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alby
09-24-2005, 12:25 PM
For some reason, I feel pretty good about the Cavaliers team this year. Not only do I think that they will make the post season, but they will make some serious noise as well. While everyone will be focused on the Pacers, Pistons, and the Heat, maybe the Cavs can make a legitimate run for it. I think it's similar to what the Mavericks accomplished a few years back when everyone was keyed on the Spurs, Lakers, and the Kings. Am I that far off?

PG: Damon Jones
SG: Larry Hughes
SF: LeBron James
PF: Donyell Marshall
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas
6th: Drew Gooden

or

PG: Larry Hughes
SG: LeBron James
SF: Donyell Marshall
PF: Drew Gooden
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas
6th: Damon Jones

are damn good teams imo.

EricaLubarsky
09-24-2005, 02:38 PM
I definitely think playing along side LeBron will help Hughes' career. He's never been able to pass worth beans but he's still an excellent player.

mavfan2390
09-24-2005, 02:57 PM
hughes just might be the most overrated player in the nba.....no outside shot, and anyone get 2 steals a game if they play the passing lanes well, that being said, Lebron is going to have a monster season, but this time he has a bench, and some outside shooting to help him, i still dont think they have a chance is the east, lebron is michael without a pippen or a zen master

alby
09-24-2005, 03:03 PM
Lebron James is definitely not Michael Jordan.
Totally different players.

Larry Hughes:
22 points
6.3 rebounds
4.7 assists
2.9 steals

How is he overrated?

Thespiralgoeson
09-24-2005, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by: alby
Lebron James is definitely not Michael Jordan.
Totally different players.

Larry Hughes:
22 points
6.3 rebounds
4.7 assists
2.9 steals

How is he overrated?

Not to mention all-defensive first team... The Cavs will most definitely make the playoffs, but they have no chance of making it past the second round.

All this aside, am I the only one here who gets a little nausiated when people refer to LeBron as "King" James? The kid's put up amazing numbers, yeah, but until he he's been MVP 5 times, and has 6 championships, I refuse to call him, or anyone else for that matter "King."

alby
09-24-2005, 07:04 PM
He's the king in my book =)

jayC
09-24-2005, 07:07 PM
27 points 7 rebounds 7 assists all before he is 21. The fact that he is already a top 15 player speaks volumes about him. They are the best of the second tier in the East. Can Hughes string back to back good seasons in a row.

alby
09-24-2005, 07:10 PM
King James

@ 18-19 years old
20.9 points
5.5 rebounds
5.9 assists
1.65 steals

@ 19-20 years old
27.2 points
7.4 rebounds
7.2 assists
2.21 steals

If that doesn't blow you away...

Thespiralgoeson
09-24-2005, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by: alby
King James

@ 18-19 years old
20.9 points
5.5 rebounds
5.9 assists
1.65 steals

@ 19-20 years old
27.2 points
7.4 rebounds
7.2 assists
2.21 steals

If that doesn't blow you away...

It sure as hell does blow me away.... But... until he's been MVP 5 times and has 6 championship rings, I refuse to call him "King."

alby
09-24-2005, 07:45 PM
i love how MJ set such a high standard =]

with your logic, there may never be another "king" then =[

like would 3 MVPs and 3 rings be good enough?

Thespiralgoeson
09-24-2005, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by: alby
i love how MJ set such a high standard =]

with your logic, there may never be another "king" then =[

like would 3 MVPs and 3 rings be good enough?

No it wouldn't. LeBron is a truly amazing player who's not only lived up to his hype but has actually surpassed it. However, as you said, MJ set the standard. Until LeBron accomplishes more in his NBA career than Jordan did, I refuse to call him "king." And yes, you are absolutely correct when you suggest that there may be another "King."

alby
09-25-2005, 01:05 AM
I doubt anyone will ever accomplish what MJ did individually because of how much the "NBA is a business" these days...

chumdawg
09-25-2005, 01:25 AM
Said it before, say it again: when it's said and done, LBJ will go down as the best to EVER play the game.

Debatable, of course. As these things always are.

alby
09-25-2005, 01:33 AM
He definitely has the potential.

But the question here is, will he be considered the best EVER even if he doesn't win 6 rings and 5 MVPs?

Thespiralgoeson
09-25-2005, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by: ChumdawgSaid it before, say it again: when it's said and done, LBJ will go down as the best to EVER play the game.

Debatable, of course. As these things always are.



It's certainly possible, but it ain't exactly set in stone either. He's certainly got all the makings, but could be one of those players that always puts up amazing numbers but never wins it all. Or maybe the LeBron James we're seeing now may be the LeBron James we'll be seeing for his whole career. There are players who peak early in their careers and don't simply keep getting better as their expected too. I don't think he'll be one of these either, but it's possible.


Originally posted by: alby
He definitely has the potential.

But the question here is, will he be considered the best EVER even if he doesn't win 6 rings and 5 MVPs?

Only time will tell. Of course it's not just about the number of MVP's and rings, because if it were, Bill Russell, not MJ, would be considered the greatest ever. But I wonder if by the end of his career, we'll be able to look back and say "LeBron James was better than Michael Jordan ever was." When MJ was in his prime, he was the best basketball player in the world, period. If you thought otherwise, you were wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Not only was MJ the best, but nobody came even remotely close. Early in his career, there was still Larry and Magic... But in the 90's, who was the second-best player in the NBA? Malone? Barkley? Olajuwan? Shaq? They were all great players, but none of them compared to Jordan. LeBron sure as hell isn't anywhere near that level yet. Until LeBron is undesputedly, undeniably THE BEST player in the NBA, I have a big problem with calling him "King." You could certainly argue that LeBron is the best, but you could also make strong cases for Kobe, Duncan, KG etc...

Right now he's just a huge talent. Right now, if I were to compare LeBron to Kobe on the issue of who's the best player in the NBA, Kobe would win by a mile IMO. Yeah, I know, he had Shaq. But still, he's got three championship rings. Duncan's got three rings and has been MVP twice, KG's been MVP, AI's been MVP, Dirk is gonna be MVP next year i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif... LeBron right now is about on the same level as T-Mac IMO. I'm not saying Lebron won't surpass everyone else, I'm just saying he hasn't done it yet. So, until then, maybe I'll just call him "Prince James."

AxdemxO
09-26-2005, 12:19 AM
I dont like LeBron James and i dont think he will ever win anything with the Cavs. To me he is good but for some reason i see him like a Karl Malone or Payton. Great players who didnt couldnt win the big one. Karl really messed up his career whn he went to the Lakers and Payton has played for like 3 or 4 teams in like the last 3 years. I think the cavs will make the playoffs but will lose in the 1st round. Just to add that Miami is not gonna achieve anythin this season because like Dallas 2 years ago they got 2 much talent and Shaq is done.

alby
09-26-2005, 12:26 AM
Lebron hasn't even had the chance to "win the big one," he is 21 years old and he already a top 10, and arguably a top 5 player in the NBA.

Thespiralgoeson
09-26-2005, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by: AxdemxO To me he is good but for some reason i see him like a Karl Malone or Payton. Great players who didnt couldnt win the big one.

The only reason Karl Malone "couldn't win the big one" is because his era was dominated by the Bulls, whom in my humble opinion, were greatest team in the history of professional sports. If Jordan hadn't left, I firmly believe that the Bulls would've won 8 championships, and that Hakeem Olajuwan would be on that list of "great players who didnt couldn't win the big one"


Karl really messed up his career whn he went to the Lakers and Payton has played for like 3 or 4 teams in like the last 3 years. I think the cavs will make the playoffs but will lose in the 1st round. Just to add that Miami is not gonna achieve anythin this season because like Dallas 2 years ago they got 2 much talent and Shaq is done.

Please explain to me how exact Karl "messed up his career when he went to the Lakers" The dude was 40 years old, and he got the opportunity to play for a team that had won 3 championships in the previous 4 years... What was he supposed to do? Stay with Utah? As for Payton, maybe the reason he's played for so many teams in the past 3 years is because he's old?

As for Miami, the 04 Mavs analogy has been used over and over again, and it just doesn't work. The 04 Mavs jdidn't just have too much talent. They had too much talent at one position, and absolutely zero talent at the another. The 04 Mavs had THREE all-star calibur players at power forward, none of whom could play defense. And at center, the only guy we could throw out there who actually played that position was Bradley. We had Danny f*cking Fortson as our starting center, and then we started Dirk at 5, followed by (cringe) Scott Williams and Mamadou N'diaye. Remember who we ended up playing at 5 to close out the season? Antoine Walker. Chemistry was a problem with that team for sure. But believe me, that team had A LOT more problems than just chemistry.

Miami is has enough talent at every position, but not too much at any of them. And you say "Shaq is done." If by "done" you mean that he doesn't completely destroy everything in his path, and put up 29 and 13, like he used to, or that he'll miss a significant number of games due to nagging injuries you're right. However, Shaq being "done" is still 20 and 10; better than any center in the NBA. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Miami's gonna get past Indiana or Detroit either. But, I think the reason for that will be defense, not chemistry.

DevinHarriswillstart
09-26-2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
I definitely think playing along side LeBron will help Hughes' career. He's never been able to pass worth beans but he's still an excellent player.

Hughes doesn't know how to pass? 4.7 assists a game seems like a pretty decent passer to me

EricaLubarsky
09-26-2005, 11:47 AM
Watching Hughes in both Golden State and in Washington, it is clear to me that he cannot see the floor at all. Actually Golden State wanted him but just couldnt afford to have him playing along side another non-passer.

I'm trying to lookup the song that people were singing about him a while back...

Anyway he's a hell of a competitor, and he'll help a team win as long as he isnt counted on to distribute the ball.

alby
09-26-2005, 12:57 PM
I think ball distribution will and always fall on the shoulders of King James =]

Thespiralgoeson
09-26-2005, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by: alby
I think ball distribution will and always fall on the shoulders of King James =]

I wouldn't want that if I were a Cavs' fan. LeBron is an incredible playmaker, however being the primary distributor all the time is a very heavy burden to carry, and could keep him from scoring as much as he could. We saw this happen to T-Mac in the playoffs. T-Mac is of course the Rockets' best distributor, but it's hard to take over a game offensively and put your own points on the board when you've got to be solely responsible for everyone else's points as well.

It's funny, I keep hearing all the MJ, Magic, and Oscar Robertson comparisons, but you know who LeBron reminds me the most of? Larry Bird. LeBron of course is much much much more athletic, and is more of a slasher whereas Bird was more of a shooter. But they're both about the same size, play the same position, can score from anywhere, and are phenominal passer/playmakers. The reason I mention this is because Larry really was the Celt's best distributor, and probably could've played point for them. However, having a solid point in DJ allowed Bird to do his thing.

alby
09-26-2005, 11:40 PM
Lebron can still distribute the ball and shoot it 30 times. He is Lebron James.

sike
09-26-2005, 11:42 PM
the kid has nothing to apologize for that's for sure.....

alby
09-26-2005, 11:47 PM
maybe I was wrong about Dirk's window closing because his prime is going to last just a few more years..
maybe I should have said because Lebron King James will be dominating the league in a few more years i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif

Five-ofan
09-27-2005, 12:37 AM
The Bulls wouldnt have won 8 straight. Just wouldnt have happened. The early 90s cowboys IMO were a better team if your gonna include all team sports. That team had so many people who went on to start for other teams on the bench. I know its a conspiracy theory but its one that probably has some truth in it. If Jordan hadnt left he could have been involved in a rose like gambling debacle. He just left to let things cool down. Dont really buy it fully but honestly it is definitely a plausible theory considering how much Jordan gambled and that he likely did bet on NBA games. James will never be the unquestioned greatest player ever because even Jordan isnt the unquestioned greatest ever. There are alot of people who have Wilt or Oscar ahead of Jordan. I dont simply because I didnt really watch either wilt or oscar play. Just saying that it will never be unquestioned.

Thespiralgoeson
09-27-2005, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by: Five-ofan
The Bulls wouldnt have won 8 straight. Just wouldnt have happened.

Why the hell not? Jordan and Pippen were still at the top of their games. Who would've beaten them? Hakeem's Rockets? Ewing's Knicks? Shaq's Magic? No flippin way.


The early 90s cowboys IMO were a better team if your gonna include all team sports. That team had so many people who went on to start for other teams on the bench.

Cowboys: three championships. Bulls: Six championships.


I know its a conspiracy theory but its one that probably has some truth in it. If Jordan hadnt left he could have been involved in a rose like gambling debacle. He just left to let things cool down. Dont really buy it fully but honestly it is definitely a plausible theory considering how much Jordan gambled and that he likely did bet on NBA games.

??? What? If that's all you have to support your theory that the bulls winning 8 "just wouldn't have happened" then that barely even qualifies as mere hearsay and you damn sure don't have me convinced.


James will never be the unquestioned greatest player ever because even Jordan isnt the unquestioned greatest ever. There are alot of people who have Wilt or Oscar ahead of Jordan. I dont simply because I didnt really watch either wilt or oscar play. Just saying that it will never be unquestioned.

Which is why I refuse to call him "King."

Five-ofan
09-27-2005, 01:22 AM
Ok if were gonna go championships then the russel celtics 11 titles. Is it possible they woulda won the other 2? Yeah I will never say that Jordan in his prime couldnt do something. I just dont feel that they would have. The Cowboys coulda won more but they lost alot of people do to the salary cap. If they had stayed together the woulda won more.

Thespiralgoeson
09-27-2005, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by: Five-ofan
The Cowboys coulda won more but they lost alot of people do to the salary cap. If they had stayed together the woulda won more.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda... but they didn't.

Five-ofan
09-27-2005, 02:52 AM
applies exactly the same way to your Jordan Bulls statement

Thespiralgoeson
09-27-2005, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by: Five-ofan
applies exactly the same way to your Jordan Bulls statement

Fair enough, but it's irrelavent. The Bulls DID win 6 championships.

Five-ofan
09-27-2005, 04:14 PM
And if were gonna go by who won the most championships in one run then its the Celtics because they DID win 11 titles.