PDA

View Full Version : 'Genuine' Spurs welcome Finley


MavsFanFinley
10-06-2005, 12:18 AM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/images/1006spurs_finley.jpg

MySanAntonio (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA100605.1C.BKNspurs.finley.17bc0235.html)

'Genuine' Spurs welcome Finley

Web Posted: 10/06/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Johnny Ludden
Express-News Staff Writer

CHARLOTTE AMALIE, U.S. Virgin Islands Michael Finley walked onto the court Tuesday afternoon for his first Spurs practice and did a double-take.

Perched in the stands was his longtime coach with the Dallas Mavericks, Don Nelson.

"I thought he was scouting us or something," Finley said. "I guess everybody is trying to get out of Dodge now, huh?"

Unlike Nelson, Finley didn't have much choice.

The face of the Mavericks' franchise for much of the past nine seasons, he found himself out of a job in August after Dallas waived him to take advantage of the NBA's new amnesty rule. By ridding themselves of the luxury-tax penalty Finley's contract incurred, the Mavericks bid farewell to their longtime captain.

Dallas' loss became the Spurs' gain. And while acknowledging it's a little strange to be wearing something other than a blue jersey, Finley, so far, sounds happy with his new team.

"These guys are genuine guys," he said. "They've welcomed me with open arms. I'm very appreciative of this team, and that's one of the reasons I decided to come to San Antonio."

Few NBA observers thought Finley would make the five-hour drive down Interstate 35.

Phoenix offered a starting job plus the chance to play with Steve Nash, his friend and longtime teammate from Dallas. Miami, in addition to having Shaquille O'Neal, Dwyane Wade and a championship-caliber roster, could have given him a starting salary of $5million, almost twice as much as the Spurs had available.

Aware that most considered the Heat the favorite to sign Finley, Spurs officials phoned Finley's agent to make sure they were still in the running. Even after meeting with Finley at his Chicago home, coach Gregg Popovich was skeptical of the team's chances.

"I had a really good dinner afterwards then walked up and down Michigan Avenue," Popovich said. "I figured that was going to be my fun for the trip, pretty honestly.

"I just felt that he was probably going to start in the other situations, and I thought he would have personal relationships that would be tough to turn away from."

In the end, however, Finley saw other reasoning: The Spurs, who unsuccessfully courted him in the summer of 2001, had won three championships in seven years.

Having met Tim Duncan in college when both played for the junior national team, Finley had grown to admire the two-time MVP for his talent and for his selflessness. He also felt comfortable with Popovich from their time together in the 2002 World Championships.

Though the Mavericks included a contract provision that allows them to spread the remaining $51.8 million they owe Finley in payments over the next 10-plus years, money wasn't a significant factor in his decision. A percentage of the three-year, $8.4 million contract (the third season is at his option) he signed with the Spurs is subtracted from what Dallas owes him.

As for speculation he signed with Dallas' division rival to get back at his former team, Finley said he would have joined the Spurs if they were in the Eastern Conference.

"What stood out," he said, "was this team has done it before. They know what it takes. A lot of the other situations, there were a lot of unknowns.

"Here, I knew what I was getting into from a team standpoint, from a coaching standpoint."

Popovich, who told Finley he would have to accept a role off the bench and fewer minutes, was happy to land the former All-Star because he signed for "all the right reasons" not the least of which was the chance to play with Duncan.

"Timmy's proven through three championships he makes everybody better," Popovich said. "It doesn't matter where they played in college, what country they come from, how big they are, how skilled they are. He has an ability to let people get comfortable in their roles and welcome them in."

Finley also has been well received by his one-time tormentor. In a game against Dallas late in the 2003-04 season, Finley and Bruce Bowen traded a couple of well-placed forearm shoves. Finley was ejected; Bowen received a $2,000 fine.

Afterward, Finley called Bowen a coward. Nelson accused him of being dirty.

Finley said he and Bowen recently dined together. Any feud, he said, is "behind us."

"I'm a competitor, and he's a competitor," Bowen said. "But the competition is only on the court. I respect him a great deal.

"I think I would be doing a disservice to the organization if I held grudges against guys."

Finley now finds himself backing up Bowen and Manu Ginobili. Having led the NBA in minutes played in three seasons, he says his new job will be a "big adjustment." But he also thinks the Spurs will make the transition as smooth as possible.

While Finley's scoring average has dropped six consecutive seasons, he played much of last season with a right-ankle injury that required surgery in the summer. Long regarded as a better shooter than slasher, he apparently hasn't lost his stroke. Last season, he made a career-best 40.7 percent of his 3-pointers a percentage that could improve given the amount of open shots he should receive playing with Duncan.

"Without me here in San Antonio, they're still a great team," Finley said. "With me, hopefully they'll be a better team."

DevinHarriswillstart
10-06-2005, 08:26 AM
"I guess everybody is trying to get out of Dodge now, huh?"

Everybody on the downhill slump, yeah.

Big Boy Laroux
10-06-2005, 06:29 PM
let it go fin, let it go...

MavsFanFinley
10-06-2005, 09:01 PM
You could say the same thing for Stack but, well, that's different it seems.

MavsFanFinley
10-06-2005, 09:17 PM
Spurs intensify workouts on Day 2
Training camp gets tougher as players fight for roster spots

By PATRICK JOY
Thursday, October 6th 2005

ST. THOMAS - They may be teammates, but there was no lack of intrasquad intensity on the court Wednesday as the San Antonio Spurs training camp moved into its second day.

Hitting the gym at 10 a.m. and again at 6 p.m., the Spurs worked through grueling drills - working half- and full-court five-on-five sets with various points awarded for baskets, defensive stops, rebounds and free throws.

The drills were full speed and players didn't hold back - doing their best to show coach Gregg Popovich that their offseason work had paid off.

"We're having fun, but we're competing," said guard Nick Van Exel, a high-profile recent acquisition for the Spurs. "One of the differences I've noticed at this camp is that it's running a lot smoother" than other camps, Van Exel said. "We're having fun, but we're giving Pop something to look at, too."

Van Exel said his transition into the Spurs system is going well, partially because he had to study the team so much when playing with the Lakers, Blazers and Mavericks in recent years.

"Having played them so many times it's pretty easy," he said.

Van Exel said he was excited to have Michael Finley in camp. The duo played together in Dallas several years ago and have been heralded additions to the Spurs.

"I'm very happy for the fact that we've got a chance to play here," he said. "This is really a great opportunity for both of us to do something we've never done before."

Undoubtedly, Van Exel and Finley add depth to an already deep team. A Van Exel, Finley, Brent Barry, Robert Horry and Rasho Nesterovic combo all coming off the bench would be as strong as some teams' starting five.

Coach Popovich said he never thought he would land Finley.

"I thought I was wasting my time," he said. "After talking with him in Chicago I had a nice dinner, walked up and down Michigan Avenue and thought that would be my highlight," he said.

From medicine balls to balancing acts on inflated discs, Finley and the rest of the Spurs worked for more than two hours Wednesday night, moving quickly into defensive rotation and post drills and even into set-play sequences.

"You get right into it here," said Van Exel. "It's simple."

Van Exel credited the smoothness of the first two days of camp to the presence of so many veterans.

"We're doing a good job of communicating," he said. "For the guys that get it, they get it, and for the guys that don't, everyone's helping them along," he said.

Practice continues today, and the players are getting ready for an intra-squad scrimmage at 8 p.m. Friday. They'll take Saturday off and then hit the court for one final practice Sunday before returning to San Antonio.

jayC
10-06-2005, 10:22 PM
The thing is good for Finley and the Spurs. The mavericks were the worst run professional sports team in the 90's and sported the worst record. They never once got the number one overall pick. San Antonio can thank Robinson for going down. Finley will try to ride the coattails of Duncan, Ginobli and Horry. Good for him, but it is time to move on. Finley is a bargain for 2.5 million, but not for 19 million. Oh and he had 15.7 ppg in 37.8 minutes a game. Stack had 15 points in 31 minutes a game.

Dirkenstien
10-06-2005, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
"I guess everybody is trying to get out of Dodge now, huh?"

Everybody on the downhill slump, yeah.

No boundaries can withhold the sempiternal intensity of this rivalry.

And oh how much sweeter victory shall sound when the weight of that giant thunders into the ground.

alby
10-07-2005, 12:59 AM
Undoubtedly, Van Exel and Finley add depth to an already deep team. A Van Exel, Finley, Brent Barry, Robert Horry and Rasho Nesterovic combo all coming off the bench would be as strong as some teams' starting five.

in what league is this??

chumdawg
10-07-2005, 01:30 AM
When the cutting of Fin became a topic of discussion, the Mavs had their say. Donnie took to the airwaves, in just about every significant media outlet. Oh, he was nice about it. We heard that Mike brought "a special package," and all that bullshit. But the implication was clear, to all except the most mentally challenged.

Of course, Cuban chimed in too, with the "woe is me" act that has grown tired in these parts over the past two offseasons, as we have seen two multiple-time All-Stars leave here for greener pastures. Very subtle attempts were made to demean #4. Suggestions that he put his own selfish interests above the interests of the team.

To which, #4 responded by pointing out that he did in fact start on a team that won 58 games--a number that I have heard bandied about--truly--ad nauseum on these boards. But even so, that 58-win team decided they would gain by jettisoning their dead weight, the guy who was--as Jerry Stackhouse so belligerently points out--the only guy who was worried about that sort of thing. (The starting or the 58 wins is left to your own estimation.)

In the face of such a none-too-subtle PR attack against him, is it any wonder that the ol' #4 strikes back with all the pride that we so loved about him when he wore the uniform with our name on it?

Mike struck back gently, but oh, so effectively. As befits a player and person of his caliber.

And when it comes to it, what IS Don Nelson doing in these camps anyway?

alby
10-07-2005, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by: chumdawg And when it comes to it, what IS Don Nelson doing in these camps anyway?

checking out how a championship camp runs..

Drbio
10-07-2005, 08:30 AM
Good post chummy.

dirt_dobber
10-07-2005, 11:55 AM
greatness Alby

I don't know what to think of Nellie's tour, except that it bugs me!

.

FilthyFinMavs
10-07-2005, 02:35 PM
Great article MFF.


Great post Chum.

chumdawg
10-07-2005, 03:30 PM
Nellie's seen a few championship camps of his own. Five, is it?

alby
10-07-2005, 03:42 PM
checking out how a championship camp runs..

edit://

checking out how to run a championship camp..

Dirkenstien
10-07-2005, 04:53 PM
Very subtle attempts were made to demean #4. Suggestions that he put his own selfish interests above the interests of the team.

These "suggestions" may have indeed been true and because we have no feasible way to determine this it would be just as big, if not a bigger mistake to assume that the purpose of these statements were to serve as demeaning shots to #4's back.

chumdawg
10-07-2005, 05:02 PM
Okay, I guess. Maybe we just can't know what the intent was. How's this, then. #4 was subtly demeaned.

Better?

Dirkenstien
10-26-2005, 11:51 AM
http://espn.go.com/media/nba/2005/1024/photo/sas_g_finley_395.jpg

Finley's previous contract with the Mavs: $100-plus million
Amount the Mavs saved on letting Finley go: $51 million

What some aging players are willing to do for a chance at an easy ring: Priceless

madape
10-26-2005, 04:46 PM
Money Mark Cuban saved by dumping Nash: $66 million
Money Mark Cuban saved by dumping Finley: $51 million

Watching both whip Cuban's ass in the playoffs.... priceless

MavsFanFinley
10-26-2005, 05:30 PM
It must pain some to know that Finley is fitting in with SA's system. Not only Finley, but NVE as well. Sure, some things need to be worked out but it's not going to take them the whole season like it did with Brent Barry.

I'm trying to remember the last time Finley had the same amount of ft attempts as he did 3pters. It's nice to see Pop isn't planting Finley in the corners to rot.

Thespiralgoeson
10-26-2005, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by: madape
Money Mark Cuban saved by dumping Nash: $66 million
Money Mark Cuban saved by dumping Finley: $51 million

Watching both whip Cuban's ass in the playoffs.... priceless

Ape, if that's the way you really feel, why do you still consider yourself a Mavs fan... or do you at all? Really, I want to know. Because from everything I've ever read from you, it sounds like you're not a Mavs fan at all anymore; you're a 2003 Mavs fan. That team is dead, and you've been angry about it ever since. I've never read anything from you suggesting that you actually want the Mavericks to win... All I've read from you is how Erick Dampier is sub-human, and that you take pleasure in seeing this team lose to the respective team of its former players.

Bayliss
10-26-2005, 07:03 PM
No, Madape is a Shawn Bradley fan. And when Shawn became useless" so did his desire to see the team succeed.

(Btw, good luck to Fin. But I find it dfuuny that the same man who is "happy" about coming off of the bench now is the same one that played on a badly sprained ankle to keep his starting spot then.)

mavs413
10-26-2005, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by: Bayliss
No, Madape is a Shawn Bradley fan. And when Shawn became useless" so did his desire to see the team succeed.

(Btw, good luck to Fin. But I find it dfuuny that the same man who is "happy" about coming off of the bench now is the same one that played on a badly sprained ankle to keep his starting spot then.)

Finley played on a bad ankle because Daniels and Stackhouse also had injury problems and Finley thought that it was best for the team that he played even if he wasnt at full strength (he was the only SG left). It was an injury that required surgery and by the time Stack and Quis were both healthy, it was too late into the season to have that surgery because he would have missed the rest of the year and the playoffs.

Bayliss
10-26-2005, 07:36 PM
I wonder if he ever thought him driving to the basket was "best for the team." I wonder if he ever thought rebounding was "best for the team." I wonder if he ever thought working on his game in the offseason and not golfing was "best for the team."

Of course, it won't matter in SA because Finley will be reduced to Dell Curry. He'll come off the bench to come off of screens and hit the open jumper. He'll be asked to hit the 3 when Duncan gets doubled.

MavsFanFinley
10-26-2005, 10:20 PM
It's rather obvious that no one here (or just a few) has watched Finley with his new team yet. He's not just settling for 3's or jump shots. He's getting to the basket and has as many ft attempts (only 1 is a technical) as he does 3 pointers. Pop has him moving around instead of just sitting in the corners to gather dust.

Only Mav fans seem to think Finley is nothing more than a 3pt shooter in SA.

Bayliss
10-26-2005, 10:26 PM
It's rather obvious that no one here (or just a few) has watched Finley with his new team yet. He's not just settling for 3's or jump shots. He's getting to the basket and has as many ft attempts (only 1 is a technical) as he does 3 pointers. Pop has him moving around instead of just sitting in the corners to gather dust.

Only Mav fans seem to think Finley is nothing more than a 3pt shooter in SA.

Dell Curry was an excellent shooter off of screens too.

Dirkenstien
10-27-2005, 12:15 AM
He's not just settling for 3's or jump shots.


It's nice to see Pop isn't planting Finley in the corners to rot.

Can you blame him or Pop?

Considering Finley is shooting an awful 15% (2-13) from beyond the arc, it's not difficult to understand why.

Also, Finley is averaging 21 minutes a game over eight games and has only taken 13 free throw attempts. In 164 minutes of play, going to the line just 6 times isn't that impressive.

That calculates out to 1.6 free throw shots per 21 minutes.

Pop sure has him moving around.
I guess?

chumdawg
10-27-2005, 12:56 AM
This board has been overrun with sucking-of-Dirk's-knob-ness. Longtime Mavs fans don't have a place here anymore. If there is any small piece of the franchise that you feel for in the smallest way more than you do the German, you are sacrilige here. If you have feelings for Fin, who paved the way for Nash and Dirk, or Nash, who nursed Dirk from the bottle until he could feed on his own, you are infidel.

Screw it. At least two-thirds, and more like three-fourths, of the Mavericks that I loved are now in remote outposts. I don't give two shits about Dirk's fans.

Thespiralgoeson
10-27-2005, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by: chumdawg
This board has been overrun with sucking-of-Dirk's-knob-ness. Longtime Mavs fans don't have a place here anymore. If there is any small piece of the franchise that you feel for in the smallest way more than you do the German, you are sacrilige here. If you have feelings for Fin, who paved the way for Nash and Dirk, or Nash, who nursed Dirk from the bottle until he could feed on his own, you are infidel.

Screw it. At least two-thirds, and more like three-fourths, of the Mavericks that I loved are now in remote outposts. I don't give two shits about Dirk's fans.

Chum, nobody here even mentioned Dirk. I love the MAVERICKS, not just Dirk. Jason Terry, Josh Howard, Keith Van Horn, Jerry Stackhouse, and yes even Erick Dampier... They're all part of the team that I love. Actually Chum, nobody even mentioned Dirk. I'm not a Dirk fan, I'm a Maverick fan.

You say "longtime Mavs fans" but what does that mean really? Nobody here is being maligned for loving Fin, Nash and the rest. What does piss me off though, is when people like Madape talk about how they want the Mavericks to lose to the respective teams of former Mavs. People who are bitter about the fact that the players they liked are gone, and no longer root for the Mavs... those are not "longtime Mavs fans"... those are former Mavs fans... I think the moment you actually take pleasure in seeing the Mavericks lose is the moment you stop being a Mavs fan. Madape... he's a 2003 Mavs fan.

Chum, I want the Mavericks to win. I want Dirk Nowiztki, Jason Terry, Josh Howard, Erick Dampier, Doug Christie, and everyone else on this team to win. I don't give two shits about Nash's fans, or Finley's fans. I don't give two shits about 2003 Mavs fans.

MavsFanFinley
10-27-2005, 01:21 AM
Have either (Bayliss, Dirkenstein) of you watched any of the Spurs games?

Bayliss
10-27-2005, 06:47 AM
So what is Finley doing different than Dell Curry did in Charlotte?

madape
10-27-2005, 07:55 AM
I love the Mavs and want them to succeed. But when shithead idiots like Cuban decide to blow up a championship contending team, and then lie to me about the reason why, I'm going to call them out. Yes I'm a Bradley fan, but I'm also a Nash fan... and a Finley fan... and a Nick Van Exel fan...

The current administration treated all those players like dirt. I'll be pulling for Nash and Finley to win a championship because they deserve it. Cuban doesn't deserve shit... except maybe a good embarassing ass kicking, which is what he'll get. I'll be back on the bandwagon when the dude sells the team.

MavsFanFinley
10-27-2005, 09:20 AM
I don't give two shits about Nash's fans, or Finley's fans. I don't give two shits about 2003 Mavs fans.

Golden State is my 2nd favorite team. Have been for the last 5 years or more. Mickael Pietrus is my 2nd favorite player. I don't root for them against the Mavs though.

I'd love to see Finley get his ring and will enjoy watching him with his new team for the next 3 seasons. I take joy in seeing how he plays with them and how Pop uses him compared to Nelson/AJ. I won't be debating anymore with those that don't even bother watching the games and then claim to know how he's used. As if another coach couldn't possibly get something better or different from a player. Or those that look at a stat and think it tells the whole story. I don't even root for the Spurs to beat the Mavs.

Hell, I have been watching the Kings this preseason and Francisco Garcia is quickly rising as another favorite player. Look out for that guy. I'm not rooting for them to beat the Mavs.

So maybe you better add GS, Pietrus, Kings and Garcia to your list that you don't give two shits about.

FilthyFinMavs
10-27-2005, 12:27 PM
Seems like a couple of Mavs fans are already sad to see Finley contributing to a contender. I thought the hate would come atleast at about midseason when the Spurs would have the best record in the league. I haven't seen Finley play myself so I can't comment on his play or how he is fitting in but i've heard good things about his defense from Spurs fans. And if he is a Dell Curry of the Spurs than that's fine. That's all the Spurs need him to be. If that's what it takes for them to win a championship then i'm sure Finley nor the Spurs really care how Fin's stats look at the end of a preseason game.

Nash13
10-27-2005, 03:19 PM
Will this issue ever die?

Dirkenstien
10-27-2005, 03:34 PM
And if he is a Dell Curry of the Spurs than that's fine. That's all the Spurs need him to be. If that's what it takes for them to win a championship then i'm sure Finley nor the Spurs really care how Fin's stats look at the end of a preseason game.

Odd how he is willing to do that for another team, yet when he was with the Mavs that just wasn't an option.

Also, you're getting ahead of yourself. The Spurs do not need Fin to be anything. They won a championship without him and would be just as much the favorite to win again if he were not there.

DelNegro
10-27-2005, 03:44 PM
Evidently being kicked to the curb by the franchise he gave so much to altered his priorities.

MrCheerios
10-27-2005, 03:53 PM
I haven't posted here that long, but I also see what Chumdawg does: that people worship Dirk and everyone else is just a placeholder for the next great roleplayer. The worship for him from mavs fans surpasses even that of the Heat fans' love for Wade.

If Dirk were cut with the amnesty, people would be calling for Cuban's head. The outrage would be without limits. But when we cut just little ol' Fin, who was a great teammate, the face of our franchise for years, a good friend and mentor to Dirk, and an all-around great guy, people just said, "So long and good riddance." People were actually glad that he was cut. To me, that's just wrong. He wanted to stay with the mavs, but the fans made him out to be some kind of evil person, a cancer that had to be cut from our team. And now that he's joined a franchise that actually appreciates it's players he's mocked and ridiculed. The same thing's happening with Don Nelson, the coach who took us to the WCF and might have won had Dirk not been injured. And I won't even bring up Nash.

I like the mavs and I want them to win, but the lack of appreciation and hatred of former players from the fanbase is a stain on the franchise, IMO. The people's sense of loyalty is just as short as Cuban's.

Dirkenstien
10-27-2005, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by: DelNegro
Evidently being kicked to the curb by the franchise he gave so much to altered his priorities.


If it wasn't his priority to do what's best for the team in the first place, then why would we want him here?

Don't forget that Cuban gave him a more than generous contract which exceeded $100-milionl not too long ago. That is a lot of money for a player drawing further and further away from his prime.

DevinHarriswillstart
10-27-2005, 04:00 PM
I have the NBA 06 game for PSP and it has Finley starting at the small forward spot over Bruce Bowen.

Dirkenstien
10-27-2005, 04:03 PM
If Dirk were cut with the amnesty, people would be calling for Cuban's head.

You're comparing an aging guard to a top five power forward in his prime? That argument is off base.

DelNegro
10-27-2005, 04:09 PM
If it wasn't his priority to do what's best for the team in the first place, then why would we want him here?

You wouldn't. And the Spurs are happy that you didn't.


Don't forget that Cuban gave him a more than generous contract which exceeded $100-milionl not too long ago. That is a lot of money for a player drawing further and further away from his prime.

The list of people Cuban has given a more than generous contract to is hardly an exclusive one.

MrCheerios
10-27-2005, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
You're comparing an aging guard to a top five power forward in his prime? That argument is off base.

No, I'm not. I hate to bring them up because they're almost obsessive, but Spurs fans loved Robinson even when he became a liability on both ends of the floor. They were extremely upset with the Rose/Mohammad trade, despite the fact that it brought them a young, 7ft center who was desperately needed in exchange for an overpaid, undersized, and aging PF that was not. Mohammad is good and they liked what he could bring, but they just hated losing a player. They appreciate all their former players, even Derek Anderson who had a childish spat with their management. The only person I see them not liking is Nesterovic, and they don't even bash him, they just admit that they don't need him. But they don't call him worthless, they don't call him a liability, and they don't want him cut.

Contrast their views toward Rasho with our views toward Finley, who was actually the backbone of our team for awhile, and you'll see why I call mavs fans unappreciative. We lost Fin for nothing and were glad for it. They lose bad players for good ones and are sad. See the difference? Even kings fans are more appreciative, and they're the biggest bandwagoners in the NBA. They still love Christie and Webber and those guys are way past their prime. Even though they were happy with the trades that got rid of those players kings fans have nothing but good to say about them. We're cut out of a different cloth.

Dirkenstien
10-27-2005, 04:38 PM
You wouldn't. And the Spurs are happy that you didn't.

No, the reason the Spurs are happy is because Finley decided he would now change his priorities after being let go. Pop informed him that he would be no more than a bench player with San Antonio and has been reported as initially doubting Finley's decision to do so.


The list of people Cuban has given a more than generous contract to is hardly an exclusive one.

That scarcely negates the fact that he was given one.

Dirkenstien
10-27-2005, 05:01 PM
No, I'm not.

Yes, Mr. Cheerios, you are.

And now your comparing Finley's tenure with the Mavericks to one of the greatest players to ever play the game in David Robinson.

Let's see... Robinson brought San Antonio two championships, won Rookie Of the Year, was named All NBA First-Team four times, was named All Defensive First-Team four times, was named Defensive Player of the Year in '02, was named NBA MVP in '95, was part of the 1992 US Olympic Dream Team, led the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and blocked shots three separate seasons, won the NBA Sportsmanship Award in 2001, and was a 10-time NBA All-Star.

Once again, the argument is off base.

DelNegro
10-27-2005, 05:18 PM
No, the reason the Spurs are happy is because Finley decided he would now change his priorities after being let go. Pop informed him that he would be no more than a bench player with San Antonio and has been reported as initially doubting Finley's decision to do so.

Okay, so the guy is looking to give as big a one fingered salute to Mark Cuban as he can by going to SA. Even if he did take a lesser role last year and did everything you had wanted y'all were going to cut him anyways. I know why he's bitter. I just find it surprising that so many of you are so quick to turn on the guy who defined your franchise for almost a decade.


That scarcely negates the fact that he was given one.

Which I think is a safe bet to say Mav fans were completely okay with at the time.

Bayliss
10-27-2005, 06:11 PM
So what is Finley doing different than Dell Curry did in Charlotte?

Well, Thank you for not answering the question.

MrCheerios
10-27-2005, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien

No, I'm not.

Yes, Mr. Cheerios, you are.

You know what? You're absolutely right. We were absolutely fair and just in cutting our former franchise player. I mean, what team wouldn't? If Reggie Miller hadn't retired, the I'm sure Pacers would have cut him anyway. And as fans, we shouldn't place any value on what a player's done for us in the past, but on what he can do in the here and now. If you didn't get any scoring titles or rings or any other accolades, you never meant anything to us. Again, just like Reggie Miller to Pacers fans. Boy, I bet they're glad his jumpshooting ass is outta there. If you're slightly over the hill, we'll just bash you all day and forget all your former contributions. And when you're forced to leave the team against your will, we'll still bash you all day long.

I can't wait to see what you say about Stack in two years. Or JET in seven. Or Dirk in ten. I guess there's no such thing as fan favorites anymore, only MVP candidates.

alby
10-27-2005, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
I have the NBA 06 game for PSP and it has Finley starting at the small forward spot over Bruce Bowen.

All I know, Michael Finley has been the most overrated player in history when it comes to video games the last 5 years.

Thespiralgoeson
10-28-2005, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by: MrCheerios
If Dirk were cut with the amnesty, people would be calling for Cuban's head. The outrage would be without limits.

Maybe, just MAYBE that's because Dirk is our best player, an MVP canidate, first team all-NBA, and we're going nowhere without him... If Michael Finley had been waived when he was at the top of his game, I imagine everyone else here would be pissed about it too.

Thespiralgoeson
10-28-2005, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by: madape
The current administration treated all those players like dirt. I'll be pulling for Nash and Finley to win a championship because they deserve it. Cuban doesn't deserve shit... except maybe a good embarassing ass kicking, which is what he'll get. I'll be back on the bandwagon when the dude sells the team.

Ape, if you're hatred of Cuban negates your desire to see the Mavericks win, I'd hardly consider you a Mavs fan at all. I've never liked Jerry Jones. I loved Jimmy Johnson, and IMO, Jerry treated him like shit. However, the fact that this man owns the Cowboys, never EVER caused me to take pleasure in seeing the Cowboys lose.

Besides, if this team does win a championship, I think you'll have to concede that Cuban deserves it, because it will have happened under his watch. I don't like Jerry Jones, but I can hardly say that he doesn't "deserve" the SuperBowl championships that the Cowboys won with him as the team's owner... Besides, if you're waiting for Cuban to sell the team, you might wanna just go ahead and become a full-time Spurs/Suns fan, because it ain't gonna happen.

chumdawg
10-28-2005, 01:06 AM
Lookit. Fans...are...the...life...BLOOD of a sports franchise. If they decide to defect in large margins, the franchise does suffer. So this idea that fans don't have a "vote," if you will, does not sit right with me.

I feel you on the Jimmy love. I loved him, too. But #1, Jerry didn't exactly treat him like shit. He gave him a high-profile job at a time when guys like him (college coaches) just didn't get high-profile jobs. He allowed him to run the franchise, for the most part. And when the Cowboys had success, make no mistake that Jimmy shared in it. He is still a relevant personality today because of those years. The Hurricanes years wouldn't have been enough, nor would have the Dolphins years.

When Jerry fired him, there was a backlash. A lot of the people who had come around to the Cowboys under Jones were upset about it. And yes, when Switzer won his championship, a lot of people felt he didn't deserve it.

But still and all, we are talking about two different things. Jones never sent Aikman to a contender over money, only to watch Aikman win the MVP in the next year. I'm sorry, but you can wrap that in whatever you want to wrap it in, but it is still the laughingstock that hangs on Cuban's neck.

But basketball differs from football in one very big way, which is that the individual players each have much more signifigance. When you jack with the personnel in basketball, it has very profound immediate impacts on your team. (Or weren't you watching, when a team on the brink of a title became an also-ran in the summer of '04?)

Sometimes sports fans in Dallas blow my mind. They loooooove to complain about an East Coast bias. As if their team isn't any less of a team because of where it's based. Well, you want to know something? If a New York or Philadelphia or Boston team had balked at paying an MVP pooint guard what he obviously was worth, then fans in those cities would have cried foul so loud you could hear it all the way down here.

But what do fans in Dallas do? They applaud the owner for his financial wherewithal.

Fans in Dallas get exactly what they deserve. Which is to say: owners that take advantage of their naivete, fellow fans who care more about the game presentation than about the game itself, and a media that dismisses them as second-tier.

And yet they act so wounded.

MrCheerios
10-28-2005, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien

No, I'm not.
And now your comparing Finley's tenure with the Mavericks to one of the greatest players to ever play the game in David Robinson.

BTW, it's very convenient of you to read the Robinson part of my post, which was supposed to be as an example of important players to a franchise and not a comparison of player talent, and then completely ignore the rest of the players I brought up. What about Malik Rose, Doug Christie, or Chris Webber? None of those guys are Robinson-level either. Does that stop fans of their old teams from loving them?

Do you know what most NBA fans think of Christie? Washed up and old. He went to the one of the king's rivals: Dallas. But do you know that most Kings fans still love him? They still want him to "come home." They write it in their signs. Dallas fans don't want former players to come home. We trash the memory of our former players. But you're making us out to be the most grateful fans in the NBA. We're not.

madape
10-28-2005, 08:03 AM
I'd classify myself not as a "former" mavs fan, but a "protesting" Mavs fan. I beleive that the powers that be in this franchise are doing their best to tear this team apart. I'm going to excersize my right to civil disobedience until the powers that be relenquish control to someone who will run it with some semblance of sanity. Incompetence combined with hubris is no way to acheive success.

Thespiralgoeson
10-28-2005, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by: chumdawg
Lookit. Fans...are...the...life...BLOOD of a sports franchise. If they decide to defect in large margins, the franchise does suffer. So this idea that fans don't have a "vote," if you will, does not sit right with me.

I feel you on the Jimmy love. I loved him, too. But #1, Jerry didn't exactly treat him like shit. He gave him a high-profile job at a time when guys like him (college coaches) just didn't get high-profile jobs. He allowed him to run the franchise, for the most part. And when the Cowboys had success, make no mistake that Jimmy shared in it. He is still a relevant personality today because of those years. The Hurricanes years wouldn't have been enough, nor would have the Dolphins years.

When Jerry fired him, there was a backlash. A lot of the people who had come around to the Cowboys under Jones were upset about it. And yes, when Switzer won his championship, a lot of people felt he didn't deserve it.

But still and all, we are talking about two different things. Jones never sent Aikman to a contender over money, only to watch Aikman win the MVP in the next year. I'm sorry, but you can wrap that in whatever you want to wrap it in, but it is still the laughingstock that hangs on Cuban's neck.

But basketball differs from football in one very big way, which is that the individual players each have much more signifigance. When you jack with the personnel in basketball, it has very profound immediate impacts on your team. (Or weren't you watching, when a team on the brink of a title became an also-ran in the summer of '04?)

Sometimes sports fans in Dallas blow my mind. They loooooove to complain about an East Coast bias. As if their team isn't any less of a team because of where it's based. Well, you want to know something? If a New York or Philadelphia or Boston team had balked at paying an MVP pooint guard what he obviously was worth, then fans in those cities would have cried foul so loud you could hear it all the way down here.

But what do fans in Dallas do? They applaud the owner for his financial wherewithal.

Fans in Dallas get exactly what they deserve. Which is to say: owners that take advantage of their naivete, fellow fans who care more about the game presentation than about the game itself, and a media that dismisses them as second-tier.

And yet they act so wounded.


Chum, you raise some good points in the Cuban/Jerry debate, but it really doesn't matter. However, it doesn't really matter, because now we're just starting a whole different topic. My original point was, I never liked Jerry Jones, but that never caused me to want the Cowboys to lose.... because I'm a Cowboys Fan. If one wishes to see the Mavericks lose because they don't like the teams owner, I can hardly consider that person a Mavs fan.

Edit: Btw, you say that Jerry didn't treat Jimmy like shit, and that's fair enough. But on the flipside, one could also argue that Cuban didn't Finley, Nash, Nellie, or anyone else like shit either. Actually, the only person I thought got kinda screwed over was Van Exel, but I thought that trade made sense at the time. Oh well.

Thespiralgoeson
10-28-2005, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by: madape
I'd classify myself not as a "former" mavs fan, but a "protesting" Mavs fan. I beleive that the powers that be in this franchise are doing their best to tear this team apart.

If Cuban his best to "tear this team apart," then he's certainly doing a very shitty job considering the fact that our franchise player is still here, and how much talent has come in these past two seasons. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn... not guys who would've been brought in, I think, if Cuban was trying to "tear the team apart." You may hate Erick Dampier, but he was essential to this team's success last year (and yes, as well as its shortcomings in the playoffs, but there's plenty of blame to go around.) All of your hate is made that much more irrational by the fact that we had the second best regular season record in franchise history last year.

And you say we'll finish out of the playoffs this year? Behind the Lakers and Warriors you say? Didn't you say we'd finish 42-40 last year? i/expressions/anim_roller.gif

FilthyFinMavs
10-28-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by: Dirkenstien

And if he is a Dell Curry of the Spurs than that's fine. That's all the Spurs need him to be. If that's what it takes for them to win a championship then i'm sure Finley nor the Spurs really care how Fin's stats look at the end of a preseason game.

Odd how he is willing to do that for another team, yet when he was with the Mavs that just wasn't an option.

Also, you're getting ahead of yourself. The Spurs do not need Fin to be anything. They won a championship without him and would be just as much the favorite to win again if he were not there.


What makes you think FInley wouldn't do that for the Mavs? I hope your head isn't full of the bs people posted on this site about Finley because it was all untrue. Besides, Finley was released due to the amnesty clause according to Mark Cuban. Not his play.

And how am I getting ahead of myself? Spurs need Finley to fill a role and be successful in that role. You think the Spurs can just stand pact while other teams around the league get better? I don't think so. Teams have improved and the Spurs need to do the same.

FilthyFinMavs
10-28-2005, 11:37 AM
If Cuban his best to "tear this team apart," then he's certainly doing a very shitty job considering the fact that our franchise player is still here, and how much talent has come in these past two seasons. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn... not guys who would've been brought in, I think, if Cuban was trying to "tear the team apart." You may hate Erick Dampier, but he was essential to this team's success last year (and yes, as well as its shortcomings in the playoffs, but there's plenty of blame to go around.) All of your hate is made that much more irrational by the fact that we had the second best regular season record in franchise history last year.


The way our franchise is being ran Keith Van Horn, JET and Stackhouse will all be gone for nothin' in the next 2 years.

madape
10-28-2005, 12:08 PM
Yeah... and don't get too attatched to Dirk either. He's already promised to "explore his free agent options" when his contract expires. Hell, I would too. If he doesn't leave on his own accord, he'll probably be traded to the Warriors, Clipprers, or some other God forsaken hellhole. It's happened to everyone else on this team. Nash and Finley are the lucky ones. They left before Cubes could trade them and were able to choose their own destinations. If Dirk's smart, he would do the same. Do you really wonder why Finley claimed that every Maverick is currently trying to "Get the hell out of Dodge"?

DirkGoesNuclear
10-29-2005, 01:37 AM
[q.....Finley was released due to the amnesty clause according to Mark Cuban. Not his play.
q]

If Finley had played like Ray Allen did last season, he would still be in a Mav's uni.

Five-ofan
10-29-2005, 02:16 AM
Nash wasnt "clearly worth what he got paid" when he got that contract. As I recall there was a bunch of head scratching over what the suns were thinking. He turned out to be worth it for one year so far. The question was never would he be worth it last year or this year but going forward. He has never had an mvp level season in his career. Fin wasnt worth what he was getting paid and yes you do have to forget past contributions. That is just the way it is. Fin was a slightly lesser version of Mitch Richmond. He ended his career on the lakers to get a ring that he had nothing to do with. Fin has more left than Richmond did when he signed with the lakers but its a similar situation.

As a fan it sucks because I was a HUGE Nash fan and am actually happy he won the mvp because they just refuse to give it to Dirk. I am also a big Fin fan. I dont see how anyone who was a mavs fan in the dark days could not have a soft spot for him. He does not need to be mentioned in the same sentence as Drob or Dirk though. The reason spurs fans are less bitter is that they have less to be bitter about. They are one of the luckiest franchise in the nba. Lets get the first pick and draft a franchise big. Ok lets do it again while we still have the last one. The only luckier team was Houston with Akeem and sampson but Sampson getting hurt defeats that luck. Good lord they would have been incredible if he hadnt. Brings up an interesting idea. I dont think the bad boys would have ever won a title if he hadnt. That would have prevented the crappy basketball that followed them. Though really that type of basketball was empowered by Rileys Knicks. It was iniated by the bad boys. Better question. Would Jordans Bulls have beaten them? I think Jordan had 2 or 3 rings with Hakeem having 6 or 8 if Sampson never gets hurt. Just interesting idea. I know thats way off topic but its 213. Oh well.

stuportremens
10-29-2005, 05:20 AM
^^ It's stupid to think that only MVP-type players are worth Nash's contract.
Look around and you'll see lots of players that are worse than Nash earning the same or more money.

If you only look at the contracts Cuban signed, I think it's pretty obvious that both Raef and Damp have both gotten contracts of a similar caliber and neither is anywhere the player nash is. And Nash clearly wasn't much worse than Finley (I happen think he was the better player in the last 4 years or so), so trying to go cheap on Nash and offering him much less money than either Fin or Raef (and just a little later Dampier) got was out of proportion. And in hindsight it was one of the more stupid decisions that NBA owners have made.

Oh, and cutting Fin might have benefitted Cuban's pockets, but I doubt that it helps the Mavs very much. We'll see what happens when Dirk's current contract is up.

Murphy3
10-29-2005, 10:22 AM
Finley still plays? I thought he retired?

Five-ofan
10-29-2005, 11:59 AM
There are worse players than nash that make more and he is worth what he is getting right now. That wasnt the question. The question was would he be worth it in 2 years? I doubt he will. I just said that it wasnt clearly known that he was worth what he got. I can find some articles stating as much if you wish.

alby
10-29-2005, 12:01 PM
Raef and Dampier are centers. If you understand the structure of the NBA, you would realize that centers are at a much higher premium and thus cost more to buy.

Dirkenstien
10-29-2005, 04:28 PM
What makes you think FInley wouldn't do that for the Mavs?

Probably the fact that he never did it for the Mavs.


And as fans, we shouldn't place any value on what a player's done for us in the past, but on what he can do in the here and now.
No one is saying they are not thankful for what Finley had done for this franchise in the past, rather, there comes a point when you suck up your pride and do what's best for the team. Finley could not do that and was not living up to his contract.


They were extremely upset with the Rose/Mohammad trade, despite the fact that it brought them a young, 7ft center who was desperately needed in exchange for an overpaid, undersized, and aging PF that was not.

Surely you haven't forgotten the fact that Rose was the designated "garbage man" for the San Antonio Spurs for over four seasons and through two NBA championships ('99 and '03). Any time fans see a piece of a team that won the championship/s for their city leave then a part of them is inclined to feel upset.

And as to the argument about Webber and Christie; the fans in Sac town are simply trying to hold on to the past when they were actually a pretty good team. Can you blame them for wanting that type of environment back?

Thespiralgoeson
10-30-2005, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

If Cuban his best to "tear this team apart," then he's certainly doing a very shitty job considering the fact that our franchise player is still here, and how much talent has come in these past two seasons. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn... not guys who would've been brought in, I think, if Cuban was trying to "tear the team apart." You may hate Erick Dampier, but he was essential to this team's success last year (and yes, as well as its shortcomings in the playoffs, but there's plenty of blame to go around.) All of your hate is made that much more irrational by the fact that we had the second best regular season record in franchise history last year.


The way our franchise is being ran Keith Van Horn, JET and Stackhouse will all be gone for nothin' in the next 2 years.

Actually, if you're going by Cuban's record... KVH, Jet, and Stack will all walk in free agency, but with the money the team saves, we'll sign quality players to replace them, and the team will actually get better for it. So even though they walk, you could hardly call them "gone for nothin" i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

stuportremens
10-31-2005, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

If Cuban his best to "tear this team apart," then he's certainly doing a very shitty job considering the fact that our franchise player is still here, and how much talent has come in these past two seasons. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn... not guys who would've been brought in, I think, if Cuban was trying to "tear the team apart." You may hate Erick Dampier, but he was essential to this team's success last year (and yes, as well as its shortcomings in the playoffs, but there's plenty of blame to go around.) All of your hate is made that much more irrational by the fact that we had the second best regular season record in franchise history last year.


The way our franchise is being ran Keith Van Horn, JET and Stackhouse will all be gone for nothin' in the next 2 years.

Actually, if you're going by Cuban's record... KVH, Jet, and Stack will all walk in free agency, but with the money the team saves, we'll sign quality players to replace them, and the team will actually get better for it. So even though they walk, you could hardly call them "gone for nothin" i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif


Unfortunately, this team hardly has a history of great free agent signings and considering how frequently this team trades players they don't like I don't think we'll have an easy time convincing top free agents to sign here.

Thespiralgoeson
10-31-2005, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by: stuportremens

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

If Cuban his best to "tear this team apart," then he's certainly doing a very shitty job considering the fact that our franchise player is still here, and how much talent has come in these past two seasons. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn... not guys who would've been brought in, I think, if Cuban was trying to "tear the team apart." You may hate Erick Dampier, but he was essential to this team's success last year (and yes, as well as its shortcomings in the playoffs, but there's plenty of blame to go around.) All of your hate is made that much more irrational by the fact that we had the second best regular season record in franchise history last year.


The way our franchise is being ran Keith Van Horn, JET and Stackhouse will all be gone for nothin' in the next 2 years.

Actually, if you're going by Cuban's record... KVH, Jet, and Stack will all walk in free agency, but with the money the team saves, we'll sign quality players to replace them, and the team will actually get better for it. So even though they walk, you could hardly call them "gone for nothin" i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif


Unfortunately, this team hardly has a history of great free agent signings and considering how frequently this team trades players they don't like I don't think we'll have an easy time convincing top free agents to sign here.

i/expressions/anim_roller.gif I'm sick and tired of hearing this bullshit about how the reason we've had bad luck with free agents is because of some kind of fear the players have of being traded. That's ridiculous. The only reason we've missed out on free agents is because we're painfully over the cap. And really, who are the free agents we missed out on anyway? Zo? Olowakandi? Nesterovic? Malone? Stephen Hunter? The only relavent name that comes to mind is Brad Miller, whom we never aggressively pursued anyway.

FilthyFinMavs
11-01-2005, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

If Cuban his best to "tear this team apart," then he's certainly doing a very shitty job considering the fact that our franchise player is still here, and how much talent has come in these past two seasons. Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn... not guys who would've been brought in, I think, if Cuban was trying to "tear the team apart." You may hate Erick Dampier, but he was essential to this team's success last year (and yes, as well as its shortcomings in the playoffs, but there's plenty of blame to go around.) All of your hate is made that much more irrational by the fact that we had the second best regular season record in franchise history last year.


The way our franchise is being ran Keith Van Horn, JET and Stackhouse will all be gone for nothin' in the next 2 years.

Actually, if you're going by Cuban's record... KVH, Jet, and Stack will all walk in free agency, but with the money the team saves, we'll sign quality players to replace them, and the team will actually get better for it. So even though they walk, you could hardly call them "gone for nothin" i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif



Really? You mind telling me what Cuban track record you are referring to because as of right now I can't think of the Mavs signing any key free agents in free agency. Not to mention by the time KVH, JET and Stack's contracts are finished we will have to resign potential all stars Josh Howard and Devin Harris.

FilthyFinMavs
11-01-2005, 11:57 AM
I'm sick and tired of hearing this bullshit about how the reason we've had bad luck with free agents is because of some kind of fear the players have of being traded. That's ridiculous. The only reason we've missed out on free agents is because we're painfully over the cap. And really, who are the free agents we missed out on anyway? Zo? Olowakandi? Nesterovic? Malone? Stephen Hunter? The only relavent name that comes to mind is Brad Miller, whom we never aggressively pursued anyway.


That's what makes it worse. We can't even obtain players the caliber of Kandi man or guys who are on their way out of the door like Zo and Malone.

Bayliss
11-01-2005, 07:03 PM
I recall signing Diop, and Christie.

Thespiralgoeson
11-01-2005, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

I'm sick and tired of hearing this bullshit about how the reason we've had bad luck with free agents is because of some kind of fear the players have of being traded. That's ridiculous. The only reason we've missed out on free agents is because we're painfully over the cap. And really, who are the free agents we missed out on anyway? Zo? Olowakandi? Nesterovic? Malone? Stephen Hunter? The only relavent name that comes to mind is Brad Miller, whom we never aggressively pursued anyway.


That's what makes it worse. We can't even obtain players the caliber of Kandi man or guys who are on their way out of the door like Zo and Malone.

We never aggressively pursued Kandi or Malone, and Zo committed to us, but bailed because he wanted to go easier on his body by playing in the east. None of this had anything to do with players being afraid to come to Dallas because of "loyalty".


Really? You mind telling me what Cuban track record you are referring to because as of right now I can't think of the Mavs signing any key free agents in free agency. Not to mention by the time KVH, JET and Stack's contracts are finished we will have to resign potential all stars Josh Howard and Devin Harris

I said they would be replaced, I never said anything about them being replaced through free agent signings. So let's see, the record:

Nash leaves, we trade for Jet. Need a backup point and a swingman, we trade for draft rights to Devin and Stack, need someone to spell Dirk... trade for KVH. Need a center, aquire Damp via sign-and-trade. Finley's waived, we pick up Christie. Shawn retires, we pick up Diop. Pretty solid record going by this past season IMO.

FilthyFinMavs
11-01-2005, 08:46 PM
So if we get rid of Stack, KVH and JET then who would we trade to their spots? We'd have no trade assets unless you want to get rid of our younger players like Josh and Harris.

Thespiralgoeson
11-02-2005, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
So if we get rid of Stack, KVH and JET then who would we trade to their spots? We'd have no trade assets unless you want to get rid of our younger players like Josh and Harris.

Hey, I never said I knew how it would work out... just that it would. And I think you took my original post a little too seriously. I was half-joking really, hence the "i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"