was not worth the risk for Phoenix.

The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. JJ will find that out soon enough.

But that’s okay. At least he’ll be regarded as “The Man” for one of the NBA’s worst franchises.

Kostas.Bolos@realgm.com

dirno2000
08-02-2005, 09:20 AM
Might I remind you that they beat us in a series without Joe Johnson and Q-Rich was non-existent. As long as Nash is playing mvp-caliber the Suns are a team to be reckon with.Richardson didn't shoot the ball well but I wouldn't call him non-existent...he pulled down 7 boards a game from the 2-guard spot...that was huge.

You're right though, if Nash can still play at the level the played at last season I doubt the Suns drop very far. I felt like he was playing over his head last year, especially in the playoffs. With an extra big on the floor he won't have as much open space to operate in and instead of having that chip on his shoulder he's now the MVP and every PG in the league will be trying to show him up. I don't think he can do it again, but I didn't think he could do it last year.

FINtastic
08-02-2005, 09:20 AM
I'm not saying that Phoenix won't be good. However, they aren't on the same level as the Spurs (barring a major Duncan injury), and they probably will get passed up by some other teams as well. And I know some people are trying to spin this as not that big of loss since the Suns beat the Mavs 4-2 without Johnson and Richardson anyways. There are a few points to make on why that reasoning is a bit deceptive.

First of all, while Johnson was out for half of Game 2 and all of the next four games, he still managed to make a impact on Game 1. Without Johnson's 25 points on 52% shooting (as well as 3 of 4 on 3PT), Phoenix may have still won, but it probably would have a different game. Second, while Richardson didn't play his best play his best basketball during that series, he still gave the Suns 11 points and 6.5 boards a game, but most of all he was a player that defenses respected because of his ability to explode for 30 at any moment. Defenses are going to be a lot more willing to bring their shooting guard to help on Nash when Raja Bell is out there than when Richardson is out there. Last of all, Steve Nash played the series of his life. He's never had a three game stretch like that before, and I have serious doubts that he will do it again.

Sure, we all know that Stoudemire, Marion, and Nash are darn good players. However, they just don't seem to have a lot of support right now. Not to mention, they will probably have to switch up their run and gun fastbreak due to the styles of the players they lost and gained. They are a lot less scary than they could have been if they didn't have such a cheapskate owner.

DwD
08-02-2005, 09:32 AM
Without Joe Johnson, the Suns might have conceivably lost a few games that might have cost them the home-court and may have given them a different seeding in the play-offs - he was a major part of their game during the regular season.

Thespiralgoeson
08-02-2005, 09:34 AM
Without JJ, Nash's job is quite a bit harder.

FilthyFinMavs
08-02-2005, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by: Nash13
FFM, i don't think anyone's trying to say that QRich and JJ ran that team, but they were certainly more than role players. Let's take Richardson for example. When you watched the Suns play, it seemed like he was only a shooter. But he also had the ability to post up and score around the basket efficiently. And Joe Johnson was, imo, more important to that team than Marion. He was a taller, poor man's Nash. He had the ability to create his own shot and create shots for others. He was asked to be a SG and a PG. And it can be debated that he was the Suns' best defender.

The Suns in the end will be fine, but they will not be even close to what they once were.

I'm not trying to knock Joe Johnson's talent. Its definately there but I think for what he did for the Suns he can be replaced. I believe he even ran some point while Nash was out taking a breather? Its just I think the Suns were successful because no one could keep up with them in the run and gun which was due to Steve Nash. Q-Rich is a great inside and out player but that's not the way the Suns were using him. He was being used as their spot up shooter and I believe that is what sort of frustrated Q-Rich which was his role on that team. Kurt Thomas and Raja Bell talentwise is a huge dropoff from Q-Rich and Joe Johnson but both players feel a need that the Suns needed last year. Defense and a big man. We will have to wait and see if that hurts their run and gun style of play.





You're right though, if Nash can still play at the level the played at last season I doubt the Suns drop very far. I felt like he was playing over his head last year, especially in the playoffs. With an extra big on the floor he won't have as much open space to operate in and instead of having that chip on his shoulder he's now the MVP and every PG in the league will be trying to show him up. I don't think he can do it again, but I didn't think he could do it last year.

I'm one of the ones who still thinks last season was a fluke. But like you said, I didn't think Nash could even play as well as he did the previous season with the Mavs and he proved me wrong. If he has that MVP-caliber season once again expect the Suns to have a nice road to the WCF.



Sure, we all know that Stoudemire, Marion, and Nash are darn good players. However, they just don't seem to have a lot of support right now. Not to mention, they will probably have to switch up their run and gun fastbreak due to the styles of the players they lost and gained. They are a lot less scary than they could have been if they didn't have such a cheapskate owner.


I don't think they need support. Joe Johnson and Q-Rich were luxaries. The Suns still have 3 all stars with the subtraction of Joe Johnson and Q-Rich and the offseason isn't over. I don't disagree that the Suns aren't as deep as they were last year but i'm just seeing a bunch of posts on this site lately talking about how the Suns have gotten worse and the Mavs should be alright. Its hard for me to think a team with 3 all stars and a couple of solid role players aren't going to make a run for the championship this year.

FINtastic
08-02-2005, 12:31 PM
I'll be interested to see how Phoenix's new players fit in. I like Raja Bell, but I don't know if he's that big of a defensive upgrade over Joe Johnson, and he certainly is worse than Joe on the offensive end. Kurt Thomas is a nice banger, but I wonder how he is going to hold up in the West at center when quite a few of the power fowards are bigger than him. I also am curious to see if he slows down the run and gun system that made Phoenix so effective last season. Maybe Phoenix comes out alright in all of this, especially if they can make a couple of signings to give them a little depth during the regular season. If they can't sign Finley and resign Hunter, then I think Phoenix comes into the season with some question marks, even with their very talented Big Three.

Thespiralgoeson
08-02-2005, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by: FINtastic Kurt Thomas is a nice banger, but I wonder how he is going to hold up in the West at center when quite a few of the power fowards are bigger than him.

You know, I think they would probably be better served keeping Hunter and starting him, and have Kurt as a 4/5 swingman off the bench.

madape
08-02-2005, 12:40 PM
Kurt Thomas is a swingman?

Pheonix knows that Stephen Hunter is a pile of crap. That's why they had to go out and get Thomas in the first place.

MrCheerios
08-02-2005, 12:42 PM
This move cements Phoenix's need for Finley. You think defenses respected Richardson? Imagine how they'll have to stay on Finley, who's actually an ace 3pt shooter rather than a chucker. Bell shoots over 40% from 3pt land too and is more than a solid defender. If the suns get those two, their sg position is set. It may not be joe johnson-level talent, but it comes at a much smaller price tag. Next year, the suns could be just as good or kurt thomas might completely destroy their gameplan. But if they get finley, it won't be the loss of johnson that will bring them down.

V2M
08-02-2005, 07:07 PM
Johnson will leave Suns for Hawks if NBA approvesAssociated Press


ATLANTA -- The Atlanta Hawks and Phoenix Suns ran into "procedural issue" Tuesday, holding up a sign-and-trade deal that would send guard Joe Johnson to the Hawks.

Joe Johnson
Guard-Forward
Phoenix Suns
Profile


2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
82 17.1 5.1 3.5 .461 .750





The Hawks wouldn't reveal the nature of the hang-up, but said the deal had not been finalized.


"At this time, there is a procedural issue regarding the reported deal with Atlanta and Phoenix that needs to be resolved," Atlanta general manager Billy Knight said in a statement released through a team spokesman. "That's all I can say at this time."


The Hawks would send Phoenix two first-round picks, second-year guard Boris Diaw and a $4.9 million trade exception for the 6-foot-8 Johnson.


Suns president Bryan Colangelo declined comment on the deal "until our business is complete."


Diaw's agent, Doug Neustadt, said his client was excited about the chance to play for a team that had the best record in the Western Conference last season.


"If this goes through, he's going to a playoff team and he is excited about going to a good team," Neustadt said.


Because Tuesday ended a monthlong moratorium on trades and signings, there was an apparent backlog for league attorneys to approve.


The 24-year-old Johnson averaged 17.1 points, 5.1 rebounds and 3.5 assists with the Suns last season. He first must sign a five-year, $69.6 million contract with Phoenix that would include a 2005-06 salary of about $20 million. He would become the Hawks' highest-paid player.


Johnson is a restricted free agent, meaning the Suns can match other offers, but he told ESPN.com last week that he asked Suns owner Robert Sarver to let him go to the Hawks. The teams then worked out a deal involving Diaw and the two first-round picks.


Diaw, also a 6-8 guard, averaged only 4.8 points and 2.6 rebounds last season.


The Hawks are coming off a league-worst 13-69 season, the poorest record in franchise history. The team hopes Johnson can play point guard and give the team an unusually big backcourt.


Josh Childress, yet another 6-8 player, finished his rookie season as the team's starting shooting guard.


The Hawks also are looking for a center to bolster a front line that already includes forwards Al Harrington, Josh Smith and the team's No. 1 pick, Marvin Williams.


The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Tuesday the team has made an offer to sign Milwaukee center Zaza Pachulia, a restricted free agent who averaged 6.2 points and 5.1 rebounds in a backup role for the Bucks last season.

SirChaz
08-04-2005, 05:03 PM
It is funny to me that someone would be concerned about Thomas being undersized at the 4/5 when the Suns played Marion at the 4 all last season.

EricaLubarsky
08-04-2005, 05:10 PM
Did I miss something or will Barbosa be the only backup for Nash next year?

on a side note, Atlanta will regret picking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul, Channing Frye and Gerald Green. Williams is this year's Milicic.

dirno2000
08-04-2005, 05:29 PM
on a side note, Atlanta will regret picking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul, Channing Frye and Gerald Green. Williams is this year's Milicic.I'd eliminate Frye, but otherwise I couldn't agree more.

dirno2000
08-09-2005, 12:44 PM
The sage continues:

-----------------------------------------------------------


BOSTON -- A judge here stepped into the feud between owners of the Atlanta Hawks on Tuesday, blocking the other members of the ownership group from removing Boston businessman Steve Belkin as managing partner.

Suffolk Superior Court Judge Allan van Gestel granted Belkin's request for a temporary injunction, saying a contract signed by all the owners last year prevents the group from voting him out.

The dispute stems from Belkin's refusal to approve a sign-and-trade deal for the Hawks to acquire guard Joe Johnson from the Phoenix Suns. As the team's NBA governor, Belkin must sign off on all trades.

Belkin had obtained a restraining order last week that prevented the other owners from voting him out of the nine-member Atlanta Spirit LLC group, which also owns the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers and the operating rights to Philips Arena.

Belkin's lawyer, John Fabiano, argued that a contract signed by all the owners last year gives Belkin, who owns 30 percent of the franchise, "the power and authority to manage the business and affairs of the team."

The five-year contract the Hawks offered Johnson -- worth about $70 million, including $20 million for the first year -- would have made him the team's highest-paid player. Atlanta would also give Phoenix two first-round picks, second-year guard Boris Diaw and a $4.9 million trade exception.

"Steve Belkin simply thinks that's too much to pay for Joe Johnson," Fabiano told the judge.

The feud between the owners has overshadowed attempts in the offseason to improve the team with the fewest wins in the NBA last

u2sarajevo
08-09-2005, 12:47 PM
If I were Joe Johnson, I think I would sign with Phoenix and let it be. Who would want to play for a team with an ownership group like that?

MavKikiNYC
08-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Stern and the other owners are going to have to get involved here.

This is a big ol' zit on the end of the league's nose.

dirno2000
08-09-2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Stern and the other owners are going to have to get involved here.

This is a big ol' zit on the end of the league's nose.That's been the biggest surprise to me. I can't believe that Stern would approve such a convoluted ownership arrangement. I do remember the Hawks being on the market for over a year so maybe he was just desperate. Whatever the case may be, he and the league look pretty bad.

kg_veteran
08-09-2005, 01:59 PM
I'm with you, Kiki. I'm really shocked that Stern has allowed this debacle to occur. He is intensely concerned with image control. He and his minions should have holed the Atlanta ownership group up in a room and refused to let them out until the issue was resolved.

dirno2000
08-12-2005, 02:47 PM
Judge reverses decision; trade to move forward

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 12, 2005 12:17 PM

A Boston judge reversed a ruling today in the Atlanta Hawks ownership battle, allowing co-owner Steve Belkin to be replaced as governor and for Phoenix’s sign-and-trade deal involving guard Joe Johnson to move forward. The trade could be final as early as today or as late as a week.

After listening to an emergency motion to dissolve the injunction he granted Tuesday, Judge Allan van Gestel ruled in favor of the eight Hawks owners who wanted to oust Belkin as governor because he was blocking the Johnson trade against their wishes.

The judge considered an affidavit that was submitted Wednesday by NBA Commissioner David Stern, who gave his approval of Belkin’s removal and argued that Belkin’s cancellation of the trade call was an action that legally bound the franchise.

Atlanta will replace Belkin as governor with co-owner Michael Gearon Jr., who then will approve the deal made July 31. Johnson will sign a five-year, $69.6 million contract, which includes a $20 million payment up front, with Phoenix and then be traded to the Hawks in exchange for guard Boris Diaw, two first-round draft choices with some lottery protections and a $4.9 million trade exception.

“The dissolution, however, is not intended and should not be construed as a ruling on the issues,” van Gestel wrote.

By van Gestel’s ruling, it appears finalization of the trade may take as long as another week. He referred to how the other owners still need to go through the proper channels in the partnership’s agreement.

That includes giving Belkin a written notice from the Hawks’ Board of Managers with a majority board vote. He can be moved if the “removable action” has not been rescinded within five days of the notice, according to the ownership agreement.

MavKikiNYC
08-19-2005, 07:22 PM
Never shoulda gone this far. Sounds like Belkin wanted to get his money out.

Aug 19, 4:28 PM EDT

Belkin Agrees to Sell Share of Hawks

By CHARLES ODUM
AP Sports Writer

ATLANTA (AP) -- Steve Belkin agreed to sell his share of the Atlanta Hawks on Friday, allowing the team to complete a trade for Phoenix guard Joe Johnson and settling a dispute that brought the owners to court.

The NBA said Belkin would leave as the team's governor and sell his 30 percent stake in the Atlanta Spirit, the nine-man group that also owns the NHL's Thrashers and Philips Arena.

The Hawks sent guard Boris Diaw, two first-round picks and a $4.9 million trade exception to the Suns for Johnson, who becomes the club's highest-paid player with a five-year deal worth about $70 million.

"Joe has tremendous upside," general manager Billy Knight said. "We feel we have one of the best up-and-coming rosters in the league."

Belkin's opposition to the trade - and refusal to OK it even though the remaining owners approved - left the Hawks in turmoil and hampered efforts to rebuild a team with a league-worst 13-69 record last season.

The other owners wanted to remove Belkin from his role as governor. Belkin went to court in Massachusetts to stop them. Finally, NBA commissioner David Stern ruled the Atlanta- and Washington-based owners, who control 70 percent of Atlanta Spirit, could remove Belkin.

The split led to negotiations and Belkin agreed to sell his share to the other owners for an undisclosed sum. The deal is expected to be completed by the end of the year.

Johnson, 24, was a crucial part of a Suns team that won an NBA-best 62 games last season, and team president Bryan Colangelo had insisted re-signing him was a top priority.

But Johnson was irritated about new owner Robert Sarver's failure to sign him before last season, then was further upset when the team made a low initial offer this offseason.

Johnson eventually called Sarver and told him he didn't want to play for Phoenix. He said he wanted to go to Atlanta, which had offered a maximum deal that included $20 million for the first year. Johnson reportedly also didn't like being No. 4 on the Suns' star pecking order behind Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion.

"Joe Johnson made us aware of his personal desires, which just didn't fit our model of building a team," Colangelo said in a statement. "We're sorry to see Joe leave and wish him nothing but the best in Atlanta."

Phoenix gets the Hawks' first-round pick, which is lottery-protected in 2006, has protection through the No. 3 pick in 2007 and has no protection in 2008. The other pick is a conditional first-round selection via either the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics.

The trade was held up for 2 1/2 weeks. Knight agreed on terms with the Suns and thought the owners were on board. But Belkin objected, saying the Hawks were giving up too much and exposing a simmering rift between the Boston-based businessman and the rest of the ownership group. Under NBA rules, a team's governor must approve all trades.

The other owners charged that Belkin was unwilling to spend big money to rebuild the Hawks. Belkin said he was more concerned with the other parts of the deal, believing the Suns would not match the contract the Hawks were offering.

Johnson averaged 17.1 points for the Suns last season and is expected to play the point in Atlanta. He will be the major part of an overhaul that began last season with a trade for Al Harrington and the drafting of Josh Smith and Josh Childress in the first round.

This year, the Hawks selected North Carolina forward Marvin Williams with the No. 2 overall pick and lured free agent center Zaza Pachulia from Milwaukee. But Johnson is the biggest acquisition of them all.

"He is a great young talent in our league and when you couple him with the young talent we currently have on the roster, I can't wait to see them mesh as a unit," coach Mike Woodson said.

Atlanta Spirit paid $250 million last year to buy the Hawks, Thrashers and Philips Arena from Time Warner. Stern said it became clear "philosophical differences" would prevent the ownership group from building a winning team as long as Belkin was on board.

"I appreciate that Steve has voluntarily resigned as NBA governor in order to ensure that the team can move forward with one voice," he said.

Michael Gearon Jr., one of the Atlanta-based owners, replaced Belkin as NBA governor.

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Drbio
08-19-2005, 08:28 PM
I still think Belkin was right. He didn't want to add the 2 first rounders when they could have signed him. Phoenix made a great bluff and Atlanta overpaid while calling it.

mary
12-20-2007, 11:58 AM
I know that PHX gets an unprotected pick from Atlanta this year (who are currently 7th, btw) -
but what happened to the other one? Anybody remember?

jthig32
12-20-2007, 12:37 PM
I think it was the Rajon Rondo pick, which they traded to Boston. I'm trying to confirm that.

DelNegro
12-20-2007, 12:41 PM
^^^ I just did. You're correct.

Through other moves the Hawks ended up with the Lakers 2006 pick. The Hawks sent that pick to Phoenix.

Phoenix drafted Rondo and traded his rights to Boston in return for a 2007 pick which Cleveland owed the Celts.

Phoenix sold that pick to Portland.

So, they've already collected on 1 of those picks and all they ended up with was a check from Paul Allen.

MavsX
12-20-2007, 01:27 PM
jesus h christ that is confusing

Dirkenstien
12-20-2007, 02:30 PM
Phoenix drafted Rondo and traded his rights to Boston in return for a 2007 pick which Cleveland owed the Celts. .


I bet they're wishing they could have that one back about now. Rondo is looking like he could be a special player and he would be a great backup PG for Nash.

alby
12-20-2007, 03:00 PM
I would take Leandro over Rajon.

Rajon is definitely a player, but how much is that due to playing along side Pierce, Ray, Garnett?
Don't get me wrong, I love Rondo's game--loved him last year, before the big 3--he had a huge run to end the season so I was glad to see Telfair and West gone =]