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View Full Version : Bradley the $118 Million Man


djb
03-25-2001, 10:40 PM
DallasBasketball.com (http://www.dallasbasketball.com) has an interesting article on Bradley's possible max contract come this offseason. That's right, everyone's favorite shotblocker might be re-signing for a paltry $118.736 million! I'm sure most of you guys will have something to say about this i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

dallmav
03-25-2001, 10:43 PM
I dont think that he is worth the max. I would like to keep him a maverick, but hes not worth 118 million dollars

LonestarROB
03-25-2001, 11:20 PM
You don't THINK he's worth the max i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif . He's no where near worth the max. I think it's a big mistake if Cuban give's him that much. Backup players don't deserve that kinda money.

Jordan23TX
03-25-2001, 11:38 PM
~~~Whew~~~~ If he gets that type of money then I dont think I could support the Mavericks. I would be a fan from a distance...But Bradley getting this type of money reeks of whats wrong with the CBA. If he gets the Max for the 3 years @ 39 Million then I can accept that. Thats alot of money for a situational player. Also notice in the article he left the door open....So if he needs a sign & trade to get Maximum Money then Im sure we can oblige him.....Maybe try to get Ratliff or anyone else....who can line-up every nite at Center instead of situational...

Ive made it clear I want to stay, but at the same time Im keeping all options open, Bradley says, for the first time leaving open the door for soliciting bids and thus possibly forcing Cuban to have to max him out in order to keep him. Im going to sit down with my wife, examine the possibilities, then sit down with Mark and see what we can get done.
Beyond that, people are going to think what they want. I have neighbors and friends who are doctors or lawyers or teachers. They work hard every day to make a living that isnt a fraction if what we make. Im aware of that. Im appreciative of it. So if somebody wants to boo, I dont care.
Good thing. Because if Bradley hits the jackpot -- $12 million for a year, or $39 for three, or $119 for seven -- you will boo. Wont you?

scooterj5
03-26-2001, 01:35 AM
It's Cuban's money, not yours.

Owners never win- they are either criticised for being too cheap or for spending too much.

FineCubanCigar
03-26-2001, 03:23 AM
tru dat, but what if we ever wanted to move the guy? its like a Juwan situation except the Wiz. had even more of a reason to expect big things out of Howard than ... plz Shawn Bradley. His contract should be insintive laden, but that prob. won't hapen caus Utah would sign him, and you can bet it wouldn't be for the max. even if league rules stipulated they could give it to him.

madape
03-26-2001, 07:30 AM
Signing Bradley to the Max means that if we do move him (which we won't), we'd be able to take on the same amount of salary in the trade. Meaning that even though we are over the cap, it would be possible to get a big-name maxed out player like Webber or Duncan in here. The DallasBasketball article is very interesting. There really is no argument against it other than "he doesn't deserve that kind of money". But its not your money, and the money can't be spent anywhere else, so who cares?

TheKid
03-26-2001, 08:54 AM
Look I've heard all types of reasons why we should keep Bradley, but if we can only keep him at $118 Million that's NO REASON!!!!! He's not worth that much, it's that simple. There are only TWO players on this team right now if it called for it to resign them for that much. That would be Fin and Dirk everyone else, not even close!!!!

big_pth
03-26-2001, 08:55 AM
True, but look how long it took the Bullets to move Howard? I would just see if I could get away with paying the dude less...He's a good player, but he will never be great, and the porblem with sports today is that we pay good players too much, so that the great players have to make that much more...damn vicious circle!

The Crippler
03-26-2001, 09:08 AM
This would absolutly disgust me if they give him the max. He doesn't care enough about basketball to deserve that kind of money.

Mavinator
03-26-2001, 12:08 PM
Come on now. Why would you NOT give him the max? If Bradley's signed for the max, that gives the Mavericks more flexibility in sign and trades, plus it sends a message to all the free agents out there: Come play for Dallas, and we'll give you a whole hell of a lot of money to play as well as you can. We're already way over the cap, and Finley is far from an egotistical player... there's absolutely no downside to giving Bradley the max, but quite a few benefits.

Mavs#1Fan
03-26-2001, 01:06 PM
A part-time player (24 minutes a game) does not deserve that kind of money. It will eventually become a source of friction in the locker room and will destroy the Mavs chemistry.

If the Mavs ever have to rebuild (say either Finley or Dirk have a career ending injury), they will be hamstrung by the Bradley contract much the way the Grizzlies are getting killed by the Big COuntry deal.

Pay what the market rate for a player of Bradley's talents (6 to 8 million a year) for 3 to 5 years and then evaluate him. If evilmav is right and Bradley becomes a force, then the Mavs should give him the max. Don't pay for potential, pay for results.

LAM0015
03-26-2001, 01:19 PM
cuban is a smart man..i can't believe that he would be stupid enough to even consider maxing out bradley considering bradley would probably stay here and play with the mavs for slightly less than other places around the NBA

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 02:06 PM
If Cuban and Nelson do give Bradley the maximum extension, I would have faith that they knew what they are doing... Personally, I would sign him for about eight million a year for seven years, but then again I am not an NBA general manager... Rewarding Bradley is going to make us look even better as a possible location for other players in the league though...

TheKid
03-26-2001, 02:14 PM
Bradley is worth NO MORE than 5 million a year!!! One penny more and the Mavericks are dumb. Juwan Howard should be an example that you don't go giving people boat loads of money after ONE great year. Juwan is good, but he's not worth the money he's getting. The last thing I want to see is for the Mavericks getting stuck with paying Bradley all this money and him not performing. Really think about what he's done for the team this year, everyone will say it's great because he still has the contract he signed when he got drafted. Something like 7 years $44 million. NOW, take what he's done this year and let's boost that up to $118 million. I GUARANTEE you won't think what he's done this year is so great when you take into account that he's making that type of money. Now look a little bit further into the future, let's say that contract hinders the Mavs from acquiring some other type of free agent like a Duncan or someone of that caliber because NO ONE is going to pay Bradley that money???? There are only two owners in the entire league who has shown they'll pay the money and that's Cuban and the guy from Portland. Other than that, there are no others and we WILL BE STUCK with a hefty salary for many years for a guy who plays 24 minutes, and at best will get abount 10 rebounds a game, 3 blocks and if we're lucky 10 points. I'm sorry that's not worth that type of money.

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 02:34 PM
If Bradley tested the open market, the DMN and the Star Telegram have both reported that he would command between 6-8 million depending on Summer negotiations...

djb
03-26-2001, 02:36 PM
What I don't understand is why anyone would even consider locking him up for seven years? He's already stated before that he wouldn't mind hanging 'em up soon and just spending time with his family. A 3-5 year deal would be more realistic imo.

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 02:43 PM
With most players I would agree with you there, except that the inflation of NBA salaries could make that an expensive proposition if we did resign him after 3-5 years... I read something on RealGM once illustrating why signing two short term contracts ended costing quite a bit more (depending on how long the player had been in the league)than signing one long term extension. Bradley is also still young enough to have his best years ahead of him, and I think he will probably play longer than the seven years we would sign him for. With the way Bradley plays, and his history of not getting injured, I think it is a good gamble signing him for the long term...

Jordan23TX
03-26-2001, 02:45 PM
Im going to sound like a broken record but 12 Million for a "situational player" isnt good business. He doesnt have favorable match-ups against SHAQ,DROB,SABONIS, or Divac......He's too light for Big Guys like SHAQ....& too slow against Robinson or Divac. I mean he does great against the Wiz,Nets,Grizzlies.....But I argue that we should be able to beat these teams without Bradley. His best game this season was against the HEAT....I cant remember the exact line But I think he had like 9 blocks 15 Rebs etc....But that was mostly against a undersized Brian Grant & Anthony Mason...... Im not bashing him but he's just a average center.....who against the teams that stand in front of us winning a title he isnt going to make much of a difference. I agree with Evil that a long term deal at less dollars makes sense ...or a Max salary @ something like 3 years is even better....at Max Salary @ 3 years is 39 Million...

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 02:50 PM
I still bet Cuban's assertions that Bradley will get the max are aimed at further impressing potential free agents out there... Anything that makes us look loyal and rewarding of our players makes us that much more attractive to other players in the league (look at what the Jerry's dismal rep did to the Bulls for the converse effect)... I bet we sign him for 8 or 9 million for seven years. If Bradley doesn't get injured during that contract, it will be well worth it for us...

TheKid
03-26-2001, 02:53 PM
Well I wouldn't lock him up for seven more years anyway regardless of what he said he wants to do. I'm not saying he couldn't get 6-8 million, I'm saying I don't know WHY anyone wants to pay him that much.

I'm sorry I just can't see doing it with him. Just because he's expressed his interest in hanging it up soon, I wouldn't go longer than a three year deal with him.

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 02:57 PM
You are talking about the future all-time shotblocking leader in NBA history there... Just imagine the excitement in seven or eight years as Bradley gets closer and closer to surpassing Jabbars' elusive mark... It would be like the chase for Cal Ripkens ironman record, or Nolan Ryan pitching a perfect game...

TheKid
03-26-2001, 03:11 PM
It would be about as exciting as it was when AC won the record for consecutive games played in the NBA... NO ONE CARED!!!!

FineCubanCigar
03-26-2001, 03:15 PM
ok so we pay Bradley and "look good for other players" ... well i hope we have an influx of talent we can spare cause at this rate everyone on the mavs is gonna be overpayed to the point no one is going to be tradeable ... if Shawn gets the max, Buckner should as well don't ya think, and if Buckner does Booth will ... you see what im getting at, plus we still need a banger, and another gaurd, and one of those need to be a star to make this team legit contenders. We have a 4.5 mill. exception and no draft pick, and Shawn will likely be untradeable if we do strike a deal for a star type player which we all pretty much agree we need. . . at least one more star.

big_pth
03-26-2001, 03:19 PM
Damn the sport economics that make this conversation work! And damn that cycle!

djb
03-26-2001, 03:20 PM
Eisley's contract should be enough proof to prospective free agents that Cuban will gladly overpay and take care of them.

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 03:23 PM
The funny thing about the sports economics in the NBA, is that we have the most equitable system in pro-sports... Just imagine what Bradley could command if we had a capless system like MLB... I could just see the bidding war for the best running 7-6 player in the history of the game escallating into untold reaches...

TheKid
03-26-2001, 03:27 PM
Do you really think Eisley was over payed coming in though??? I mean he played well in Utah coming off the bench. Personally I think he's the reason for Nash's great improvement this year. I think Nash new he had to perform this year because Eisley would have his spot.

Also that's the fear of paying players on what you THINK they're going to do in the future. Cuban saw what Eisley did as a back up not so much from a "statistical" standpoint, but how he played in the big games for Utah as a reserve. I know he thought if he got Eisley more minutes he would be great. Well we're soon finding out Eisley is as good as he's ever going to be. However I didn't think INITIALLY Cuban overpayed for him. He actually could have gotten that money from two other teams. I can't remember the two but two other teams were willing to pay him also.

djb
03-26-2001, 03:37 PM
Yes Eisley was GROSSLY overpaid, but hey, it's not my money i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

2000-01 $4,250,000
2001-02 $4,781,250
2002-03 $5,312,500
2003-04 $5,843,750
2004-05 $6,375,000
2005-06 $6,906,250
2006-07 $7,437,500 (team option)

madape
03-26-2001, 03:46 PM
Eisley was willing and prepared to sign here for the Mavs excpetion. Instead, Cuban negotiated a crazy four team swap that allowed us to sign him to a long term deal. No reason to other than to pay him more money.

With Bradley, its the same deal. Please tell me.. why does everyone care how much he makes? Its not your money, everyone is sports is overpaid. And it does not make the Mavs less capable of signing a free agent. We are over the cap. Instead, it makes us more capable of doing a sign and trade. Think about it, if we were to trade for Webber, who would you trade? More importantly, it sends a message to everyone that Cuban reqards loyalty and takes care of his players. That 4 million dollar exception suddenly look a lot more attractive to big name free agent. Can you imagine the press coverage if the Mavs offer the Max to Bradley? It may piss off some uninformed fans, but everyone else will be talking about how you can get PAID in Dallas. This is the same reason why Trent is going to get paid here next year as well.

Evilmav2
03-26-2001, 03:51 PM
We made that crazy trade to stay in the Joe Smith race... I hope Indianapolis cuts Sundov this Summer, so we can get him back...

Jordan23TX
03-26-2001, 04:06 PM
thank goodness we didnt get Joe Smith.....I think Juwan is better. BTW, I guess we will agree to disagree BUT if Bradley is worthy of the Max then everyone on the team is....I consider him maybe the 5th best player but he will soon be the highest paid. We have a very happy locker room ..But when the Big 3 look around in the crucial moments of games vs Lakers,Kings,Blazers & Spurs and see Shawn cheering them on from the seat next to Nelson.. they are going to wonder "Why is this mofo making 12 million?" LOL ....

TheKid
03-26-2001, 04:25 PM
Jordan, that could be the most hilarious thing I've read all day. I don't care how much Bradley makes. Hey, if he can pull it off, I'm happy for him. However I think it's stupid, and you keep mentioning a possible trade with Bradley, then you're saying names like Webber and Duncan. There will never be a trade for either of those players and Bradley involved unless three or four players go with him. Remember all the players that had to be traded for that trade to down with New Jersey and even in that trade NO PLAYER was the caliber of Webber or Duncan.

Also if they paid Bradley that, then EVERYONE would be expecting to get that. Can you imagine Bradley getting paid more than Fin then when Dirk's contract came up there would be NO WAY IN THE WORLD we could resign him. We would be over the cap, but after you get to a certain point over the cap you have to pay a luxury tax and Cuban is not going to pay that luxury tax for BRADLEY!!! That would be foolish.

LAM0015
03-26-2001, 04:54 PM
cuban doesn't need to max out bradley to show that he'll pay his players...that's rediculous

Jordan23TX
03-26-2001, 05:27 PM
Naw I mentioned that Duncan will be a free agent in 2003. The same year that Juwan's contract is up. Webber doesnt really fit here now...I mean Juwan/Dirk @ PF we are just fine. Actually, with BOOTH & the Owners favorite Harvey on the team ...not to mention ZhiZhi , we can gracefully bow out of the Webber sweepstakes (not that we were ever in them).....But just in principle I have a problem with a franchise player in Michael Finley & a role player in Shawn Bradley making the same dollars (irregardless that its Cuban's money). In most aspects of life there is a pecking order.....An the tops pecks on the Mavs start at Finley & Dirk ....Shawn's down the list...Shawn Bradley will make more then Dirk even when his contract is due...which is eye opener in itself....

J

Mavinator
03-26-2001, 05:43 PM
I think we may me operating on some misconceptions here. Do you think Mark Cuban gives two sh*ts about the luxury tax? Do you think Michael Finley and Dirk Nowitzki are really going to become locker room cancers because their quiet Mormon center is making more money than them for the next couple years? I'm aware that Shawn Bradley is not worth the maximum salary. I'm not going to argue that he is. Just tell me this: What is the downside to giving Shawn Bradley the maximum salary? Because free agents will suddenly see Dallas as an even more attractive place to come play? Because We'll be way over the cap, just like we are right now, and just like we always will be while Mark Cuban's in charge? Or because you, the fan, are upset about if for no reason at all?

LAM0015
03-26-2001, 05:51 PM
because, we are not aware of any changes that could be made in the future to the salary cap. if changes are made, and with cuban maxing out everyone, there may be no flexibility at all for cuban to maneuver and make trades or sign players. think about it.. the problems that it could cause are endless. yes, maybe things would work out fine, but there's a good chance that it could cause some unforseen problems. I guess taking other things into consideration would be too logical of a thing to do.

LAM0015
03-26-2001, 05:54 PM
cuban does NOT need to max out bradley to prove to free agents that he will pay them. look at what he did with the juwan trade. he's already proved that point. there is nothing wrong with being intelligent with the deals you make...and maxing bradley out isn't intelligent. i'm sure with your deductive reasoning, you can probably figure out what the opposite of intelligent is. good luck
bye bye

TheKid
03-26-2001, 05:55 PM
I'm not upset with it, I just don't agree with it. Like I said, Shawn Bradley is a good guy, so if he can get $20 million a year from the Mavericks do it. I'm just saying as a Maverick fan that puts us in a bad situation. Even Cuban cares about that luxury tax that we have NOT had to pay as of yet. However if he resigns Finley and Bradley, we'll for sure have to pay that with Juwan, Bradley and Finley collectively being paid around $35 million next year. That would cause problems. When time came to resign Dirk, then we would be paying that luxury tax which would make EVEN CUBAN cash weary. Then you ask why as a FAN do I care, because I enjoy from time to time going to a Mavericks game. If they do this, do you know we (as the fan) would not be able to purchase a ticket ANYWHERE in the new building for less than $60 dollars. Thanks, but no thanks. So you have to ask yourself, if Bradley was the ingredient to get us a championship, go for it. However he's not that big of an impact to do that.

Let me tell you something, even Portland Trailblazers decided they were going to do it. If they don't win a championship this year, you watch and see how many of those faces will NOT be in Portland next year.

Mavinator
03-26-2001, 06:04 PM
LAM,

Yes, your pompous, back-handed insults definitely cut to the bone, but you're twisting my words. You're talking about the consequences of signing EVERYONE to the max- Bradley is not everyone. He IS a starter-quality player, and it IS an important message to send that if you play starter-quality ball in Dallas, we''ll pay well for it. Maybe YOU think the Mavericks have sent enough messages as it is (they might have!), but it's hard to say exactly how many is enough if you're not Chris Webber, or Antonio Davis, or Tim Duncan...

TheKid,

Mark Cuban is worth multiple billions of dollars. He has already stated that he has no qualms about incurring massive luxury tax penalties, and he is not going to raise ticket prices. I believe he takes pains to keep ticket prices down... Bradley making 12 million a year is less that one-third of one percent of Cuban's estate per year, and I'm sure he has money well invested too... it's hard to imagine his value going anywhere but up...

thirdbse
03-26-2001, 06:16 PM
I know first hand how it feels to be Shawn Bradley. He was born taller than most and knows how to play basketball

I was born more handsome than most and have my opinions

I just cant get anyone to pay me what i am worth

madape
03-26-2001, 06:21 PM
Kid- first off you are completely wrong about Dirk. We can sign him to the Max too, even if we are over the cap. Its called the Larry Bird rule. Second, Mark Cuban has stated several times that he doesn't give a damn about the luxury tax. That's why he is the NBA's best owner and a big reason why there will be a dynasty in Dallas soon.

Next year, we will sign Trent to a multi-year deal, freeing up use for both our mid-level and million dollar extensions. If we max out Bradley, that makes these exceptions much more valuble to a free agent. Take for instance someone like Antonio Davis, who is not a Max caliber player. He can sign the mid-level exception knowing that in a couple of years he will get maxed out by Cuban. We can use our million dollar exception in the same way on a player like Erik Strickland.

madape
03-26-2001, 06:24 PM
LAM, how does the Juwon trade convince free-agents that Cuban pays his players? He didn't offer Howard the deal, just took on the burden. Juwon would have received his money if Cuban made the trade or not. With Bradley, people will see that Cuban will pay his players the big bucks even when he doesn't have to. I think thats got to be attractive to any free agent players.

thirdbse
03-26-2001, 06:28 PM
I just think Cuban was being nice or caught in the moment when he said he wanted Strickland back.
I bet he would take back what he said earlier this year when he said Eisley was untradeable,
I watched Strickland back in the sorry days of Mavericks history and wouldnt be sorry not to see him back.
He was ok. But out with the old and in with the new.

Jordan23TX
03-26-2001, 06:43 PM
the same people onboard with Bradley getting the Max..wont be onboard when Juwan's deal is up & he's due 20-27 million per year....I will be right here to tell you that he deserves his Max too..But the great thing is there is still time in this year for Bradley to show you that he isnt worthy of Max Salary over Max years.....Btw, Antonio Davis is definetely a franchise type player....The Raptors future depends on Antonio Davis...this summer...he goes. ..Vince is surely to go..(Btw, Antonio is good as gone).....

derek harper
03-26-2001, 06:50 PM
if i was bradley i wouldt except the money.

Mavinator
03-26-2001, 06:51 PM
jordan- You're in for a shock if you think I'm ever going to give a crap what any Maverick is earning while the Great Cuban's in charge...

Jordan23TX
03-26-2001, 06:58 PM
Mavinator....I fully accept the fact that we have the greatest new owner in the NBA....But just because Cuban has the money doesnt mean he has to "show them the money." Its going to become league-wide the moniker "Easy Mark" because he pays players whether deserving or not the Max.

djb
03-26-2001, 07:01 PM
I think we should all keep in mind that the DallasBasketball article is pure speculation at this point and just one possible scenario. Whether or not Cuban intends to max out Bradley probably won't be known until this summer.

Mavinator
03-26-2001, 07:03 PM
jordan- Hahah, I would love for him to get that nickname- 'cause you know every player in the NBA would want to come here...

djb
03-26-2001, 07:07 PM
Gawd didn't Vescey coin that nickname? i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

Jordan23TX
03-26-2001, 07:13 PM
Yes Peter coined the moniker.. because of Cuban's insistance on throwing 3 million in on all trades. As you all know...Peter is a Cuban Hater & Mark has made a fool out of Vecsey on more then one occasion. Peter Vecsey is about qualified as your postal carrier. He is no NBA insider...guys dont even like him.

djb
03-26-2001, 07:16 PM
Vescey used to include an "Easy Mark Cuban" comment in almost every one of his NY Post columns, even if it had nothing to do with the Mavs. The guy's such an ass.. That's why I hope that nick never sticks.

scooterj5
03-27-2001, 05:15 AM
As a league, NBA players are not overpaid. Simply because as a whole the players earn for the teams more than they are paid.


Bradley is a good person (even tho I don't think a lot of mormonism) so I say good for him.

LAM0015
03-27-2001, 08:18 AM
madape... i will hold back on any negative comments i have personally about your knowledge out of respect for other people that post on this board.
I know he didn't offer juwan the contract that he has. Mark Cuban is the man that is paying for the final years of it though. He did decide to trade for juwan in spite of the huge contract that he had. no other owner in the NBA was willing to touch the juwan howard because of the contract that he had. Cuban was willing to dish out the money, ...that's why trading for juwan sends a message that cuban isn't afraid to spend money when he thinks it'll help the team.

and no..juwan does not deserve anywhere near the maximum salary either. end of story
thanks
bye

TheKid
03-27-2001, 08:59 AM
Every one is dead set on the fact that Cuban is going to spend all that money even on dirk. Madape, I know he CAN resign Dirk however I'm saying even as the owner do you think realistically he can justify paying Fin, Dirk, Juwan and Bradley the same amount? Cuban has shown he doesn't care about dishing out the money, NO ONE questions that (Getting fined over $300,000 says it if nothing else does)however from a basketball standpoint it makes no sense and Cuban is no idiot either. He can't justify that in his own mind. Like someone else said, that means in two years.

Also, if you really believe when that new arena is built that tickets prices won't go up, you're kidding yourself. Cuban is a great owner, but a business man first.

djb
04-05-2001, 01:34 PM
Booth will probably be at the top of Cuban and Nellie's to-do list this offseason after locking up Finley to a max deal. You guys still think Bradley will be getting $6-8mil a year?

TheKid
04-05-2001, 01:58 PM
No way, we'll see what Zhi-Zhi can do. Booth is slowly starting to play more minutes too. Regardless, they won't pay Bradley that much anymore, I'm sure of it!!!

djb
04-05-2001, 02:05 PM
But from what's been said, Zhizhi is more of a jumpshooting 3 right now (like Dirk early on). So other than Booth, Bradley's really the only other natural center on the team.

I'd also still like to get Laettner back, but re-signing Booth definitely comes first. This kid's going to be something special!

TheKid
04-05-2001, 03:38 PM
Do you really think I'm going to be something special??? i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

LonestarROB
04-05-2001, 03:40 PM
LOL i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif .

LAM0015
04-05-2001, 03:55 PM
hopefully bradley wants to play here really badly..because his paycheck is dwindling every time booth has a good outing